BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

butmywife

Thanks for the extensive post on the Ed package. Good info. for those getting ready to order or within 6 weeks of going. My dealer had no idea what was going on with this process as they don't do many EDs. I had to tell them I needed to pay for the car a month ahead of delivery in Munich!

Anyway, I was also surprised with the package. Very complete and answered most of my questions. My third grade students think the pen is really cool! It was an unexpected treat and the atlas was a big help. Thanks also for the michelin url. I've used it to plan out my itinerary.

Biff Gay? We should introduce him to a very pompous salesman (BMW) in the Seattle area who was not willing to dicker much, although you would never guess that from his name: Dick Hard. No kidding here, I've got an email to prove it.

FWIW, I questioned Owner's Circle via email regarding the decoding of my VIN # and they promptly replied with all the info. Yes, my car was built in Germany and not shipped in from South Africa.

ButmyWife

gio100

2001 325i*-About a week ago I hit black ice on a tight curve going about 40mph and my car is a mess. Hit the curve really hard from the driver's side and both rims on that side are bent inward. My fold down seats don't adjust to their original position as they used to, the driver's side doors and trunk are all crooked. Hood and driver's side fender look really ugly and that piece that attaches front to rear below the doors was entirely ripped off as well as radiator damage. My concerned is if total loss is not an option by the insurance, would the dealer's body shop do a good job at getting your toy back in shape? I can clearly see frame damage just by the way the car stands. Can anyone give me some advice as to what BMW body shop refer to? I can't even walk near the car... Thanks guys

dl7265

Your such a world traveler i had no idea .

ironically , the only time ive left the US was in Ontario i have some friends in the Detroit area and we go over all the time. very pretty country.,

DL

daswolf

Sorry to hear about that. It pains me just to think about it. Try Dick's Autobody in Somerville. 96 Elmwood St. 617-625-9171.


They were recommended by BMW of Peabody and they specialize in high-end cars (Porsche, Ferrari, MB, BMW).


I was in there Friday to schedule an appointment because my 2001 325i was rear ended and has some slight damage to the rear bumper (re-painting). There was about a dozen BMW's there. The waiting list is long but they generally will squeeze in cars which are in less than "driveable" condition.


I have not had the work done yet, but the 5 and 7 series BMW's they had waiting for pickup looked flawless. I have also heard good things about them on other message boards. They were working on two 2000-2001 3 series when I was there. They are worth a call.


http://www.dicksautobody.com

nobee

Damn, I'm gone for a couple of days and you guys force me to read 161 msgs. I really enjoyed the G35 v. 3-series debate. dave330i was the first one to take the bait! lol. Anyway, just got back from driving to Paris and boy oh boy, at the very least, this will definitely prepare me for Seoul! I typically do not drive into Paris but since I was on a time crunch I decided to do so in my 5-series (left the shinny new 3 at home!). For all you EDs'; looking at my map the easiest way from Munich to Paris looks like A8 (E52) to Strasbourg, hit A4 (E25) straight into Paris. Saarbrucken, Metz, Reims are all good stops in the middle. Expect some toll booths (minimum of 4) into Paris. From Trier to Paris, I shelled out in euros: 11.00, 3.40, 3.10 and 1.80 for a total of 38.60 euros round-trip. Paris was again very beautiful and once again the Parisian of the female type continues to impress! ;-) Some notes to consider while driving in Europe:
1. You'll be driving with plates unfamiliar with the yocal locals so try to stay a bit conservative in your driving or they'll focus on you and may try to play stupid, unsafe, games with you on the roads.
2. For force protection reasons, if you're car has been in the local area for awhile, complete a quick scan of your car for good measure. Lots of anti-american sentiments lurking in EU.
3. If you do decide to go to Montemarte (?) (aka, Painters Square), keep your belongings close at hand. The lower area is a bit shady.
4. Be prepared for aggressive driving and watch out for the Mopeds and the motorcycles!

all in all, Paris is fantastic but hectic at times. I'd suggest not driving, taking a tour bus or the metro to get around. Your hotel will have every brouchure that you'll need. Hope this trip report helps!

-nobee

john01

I was in a taxi heading back to the airport and in the traffic the taxi driver was stuck behind a slower moving car, which refuses to get out of the way for a while. So he goes around him, but cuts right in front of him to show his frustration or whatever. Now the guy in the slower car decides to follow the taxi to take revenge. they are exchanging fists and verbal insults driving side by side, and I swear, they were going to pull over to go at it. All this while I am sitting in the back trying to make my flight.

Like nobee and many other says, better not to drive in Paris. I drove in Seoul and Madrid, which are crazy places in their own right, but I draw the line. Paris, and Italy are definitely not the places I want to drive.

nobee

in seoul last year. I was riding on the local bus and we stopped at a red light. Turned my head to the right and saw all of the passengers of another public bus getting off. Thought it was a breakdown of the bus, but in fact, it was a breakdown of a customer and the bus driver. They were arguing back and forth inside the bus and the passengers just hopped onto our bus. I guess bus rage has no limits in seoul! lol

-nobee

mschukar

What does it teach a kid to give them a $20-30k car? If they can't afford their own car, there are plenty of safe $5-10k cars out there that I will happily provide.

My parents taught me the value of money and living within my means (they grew up during the depression). I had to pay my way through college. You definitely study harder when you're writing the checks! I want my daughter to learn the value of money and working for what she wants. Giving her an expensive car won't accomplish that.

My daughter can have an expensive car, but she'll have to buy it with her own money!

-Murray

p.s. I learned to drive in a '74 Vega (CorVega we used to call it). My parents wouldn't let me get a licsense until I was 17 (in '81) because of insurance costs.

shipo

ButMyWife,

My second grader went totally ballistic when he saw the pen, “OHHHHH, can I have it? Can I huh? Ohhh, PLEASE, can I have it?”

Mschukar,

Shhh, don't tell anyone, but I am a Vega Alumni as well, I drove a 1971 Vega from Detroit to San Diego in 1975, feeding it a quart of 50W Quaker State every 50 miles THE WHOLE WAY ACROSS!

Kept the car two more years, rebuilt the motor, found a buyer, the day before they were to take delivery, some lady in a Rambler, ran a stop sign and totaled my Vega, she had no insurance, and I had just cancelled mine. :-(

Best Regards,
Shipo

huntzinger

I believe some parents want their childrens to drive safe cars, thus justifies the reason of buying them good cars.

A coworker with this approach has seen his daughter wreck three of them.

Since upscale cars usually come with loaded safety features, it means that they will drive more safely on the road.

Only if they don't know that they're present. I believe there was a study awhile back that showed that people with ABS tended to drive more aggressively, which offset the safety gain provided by the ABS.

Those parents just want their children to have life that they never were able to enjoy. If the economic situation allows, why not give your own
kids a better life.

This is fine within reason, but the problem is that it can develop into an environment of immediate gratification and entitlement. In the long run, these are detrimental to the child's personal maturity and growth.

Plus, not all teenagers are aggressive drivers

Name ONE ;-)

-----
Mschukar's response

My parents taught me the value of money and living within my means (they grew up during the depression).

Same here.

I had to pay my way through college.

I paid half.

You definitely study harder when you're writing the checks!

And your grades suffer when you have a job (or 3) while going through school.

I want my daughter to learn the value of money and working for what she wants. Giving her an expensive car won't accomplish that.

In other words, you're teaching discipline and self-sufficiency. Bravo.

My daughter can have an expensive car, but she'll have to buy it with her own money!

And if she's living at home after school, you're probably charging her for Room & Board, too. My parents charged 1/2 the going rate for a 1BR apartment, which I recognized as being more than fair.

-hh

mschukar

I have to confess here, my parents let me life at home for free while I went to college so it didn't cost me that much. All together, I think I spent $9000 for 5 years of college in the 80's.

And your grades suffer when you have a job (or 3) while going through school

I was able to two good paying jobs (TA for drafting class & concession manager at sporting events) that didn't take up to much time. There's a fine line, but I think holding a job in college teaches you to manage your time better. A few tenths off your GPA should be more than offset by the work experience in those first job interviews.

This is fine within reason, but the problem is that it can develop into an environment of immediate gratification and entitlement. In the long run, these are detrimental to the child's personal maturity and growth

Well said! I won't always be there to bail out my daughter so I want to teach her to manage her life without me.

Rewards in life are always more satisfying when you earn it yourself. I wouldn't appreciate my 325i as much if my Daddy gave me one.

-Murray

huntzinger

I have to confess here, my parents let me life at home for free while I went to college so it didn't cost me that much.

I need to confess -- or at least clarify -- too.

While in school, living at home was free for me as well. It wasn't until after I graduated (well, and got a job) that I had to pay to live at home. I think this is a fair arrangement.

Guess the real question is: how many BMW owners here are still living with their parents? :-)

-hh

drcr

IMO DRL look bad and really don't provide any additional safety unless weather conditions require lights- then just turn them on. I recall reading somewhere that there is no evidence that they improve safety. That said, when I ride a motorcycle, the lights are on.

Genie - Cyprus: My To-be-brother in law just got a BMW320. I am curious to try a 320 when i get there. I been to most of the island with the exception of the part Turkey invaded adn is occupying - I'll stop there w/the politics

We will get married in Nicosia, have the recep at the Hilton and then head to Aiya Napa and Protaras (Capo Bay) for a week before heading to Hawaii for the Honeymoon.

Funny you mentioned halloumi - just did some on the grill on Sunday

postoak

My salesman just called and gave me my production number. What good is it/What do I do with it? How far behind is what I really want, the VIN?

dave330i

Typical BMW life cycle is 6-7 years. I believe 2002 is the 4th year, so 2004-5 could be the next redesign.

esq1

The Orient Blue 325xiT which I ordered December 21 is finally in my garage. What a great car. We asked the dealer to activate the DRLs. I've seen studies which show that a big reason for many accidents is "I didn't see the other car." I figure having the lights on can't hurt, especially when you consider the blue hair factor driving around out there in Buicks, Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs with large chrome bumpers. Of course, I have the wagon and not a sporty coupe.

shipo

Hmmm, does it count if my Mother is living in our Guest Room for a while? ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

dave330i

I noticed my right fog lamp was cracked. I do remember a rock hitting glass on Friday, but couldn't figure out where. $130 to get it fixed.

1pierce

acbnyc: What do you think of your xenons? Worth the money? Alot better than traditional headlights? I'm leaning real hard toward getting them. My night vision has been deteriorating for years, and I recently drove my brother's 323i w/out xenons, and had some reservations. The cut-off point of the regular headlights seemed really sharp and abrupt - probably a European feature. The roads were very dark, though, with no street lights. Is the light color weird looking to you?

gio100: You're in a heep-a-hurt man! My friend had a Saab convertible with similar damage, bent undercarriage, the top wouldn't go down/up/seal, etc. Three body shops (two of them Saab) worked on the car, and it was never right. I doubt that your insurance will total it, since a 2001 3-series is still worth over $25,000. I advise you to do what he did - get the car fixed, and don't break the bank doing it. If it isn't right, start looking for a new car and trade this one while the paint is still new. The PC police may think this is unethical, but if you don't want to get burned worse than you have already, I'd dump this car ASAP. You'll be paying the penalty anyway, in trading a wrecked title. And...a dealer would do it to you, bet on it! My friend bought his Saab used in that condition from Saab dealer. A dumb purchase, I know, but it was cosmetically invisible, and the title did not indicate a wreck. He has been in a law suit over this for two years. He's suing for the $10,000 hit he took when he traded the car.

abcnyc

Billiam70 - I do have a 2002 330i with the Bi-xenons. Thanks for the explanation. It just seemed liked a lot of lamp for just flashers - I do not have the DRL activated. But obviously it has other uses in the past and present configuration.

1pierce - I like the xenons. My wife initially gave me a hard time about getting the xenons because she said "You don't have them now in your car, and you can still see". But my response was "It doesn't hurt to see better. You can also brake without ABS, but isn't it better to have ABS ?". I think they really make a difference, especially on dark unlight roads. We have some rurals country roads we travel on occasionally, and you can really see the difference. It's a much brighter look with a broader path. Is it worth $700 ? I figure it is if it prevents me from hitting a deer or something just once. The light color is not wierd looking from inside the car. I liken it to flouresent lighting vs. regular yellow light bulbs. It probably does look 'more' different from the outside.

I'd like to see more comments on the DRL. I don't have them activated now, but maybe it doesn't hurt to have the car more noticeable by others.

dblue1

I was wondering what type of discount or amount off the sticker you were able to get off on your 330i. I am going to buy a 330ci or possibly a 325ci shortly. I have been offered about $1500 off the sticker with an initial offer. What do you think I can get off?

dave330i

I really like the brightness of the xenons, but the recent cracked fog light got me thinking. If the xenons crack, they'll be expensive to replace. Something to think about if you're on a tight budget.

dblue1

I was wondering what type of discount or amount off the sticker you were able to get off on your 330i. I am going to buy a 330ci or possibly a 325ci shortly. I have been offered about $1500 off the sticker with an initial offer. What do you think I can get off?

john01

I put stongard light on our car just to avoid havin it cracked. A set of xenon headlights goes for 1300 to 1500 for both sides on 5 series. I would think 3 would be similar. Stongard light cost me about $60.

dave330i

I hear these products are very good at protecting you car from small stones upto 100 mph. Unfortunately, HWY speed here is ~80 mph, so if I'm traveling at 80, and stone kicks up, I'm not sure how much protection it'll really be.

shipo

Xenons,

Xenon? Worth every penny. The deer comment might be a worthless "What if?" for some folks, however, traveling back from a Class V Rafting trip in West Virginia in the fall of 2000, we had a VERY close call.

Situation, 3:00 AM, driving home through northern West Virginia or western Maryland, my wife had taken a pain killer (a couple of bruised ribs) and was resting uncomfortably, I was in pain from a Copperhead bite to my right hand, but, never-the-less reasonably alert (I gave her my prescription pain killer and took aspirin instead), cruising down I-70 with the cruise control set at about 75, when my Xenon's lit up a deer bounding across the roadway from left to right. I was JUST able to swerve to the left to (almost) avoid the deer by driving behind (I hoped) its intended path. As we went by, the damn thing stopped, and the right side mirror hit the deers' hind end, folded, hit the glass, and then popped back into position. Scared the hell out of my wife who was sleeping with her head against the window.

Would I have seen it if I had regular lights? Maybe. Would I have seen it as clearly soon enough to avoid a mess? Maybe not.


DRLs, I vote with two big thumbs down. Why? Because of their implementation, NOT because of the concept.

It seems that the "Brain Trusts" at the NHTSA has deemed that DRLs should be "Low Power High-Beams" instead of good old-fashioned low-beams. Speaking strictly for myself, I find that DRLs are extremely annoying (if not dangerous) on cars and downright deadly on Pickups and SUVs. No matter how you slice it, these lights are aimed up, right into the eyes of the on-coming traffic. On overcast days, or driving on tree-lined roads, these DRLs can absolutely dazzle the eyes of on-coming drivers, leading to potential accidents. (Can you tell yet that I don't like DRLs?)

Personally, I thing the issue of making cars more visible (which I am all for) should be separated from the issue of DRLs (as currently implemented here in the USA). Case in point, have any of y'all seen the new "Angel Eyes" that BMW has mounted on the 2001-2002 5-Series and the 2002 745i? Said Angel Eyes DO in fact increase the visibility of a car, however, they are NOT classified as DRLs. To get DRLs on those two cars, you still need to have the proper programming to enable the High-Beams to come on during the daytime!

So, am I in favor of DRLs as a general concept? YES!
Am I in favor of DRLs as implemented by the NHTSA? Hell NO!


General DRL observation; I live about a half of a mile from BMWNA, and needless to say, BMWs of all kinds are to be seen in my neighborhood, so much so, that they are more common than your basic Camry. That said, I look at every one, just to make sure that I don't miss anything new. As a general statement, the actual employees of BMWNA seem to be opposed to DRLs themselves. I say that because, based upon my very unscientific observations, less than 25% of said employees have their DRLs programmed on.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tenet1

I chose not to get DRL's for the same reasons that Shipo provided above. Also, these is probably little value to them considering the way people drive. My dealer said that most people did not activate them. I have close to 25 3 series in my buildings garage and most do not have them activated either (I wonder why).

Shipo: I would get the 5 Series just for the Angel Eyes.

The Xenons are a must have option in my opinion. Their benefit can really be felt under poor weather conditions when the road stays lit up. Plus, it changes the look of the car completely. I think people tend to stare at it a bit more. he, he, he.

nyccarguy

Maybe that said 25% are the receptionists and secretaries who just drive a BMW because they get an employee discount. I wonder if the cars w/ drls are Automatic with no SP?

I too am a fan of DRLs in theory. I don't like them for many of the reasons shipo doesn't. Another reason not to like the DRLs is that they detract from the look of the car when run through the high beams. To me, some of the cars look almost cross-eyed.

My Saab has DRLs, but they did it as only the engineers at Saab can do...the Low Beams are on ALL THE TIME.

Xenons: The first car in my family to have this wonderful feature is my father's 2001 Infiniti QX4. He pretty much would be the first person to not check them on the options list. They came standard on his truck. He loves them and thinks they're wonderful. When my parents were shopping for cars earlier this year, my Mom blew a fuse in the car on the way home JERRY! WHAT THE ^%&# DO I NEED $700 HEADLIGHTS FOR?! My Dad actually took her on a drive back to back between her CLK (Halogens) and his Truck (Xenons). While this was not the most scientific of experiments, she was amazed at the clarity of the Xenon lights.

billiam70

This information was included in the 3 Series review on the Consumer's Guide web site. Thought I would share...

---------------

News: If you think there are more of these BMWs on the road these days, you're right. Year-to-year, U.S. 3-Series sales were up 27 percent in calendar 2000 and by 33 percent for the first half of 2001.

A new-generation 3, codenamed "E90", is on track for around 2006, but the current "E46" platform should sire a few more offshoots before then. The most definite is the X3, a kind of junior X5 sport-utility with a similar all-wheel-drive system, but derived from the normal 3-Series wagon and built in Germany, not the U.S. Look for it as a 2003 entry. Just released for Europe is a stripped-down M3 coupe called M3 CSL, with some 380 horsepower, a stiff price, and limited availability. It's aimed at occasional weekend track racers. An M3 wagon with the regular M3 coupe powertrain is also being mooted, but, like the CSL, can't be confirmed yet for U.S. sale.

Due by late 2004 is the much-discussed 1-Series, a smaller and more affordable new 4-cyl BMW. It's being designed (as project "E81") to share many components with the next-generation 3. Pricing would fall between the 3-Series and BMW's new Mini.

The 1-Series should debut in 2- and 4-dr hatchback models, with a 4-dr sedan and wagon following a year later. A sporty spinoff coupe and perhaps a convertible may arrive after mid-decade with the 2-Series badge. All these "Baby Bimmers" will have rear-wheel drive, not front-drive like the Mini. U.S. engines should comprise a 115-hp 1.8-liter and/or a related 140-hp 2.0-liter. Both are BMW designs sourced from the company newly opened British engine plant. They're also clean-sheet affairs featuring BMW's Valvetronic variable-valve-timing system and, by the time they reach us, direct fuel injection. A hot "M1" performance model with around 240 hp is also in the works, say European sources, but still several years away.

http://auto.consumerguide.com/auto/new/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/20770.htm

nyccarguy

And if a 3000 pound rolling object has to have headlights on in some capacity in order for you to see it, then you shouldn't be driving! LOL!

john01

Well if it protects up to speed of 160 mph (accoring to manufacturer's claim) then I don't see why it would not protect your lights at any speed below that. Let's say you are moving at 80 mph, and the stone is kicked up by another car, etc., and coming at you at 80 mph (probably much less), your light should be ok. Wouldn't you say?

hippo168

I have Xenons, too, and I like it. However, somehow I get flashed by the on-coming cars many times. I guess they are not used to the bright white xenons, and thought I was on high-beam...

Somebody also mentioned the xenon has a "self-leveling" feature, is it an option or it is already built in?

dave330i

I was looking at a competitors which was good upto 100 mph. If stongard is good upto 160, then it seems like a worth while investment.

hippo168: Xenon "self-leveling" is built in.

tenet1

The self leveling feature is part of the Xenon lights. It adjusts the light beam up/down depending upon the load in the car.

If you feel that your lights are blinding others, then get them checked out. I have seen a couple of 3ers that seem unusually bright when driving by.

john01

You will be surprised how thick it is when you receive it. However, it was hardly noticeable when I put it on. Just be patient and take your time applying it. I thought about xpel, but their speed rating was a bit lower, I think.

hspark

My 325i is in status number 182. What does it means and when can I expect to deliver to east coast.

I just heard 325i is made in south Africa. Does it make any difference in terms of quality of the car or reliability compare to made in Germany?

Thank you .

jjshabadoo

My observation of most cars with DRL activated is that they are pretty harmless. The one exception that comes to mind are the DRL's on Saturns. For some reason they seem unusually bright and extremely distracting.

dej0

Our new 325i sedan also has xenons. I love them. I think they make a big diference. I agree that $700 seems like a lot, but how can you justify stinting on your safety? I also see dear crossing the road several times a year (they eat up my gardening efforts too). The bluish tint is different, but you adjust immediately. I have not had any other cars flash at us, yet.

Ned

shipo

JJShabadoo,

I concur on the Saturn thing, there are times when I actually "Flash" a Saturn (my lights NOT my cheeks ;-)) because the DRLs are so bright.

Hspark,

If you are willing to rely on my memory of the last 12,000 plus posts since I became active here again, there is absolutely no evidence to indicate that cars from SA are any less reliable than cars from Germany.

Best Regards,
Shipo

hspark

My 325i is in status number 182. What does it means and when can I expect to deliver to east coast.

I just heard 325i is made in south Africa. Does it make any difference in terms of quality of the car or reliability compare to made in Germany?

Thank you .

seivwrig

My 325i has them but I don't think that I will be able to make an analysis until my car get back to the States. In England, the M25 was too well lit to notice I even had headlights on. It rained at night when I was driving from Ipswich to Luton via A12 to M25 to M1. They were great on the B-roads in Germany, pending the point you got to a crest. While on the autobahn, I could not see too far ahead while I was driving because the lights had a cutoff point that was very noticeable while going downhill. The side vision was excellent. Got flashed many times on the Autobahn but not England. It was odd that I never got flashed in England especially given that the beams goes right versus British cars have the beam going slightly to the left. The intensity is great and the light seems more natural. I would definitely buy xenons again but I would have to figure out if the leveling is based on the load or the environment in which one is driving.

I would like to hear anyone's experience with Xenon on mountain roads.

tenet1

I believe that > 30,000 (someone correct me) 325i were built for the Japanese and US market in SA. There is no difference in quality. They are with their German brothers and sisters in sickness and in health.

psukhu

The xenons are worth the price. What is bi-xenon?

lfgpit

I just grappled with these issues myself. I am trading my '99 328i in on Saturday for my new '02 330xi.
DRLs: I had the DRLs active on the 328i. I activated the DRLs for safety. On the 330xi, I told the dealer not to activate the DRLs. I changed my mind because I stuck out almost too much. The DRLs attract attention at times when I didn't want it. (Take a look at police officers when you drive by.) Further, they make you and your car identifyable because no one else has them on.
Xenons: I again chose not to buy the xenons. I just couldn't justify the cost because I had to stretch as it was. I don't usually drive outside of the city or well lit surrounding sububrbs. The comments on the board are well received though. Next time, who knows.... ?

dave330i

Triditional xenons have xenon low light, and regular hi-beam. Bi-xenon means both are xenons.

1pierce

I'm convinced. Like the HK stereo, for me, the xenons are now a must have. I'll just swallow hard and pay the $700.

This site has been invaluable to me over the last several months. I consider myself to be a pretty opinionated and strong willed person, so I'm surprised at how you guys have swayed my buying decision with regard to the 3-series. I think you've just awakened me to some of the reasons why I really want this car.

When I came here, I was planning to get a 325i with Step, PP and HK. I am now "building my BMW" as a 325i with Step, SP, HK, Power Seats and Xenon. Net change in cost +$300. Net change in appearance and enjoyment - priceless.

You still haven't convinced me to get the manual transmission or a color other than red, but feel free to keep trying.

cnorthrup

Actually Bi-xenon means that the one light(outside lights) serves as both low and high while the inner lights are still halogen used for DRL's and flash to pass.

CNorthrup

dave330i

Isn't that what I said?

1pierce: test drive a manual. Really push the car, then try to do the same with the step. It just isn't the same.

huntzinger

My issue with DRL's is twofold:

1. Having everyone with DRL's makes them non-unique, which means that those people who would benefit the most from them - - motorcycles - - lose that benefit.

2. Some of us work at locations with security, and headlights must be dimmed when approaching the checkpoints. DRL's cannot do this.

On Xenons, I'm very happy in that I don't have to make the choice right now, in that I believe that there is a real issue worth investigating here, though, namely that it doesn't do you a bit of good to produce more light if its not useful light.

My basic concern is that the human eye is not the same as a camera or other machine, and the entire issue of perception is quite complex.

As this applies to Xenons, the difference between Xenons and Halogens is that the primary wavelength is higher (bluer), and if the human eye and brain (sum equals perception) requires a higher overall contrast at this wavelength in order to perceive things, then you're going to need more light just to stay even. As such, I'm not yet convinced of their effectiveness.

...and BTW, before I get bombarded with a hundred anecdotes, let's remember what anecdotes are and look instead for guidance from scientifically valid double-blind experiments. Maybe they exist (URL's anyone?), but I haven't had the compelling need to go conduct this particular literature search.

-hh

allano

In msg 14896 when you said "both", I interpreted both as meaning both lights rather than both high and low beams in one light and was about to write a comment similar to CNorthup's.

Alan