BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

bbell4

Thanks Dave - if I plan on keeping the car for at least 10 years would it be worth it to get the 330? I do drive to California (from Arizona) once or twice a year and I live on the outskirts of town,, so there is some open road. Seems like it would be nice to have the option of more power but if I really wouldn't use it, I COULD use the extra $$

Thanks for your (and anyone else's) opinion again if you don't mind

dave330i

I believe the top speed of both model are electronically limited. 330i will just get you to the limit faster.

The best thing to do is test drive both, and see which suites your tastes better. With the extra power in 330i, you can be lazy in your shifting. One thing to remember is that the engine needs 6k+ miles on it before it really comes alive.

If the money is tight, Euro delivery is something to consider.

bbell4

Thanks again Dave...The dealership in Tucson doesn't have a 325 in a stick - only a 330 and in the test drive the other day it was tough getting used to the clutch - so it wasn't the smoothest ride. (From what I've read on this message board, that's not uncommon...I'll need to go to Phoenix to test drive a 325 but I just want to find out as much as I can. Do most people have a hard time deciding b/t the two? Will the 330 have more resale value 10 years from now? Am I right in that you think there is no question a 325 is fine for basically in town kinds of driving?

bbell4

How the hell do dealerships NOT have sticks to test drive???Even Phoenix says they don't have one. I don't WANT a steptronic! What's up with that???

ddblue

I was definitely on a budget ($35K tops), so I had to stick with the 325Ci. No regrets, mind you. The car is a blast, and for around-town driving you'll be in heaven. Very smooth, and don't worry, you'll get used to the clutch.

I was trying to decide between a bare bones 330Ci (SP only) and a nearly loaded 325Ci (SP, Harmon Kardon, Leather, Moonroof, Xenon). The 330Ci was still thousands more. The 325Ci has been the perfect car for me. Any more HP, and I might be taking a trip downtown with the fuzz.

dave330i

National average of 3 series sedan with manual in US is 20% or something, so dealers don't use much of their allocation. On the coupes the number's 50-60%. You might want to see if any dealer has a 325Ci with manual you could test drive.

bbell4

Can you guys tell I have NO idea what to buy? :)What's your opinion on the xenon headlights?

Why do so few people get the stick? Isn't that WHY you buy a sports car?! I just didn't like the steptronic - it's just NOT the same thing!

mg330ci

instead of 91!

Any Experience out there?
Will performance suffer?

nyccarguy

330Ci that costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $40,000 and you're cheaping out by using non-premium gasoline? Do yourself a favor; use Premium 92-93+.

riez

mg330ci... Read the owner's manual. And look at the recent test done by Car & Driver (done within the past 6 months or so). The engine will run on fuel with a lower octane. I wouldn't recommend anything below 87 octane. It has a sophisticated control system, including knock sensor. But you will experience reduced power output and reduced fuel economy. So you'll save a bit on gasoline purchase at pump but lose the savings as you drive! Zero sum game.

You're better off sticking with at least the recommended optimal octane as specified in the owner's manual.

ddblue

I consider Xenon's one of the options I HAD to have on my 325Ci. Though some drivers complain that they are too bright when seeing them in oncoming cars, I have read that they are actually less harsh on the eyes than normal halogen. Visibility is excellent, no comparison. The beam dispersal is actually configured so that the left beam is slightly shorter than the right beam to take the oncoming driver into consideration. I swear by the xenons on dark, remote roads. They have been fantastic. The auto-leveling feature works quite well, to boot. Plus, they just plain look cool.

mg330ci

Probably, I will go to the dealer and test drive both after dark (xenon and regular). If they close before sunset, try to wait for one of those "APRIL MIDNIGHT MADNESS SALE EVENTS" ;>) (Although I have never seen BMW do one of those).

The end point is that you will get 2 type of opinions:

1.- Xenons are great, I see better, they are cool, they look cool, when I see a pair of those heading towards me or better yet, in my rearview mirror, I know a bimmer is coming.

or

2.- Xenons are not woth the extra $$, the standard headlights are excellent anyway.

I by the way, have xenons, but you should try them for yourself.

Don't forget to report on your impressions

dave330i

General consensus is that xenons are worth the money.

As to why so few sticks? There are several reason. Some people do have horrendous commute, and they're willing to sacrifice some performance for ease. I don't particularly agree, but it's their choice. Some people buy BMWs for the Roundel (nuff said). Some people's significant other may not know or willing to drive a manual.

mg330ci

Thanks guys, I do agree with you.

I just wanted to shear what the dealer told me.

Also wondering about our good old friend Sadam, oil, shortage, you know

leenelsonmd

Well, I went out today to look at the competition. I test drove the MB C320 and the Infinity G35. I am going to ramble on a little, so bear with me or skip down to the next message.

The MB C320 was much more of a sedan type feel than the 330i. It was powerful enough and had great torque, but was loud when you pushed it and the transmission was not smooth. Definitely not a refined car that you would expect from MB. It did have some nice features like standard leather seating inserts, although the standard leather was unimpressive IMO. The cup holder for what it is worth seemed ridiculous and over-engineered. I think it is a great car for someone who is looking for a sedan that actually plans on using the back seat occasionally. I am not, however, looking for a family sedan. I felt like the car failed to flow together as a unit. It pitched a little in the turns. (The salesman was a little distraught). Altogether I felt that they knew that they fell short of the 330 benchmark and so they tried to make up for it by throwing in a lot of MB gadgetry to cover up for its shortcomings. The steptronic transmission was a little awkard in that to change a gear you simply tapped it (you did not have to actually shift it into a different slot) and the gears would change. I found myself shifting accidentally while handling the stick. I found the HUGE MB hood ornament that is conspicuous as you drive down the road to be a little obtrussive.

The G35 was an impressive car. It had tremendous acceleration and excellent braking. It cornered relatively well too. I liked the features and available features -- 6 CD indash changer, Bose sound system with an excellent subwoofer and a good bass response. It is a great car for the money no doubt. I can see why it has such a vocal group of supporters over on the other boards. If I had a G35 I would love the occassional opportunity to pull up beside a 330 and blow its doors off down the line and know that I spent 6-8k less. When you sit in this car you know that this is what it was made for. Despite all of this, I was not won over, at least not yet. It is conspicuously Japanese in design. Lots of plastic that overwhelms you. The center arm rest and console is plastic and relatively high profile. You find yourself handling the console as you drive down the road rather than the gear shift. (I drive a 325 now and the "arm rest" is useless for me. I rest my hand on the stick even though it is an automatic--although I manully change gears all the time). The clock is somewhat obtrussive and stares at you as time ticks off. I am not going to mention the ridiculous wood trim--this will probably be changed in the middle of the model year. I was sitting in a car. They failed to create the cockpit that wraps around the driver--esentiallly it lacked the "european" feel. The car performed well, but again did not create the same flow and sense of cooperation that you get when you are driving the 3 series--everyone who is an owner of a 3 series knows what I am talking about--the entire car seems to work in harmony with the driver and with the road and each of the components from the brakes, to the engine to the transmission to the suspension seem to work together. It is true that each of these is individually impressive with the G35, but the way they work together, while not bad, still does not compare to the 3 series.

seivwrig

During European Delivery, you will find that regular unleaded is equivalent to our premium about 91 to 92 octane. The premium is about 95 octane. With the price of gasoline in Europe, you might want to shear some euros off the price of petrol. I used the 95 the whole time I was in Europe, now my car will have to deal with 93 octane. Will this make a difference?

dave330i

The initial tests of G35 indicates, it's about even with 330i, not "blow its doors off down the line".

dave330i

Where are you getting 93? The best I'm getting is 91.

leenelsonmd

After driving both I cannot imagine a way for the 330 to keep up with the G35 in the 1/4 mile. However, I do not have any hard data to support this. It may have just felt faster because it lacked some of the refinement that you see in the 330.

leenelsonmd

I have never read any convincing report that says driving one octane or the other is better either in engine performance, longevity, gas mileage, etc. The truth is that scientifically making such a comparison is extremely difficult to do.

90% of the treatments and methods doctors offer to patients are unproven, but this does not mean that they are without merit.

I religiously use 93 octane.

dave330i

Car & Driver I believe has a review of G35, and the numbers are very close to 330i (i.e. with in couple of tenths).

carwatch

When will you have your 325i? Hope it's soon!

Can't help you much where to advertise for your Sentra, usually done by word of mouth here and a gentleman's handshake that the car is really in good shape. Kind of an unspoken rule. Civics, Ludes, and Accords are more popular here. I know they are big on modifying Sentras in Texas. They even had a Sentra MOD event last year but I can't remember the website.

riez

leenelsonmd... I'm talking (as was C&D) about what happens when you choose to use gasoline with a LOWER than optimumly recommended octane. Your owner's manual tells you what BMW has to say about their recommended octane. My wife's '00 323iA recommends 91 octane. So if she uses 90 or less, she is using less than recommended octane. That will lead to reduced fuel economy and engine output.

I am NOT talking about any purported benefits from using a higher than recommended octane. That is another issue entirely. (I am NOT a believer in using 101 octane or 95 octane in a car where the manufacturer recommends 91.)

john01

Actually, the euopean octane ratings are calculated differently than the US. The higher EU number would actually match the US numbers if calculated the same way. European 95 would be about 90-91 in US.

leenelsonmd

The $700 option.

If money is tight forget them.

I have decided to get them when I order my 330. You can talk all day about better visibility and safety for you, your passengers and even oncoming traffic since they project less light into the eyes of other cars--these are what you tell your wife if you have to rationalize them. The bottom line is that you want them don't you? Everyone wants them. Get them.

4-10 years from now when you sale your car, if it has halogen lights, the buyer might think "rats--it is a nice car, but it has those halogen lights like they used to use."

riez

In USA, isn't the standard pump octane the average of Research Octane Number (RON) and Motor Octane Number (MON)? Thinking the formula I see on all the pumps is (RON+MON)/2=Pump Octane. One of these two is much higher than the other. Thinking the Europeans use only this higher number on their gasoline pumps.

bbell4

Will the 184 HP in a 325 10 years from now be like computers 10 years ago - completely and totally outdated and S.....L....O....W?? Or is it really all I need and resale will be fine??

Did others of you struggle with which one to get? What was the MAIN determining factor?

dave330i

I wouldn't worry too much about it. There's always something better just around the corner, and if you wait for it, you'll never get anything.

I got a 330i due to the 2 year wait list on a M3.

leenelsonmd

bbell4: The main factor is your wallet. Get what you can afford. If money is much of an issue for you, then I think there is no doubt that the 330 will be a more enjoyable car for you.

Don't forget the other benefits: 17in wheels, 6-way power driver and passengers seats, the trip computer, the HK stereo with 12 speakers, and of course the tilt-reverse passenger mirror- a must.

Additionally, the 330 has memorized driver settings for the seat and mirrors.

I do not think that you will find either car to be SLOW. My 190hp '95 325 drives great and could never be categorized as SLOW--except maybe by dave330i when he gets his M3--which makes almost everything seem to standstill.

leenelsonmd

You asked about 93 octane.

In Houston, regular is 87, plus is 89, and premium fuel is 93 octane almost universally. Occassionally you might see 92 as premium.

With all of these random posts we should make it back on to the top ten boards here soon. I almost couldn't find my way on today when we were not on that initial page.

seivwrig

Dave330i:
In Houston or Cowtown or Oiltown, we get 93 octane for premium but leenelsonmd has already mention that and I think he lives in the Houston area.

bbell4:Price was the starting factor. At this point in my young life, I refuse to buy a car for myself that is more than $35000 before tax. For my wife, I'll buy her the universe if I could afford it. My final list was TL Type-S, A4 3.0, S60 T5 and 325i. Lack of cheap look wins. If I was to look for a car now, I would probably add the G35. I like the WRX and Focus SVT but I was looking for a luxury car.

vkwheels

My new car :-) should be in 'round midJune, maybe a bit later. I thought about avoiding this board until then, but the idea that I'd have to read 14000 msg to catch up keeps me coming back. (j.k.--I enjoy it too much!). BTW, Does anyone, Pat, know why this board isn't listed under 'hot discussions anymore'? Anyways...
Xenons would have been nice, I had to draw the line somewhere otherwise coulda spent alot more on options. I didn't even consider the 330 cuz of the money & knowing I really didn't need that much hp. I believe this will hold true even 10 yrs from now. Love to read statements like LeeNelsonMd wrote about flow & sense of cooperation, cannot go by claims that so&so has the best brakes, or that X can blow Y out of the water.

f1116

Just picked up my steel gray 330I with PP, SP, Xenons, HK, tinted windows, pinstripe. Just had it for an hour and I love it!!!! Got it at BMW Houston North for $40,685. Thanks for the info you guys posted...been reading it for over 6 months. You gave all the info I needed. Got to go hit the road now.....Thanks everyone...

twoof1

has been working funky for some time now.

A while back I remember seeing someone post a comparison of regular VS premium fuel. The study showed that the cost savings of the cheaper fuel was practically offset by the lower mileage due to the computer adjustments to reduce pinging.
I run 91 octane exclusively (unless I can find higher which I have not found here in so. Cal)

OT:
I'm off on my annual trek to pay homage to the racing gods in Long Beach this weekend. IMHO CART is still the best auto racing in the USA (second worldwide only to F1). It is incredible to watch these guys drive flat out in a concrete lined tunnel. We had an IRL race at California Speedway here a couple of weeks back. I drove by on the freeway and the place was empty. I think even the IRL's own propaganda said attendance was listed at something like 15,000. Long Beach will pull something in the neighborhood of 100-150,000 screaming road race loving open wheel fanatics. As you can tell, I am only a little pumped up!!
Watch it on Fox Sunday. Look for the guy with the BMW F1 baseball hat. I'll wave to ya all!
To plagiarise a line from Apocalypse now:
"I love the smell of methanol in the morning!"
Sorry for the off-topic rant
OUT!

denk

Unless you do a lot of driving at night on country roads, xenons are imo a waste of $700. Someone please tell me what good xenons would do driving on crowded big city expressways to or from the suburbs. Am I missing something?

shipo

"Smells like... Victory!" ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kominsky

Congrats on the new car! If you get any digital pics posted on a webpage or that you'd like to email, I'd love to see them... I don't think I've ever seen pin-striping on a 3 series.

bbell4

If I have a 2-3 month wait anyway, wouldn't it be better to just wait til October when the 2003's come out? (Isn't that generally when the new models arrive?)

Anyone know what will be new on the 2003's 3 series?

hpman

I finalized the order for my new 330i ED with Mike Weber at Park Avenue BMW this week. I was not able to get a pickup scheduled for earlier than the first week of June, but decided in the end that the wait was worth it.

Thanks for all your help! Your recommendations, combined with everyone else's comments, saved me a bundle.

Now all I have to do is wait... and wait. Although, I think the wait for it to get back here from Europe will be even worse.

It's getting REALLY close for you now. Just a little longer and you will be settling in for the drive of your life!

Thanks to everyone for the education on BMW's... another fanatic is born:)

Josh

shipo

Congratulations on your 330i. If I remember correctly, you said that you would be able do a “combined business trip/second delivery of your 330i” to the NYC area. That will allow you to get your car back to Denver with plenty of summer and fall driving ahead of you. Hmmm, a cross-country road trip in high summer in a 330i, I am envious. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

shipo

I just talked to Mike Weber over at Park Avenue, and he told me that he even managed to arrange to "Drop Ship" your car to your local dealership in Colorado. Hmmm, I wonder how you local dealership will feel about that. ;-)

Congratulations once again.

Best Regards,
Shipo

brave1heart

An older 911 caught up with me on a back road this morning and we had some fun driving together for 4-5 miles. I can't tell exactly what year the 911 was but it was definitely pre '90 and older than mid-70's - I am guessing by the style of the car that it was early '80's. The driver was a responsible-looking gentleman in his early 40's and I was a tad surprised to see him take off full speed at the light (I was right behind). At the next light, I was behind him again and I thought I'd try to keep up with him. The flag dropped and we both took off full speed. I was upshifting in the low 6 on the tach. He was marginally quicker - maybe 1/10 sec 0-80. Next light, same thing, except I kept up all the way up to 80 but I think above that speed, he would have been quicker if he'd pushed it. A lot depends on the condition of the 911 - with a car 20 or so years old it's tough to know but I think if the 911 was in perfect shape he would have easily outrun me. It must have been a shocker to anyone else to see a 325 with a "Baby on board" sign in the back and the mom and baby in the back seat try to keep up with a 911. All of us had fun, though!!

hpman

Shipo,

Yeah, it worked out really well with Mike arranging to have the car shipped all the way through to Colorado. The few days I would have spent driving it back from New Jersey will now be tacked onto the end of my vacation in Europe. Figured I will have plenty of opportunities to explore Colorado roads with my 330i in the future, but this is a once in a lifetime shot across the pond.

I figure my local dealer won't be too thrilled to see me strolling in to pick up the car I purchased from New York. Especially since I did all my test drives with them. What can I say... I gave them every opportunity to match the deal Mike put together.

Thanks again for putting me in touch with Mike! The ordering process has been smooth as silk.

I can't wait to hear about your upcoming trip... hope you plan on writing a LONG recap for all of us to enjoy and dream about!

Thanks again Shipo!
HPMan - Josh

brave1heart

I am green with envy. Long Beach is one of my favorite tracks and CART is my favorite league - I like it even better than F1 for its competitiveness and versatility. Enjoy it - we'll be looking for you on the screen )

butmywife

If memory serves me correctly you pick up a couple days ahead of us. Bon voyage and I know you'll have a great trip in France. Did you get the house outside of Beantown? I wonder what $550K can buy you in France?

Do I remember correctly that Visa debit/atm cards will suffice while in Europe?

Four more days for us. Wo'hoooooooooo!

ButMyWife

orientblue330i

can anyone recommend dealers/salesmen in the NY tri state area? friend is looking to get a new 330i, and while i got my car at Life Quality BMW in brooklyn, not exactly jumping out of my seat to go back to them.
TIA
-Ken

nobee

$550K in Paris. 1 bed, 1 1/2 bath apartment with a view of a brick wall. I wonder how anyone could afford these places...

visa debit/atm card will work 99% of the time to get some money out and for purchases, but I've gone to a few places where only mastercard was accepted. Good luck and have fun picking up your new bmw!

-nobee

brave1heart

shipo

The house in New Hampshire (30 some miles from Bean Town) that we liked so much was already under contract as it turns out (the sign said it was still for sale). :-( It is still premature for us to actually make any hard and fast plans, as there are still a lot of negotiations to take place before any decision to move is made. Never the less, that house was as near perfect for my family and me as I have seen in several years.

Oddly enough, a year ago or so, my wife was being offered a job in northern France (about 50 km from Lille), and I did a little house hunting on the Internet. In that area, you would be surprised what 500 large will buy you. I actually saw a (somewhat rundown) chateau (including walls, gardens, stables, servants quarters, ponds and such) for the mid 500s!

From my experience (Mr. Nobee obviously has more recent data), ATM, AMEX and VISA cards work the best in most parts of Europe. That said, for some reason, southern France seems to prefer MasterCard (to the exclusion of AMEX & VISA), and ATM card coverage is a little spotty down there as well.

If you E-Mail me your car specs and VIN, I will attempt to locate it and take a few pictures of it with my new (and very cool) digital camera, which I will then E-Mail back to you. ;-)

And Now... back to my regularly scheduled taxes. :-(

Best Regards,
Shipo

butmywife

Thanks for the information. I'll be the guy in the greygreen 325xi trying to get used to the clutch while keeping it under 100mph. Life is sweet!
I heard gas was $5/gallon in Italy nowadays. The $1.43 for premium will seem like a steal when I return.
Been sampling different types of kim chee yet?
ButMyWife