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Comments
Finally, I did ask for my mats and they threw those in. They cost $95 otherwise.
Can't help you with Audi.
Very interesting! I think Moss Motors is turning out to be a thorn in their side. Free market at work.
If John Roberts adheres to the standards BMW apparently holds, then I don't think buying a car out of town will be too inconvenient. Waiting around for an oil change wouldn't be too bad. Doing without a car for 3 or 4 days waiting on parts, etc. would be miserable, and apparently they must offer a loaner car in such a situation.
Plus, as others on this board have mentioned, the service department is certainly separate from the sales department, and they will be interested in happy customers. So I do wonder if we might get a loaner car anyway....
Which car are you looking at?
Bellevue BMW - Good inventory but hard to get attention, lots of traffic, and people willing to sign without negotiating ... hence, as an educated buyer, it was painfully and immediatly obvious that no deals were to be had there. Perhaps this has changed now that demand is off a bit.
BMW Northwest - Dealt with Ron Hansen. Honest, knowledgeable, easy, willing to deal and NO BS. I highly recommend you talk to him.
PS - In my case (1999), I had to cancel a Eurodelivery because I couldn't wait for the car. Ron gave me *zero* hassle and was very accomodating when I gave him the news. I'm currently way out-of-state (getting ready to buy the BMW I should have waited for) and am planning to make a special effort to check with BMW NW for a quote.
as a matter of fact, u've got a very good rate. I called my dealer this morning regarding the 5.9% apr and she wasn't able to give that to me... the best she can do is 6.9%... =(
Actually, I am not really clear as to what you mean. What I was stating was the fact that here on the East Coast, the 3-series is so heavily sought after for what I consider "the wrong reasons" ie "look at me" that it is not something we wish to participate in.
As far as the car itself, it would have been her car, not mine. A little too small for me on a full time basis.
Hope that clears things up.
and both felt lighter than older versions. I am surprised to hear that the 325 never had this issue and it has only been witnessed on the 330. In either case, I'm getting a MY2001 model, which should have been corrected at least somewhat as you mentioned. I put in a call to my dealer last night, she said she was going to check with
the service dept/management and get back to me. I'll make sure to post her response, she's been very good to me so far. They do offer winter tire storage by BTW, against a small fee
though.
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As you pointed out from your test drive, you felt that the 325 also had "light" steering. This is the general consensus among enthusiasts - compared to the 323, the 325 is light. However, as far as I know (and I try to keep up-to-date), BMW has not come out and said that the steering in the 325 is light.
I would be interested to hear what your service manager has to say on the subject.
still feels tighter than almost any other comparable out there (except maybe the s4) but i really noticed the difference the other day when i drove a friend's 99 528.
anyway, i ordered a 330xi so we'll see what happens when i get it.
anyone else with newer cars been contacted by bmw?
Anyway, I thought it would be helpful if I shared this bit of information. I moved to Austin three years ago from out-of-state. At the time, my Z3 was only one year old. I have taken it to JR for service throughout its warranty and even post-warranty. Each and every time, JR has given me a loaner car (although it is not a BMW). Enterprise is contracted and has an on-site office at JR; they handle all the loaner cars. Typically you get a Japanese or Korean econobox. Never when making my appointment have I had a service representative question where I purchased the car from. If they have recently changed their policy, then shame on them, but as I said, it has not been a problem for me.
For first-time buyers: if you are ordering, try to get a Purchase Order from the dealer. This is very similar to the final Purchase Contract that you'll have to sign and it states all the options on the car, all fees, etc. Mine even has the 5.9% financing rate written on it. If you don't have it in writing, you don't have a deal. The dealer has no obligation to sell to you and they can always bump you off if they happen to find someone that offers them more money for the car when they get it on their lot. A Purchase Order will and is the only way to protect you well. Also, a small deposit (say, $500) will help seal the deal. $1,500 over invoice is a good deal for any 3-series, assuming it includes DAG, MACO, etc. fees.
3-series vs. 5-series is purely a function of personal preference and how thick your wallet is. To me, there is no good reason to go with the 5-series unless you have more than two kids or you are a big person. Bigger is not always better - otherwise the Crown Victoria would be more expensive than a Porsche. Also, be VERY careful buying supposedly new cars with 600 miles on them. All you need is one aggressive driver like me to take it out for a 1/2 hr spin and you can say the car's been "broken in" before it reaches 50 miles on the odometer. Those first 1,000 miles are very important on your BMW.
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330i
Metallic Paint
Sunroof
Sports Package
In-dash CD
US MSRP on this car including $645 D&H is $37,560. The Euro MSRP on this car is $2380 less, or $35,180. Anyone can purchase a car at Euro MSRP without haggling. These are the prices set by BMW (as you said, I believe the pricing for the various models can be found on their website).
Here's where it gets interesting: similar to a US invoice price, there is also a Euro invoice price. Some dealers are willing to negotiate up from the Euro invoice price. Others will not and tell you that since you're already getting a discount, there is no more room for negotiation. Don't believe them!! The Euro invoice price on my car is $31,585. This is calculated by taking the Euro invoice on a base 330i ($28,450), adding the US invoice on all options, and tacking on $645 for D&H.
My deal was at $1400 above Euro invoice, or $31,585 + $1400 = $32,985. Had I chosen to pick up the car at the dealer, this would have been the price (plus tax of course). My dealer does not add any additional charges such as MACO advertising, or excessive documentation fees.
However, since I did not want to fly to NJ to take delivery and drive it back to Texas, my saleperson arranged a courtesy delivery for me at a local dealer. (Needless to say, it was not JR but another one about 60 miles away). The courtesy dealer will typically charge $500 for this, but my salesperson was able to negotiate a price of $250. So, in essence, my 330i with the options listed will run $32,985 + $250 = $33,235 (plus tax). And I get the pleasure of flying to Germany to take delivery at its "birthplace" next week. The only downside is that I have to wait six more weeks after dropping it off before it makes its way back to the States.
Try to take that dealership to court if he does not deliver. Then again, don't bother, you will be wasting your time.
btw, if the 5.9% offer expires before your car comes in, you will not get that either.
I should also note that, unlike Edmunds, I found the power increase with the 330i very impressive. The loaner was an automatic and I drive a stick but even so, I could really feel the extra torque at low revs. If it were me, I would get the steering change. You'll have the best of both worlds, the old steering and the new more powerful engine.
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I agree with you on the steering issue - I'd love to have the older 328 heavy steering in my new 325i, that's if I could choose.
I drove both a 330i and a 325i manual when test-driving. The power from the 330i is absolutely effortless and exhilarating. On paper, it doesn't go much faster than the 328i, though (2/10 sec difference with manuals), although you feel the extra 35 horses right underneath your feet. The 330i is much heavier that the 328 - I think by maybe about 300 lbs. The 325i has adequate power for spirited driving - as long as it's with manual transmission (1 sec diff with the auto: 7.1 vs. 8.1 sec). In mid-range, though, I'm guessing the 330 may have an even bigger advantage over the 328, as weight matters relatively less once you're up to speed.
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P.s. I hope you got some cheap tech stocks a couple of weeks ago, today's market is unstoppable.
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So, I ordered a Euro Delivery 325ci for 4% off MSRP. It boiled down to not letting a $1000 stop me from purchasing a $30K product I always wanted.
BTW - Any suggestions on what to purchase for the car in Germany? Prices are supposedly MUCH better. So far I think I want the European style clear lenses and maybe the wheel locks.
I hadn't thought you could get Euro specs through the ED delivery. What else can you get through the ED that they don't offer in the US? I'm happy for you and platypus - you'll have a lot of fun in Germany (I wanted to do the ED too but never got a good deal). Make sure to do the Romantic road up North - automobilemag.com has a great article on it.
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Folks,
I think we are all pretty intellegent here, and it is not that difficult to figure out what you are experiencing in this marketplace. It is very,very simple.
Supply and Demand.
Put your name on the BMW dealership that you are dealing with and you too would DEMAND that your sales staff get every penny that they could for as long as they could because, for the moment, the product is hot and hard to get.
They, just like us, no matter what line of work we are in, try to maximize the bottom line.
Be glad that there is room to play, try to go across the street to the three pointed star and try your mickey mouse tactics-there it is list or walk.
You are trying to buy a $35k car, what the hell is $500?
Question I have is the dealer told me that the car wont be in till June / July and the 5.9% deal is till April 30th and it extends for 60 days if i have ordered the car which will make it applicable till June 30th. So according to the dealer if the car comes in July then the 5.9% will not be applicable and the whatever the new financing rate is what i will have to accept. At that point if its not 5.9%, then I have the option to cancel the whole deal and get my 500 dollar deposit back. I find it very strange that how am i not locked at 5.9% even though I have made a $500 deposit. What alternatives do I have ? Is the dealer telling me the truth ? Honestly I dont trust them.
carguy5000 - It is definitely supply and demand in affect; however, it seems a buyer here and there will get a good deal on Euro Delivery. My experience indicated there wasn't a prayer - they would not budge, so I wasn't going to kill myself trying to get a better deal.
Well, if someone has a graph of the horsepower and torque curve for the 3-series, I'd like to get that reference. I have not seen a chart of the torque curve of any 3-series other than the old M3. The peak torque in the 325 actually dropped compared to the 323 engine in exchange for horsepower. Less low end, more top end I guess - looking at the curve would help figure that out.
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As you can see, the peak torque is less but the curve is flatter.
Man, I'm sorry to admit it (I know I may take some heat for this) but I'm laughing my head off as I'm reading the posts from the last hour. It's just too much...What happened to sense of humor, have we all lost it?
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If anyone has the change implemented, please post results! I will do the same when my number comes up.
I just put a deposit (allegedly nonrefundable) down 2 hours ago and want to take it back ASAP if I can get anywhere near your deal. Please help!
www.passportbmw.com
301.423.2700
I'm assuming this is the same dealership Platypus went to...
Sorry for the mistake. mattdahlgren is correct - Passport BMW is in MD, not NJ.
That's what I get for being an out-of-state buyer. NJ-MD-NC-VA-etc.: they're all the same anyway. Outside of the Lone Star state, does it really matter... ;-)
Let me remind everyone that the Terms of Use to which you all agreed when you joined Town Hall absolutely require civil and respectful discourse on these message boards.
I also want to point out that if you believe a member has crossed the TOU, it is totally inappropriate to argue with that member in topic. The proper course of action is very simple: you may either just ignore the flame-bait for what it is and rest assured your hosts will be along eventually to take care of the problem, or you may choose to email either or both of your hosts (our names are linked to our profiles with email addresses at the top of the Sedans discussion list) and/or use the Online Support link on the left sidebar.
Just one more thing - this issue cannot be discussed here, and any further posts relating to the problem will be removed. If anyone wants to talk about this anymore, please feel free to email me.
Thank you.
Pat
Host
Sedans and Women's Auto Center Message Boards
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I own a brand-new 328i Sport Sedan with the HK + CD upgrade. There is NO QUESTION in my mind that the system is worth the $600 cost. My qualifications? I'm a pure audiophile. I am comming off of owning a USAC competition vehicle which had an ~$12,000 stereo system. I own a home theater system which rivals that. Not to brag, just to explain. I know and love audio, and have for years.
There is no question. The HK system is not a $2000 car audio solution. It's not meant to be. It's not a $1000 solution. It's a $600 solution. Under no circumstances can you walk into ANY store and purchase an equivilant system and get it installed for $600.
Here's SOME of what you'd have to purchase to equate the HK system, and some equivilant prices from Crutchfield:
Two 6x9 subwoofer speakers. Price: $160 ($80 each - a stinking Bazooka 6" tube sub is $99 each, so I'm very reasonable here)
Two 50x4 amplifiers. Price: $400 (The 50x4 Jensen(!) amplifier is $180).
Installation of two subs in rear deck, including cut-out work and wiring: $75
Installation of two amplifiers, including line-level wiring to match stock units and wiring to speakers & subs: $125
That is $760 just to attempt to MATCH the quality of the HK system (and I'm not trying to improve, just to match). That says nothing of the speed sensitive volume, the careful matching to the factory system, the factory-integration look (no messy wires or chop-shop jobs) AND you don't have to be without your car for a few days while the local audio shop installs the gear.
There is no question, you can build a MUCH better system for $2000. But for $600, you can't beat the performance offered by the HK system.
It's not perfect, but it sounds great at moderate to reasonably-high volumes. It's not going to blast out at people a mile away... but neither is a $2000 system. It will distort if you turn the bass all the way up on dynamic music and then turn the volume louder than it should be. But as a true audiophile, I can say that the stereo suits my driving needs entirely, and saved me a lot of money in the process. I'm very happy with it, and I would recommend it to everyone ordering a new bimmer.
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The reason why I am out of lurk mode is that I have finally narrowed my car search to the 325Ci. Looking at Topaz Blue/black 'ette with CD, Xenon and Sunroof and shooting for at least 1000 off MSRP (inferred from all posts here). I am in West Mich right now. Had an interesting car shopping process where I started off looking at Subarus and graduated to A4 1.8T Quattro and finally decided 'what the heck, you only live once and ante up to the Bimmer. Besides, always loved them all my life and those UDE events I have attended on few ocassions still are burning in my heart. :-)
1) Tried to look up what changes the 2002 model yr. would bring? No luck...anybody have further details on the 2002s. I am thinking of ordering in June/July pending proceeds from sale of property. Since I am ordering at that time, could I still order a 2001.5? Do I have to order a 2002? Should I wait for the 2002...? I know if I ordered the 2002 there should be less leeway in terms of pricing vs. 2001.5s, right? But if the changes are nice enough, I wouldn't mind...
2) I was in the market for AWD cars, but after reading all the posts on xi v. i's I decided a Bimmer HAS to be RWD and felt confident that DSC and ASC-T plus a decent set of Winter tires should put RWD Bimmer on equal footing (at least) with AWD Bimmers and the Quattros. I know there has been extensive discussions on this one, and I am not looking to get into them once more but all those posts that say RWD Bimmer plus Winters are capable in MI winter conditions, are those based on winter-experienced drivers?. I just moved here (from FL) and am worried about slush/ice, had a scary experience with ice just 2 days ago (Eclipse on summer tires, who would have thought snow and ice in mid-April). Plus, my wife is an overenthusiastic driver and I worry about her next winter, that is why I was thinking AWD plus winters. Do you think that I should go with RWD plus DSC and ASC and winters after all or go with AWD plus DSC plus ASC plus winters (sounds extreme :-)....
3) Are the lead times longer for the Ci's?
4) What options are desirable in re-sale...still leaning heartily to the Ci but thinking what options should I get on top of the ones I am thinking of...
5) SC delivery? Would it affect pricing at dealer and incereas lead time? From the post I read, it sure sounds good...I do not have time for ED but figured SC would be just as close...are they available on the 3s though?
6) Any insights on dealers in the West MI areas? After reading all the negatives on few BMW dealers, I start to worry about dealing with bad BMW dealers and would like to save time abd blood pressure and go to the ones that are recommended here as I have full faith in all the posters here. What about on-line sites to get the ball rolling? Auto-by-tel experience? Carsdirect? Not trying to be cheap but trying to avoid bad dealer experience and paying fair price (like 1000 off sticker) on my first BMW purchase. What about courtesy delivery from an out-of-state to local dealer? How feasible is that?
Well, thank you in advance for any replies. Enjoy your cars ladies and gentlemen, you have ALL made a fine choice. Looking forward to joining you soon.
Donny
That is why on top of the AWD cars I looked into (i.e. Legacys and A4 quattros), I also looked at the Acura CLs (fantastic value for money) and CPOs of MB c-class (worrying reliabilty and quality but good cars) and have posted and researched in other posts. But when it comes down to it, there is nothing out there that matches the visceral stirrings of a BMW straight six. Nothing.
I like to think of myself as a rational consumer and am fortunate that I am getting into a financial position (for the first time) to buy a really nice car i.e. good handling, safety features etc, hence the out-there shopping process. My wife's totally given up on me as I change my mind every other day :-) and been hitting the books to move around stuff to buy into a higher price line (I've moved up to the low 30s, yippeee). But after reading the posts on this board I am definitely getting the 3er and am happy about being able to (unless I venture off to the 5 series boards and convince myself to survive on Mac n Cheese and Ramen noodles to park a 540i 6 speed in the garage :-)...somebody stop me please!!. To be honest, there were some posts here that convinced me that I couldn't live with myself if I didn't get the 3er. :-) Thank you.
I love Bimmers, not because of the prestige or otherwise but for the car in itself. My family has always been Bimmer ppl e.g. my uncle has a 3,5, 7 and an 8 and I have been fortunate to drive/sample 3s, 5s, and 7s thanks to family and friends as well BMW's Ultimate Driving Experience and the Kommen Charity drives. But I remain unbiased but IMHO, the BMW's six sounds and feel are as disticnctive in the current bountiful market place of fine cars as the Ferrari 8s and 12s.
Just rambling on as usual but sharing my two cents...sorry. Have a nice day, everybody!
Donny
I will just briefly discuss one aspect of your post that the link doesn't talk to: prestige and badging. I've taken some heat on this board for mentioning that I do care about prestige in a car, although it's 80% sport and 20% prestige. First the facts: my 325i does not have the premium package, the leather or wood. Its emphasis is on sport (sport package, xenons). Let me explain better what I mean by prestige. To me, prestige is somewhat synonymous with RESPECT. I will not get into a philosophical discussion of what respect is. Let me just give you an example and you'll know what I mean. I've had a Jetta VR6 for 4 years. This car goes 0 to 60 in 6.9 sec and has a lot of punch at any speed - enough to give ANY other car out there a run for the money. It handles very well with the Z-rated all-season Dunlop SP5000s that I put on it. But every time I'm in the fast lane going faster than the Sunday driver in front of me, they won't get out of my way (I never ever tailgate) and I end up weaving in traffic to get through. Driving my wife's A4, I typically don't have that problem - pretty much everyone gets out of the way, although a little slow. When drivers see a BMW coming in the fast lane, they get out of your way before you've even approached them. They KNOW to get out of your way. And a lot of them try to keep up with you after you've passed them because they all wanna keep up with that beautiful, graceful car. I like that. Most people care about prestige/respect in different forms but they won't admit it. Well, I'm talking as I'm walking, I think Bob Marley would agree with me.
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To answer your question #2:
I think the RWD plus winters would be fine in Michigan. I live in the Detroit area and have recently moved from Boston so I guess you can call me an experienced winter driver, however, that doesn't mean that if you came from Florida you cannot drive in snow. Just be careful and watch the people around you. And if you see a SUV or truck (around 70% of all vehicles in MI) going 20 miles per hour faster than you, let them go. Half a mile down they will be the ones in the ditch (SUV and truck drivers even in MI think that they are invincible in the snow. They still don't get it). If you are worried about your wife's enthusiastic driving I would get the winter tires. But to be honest with you I was talking to a salesman just yesterday and he told me that he drove a 325i with all-season tires in this winter's Detroit snow and he had no problem. I in the process of finalizing a deal with this salesman and I will go with the all-season tires, initially. I trust myself with all-season tires even in MI winters. But, if for some reason my comfort level goes down I will get winter tires. You can order them for about $370 total including shipping for a set of four good winter tires. You just pay for the mounting which is not much. I hope this helps.
http://www.bimmer.org/3series/messages/messages/93720.html
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