BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

unboringuy

Well, the dealer in Dayton was ready for me, so I picked up 330xi #2 today. I've had it about 6 hours, and even got stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, with no movement of the temperature gauge whatsoever. I guess those Bosch's really work!

Question, though for anyone who knows (Guru?):

I got the BMW alarm system, dealer installed. And although this isn't a major problem, the system makes a wimpy little tone when being armed or disarmed. I'm used to the more boisterous sound of the alarm on the 1999 loaner that the dealer gave me. The beauty of that sound is that when you can't find your car in a crowded parking lot, you simply disarm your alarm, and follow the rather loud and distinctive noise.

Can the sound emitted from the alarm system when arming or disarming be changed? (Wish I had listened to it at the dealer).

In response to kiski, I gave both Cincinnati dealers an opportunity to meet or beat the Dayton price, and one went $1000 under MSRP (about $3000 over invoice) and the other went $1200 under MSRP. And the second one tried to convince me that it was worth paying about $1000 more to him because of the value he adds. Amazing!

tenet1

For those in the market for a 325i with some decent options - What sort of prices are you getting ovcer invoice??

Just curious to know what is the going price over invoice for 325i's at this time.

Any Comments??

shopshop

[also posted on A4 board]

I'm also trying to decide on a 330i or the A4.

Here is my analysis so far:

330i:
35,100 invoice
38,500 MSRP

Moon, Sport, Xenon, Lux Package, Steptronic

A4:
34,000 invoice
37,500 MSRP

Moon, Sport, Xenon, Leather, Tiptronic

Most likely prices IMHO:
330i 37,100 (2k over invoice)
A4 34,500 - 35,000 (500 to 1,000 over invoice)

I actually like driving the 330i better due to its better low-end power. I am also concerned that the A4 will take a hit with the impending model change. All that said, the A4 is a great car and I would get a somewhat better deal, also due to the impending model change.

Any thoughts?

bmw323is

I have a 2000 323 and I suppose it is much like the 325 (mine has less HP but more torque). When I bought the car I didn't want to pay the $4,000 extra for a few more HP (in my case 23 more for the 328). The car is fast and it is true that keeping the revs above 3,000 RPM certainly helps. But it's not a Corvette and it's not a V8. I love the car, but I have always second guessed whether I should have moved up a step. I look at it this way - if I HAVE to have more power I could add performance mods (for less than $4,000). Additionally, when I buy my next BMW I have something different to buy without moving to a 5 series.

Don't worry - be happy. You'll love whatever you buy.

shopshop

[also posted on A4 board]

I'm also trying to decide on a 330i or the A4.

Here is my analysis so far:

330i:
35,100 invoice
38,500 MSRP

Moon, Sport, Xenon, Lux Package, Steptronic

A4:
34,000 invoice
37,500 MSRP

Moon, Sport, Xenon, Leather, Tiptronic

Most likely prices IMHO:
330i 37,100 (2k over invoice)
A4 34,500 - 35,000 (500 to 1,000 over invoice)

I actually like driving the 330i better due to its better low-end power. I am also concerned that the A4 will take a hit with the impending model change. All that said, the A4 is a great car and I would get a somewhat better deal, also due to the impending model change.

Any thoughts?

bmw323is

Anyone read the Edmunds comparison of entry level luxury sport sedans. Tested nine cars and the 330i came in second (by a slim margin). When you read the reviews it's clear as a bell that the BMW was the absolute winner. They gushed over it in every respect. I had to break out the Kleenex. IMO, they just decided to give BMW a kick in the [non-permissible content removed] for the changing to the light steering (the Ultimate Shopping Machine) and rate them #2 (don't ever try that again!). Wouldn't it be great to be a fly on the wall at their design headquarters and see what the big guys are saying about all this. Who knows, maybe light steering really is selling more cars. The sales numbers are sure there!

Anybody else with thoughts on this? Guru, can you comment or do you have to take the 5th?

trejos28

Happy 4th everyone.

yeeeha

white 330, and I thought they looked nice. Would like to get y'alls opinions on clears for a black/black 325. Really not trying to be anal about this, but I have never seen them on a black vehicle. How do they look? Do clears look better on some colors than others? Are the amber lens' more appropo for a black car? Am I starting to sound rice-boyish????

Also posted awhile back about installing the armrest. What is the hassle-factor? Is this a job for the dealer? Is this a no-brainer? Standing by for your comments....(at least for awhile)

gr8st8

unboringuy:
congrats on the second edition of your 330xi.
Good to hear the fan really does work now...:)
My car is on the list of VINs of cars to be recalled regarding the supposedly faulty aux fan, but I already have about 4000 miles on my car and I wonder why it has never had any problems so far if it's really faulty?

gurumike:
just happened to spend some time last week in Santa Barbara and I have to say it's one cool town!

dl7265

I am in Dallas, unfortunatly all the road construction is taking a bite outta my front corner lenses (. I don't really need the rear's, lemme know what u think is fare if u want to part with them. You can email me at SilverT323@aol.com ....

Regards,
DL

mudddd

I too have the sticky gas pedal. At times, it feels like there are notches from which I must choose a position for the gas pedal as opposed to the smooth movement I'd expect. Pretty irritating. I have a manual 01 325i with about 3000 miles on it. I've had the problem from day 1. Love the car otherwise. Cruising and passing on the highway are joys and the twisties are fun fun!!

I've been listening to this board patiently for more info on the sticky pedal. I plan to have the dealer look at it whenever I take the car in for the aux fan recall.

frank69m

We can't see your pictures.

Your weblogic server is having problems.

You know what business I'm in if I can tell you that.

M3 Frank

frank69m

I think that weiner aculex is finally gone. What a bone head. He didn't even answer my question about the link. He doesn't answer all the questions posed to him. He says he doesn't own an IS300, then what does he own? His profile says he owns a Lexus? ES300 Yuk! GS300 even worst! Did he lie yet again. I personally think he owns a

Geo Metro that says Mugen Power on the top, is turbo charged with 20" RIMS and says Powered by Chevy on the side.

M3 Frank

gurumike

it's a '90 ES250 with gold package and chrome wheels.

frank69m

Here he is:


ACULEX Twin Turbo 90 Civic

frank69m

Back to business.

I'm thinking of getting my girlfriend the standard BMW Alarm for around $225 for the 330i I gave her. Questions:

Does it have a motion sensor?

Does it have a glass breakage sensor?

Is it easy to install or should I pay BMW to do it?

One dealership tried to charge me $300 for it, but I know you can get it at circle for around $225

M3 Frank

dantlo

Mudddd,let us know what the dealer does when you take the car in for the pedal.

I think it is sometimes irritating and also dangerous because you get very rough acceleration when it sticks. This is getting interesting now that even manual shift has the same problem. I wonder what Brave1heart and shipo think.

Thanks Dan

cnyxi

Gurumike:

It's a steel blue/sand leatherette (manual) 325xi, PP, CD, HS. Going to Endicott, NY. Scheduled for week 27. Hopefully it's not really status 105. If more info is needed, please let me know.

Thanks in advance.

kiski

Without a doubt it sounds like we were talking to the same people. I do respect sales people who stick to their prices and try to sell value. However, this is two recent sales in one dealership that walked away. In the end though, I guess they will sell all of their cars without us.

Congratulations on the 330xi. I debated the awd/rwd drive issue for many weeks before doing the 330i.Did you see the review in the Cinti paper (It might have been Chicago Trib) where they talked about the differences in handling between the two cars? Keep us posted on how you are enjoying the performance and handling.

unboringuy

Just curious about tires. Since I have the 330xi, I am supposed to have "All Weather Performance" tires. My first 330xi had Continental tires. The one I got yesterday had Goodyear tires (Eagle RS-A to be precise). Any comments on the pros and cons of these tires? I've always heard that Contis were excellent tires, and have never heard anything terribly good about Goodyear tires. In fact, I didn't realize BMW used Goodyear. Thoughts, anyone?

By the way, anyone interested in a 330xi, low miles (less than 1,000), never been titled...I know of a dealer in the midwest that has one in stock at a good price. Yep, number one is still there and available for purchase! I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a service loaner.

kiski

Does anyone know if the Edmunds' review refers to the most recent version (new - old, I think)of the 3 series steering? Are they essentially still critcizing it compared to the steering in the '99's?

willyglee

I think Edmunds is behind the curve. My dealer made a special effort to indicate that BMW has 2001.5 versions of 3 series that were configured to address the steering criticism as well as to improve on feature packages, etc. Things like - all 330s have sport suspensions and all 330s have 17" rims etc. All sport packages come with the new M3 wheel, which I have. Did you check out the idiot Jeff's comments (now posted on Edmunds at 330 main page). He is entitled to his opinion, but he obviously wouldn't appreciate a better bottle of wine or understand why people buy anything but point-and-shoot cameras. I have had five Hondas in the last ten years - give me a break - there is no comparison in the fun category - they are miserable but well made vehicles.

snooky2x

Thanks for your insight. I feel much better now.

tenet1

For those in the market for a 325i with some decent options - What sort of prices can we expect getting over invoice??

Just curious to know what is the going price over invoice for 325i's at this time.

Any Comments??

jbeckr

I have read that BMW is changing the content level of the 3-series, and is going back to a higher-effort steering. Am not sure if that has already happened, or is part of 2002 models, etc.
Any info here?

kiski

I thought this to be the case as I also waited to purchase until the steering was changed. However, I did not want to presume in view of the fact that the Edmunds' comparison appeared to be recently updated and they made no mention that their largest criticism (excluding price)had been corrected.

I agree with what you say regarding Honda's My wife's 2001 Accord is a very good car for what it does. (I am glad she has it so I can use it on those 10 snowy days - this allowed me to save money and not get the 330xi) My Lexus is also good within its purpose. However, they are not BMW's and do not offer the intrinsic reward that aficionados crave.

I also agree with you regarding wine and cameras; you can add high end audio gear, and watches, etc. to the list as well.

nelson186

I just placed an order for a Titanium 330i with SC, moon roof, CD, xenon. My car is scheduled for week 28 production!

Anyone on the fence between a 325i and 330i should consider that lease rates on the 330i are very similar despite higher sticker price. 330i was .0021 FM and 62% residual vs .0033 FM and 61% residual for the 325i. (I don't know if these rates are the same for July.) The 330i is well worth the extra $20/om IMHO.

Also, if you plan to lease the extra security deposits are the way to go (especially if you have equity in a trade). I'm saving $2k over the 3 year lease by making the extra 9 security deposits (approx. 15% return with no tax).

Like others on this board, I also considered a IS300 or A4 but felt the 330i is well deserving of its title as the "Ultimate Driving Machine". Can't wait for delivery...

gurumike

frank69m - yes it has motion sensors, they're already in the car. That box with the front & rear facing vents in the roof behind the sunroof (or in the middle w/out roof) contains the motion sensors. They build all of the cars at the factory with them. There is a "shock sensor" which does the job of a window break sensor. And yes, you need to have the dealer install it.

cynix - Your car is on order, in "111" status, meaning there's at least a week to two weeks before it even starts production. Remind me again in about three weeks.

tenet1 - $1,500 to $2,000 over should be doable, depending on where you live..

nelson186 - Firstly, it's "MF", not "FM"! "money factor"; Frequency Modulation (FM) is more of a radio issue!. The 330 sedan still has a 0.0021 MF, lower rates have been introduced on 325 sedan and 330 coupe (around 275, I forget exactly, I'll check). If anyone is considering a CPO E46 (99 or 00), BMW FS just announced some ridiculous lease rates (even lower than the 330 sedan!!!) so now's a good time to lease a used 3.

hippo168

I just got a VIN for my car!!!

One question though... I have an "F" as the assembly plant code and according to the e46fanatics FAQ "VIN decoder", it means my car will be produced in Munich OR in Dingolfing. Where exactly is Dingolfing?

I guess e46fanatics made a mistake on the table??

pat

just published on Edmunds.com about entry level sport sedans (mentioned earlier in this discussion) is linked in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page. If you haven't seen yet, check it out.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

gurumike

Shame it's so out of date that the few items the testers knocked the BMW for are all not available. Their main issues seem to be the lack of power seats, which have been standard since March production, my new car had them at no extra charge; the "light steering", updated in April (?) and there was some talk of the stereo, Harman Kardon was also made standard in March.

It really seems a shame that an authority such as Edmunds, who's service individuals use to guide them in the direction of a good decision, is totally misleading and there is no reference I could see to point out these differences.

I think a 330i with leather (and all the other standard equipment) comes in around $36,000 and as such is only a little more $$$ than the "first place" pick.

Edmunds - Are you really doing your readers a "service" with an out of date, misleading review that suggests that a front wheel drive car with a transversely mounted engine (and thou shalt drive an automatic) could really be to more enjoyable pick in the "junior sport sedans" segment. If you must cling to your "to hell with engineering, I want my bells and whistles" approach, surely a 325i would have been a far more logical pick. No one really cares that one does zero to sixty in point something of a second quicker, it's about the way it feels.

I've had many opportunities to drive all of those cars, in controlled, off highway situations. The only cars as competent as the 3 are MBZ's new C class and, surprisingly, the Audi A4. The X type Jag is also a contender but not yet available.

My advice would be to either completely remove the article on the grounds that it will serve only to confuse and mislead your readers, or at the very least add an addendum that totally clarifies the fact that you can't buy a 3 series like the one you reviewed and complained about.

How about having your writers read our board for some facts before publishing this type of article.

pat

Great comments - please pass them on to the Edmunds editors. One way to do that is to follow the "Help" link at either the top right or bottom right of this page. You'll find a link from which you can provide this feedback.

And let us know if you hear anything in response.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

lisampls

I'm new to the board and have just started my research on BMW and Audi. I test drove an A4 2.8T on Monday, and a 330i yesterday. I felt the drive was better on the 330, but the price was much higher.
Where did you buy from in Mpls? Sears or Motorwerks? What model did you get? I'm concerned about winter driving and would feel more comfortable with AWD. Any suggestions or comments?
Thanks! Lisa

blaketag

Recent posts by both of you indicate that recent production 330's w/SP include power seats and the M steering wheel as std. equipment. I take delivery on a June production 330i in a few weeks. If these 2 items are now std. equipment that would be great! I was planning on buying the M steering wheel as an add-on, so if it's now included that will save me some cash. Could either or both of you confirm for me if I should expect these 2 items as std. equipment. Thanks!

Happy 4th everyone!

Tom

alpine325i

speed14

I am thinking of purchasing a 325xi or 325i I live in a snow climate can I get away with the 325 rwd with traction and stability control instead of the xi?

tenet1

Thanks for your advice regarding the prices.

I have another question regarding ordering a 325i. My dealer told me that I could order a new car or modify an existing vehicle that they have on order already (that is still in the 110 stage???. This would get me delivery sooner.

Do you suggest ordering from scratch or is it just as good to modify an existing vehicle that they have on order?? Why would they have spare 325's on order if they never carry invenory?

Please advise. I apreciate your comments.

aaron330i

The end result is exactly the same. if you can modify an existing 110 order, that's all the better for you! Do it!

willyglee

I don't want to mislead so here's a little more clarity on standard versus optional. For perspective I have a new 2001.5 330i with the sport and premium packages. I also went for the auto transmission but I am 40 with young kids and drive in traffic (not to mention numerous knee surgeries). A free hand can help! The sport auto mode and the manual shift work and feel excellent. I also added xenon lights, which are a must in my opinion. The standard package does include 17" wheels but they aren't the M wheels. The sport package gets you upgraded seats, the M series 17" wheels, the sport steering wheel, and I believe a slightly different rocker panel trim for a spottier look. The new standard package does include the HK system, but as a serious audio buff, it's nothing to brag about. Yes, the Lexus-Mark Levinson systems sound better but I prefer the BMW engine purr - after all that's what it's all about! The IS300 is simply an uncomfortable Japanese bargain thing. The GS 300, while growing on me, is just not the road feel I wanted and it's 5 series+ expensive. The Audi product is great, but everyone really wants the bimmer - so get it and enjoy! I concur will guru mike on the Edmunds article - thanks for his insight and for being a valued contributor to this forum.

bavmon

Looking at 1999 328i. Unfortunately I live smack dab in the middle of snow belt, Detroit to be exact. How does these kinds of cars, front engined + RWD handle in snow/slush + rough pavements? Target options: Sport Package, manual tranny.

Heard of owners putting snow tires on, does that help?

gurumike

bavmon - If you really want a sport pkg, the best thing to do would be to invest about $700 with the tire rack and buy four snow tires which will come mounted on wheels. Buy the smaller diameter option, if there are several choices. Then you'll have the ultimate driving machine when conditions allow and a very competent snow car.

Sport/M steering wheel. The new E46 sport pkg wheel is a gem. Beautiful to view and hold. I'm a big fan of the 99/00 sport steering wheel too. I spoke to Dan Perdue who does internet parts specials (1 800 676 1595) and he told me he'd sold a bunch of M3 steering wheels to E46 sport people. Apparently, the air bag in the sport steering wheel is the same as the M3 so you only need to buy the wheel. He was selling the M3 steering wheel for under $200, I think. I don't know how much service will charge to install, but I'm sure it should be doable in around an hour. If you had to buy the air bag as well, that whacks about another $600-$900 on !!!

parump

I inadvertently left the gas cap unsealed and drove thirty miles without incident. Interestingly, the check engine light was not activated.

I believe that the emission control system performs a pressure check when the ignition is active and should identify a pressure leak. Could this be a faulty sensor?

Thanks in advance.

gurumike

... that would determine when the system decides to turn on the check engine light. Certainly, in your example I'd expect you'd need to drive for at least 20 mins before you might see it. There is no "pressure test" such as you described that I'm aware of and hence that wouldn't put the light on (!!). I think the official line is, and I always tell my clients these words: "A loose or missing gas cap MAY activate the check engine light."

parump

pat

Are you going to pass your comments about the 330i write up in the Entry Level Luxury Sport Sedan review on to the Edmunds staff? I encourage you to do so if you have not already.

If anyone else is interested in doing that and in case you may have missed my earlier post, just click on the Help link at either the very top right or the bottom right of this page. There you will find a link to provide your feedback.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board

gurumike

Can't you just email them and tell them to read it ? (Please?).

pat

I'm sorry. I just went to the link from that page and what used to be there IS NOT THERE ANYMORE! There used to be a simple form that you just put in what you wanted to say, and it is now MIA. Maybe you are supposed to just follow the "Letters to the Editor" link now - but that is a change of which I knew nothing (so what else is new).

Let me see what I can find out tomorrow.

My sincere apologies. I'll report back when I can find out what is going on.

Pat
Host
Sedans Message Boards

bmw323is

Pat, through the help link I found my way to email the editors at Edmunds. I sent them an email letting them know that their report was not current and accurate. The email address is editor@edmunds.com. Anyone else like to let them know your thoughts? Maybe a few hundred Bimmerheads that truly do find their cars to be the Ultimate Driving Machines would at least help them understand that omitting important new information is just plain wrong.

pat

Feedback can certainly be provided by emailing editor@edmunds.com and I encourage anyone who has something to say about the review to do just that.

I'm just bothered that there used to be a form on that page I directed everyone to - AND that the email link itself directs you to that (now mostly useless) page if you want a response. I guess I'm just thinking that if I were you folks, I certainly would want a response.

I have reported the apparent change - or glitch - and if I can learn anything more useful, I'll let you know.

Meanwhile, using that emai link does seem to be the best solution - thanks bmw323is.

Pat
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Sedans Message Board

blaketag

willyglee - thanks for the info. I outfitted my June production 330i with Sport Pkg., Steptronic (I have bad traffic and kids to contend with also), Xenons, CD, Heated Seats, and Sunroof. I guess you got power seats because you also opted for the Preminum Pkg. Since I did not, I'm assuming I'll get manual seats since I have the Sport Pkg. Not a big deal, but they'd be nice to have especially since they're std. on base 330i's. I'd certainly rather have the Sport Pkg. than power seats!

gurumike - from your post it sounds like the M steering wheel is not std. on recent 330i's w/SP. Looks like they are making it std. for the 2002 models. I agree that the 3 spoke SP wheel is really nice, however, I like the meatier feel of the M wheel. Guess I'll wait and see what shows up on my car in a few weeks. If it's not the M wheel, and I decide to upgrade, I'll definetly call the contact you posted. That would be a great price, as I've seen others mention a typical price of the M wheel being around $300.

Tom