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Mazda MPV
tboner1965
Member Posts: 647
in Mazda
Comments
Ask the dealer the question, why should I pay $22K for a new one when your invoice price on a new one comparably equipped is about $24-25K before any rebates are considered.
My gut tells me that with about 20K miles the price of the van should be around $20K plus tax tags and title.
I'd make a strong case the following way.
Get the option list on the used van, figure the invoice price of a new one with those features, then offer not more than 82% of invoice, minus any current rebates since that generally reduces the trade values of all vehicles. Figure a lifecycle of 100K miles, it has 18K miles so it's 18% used up.
Let's figure that if the van is truly loaded then invoice might be around $25K, if there is a $1K rebate, then a new one "costs" the dealer about $24K, so 82% of 24K is about $19.7K, so I wouldn't go much higher than $20.5K just on the van. If you can wait, then tell them your offer is good for so many days (say the 30th of June) and maybe they will sell it to you.
I'm not a car professional, so there are probably many ways to figure it. That is what I figure the van is worth to me, if it is a perfect vehicle. What it is actualy worth to you depends on the condition, color, and the state of your current transportation.
None of that considers a trade. If you can, just buy the van without trading.
My $0.02
Cheers,
TB
If I liked the vehicle, I'd open at $19.7K if there was a $1K rebate on the new ones (assuming the new invoice of $25K) If there were no rebate the numbers may go up about $800, but this gives you one way to (in a purely mechanical way) determine A value for the used vehicle.
Not necessarily THE value, but a reasonable starting point. This is what a used vehicle is worth to you, 82% of the wholesale cost of a new one today.
Cheers,
TB
elvis_hoo: I agree with you. I want the brakes to work, effectively and consistently. Rear drum or rear disc deep down are not that important. I've noticed a lot of the car reviewers and car magazines are interested, and comment positively, only on the latest and greatest technological advances that are going into cars today. I rarely see comments about reliability and affordability (except maybe in Consumers Digest and the like), two things I think their readers would be very interested in. The greatest disc brakes in the world aren't any good to me if they're part of a defective batch from the brake manufacturer!
A couple of other comments about my first test drive: the saleslady, who was very nice but very new, said to put a 3/1 stereo in the MPV would cost about $300 (all they had on the lot were CD's and CD changers). That still doesn't sound right to me given the MSRP on the 3/1 stereo is $150 from several sources, including Edmunds. Also, driving on a hot day at noon in Houston, the A/C did a good, but not great job. But I think she should have rolled down the middle windows to let some more of that heat out. I did like the rear A/C blowing on my neck when I sat in the middle row, and my wife could feel it all the way up in the driver's seat. I just don't see now how you can live without it in hot climates (and I don't see any MPV's on the lots here without it!).
She also said she would have no problem getting us an MPV in sapphire blue or sand mica, but that the teal would be difficult, that it was not a popular color. What's the latest you're hearing on color availability?
We're also looking at the Montana short wheelbase and the Subaru Forester (just in case 4'11" wife can't park big minivan in garage). We looked at Saturn LW2 but the tilt wheel in its most upright position still impeded my big knee when trying to hit the brake. That could be a problem, you know?
In the next couple of weeks, I will rent wife a Venture or Montana short wheelbase (almost identical size to an MPV) to let her practice putting in and pulling out of garage. Anyone know of anyplace to rent an MPV, esp. in Houston area? Also, any comments about the other cars we're looking at would be appreciated. Thanks!
Our dual-air MPV "sleeps" in the garage and has no trouble keeping us cool out here in 100+ degree West Texas, but our humidity is nothing like Houston.
1) Thanks TBoner for all the excellent posts..
2) Anyone know more about the 3.0 litre in 2001?? We'll have 3 kids & 2 adults on trips. In the test drive, the van seemed a bit to eager to shift.
3) The only other thing I can see needing would be a split back seat. Don't know if that's possible with the tumble under
uh.. make that four..
4) How `bout power controls to vent the rear window. Does anyone else find they need the feature on the MPV??
The wife and I keep coming back to this van, and think it'll be the one for us. My biggest concern was/is the engine. But then she drives a `87 Tercel wagon, so any more power is great, but how `bout durability..
Salesman doesn't know if it can be added, service guy isn't in.... Anybody have info? Many thanks, this forum is great.
If you want a picture of the teal send me an email I will forward you a pic of mine. I like it but then again Im weird.
bugaboox: it cost us 129 to uprade to the 3 in 1 (our dealer matched the cars direct site price)
kondo: Thanks for the info. Since I live in Texas, where you cannot buy from anyone but a licensed dealer BY LAW (no CarsDirect, etc.) Probably will have to dicker on every little detail or just use AutoByTel or DealerNet or Carpoint.
I can't decide whether the rear a/c is worth getting. I live in Phila. Do the rear vents work with the regular a/c? Is the regular a/c adequate given my location and climate?
Also, what are the current rebates/incentives on the MPV. I know about the low financing. Autopedia also lists a "dealer incentive" of $1000 per car, as does Edmunds. But Kelley Blue Book lists a customer incentive of $500 to $1300 depending upon certain conditions being met.
I have been told by various dealers that I can get low financing or $1000, but not both. But the prices I've been quoted seem to be below the dealer's cost (factoring in only one $1000 incentive and the holdback of 2% of base MSRP) which leads me to believe that the there is currently both a dealer incentive and a customer incentive. Can someone help me out here?
Thanks.
My wife is an inch shorter than yours (4'10"), so i just though to share with you on this.
Of all the vans we've tested my wife also finds the MPV's driving best for her. We both like it very much and is our current top choice. We think it has the best visibilty, maneuverability / parkability, and driving position for shorties. But it could be better.
Watching her closely I could see that she is still unable to rest the heel of her foot on the floor while stepping on the pedals. If you really think of it, she should be booster seat fodder (ha ha).... just check those booster seat requirements and anyone below 4'11 is.
So we are still waiting to see how the extendable pedals of the coming 2001 DC vans will suit her (and the DC power rear lift gates will probably be good for her).
The only other van with the extendable pedals would be the Windstar. But it would be too big for her and has even worse reliability record.
Personally we dont care too much about the DC vans so we are keeping as last option adding fixed pedal extenders on the mpv if the DC van overall doesnt cut it.
Heres some links I've found just in case you are interested:
US: http://www.pedalextenders.com
Canada: http://www.handcontrolscorp.com
Good luck and I sincerely hope you have better luck with the mpv than we do.
marc
marcb- My wife is also 4'10" and she loves the MPV...she has no problems driving it or reaching the pedals. BTW: I'm 5'10 and I can't see the front of the van either. One thing I've noticed though is that when I'm in the passenger seat with out baby in her infant seat behind me, even with the seat all the way back, my knees seem to nearly hit the dashboard. Because the placement of the dashboard is so low, if I have the seat close, my knees always hit it. Has anyone else noticed this?
I just love having the second row windows that open. One of the main reasons I never liked mini-vans, other than they weren't "cool" enough, was that the second and third rows seemed too closed in and stuffy. I love the fresh air, and only use the AC when it is very hot. I love opening up the moonroof, putting down the windows a couple of inches each, cranking up a CD, and taking off.
About the stereo: I got the new Matchbox 20 CD a week or so ago, and it sounds great on this stereo. I played it in my husband's F250 crew cab and the CD absolutely didn't sound the same. The sound just sort of blended together, and you couldn't hear the individual instruments like in the MPV. Life is good!
We simply found the best prices by surfing the web, then called the local dealers in our area to see if they could meet our web price. Many said "your crazy" and they lost our business. Elmer said "sure" and we settled on price and ordered over the phone. Painless.
We paid Invoice price, minus the $1000 incentive plus $100 ("profit"),ie. $900 under invoice price.
We immediately took our new baby on the road to Minneapolis (a 1000mi round trip). The car performed very nicely and is exteremely comfy. Slightly sluggish in city driving with the a/c cranked (I was trying to keep up with my uncle's Jaguar) but after all, it IS a minivan! Our gas milage on the first 3 tanks was 22 mpg, 19mpg and 22 mpg, much of it highway, most of it with ac on (it was hot that weekend), however we could not use cruise control and were advised to constantly vary the speed for the first 1000mi due to the transmission breakin period. We enjoyed the huge windows and sunroof, great visibility, smooth ride and great 3/1 sound system (flippin from CD to cassette and back again is NICE). The wife and kids LOVE the van.
Good luck to you all and drive safely.
Picked up my rainforest green fully loaded LX on Saturday! I love it! My thanks to everyone in the Town Hall for the great advice and helpful information. The day we picked up the car, I asked the salesperson about the 3.0 engine. He informed me that it would not be available until 2002, for what it's worth. We talked about Mazda's new Tribute, and he said that was a "honey" of an SUV and very powerful! He said he was going to buy one for his wife. That's the information I received on the larger engine. Hope it helps!
According to Mazda, the Tribute has been backed off to a late August to early September arrival. The 2001 MPV should arrive shortly thereafter. On paper, the 200hp V6 Tribute engine gets better gas mileage than the MVP. Mazda said they don't know if it's the same engine that will find its way to the MPV.
We haven't had any power complaints, though we also haven't loaded the van down with six people.
With the popularity of the Odyssey, the MPV should continue to sell around invoice. You will still have to shop around. Some dealers in our area wouldn't dip to our prce.
We thought about the entertainment system, but discovered that for $100 more than the Mazda price, we could get one aftermarket that includes wireless headsets and TV receprion.
We found that straight ES models were hard to come by in the St. Louis area. Many were loaded with ad-ons.
We paid $23,024 for a White ES with 3-in-1 stereo/CD/cassette as the lone option. The deal was actually $23,213, but I refused to pay the $189 "Customer Services Fee", so they backed the sell price off $189 and included the fee on the paperwork. After dealer incentives, we figure we paid $125 over base invoice. Three other dealers in the area wouldn't accept our price.
We really like the van and feel that its fit and finish are nicer than that of the Odyssey, if you can accept a slightly smaller interior.
2000 ES w/4 Seasons/Moonroof/foglights/roofrack/
$24,914 (net of $1,000 rebate) tax not included.
Previous posts indicate a sluggish engine which
has me a bit nervous...I'm coming out of a
Trooper (roomy) and those backseats look small.
Comments?
What's sad is the Quest/Villager is significantly bigger on the outside than the MPV. It's not saying much if you think they're smaller on the inside!
http://www.motortrend.com/june00/waltworon/waltworon_f.html
We purchased our ES at Town North Mazda in Richardson. They were great! I did my homework here and other sites on the web, came up with invoice prices, went in with what I wanted to pay, and they met the deal. Really a hassle-free transaction. Talk to Tracy - he was very reasonable and we were able to take the van out for a drive without him. Also none of this "let me take this to my manager" negotiating.
Mike
I also know that based on that test Mazda issued a recall on bumpers. My question is: if I were to go to a dealership and get MPV right now, would I get original bumpers or a new ones? Basically, if a company makes a recall, do they fix all the cars on the dealer lots or not? Another question I have is if anyone has a data on 2000 MPV's high speed crash test results. I appreciate your help.
cyclerklm - thanks for that trip down memory lane. i spent a lot of happy childhood trips with my parents and 3 siblings in one of those volks in the 70's. those experience may be why even in high school i dreamed of vans and multicab pickup trucks instead of sports cars. could be also the same reason this article gives is why i also choose the mpv?
todd48 - eowww, im just an inch shorter than you (5'9") and i have a daughter age 4. but for me, i seemed to fit into the mpv well in our test drive to be ok.
one thing ive observed from looking at my dad (only an inch taller) who never seem to fit into cars i buy is that height is not the only factor. had always been extra thin (135 lbs today at my heaviest) with a dire shortage in natural body pads specially in the seat area. my dad is twice my thickness all around. those extra diameter on his buttocks and torso pushes his thick knee into the dash of my nissan axxess and bumps his head on the monroof cover. he has to push the seat all the way out, tilt the seat back and the steering up to fit.
thickness may explain the different feedback weve been getting from same height persons on the mpv.
This is in contradiction to what they said a couple of months ago! Anybody want to guess as to what Mazda may be thinking?
Also, from what I understand, the bumpers are not going to be replaced. They are planning on adding a bolstering device inside the bumper, to add strength.
http://www.crashtest.com
Click on "Mazda," then scroll down to the "MPV 00-01" cell and click on it. This will send you to the page that shows front and side impact photos, as well as the data extracted from the dummies. The most important thing to note about the photos is that the van still holds its form; the roof is not bent, the door is in place, and the front wheel has not intruded into the driver's area. This means that the structure has protected the occupants. The data extracts show loads recorded.
I'd imagine that most minivans perform fairly well in protecting their occupants in a crash, as safety is so important to comsumers.
In defense of Mazda though, the rumored bumper recall (my dealer hasn't been informed of it "officially" yet either), the poor low speed impact rating is really not a safety issue, it is a cost issue. The MPV had more damage than was expected in a low speed frontal collision in dollars damage to the hardware, not to the occupants. It's safe to say that the van would be totalled in a 40mph frontal, but it's passengers would be fine, as the crash tests show.
Worry not, you'll be safe.
200hp in a 3600# MPV would give it an almost unfair advantage over the 4300# Oddity (intentional mis-spelling).
Happy motoring!
In any event, for price comparisons, we are getting all of this at "dealer cost" of $22,137 (including the $1,000 dealer incentive, with the dealer keeping the "holdback" of $442.50). All in all, an extremely fair deal, except if there are two incentives in place, one a dealer incentive and the other a customer rebate, in which case the deal is not so good. (But from what I can determine there is only one incentive in place, a dealer incentive of $1,000).
We are paying an extra $38 for cargo net (from parts) and are also having two child car seat tether anchors installed at $8 a piece, plus labor (undefined at the moment though perhaps as much as $195 which seems awfully steep).
Our dealer is Don Rosen Mazda in Bala Cynwyd, for those in the Phila. area who are looking for great service and a great deal. Ask for Adam Glazer in sales.
Thanks for all of the advice on this site. Couldn't have done it without it.
Thanks for the reference.
If you were still swaying between the MPV and the new DC's, we were going to send you a list of strategies we use to test these cars out, especially in regard to seat position and airbags.
However, from your subsequent post, it appears you have made up your mind. Did your wife get comfortable with the MPV despite not quite reaching the floor with her heel? Anyway, if you still want to hear our strategies, post back and I'll send them to you (they may still make her ride more satisfying).
Otherwise, enjoy your MPV and let us know how it does when you get it.
P.S. You're the first person I can remember on this thread that bought it in our first choice color, the sapphire blue!
I just read the link above and was horrified: the transmission used in MPV is not Mazda, but Ford!!! I've heard quite a few stories in Mazda 626 forum about bad trannies in 4 cyl auto 626s, since 4 cyl auto is the only combination on 626 that uses tranny by Ford. Is MPV using that tranny on its V6 engine? That really sucks.
1. Probably more 2.5L parts around since the Contour/Mystique and Cougar are not as popular as Ford would like. So Ford had excess engine capacity, and Mazda needed the engine/currency hedge.
2. Perhaps Mazda engineers were not comfortable with 200HP, 200ft/lb torque through transmission.(unlikely)
Just some pseudo-random thoughts.
Cheers,
TB