Vocus, I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with your post about vw long-term reliability. Perhaps it's that I get tired of reading posts about VW bashing from people that don't have an iota of experience in VW ownership, or maybe I just feel the need to share my own experiences once in a while. I'm sorry I have to spew this out in your direction specifically, but I can't take it anymore. Before my current Jetta, I owned an '85 Jetta turbodiesel (62 ponies). This car, to me, was the most miraculous thing on the road. I had at least 426,000 miles on it when I got rear ended by an explorer. (I say at least because the odometer cable was messed up for a while.) I drive a ton of miles, and because of it, I personally can attest to their long-term reliability and durability. I still got 47 mpg on the highway when it got smashed. 47 MPG!!! While this isn't a typical story of ownership, it is possible. For those of us who have a long-standing relationship with VW's and know the culture that loves them, we know others with similar experiences. What other automaker gives you a new car if you drive the old model enough? Did you know that there's a few Bugs that have run 1 million miles? How many 60's and 70's Beetles do you see around town? Now, how many other brands' vehicles do you see from the 60's running around town? This is what I'm talking about. My jetta compression tested within 0.2 psi of factory spec on all 4 cylinders at 250,000 miles!!!! Did I have problems with that car at times? You bet I did! Did I perform a lot of maintainance? You bet I did! I changed more fluids than Jiffy Lube does in a year! I went through parts from time to time. But the point is the same. I know from experience that VW's are known in certain circles (though they're probably not employed by J.D. Power) to be extremely long-term durable. It just kills me. How many people have told Teo that his Impala sucks and is a piece of junk? Many, many. Did this prove to Teo that his car is indeed inferior and in fact he should sell it now, and buy something else? Of course not. Nor should it. Most of the people bashing it have probably never even been in it, just as same as most of the people bashing VW have never driven one long enough to love it as some of us have. People who have never owned a car longer than 5 years have no business telling others about the merits of certain brands' durability. Maybe 100k is long-term for some auto manufacturers and that's your reference. In my experience, not for VW.
It's VW Jetta drivers, not JD Power or other posters, who bash the car via surveys and in the end give it a bad reputation for long-term reliability. If you disagree, you should take issue with VW and other VW owners, not JD Power or those relaying facts on this board.
The data suggests that a VW Jetta sold within the past 3 model years will suffer from at least average (actually worse) reliability. You may stand up and shout forever that you had a Jetta that ran for 670,000 miles needing only one new lightbulb and that car was driven uphill both ways to work in rush hour daily but the fact is that the current Mk IV Jetta is at best an average car for reliability (and average in this sense means it falls into the 50% category, which is horrendous as 50-60% is still an F). You can't deny the empirical evidence.
Ok, you win, VWs are of only average reliability. So what? A lot of people buy cars for other reasons, like enjoyment. Now, can we talk about Jettas? If you think yours sucks, sell it and quit whining. If your breaks down all the time, go to the maintenance/repair board and [non-permissible content removed] about it there or suit VW, lord knows I would if mine had the problems some people here have had. I would never argue that VW is the most reliable car on the road, but I would argue its one of the most fun to own and drive.
We all need to remember that we ALL are entitled to our own opinions, and that each of our individual experiences do not a reputation make.
I can like the color yellow and someone else here can detest it.
Neither of us is right, and neither of us is wrong. We are simply being human and feeling and expressing our own preferences.
There is nothing wrong with that as long as we realize that our own preferences are just that - our OWN - and we do not expect everyone else in the world to feel the same way that we do.
It seems clear to me that very many folks choose Jettas simply for the driving pleasure. There is NOTHING wrong with that.
And there is no need for the folks who have chosen this vehicle to react so defensively to those who did not/would not make the same choice. You had your own reasons for your decision, you love your vehicle, right? Why do you feel you must justify your personal choice to others who would follow a different path? Or to those who have had a very different experience with the same vehicle?
The bottom line is that you chose what made you happy, and it seems that most of you are still happy. Isn't that enough? Can't you let go of the fact that some Jetta owners have had problems and other folks are troubled by reports of reliability issues? If your Jetta is fine and you are generally happy with your decision, why do you care that others may see the vehicle differently?
We are going to STOP the arguments here.
It is not possible for me to babysit this discussion 24/7, which is what seems to be required here. If we cannot calm down, get back on subject and stay within the parameters of the Membership Agreement, this discussion is going to be closed.
Once again, the point has been misunderstood. If you read carefully, you know that I am talking about long-term reliability! Who has a MK IV Jetta with enough mileage on it to talk about long-term reliability? Of course no one does! The PAST 3 YEARS ARE NOT LONG-TERM DURABILITY!!! While you may be very correct that the Mk IV Jettas will not have the durability of earlier cars (which I will agree with you on) data generated by the past 3 years of responses on a survey don't have anything to do with long-term durability. What I was responding do specifically, is the discrediting of an individual who said that VW's have been known to be durable long-term. My experience is that this is true, and I felt the need to respond to the implication that this attitute was better suited for "another planet." You may talk about "empirical evidence" all you want but you must admit to me that data generated over the last 3 model years by JD power says absolutely nothing about long-term durability. Your hostility is misplaced when you flaunt the numbers surrounding the newest generation of Jetta. I don't recall saying anything about the reliability issues surrounding MK IV Jetta in my post. That's why I sit here and digest others' experiences in their Mk IV, and don't try to tell them that their idiots for having their opinion. I value the opinions of those fellow VW Jetta owners in this forum. That's why I'm here. While your attempt to discredit me by making snipe remarks such as "670000 miles in rush-hour traffic, only one headlight out,etc.," may have pleased you thoroughly, it deters me very little. I clearly mentioned that I replaced a lot of parts. I did a ton of maintainance. Obviously, a person has to do a lot of highway driving to rack up that kind of mileage. And while the JD power reference may have been a bit misplaced, I share only my opinions based on my personal experience. I'm posting based on my experience, which I should hope you do too, blueguy. Ironic that I do only what you do in your own posts, yet you attack me for it. Ironic, don't you think?
I've grown weary of arguing without an end in sight. Keeping that in mind, WINDSHIELDS!
I took a monster rock the other day in my rain-sensor equipped jetta. Has anyone else had to replace a windshield on a GLX? I was thinking I'd take it to PPG, but then I remembered that the sensor is mounted on it. What's it cost to replace it, and do I need the dealer to do it?
JD does extrapolate from data that the current Jetta will not be reliable long-term. Someone else posted regarding that earlier this week. Past VW Jettas may have been reliable but the current model according to JD Power ranks 2 out of 5 spots for long-term reliability, which places it in the lowest ranking.
The point of my hyperbole regarding the 670k Jetta with only one busted light wasn't to say that your car wasn't exceptionally reliable, only to make a point that people with odd anecdotes always pop out of the woodwork, relaying personal outlandish (probably truthful) experiences with a car as if that personal anecdote refutes statistical data. I did not in my last post in any fashion relate a personal experience with my Jetta. Even if my Jetta has been mechanically sound, that's not proof that the design is somehow good. The stats prove otherwise. I may have a good Jetta (based on major mechanical malfunctions), but that does not carry over for the model as a whole.
BTW, nothing I've written to you about the Jetta contains personal opinions. I've written figures JD Power generated after doing research and conducting surveys. The auto industry trusts JD Power and cites them whenever Power's stats make a model look good, such as the Jetta's being ranking one of the most desired compact sedans.
I appreciate your attempt to debate in a civilized and intelligent manner. It would be easy to respond in an inflammatory way, and I recognize that you're not doing that. Props to you. If I may be so bold, I would say that very few of new models/designs on the market will be as reliable long-term as their predecessors. It seems to me that the auto industry as a whole has become too reliant upon complex and rarely-fixable computer processes. Not a defense of the current Jetta issues, just my observations of the auto industry as a whole. What did grandpa say, more parts means more things to go wrong?
I agree with soupnazi that cars seem to have more problems these days, whether VW's or Hondas. I'd also say that CEO's of major car manufacturers are being challenged more than ever trying to balance reducing costs with better quality.
Back to the Jetta...
I like the looks of them in dark blue with beige leather ; )
I love the dark blue with beige and I often lament that a WE couldn't be had with leather. 1.8T's with leather and manual were nearly impossible to find last year. Trust me, I desperately wanted the leather. I contacted every dealer within 150 miles of San Diego and not a single one had a dark blue 1.8T with leather, moonroof, sports suspension. They'd always have them with autos or no sports suspension or the monsoon. Oh well.
Awhile ago I made a posting and was really impressed with the response. Thank you all for the responses. But, now that I have test drove my 3 vehicles in question, I need some additional advice.
Yesterday, I test drove the following vehicles and had mixed feelings from all. Here are the results:-
2002 Acura RSX -> Not the Type-S because it was too much money for a car that looks like that I was really disappointed with the handling and performance of the premium package one that I drove. Also, the internal compartment seemed a bit small and tight.
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GT -> The buttons and gadgets was very similar to the older models, which was a huge turn off (was a previous owner of a '92 model). The ride was not too bad, but the weight of the car is very noticable. Was not able to test out the handling on it too well.
2002 Jetta GLS 1.8T -> LOVED IT. I have never drove a car like this before. I loved the maximum torque at low RPM output. The cars performance was immediate and very responsive. There is so much to say about this car, but I will go on and on and take up too much space, like I am already.
All in all, the other cars did very little for me, but when I walked away from driving the 1.8T, I was all smiles.
My choice should be very obvious right now, so all I need now is some advice on if I should lease or finace the 1.8T. Thinking about leasing because I have been reading up on the postings in this board and noticed that there are quite a bit of problems by car owners. One being the rattles, etc. Another reason is that I have been told that repairs, parts and maintenance are very high on Volkswagon vehicles.
Please advise. Open to opinions and if you can, please try to convince me more to buy it
Well I lease but that's for business reasons. If I had my druthers, I'd be financing the car.
Consider the great finance rates available and the fact that when you finance, every payment goes toward the principal. With leasing every payment barely drops the buyout price. I bought my Jetta 1.8T WE in June for about 19.5k and I've made 9 payments on the car thus far. You know what my buyout is...$18,745.70. How the blazes that works out is beyond my ken. Regardless, selling the car before the end of my lease will cost me several thousand dollars at this point as my Jetta can't possibly be worth more than 15-16k right now. Unless you get a tax write-off, or the car has an amazing lease deal, go with financing. But that's just my opinion.
i'll second the motion. the big downside of leasing is the penalty of unloading the car early. which is exactly what i want to do. i'm never going to lease a car again. with interest rates soooooo low, it makes even more sense to buy instead of leasing.
if the grey is going to be discontinued, will there be a different color to replace it? i will not get a black interior, so is beige my only option?
also, if the monsoon sound system is not a stand alone option anymore, what option package will it be part of? it will be available still in the gls trim?
Leasing is definately a bad deal unless you are doing it for business purposes or you get a great deal (which rarely happens, why do you think dealers push leases? They make a LOT of money on them!). Buying won't up your payment that much and you own it, so if it turns out to not be the car you want, you can sell it and not take too much of a loss (unless of course you didn't put much down). Either way, you will be making payments on the car in three years so why bother with a lease? Just buy, if it turns out to be a lemon, sell it, you will loose big time if you get out of your lease early. I have always bought my cars and will never lease. Leasing to me is just a way for someone to afford a car they can't really afford IMHO.
On another note, has anyone here bought the VW Jetta floor mats? The nice ones they sell in their catelog and you can get from the dealer? How much nicer are they than the ones that come stock? I want to replace ours, they are kind of chinchy, and was looking for some nice heavy ones like came in my Honda.
I have VW Jetta owner experience thank you very much. In the 4 months that I have had my car, it has been in the shop 4 times. The radio died, and there are incessant squeaks and rattles. If I have many years of this, I guess I won't be finding out anything about any VW, because I will not be owning one. Thank you.
I'm leasing my 1.8T and got a great deal. I lease because I am almost positive I'll get sick of the car by the time my lease is up (even though it is fabulous.) The upside to leasing is that you put down very little (or zero) cash, and your monthly payments are lower. I like leasing, and will probably do so until I have enough cash to buy straight out. But don't listen to me if you are leaning towards buying...I normally get yelled at for trying to convince people to lease.
Blueguy, I too was looking for a blue 1.8T w/leather and sport package, and was unable to find it in manual transmission. Argh! I ended up with a fully loaded green one, and now it's growing on me.
I agree, leasing can be an attractive alternative b/c of the lower payments and lower downpayment. My problem is that you don't own it on paper, you have no asset for all of your payments and even though a car is not an investment, you have no equity at all in a leased vehicle. I guess the other problem I have is that you always have a car payment, you never pay anything off, its like renting an apartment vs. buying a house.
I think the durability of a Gen IV Jetta will be better than a Gen III. I see plenty of Gen III's on the road still, as well as Gen II. Contrary to popular belief in this board, cars are actually getting MORE reliable and durable, not less. There is not a car out there that can't go for hundreds of thousands of miles. If I have said once, I have said it thousands of times: If something breaks, you get it fixed. Something breaking does not speak to durability and long term operations at all.
As far as JD Power - why do the masses tend to believe what others say? Statistical information is somehow better than personal information? I simply cannot grasp that concept. Never could. I trust myself far more than some group of other people.
I am tinting the windows on my silver Jetta once I get my taxes back!! YAY! Just in time for summer. Hopefully, the leather will cool down just a bit with the tint.
there is a topic in sedans about how writers and car mags are "paid off" to say certain things about cars. topic talks about the altima. seems i am not the only one that knows these publications, even CR and JD, get their bills paid somehow.....
for sure, C&D gets monthly checks from Honda and BMW. no doubt at all in my mind. none.
when i see a "new" jetta on the road, am i going to know it? does it look different than my 2002 at all?
You have made it crystal clear that you don't understand the concept. Maybe it's because you have so much pride in your Jetta. Which is a good thing. You're right, cars are getting more durable and reliable? But how would we know that without doing sampling?
So the new assertion is that someone has paid off JD Power and CR to say belittling things? CR doesn't take advertising money, so I guess they're getting it funnelled through free fries or some other dastardly method. JD Power is THE company that all auto manufactuers look to for proof of quality, customer satisfaction, etc. If JD Power to fudge facts about the Jetta, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot as their credibility would turn to muck, much like advertising based rags like Road and Track and Motor Trend. Power is NOT a magazine, it's research firm that provides data and consulting, go to the site and read for yourself.
Funny that you'd trust three Jetta owners talking about their cars over thousands of owners. Obviously your sampling is far from representative.
BlueGuy is right, CR doesn't take advertising money from anyone or free products. Also, they buy the cars they test from dealer stock just like a typical consumer does. The dealer doesn't know it's CR until the deal is done for the car.
There was someone in the Protege chat room a couple of weeks ago (a dealer) who said CR bought a Protege to test, and they didn't know until the end of the buying process.
Post some pics of your silver Jetta with the tints when it gets done.
I am thinking about getting the little "Wolfsburg" badges for under the fender turn signal lights for my car. I like they way they look on the WE. I don't know though. I did order a different badge for the back of it though. I am taking off the 1.8T badge and putting on one that says "20V" with the "V" in red (from the Bora). Also, getting "TURBO" in little letters to fit under the "20V". Saw it on vwvortex.com and thought it looked really neat. I am thinking about tints too, but not sure yet.
What planet are we on today folks? I think there is a global conspiracy against VW with regards to the press. Honda and Toyota are conspiring with numerous publications against VW and other have-not companies with regards to reliability ratings. Makes sense too because Honda and Toyota have so much money to spend on things like this. Did you know that BMW owns Car and Driver? Makes me wonder why GM isn't paying publications off. They certainly have the money for it, and they could use it.
Your reasons for not liking leasing are exactly why I like it. I don't want to be saddled with a car. I don't take pride in it being "mine." I understand what I'm paying for with each payment (use of the vehicle) and that's fine with me. I wouldn't say across the board "leasing is a bad idea unless you are doing it for business." It can be really good for some people. For example, my first leased vehicle was while I was in college. I desperately needed a new car, didn't have a lot to put down, wanted low payments, and didn't know where I'd be a couple years later. The lease was perfect.
That's enough from me on leasing.
A curb jumped out and bit my rim yesterday...it's a bit scraped up now. I was looking on the vortex for recommendations for places that can fix that. Does anyone know of a place in LA that can fix it, or has anyone sent their rims away for fixing?? I'm mad at myself--it's my first real boo-boo on my car.
My only problem with leasing is that whatever money you *saved* up front, will be charged to you at the end in the form of wear and tear fees, excess mileage fees, lease turn in fees and other nasty surprises usually reserved for the day you turn in the keys.
Leasing is like a revolving credit card account...you never ever finish paying off the balance, you never build up equity, you never own anything and instead you are saddled with never ending payments and higher insurance premiums.
I have leased once before and it was a pleasant experience at the end. I only drive less than 10K miles a year and keep my cars in pristine condition, yet I haven't had the desire to lease ever again.
I finance my cars for no longer than 36 months, usually paid them off in half the time and still get to enjoy a *fresh* and free and clear car until the end of the warranty period, or if I like it a lot I pay up for an extended warranty.
Even after 5 or 6 years of use, I'll have some equity in my old car, enough to put 5% or 15% on a new one.
In the mean time, for the years I don't make monthly payments, I make those payments to myself and put the money into an interest bearing savings account or other investments. When the time comes to replace my old car, I'll have enough to either pay for the new car in cash or at least give 50% down of the value on the new one.
I think this is the cheapest way to car ownership.
I have nothing against leasing per se, but leasing has been used as a trap by the car industry to get people into a new car more often and in the process bury them into never ending debt.
Leasing is great for businesses and other very special circumstances. Leasing is not for everyone and if often is more expensive than buying a car outright and keeping it for 4 or 5 years.
To me ownership is far more pleasurable than making fantastic $300 per month payments on a rented BMW 3 series, that doesn't belong to me.
Cars depreciate no matter what. Cars are no investments. Buy it new or used, you will always lose money. So then why waste more money by leasing?
Where are people getting 3 series bimmers for $300 a month? If that were so, sign me up! I'm spending $382 a month on my Jetta (I put almost nothing down...fees, deposit and first payment).
It's time to replace my recently deceased 81 Rabbit Diesel. I'd like to buy the base "GL" Jetta turbodiesel, but can only find GLS's. In fact, I looked at the VW online inventory for every dealer within a hundred mile radius (Detroit area) of my home and could not find one base turbodiesel. Has anyone seen one of these rare creatures anywhere?
The days of subsidized luxury car leases with no money down and $300 per month for 36 months are long gone!
Actually my 2 nearby BMW dealers in my area ask for $4-5K down to lease a new 325i for 39 months. Payment? around $350 plus tax per month. Not my cup of tea.
Leasing: Only a better deal if you swap cars frequently and are concerned about a car's reliability. Everything is as negotiable in a lease as in a buy. Can psychologically feel like you're always driving a rental, though : (
Buying: Great if you keep a car a long, long time and want to make modifications. Also great if you're buying something that's reliable. Pay cash unless interest rates are below what the S&P is returning.
To me, the best scenario is buying a new or used (3 years or older) car with cash and keeping it until the wheels fall off.
It all comes down to your money and whatever tickles your fancy. But like I said no car is investment (Exception: Exotics and high dollar classics or rare cars)so aside from wanting to have a new car every 2 or 3 years and "Reliability concerns" I don't see much benefit from the financial point of view to the regular individual.
car manufacturers and dealers love leasing because they can move product at a faster pace and at the turn around the corner, people will be coming back to buy more. If the manufacturers and dealers love something, you as a consumer, should be wary of it.
I still prefer ownership, keep a car for 4 to 6 years, enjoy it and then justify its depreciation by the use and service provided by it, then enjoy my next new car as an outright purchase.
I will take some pics when I get it done. Now I just have to find a reputable place. Not sure what shade would look best on silver. My black Jetta had "onyx" which is black, but with a little sheen. It was nice. But, since the silver already has the sheen, I wonder if a "flat" color would be better for contrast...
My 1985 Toyota Cressida Station Wagon will turn 17 in May, and currently has 207,000 miles on it....sure, the air conditioning hasn't worked in about 5 years, the radio goes out intermittantly (which doesn't matter because a stupid sophomore ripped my antenna off and I haven't reattached it yet), has a plain antenna instead of a retractable one because " I " accidentally tore it off years and years ago, tops out just around 105 mph (won't do 130 anymore), etc etc ad nauseam. However, it has been both reliable AND durable....with both VW's quality of construction and Toyota's legendary reliability. I just hope that I can trust my Passat somewhere near as well as I trust my Cressida.
Truthfully, I wouldn't keep a car that long, but my mother drove it till she got a 1997 Grand Caravan (and you wouldn't believe how many times she complains about the uncomfortable seats [compared to her Cressida], the inadequate radio [compared to her Cressida], you get the picture), and then it suffered through my sister and myself learning how to drive (she's 20, I'll be 17 in June).
Personally, I CAN'T WAIT for that 1999-2000 VW Passat GLS 1.8t with a stickshift that I'm gonna get in a couple of months.....but hey.....that Toyota's lasted the test of time. I've considered chipping the Passat (I'm fairly close to APR in Auburn, AL), but the longevity concerns me.....the Toyota's on her original engine and transmission, of course, and has never had anything really major fail. I definately wouldn't want to be a year or two out of college and have to replace the turbo.
But hey.....buy a 3 year old car, keep it 3 years, then sell. Works for me!
Check Virginia tint laws before you get it done. My friend in Md. had police pull her over for the tint being too dark (35% is the law in Md.), and they STRIPPED her tint right there on the spot. Made her car a darn mess. Also, when I got my Protege tinted (here in Md.), they made me sign a waiver saying they weren't responsible if my tint got stripped (it's a standard thing, because mine was the legal limit anyway).
I was thinking about getting my windows tinted too, to keep the interior cool this summer. I also want tinted taillamps too, but not sure yet. I do wanna get the scrape on my wheel fixed, and maybe buy an alloy wheel for my spare tire (instead of steel). Not sure yet though.
Yep, when I tinted the first Jetta, they wouldn't go as dark as I wanted. From what I hear, us Virginians have to go to Maryland if we want a dark tint. Here, they won't even do it with a waiver signed.
Does this include back windows? In CA i know you can have limo dark on the back windows, but the front 3 can only have a light tint. Or you must drop both windows when you get pulled over to avoid the ticket.
Here in MD, it's ALL windows. On the front, you can have that tint band if you want it though. But it can't go below that marking that's near the left and right roof pillars on all car windshields. (That's why that marking is there.) You can have NO tint on the windshield itself, except above that line I mentioned.
Is VW still making this item? I spoke with a rep. at VW Driver Gear who spoke with a Senior Rep. who stated that they don't have such an item. I gave them the item # 1JO 857 465 3PT.
Is it possible to purchase a similar item somewhere else?
Looking at a 2002 VW Jetta GLS 1.8T 5 spped manual with no options. Dealer is adding PA advertising assn. costs of +/- $300 NE emissions at $100 and 3% mark-up for fee. The dealer has to find the car and is saying he can't make any money because he has to pay someone to drive it. Has to inspect, assume he means State inspection, etc. Otherwise he'll part with a car on the lot (not favorite color) but has lux package and monsoon for advertising, emissions and $300 additional over invoice. Help
I don't know how far from Md. you are, but it might be worth a trip. The NE emissions is $100, but I don't know about the adv. price. It's not your fault they had to pay to ad the car, right? Also, he does not have to pay someone to drive the car, that's crap. There is someone paid by the dealer to do that. Try emailing different dealers in your area or close by and see what you come up with.
Comments
I'm sorry, but I have to take issue with your post about vw long-term reliability. Perhaps it's that I get tired of reading posts about VW bashing from people that don't have an iota of experience in VW ownership, or maybe I just feel the need to share my own experiences once in a while. I'm sorry I have to spew this out in your direction specifically, but I can't take it anymore.
Before my current Jetta, I owned an '85 Jetta turbodiesel (62 ponies). This car, to me, was the most miraculous thing on the road. I had at least 426,000 miles on it when I got rear ended by an explorer. (I say at least because the odometer cable was messed up for a while.) I drive a ton of miles, and because of it, I personally can attest to their long-term reliability and durability. I still got 47 mpg on the highway when it got smashed. 47 MPG!!! While this isn't a typical story of ownership, it is possible. For those of us who have a long-standing relationship with VW's and know the culture that loves them, we know others with similar experiences. What other automaker gives you a new car if you drive the old model enough? Did you know that there's a few Bugs that have run 1 million miles? How many 60's and 70's Beetles do you see around town? Now, how many other brands' vehicles do you see from the 60's running around town? This is what I'm talking about. My jetta compression tested within 0.2 psi of factory spec on all 4 cylinders at 250,000 miles!!!!
Did I have problems with that car at times? You bet I did! Did I perform a lot of maintainance? You bet I did! I changed more fluids than Jiffy Lube does in a year! I went through parts from time to time. But the point is the same. I know from experience that VW's are known in certain circles (though they're probably not employed by J.D. Power) to be extremely long-term durable.
It just kills me. How many people have told Teo that his Impala sucks and is a piece of junk? Many, many. Did this prove to Teo that his car is indeed inferior and in fact he should sell it now, and buy something else? Of course not. Nor should it. Most of the people bashing it have probably never even been in it, just as same as most of the people bashing VW have never driven one long enough to love it as some of us have.
People who have never owned a car longer than 5 years have no business telling others about the merits of certain brands' durability. Maybe 100k is long-term for some auto manufacturers and that's your reference. In my experience, not for VW.
BTW, I do own a VW Jetta.
We all need to remember that we ALL are entitled to our own opinions, and that each of our individual experiences do not a reputation make.
I can like the color yellow and someone else here can detest it.
Neither of us is right, and neither of us is wrong. We are simply being human and feeling and expressing our own preferences.
There is nothing wrong with that as long as we realize that our own preferences are just that - our OWN - and we do not expect everyone else in the world to feel the same way that we do.
Can we just chill here please?
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
And there is no need for the folks who have chosen this vehicle to react so defensively to those who did not/would not make the same choice. You had your own reasons for your decision, you love your vehicle, right? Why do you feel you must justify your personal choice to others who would follow a different path? Or to those who have had a very different experience with the same vehicle?
The bottom line is that you chose what made you happy, and it seems that most of you are still happy. Isn't that enough? Can't you let go of the fact that some Jetta owners have had problems and other folks are troubled by reports of reliability issues? If your Jetta is fine and you are generally happy with your decision, why do you care that others may see the vehicle differently?
We are going to STOP the arguments here.
It is not possible for me to babysit this discussion 24/7, which is what seems to be required here. If we cannot calm down, get back on subject and stay within the parameters of the Membership Agreement, this discussion is going to be closed.
Pat
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Sedans Message Board
What I was responding do specifically, is the discrediting of an individual who said that VW's have been known to be durable long-term. My experience is that this is true, and I felt the need to respond to the implication that this attitute was better suited for "another planet."
You may talk about "empirical evidence" all you want but you must admit to me that data generated over the last 3 model years by JD power says absolutely nothing about long-term durability. Your hostility is misplaced when you flaunt the numbers surrounding the newest generation of Jetta. I don't recall saying anything about the reliability issues surrounding MK IV Jetta in my post. That's why I sit here and digest others' experiences in their Mk IV, and don't try to tell them that their idiots for having their opinion. I value the opinions of those fellow VW Jetta owners in this forum. That's why I'm here.
While your attempt to discredit me by making snipe remarks such as "670000 miles in rush-hour traffic, only one headlight out,etc.," may have pleased you thoroughly, it deters me very little. I clearly mentioned that I replaced a lot of parts. I did a ton of maintainance. Obviously, a person has to do a lot of highway driving to rack up that kind of mileage. And while the JD power reference may have been a bit misplaced, I share only my opinions based on my personal experience. I'm posting based on my experience, which I should hope you do too, blueguy. Ironic that I do only what you do in your own posts, yet you attack me for it. Ironic, don't you think?
I took a monster rock the other day in my rain-sensor equipped jetta. Has anyone else had to replace a windshield on a GLX? I was thinking I'd take it to PPG, but then I remembered that the sensor is mounted on it. What's it cost to replace it, and do I need the dealer to do it?
The point of my hyperbole regarding the 670k Jetta with only one busted light wasn't to say that your car wasn't exceptionally reliable, only to make a point that people with odd anecdotes always pop out of the woodwork, relaying personal outlandish (probably truthful) experiences with a car as if that personal anecdote refutes statistical data. I did not in my last post in any fashion relate a personal experience with my Jetta. Even if my Jetta has been mechanically sound, that's not proof that the design is somehow good. The stats prove otherwise. I may have a good Jetta (based on major mechanical malfunctions), but that does not carry over for the model as a whole.
BTW, nothing I've written to you about the Jetta contains personal opinions. I've written figures JD Power generated after doing research and conducting surveys. The auto industry trusts JD Power and cites them whenever Power's stats make a model look good, such as the Jetta's being ranking one of the most desired compact sedans.
If I may be so bold, I would say that very few of new models/designs on the market will be as reliable long-term as their predecessors. It seems to me that the auto industry as a whole has become too reliant upon complex and rarely-fixable computer processes. Not a defense of the current Jetta issues, just my observations of the auto industry as a whole.
What did grandpa say, more parts means more things to go wrong?
Back to the Jetta...
I like the looks of them in dark blue with beige leather ; )
Yesterday, I test drove the following vehicles and had mixed feelings from all. Here are the results:-
2002 Acura RSX -> Not the Type-S because it was too much money for a car that looks like that
I was really disappointed with the handling and performance of the premium package one that I drove. Also, the internal compartment seemed a bit small and tight.
2002 Pontiac Grand Prix GT -> The buttons and gadgets was very similar to the older models, which was a huge turn off (was a previous owner of a '92 model). The ride was not too bad, but the weight of the car is very noticable. Was not able to test out the handling on it too well.
2002 Jetta GLS 1.8T -> LOVED IT. I have never drove a car like this before. I loved the maximum torque at low RPM output. The cars performance was immediate and very responsive. There is so much to say about this car, but I will go on and on and take up too much space, like I am already.
All in all, the other cars did very little for me, but when I walked away from driving the 1.8T, I was all smiles.
My choice should be very obvious right now, so all I need now is some advice on if I should lease or finace the 1.8T. Thinking about leasing because I have been reading up on the postings in this board and noticed that there are quite a bit of problems by car owners. One being the rattles, etc. Another reason is that I have been told that repairs, parts and maintenance are very high on Volkswagon vehicles.
Please advise. Open to opinions and if you can, please try to convince me more to buy it
Consider the great finance rates available and the fact that when you finance, every payment goes toward the principal. With leasing every payment barely drops the buyout price. I bought my Jetta 1.8T WE in June for about 19.5k and I've made 9 payments on the car thus far. You know what my buyout is...$18,745.70. How the blazes that works out is beyond my ken. Regardless, selling the car before the end of my lease will cost me several thousand dollars at this point as my Jetta can't possibly be worth more than 15-16k right now. Unless you get a tax write-off, or the car has an amazing lease deal, go with financing. But that's just my opinion.
if the grey is going to be discontinued, will there be a different color to replace it? i will not get a black interior, so is beige my only option?
also, if the monsoon sound system is not a stand alone option anymore, what option package will it be part of? it will be available still in the gls trim?
On another note, has anyone here bought the VW Jetta floor mats? The nice ones they sell in their catelog and you can get from the dealer? How much nicer are they than the ones that come stock? I want to replace ours, they are kind of chinchy, and was looking for some nice heavy ones like came in my Honda.
Blueguy, I too was looking for a blue 1.8T w/leather and sport package, and was unable to find it in manual transmission. Argh! I ended up with a fully loaded green one, and now it's growing on me.
As far as JD Power - why do the masses tend to believe what others say? Statistical information is somehow better than personal information? I simply cannot grasp that concept. Never could. I trust myself far more than some group of other people.
I am tinting the windows on my silver Jetta once I get my taxes back!! YAY! Just in time for summer. Hopefully, the leather will cool down just a bit with the tint.
for sure, C&D gets monthly checks from Honda and BMW. no doubt at all in my mind. none.
when i see a "new" jetta on the road, am i going to know it? does it look different than my 2002 at all?
Funny that you'd trust three Jetta owners talking about their cars over thousands of owners. Obviously your sampling is far from representative.
There was someone in the Protege chat room a couple of weeks ago (a dealer) who said CR bought a Protege to test, and they didn't know until the end of the buying process.
I am thinking about getting the little "Wolfsburg" badges for under the fender turn signal lights for my car. I like they way they look on the WE. I don't know though. I did order a different badge for the back of it though. I am taking off the 1.8T badge and putting on one that says "20V" with the "V" in red (from the Bora). Also, getting "TURBO" in little letters to fit under the "20V". Saw it on vwvortex.com and thought it looked really neat. I am thinking about tints too, but not sure yet.
That's enough from me on leasing.
A curb jumped out and bit my rim yesterday...it's a bit scraped up now. I was looking on the vortex for recommendations for places that can fix that. Does anyone know of a place in LA that can fix it, or has anyone sent their rims away for fixing?? I'm mad at myself--it's my first real boo-boo on my car.
Leasing is like a revolving credit card account...you never ever finish paying off the balance, you never build up equity, you never own anything and instead you are saddled with never ending payments and higher insurance premiums.
I have leased once before and it was a pleasant experience at the end. I only drive less than 10K miles a year and keep my cars in pristine condition, yet I haven't had the desire to lease ever again.
I finance my cars for no longer than 36 months, usually paid them off in half the time and still get to enjoy a *fresh* and free and clear car until the end of the warranty period, or if I like it a lot I pay up for an extended warranty.
Even after 5 or 6 years of use, I'll have some equity in my old car, enough to put 5% or 15% on a new one.
In the mean time, for the years I don't make monthly payments, I make those payments to myself and put the money into an interest bearing savings account or other investments. When the time comes to replace my old car, I'll have enough to either pay for the new car in cash or at least give 50% down of the value on the new one.
I think this is the cheapest way to car ownership.
I have nothing against leasing per se, but leasing has been used as a trap by the car industry to get people into a new car more often and in the process bury them into never ending debt.
Leasing is great for businesses and other very special circumstances. Leasing is not for everyone and if often is more expensive than buying a car outright and keeping it for 4 or 5 years.
To me ownership is far more pleasurable than making fantastic $300 per month payments on a rented BMW 3 series, that doesn't belong to me.
Cars depreciate no matter what. Cars are no investments. Buy it new or used, you will always lose money. So then why waste more money by leasing?
Just my opinion.
The days of subsidized luxury car leases with no money down and $300 per month for 36 months are long gone!
Actually my 2 nearby BMW dealers in my area ask for $4-5K down to lease a new 325i for 39 months. Payment? around $350 plus tax per month. Not my cup of tea.
I figure is cheaper to buy it outright.
Leasing: Only a better deal if you swap cars frequently and are concerned about a car's reliability. Everything is as negotiable in a lease as in a buy. Can psychologically feel like you're always driving a rental, though : (
Buying: Great if you keep a car a long, long time and want to make modifications. Also great if you're buying something that's reliable. Pay cash unless interest rates are below what the S&P is returning.
To me, the best scenario is buying a new or used (3 years or older) car with cash and keeping it until the wheels fall off.
Yes, I'm fiscally conservative ; )
car manufacturers and dealers love leasing because they can move product at a faster pace and at the turn around the corner, people will be coming back to buy more. If the manufacturers and dealers love something, you as a consumer, should be wary of it.
I still prefer ownership, keep a car for 4 to 6 years, enjoy it and then justify its depreciation by the use and service provided by it, then enjoy my next new car as an outright purchase.
Different strokes for different folks.
Truthfully, I wouldn't keep a car that long, but my mother drove it till she got a 1997 Grand Caravan (and you wouldn't believe how many times she complains about the uncomfortable seats [compared to her Cressida], the inadequate radio [compared to her Cressida], you get the picture), and then it suffered through my sister and myself learning how to drive (she's 20, I'll be 17 in June).
Personally, I CAN'T WAIT for that 1999-2000 VW Passat GLS 1.8t with a stickshift that I'm gonna get in a couple of months.....but hey.....that Toyota's lasted the test of time. I've considered chipping the Passat (I'm fairly close to APR in Auburn, AL), but the longevity concerns me.....the Toyota's on her original engine and transmission, of course, and has never had anything really major fail. I definately wouldn't want to be a year or two out of college and have to replace the turbo.
But hey.....buy a 3 year old car, keep it 3 years, then sell. Works for me!
I was thinking about getting my windows tinted too, to keep the interior cool this summer. I also want tinted taillamps too, but not sure yet. I do wanna get the scrape on my wheel fixed, and maybe buy an alloy wheel for my spare tire (instead of steel). Not sure yet though.
I gave them the item # 1JO 857 465 3PT.
Is it possible to purchase a similar item somewhere else?
Thanks
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=252464
Don't know if you guys are interested. The prices are decent though not earth shaking.
Help
I think you'll be happy with a 28mm. It doesn't cure the floaty springs, but it sure makes corners a lot nicer.
First the sway, then the Eibach lowering kit and finally an APR chip. figure for a touch over a grand maybe I can make the car as much fun as I want.