Spend the extra $100 and get an APR chip with the selectable programs. Then you can get warranty work done and not fret that the dealer will notice your chipping.
I agree that the 1.8T engine is very easy to chip and you could put in a chip that doesn't void the warranty (at least the dealer will not find out about it). However, any gain due to mods will be at the expense of drivability - you are more likely to have reliability problems, warranty issues, a more noticeable turbo lag, less linear acceleration, maxing out on RPM's faster, etc., etc. The 180-HP 1.8T has a bigger turbo, which is a MUCH better approach to gaining HP than chipping a smaller turbo. And then, you could use that better platform to chip your car at a much higher level if you wanted to so by the same logic, I could say "Yeah but I could chip our A4's 170 HP to 200 HP for the same amount of money that it will take you to chip the 150 HP engine and bump it up to my stock 170 HP". In the end, you have to go with the amount of power that is acceptable for you and silvertron did just that. With the amount of money he saved he got himself a few extra goodies to entertain him on the road ;o)
Um...okey dokey. The 1.8T in the 2002s have the same turbo as the 1.8Ts of 2001. The 2002s have slightly different programming and their plumbings slightly modifed. That's it. They didn't put the Passat/A4's 1.8T in the Jetta/Golf this year. They changed the exhaust and adjusted the chip. That's pretty much it. The turbo's the same.
>>However, any gain due to mods will be at the expense of drivability - you are more likely to have reliability problems, warranty issues, a more noticeable turbo lag, less linear acceleration, maxing out on RPM's faster, etc., etc. <<
Actually, daily drivability can be totally unaffected with the APR as you can have the car run stock settings and when you want the extra go juice, you simply switch programs on the fly. As for warranty issues, again this is avoided with the APR chip or by getting a second stock ECU. Acceleration is astronomically increased with either the GIAC or the APR. With an APR/GIAC chip, you go from 150 HP/155 lbs-ft of torque to 200/240. That's a substantial jump. Also, the engine's redline is changed but still this doesn't make a difference as ALL 1.8Ts drop quickly after 5500 RPM, so shift there, not at 6500.
An APR or GIAC chip makes the 1.8T have more useable power over the same powerband, resulting in dramatic gains in power and gas mileage. There's LESS lag with the chips actually. And when the torque kicks in, it KICKS in.
And we're suggesting that rather than silverton fret over not getting the 2002, he could drop a $600 chip into his 2001 and have FAR more power than the 2002 and still save about several Gs.
hmmmmm. Good idea. If my car turn out to be a good one and doesn't give me many problems, I definitely will consider chipping it. So, is $600 for everything? How do I install it? Sorry, I am very new about this. Thank you for any inputs.
the 2002 1.8T uses the same engine as the A4 and Passat. That doesn't make sense. The A4/Passat use a longitudal engine, while the Golf platform uses the transverse.
I found a review that mentions the mods to the 2002s: "But for 2002, it has new ECU (electronic control unit) software that revises ignition timing, fuel mixture and air intake; and a new, less restrictive exhaust system. Both of these contribute to a substantial 20% increase in horsepower and a 12% increase in torque."
Still wondering about this transverse v. longitudal thing. I know Edmunds mucks things up every now and then, so I'm not exactly trusting them. On Vortex I found this info in their reports, not forums:
"Volkswagen claims a less restrictive exhaust and ECU tuning (read boost increase) are responsible for the 20% increase in power."
For a long time now, when I am slowing down and going into a turn say at a light or somehting slowing down to about 10-15mph, and I release the brake, I'll hear a scraping type noise. I will also hear that noise when turning into a driveway whether my foot is on or off the brake. It's prety noticable and when I had taken it to the dealership, they said they didnt hear it but said sometimes the rear brkaing plates will scrape togethe ror somehting like that so they adjusted them but it still makes the sounds. It really sounds pretty bad, anyone got any ideas?
I'd e-mail you privately if I knew your e-mail and I don't want to birng up off topic subjects, but what the hell. Since you've been in the G35, how do you rate the interior in terms of quality. I know I should see it for myslef, and all and not listen to others but Edmunds says the interior quality is average, so how would you compare it to VW interior quality?(And I don't mean quality in temrs of rattles as we all know Infinity is good with those, I mean the quality of the materials used...)
and how do infinitis depreciate? I'm considering one as my next car when my lease is up in Feb 2004 but I need it to be about 25 thousand so of course it would have to be used...
The Jetta interior is maybe a bit nicer than the G's. It's a toss up. The leather in the G is nicer, but the center console's a hard, prominent plastic. The dash feels okay and the door panels feel better to me than my Jetta's, but the actual interior door handles and grab-handles are a hard, cheap plastic, totally pathetic when compared to a Jetta's. The G's glove boxes and such open rather roughly and without the smooth operation you're used to with a Jetta too. Additionally, the headliner feels chincy as all get out. Lastly, the instrument cluster is pretty sorry when compared to any VW and the G lacks telescoping!
Of course, on the flipside, the G's faster than a Jetta by a long shot and its handling even without the sports suspension, totally trounces it. Naturally interior volume's majorly different too.
As for resale, past Infiniti's blew for resale value and you could, if this one turns out like others, buy a 2 year old G for probably 60% of its MSRP. But that's assuming the G won't hold its value and I have a feeling these things will. They're the best car Infiniti's ever released in the US, so I expect it will hold its value better than previous Infinitis, but not like Bimmers do.
You like something about the Jetta BETTER than on the G35? Oh my god! I had to re-read that post like 3 times. I thought I was dreaming for a second there. Just kidding guy.
These companies think they're smart with their "undetectable" chips. I talked to the shop foreman the other day (he drove the car with me to listen for my rattle that they found). I was talking to him about chipping and all. He has a GTI now and a modified Corrado G60 with 400+hp. He told me if they wanna know if your car is chipped bad enough, all they have to do is check the boost levels for the turbo in the computer. If they are higher than factory spec, then you're screwed. He said, though, they would only do that given reason, like something major going wrong and having to be repaired. So think about that before chipping your car.
Another thing that you risk if you try to hide it from your dealer is them refusing your warranty service in the future. If you try to hide a chip, and they can't figure out what's wrong with your car, they call the regional VW rep. The rep is qualified to open your ECU box, and if he does and finds a chip, it puts a big red X on your record, and they can refuse your warranty service in the future.
If you get a chip, just be honest. It won't void your warranty if you tell the dealer about it, but you will have to pay for anything directly related to the chip, like replacing a Diverter Valve.
Somehow, I took the "new turbo noise filter" for a new turbo. Your point about more lag with larger turbos is also correct. I do, however, remember reading an article in European Car mag last year in which they chipped the A4's identical 150-HP engine and did not like any of the chips sufficiently to recommend them. Their conclusion was that a bigger turbo is a better approach than chipping the car. I will dig out that article at home if you need to know the exact issue. The 2002 model is only $600 more expensive than the 2001 model and that is an awesome deal!! You get 30 horses for $600 and these come with a warranty. As a reference, you pay 5-6 grand for the engine alone to gain 41 HP from the 325 to 330. As far as adding power through chipping, be careful how much power the car's platform can handle. There's something about a 400-HP FWD car that that doesn't excite me at all. Even with sticky lower profile tires, that car will be spinning its front wheels all the way to the ditch, that's if you can get it to move at all. Brakes and especially chassis are even more important issues - if you are going to upgrade your engine, you should seriously think about better suspension and brakes so the rest of the car would keep up with the engine. And prey that you never experience serious problems with the car or be prepared to do a lot of explaining to the dealer and/or pay out of you pocket for repairs.
APR and others offer a VAG tool that allows you to clear your engine codes before taking the car in. And if you're THAT paranoid about them discovering a chip, then just buy a GIAC and an extra stock ECU. Before you take the car in, swap them out. No big deal.
One last thing, chipping will not void your entire warranty. If a dealership tells you that, smile and walk away. He's lying to scare you. If you mod a part of your car, a dealer can try to claim that mod impacted another part but they can't deny warranty work across the board. Changing my exhaust will not negate VW's responsibility to say, fix a malfunctioned window. Any dealer who says otherwise is begging for a call from your lawyer.
I guess it's just me but 90 more lbs-ft of torque is well worth it, as that's the motivating factor for take-offs and bursts of speed. If I'm gonna keep this VW, I'd rather enjoy it. BTW, tonight my friends and I are slapping on my new Neuspeed 28mm rear swaybar. Can't wait!
Can we post 30 messages this afternoon at the Mazda Protege Sedan Board and break the 10,000 mark? Folks, I know we can! Every Jetta (Sedans Board) regular needs to post today! Come on Jetta owners help us out. We need to stay kinda on topic, however. Please help us break 10,000 posts by on 3:00 pm Friday 3/22/01!!!!
It's very difficult to know how many posts there have been about any individual topic, though. Remember how on our previous platform we had to archive topics after 500 or so posts? And now we don't have to do that anymore. So it isn't readily apparent how many total posts there may have been because it depends on how many iterations of the topic have been archived, and how many posts each of those had.
Anyhow, pardon the interruption, and please carry on! :-)
Hi, can anyone help with gearbox/diff' ratios on my 1994vw Vento (Jetta111) 1.8ltr. At 3500rpm only getting 78mhp. I would like to get 80mph @ 3000rpm. any ideas on ratios, or am I asking too much? Thanks Philg2
I'm not sure why those 2mph are a big deal for you, but maybe you should look on vwvortex. There are a lot more gear heads on there who probably could help you out.
I've only had the swaybar in a few hours but I thought I'd pass this along to anyone considering the $200-250 investment...do it. Wow. The car feels totally different. Inducing oversteer on a tight corner is actually possible now. The car's demeanor through lane changes, abrupt moves and all manner of cornering feels totally different, yet ride quality hasn't diminished. I find myself wanting to turn or cut across lanes just so I can feel the car. It's like an all new Jetta. Now for the chip.
Hey where did you get your swaybar? Did you install it yourself? I'm interested in fine tuning the handling of my Jetta. I'm even considering lowering it but afraid I might screw up the warranty.
my 82 Diesel probably needs to be retired too since a few items related to comfort are not working. I don't want to spend any money doing maintenance not essential to operation for the car since it is a spare car and comes in handy when you have to take another to the shop. However I do drive it on a regular basis.But it sure is as reliable as the sunrise. I wouldn't want to buy a used TDI. I would be worrying about how well the car was maintained. Anyway I've kind of migrated to the Mazda camp with my purchase of a Protege and might be looking at their new offerings.
I got it through a group buy at VWVortex. It's a 28mm Neuspeed.
My friends and I installed it yesterday. It took us about an hour. One thing's for certain, the included instructions are pretty poor. I'd say we spent the majority of the time figuring out what we were supposed to do, rather than physically acting upon the car.
And no, it won't void your whole warranty. There does exist a slight possibility that if something goes wrong with the suspension a dealership may claim your swaybar is the culprit. Even if that is their claim, the dealership would only refuse to service the afflicted region, not the whole of your car. They're not able to say, "You've got a swaybar, so we're not fixing your turbo that blew up." It doesn't work that way.
The swaybar is probably the best mod you could do for the Jetta. I wish I'd done that on my '97 VR6. The guy that I sold it to had a 105-HP '90 GL and he could easily keep up with me in corners because of the swaybar he'd put in ;o)
It's been very entertaining and informative scanning through this board and reading 300-400 of the latest posts. I feel like I know some of you guys now : ). I am looking to buy a car, and the Jetta is/was my front-runner, mostly due to performance and its beautiful design/comforts. Looking at a 1.8T GLS with all the packages.
I am, however, quite unnerved by some of the nightmare entries in the Edmunds customer opinion section, about non-stop repairs and unscheduled trips to fix power windows, sunroof, trunk, locks, oxy sensor, etc. that some of these require. I could save money and mileage by going with the new 03 Corolla Type S, which is also a nice looking car (though without any of the speed/handling performance of a Jetta). That's kind of where I satnd on the whole thing after driving them both.
I'd love to hear some typical stories regarding the type of unscheduled service needed and the dealership experience, and maybe some anecdotal evidence about whether repairs every few months is "pretty much commonplace" for 1999/2000/2001 Jetta owners. That would be a strong factor in my decision to start to look at other things like the Acura RSX and the Civic, or on the higher end at the A4 and BMW 3-series. Thanks!
My car hasn't had any major issues. Just rattles. Some new reports claim the 2001s are at least average, if not above average for reliability. The 2002s have a better warranty and it seems the major bugs (failing windows, 02 sensors, etc) have been removed.
Of course, you caught me on a weekend where I'm in love with my car.
Thank you Mark for guilding me to the vwvortex site. I wanted to get the extra 2mph at 500prm less. Should find something here. btw my GM Vectra does 105mph @3000rpm. I know we got 70mph seed limit here, but on a nice clear road...well. Thanks again for info.....Philg2
My 2002 1.8T has been just fine for 7000 miles since September. I traded in a 1998 Honda Accord Coupe that was very nice and reliable, but boring to drive. It had to be floored to squeeze any power out of it. I liked the sleek looks of it, however.
I bought the Jetta, not because I really needed a new car, but because I drove it and loved it. I enjoy the heck out of it every time I drive. I suppose I think it's worth the greater risk of problems to have a more enjoyable driving experience.
my 02 is fine at 6k miles. it rattled and the dealer fixed the rattle with some "foils" - read, Scotch tape
you should test drive the jetta for about 30 minutes. drive on roads that you drive everyday. see how you like it. they don't compare to a corolla that well, so it is apples and oranges. i don't think too many people cross shop a corolla and a jetta, do they?
most people say that the toyota is much more reliable than the jetta, so if reliability/staying out of the shop is a major concern, i would recommend the toyota/honda/nissan cars.
Thanks blueguydotcom and everyone's input on the chipping. I went to read the posts at vwvortex to see how every one likes the chip. IMO, there is nothing to lose, so I am considering chipping my car. Fortunately, one vwvortex member was selling his car and his apr ecu. So, I got it for $350 for APR ECU with 3 programs (93 octane, stock, throttle body alignment) & error code/CEL reset. I was planning to negotiate a little but there were couple guys wanting it too. Anyway, we will be swapping our ECU this weekend. Can't wait BTW, is there anything I should check before putting it in my car? For example, a car has a vin number so we can check if it's a lemon. Is there such a number for the chip.
In a previous post by Galogvi on 3/11/02, he recommended using "x-tream rubber weatherseal" on the doors to help fix the chronic rattle problem. At this point I will try anything. Where do you purchase this product? Is it for cars or home use etc.? If someone can give some info it would be very appreciated. thanks.
...Remember me from the BMW 3-series forum. My wife's been thinking of getting a Jetta later this year. If we do, my preference is for the 1.8T. Since I've always enjoyed reading your posts on the 3-series for their honest opinions, I was wondering what your impressions were on the 1.8T
I finally measured the oil consumption in our Jetta after the last oil change. Its a 2000 with the 2.0L. Its less than I thought. After 3000 miles, it was down 3/4 of a quart. Thats not bad at all. It has 38000 miles on it. The consumption went down after I switched to Mobil 1 5w30 syn. What was weird however is that there is an orangish, cheese-like gunk on the underside of the oil filler cap. What gives? I recently recieved a recall notice for the car for the emissions system, specifically the O2 sensor. I have noticed the my mpg has dropped from about 32 overall to about 29 which could mean the O2 sensor is going bad, but no check engine light yet. I wonder if something in the emissions system to be causing the crankcase to not vent properly and that is causing the gunk, or is this "normal".
That would be the car I'd get for <20K. Plenty of power, best warranty and safety features, good build quality and a very supple ride. My cousin just got one for $200 over invoice from Bernardi's in Natick. Good luck.
I just picked up my new 1.8T GLS....I bought this car for my son...and plan on giving it to him for his birthday...next week...I have driven it for about two days...and really impressed...I am so glad I got the 1.8T....what a great accleration...especially getting onto interstate from ramps...great car...one small problem...the seal on the headlamp is leaking...condensation and water droplets inside the unit..hopefully its a matter of replacing the entire unit...VW has come a long way...just wanted to share this ...
This is what I started using about 6 months ago to eliminate the noise which occurs between the wide 1" thick black roof seal and the doors. Its called GM Silicone Emulsion Part #10953014. Bought it from the GM dealer in my area for $7.00 and it works great! Open all the doors and apply it to the upper roof weatherseal that runs from the front 'A' pillar at the front doors along the roof to the upper corner of the rear doors, leave the doors open for 15 minutes to allow the silicone to soak into the rubber material. Apply it every month and those noises will be gone forever! Thought I had a tinny rattle in the front passenger door or right corner of the dash but it was in the upper light above the sun visor, when you pull down the sun visor, the light is in the roof. Tap it with your finger and if it rattles, carefully pull it out and you'll find a loose retainer clip. You can fix it yourself or bring it back for service. Check both lights above the sun visors. My white 2001 WE has 12,000 miles and its very reliable, excellent performance and gas mileage is 24 city and 32 highway.
I do the same thing but I use BMW's Gummi Pfelge about 7.50 from a BMW dealership and it takes care of it but lately it has'nt been working all to well. But now that those loud as hell creaks are gone, all I can hear are my cupholders, dash, tweeter areas, and chrome area around the automatic shift elver rattling. Noisy noisy car.
I went and took my car to have the rattling dash parts replaced in it last night (they had to order them), and they gave me a 2002 Maxima as a loaner car. It's pretty nice, but I still prefer my Jetta 1.8T. The Max's steering is too heavy for me, and the car doesn't feel as nimble. Also, the driver's seat is not as comfy as my Jetta's, and I miss the heated seats that I have. On the plus side, the power in the Max is something else. It needs traction control though, because wheel spin is a big problem, as is torque steer.
Have you ever driven a Maxima? It does not take much at all to make the wheels spin. I was making a left turn last night, and hit the gas kinda hard to get started. I broke the left front tire loose immediately. Traction control would fix this problem completely.
You forgot the most important reason you missed your Jetta. The Maxima was hit, really really hard, with the ugly stick. That back end....nightmare-ish.
Actually, I kinda liked the styling of the Maxima. This particular car was white though, and it looked huge. The taillamps don't do anything for me, but they are not as bad as the new Altima's are. I am glad to have my Jetta back though.
Comments
>>However, any gain due to mods will be at the expense of drivability - you are more likely to have reliability problems, warranty issues, a more noticeable turbo lag, less linear acceleration, maxing out on RPM's faster, etc., etc. <<
Actually, daily drivability can be totally unaffected with the APR as you can have the car run stock settings and when you want the extra go juice, you simply switch programs on the fly. As for warranty issues, again this is avoided with the APR chip or by getting a second stock ECU. Acceleration is astronomically increased with either the GIAC or the APR. With an APR/GIAC chip, you go from 150 HP/155 lbs-ft of torque to 200/240. That's a substantial jump. Also, the engine's redline is changed but still this doesn't make a difference as ALL 1.8Ts drop quickly after 5500 RPM, so shift there, not at 6500.
An APR or GIAC chip makes the 1.8T have more useable power over the same powerband, resulting in dramatic gains in power and gas mileage. There's LESS lag with the chips actually. And when the torque kicks in, it KICKS in.
And we're suggesting that rather than silverton fret over not getting the 2002, he could drop a $600 chip into his 2001 and have FAR more power than the 2002 and still save about several Gs.
Thank you for any inputs.
GIAC's chips are cheaper but lack the stock program option.
I found a review that mentions the mods to the 2002s: "But for 2002, it has new ECU (electronic control unit) software that revises ignition timing, fuel mixture and air intake; and a new, less restrictive exhaust system. Both of these contribute to a substantial 20% increase in horsepower and a 12% increase in torque."
http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrives/02jetta1pt8t.htm
Still wondering about this transverse v. longitudal thing. I know Edmunds mucks things up every now and then, so I'm not exactly trusting them. On Vortex I found this info in their reports, not forums:
"Volkswagen claims a less restrictive exhaust and ECU tuning (read boost increase) are responsible for the 20% increase in power."
Of course, on the flipside, the G's faster than a Jetta by a long shot and its handling even without the sports suspension, totally trounces it. Naturally interior volume's majorly different too.
As for resale, past Infiniti's blew for resale value and you could, if this one turns out like others, buy a 2 year old G for probably 60% of its MSRP. But that's assuming the G won't hold its value and I have a feeling these things will. They're the best car Infiniti's ever released in the US, so I expect it will hold its value better than previous Infinitis, but not like Bimmers do.
If you get a chip, just be honest. It won't void your warranty if you tell the dealer about it, but you will have to pay for anything directly related to the chip, like replacing a Diverter Valve.
Trying to defraud the dealer isn't prudent, IMO.
One last thing, chipping will not void your entire warranty. If a dealership tells you that, smile and walk away. He's lying to scare you. If you mod a part of your car, a dealer can try to claim that mod impacted another part but they can't deny warranty work across the board. Changing my exhaust will not negate VW's responsibility to say, fix a malfunctioned window. Any dealer who says otherwise is begging for a call from your lawyer.
I guess it's just me but 90 more lbs-ft of torque is well worth it, as that's the motivating factor for take-offs and bursts of speed. If I'm gonna keep this VW, I'd rather enjoy it.
A sincere thank you in advance.
-Larry
Folks they already have gotten to that 10000 mark, so they dont' need any more help, thank you very much! :-)
Is there a prize?
It's very difficult to know how many posts there have been about any individual topic, though. Remember how on our previous platform we had to archive topics after 500 or so posts? And now we don't have to do that anymore. So it isn't readily apparent how many total posts there may have been because it depends on how many iterations of the topic have been archived, and how many posts each of those had.
Anyhow, pardon the interruption, and please carry on! :-)
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
My friends and I installed it yesterday. It took us about an hour. One thing's for certain, the included instructions are pretty poor. I'd say we spent the majority of the time figuring out what we were supposed to do, rather than physically acting upon the car.
And no, it won't void your whole warranty. There does exist a slight possibility that if something goes wrong with the suspension a dealership may claim your swaybar is the culprit. Even if that is their claim, the dealership would only refuse to service the afflicted region, not the whole of your car. They're not able to say, "You've got a swaybar, so we're not fixing your turbo that blew up." It doesn't work that way.
I am, however, quite unnerved by some of the nightmare entries in the Edmunds customer opinion section, about non-stop repairs and unscheduled trips to fix power windows, sunroof, trunk, locks, oxy sensor, etc. that some of these require. I could save money and mileage by going with the new 03 Corolla Type S, which is also a nice looking car (though without any of the speed/handling performance of a Jetta). That's kind of where I satnd on the whole thing after driving them both.
I'd love to hear some typical stories regarding the type of unscheduled service needed and the dealership experience, and maybe some anecdotal evidence about whether repairs every few months is "pretty much commonplace" for 1999/2000/2001 Jetta owners. That would be a strong factor in my decision to start to look at other things like the Acura RSX and the Civic, or on the higher end at the A4 and BMW 3-series. Thanks!
Of course, you caught me on a weekend where I'm in love with my car.
I bought the Jetta, not because I really needed a new car, but because I drove it and loved it. I enjoy the heck out of it every time I drive. I suppose I think it's worth the greater risk of problems to have a more enjoyable driving experience.
My wife loves the seat heaters. :^)
you should test drive the jetta for about 30 minutes. drive on roads that you drive everyday. see how you like it. they don't compare to a corolla that well, so it is apples and oranges. i don't think too many people cross shop a corolla and a jetta, do they?
most people say that the toyota is much more reliable than the jetta, so if reliability/staying out of the shop is a major concern, i would recommend the toyota/honda/nissan cars.
Fortunately, one vwvortex member was selling his car and his apr ecu. So, I got it for $350 for APR ECU with 3 programs (93 octane, stock, throttle body alignment) & error code/CEL reset. I was planning to negotiate a little but there were couple guys wanting it too.
Anyway, we will be swapping our ECU this weekend. Can't wait
BTW, is there anything I should check before putting it in my car? For example, a car has a vin number so we can check if it's a lemon. Is there such a number for the chip.
Thank you
My white 2001 WE has 12,000 miles and its very reliable, excellent performance and gas mileage is 24 city and 32 highway.
Meade
You forgot the most important reason you missed your Jetta. The Maxima was hit, really really hard, with the ugly stick. That back end....nightmare-ish.