BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

getz1

Thanks for the reply about rpms at 70-75 mph. 3000 rpm sounds correct for that speed, I wonder if the other fellow simply forgot he was in fourth on his test drive, who knows. My 323i with automatic would spin around 2600-2800.
-Getz

seivwrig

Where is your transmission at the time of loss? is it in position D, or S or Manual. What is the temperature or climate where you live? How long have you had the car? My guess is that you probably have it in D when this occurs. The adaptive transmission could be learning. I hate the D position even though more gas can be saved while leaving the transmission in this position, but the car seems less responsive.

jrct9454

...have the dealer check the OBD for codes, and check everything related to the throttle/trans interface. There are computer connections in there that could easily account for the symptoms described [periodic loss of power].

I can assure you that this has nothing to do with the transmission "learning"...this is a defect of some kind, probably electronic.

div2

Well, I also like the guys in the thread who jump him for turning off the traction control- it's like they consider the car to be undriveable without it...

tenet1

My car is very responsive in D, S, and M modes, and thats the way it should be.

Are you always using premium gasoline?

tomekk

Getz1,

you're not paying attention. Postoak wrote
"I have a 325i manual. If memory serves, at 70 mph the engine is turning at 3,000 rpm in 5th. I can confirm that on my drive in tomorrow."

I'd like to know what the RPMs are at 75mph. I remember from my test drive of 325i manual wagon (2002) they were around 3600 and the engine drone was really bothering me.

Would 330i rev lower?

Anybody who knows for sure???

Thanks,
Tomek

erickpl

I recall from posts a while back that the gearing on the 325 and the 330 is such that the 325 will actually turn higher RPM's than the 330, given the same tranny and speed. As a result the 330 has a bit better mileage. I wish I could recall who posted that or even have a post number.

-Paul

kimj1

Thanks to all who have responded so far to my problem. Now to answer some of your questions. I have had my car since May 27, 2002. It currently has about 5200 miles on it. I haven't had any problems with the acceleration until just a few weeks ago. At the end of June I took a road trip by myself from Austin to Oklahoma city and it was great. The car performed beautifully. I have always used premium gas on all my cars. The octane level is 93. Normally when I am driving on the highway I put the trans. in S mode, but on this particular day it was in D. But, I have had this happen while in S also. As for where I live and the climate; I am in Austin, Tx. Since I bought the car at the end of May there really hasn't been much difference in the climate between then and now. It is always hot! When this latest incidence happened it was cloudy and about 84 degrees. Also in case you are wondering, I always run the air conditioner and I always have since I bought it. There have been very few days when I could just roll the windows down and open the sunroof.

I hope this will provide you with a little more information. Sorry I forgot some of this in the first post.

Again, Thanks to those of you who responded to my question.

Kim

tomekk

Paul,
thanks... too many posts on this forum! Difficult to find info.
Tomek

tcn2k

Your best beat is the gas. I have heard of this problem before, and it is gas related. BMW is very sensitive to the gas you put in it. On your next tank, try a different gas station and see if this happens again. It happened to my car once, never went back to that gas station again; and been running great.

toronto_dennis

Jean, I was told today that Canadian prices would be available by "early next week."

allano

Tomek,
RPM at 75mph is 3500rpm +/- 100 for a manual transmissioned 2001 330xi and 325xi wagon. I am surprised you hear any engine sound at constant speed with a 325. I spent 7 plus hours this summer at that speed and could not hear any engine noise (even with the CD player off :-). And I certainly would not call it buzzy -- more like throaty when accelerating.
I would suggest you test-drive another manual transmissioned 325 and see if you hear the engine on that car.

Alan

jean7of9

Many thanks for the info. This week-end I am going to Europe for four weeks, therefore I will decide after my return. My dealer is usually helpful and nice but was jumping like crazy recently because he lost many sales to Audi, MB and even VW-W8. They all posted their 2003 prices early August 02.
Jean

maransm

Thanks psoto for your delivery info.

Seems no one replied to second question in 19241..

Could someone sugguest me for the following?

2. Do I need to get snow tires or Spider spikes for this winter? I remember someone in this forum wrote that we don't need to replace tires or Spider Spikes if the tires are brand new. Is that true? If not, Which one am I suppose to go? Snow tires or Spider Spikes? (I do go for skiing a lot, so please consider that too)

Thanks a million!!

allano

Tomek,
To be more exact, for a MY2001 325xi wagon, engine speed at 75mph is 3250rpm (70mph is 3000 + small change and 80mph is 3500). My daughter says that her MY2001 330xi turns ~3000rpm at 75.

Alan

tomekk

Alan,
thanks for clarifying that. I feel 3500rpm at 80mph is a bit too much... somehow the car sounds strained and high-strung (I have Mazda Millenia S, it revs exactly 3000rpm at 80mph). I think it could benefit from 6th gear.
...but I'll take another 325 for a spin, in October, just to make sure. I'm doing research for replacing my Millenia in a couple of years and I want to be thorough :-)
Getz1, any comments?
Tomek

tomekk

Alan,
and it is good news about 330i - looks like different final ratio thanks to bigger engine / more torque. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and "upgrade" to 330i, however overpriced it is. Life is so short...
Tomek

postoak

I confirmed on the drive in this morning: 3000 rpm @ 70 mph and 3200 rpm at 75 mph. My speedometer reads about 1.5% high though (pretty good actually) so true 70 and 75 rpms would be slightly higher.

Highway noise for my 325i is very decent, IMO, all the way up to 134 mph indicated.

tomekk

Alan, Postoak and Getz1:

I've found the explanation for the RPMs that I saw in 325i wagon. Tech data on www.bmwusa.com shows final drive for manual 325i sedan as 3.15; wagon has final drive 3.46. That's 9.8% higher that sedan. So, if sedan revs 3200 at 75 RPM, wagon will rev 9.8% higher - or 3515 RPM.
Steptronic will rev much lower - under 3000 RPM given the fact that manual has 5th gear ratio of 1, and auto is 0.74 (true overdrive).
So, Getz1, we were both right - however unlikely it seems.
Tomek

brave1heart

My 325i manual turns 3,150 RPM's at 75 mph, 3,600 at 85 mph and 4,100-4,200 at 100 mph in fifth gear. There is only a slight wind noise while coasting at high speed and a wonderful hum from the engine while cruising. The car is designed to communicate to the driver what it's doing. If you like a car that isolates you completely from the road and noise, a Lexus would be a much better fit. The 325i has a more aggressive gearing than the 330i, which gives it relatively good performance for a car with a much smaller engine. Aggressive gearing/differential is the most effective way of improving acceleration - it comes at the expense of slightly higher RPM's at any given speed and lower top speed. According to Dinan, a differential would cut 6/10 of a second from the 330i's 0-60 time while CAI, exhaust, and software would be good for only about 3/10's. The 325i's gearing is just perfect for my driving style - it is aggressive but not to a degree that compromises drivability.

maransm - if you have all-season tires, you may be OK with them depending on where you live. If you go skiing or you live in an area that gets a lot of snow, you should invest in snow tires. Look at the Tirerack for snow tires rating. I just ordered the Dunlop M2 Sport, although the Bridgestone Blizzak LM and the Michelin Pilots are rated very similar.

1pierce

Kimj1: I read in my owner's manual that the car will not shift into 5th gear in "S" mode. From my early experience with the 325i step, that seems to be true. You said you drive on the highway primarily in "S" mode. Are you cruising at 70-80mph in 4th gear for long periods of time? At what RPM? I'm no engine tech guy, but maybe you're overworking your engine. I could be way off base here, but its just an idea.

Speedometer: I've read that BMW speedometers are somewhat fast, i.e. they read faster than what the car is actually going. Is this true, and if so, how much is it off by at around 70 mph on the dial? Anybody know?

brave1heart

Mine is very precise - maybe 1 mph higher than actual @ 70 mph (based on OBC).

dave330i

Another reason you might be hearing so much road noise could be the rear wheel well. In the sedan, it's isolated in the trunk, while in the wagon, it's open to the passenger compartment.

kimj1

Thanks for letting me know. I had no idea that S mode only went to 4th gear. I have read my manual cover to cover and still can't find where it gives this information, but I did take a look at the CDRom that I received and sure enough there was the information. I have never gone long periods of time on the highway in S, so hopefully I havent done any damage. Where I live I have to get on the highway to go just about anywhere I need to, the grocery store, out to dinner or just shopping. the good news is that every place I need to go is within 3 to 5 miles or so.

As for what the RPM's are at when cruising at 70, I am not sure but I think it is around 3000. I have only recently started noticing the RPM's since the acceleration problem started.

I think I will keep it in D mode for a while and see what happens. If I continue to have problems I will just have to make an appointment to have it looked at.

Thanks again. I am really glad to gave me this information. You may have saved me from doing some real serious damage.

Kim

mg330ci

Amazing. Must be a Joke!, I refuse to believe there are people like that on the streets, DRIVING! I bet his next purchase will be a stupid useless 4ton SUV so he can kill somebody next time!

Any way, some quotable quotes:

"I am pretty sure there is a warning specifically against that as well as putting it on the steering wheel, your face, your genitals, etc."

"Hmm... I covered my tires in slick liquid - do you think that could hurt traction? I hear that spraying Pam on your brake rotors makes them look 'hella sweet' maybe that will be your next detailing project. "

I cannot stop laughing

tcn2k

I always drive in s mode. Even on the highway and nothing wrong. The manual, i think, is incorrect. S mode shifts into 5th gears after you reach a certain mph. Unless there is a gear that is alternative to 5th in S mode, the rpm is low, about a bit less then 3000 rpm @ 80. My 325i in s mode matches the same rpm in manual 5th. I have not check, but i think D 5th as well.

I also verified this in a 330i 01 loaner that i recieved recently. I read that in the manual and didn't believe that is stops at 4th either. Can anyoine who has step explain?

erickpl

I know this is OT, but oh well.

Austin is beautiful. Have you had a chance to take your 3er on the roads out near Lake Travis? I used to see a lot of sport bikes out there, so I know you can have fun out there.

I spent many a weekend hanging out there swimming, hanging out with friends, and tubing down the Guadalupe. So is I-35 still your major thoroughfare or are they finally widening the side streets?

-Paul

kimj1

I have lived in Austin for 3 years and I have only been out to the lake 2 times. Both before I bought the car. One of these days I will have to get back out there. I have been through some of the windier roads out off 360. Great fun.

Yes, unfortunately I35 is still the major road in town. There is loop 1, which isn't a loop at all and there is 360 which is a beautiful drive. Traffic here in Austin is awful. I actually live a little north of the city so I don't have to get through town very often. My husband only works 12 miles from our house and it takes him around 45 minutes to make the trip. The only time I get into real heavy traffic is when I am taking a trip down the road a piece to San Antonio to visit family. Sometimes that is a real nightmare. But doing it in my bimmer makes it more fun!!

Kim

cnorthrup

My '02 330i, step in S mode will shift to 5th at highway speeds. It will wait longer, in case it thinks you are going to jump on it. If there is any kind of incline it will hold lower gears longer. Aggressive driving causes it to delay up shifting even when you let up on the gas.

Then there is the whole thing with the torque converter going on.

By the way my car will also often start off in 1st in D mode which some people say isn't true.

These cars seems to have a mind of their own sometimes.

I also find that if I drive the car gently the performance drops off. Spirited driving will help it respond better when you need it.

CNorthrup

paulhuang

This is off-topic too, sorry. I went to school at UT Austin and miss it there. I am in California (Sacramento) now, it's both colder and hotter than Austin. Traffic is about the same as Austin. Kim I hope you get your car fixes soon, losing acceleration on those super short on-ramps can be quite scary. The one good thing about California, I can go look at cars on both days of the weekend, in Texas dealers can only open 1 day of the weekend. I-35 gets a lot better once you leave Austin though, I regularly see a pack of cars going at 85-90 mph.

jkneon

Hello friends,

This is Joe from Canada, I posted here earlier #19081 about a 330xi for my wife. We were looking for a 2003 white 330xi at the beginning, the saleman couldnt find one for us so he offered us a fully loaded 2002 330xi. Well, we turned down his offer later on that week. So we are back to square one.

After some more investigations, (Yeah, I admin now I do pay alot more attention to the BMWs driving on the road.) My wife and myself have changed our minds and we are now more into a 330ci, for a couple of reasons ...

1. The coupe offers color matching body trim, which looks alot better in white color.

2. Neither myself nor my wife have ever driven a RWD vehicle before. BTW, is RWD car really sucks in winter? I am in Toronto and we do have snow.

3. The headlight on a coupe looks better, I also noticed the rideheight of the coupe is abit lower than the 330xi, is that true or I am just seeing things ?!

So here are our final decision

2003 330ci coupe (Alpine White/Black Leatherette)
(OPT) Steptronic
(OPT) E. Seats with driver memory
(OPT) Dynamic Stability Control
(OPT) Auto dimming mirror

(Accessories) Lugguage compartment tray

MSRP in Canadian dollars $52360, after PDI and taxes and whatever those crap are the grand total would be CDN$62025.25

We are planning to visit the dealership this Saturday to talk about the deal, some questions wanna ask here before hand.

1. Do those BMW sales talk about discount % on MSRP or discount on Grand total ?

2. Is the pricing for 2003 vehicle out yet ?

3. I really want to test my luck to see if I can get 6% off MSRP, which is CDN$50793 AND get the salesman to throw in the accessory I mentioned above. Do you think it is possible for a 2003 vehicle ?

4. Can anyone willing to share the technique on price nagging? Any 2003 buyers here wanna share stories ?

Thanks in advance

Joe

rwong1998

My dealer told me this week that he expects 2003 pricing hopefully by the end of next week. It is easier to understand and follow if you talk to the dealer about "X" dollars off of MSRP. From what I have heard since the 2003's are just coming out I would expect to get 3% to 4% off of MSRP. 6% may be too much to expect, but I am not sure about the market in Toronto. Keep us posted on how you make out with your dealer!

john01

www.eurobuyers.com has the invoice price for the US market, but not sure if I have seen the Canadian pricing anywhere.

I believe that 330xi has slightly higher ground clearance than the RWD models.

In general, FWD cars are better at starting from standstill in slippery conditions. All the weight over the driven wheels allows the car to put more power down without slipping. This is why some people with RWD (front engine) will put sand bags in the trunk to give more weight over their rear wheels. I have even seen people doing the same with FWD, which actually takes the weight off of the driven wheels, not very smart. Once you lose traction while moving, I find RWD to be more controllable. With FWD cars, you just slide.

If you have any significant amount of snow fall where you live, I would suggest getting a set of snow tires. Unless you don't plan on driving your BMW in the winter.

bimmer3i

I believe that you'll get a better deal if you'll negotiate from invoice instead of % discount from MSRP just like a lot us did here in US. Insist that you want to negotiate an X dollar amount above invoice (the X dollar depends on your location).

Most of the dealers today would give you an offer over the phone (which I did) or email so you could have an idea of how much the car is selling in your area. You could ask for the person responsible for internet order and most of them would give you a competitive price.

Based from my experience, the first time I went to the dealer, I told the salesman that if I order through internet (or based from what other dealers quote), I'll have this so-and-so discount. Normally they will try to beat the offer. Show your determination that you're ready to walk out if their offer is way-off from yours or tell the salesman that you'll give a thought of his offer and will call him back if you decided to take his offer.

In our area, dealers quoted me over the phone of $2,100 and $1,800 above invoice. Based on these offers, I was able to negotiate with another dealer of $1,500 above invoice and that's for 2003 330i (Step, PP, SP, metallic). When I look at the website for 20003 pricing, the price that I got for my order is only less than $1,300 above invoice (I don't know if I calculated it right). Sometimes you'll get a better offer in ordering compare to their current inventory.

maransm

I haven't got any reply for my msg #19265 so far.. I have ordered 2003 330i, silver/black, STEP, PP, SP, CWP and Xenon.

Could someone reply for this pleaseee? I never owned BMW before and new to snow conditions.

Here is the msg again:
2. Do I need to get snow tires or Spider spikes for this winter? I remember someone in this forum wrote that we don't need to replace tires or Spider Spikes if the tires are brand new. Is that true? If not, Which one am I suppose to go? Snow tires or Spider Spikes? (I do go for skiing a lot, so please consider that too)

If I need to go for snow tires, do I need to replace all 4 wheels or just only rear wheels?

Thanks a million!!

john01

How much snow do you get? If you have any more than a VERY light dusting, your sports tires won't get you anywhere. Not only will it lack the necessary grip in snow, it will harden and turn into a set of skis in subzero temperature. Unless you plan on keeping the car home during inclement weather conditions, a set of snow tires will be the only way to get around.

kominsky

ALL 4 WHEELS!!!

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/2vs4.jsp

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/2vs4_01.jsp

g_car

Take a look at the latest Edmunds sports luxury review. G35 came in 4th - oh well just another BMW wanna-be. G35 star burns brightly for a few months... then the G takes its rightful place 4th place that is right ahead of the butt ugly CTS. heheheh

1pierce

I only have a little over 1,000 miles on my car, so I haven't put the car truly through its paces, yet, but I have driven it for almost a month. Nevertheless, these are some of my observations on step shifting:

1. Somewhere, either in the manual or on the video you get with the car, it says that the car won't shift into 5th gear in "S" mode. I haven't tried to make it shift up by going really fast in "S" mode, but mine has never shifted into 5th in "S".

2. In "D" mode, my car upshifts into 5th as soon as it can on flat or downhill grades - I can tell, because the RPM drops to about 1,200 when drifting, as opposed to around 2,000+ at a similar speed in 4th, in "M" or "S" mode.

3. In "M" mode, my car always automatically downshifts to 2nd at a stop, NEVER first, regardless of condition. I drive in "M" mode alot, because I like to use engine braking on the many hills I have on my slow, daily commute to work. As such, I can feel a distinct difference between 2nd gear pullouts and manual 1st gear pullouts forced by me in "M" mode. Also, I don't think my car has ever automatically downshifted to 1st in either "M" or "S", while driving. It will, however, automatically downshift as low as 2nd, even in "M" mode, if conditions warrant.

4. "S" mode provides pretty aggressive shifting and gear holding on up-hills, under hard acceleration (got to watch that tach - 4,500, you know), and in engine braking. It feels great, but I also fear it is eating gas compared to "D" mode. This 91-93 octane gas isn't cheap either, as you guys know, so I'm a little paranoid about using "S" mode too often.

5. This transmission seems very nuanced. I learn something new about it every week. As I get more miles on the car, and drive it harder, I'm sure I'll have more observations.

nyccarguy

Unless you're getting gas mileage in the teens then you're not having any fun:)

Glad to see you're enjoying your car and learning more about it with each mile you drive. It was definitely worth the wait, was it not?

kdshapiro

My average mileage is 24.5. I guess I'm not having any fun at all. NOT!

maransm

john01 - I live in colorado which is a great place for snow ! So I guess I have to go for a snow tires..

kominsky - Thanks for the info. btw, you were planning to buy M5 wheels and tires for winter right? What did you buy and how much did you end up spending? If you dont mind, Could you pl let me know? Thanks..

tcn2k

Ok, i tested this out on my car on the way home yesterday and a bit help from the bimmer.org.

S mode does shift into 5th gear. The manual or tape is incorrect. It is speed and agressive sensitive. If you are cruising in "s" mode and not doing agressive driving, the 5th gear steps in at 50 mph. Otherwise, the 4th gear is held until the agressive driving is no longer instantiate at that particular moment, then 5th is slipped in.

D mode starts you off in 2nd. But since the D mode studies the way you drive, if you learned that you are an agressive driver; D slips into 1st gear during take off at stand still. This is called Adaptive transmission.

Try it for yourself if you have a step.

kominsky

I haven't purchased my winter setup yet. I'm still in the decision making phase. I'm leaning towards the tireracks 16" package but still not 100% sure. If I get the 16"s, the price will be right arount $1050 with shipping. If I get the 17"s, it'll add about $200.

brave1heart

I just got my Dunlop M2's with Mille Miglia Spider rims yesterday and the total came up to $907, shipping included. I think the ones that clear the 330's brakes are the Type 5, right? If that's the case, they were $10 cheaper than the Spiders and you could keep the total to < $900. FWIW, the Spiders look great, much too nice for a winter setup actually.

brave1heart

"This 91-93 octane gas isn't cheap either, as you guys know, so I'm a little paranoid about using "S" mode too often." I got a good laugh out of that. It sounds like something that a Kia owner is a lot more likely to say. A manual would have helped get a couple of extra miles from that fancy gas that BMW's need. I get 18-19 mpg even on the track. With everyday spirited driving, I still get ~ 25 mph on the highway easily. It is much better than the 300 lb lighter VR6 that I had - that car would get only 20-21 mpg with similar driving although its mileage ratings were slightly higher on paper. Same with the A4 1.8T - that turbo really kills the mileage once you get it boiling. So really, pierce1, don't be afraid to STEP on it and get some grins out of that fancy gas.

nyccarguy

I'll have to agree with you about mileage going way down when the turbo starts boiling. My Saab gets wonderful gas mileage even when cruising on the highway at around 75-80mph, but I get abut 17.5mpg driving around town. I love how the turbo on my Saab kicks in early (no lag) and it is fun, but it kills my mileage. But I don't care because I have so much fun driving it. My Prelude spins north of 4000RPM at 80mph on the highway so I can only imagine the mileage I get out of it.

But again, who cares when you're having so much fun driving:)

kominsky

Where are you getting those prices? At tirerack.com, just now, the Type 5's in 16" are $155 each vs. $139 for the 17" Spiders. Is there a sale ad somewhere I should know about? TIA!

1pierce

Cut me a break, please! Give me at least a little time to get used to this 93 octane price.

I got my drivers license in 1981, the year gas prices spiked to $1.35/gallon (in early '80s dollars). That's about 3 or 4 dollars a gallon today. I was 16, and my parents weren't rich. We had a 1976 Pontiac Catalina that got maybe 13 mpg, and a 1978 4WD V8 pick-up that probably didn't get over 10 mpg. They drilled me incessantly about using gas, daily, for my entire high school years - so much so, that I think I'm overly sensitive to the cost of gas, even to this day.

Besides, you apparently have much more money than me. And I see no point in revving the engine and wasting gas driving 10-40 mph in traffic. I know I'll never get 25 mpg in my BMW,...and I didn't buy it for gas mileage, I just don't want to get 15 mpg.

dave330i

Your mileage will go up as the engine breaks in. 15 mpg for a new car is reasonable. After 20k+, I'm getting 24 mpg in mostly city driving, with high speed HWY driving sprinkled in.