Volkswagen Jetta 2005 and earlier

blueguydotcom

If you like the feel of VW's, check out the Passat. It's a really nice car and it's made in Germany (instead of that other place where Jettas come from). Its quality has improved drastically and many mags suggest the Passat as the best mid-size out there.

If interior fit and finish is not your bag but you want fun with your family car, then the Altima is the ultimate choice. The 3.5 SE can be had for near invoice now and it runs rings around the Accord and Camry. The VQ engine is above reproach and the Altima's suspension is top notch. A really great car, with a very bland interior. But SUPER roomy inside.

elmoblatch1

Thanks for your post.

The Passat is overpriced in my opinion. The car is not that much bigger than a Jetta, based on the spec sheet. I cannot justify spending $4,000 more for a car that is a little bigger than a Jetta.

claywaterfill

It is a real nice car--but not cheap, that's for sure. The Accord is a mid size, so it is bigger than the Jetta. Should be plenty big for your two kids--plus this is the last year of this design, so you may get a good deal on one this summer. Good luck to you!

blueguydotcom

Get in one.

I'm not sure how those interior ratings came about, but I think it has something to do with the front seats' movement.

The Passat is much bigger inside than a Jetta with far more usuable space. By the way, are you sure the price gap is that large? I just looked at a 1.8T tiptronic, leather/lux package Passat for a touch over 24k the other day. A leather, tiptronic, lux 1.8T I think goes for about 21.5 at invoice. 2.5k for a bigger, better built, more reliable car?

Otherwise, consider the Altima. It's leap beyond the Accord in terms of performance and interior space.

blackjetta18t1

the passat is defiantley bigger inside compared to a Jetta, Very spacious....smooth ride, large trunk, handles well, excellent package all around...

mlayton694

If it only takes an extra 4 inches to make normal size people fit in the backseat, it is worth the extra few grand , and ... the cupholders of course !!!

elmoblatch1

Thanks for the posts.

My sister bought a Passat last year, at the end of the season. I don't want a turbo & the V-6 is way out of my price range.

I will keep an eye on the passat market.

blueguydotcom

What Jetta were you looking at? The VR6, I take it?

vocus

I got a JD Power survery in the mail the other day, with a crisp $1 inside as well. They asked all sorts of questions about my new car. I told them I liked it alot (which I do), except for those darn rattles.

Akang: You traded your car in 8 months with 20K on it? I know it was a 1.8T stick (I remember reading your posts back then). How much did you lose on it? Just curious...

akangl

I got $16,500 for it which surprised the heck out of me. It had a pretty nasty dent above the rear bumper just below the gas tank door....thanks to the dealer. It also had a broken windshield and 2 deep scratches. I know it was $16,500 real money because they were selling me the Jeep that I bought for $500 over what they paid for it. They started at $14,500 and I laughed at them, I had already gotten a $16,700 real money offer at the Ford dealer. Anyway, my Jetta had an msrp of $19,850 or something like that, so not too bad. They still have the Jetta sitting on their lot 3 months later.

We also traded in my hubby's pos gmc 17 days later at the same dealer, they put $13,700 into it (which I thought was totally nuts). My saleslady told me they put the truck on the lift a few days after they took it in on trade and about had a heart attack, they wholesaled it fast!!

eludwig

When I bought my '00 Accord, I also test drove the Passat. My +perception+ was that the Passat had more front and rear interior room (I'm 6'3") but I never looked at the specs.

Also, my Accord EX 5-speed was barely $20k, compared to Passat 1.8T 5-speeds at my local dealer at $24k+ (there were none without every option).

Good luck!

eludwig

I'm new to this board, as I'm newly bored with my Accord. Repeat 10x ; )

Anyhow, I'm interested in people's repair costs on the current Jettas, common problems (in adddition to the need for adding oil, power window motor failures, brake wear, and interior rattles), and comments on the manual transmission's performance.

I understand the benefits of the Jetta 1.8T (fun to drive, German steering, great interior) but want to understand the costs associated with them.

Thanks.

eludwig

When will an all-new body style for the Golf and Jetta come to the US (month & date, if possible)? Thanks!

vwguild

Style changes will occur at 3:00PM (GMT)Sunday
the 24th of June 2004 or 2005...:)

eludwig

protege_fan

My girlfriend's cousins just got a brand new 2002 Jetta. Nice car...they went all out and got leather interior, etc., etc. Spoiled as they are (the one cousin just turned 16), they have had the car less than a week and they already have electrical problems. I wasn't there, so I'm not sure if it's the 2.0 or the 1.8T, but my g/f thought that it was the 1.8T.

Apparently, the car will suddenly stall and then will not turn over at all. This is not just when the cousins are driving; this is happening to her Uncle as well (he is an experienced manual driver). Has anybody else experience something similar?

It's too bad this happened...The Uncle was looking for the safest car out there that he could for his daughters, and I think he was looking in the right direction at the VWs. Not many cars in that price range here in Canada come with side curtain air bags, which the Jetta did (and the Golf and Beetle as well). That was a major plus over the Civic. However, I've long heard of Jetta electrical problems, especially with the newer style ones.

At least my g/f's '91 Jetta GL is still cruising along nicely. Back to zoom zooming for me.

Anakin

My '02 1.8T has been great. I have a little over 6000 miles since the end of September. No problems at all (unless you count the lint on the velour)

The Turbo is a lot of fun because I get to watch people zoom zooming in my rear view mirror.

protege_fan

I guess if you're going in a straight line sure...I'll see you on some twisties... though only for a short while before I passed at least

Anakin

People who own slow cars like to play the "twisties" card.

Maybe Mazda should use "twisties twisties" instead of "zoom zoom."

vwguild

See Post #3587...

protege_fan

This has got to be one of the most unfriendly forums at Edmunds...

newcar31

That's true, people with slow cars that handle well do play the twisties card. People with quick cars that handle poorly play the quick card. The Protege does handle very well though. The Jetta doesn't handle very well even with the sport suspension. The Protege will have a turbo soon that will take care of the power deficit so I wouldn't be so cocky if I were you.

blueguydotcom

I guess the big difference is, one can make a $200 mod to get a Jetta to handle well, while short of spending thousands, you can't make a Protege faster.

Handling can usually be fixed on the cheap. Speed on the other hand comes with a heavy premium.

BTW, we're not discussing "future" or vaporware cars. When the Protege has a turbo it'll be different but for now...it's just a great handling, excessively slow little car.

vocus

Sorry, but been there and done that. Protege is nice for an economy car. Feels cheap somewhat on the inside and when slamming the doors. Stereo sucks big time. Handles really well though.

Jetta handles well, holds on longer to a corner (with the sport suspension and 17" tires anyway) than the Protege does (I know, owned a Protege and have a Jetta now). But the Protege's engine is crap. Has good power only between 3500-5000 rpm, noisy as all heck too. Sounds unrefined.

So I would rate the Protege as a great-handling car with no power. The Jetta as a more refined (but yes, more expensive) alternative that handles just as well but will beat the crap out of the Protege (even in 2.0 form, it has more power).

vocus

Darn, for once I actually agree with you on something. It feels strange.. Just kidding..

Anakin

I'm relatively new to the Jetta forum, but I've noticed that protege owners like to pop in here from time to time and make negative comments about the Jetta.

I wonder how warm a response I would receive if I posted a negative anecdote in the protege forum and then said something about "Drivers Wanted" or some such.

In any case, what's the deal with the Jetta vs Protege anyhow? I don't see these two cars as competitors, really.

protege_fan

I never started a comparison between the two. My first post merely stated that a brand new 2002 Jetta 1.8T (I think) has some nasty electrical problems and I asked if anybody had heard about it. My "zoom zooming" comment at the end was not a jab or anything like that. I was merely stating that I was going back to the Pro forum. Then you started on the "me go fast in Jetta" line.

I don't think these cars are comparable at all. I think VW has made themselves a niche by offering luxury amenities at slightly higher price than a typical economy car. I almost bought a Jetta, but here in Canada, they start at over $21k and when all is said and done, you're looking at over $25k for the 2.0L engine. I've read all your comments on the 2.slow. No way was I going to get one if I was going to be spending that much cash.

newcar31

I agree that it is easier to make a car handle better than it is to make it fast, but no matter what you do to your Jetta, it will still have a cheesy beam axle. I don't think the Protege is an "excessivly slow" car. Look at what class it is in. It really is a cheap car that happens to handle very well. Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking the Jetta in any way. I know the 2.0L in the Protege isn't the greatest engine, but its also a car that costs thousands less. What is the entry level price for a 1.8T? I know you can get a 2.0L equipped Pro for about $13K. Blueguy, the turbo is coming in the very near future, it isn't in the way off "vaporware" future. Why compare the two cars? Because these were the two cars I was looking at when I need a new car.

Anakin

Protege_fan

Then you started on the "me go fast in Jetta" line.

Yah, me do. Fast fast. Zoom Zo-... err, Drivers Wanted. :^)

newcar31

it will still have a cheesy beam axle... I'm not knocking the Jetta in any way.

Hmmmmmm.

blueguydotcom

It's vaporware until it shows up on streets or has an official release date. Ford (parent company of Mazda) has shown the Cougar SVT for years at auto shows. Still no sign of one on the streets.

Hey, you won't get me backing up the Jetta's nasty beam axle. You can mod the car quite a bit but it's still limited by VW's poor engineering. Deep down I'm a bigger fan of Mazda/Nissan handling than anything VW's released ever. Nothing feels better than wringing out an unbreakable Miata with a manual. Slap a supercharger on one of those cars and you have the ultimate grin inducer. I've seriously pondered picking up a 99 Miata as a fun weekend car to offset my VW.

newcar31

Well, I wasn't knocking the Jetta except for the beam axle. This was in response to the statement that it is easy to improve the Jetta's handling. Honestly though, I really do like the Jetta, otherwise I wouldn't read this board. It has a classy interior, great power from the 1.8T, solid structure etc. I do think that on the low end, the Jetta does compete with the Protege. Obviously, Mazda has nothing to compete with Jetta on the high end. Maybe the new Mazda 6 will compete....but it doesn't have an official release date so for now it's vaporware.

Anakin

I don't hate Mazdas or anything, but I'm still perplexed by the Protege vs Jetta thing.

I'm looking forward to the new 6, but especially the RX-8. Now that's some zoom-zoom.

claywaterfill

Don't take it personally. Protege owners love to pop up in other boards (Elantra, Civic, Corolla) and tell the owners there that their cars pale in comparison to the mighty Protege. FWIW, the Jetta does cost more, but I would say they are competitors. They are both compact cars. A loaded Protege will cost about what a lower end Jetta will cost, so I'm sure some cross shopping does exist.

blueguydotcom

Yeah the RX-8, 6 and (hope, hope) a new RX-7 catch my interest. Heck, I'm not even an SUV guy but the Tribute with the V6 is a darn fun little runner. Mazda's shown an MPS Tribute dropped with 17s and a supercharger making 275 hp. Knowing how well it handles now, lowered with 17s it'd be a fun mini-ute. Tack on all that power and I'd even consider moving to the darkside. Consider. But without a manual, it's just not worth it.

vocus

Cross shopping does indeed exist. I actually cross shopped twice and chose both cars. I bought the Protege for its handling and interior room. But then I suffered big-time Jetta envy. The back seat is tighter and the car is more expensive, but I don't care. I like it better than either Protege that I had. It's more fun to have a fast, good-handling car than a slow good-handling car, IMO.

I take 2 beltway ramps every day to go to work. In the Protege, I could only do 60 on one (35 limit) and 50 on the other (25 limit). In the Jetta with sport suspension and 17-inch tires, I can do them at 70 and 60, respectively. So which would be the better handling car? Hmmmm????

protege_fan

Would the Pro not have been able to handle that speed on the ramps? Or did it just not feel safe in the Pro? Just curious if you were pushing it (the Pro) or not. And please...I'm not trying to start a fight.

vocus

Yeah, I was pushing the Protege as high as it "felt" safe. It felt lighter than the Jetta does as well.

You know I am not trying to start any fights either. I like both cars actually. It's just that I think the Jetta meets my needs better than the Protege for now.

bluewolf

I'm sure the Mazda boys remember me... I got into it with them on THEIR board 6 or 8 months ago. It's an argument neither side will ever believe they have lost. I've driven both, and the Mazda feels like it's made of tinfoil, and has a gutless engine and lower crash-test scores to go with it all. I quit going onto the Mazda board long ago, you guys should extend the same courtesy to the VW crew.

protege_fan

Thanks Vocus. I appreciate the civil answer. Blue, my g/f owns a 91 Jetta...does that mean it's ok that I'm here, or are there other special requirements for you apparent little club? I only came onto this board in regards to a problem that my g/f's cousins were having with their new '02 Jetta. I never wanted to start anything...I was here asking a legitimate question.

As I said earlier, this particular forum is very unfriendly...reminds me of some of the Daewoo/Kia arguments I've read.

protege_fan

I appreciate the earlier good will gesture made by Anakin

blueguydotcom

I'd NEVER suggest that a person lacks the "right" or "qualifications" to post in this forum. Some other guy (starts with a "J") last week suggested that only "happy" Jetta owners should post in here. I swear, I've never written such exclusionary things. I'm all for open discussion.

Do we all need to be owners to have opinions? That'd certainly make things bland. Trust me, I get tons of grief in this forum for bashing my Jetta.

Sorry, but you're way off accusing me of being xenophobic.

newcar31

The Mazda feels like "it's made of tinfoil"? Is that really your opinion? I've driven both too. Both cars are tight. If anything, my 2001 ES feels tighter than the non-sport suspension 2001 Jetta 1.8T and GTI 1.8T that I test drove. It's common knowledge that the Protege has one of the most rigid chassis in the compact sedan class, yet to you it feels like "it's made of tinfoil" I'm not trying to start an argument here, but I just don't see how you formed your opinion. I'll agree that compared to the 1.8T, the 2.0L is gutless, after all, the 1.8T does have a five valve head and a turbocharger

Vocus-I'd be curious to see how a Protege ES 2.0L would fare against a Jetta 1.8T with 17s and sport suspension in an autocross course.

Blueguy-I think Protege_fan was refering to bluewolf.

blueguydotcom

Gosh I hope so. I may be a lot of things, but I certainly wouldn't want someone to think I'm a Jetta elitist. Ick.

BTW, maybe the "made of tinfoil" remark had more to do with the feel of the car's components - not the chassis. I'm shocked whenever I ride in my friend's cars now as their doors always feel so flimsy.

newcar31

Ah, I see. I guess I never really paid that much attention to that. The doors on my Protege are pretty light and the plastic on the dashboard is too hard. Nothing beats my old 91 Mustang LX 5.0L notchback as far as cheap components though....well, maybe a Cavalier. I swear the interior door panels were made out of cardboard and vinyl in that car. It was a crude machine, but it left you grinning from ear to ear after driving it for 5 minutes. No matter how bad the components were in that car, I never got sick of driving it.....and those evil 2 chamber flowmaster V8 sounds it made. Memories.

eludwig

I found somewhere online last night that the A5 Golf will be launched in Europe Aug '03 and the new Jetta (Bora?) in Feb '04.

vwguild

Isn't that what I said???:)
Do you remember where you saw this?

bluewolf

The Mazdas handle nice, they're just underpowered.

I was referring to the feel of the light doors and cheap plasticky materials used throughout.

protege_fan

Newcar is right to whom I was referring to. I should have been a little clearer in my post. I've read your posts and I know that you're not xenophobic in any way. I also think that these forums should not be exclusive to owners of whatever particular car.

newcar31

Where'd you guys go? You can't just let your board die like that for a whole day.

vocus

I don't know where everyone went yesterday. I know I was busy working myself, but can't speak for everyone else.