BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

kominsky

Colin nailed it... the M5 wheels for $599 are replica's. It would be safe to assume they're not up to BMW OEM quality, but for a winter setup, that's not too important to me. As for the Wheel Exchange itself, I really don't know much except their feedback on Ebay is all positive.

jkneon

Hello all,

This is Joe, I am a total Bimmer newbie but a soon to be owner ... hehehe (Geee, it is exciting!!) Okay, my wife and I are looking for a brand new 2003 BMW 330xi, nothing fancy just these options (Power/memory seats/mirror $1800) and (Split fold down seat with centre armrest $660) in Canadian dollars.

The saleman offered to check if there is any 2002 model around with those specs, we are looking for a white one but unfortunately there was none left. So, instead of 2003 white model, he offered us a 2002 Titanium Silver one, it is in stock but I am not sure if it is a floor model. Here are the specs anyway.

2002 BMWxi Sedan ($49700)
205 Automatic transmission ($1200)
508 park distance control ($430)
910 Sport package ($2000)
354 Titanium Silver ($800)
438 Wood trim ($585)
904 Preium package ($5300)
N6SW Black Leather (incl. in Premium package)

The base price total is $60015 for all of the above, he offered $56114 to us. (ALL in CANADIAN DOLLARS)

I want to know if this is a good deal ? I mean is it a steal ?
How can you tell if it is a floor model ? I can't check the odometer since floor model is not necessary a demo car.
Any Canadian owner wanna share their Bimmer buying expriences?
Anyone willing to throw in some pricing you paid for your 330xi?
Anything I need to know about for buying a Bimmer ? anything I need to pay attention to especially buying this one the saleman offered?

Please help out this newbie, reply to this group or you can email me at tgx.trf@nospam.rogers.com (Remove nospam.)

Thanks in advance

JK

dl7265

Any one in Tx or near Dallas , my neighbor business is a wheel place and they have a set of star spoke sport package wheels. it the same set thats on ,my 1999 Sport. If any one is interested ill ask about a price on them.

DL

1pierce

Been driving my new 325i for about a week, now. I'm trying really hard not to offer too many opinions/reviews on the car until I've at least passed the break-in period. I always hate to read reviews on consumer sites that are very detailed and specific, and then you look at the review and notice that the person has had the car or items for a week. Not even long enough for the "new" to wear off.

Some general comments, though:

1. One option I'm VERY glad I got is the xenons. If you're waffling on it, just get them. They blow away the headlights on my brother's 2000 323i. They almost look like the high beams are on (I had to keep checking), with a MUCH wider/longer throw, and generally brighter illumination. With these, I don't even need the fog lights. I'd pay double for these (although I'm glad I didn't have to!). After one week, I can't imagine ever buying another new car that doesn't offer low-beam xenons.

2. One option I'm glad I didn't get is leather. The leatherette is the nicest synthetic seat material I've ever seen in a car. It feels as good as the leather in my Maxima, and looks very authentic. My brother's leather looks/feels a little different, but if you didn't sit in both cars back-to-back, you would never know that mine wasn't real leather (except for a little back-sweating that probably would have happened this week, even with real leather). Also, the 'ette seems more durable (less likely to tear or mark), and is less slippery without velcro-ing you into your seat. The car also has a more distinct "new car" smell without the leather, that I remember from my cars with cloth seats. My advice to Bimmer buyers on a budget - save $1,400 on the leather and get xenons and a metallic color instead.

1pierce

Esq1: The two most maintenance free colors I've owned are silver and red.

White (we have a white, mono-chromatic Caravan SP - imagine a giant egg with wheels) always looks pretty clean, but if you get droppings, tar, or other high visibility grime on the car, and can't clean it off quickly, it will stain. Our white van also picked-up some weird bluish marks on the rear quarter panel that I can't get off, even with a hard solvent.

Silver (or another light metallic) is similar to white, but doesn't show quite as many marks/stains. Red doesn't show acid rain, water marks, small scratches, or dust as much as the dark colors - and unlike white, silver, and variations of the same - is a real color. Its also a very deep color, unlike white. You don't want a dark color. I had a black metallic car that sat outside 24/7, and after a year or two - it looked like crap (and that was back when I could wash it every week or two in the summer).

I guess if I were in your situation (24/7 outside), I'd get silver or some variation.

brave1heart

I have the black 'ette and in the 15 months that I've had the car, I have not had to do anything to it. The car still smells like new and the seats look brand-new. I am very glad I got the vinyl seats.

It doesn't sound like you've pushed the car in corners yet - there's no break-in period for that, you know...

ghost78

I live in the upper Midwest and my local dealer
started out last night by offering me at least $1500 off MSRP on 2002 325i's and xi's. They were told to do whatever it takes to move the 30 2002 that they have comming in in the next few weeks.
What a change from past experiences.

huntzinger

My general rule of thumb is that narrower is better, because you're trying to get down through the snow cover to the pavement underneath to gain your traction.

Generally speaking, this means that you're also going to want to get the smallest diameter rim that will fit over your brakes.

Insofar as the trade-off between winter-dry and winter-bad traction, its a philisophical question of where do you want your trade-offs. My opinion on that is that I want to minimize the performance loss under the conditions that I need it the most - ie, trashy weather, so I'd trade off winter dry performance to make winter-bad performance as good as possible.

- - -

And here's my NY/NJ climate info, based on a couple of decades of firsthand experience:

We typically have 3-4 mild winters, then we get nailed like something you wouldn't believe. Completely off the top of my head, 1965, 69, 72, 76, 78, 82, 86, 92, and 96? were all pretty noteworthy years.

Currently, we're overdue. And contemporarily, I'm beginning to believe/suspect that our bad winters might corrolate to El Niño years.

And as you're probably aware, the folks at NOAA have been watching the Equatorial Pacific *very* closely this year. Currently, we're officially in an El Nino flow, with around a -3F surface temperature variance.

http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/s938.htm

 

My very simplest rule of thumb is that if NYC has a "White Christmas", get ready for big snows in February.

-hh

tcn2k

"The car also has a more distinct "new car" smell without the leather, that I remember from my cars with cloth seats. My advice to Bimmer buyers on a budget - save $1,400 on the leather and get xenons and a metallic color instead. "

1. The distinct smell is the plastic like smell, coming from the leatherette you got. I couldn't stand that smell.

"The two most maintenance free colors I've owned are silver and red."

2. I own white and silver and prefer both. White is great and doesn't stain if you wax the car. It looks more luxurious then silver in my view.

rshaw11

I have to set the AC temp. to 65 degrees to get the actual inside temperature down to about 72 degrees. Is this normal, or can the dealer change the setting indicator?

nissancar

Hi,
I am deciding between 3.25i and 325xi. The difference in price is about $2k with RWD and AWD difference but the overall power of both the cars is of course the same. With that in mind, how much difference would it make as regarding fun to drive and giving performance between the two of the same family. Can you give me suggestion which one would be wiser choice as value for money. Is the difference worth 2k!
Thanks
Zad

1pierce

tcn2k: If I had an extra $1,400, I'd have gotten leather - that would have been my next option because I like the brown/black leather w/electric red, that doesn't come in 'ette. That said, IMO, I don't think it is worth the money, and I kind of like the "new car" smell that you get from the plastics. My Maxima with leather hardly ever had that smell. I guess its all a matter of opinion. I would still recommend to other buyers that the leather is one area where you can save money or trade for other options you may get more value out of.

nissancar: I drove both with step. The xi was noticeably more reluctant to jump out from a stop. It hits you hardest where it hurts most, at low RPM, i.e., in everyday around town driving. My 325i is not reluctant at all. I'd personally never compromise the 325 with the added weight/drag of the AWD system, at least where I live. But,...some people here would say that about step, so, to each his own.

huntzinger: I take the opposite approach to winter. I outfit my car for the 95% of winter when the roads don't have deep snow, and compromise enough on traction to just get by on the two or three bad days of the winter. I'm a pretty good bad weather driver, though, so I think its worth the risk.

brave: My owner's manual says that there is a break-in period for the tires and brakes. I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, but those issues, combined with wanting to keep RPM's under 4500, will keep me from testing the car in hard turns until after the break-in period. The 100 mph thing,...I think I'll be OK on!

General: This 91 octane requirement sucks! I've never bought the most expensive gas in the station before in my life. The damn stuff costs 25 cents a gallon more than what I put in my van. But, I'll do it anyway, because it will bug me to think I'm depriving my wonderful engine of even one ounce of horsepower.

palladon

I just bought a 2002 325i, last week, Monday, 19 August 2002. I paid 4.6% about Edmond.com invoice price. Before I bought the car, I spoke with several Auto Brokers to get an idea of their cost and what I would expect to pay for the car. I was told that I should expect to pay about 2 - 5% above invoice price. The auto broker mentioned that between 2-5% (closer to 5%) for a BMW was very good. If you are buying off the lot you may want to push them as close to 2% as possible. Palladon

erickpl

As an owner of a 325xi, I would say go for the xi.

Like 1pierce said, there is some added weight associated with the AWD system, but I personally find that the xi gets up and goes, even with luggage and my family of 4 in the car. I've never had a problem with accelleration (at least it is enough for me) even when accellerating up mountainous roads where I live.

If you live in an area where your biggest concern is rain, then you may want to stick with the 325i and use that 2K for more goodies, like XM radio, and other fun stuff. But if you have snow and ice to worry about, then the xi is a good choice.

Keep in mind, the 325xi Sport Package is NOT the same as the 325i Sport Package, with the main differences being the tire/wheel width, ride height, and suspension. I personally find the xi's sport package perfect for me. I'm not that crazy of a driver, though my wife might argue that. If you want something with a more aggressive/lower stance, the 325i may meet your needs.

Your primary thoughts here are: where am I driving and how am I driving?

Either way, you will be picking an excellent car that you will enjoy driving.

My car:

2002 325xi SP, CWP, 1/2 PP, 5sp

xenon

Oxford Green/Natural Brown

XM radio

tint

http://community.webshots.com/user/skimblz_

-Paul

brave1heart

The break-in for new tires is ~500 miles. I think it is closer to 200 for brakes but you don't really need brakes for hard cornering. I was good about keeping my car under 4,500 RPM's during the break-in but I was tossing it in corner from day. And unlike those of you who are leasing, I am keeping mine for ~10yrs/200K miles (whichever comes first).

As far as the '91 octane' requirement, 91 is the minimum. I've always put in 93 in both the 325 and the A4. You get better mileage with high octane fuel, so it probably costs the same in the end but the car does perform better.

How's the red color, are you gettng a lot of attention with it )

tchoo

I have the leatherette too and I love it. Its practically maintenance free. But there's a downside. As the vinyl and the other plastics in your car age, they give off fumes that cause a greasy residue on the insides of your windows. Its especially visible in the inside of your rear window. I've tried everything to get it out, soapy water, rain-x, windex, liquid dawn, wet cloth... so far nothing's worked. My last resort is to try newspaper.

genie1

Try a 50/50 mix of vinegar/water with black-ink newspaper (works best with paper that's a few days old). It works very well as long as you do a thorough job.

markjenn

I go the other way - unless you have a good reason to need the extra foul-weather traction of the AWD, don't get it. All the reviews of the xi and commented that it is not as fun to drive as the i model - more weight, more drivetrain inertia, more drag, more understeer, poorer fuel mileage, and a more complex car with additional things to have maintenance issues.

Now I don't doubt that in wet weather, you can get more power to the ground, and there are certainly snow situations where you'd be stuck in the RWD, but motor on with AWD. But in day-to-day driving, everything I've read says the RWD is the more enjoyable to drive car. The RWD also rides lower and, from what I understand, has sportier tires and suspension settings for the sport package version.

Of course, if you really need AWD, then you really need it. If I lived in New England for example, and had to use my BMW to get to work every day, I wouldn't hesitate for a second.

Having said all this, I've never driven an xi. But I have driven a lot of A4's and while they all are extremely stable and sure-footed, they understeer like crazy and aren't very tossable. They are extremely competent, but not very playful.

Just my $0.02.

- Mark

tchoo

Genie1 - Thanks for the suggestion. I'll try that out. Its been driving me crazy, especially since the rear window of the E46 coupe is very sharply raked and the rear headrests get in the way making it very difficult to clean it.

cnorthrup

Try this link...

http://bmwnation.com/tech/tech_3carkeycfg_01.html

I have the same issue with the calibration of the temp control on my '02 330i. Some day I will see the dealer about adjusting it.

CNorthrup

john01

Supposedly, this stuff works the best:

http://www.carcareonline.com/porsche_glasscln_11601.html

jbreez1

I have the "ette in my 2000 323i, and being a new bimmer owner, I still notice the "new car" smell. I asked the dealer if that was the result of the detailing they did before I bought my car and they said, "no, the car always smells like that." I was looking for leather when I was buying, but the 'ette is the best looking vinyl I've ever seen and I won't tell any of my friends it's not leather.

John, thanx for the info on the glass cleaner, I have the same problem with the rear window.

Jbreez1

john01

When that smell wears out, you can always go to the Griot's Garage for the "New Car Scent Fragrance".

cmnott

Do you also wear fake jewelry? :-)

john01

Apparently people do buy those stuff, as well as the fake jewelry.

1pierce

brave: Truth be told, I haven't yet really had my car on a road where I could safely test the suspension and handling. That suits me fine. I'll baby it for the first 1,200 miles (I'm already a third of the way there - and I'm a patient man). I need to get used to the overall feel (haven't had RWD AND a car that controls body motion this well in a long time - like EVER). In normal driving, I love the way it stays flat in turns, and yet has a very nice ride. Its also very quiet inside at highway speeds - an added bonus for a sporty car.

The red color w/black interior is what makes everybody's eyes fall out. I can almost see the drool drip from their mouths when my friends, acquaintances, and neighbors see it for the first time. I have to wipe the front side windows everyday after work to get finger, forehead and nose smudges off the glass from people looking in at the parking garage. I know color preference is subjective, but you must admit, no color attracts wistful glances like bright (or in this case "electric") red. You guys don't know what you're missing.

Gas: Some stations in my area don't have 93 octane. Most have only 87, 89, and 91. I've heard that Sunoco 93 octane is the best (certain additives that the others don't have). I'll stick with 91 octane, and probably use the 93 if I'm at Sunoco. Gas mileage hasn't been too good, yet - first tank. My Maxima got 23 mpg in normal driving. The 325 is averaging about 16 in heavy city driving. The engine is new, though, and I've never had a car that hit its gas mileage peak prior to five thousand miles. Again, I'm patient.

new car smell: I read somewhere that the new car smell is bad for you. I agree. That new car smell that many of us love - I'm sure is slowly killing our brain cells with out-gases. So what. I don't expect to live forever, and most of us are killing many more brain cells watching reality TV. I think the average driver is more likely to get plowed by an SUV than die early from environmentally insensitive plastics.

kominsky

I got the new Bimmer magazine yesterday and The Wheel Exchange has a full page add in it. I realize this doesn't guarantee that they are scrupulous business people, but I personally feel a little better with the realization that a shady guy working out of the back of a pickup truck probably wouldn't spend that kind of money on advertising.

rabright

I just confirmed that my 2003 330Ci that I ordered less than 2 weeks ago has had the production date moved from 09/20 to 09/06. I called and I went to code 150 2 days ago and should be 151 very shortly. I never even got to see the code 112, it moved up so fast.

Evidently, the first batch of 2003s is set for 09/06 production date, so my baby will be rolling off as one of the first.

Anyone else on here get moved up? Several folks at bimmerfest got moved up 1 or 2 weeks. Maybe they cut their vacations short.

brave1heart

I like it in red but my type of driving requires a much less conspicuous color )

pap5

I've had my car to Sterling a couple of times, most recently just yesterday for a throttle pedal replacement. I've been pleased with the quality of the work and the treatment I've received. Have no experience with the others.

jean7of9

I am also shopping aggressively for a 03 330xi. My dealer did not get the 03 prices yet from BMW Canada and do not know when they will be available. The discount you got for the 02 is fair for an end of year model and is close to dealer invoice. But is not a kill because BMW are giving incentives to clear their dealers lot. Also since the 02 leftovers are rare you are very lucky to find one with the colors and options you like. If the odometer is less than 100 km then consider the car is new. Of course this milage may increase when the car must be driven from a distant dealer. If you wait for the 03 model then expect to have a discount of $1-1.5k over MSRP and remember the 03 model should come with a 4 years free maintenance like in USA. Good luck and let us know what you decide.
Jean

abcnyc

Thanks for the feedback on Sterling. Do they provide loaner cars for service work ?

vkwheels

The dealer said to use 89--the middle grade--nothing less nor nothing more. My mileage is around 22mpg. Performance seems to be o.k. to me. I confess I didn't "RTFM" so did I miss something? I don't recall seeing 93 octance, & Sunoco is an uncommon brand in LA/Orange counties. I use Chevron usually, but others if need be.

1pierce

brave: I understand completely. You should try the deep metallic green that my Maxima was. That car was damn near invisible!

vk: The 2002 manual clearly says 91 octane (I don't remember the page number, but I could look it up). The gas filler area has a plaque/sticker that also says 91 octane. I used 89 in my Maxima, and was a little surprised that it wasn't recommended for the BMW. I probably would notice no difference with 89 octane, but I'll probably keep using 91-93 - just because BMW says to, and they know best, right?

mfeldman

As is common my 330 sport rear tires will wear out soon at about 22k. The front will have about 10k or more left. So do I get 2 or 4. I don't want to use the OEM contis and want to go with Bridgestone 730s, a good aggressive tire at a good costco price. So "mixing brands" is an issue. Thanks.

brave1heart

What, the dealer was wrong?!? Noooo, that's impossible ) I think octane varies by region - up here in New England, the most common grades are 89, 91, and 93. Most Sunocos carry 94, which I have never used and do not intend to. You can also get even higher grade fuel at some gas stations near airports or racing fuel at stations close to tracks like NHIS. I think I remember reading that in areas with high elevation like Colorado, the grade is typically lower. But I am surprised to hear that there is no 93 octane in Orange County, CA...

mfeldman - I would NOT mix tire brands. If you want to go with Bridgestone 730s (great tire for the money, BTW!!), you should replace all of them.

mfeldman

What's the real reason for not mixing? The sales mwn say it. Intuitively it seems right to me. But a friend has 730s on the rear and older contis in the front and says all is fine (tho he bought the car used and the tires came that way).

brave1heart

- possibly unstable at higher speed because of the different tread pattern and tire handling characteristics
- possibly poorer braking...

More knowledgeable posters may have more precise data to back this up Think you go jogging with two different types of sneakers - you may be a little unstable too )

hiddendragon

I also found yesterday that my scheduled production date has been moved to 9/6. A very nice supprise!

rebright,what's the code 150/151/121 you are talking about?

hpowders

I just got my new 325 in silver. Red just attracts too much of the wrong kind of attention like "smoky" if you catch my drift. I had no trouble getting past the 1250 mile break-in period-8 days. What I did find excrutiating since I am 6'2" was finding a comfortable driving position with the regular bucket seat. It took me 2 weeks but I finally found one that doesn't put my back in traction after an hour-thankfully saved in memory. You would think for the price, lumbar support would be included. Does anyone know if the sports seats are more easy on the lower back than the regular seats? I had a 1993 325 and found the regular driver's seat comfortable. I read that the 525 has very comfortable seats. After this lease is up I will probably upgrade to the 525. Anyone else out there find the 325 seats especially uncomfortable? Thanks.
Howard

brave1heart

My understanding is that the sport seats (at least the manual ones that I have in my 325i) come with lumbar support built in. Our A4 has adjustabale lumbar support but I only use about 1/4 of its max setting.

nissancar

pierce1, markjenn, markjenn:
Thanks for your comments. It looks I want i more than the xi now. I wouldn't bother much about the wheather conditions, after all I started off with eyes on maxima.

My BMW dealer here in new england is very pushy though and infect he was quite against sports package and in favour of premium package (I am not sure why!). Basic options I want is power seats, sunroof and permium sterio. Can you please tell me why would I need the 17 inch tires if I have to go with the sports package? The Audi dealer told me bigger wheels look nice.

ghost78:
The percentage you are talking about is based on what exactly?

bmw323is

nissancar - dealers push the premium package because that is what they order for lot cars and it is more expensive (more profit). And they want to sell those cars as quickly as possible to reduce interest costs.

kominsky - what Bimmer magazine are you referring to? The quarterly BMW magazine or Roundel? I spent a bit of time on The Wheel Exchange website. Their price on "replica" type 68 wheels is $175 while BMW charges $440 for the real thing. That is quite a difference - 2.5 times the cost. Is this normal?

Sport package tires - for those that have Z rated rubber, why not rotate tires front to back one-time at 13,000 to 15,000 miles and get an extra 10,000 miles on the set? I did. Had absolutely no ill effects in handling, noise, etc. At least do it for the good of the earth!

Brave - you are right that octane ratings are different at higher altitude. Here in Colorado, we have 85, 87 and 91 octane ratings. Also mileage increases at altitude. On a raod trip in the mountains last weekend I drove 560 miles on a tank of gas - 38 mpg and I didn't baby it!

markjenn

My experience is that dealers push what they have to sell. They know that once you leave the lot without a committment to buy, that their chances of making a sale go down drastically.

I'd just order a car.

17-inch wheels make the handing quite a bit crisper - the tires have about the same overall diameter as 16-inch wheels, so they have shorter sidewalls. They just tilt the balance away from ride and towards better handling.

- Mark

kominsky

"Bimmer" is the name of the magazine. It's pretty good... not as good as Roundel, but alot better than BMW magazine which seems like one giant ad for watches.

As for the replica prices at The Wheel Exchange, the AT Italia Type 5 (BMW M-Contour replica) is $149 (17X8.5) at TireRack and the real BMW wheel is $545 at Circle BMW. That's more than 3.5X. Again, I would imagine the reps are heavier, and the finishes probably aren't up to quite the same standards, but that doesn't matter too much to me for a winter wheel which is likely to get covered with salt and possibly even bank off a curb every now and then.

john01

It may not matter too much in the states where average cars rarely exceed triple-digit speed. However, there have been cases reported in Germany where a Porsche driver (with aftermarket wheels) had a wheel split while he was cruising at 150 mph+. Not a pretty sight. Replica wheels seem to have not only not-as-good finish, but also the quality of the metal can be questionable. There is a reason the originals are more expensive in this case.

pap5

Yes, Sterling provides loaners. They have a limited supply of BMWs (I've gotten a 325i each time I've used them), supplemented by an onsite Enterprise franchise -- I believe the policy is that they'll cover the first day's rental cost.

riez

"Bimmer, The Magazine About BMW" is now up to their 30th issue, Nov '02. Comes out monthly, "except for Jan, Mar, Jul, Sep", for total of 8 issues annually. By Ross Publishing (415-382-0580). $4.99 cover price. Basic subscribtion rate is $19.99, but believe you can get a discounted rate on the inside subscription card. Doesn't appear they have a web site but you can e-mail them at bimmer@rossperiodicals.com. Subscription correspondence goes to Bimmer Circulation, PO Box 1529, Ross, CA 94957. Their masthead says "BIMMER is not associated with BMW, or its distributors or dealers."

Usually have a lot of interesting articles, plus a nice Tech Q&A section. Current issue has articles on everything from new Z4 (the cover story) to the Euro-spec X5 3.0d to BMW Mobile Tradition to the Dingolfing plant to a history of Glas Automobiles (company BMW purchased in 1966 and took over in 1967 to get their Dingolfing plant).

kominsky

hahaha! That's impressive! Any chance you're employed by Ross Publishing? :-)

kominsky

Thanks for the input on the strength of replica wheels. This would be a major concern if I was looking for new 9-month wheels, but I'm thinking that with winter tires on the car, extremely high speeds are not likely to be encountered. I would imagine that ALL wheels would have to meet some minimum govt. standard for safety... anyone know for sure?