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Comments
you may be right about this. i just have a hunch it will eventually be available in the gls model. i'm thinking a year from now. maybe vw will realize that $27,800 is a tad too much to pay for a jetta. i'm leaving my "dreamworld" now and going to work.
"[The GLI] will be priced at $22,950."
That's from VWvortex.com's wrapup of the LA autoshow. That pretty much matches the sticker I saw on the GLI there. Check out http://www.edmunds.com/news/autoshows/articles/48582/page013.html for more info on the GLI.
Justin,
I knew about the beam axle but I didn't realize when test driving the car (about 5 test drives total of WEs and 4 of VR6 GLX/GLS's) that I was pushing the car to the limit taking a 270 degree on-ramp at only 45. Had I known that leisurely driving the car was pushing it to the car's absolute outer-limits, I wouldn't have made the purchase. But of course, at that time I was reluctant to make salesman shriek in terror. Now, I don't care how I scare them, they're useless anyway so I no longer mind if it makes them jittery that I'm taking an on-ramp at 60. My mistake and I'm paying close to $400 a month for it.
I'm a big VW fan, and will purchase a GTI within a couple weeks. Trying to decide on another 1.8T
or going with the 12V VR6. Anyone driven both that can give me advice here?
The 1.8T motor has better reliability than the 2.8L V6 in the VR6 model.
the Golf GTI is best enjoyed with the 1.8T all the way!.
Amen!
Good luck on your purchase
I know my 150HP 1.8T is a blast to drive, and I'm sure another 30HP wouldn't hurt. The 1.8T is snappier and as long as the revs are up, it pulls really well. I guess there's no reason other than smoothness to pay more for the VR6. The 1.8T is more tuneable, lighter, better mpg, and less expensive.
Cheers!
Love my Jetta anyway!
Since I'm trading in a 2000 Civic EX, (off lease) which car in your opinion is more bang for the buck? I have two kids 3yrs and an infant. Both trunks seem cavernous compared to the Civic. I'm not so sure of the interior space of the Jetta. Civic are SMALL when you put in a wife and two kids in car seats.
So...a stripped Passat or a "sort of " loaded Jetta? Vr6(Jetta) or 1.8t(Passat)? Would I miss a lot in stripped Passat as my Civic had the sunroof, CD, etc.?
Turner, see my response to your questions on the Passat sedans board.
Is there something wrong with the Jetta 1.8T? I suppose if you're looking for the climatronic goodies on the GLX you wouldn't want the 1.8T, but since you're already looking at the Passat 1.8T I can't assume you have a problem with the engine.
Anyway, I was just wondering. You could load up a Jetta 1.8T for less than either the Passat or VR6 Jetta.
Vetti, I have a 1.8T and the gearing on it is all jacked up. At reasonable freeway speeds (80 or so) the car is turning really high, buzzy RPMs. It makes the 100 mile drive to LA insufferable. VW doesn't gear 5th as overdrive and it shows in the car's horrible gas mileage (25 mpg with cruise set at only 80). My old 91 Stanza doing an average of 85 pulls 30 mpg and that's a manual with the 2.4 L 140 HP engine. Obviously VW doesn't choose decent gear ratios for their manuals. Maybe the 6 speeds will rectify the situation.
Also, I don't think the trunk is too small for a family in the Jetta. The back seat definitely is though. I should have gotten the Passat I think, because I didn't think I would need back seat room. But the Jetta has like none.
1)Short on shoulder room and head room in the back. This translates into almost Zero middle passenger room.
2)Short on legroom in the back.
Actually, the Jetta wagon somewhat minimizes the headroom issue for back pasengers due to the taller and squared off roof.
The rear bench is actually pretty comfy and more so than in the bigger Passat which is hard as a park bench like regardless of seat cover material.
If you still want a Jetta and think of using it for family hauling, you are much better off getting the wagon version.
Also try to fit a stroller in the smallish trunk of the sedan...not fun.
I think the Golf headlights are a little too small and squinty. Like the car is saying "beep beep, please move out of my way". The big square Jetta headlights say "I will move you out of the way"
The Passat is obviously the "family car" of VW's line-up. I don't think VW pretends that the Jetta is meant for big family duty. For younger kids/infants, yes, but for teens, probably not.
I had my car in third gear last night riding at 6k rpms for about 60 seconds. It was fun. I came off an exit ramp and never took my foot off the gas pedal. The car (base suspension here) just digs in, leans over a lot, but stays planted and begs for more. It is FUN! I actually kind of think more fun than the BMW 325Ci with sport suspension and 17" wheels, because the BMW does not lean at all. It is like you don't get to "feel" like you are driving it. The Jetta lets you know that you ARE driving hard, but that it will take care of you, it is just a little more vocal about it
The Jetta will be more fun to drive, and easier to maneuver & park, but the Passat will actually get better mileage and be safer (physics at work with the larger car).
Plus, the Passat tends to have less little stuff go wrong compared to the Jetta. Don't know if it's the fact that it's assembled in Germany instead of Mexico, or what, but it's true the Passat is put together a little better. A stripped Passat in the $23k range is the ultimate family sedan.
My dad is soon dumping his '00 Taurus for a new V6 Passat. My love for VWs has rubbed off on him, I think the clincher was the violet dash lighting... :O
Not many cars are better assembled than VW's, both Jetta and Passat alike. But they each have their own problems too. As with every car, regardless of the race or origen of the people that assemble them.
But yes, the Passat is totally the better pick for a larger family.
4k RPM is very buzzy in a 1.8T, IMHO. Maybe you have bad hearing.
I am sure the next generation Golf/Jetta V will correct this issue.
Oh wait, Justin (a.k.a Captain VW) will get offended when pointing out the weakness of this car.
The Passat in the scheme of things is better than the Jetta, my friend.
your insults - what exactly are you trying to accomplish with them?
Try telling someone that doesn't want a big car that the Passat is better. Your arguments don't hold up, and someones preference can't be right or wrong. I mean, you drive an IMPALA!!! What does that say???
Please explain that weakness of the Jetta with regard to the suspension. I can't wait to hear it. Don't worry - Captain VW won't get offended
"I mean, you drive an IMPALA!!! What does that say???"
It says that you are a pretty rude poster that lacks manners and debate skills.
Another thing. Just because Teo has an Impala, does that make his opinon any less valuable.
You know, I really miss the time when this furum wasn't such a peeing contest. Stuff like this just makes me wanna never visit it again.
Also, my 1.8T is not buzzy at 4000rpm. Not as much as my Protege was anyway. And quieter than most other cars I have driven.
I am one of the few people here that want to make this forum a positive experience for Jetta owners and potential Jetta buyers. People in here whine and complain so much, and can't seem to accept that other people, including me, have GOOD experiences. You guys just can't let that happen. Why? Look at other boards - people talking peacefully about their cars. The same four or five people sit in here and complain. They don't offer any real advice, just extremely generalized opinions, with little pseudo-insults thrown in for good measure.
Take the whining and crying to the JETTA PROBLEMS board. That is what it is there for. Then, everyone that has a Jetta, but wishes they didn't, but still keeps the car, can have little hate-fests till the cows come home, or until their Jettas get stolen
I wonder if VW realizes that their cars incite so much emotion!
A car with a good suspension does not lean when cornering. Body roll hinders performance. Your car when taking a corner should NOT lean. If it does, then the weight is shifting, thus your car's chances of loosing traction increases. A good car remains rock-steady flat in hard cornering. Heck, BMW and MB are designing active suspensions in their showcase cars that actively counter-act body roll, keeping the car's weight over all four wheels.
As for the loudness, one of the car mags measures decibel levels at varying speeds. I'd be interested in reading what stratospheric level the Jetta rings in at when going normal freeway speeds (80 or so).
Regarding the supposed insults, I'm insulting you by saying the Jetta's beam axle is an arcane design that seriously hinders the car's performance? How does that reflect upon you? You are NOT your car. And I questioned your hearing considering you think the 1.8T is not a loud engine at freeway speeds. I never wrote that you do have bad hearing.
I will never back down from an assertion that people who buy automatics are sacrificing performance and engine control for laziness. Moan all you want, when it gets down to it, laziness or that of a spouse led to the purchase of an automatic. All arguments that "I drive in rush hour and don't want to work a clutch" or "my wife can't drive stick" reflect upon some member of the buying party being lazy.
By the way, "[the forum] should be a positive place"? What? It's a forum and contrary to your 1984-ish view, a forum is a venue for open discussion of a topic. This isn't the Jetta - We Love It forum. This is a general purpose Jetta forum where owners, enthusiasts and prospective owners congregate to discuss VW's MK IV. There exist no rules that state every poster must be curious about the VW or only post love-filled messages pertaining to VW's sedan version of the Golf. People ask questions, post opinions and post experiences in a forum, thus giving readers an opportunity to ingest information and decide for themselves what is and is not pertinent or useful. If you only desire a forum with rabid VW lovers, please create such a discussion. I'm sure it'll be a happy, Stepford Wives kinda environment.
What is wrong with having the forum be a place where people can be happy with their cars without being told they are stupid because they bought a car that has a out-dated suspension. I guess I am a dreamer after all.
You are more than entitled to say that someone is lazy because they drive an automatic. But that is just a stereotype, a generalization. You stick to those types of statements, and it speaks to your level of human understanding, or lack of it.
And, a car that leans a little, is FUN! Sure, performance wise, it might not be as great as a BMW. But hello, it is a VW. VW's are not performance cars. They just happen to beat performance cars in everyday life sometimes. Not to mention, skidpad numbers vary from mag to mag, but a car that leans, can stick just as well as a car that doesn't. FACT. A little leaning might make the inexperienced driver a little nervous, sure, but someone that knows how to drive, can drive anything fast and safely.
Seriously Blue, wouldn't you be happier if you traded your Jetta in? Yes, you might lose a little money, but isn't your sanity and happiness worth it? Get the car you want. But be careful....TEST DRIVE....and change your user name for when you start posting complaints about the new car
So tell me why you bought an automatic Jetta and be sure to give me a response that doesn't involve some measure of you/your spouse avoding putting forth a level of effort required by a manual.
<<little leaning might make the inexperienced driver a little nervous, sure, but someone that knows how to drive, can drive anything fast and safely. >>
It's not about fear. It's physics. When a car leans, its weight shifts. Do you think the BMW 7 series new active suspension negates body-roll so as not to frighten drivers? No! It's on the car to allow the 7 series to behave in a fashion that makes it, as Edmunds claims, feel like a 3 series. Less body-roll means the weight stays more evenly distributed over all four wheels. When a FWD car like a Jetta gets excessive body-roll on a corner you get more pronounced understeer and less traction.
Ever seen photos of GTIs/Jettas autocrossing with the back wheel off the ground? That's a result of the solid beam axle and the car's excessively soft suspension. Thicker swaybars, a lower center of gravity and a tighter suspension can all help to negate some of that. Eventually, physics wins out.
Yes, a car with excessive body-lean can outperform others. Look at a base MB. Then see the results of AMG tuning. Suddenly a decent-handling rolly-polly luxury cruiser is putting up performance car numbers on the skidpad.
I never wrote that you were stupid and certainly would never make such an assertion in regard to your suspension. Hello, I bought the 1.8T, so insulting your intelligence for your purchase would be foolhardy as I'd be attacking myself.
<<Seriously Blue, wouldn't you be happier if you traded your Jetta in? Yes, you might lose a little money, but isn't your sanity and happiness worth it? Get the car you want. >>
And get what? The WRX is fun but it feels flimsy and the interior's trash. The IS300 feels numb and the engine lackluster. The 330i is over-priced. What does that leave? RSX is a Civic with a nasty VTEC engine and horrible ergonomics. CL/TL feel cheap and have the body-styling of a slab of beef. Sentra's cheap. Altima's got a cheap interior. Maxima has another solid beam axle. Celica is a joke, flat out. Camcord, lol. Won't drive an American car as they're all wretched. A4 entertains but that's going from one dismal VW to another. C230 is ugly and feels cheap inside. Mitsu? Please. Jag X-type is okay but not worth 35k. I've test driven almost every car under the sun. The Jetta came out the winner in June and still wins within my price range - sure an M3 or M5 would be great but I've got other things to buy.
For now, while I'm shopping for a house, I'll sit on the Jetta and hopefully in September when the manual 6 speed G35 comes out, I can replace my Jetta.
Oh, and I can assure you, no matter what car I get, I will not blindly love it. No car is without faults.
I assure you it makes a big difference.
The Jetta is not a sports car. It is not going to ride like a skateboard or a $40000 BMW. I know you're going to insist that the car *should* handle better, but that's only according to you and me. Most Americans like a Buick-style ride.
You can thank your fellow Americans for the softness of the suspension. Most Americans want a suspension that soaks up everything and is soft like an overstuffed couch. I, like you, prefer a firm suspension.
I bought a Neuspeed 25mm sway bar online and got it installed for less than $200 total. It doesn't kill the float over bumps, but the car corners worlds better. I think you would probably be happier with a 28mm rear sway on the firmest setting, and a 25mm front sway. That would get it darn flat, the way you like it.
Look into it. You'll thank yourself.
All this complaining about VW doesn't achieve anything. They have set up the car according to the majority of American preferences, which doesn't include you and me. So we gotta fend for ourselves.
Peace.
since you asked: the reason i buy an automatic is easy. it is easier to deal with in DC traffic. especially for me since i had my left achilles tendon operated on (basically re-attached) two winters ago after a stupid move in the snow. everything works fine now, but I am not taking any chances by sitting in traffic. doesn't make me lazy. makes me SMART.
as far as the suspension, it is not too soft in my opinion. but, i came from a 2001 Civic. so, this car is pure smoothness and luxury to me.
i hope your G35 arrives soon.
Read that as smart, to me it reads that you'll trade fun for convenience. Or rather, you'd prefer not to put forth the effort in DC traffic. Sounds like a word that starts with an L to me.
As for your sports car thing, you're the guy who posted how great it was to feel the Jetta lean during a trip down a freeway ramp. I merely countered that a good car shouldn't lean.
Anakin, I was busy with finals. househunting and work last year when vortex had that great group buy. I'm keeping my eyes open. I've read swaybars make a huge difference on the Jetta.
i don't think you are a mean person, for the record.
i am considering the sport suspension spring set-up when i get my 5k service done. apparently, it makes the "nose-dive" a little less noticable. i don't mind the "lean", but when i brake hard it gets annoying sometimes. i will let everyone know what i decide to do.
There is no need to get into the personal digs that are going on here. We all are entitled to our own opinions and our own preferences.
It would be a very good thing if some of you would just take a deep breath and not take everything so seriously.
I think we can find a way to believe in our own values and opinions without having to either defend them in a hostile manner, or attack others because they may see things differently. Let's give it a try, okay?
Thanks.
Pat
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By the way, nothing I write on this board is anonymous. My site (www.blue-guy.com), my location and my name are all readily available. I'll gladly admit in public to anything I've written here. I don't hide behind the Internet. If anything I censor myself so as not to awaken the ire of the board's host.