BMW 3-Series 2005 and earlier

dave330i

Chris,

As tempting as it is, I've got a pretty tight schedule, so unfortunately I'll have to pass on drinks. Thanks for the offer though.

nyccarguy,

You sure about the HH income in Jersey? There are 3-4 counties in the Bay area with HH income of 6 figures.

I can't believe you couldn't talk your friend's sister into getting a manual. Considering how easy BMW manuals are, the only valid reason to get a slushbox is if one's physically impaired.

nyccarguy

C'mon man, you know my friend and I tried our hardest (We both drive sticks) to convince her to get the 325i in a stick. Either way, it is a step up from her Acura TL. She was amazed how different the 2 cars drove and said her 225hp 3.2 TL is slower than her new 184hp 325i. This comes from a girl who doesn't know anything about cars except how to turn the key, put the gearshift in D, and hit the gas.

As far as the HH income, I'm not sure if it is highest HH income or highest income per capita. But I do know that New Jersey is #1 followed by Connecticut (which had held the title for many years).

div2

SHAME ON YOU!!!!!! Mpyne is obviously an expert in all things BMW, and here you all are cracking wise at his expense. Where will we get professional advice if you run him off? There. I hope you're sorry...;)

ccotenj

we top the list in jersey... of course, we also top the list in several other not so desirable categories, such as 3-series stolen per capita too!

div - when am i gonna learn?

-Chris

dave330i

Just giving you some hard time. Interesting thing happened to me while back. Couple of weeks ago, I let my girl friend drive my car. If I had my eyes closed, I'd swear I was in a Camry or something. It became a totally different car under her control.

lokki

To be honest - I don't think it's changed a bit.

Snake oil is still snake oil.
http://www.radar.co.nz/nz/report8.html

This site is pretty much the same info I posted above

target=_blank>http://www.radartest.com/JOS.html

Now there are ACTIVE radar jammers that kinda work but only sorta work apparently.

For that kind of money I'm buying a Valentine detector .... which DOES work by ALL reports.

brave1heart

Seems like bartending is hot in the Bay Area. Check this out (NY Post) for a good laugh.

"Failed dot-commers are turning to bartending in droves to make ends meet, say the nation's top mixology schools. The four biggest bartending schools in the San Francisco area turn out more than a combined 200 graduates each month - most of them former techies. Chris Grant, of ABC Bartending School, explained, "When times are good, people drink. When times are bad, people drink."

Gotta love bartender wisdom.

brave1heart

Totally agree. I've had my Valentine detector for over a year now and it has saved my [non-permissible content removed] a lot of times. You have to use it with common sense of course but it does work great!! And I was very skeptical at first because I had a crappy Escort years ago which was practically useless.

dave330i

A good bartender at popular bars can make quite a lot of money.

On the BMW front, one of my co-workers mentioned I could drive his M roadster when he brings it to work. Granted it has the "weak" E36 engine in it, but should be a blast. Hopefully I won't end up in a ditch.

rogerab

Does $1150.00 sound exorbitant for freight & dealer prep.

I would appreciate any help you can give.

postoak

You don't pay for dealer prep -- that comes out of the dealer's gross profit over invoice. Freight should be about $650 and is listed as a separate line item. It's no secret what it is.

mpyne

ccotenj- well than you should be really really happy with your dealer (this is not a sarcastic statement) im glad they take the time to get it right (this is very rare)

i apologize for my brash attitude but my only purpose was to give people a heads up because when people buy a nice car a want them to get treated right.

rogerab-they probably added some type of dealer sealant and are trying to charge you $500 for it. this is nothing more than a polymer sealant.
they will claim its fortified with teflon and you will never need to wax again, but youll need to come in every 6 months to re-activate it. you could probably ask them to remove it and im sure they will waive the fee.

disclaimer** this is just a possible reason for the charge.

kdshapiro

Any dealer prep sounds exorbitant. If that is really the case I would find another dealer.

twoof1

"The only valid reason to get a slushbox is if one's physically impaired."

C'mon now we're not going to start that ignorant rant again are we?

It's that type of statement that gives BMW owners an elitist and arrogant reputation that only a few deserve. You usually have very positive and substantial contributions to this board.

The "If it isn’t a stick it can't be a real enthusiast car" mentality is just plain wrong. I am surprised to hear it coming from someone who is usually very insightful with his posts.

dl7265

1.acceleration
2.steering
3.braking

manual not required...

locke2c

mike--

we all appreciate the apology. no harm done, let's move on and discuss bimmers.

so I generated a "CHECK" light in my M3 today, stopped the gas pretty good and cut a hard left in a parking lot. I saw it, vaguely remembered reading about it in the manual all that time ago... OH YEAH! I hit the "check" button on the trip computer. The message is: LOW WASHER FLUID. Guess I sloshed it a bit-- anyway, in a car that doesn't have power door lock controls this is just another interesting piece of technology.

I was amazed to notice a few weeks back that the wipers stop wiping when the car comes to a stop when it's on speed 1 or intermittent. Interesting.

-Colin

riez

If you want more control and more fun, manual only way to go.

But that is NOT the case in heavy city stop-and-go traffic. Maybe that is why so many are predicting that SMG technology will replace traditional manual sooner than we think.

And eventually CVT technology will replace conventional automatic. But I've heard this one for nearly 30 years.

karlson

I am taking ED of 530 in a month. Was thinking about selling my 328 sedan. Anybody can point me to the right direction?
I have never had to sell a car before.

nyccarguy

I remember reading in autoweek (either last week or 2 weeks ago) that the SMG is becoming an ever-popular option for the M3 (with a larger than you think percentage of people opting for it) and will definitely become an option on the E60 (V-10 Powered?) M5 in a few years. The BMW official cited in the article that the SMG offers superior performance to a traditional manual transmission as one of the reasons. I hope they don't do a way with sticks in M Cars completely:(

I know a lot of exotics like the Vanquish only offer the SMG transmission and 4 out of 5 Ferrari 575 Maranellos and a large percentage of the new Maseratis (coupes & convertibles) are being ordered with the F1 style Paddle SHift (Ferrari) and Cambiorcosia (Maserati).

"The only valid reason to get a slushbox is if one's physically impaired." We all know dave330i and what a die hard he is...great comment dave!

I'm just reporting what I read, so don't shoot the messenger:)

leenelsonmd

The valentine one is amazing. Worth every penny. Get the concealed display too. I like using it just for fun. I tend to speed, but average a ticket only about every 5 years (before getting the detector), because I pay attention to the road and what is on and around it. The V1 is not so much for ticket avoidance for me as it is for a little fun.

The 2002 chevy trailblazer 3rd brake light makes the laser detector go off.

Additionally as I have said above, do not count on the V1 detecting a laser radar prior to it checking your speed. The HPD here in Houston now have these in limited quantities and on multiple occasions the V1 has failed me in these situations.-- No radar detector will be able to give warning of this prior to it hitting the car so don't look for one that will. Despite all of this if you pay attention you can avoid the ticket 95% of the time even with these sophisticated measures.

leenelsonmd

Tough debate. I went with the 6sp in my M3. Dave330i convinced me and now I am a loyal follower.

I worry that the SMG will be more prone to failure and adds weight to the car. I have also seen a few people that regretted getting it. I want to act like a purist and stick with the 6sp.

ccotenj

lol... i remember the first time i got the "check" light... my heart jumped into my throat... then i saw the "washer fluid low"... felt kinda silly, feeling panicked...

yea, you are right, those are 2 little neato things (the check light and the "wiper stop")... y'know, i looked around for a week in my car when i first got it trying to find a way to lock the doors from inside... i was SURE i was missing something... lol..

-Chris

nyccarguy

As long as a stick is available in the car I'm looking at, I'll get it:)

Them There Seeeequential Manual Thingamawhosits is a bit on the pricey side...$2500...OUCH!

locke2c

I love a manual transmission because of control and directness. There is no lag waiting for a torque converter, and lower drivetrain losses.

But the SMG is a manual transmission in every sense-- it's just that a computer controls the clutch instead of your left foot, and there's actuators moving the shift forks instead of a mechanical gear shift lever.

I don't love a manual because of some visceral feel of rowing the shifter around. Maybe that's because I ride motorcycles a lot, and there's certainly nothing exciting about moving a short lever up & down. Shifting is a means, not an end.

All hail SMG. :-D

-Colin

ccotenj

i never thought i'd be willing to give up that 3rd pedal, but i want smg ii...

-Chris

brave1heart

I was dreaming that I was test-driving a Mini when I woke up this morning... Go figure. Maybe I was subconsciously hoping that I'd take one for a drive when I drop off my car for service this morning...

"The BMW official cited in the article that the SMG offers superior performance to a traditional manual transmission..." Automobile mag tested them back to back in its most recent issue and they are very close with a slight advantage going to the manual. I suspect that a good driver would be able to do better with the manual than with the SMG, except maybe launching the car on wet surface. I've read that the SMG has great launch control. As far as my preferences, they'd have to put me in a straitjacket before they pry the stick out of my hands.

leenelsonmd - the V-1 does help you avoid tickets first. And maybe it's some fun, although I don't see that part - I'd rather drive without it if it wasn't for avoiding tickets. It has definitely helped my average speed go up a few miles )

dl7265

I hear is going to be a late option on the new Z4 in both 2.5 and 3.0 , no mention for the 3er. Wonder if it will still carry the $2500.00 premium ? pretty steep for a car in that price range.

Hey brave i dont think you were dreaming you just watched an episode of "Charmed" with Allissa Milano driving a Mini...;)
DL

brave1heart

I am thinking of putting in a strut brace. I've read about it a bit and I don't see any downsides, except it may be tougher to reach some parts under the hood. Does anyone have brand recommendations/preferences, etc.?

nyccarguy

And that's coming from a guy who drives an E36 M3.

Chris: What's the difference between SMG & SMG ii?

locke2c

quote: "The BMW official cited in the article that the SMG offers superior performance to a traditional manual transmission..." Automobile mag tested them back to back in its most recent issue and they are very close with a slight advantage going to the manual. I suspect that a good driver would be able to do better with the manual than with the SMG, except maybe launching the car on wet surface.

brave1heart, cite please?

I disbelieve this. The SMG matches throttle for downshifts and accomplishes them in a fraction of a second. Upshifts require even less time.

There's no way a standard manual transmission could ever hope to match that. If 0-60 or quartermile testing showed a standard manual to have an advantage to me that would indicate the SMG isn't tuned properly for maximum effort acceleration-- and I think it is. (as an example of a sequential that isn't, read Edmunds' review of the 2002 Toyota MR-Spyder.)

On a race course with a normal driver I have little doubt the SMG would own a standard manual. With a professional driver the gap should narrow, but easy money is that the SMG still comes out ahead assuming the pro has adequate familiarity with it.

-Colin

dave330i

Lets look at this rationally. Why did we all get BMWs (or about to)? The main reason has to be because we enjoy driving. If we didn't enjoy carving up the local twisties, any other luxury car would have met our needs.

Which transmission makes driving more fun? It has to be manual. No matter how good an automatic might be, it can't give you the precise control a manual does.

What are some of the common reasons for not getting a manual?

Too much effort in stop-n-go traffic.

Valid reason for some cars. Unfortunately, BMW has one of the best/easist clutch/shifter combo around. Increase in effort is minimal.

Spouse doesn't/won't drive a manual.

How often will the spouse drive it even if it's an automatic? Usually, almost never. It's been my experience that people don't like to exchange cars on a regular bases.

Don't know how to drive a manual.

It only takes an hour or so in an empty parking lot to get the basics down.

dave330i

They did a test in the latest issue of Roundel, and for 0-60 & 1/4 mile, the difference between the 2 is minimal. On a track, it's a different story.

nyccarguy

does anybody know how much more the SMG equipped M3 weighs than the 6 speed?

ajvdh

It doesn't add much weight. I think it's less than 40 lbs (so just skip the sunroof).

A friend of mine got his a couple of months ago (he replaced his Z8 and Subie WRX with the SMG M3 and a Viper - must be nice). He thinks the full-auto mode is next to useless (too jerky). He also commented that for smooth upshifts, it's best to feather the throttle as you change gears. I've heard this from other SMG drivers, and I can tell you that if you don't lift, an upshift will smack your head into the headrest. He also said that once in a great while it will "bobble" a downshift. The definition of "bobble" here is that you can actually feel when the clutch engages.

Allegedly BMW has emasculated "launch control" (i.e. F1 mode) in the American cars. However (according to my friend), if you're at a standstill in sport mode with traction control off, and you slam the gas pedal down, you can still leave long black stripes on the pavement.

ccotenj

but supposedly that's true, because in full f1 launch mode, the clutch will only take about six of them before melting down, and it's way too easy to sue here...

-Chris

dave330i

The latest Roundel has some nice write ups about the SMG. If you haven't had a chance to read it, I recommend you do.

erickpl

I was reading in one of the mags (can't remember which - sorry) that one of the modes would not be available in the US for exactly the reasons Chris outlined.

When I had my car in for its 15,000, I had a step 325. My wife kept getting mad because I wanted to shift myself. She said, "How useless... typical for guys wanting to use the joystick!" I laughed because our xi is a manual.

She asked why somebody would want that kind of tranny, I told her that some people want more control over their car and want to do it themselves. Then I told her about the SMG... you don't wanna hear that. She compared it to our steering wheel on my PC.

-Paul

brave1heart

It was actually Roundel (thanks, dave330i). Sometimes I get confused between the 5-6 mags that I follow each month. The manual won in two of the tests and the SMG in one but they were very close in all three. I agree with you that in theory, the SMG should be quicker because it is not physically possible for a person to match the SMG's shift speed (0.07 sec?). I don't know why they were so close in the tests. Now why will the SMG excel on the track? Is that because an average enthusiast would be making more mistakes than the SMG computer?!? Honestly, I think the two trannies' performance would be so close that to me personally, there is no appeal in the SMG even if it were included as a free option. I do enjoy rowing the gears for myself very much and it would probably be a lot more rewarding when you do a perfect downshift yourself compared to the feeling you get from having the computer do the work for you. I'd happily give up a few tenths of a second on every shift just for that feeling, even if I do it perfectly well only 1 out of 10 times, you know what I mean?

ajvdh - the roof weighs that much?!? I had no idea...I weighed my snow tires and rims (Dunlop M2 Sports on Mille Miglia Spider rims) last weekend and they came up to 45 lbs. They feel lighter than the 17" rims with summer tires too.

brave1heart

Honestly, I'd take a stick in heavy traffic too. It keeps me focused on the road instead of giving me too much time to chat on the phone or play with the radio. And I can't stand having to fight the brake pedal so I'd keep the car from bumping into the car in front of me. I just had an auto Jetta as a loaner today and I hated it. If the road is level, the car should NOT be moving if I am sitting in traffic. The creep they dial into auto cars is unbearable.

ccotenj

yea, i read it...

it's always a tough decision when sports illustrated and the roundel come on the same day....

yup, brave, sunroofs weigh more than you think they would...

i don't mind shifting in traffic... and with smg ii, you still get to shift, and it's still a REAL manual, you just don't exercise the left leg...

-Chris

leenelsonmd

I think that the $2500 is pretty cheap for the SMG. I do not want to spend the money, but that is a bargain for a transmission of that caliber.

How much does Ferrari charge?

locke2c

$10,000. But like that's going to deter a Ferrari buyer-- they probably own a few thoroughbreds at $500k+ each and what's a $160k car versus $170k?

-Colin

leenelsonmd

I love BMW North here in Houston and my sales lady Laura Miller is great.

I had a great day today. It started off when one of my profs offered to let me drive his M5. I took him up on it and WOW! I could hardly breathe for the next 2 hours. We were driving down 288 and came up on a 330 going about 80mph. I was in 4th gear and punched the accelerator and the 330 took off with me. Maybe 8 seconds later the car sputtered a little and I was embarrassed as I realized I had just redlined in 4th gear and I apologized, but I looked down at the speedometer and we were going 133mph. Unbelievable--I had no idea I was going that fast. The 330 was in the dust, but after slowing down to about 110 he came up on me fast. I could not believe it. What a car.

Then, I took a friend of mine up to BMW North and he was looking at getting an M5 vs an M3 and we wanted to test drive the used M5 in their show room. They said no problem and in a couple of minutes 2-3 guys were moving some couches out of the way and the manager was driving the M5 out the door. No arguments. I love that place. We got in and drove the car the way it was intended and probably put 30 miles on it. We drove some back roads for cornering and took it out on the interstate and spent most of our time between 100-130mph. The sales lady was in the back and just begged us not to tell her how fast we were going. That is a terrific car. My friend came very close to ordering a new M5, but I think he is going to get an M3 since it is more nimble and more stiff. We then test drove a 745Li just to see what it was like.

What a dealership. BMW North is a world apart from Momentum as I mentioned in my previous post above. They really treat the customer with respect and are happy to show their cars off. We could not drive an M3 because they have not had a single M3 available for the past month.

If you live in Houston and want to buy a bimmer in town, go up there.

love2skicar

hello folks

i tried scrolling through this but could not find what i was looking for so sorry if this is repetitive.

are there big differences between a 2002 and 2003 3 series? i've seen different information.

i just came back from europe and i swear that i saw a facelifted 3 series (small coupe 31something) on a dealer lot in Zurich. it was closed so i couldn't confirm whether this was a model not sold in the us or something new. it was along the lines of the 7 series and was quite sharp

i heard it is official that the coupe and the m3 will get a facelift in the spring

does that mean i'll be making a mistake getting a 2002?

are there any other changes?

people on another board are talking about "valvetronic" and a significant boost in horsepower

i have waited 9 years to replace my car so i can wait if it makes sense. but then again i am really sick of my current car and don't really want to wait 2 months and pay top top dollar.

i wish i reached this decision in some unambiguous time like march

also a good acquaintance of mine manages a bmw dealership and she is strongly recommending i lease a 2002 because the "money factors" are lower and the resale is irrelevant since it's leased and the residual factors are the same

she showed me a chart with money factors ranging from something like .190 (which multiplied out to 6.5%) for a 2002 330 to .275 for a 2003. there seems to be an incentive on 2002's

i've never leased car so I'm a bit confused. i can't tell why they are pushing leasing so much vs. financing

any help would be appreciated

thank you

kdshapiro

Drool, drool..I should go in and ask my dealer to drive either a 745 or an M3 and see what they say.

kdshapiro

When you lease a car you only pay for that portion of the car you use in terms of depreciation. So for example leasing my 330i is costing me 18,000 at 500/mo for three years. There are $22,000 of the car I don't have to pay for. The are some gotchas, you don't own the car, you are responsible for extraordinary damages. And you pay based on the number of miles you commit to drive every year. I have leased cars with both 12,000 and 15,000 miles per year. 15,000 miles per year will cost more. If you go over you pay an excess miieage fee per mile.

At the end of the lease you give it back, no equity no nothing. Plus for certain types of businesses a lease makes sense because you can deduct the mileage offseting the cost of the lease.

Only you know whether it makes sense to lease, go to a dealer and work out both sets of numbers. If you want to own the car, then buy it. If you don't care after three years lease it.

love2skicar

will do

do you have any advice on the 2002 vs. 2003 and what will change?

thanks!

paraman

I am a working paraplegic who uses and loves his car alot. I am trying to decide between a M3 and a C4S. I have heard the bmw has a very stiff and jarring ride. Not good for some one with a back that is sensitive. I drove the C4S and it is rather sedate on the roads and not to stiff. How about longevity of engine, again I have heard some poor reports on the M3. Price, for us working folks is always an issue, therefore, the nod goes to the M3 hands down. Thank you for all your feedback and thoughts.

maransm

Changes for Model Year 2003 E46 Cars
------------------------------------

All 3 Series
------------
* The navigation system will be upgraded from CD-ROM to DVD. In addition, the navigation system will now be available with in-dash CD-player or cassette player.
* The sound system head unit now has a new auxiliary input.
* Sedans receive third rear headrest and 3-point seatbelt.

325 models
-----------
* Rain sensor and automatic headlight control will now be part of the Premium Package.
* Front armrest will be standard in the sedan and sport wagon.
* Moonroof will be standard in the sport wagon.

330 models
----------
* Tire Pressure Monitor replaces the Flat Tire monitor on vehicles with run-flat tires. The alarm display and button in the middle console remain unchanged.
* 330xi with Sport Package will come with 17" all-season run-flat tires with styling 98 wheels (same as the current run-flat tire option).

brave1heart

I had the sticky gas pedal issue resolved yesterday. The new gas pedal feels smooth as butter. It also feels a little lighter and I am sure it is an illusion but the throttle response feels quicker. I find it easier to match the revs on downshifts and the car feels sportier overall. I really did not expect such a minor change to make that much of a positive impact and I am glad I did it. If you feel any notchiness at all in the gas pedal whether it is being depressed or released, you most likely have the sticky gas pedal too.