I know what the magazines say my Accord's 0-60 time should have been. The fact remains, however, that if I wanted to go quickly from a stop, I had to floor it. Passing on the freeway? Floor it. Quick maneuver through traffic? Floor it. It was the only way to get the engine to spool up to 4700rpm to move the car. It got old. The Jetta is a lot more responsive at all speeds without having to thrash the engine.
The smoothness of the Honda V6 was nice when cruising on the freeway, but IMO, it was only marginally smoother than my 1.8T. The V6 was quieter, however. The "road roar" inside the Honda was really bad on rough pavement. It was very quiet over smooth highway, but we have precious little of that around here. I think the last time I-5 through Seattle was paved was probably 25 years ago. It sure feels that way anyhow.
But don't get me wrong... my Accord treated me very well. It was reliable, smooth, and had a lot of space for a coupe. I thought it looked real nice in a sleek way, too. The Jetta is just all-around more enjoyable for me to drive, so that's why I decided to switch. I've heard rumors that the next Accord will offer a wagon, and if so, it'll probably be my wife's next car.
please shut up. I don't usually start this type of dialog on the internet, but you've called me out so I will *always* tell you to shut up. BTW, what does the *xxxxxx* (astericks) mean? Is that some way to say that you really mean it?
Also, I was just reading the posts on this site. I could care less about these types of arguments - they're a waste. I wish the conversation would get back to the Jetta and not all of this back and forth stuff. It's really difficult to get any real information out of any of this.
Yes, that is what the astricks mean, I'm glad you figured that out.
Now for the question that you seem to want to avoid. Did I ever say that any car was trouble free?
The comment you made about "shut the sludge up" was pretty clever and funny....sarcasm
Vocus, if the host is going to delete anything, the host will delete Jabilda's post. I'm not the one telling people to shut up, even though I would like to. You are right, that was rude and completely un-called for.
I don't drive a 2001 Honda. I have owned a 2002 Jetta since October 2001. Second Gen IV Jetta. Anything else?
And, of course, I realize that JD Powers and other mags say that Toyota is more reliable than VW.
What is that supposed to mean to me? I mean, seriously, what am I supposed to do with that information? Buy a Toyota? Someone, anyone, please tell me which Toyota even comes close to my Jetta! If they make something, I do not know about it. The CLOSEST would be the IS300, and I don't have the cash right now. At the end of the day, what car out there in the Jetta size area could I buy over a Jetta? Please don't say any Honda or Toyota. They just don't make nice cars for someone my age. Sure, Mom and Pop like them. But I am 28 years old, going on 16. You can't expect me to drive an Accord or a Camry!! I just can't do it!! The only cars in the same price range were the Infiniti G20, the Acura RSX, and the Saab 9-3 with deep discounts, and the Volvo S40, and the hideous WRX. None of them come close the the Jetta in terms of the performance/comfort/value compromise. Seriously, what could anyone else suggest that is truly a good alternative. NOTHING. And there is your answer as to why VW sells every car they make for a profit, and then some. There are no viable alternatives. Until the "reliable" car makers start making something that VW drivers can swallow, VW won't be forced to address any shortcomings. And why would they? They don't have any competition.
Also, I have a 2002 Jetta with gray leather. Has it been discontinued? Why?
The closest I can think of in this price range (to me, anyway) was the 2001 Protege ES I replaced with the Jetta. But even that car felt alot cheaper inside (materials) than the Jetta does. It did have more room though, which I miss sometimes. The handling had less body roll than the Jetta, but the Jetta's 1.8T flat out kills anything Mazda has to offer right now.
I never drove the RSX, the Infiniti, or the Saab. None of them had enough front leg room for me. The S40's reliability scared me from that one.
As far as a mid-size car, which I will upgrade to next (in about 3 years or so), I would have to consider the Passat. Nothing Honda, Toyota, or Nissan offers comes close to the Passat in execution and style, IMO.
there is much more rudeness going on around here (much more than what I post & it is a special occasion for me to do so). Especially the 'firing-off' at one another. The 'shut the sludge up' comment was made for humorous intentions only (not directed at anyone) and, as you even put it, newcar31, it is a reach in the humor category (sarcasm noted). I did not know whom you were until you left your post. I have not been reading these posts because they are all saying the same thing. So, if you have an axe to grind because you're a Toyota owner, go ahead and grind it.
My point was to state (hopefully, as an 'end' statement so the post could focus on he VW Jetta once more) that all manufacturers have issues with cars @ some time, even the industry leaders like Toyota without actually saying it. However, the 'goings back & forth' on this post have continued, most likely to be directed at me.
Wonderful; have yourselves a grand time and I'll continue to check back here for meaningful, useful information scanning past the "zoom-zoom" Mazda and other comments about comparisons between vehicles. Comments that I'm sure have driven others away.
Hey, Host (Revka, I believe?), can we close this discussion - it's lame. This type of conversation can be carried in the owners section of the posts and other comparison posts (VW Jetta vs ?????).
Vocus - I agree on the rudeness part. If you read my original post, I did not mention anyone specifically, so maybe it should be newcar31 that performs the 'rudeness' check on himself. I would not have responded to anyone (and just continued my scanning methods) to get past all of the 'back & forth' until newcar31 called me out. I really do not care about the past few pages of posts. I rely on info from posters like vwguild, moparbad, and others that have provided useful information. Again, my main point is to try and stop the 'who's car is better based on quality' posts that continue to rule this post, unfortunately not communicated well through my 'Toyota' comment. These 'back & forth' posts are full of lame information and those involved should start to email each other back & forth instead of wasting this space. That's what I would like the Host to address.
I totally agree with you (read my post #3701). However, if I buy one now, I would be in a deep trouble between 1.8T/VR6 and "hideous" WRX. I guess my trouble with my VR6 is that it is such a nice all-round player but does not have something sticking out. But again,what else do we have in the market.
I have always been a fan of Mazdas over Honda and Toyota. The Miata is truly an excellent car. The Protege has always been at the top of the econo-car list. And yes, I would love it if the Jetta had the rear seat room that the Protege has.
jabilda:
Believe me, if none of us here that are engaged in these discussions is complaining, why should you ask that we have to stop posting? Outside of newcar31, who has bothered you? I would say, if you don't like it, then don't read it. But that is my attitude towards a lot of things. Just like, if you don't like the car you have, get rid of it. Pretty simple to me
Did anyone see the C&D test of the "hot-hatches"? The GTI came in last.....but for my reasons, it would come in first. Roomy, safe, the fastest, and most luxurious, and best looking. They downgraded it to due body lean and a weird shifter. A FORD won the comparo! I just don't understand....
It is obvious that VW hasn't been paying their C&D bills lately...;)
I totally agree w/ you. That's what I have been doing. I've been scanning through and skipping over the back&forth stuff. I was hoping to initiate change on the post. It's just annoying to hear the same arguments rehashed as much as they appear relevant. I jump to other Jetta posts and read them. That's why I was so surprised that newcar31 *attacked* me; I certainly did not address my original message @ him/her. I would really like those that burned me to take a look back. I generally do not care about these posts (as of late) but I'm not going to be unresponsive to such a personal attack as the newcar31 post.
If the general population on this post wants to discuss comparison posts, instead of opening up comparison discussions (like the hosts have asked for in the past - where are you Hosts, when I need you), I will agree with the popular opinion. My personal opinion (which, I'm sure, none of you care about), is that I would be interested in these posts if I were visiting the "Which is better, Jetta vs XXXXX car' posts - but I'm not; I'm visiting the VW Jetta post. Here is the best example of what I mean. Here is post 3350 from Pat Host:
"Everyone here is welcome to get into a comparison of the Jetta to whatever strikes you! Just please go to the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board and join a conversation in progress or create a new one if you don't see a suitable place for your comments.
THIS discussion is about the Jetta. Period. Why is everyone so resistant to posting in or creating an appropriate comparison discussion?
Certainly some comparison issues will crop up in any single-vehicle focused conversation, but when folks want to get into them as deeply as you folks do, there is a far more appropriate place to do so.
Thanks!! :-)
Pat Host Sedans Message Board "
Also, I will remind all of post 3553 (addressing rudeness by a host): "Well, let's just say the fact that you have ignored my request to move on doesn't exactly feel like a Christmas card. :-)
I mean it. We are going to move on.
Further posts containing personal slams WILL be removed. If any of you are unable to let this go, then you will have to take it off-line to continue.
Thank you.
Pat Host Sedans Message Board "
Or 3550
"let's move on now.
There is no need to get into the personal digs that are going on here. We all are entitled to our own opinions and our own preferences.
It would be a very good thing if some of you would just take a deep breath and not take everything so seriously.
I think we can find a way to believe in our own values and opinions without having to either defend them in a hostile manner, or attack others because they may see things differently. Let's give it a try, okay?
Thanks.
Pat Host"
This post is for the VW Jetta, not comparos. I am not a host, therefore, I'm sure that the next page of posts will slam me, even nicely. I just wish the hosts would step in and stop the GLX / Mazda / Honda / Toyota / Other vs. Jetta discussions. Revka, where are you when I need you????
What proof is that? You gave me a link to VWvortex and some yahoo's pic of a yellow Mazda. Gosh, what incredible proof. It's still vaporware. When Mazda (not a nabob on Vortex) releases pricing details and sets a release date, I'll believe it (maybe even buy it! - I love Mazdas and Nissans) but until then, you still lack any sort of reliable source.
What a nice idea though. A jetta's power, matched with Mazda performance.
And good grief, I'm beginning to think other posters (not you) need to get off their high horse about this forum being strictly about one topic, never going with the natural flow and ebb of a conversation. To discuss a Jetta's strengths and weaknesses one must discuss other vehicles. Saying the Jetta is a good or bad is ridiculuous if we don't provide strawmen or competitors.
THAT's an interesting experience, to see some prior posts of mine quoted back like that! :-)
I am the Sedans board host, not revka. Perhaps in the future you could just drop me an email if you need some assistance - it's kind of unsettling for me, and perhaps for others here, to have someone speaking "for" me in that manner. Perhaps those particular comments apply to this situation, or perhaps they don't, but I think that's kinda my call, you know?
Look, here's the deal - everybody just needs to quit arguing and sniping at each other. If you see a post you find aggravating, just MOVE ON. You are not required to tell people not to post things that annoy you.
You are required to keep your posts within the civil and respectful discourse requirements of the Membership Agreement.
Some off-topic comparisons here are certainly acceptable so long as they do not turn into arguments, like what has been going on here. If we really need to have a serious knock-down drag-out ... uh, well you know what I mean! ... about a comparison, the Comparisons Board is the proper place to do that, not in an individual vehicle discussion.
Frankly, right now there is way too much animosity going on in here for me to be able to fairly sort it out.
So I'm drawing the line here - no matter what the reason, if any post from this point forward is in my judgment not civil and respectful, it goes poof!
Same for off-topic posts that have no reason to be here - such as messages continuing to discuss the argumentative issues here. Feel free to email me if you need to continue.
Suddenly you're trusting an NY Times article for carrying the gospel truth? Again, when MAZDA releases the info, I'll believe it. Until then it's not reliable or believable. Heck, Edmunds, R&T, Motor Trend and host of others also claim that the Protege will get a turbo. Of course they also said that an SVT Cougar was coming years ago.
BTW, have you modded your Jetta in any fashion? I'm trying to find a good price on sway bars but so far everybody seems to have them at over $200.
I don't have a Jetta, but I almost did. When shopping for a new car, I looked at Jettas and Proteges. I planned on getting a silver 2001 1.8T Jetta and getting a Garrett chip for it. Garrett claimed 190 hp and 240 lbs-ft of torque with their chip! That's all I was going to do. In a way, I'm glad I didn't because VW upped the hp to 180 in 2002 with warranty and low torque peak intact. I almost knew VW would do that because 150hp from a 5 valve 1.8L turbo seems awfully de-tuned.
I don't take NY times for gospel, but I don't see why they'd waste space on a Protege unless it was news worthy. The Cougar wasn't exactly embraced by the automotive press, OTOH, the Protege is almost universely praised by all publications. The most common complaint about the Protege is that it doesn't have enough power. Road & Track said that a "chassis this good deserves a better engine". I'm sure Mazda is aware of the power deficit and the other cars in it's class. I don't see why Mazda wouldn't want to compete with the SE-R, Civic Si, RSX, Jetta 1.8T, Focus SVT, etc. That's why I'd bet money that the news about the turbo Protege is true.
Come on folks, let's just try to focus on the Jetta for a while - you really can go to the Comparisons board to continue the discussion about Protege vs. Jetta (or either vs anything else) but we need to let this discussion concentrate on the Jetta.
The JD Power & Associates recommendations came from http://www.jdpower.com, after entering those 8 vehicles and prioritizing vehicle attributes as I described.
The Jetta faired poorly due to long-term reliability, which JDP&A defines as the quality of the engine, transmission, steering, suspension, and braking after 4-5 years.
Still considering chipping. The extra dollop of torque and from what I've seen with and GIAC dynos, about 200 HP, I can see value even for the people with the 180 HP version of the Jetta (which has only about 160-some lbs.-ft of torque). I've got the weaker AWE engine with 150 or so horses (some Vortex freaks claim that engine makes more than the AWW) and I definitely need more power. I knew that when I bought the car though. I purchased the 1.8T with every intention of chipping the car eventually as it was far too slow for my tastes (and I couldn't see getting the VR6 with that extra weight in the front of an already poor handling FWD car).
The APR chip (with the cruise control options) is down the road a bit though, unless I trade the car before that time. I'm more concerned with the handling. After I've solved that issue, then I'll look to getting the engine to be more than just a little punchy.
please please please tell me you aren't using JD POWER as the gospel. they recommend Honda and Toyotas. Nuff said VW's have long been known for their durability, as Toyotas have been known for their reliability. i think where VW might lose out over the long haul is in maintenance cost. i will be due for my 5k service here in a month or so, and i dread taking it to the dealer. but, i don't trust a sears or goodyear or whatever to change the oil. i should learn to do it myself...;)
also, the tape/foils are applied along the top edge of the offending door, where it meets the body of the car when closed. pretty much where the door hits the black seals on the inside of the top of the car.
my advice - take all periodical reports with a grain of salt. you will find, almost 100% of the time, they contradict themselves, usually in the same year, sometimes even in the same issue.
I still can't believe you can get 240 lbs-ft of torque out of the 1.8T by simply chipping it. If I had a 1.8T, the chip would be very tempting. I'd be a little worried about the warranty issues that might come up though. I would really like to drive a GIAC chipped 1.8T Jetta or Golf. I can't imagine what that kind of torque would be like in a relatively lightweight FWD car. Not a lot of money for big gains, that's what I like.
For the Jetta and all production vehicles, JD Power performs quantitative market research by surveying a statistically representative sample of each vehicle's owners. Jetta owners scored their car 2 out of 5, the lowest possible grade, for long-term reliability.
I've driven a chipped 1.8T Golf sporting the APR. Wow! That little bugger flat hauled. Very tempting to toss down the green for a Jetta. with the same chip.
It's hard for me to reconcile parting with $600 on a car I can't see owning for more than a year. I'm not too worried about the warranty though as APR's selectable power makes the chip all but invisible (unless a dealership is REALLY looking for it) and from what I've found, there's one dealership in San Diego that's well known for turning a blind eye to chipping, unless it obviously damaged the car.
eludwig, I tend to put more faith in CR and JD power than many people. Some just don't buy sampling. Others think that JD or CR have some rather obscure reason to misrepresent data. Odd.
Here is what I did and it solved the problem 100%. When you open the door, look at the body (inside the door ledge) where the door sits when closed. There is a U shaped piece of metal, this is the striker plate, it hooks to the door and keeps it closed. This has 2 torx bolts on it that can be adjusted, I just don't have the correct tool. Anyway, take a small piece of duct tape, about 1/2-3/4 inch wide and wrap it around the U bar in the middle a few times, make it look nice and neat (you don't want you Jetta looking like Uncle Jessie's pickup now do you?). Thats it, it fixed mine, a lot easier than going to the dealer evertime it started to creak again. The dealer did adjust it a couple of times but it always came back.
2003 is likely the last year for current Jetta and there will be fewer choices for Jetta in 2003.
No more Cool White, Blue Lagoon, Bright Green and Tornado Red Color replacement: Alaska Green; new color: Platinum Grey Two trims (GLS, GLX, no more base GL) Standard cold-weather package for all Jettas Standard sport suspension for GLX, not available for GLS Standard side-curtain airbag protection VR6 for GLX only, no longer for GLS No more Monsoon stereo upgrade as stand-alone option No more grey interiors (includes cloth,leather)
I am sorry to see the GL go, it had better interior with the cloth and roll down windows instead of the failure prone power windows.
Anyone want to discuss VW's and Jetta or are you all more interested in each other.?
First year issues. ISS and A/C compressor. GM stepped up to the plate and replaced car without having to use BBB or lawyers. Paid only mileage deduction.
2001 has been great after 12K miles.
Does VW steps up to the plate with unhappy owners?
Oh and in case someone thinks I am an anti-VW zealot..think again!
Helped my sister get a brand new 2002 VW Golf GL 5-door hatchback 3 weeks ago. Haggled the final price down to $16K. Car equipped with 8-speaker cassette stereo, power locks, ABS and automatic. She is very happy with it and I get to drive it from time to time. Fabulous car!
I'd like to see this Platinum Grey, I think it could look good if done right. I don't think it's a good decision by VW to make the VR6 only available in the GLX trim. What's the point of bringing back the GLI in a few months only to discontinue it a few months later? The GLI is for the driver who doesn't want all the luxuries, but still wants the performace. Once again, VW doesn't make any sense. I do like the standard cold weather and side airbags though.
Was this info released by VW? Seems a little odd and nonsensical. I don't buy it. VW's been expanding the line-up for years...and sales continue to increase. Doing away with the 2.0 slow GL and the GLI trim makes no sense. We'll see.
The GLS VR6 is no longer in production. The elimination of GLI is not listed, I suspect that in listing only two trims the GLI is simply being overlooked. The source of the info. attributed the elimination of colors and options to cost savings. Standardization will decrease cost and it was stated that VW expects the 2003 market to be stagnant or decreasing. Also mentioned from the same source was that there would be a 100HP TDI in 2003. It is said that the 100HP has lower emissions than current US 90HP TDI and offers 100HP at 4000RPM, 177#/ft torque at 1800RMP and slightly higher fuel economy. Previous releases of info. over the past two years have been very accurate, only time will tell, but if I wanted a GL Jetta or Matchstick Red GTI I would be obtaining it now. The info. was obtained from inside VWoA.
I really like the GL, thats what we have, a 2000. We didn't get the GLS b/c I liked the tan GL interior better and the only other upgrade was the power windows (I don't mind crank ones) and power mirrors (that is nice, but not worth the extra money IMHO) and cruise if I remember right (again, nice to have, but not really necessary)plus you got the ability to get the luxury package with the alloys and sunroof. Having alloys is key and we just had VW put on a set of the Reggae VW wheels which IMHO are much better looking that the stock alloys. I know the stockers were 16" but that doesn't make much difference to me and since we stuck with the 2.0 L (which I think provides more than adequate power) the GL was the ticket. One thing about the Jetta that was so attractive to us when we got it was that you didn't have to upgrade models to get the safety features. Daytime running lights, ABS, front and side airbags all standard on a 16K car. That is hard to beat, plus, on many cars, the bottom end models are so stripped that they don't have color keyed bumpers and mirrors etc, the GL looks just like a GLX from the outside. I think VW provides lots of bang for the buck, even thought they have a few issues.
The wheels in the Luxury Pkg. for the GLS 2.0 models are 15-inch ones. The only ones that get mandatory 16s is the GLS VR6 (GLX wheels).
I liked the idea of the GL too, until I lived with the decked out GLS 1.8T that I have. You become used to power windows, the sunroof, the "convenience close" feature, the steering wheel radio controls, the Monsoon sound, the center armrest, and all the nice features the GLS has.
I agree about not having to purchase safety features separately or in addition to the cost of the car. The Jetta is very well equipped for its price, I think. And things like the center sunvisor and lighted mirrors are often not offered on other same-priced cars.
My sister's 2002 Golf GL is a pretty nice car. It has crank windows but when you are in that nicely appointed cabin, you soon forget about the need for power windows.
Vocus... you have steering wheel radio controls?!?
Is this one of those "rolling changes" that I missed out on?
My '02 1.8T has the old non-CD radio and a normal steering wheel with no controls. I don't mind the radio, since I have the 6-changer, but I wish I had the wheel controls. :^(
Yeah, I do. I also have the leather package though, and that's how you get the steering wheel controls.
The Monsoon system is pretty cool. I don't know if the single-DIN one is like this (I have the double-DIN one with cassette & CD), but I can run my radio without the key in the ignition for one hour without killing the battery. How cool is that?
Also, those cloth seats are unbearable! My loaner 2.0 GLS had them, and I had a white sweatshirt on that day. There was more lint on the armrest than on the sweatshirt I had on! I would go NUTS if I had that mess to deal with! Also, my friend's daughter got into my car and lost her bottle of milk on the seat. I almost flipped, until I realized I had leather and wiped the drops right up. It was definitely worth the money for that.
I also forgot, I do NOT have the extended tailpipes. Mine are silver, but they stop under the rear bumper, and do not stick out unless you bend a little and look under the car. I am rebadging my car though, with the Euro badges instead of the 1.8T on the back. Also adding the "Wolfsburg" plates under the fender turn signal lights. I like the way they look alot.
The radio will play for 1hr on all Jettas, which is pretty cool. Handy for detailing the interior with the tunes on. I also like how the tunes stay on after the key is turned to shut the engine off.
Yes, the velour is a lint magnet, but it's more comfy than the GL's scratchy cloth. The way to go is leather, with standard cold pkg. Although I really like my GTI sport cloth seats better than standard Jetta seats.
I love my grey leather. Black is too black - at least the grey breaks up the black dash, etc. And I hate the beige. They should come up with a camel instead.
Comments
The smoothness of the Honda V6 was nice when cruising on the freeway, but IMO, it was only marginally smoother than my 1.8T. The V6 was quieter, however. The "road roar" inside the Honda was really bad on rough pavement. It was very quiet over smooth highway, but we have precious little of that around here. I think the last time I-5 through Seattle was paved was probably 25 years ago. It sure feels that way anyhow.
But don't get me wrong... my Accord treated me very well. It was reliable, smooth, and had a lot of space for a coupe. I thought it looked real nice in a sleek way, too. The Jetta is just all-around more enjoyable for me to drive, so that's why I decided to switch. I've heard rumors that the next Accord will offer a wagon, and if so, it'll probably be my wife's next car.
Also, I was just reading the posts on this site. I could care less about these types of arguments - they're a waste. I wish the conversation would get back to the Jetta and not all of this back and forth stuff. It's really difficult to get any real information out of any of this.
Host - can you clear this up?
Now for the question that you seem to want to avoid. Did I ever say that any car was trouble free?
The comment you made about "shut the sludge up" was pretty clever and funny....sarcasm
Vocus, if the host is going to delete anything, the host will delete Jabilda's post. I'm not the one telling people to shut up, even though I would like to. You are right, that was rude and completely un-called for.
I don't drive a 2001 Honda. I have owned a 2002 Jetta since October 2001. Second Gen IV Jetta. Anything else?
And, of course, I realize that JD Powers and other mags say that Toyota is more reliable than VW.
What is that supposed to mean to me? I mean, seriously, what am I supposed to do with that information? Buy a Toyota? Someone, anyone, please tell me which Toyota even comes close to my Jetta! If they make something, I do not know about it. The CLOSEST would be the IS300, and I don't have the cash right now. At the end of the day, what car out there in the Jetta size area could I buy over a Jetta? Please don't say any Honda or Toyota. They just don't make nice cars for someone my age. Sure, Mom and Pop like them. But I am 28 years old, going on 16.
Also, I have a 2002 Jetta with gray leather. Has it been discontinued? Why?
I never drove the RSX, the Infiniti, or the Saab. None of them had enough front leg room for me. The S40's reliability scared me from that one.
As far as a mid-size car, which I will upgrade to next (in about 3 years or so), I would have to consider the Passat. Nothing Honda, Toyota, or Nissan offers comes close to the Passat in execution and style, IMO.
My point was to state (hopefully, as an 'end' statement so the post could focus on he VW Jetta once more) that all manufacturers have issues with cars @ some time, even the industry leaders like Toyota without actually saying it. However, the 'goings back & forth' on this post have continued, most likely to be directed at me.
Wonderful; have yourselves a grand time and I'll continue to check back here for meaningful, useful information scanning past the "zoom-zoom" Mazda and other comments about comparisons between vehicles. Comments that I'm sure have driven others away.
Hey, Host (Revka, I believe?), can we close this discussion - it's lame. This type of conversation can be carried in the owners section of the posts and other comparison posts (VW Jetta vs ?????).
Vocus - I agree on the rudeness part. If you read my original post, I did not mention anyone specifically, so maybe it should be newcar31 that performs the 'rudeness' check on himself. I would not have responded to anyone (and just continued my scanning methods) to get past all of the 'back & forth' until newcar31 called me out. I really do not care about the past few pages of posts. I rely on info from posters like vwguild, moparbad, and others that have provided useful information. Again, my main point is to try and stop the 'who's car is better based on quality' posts that continue to rule this post, unfortunately not communicated well through my 'Toyota' comment. These 'back & forth' posts are full of lame information and those involved should start to email each other back & forth instead of wasting this space. That's what I would like the Host to address.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=252127
How does this relate to the Jetta? I think this will be a worthy competitor to the 1.8T.
jabilda:
Believe me, if none of us here that are engaged in these discussions is complaining, why should you ask that we have to stop posting? Outside of newcar31, who has bothered you? I would say, if you don't like it, then don't read it. But that is my attitude towards a lot of things. Just like, if you don't like the car you have, get rid of it. Pretty simple to me
Did anyone see the C&D test of the "hot-hatches"? The GTI came in last.....but for my reasons, it would come in first. Roomy, safe, the fastest, and most luxurious, and best looking. They downgraded it to due body lean and a weird shifter. A FORD won the comparo! I just don't understand....
It is obvious that VW hasn't been paying their C&D bills lately...;)
If the general population on this post wants to discuss comparison posts, instead of opening up comparison discussions (like the hosts have asked for in the past - where are you Hosts, when I need you), I will agree with the popular opinion. My personal opinion (which, I'm sure, none of you care about), is that I would be interested in these posts if I were visiting the "Which is better, Jetta vs XXXXX car' posts - but I'm not; I'm visiting the VW Jetta post. Here is the best example of what I mean. Here is post 3350 from Pat Host:
"Everyone here is welcome to get into a comparison of the Jetta to whatever strikes you! Just please go to the Comparisons - Sedans vs. Sedans board and join a conversation in progress or create a new one if you don't see a suitable place for your comments.
THIS discussion is about the Jetta. Period. Why is everyone so resistant to posting in or creating an appropriate comparison discussion?
Certainly some comparison issues will crop up in any single-vehicle focused conversation, but when folks want to get into them as deeply as you folks do, there is a far more appropriate place to do so.
Thanks!! :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board "
Also, I will remind all of post 3553 (addressing rudeness by a host):
"Well, let's just say the fact that you have ignored my request to move on doesn't exactly feel like a Christmas card. :-)
I mean it. We are going to move on.
Further posts containing personal slams WILL be removed. If any of you are unable to let this go, then you will have to take it off-line to continue.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board "
Or 3550
"let's move on now.
There is no need to get into the personal digs that are going on here. We all are entitled to our own opinions and our own preferences.
It would be a very good thing if some of you would just take a deep breath and not take everything so seriously.
I think we can find a way to believe in our own values and opinions without having to either defend them in a hostile manner, or attack others because they may see things differently. Let's give it a try, okay?
Thanks.
Pat
Host"
This post is for the VW Jetta, not comparos. I am not a host, therefore, I'm sure that the next page of posts will slam me, even nicely. I just wish the hosts would step in and stop the GLX / Mazda / Honda / Toyota / Other vs. Jetta discussions. Revka, where are you when I need you????
What a nice idea though. A jetta's power, matched with Mazda performance.
And good grief, I'm beginning to think other posters (not you) need to get off their high horse about this forum being strictly about one topic, never going with the natural flow and ebb of a conversation. To discuss a Jetta's strengths and weaknesses one must discuss other vehicles. Saying the Jetta is a good or bad is ridiculuous if we don't provide strawmen or competitors.
I am the Sedans board host, not revka. Perhaps in the future you could just drop me an email if you need some assistance - it's kind of unsettling for me, and perhaps for others here, to have someone speaking "for" me in that manner. Perhaps those particular comments apply to this situation, or perhaps they don't, but I think that's kinda my call, you know?
Look, here's the deal - everybody just needs to quit arguing and sniping at each other. If you see a post you find aggravating, just MOVE ON. You are not required to tell people not to post things that annoy you.
You are required to keep your posts within the civil and respectful discourse requirements of the Membership Agreement.
Some off-topic comparisons here are certainly acceptable so long as they do not turn into arguments, like what has been going on here. If we really need to have a serious knock-down drag-out ... uh, well you know what I mean! ... about a comparison, the Comparisons Board is the proper place to do that, not in an individual vehicle discussion.
Frankly, right now there is way too much animosity going on in here for me to be able to fairly sort it out.
So I'm drawing the line here - no matter what the reason, if any post from this point forward is in my judgment not civil and respectful, it goes poof!
Same for off-topic posts that have no reason to be here - such as messages continuing to discuss the argumentative issues here. Feel free to email me if you need to continue.
Okay? Thanks!
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
BTW, have you modded your Jetta in any fashion? I'm trying to find a good price on sway bars but so far everybody seems to have them at over $200.
Tough sell...oh well
I don't take NY times for gospel, but I don't see why they'd waste space on a Protege unless it was news worthy. The Cougar wasn't exactly embraced by the automotive press, OTOH, the Protege is almost universely praised by all publications. The most common complaint about the Protege is that it doesn't have enough power. Road & Track said that a "chassis this good deserves a better engine". I'm sure Mazda is aware of the power deficit and the other cars in it's class. I don't see why Mazda wouldn't want to compete with the SE-R, Civic Si, RSX, Jetta 1.8T, Focus SVT, etc. That's why I'd bet money that the news about the turbo Protege is true.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
back to my last question: is the gray interior on new Jettas not available anymore? if so, does anyone know why VW did that?
The Jetta faired poorly due to long-term reliability, which JDP&A defines as the quality of the engine, transmission, steering, suspension, and braking after 4-5 years.
The APR chip (with the cruise control options) is down the road a bit though, unless I trade the car before that time. I'm more concerned with the handling. After I've solved that issue, then I'll look to getting the engine to be more than just a little punchy.
also, the tape/foils are applied along the top edge of the offending door, where it meets the body of the car when closed. pretty much where the door hits the black seals on the inside of the top of the car.
my advice - take all periodical reports with a grain of salt. you will find, almost 100% of the time, they contradict themselves, usually in the same year, sometimes even in the same issue.
Because they start accelerating in their own state but run out of state before they get going fast enough!!!
;-)
Meade
(Another Virginian)
It's hard for me to reconcile parting with $600 on a car I can't see owning for more than a year. I'm not too worried about the warranty though as APR's selectable power makes the chip all but invisible (unless a dealership is REALLY looking for it) and from what I've found, there's one dealership in San Diego that's well known for turning a blind eye to chipping, unless it obviously damaged the car.
eludwig, I tend to put more faith in CR and JD power than many people. Some just don't buy sampling. Others think that JD or CR have some rather obscure reason to misrepresent data. Odd.
No more Cool White, Blue Lagoon, Bright Green and Tornado Red
Color replacement: Alaska Green; new color: Platinum Grey
Two trims (GLS, GLX, no more base GL)
Standard cold-weather package for all Jettas
Standard sport suspension for GLX, not available for GLS
Standard side-curtain airbag protection
VR6 for GLX only, no longer for GLS
No more Monsoon stereo upgrade as stand-alone option
No more grey interiors (includes cloth,leather)
I am sorry to see the GL go, it had better interior with the cloth and roll down windows instead of the failure prone power windows.
Anyone want to discuss VW's and Jetta or are you all more interested in each other.?
You know, the one Chevy had to buy back from you because it was so awful?
2001 has been great after 12K miles.
Does VW steps up to the plate with unhappy owners?
Helped my sister get a brand new 2002 VW Golf GL 5-door hatchback 3 weeks ago. Haggled the final price down to $16K. Car equipped with 8-speaker cassette stereo, power locks, ABS and automatic. She is very happy with it and I get to drive it from time to time. Fabulous car!
Also mentioned from the same source was that there would be a 100HP TDI in 2003. It is said that the 100HP has lower emissions than current US 90HP TDI and offers 100HP at 4000RPM, 177#/ft torque at 1800RMP and slightly higher fuel economy.
Previous releases of info. over the past two years have been very accurate, only time will tell, but if I wanted a GL Jetta or Matchstick Red GTI I would be obtaining it now. The info. was obtained from inside VWoA.
I liked the idea of the GL too, until I lived with the decked out GLS 1.8T that I have. You become used to power windows, the sunroof, the "convenience close" feature, the steering wheel radio controls, the Monsoon sound, the center armrest, and all the nice features the GLS has.
I agree about not having to purchase safety features separately or in addition to the cost of the car. The Jetta is very well equipped for its price, I think. And things like the center sunvisor and lighted mirrors are often not offered on other same-priced cars.
Is this one of those "rolling changes" that I missed out on?
My '02 1.8T has the old non-CD radio and a normal steering wheel with no controls. I don't mind the radio, since I have the 6-changer, but I wish I had the wheel controls. :^(
The Monsoon system is pretty cool. I don't know if the single-DIN one is like this (I have the double-DIN one with cassette & CD), but I can run my radio without the key in the ignition for one hour without killing the battery. How cool is that?
Also, those cloth seats are unbearable! My loaner 2.0 GLS had them, and I had a white sweatshirt on that day. There was more lint on the armrest than on the sweatshirt I had on! I would go NUTS if I had that mess to deal with! Also, my friend's daughter got into my car and lost her bottle of milk on the seat. I almost flipped, until I realized I had leather and wiped the drops right up. It was definitely worth the money for that.
Of course we can roll windows up or down and open or close the sunroof too.
Yes, the velour is a lint magnet, but it's more comfy than the GL's scratchy cloth. The way to go is leather, with standard cold pkg. Although I really like my GTI sport cloth seats better than standard Jetta seats.
And I hate the beige. They should come up with a camel instead.