Mazda MPV

bottgers

Please and thank you. There, I said it, now how 'bout those views.

tccmn1

When discussing this at time of delivery, my dealer stated that I would NOT need to replace the original oil until 5K-7.5K miles! He even said you could go longer. He stated that the early oil change of the original oil is an 'old wives tale' and that engines now don't collect metal shavings during breakin any more. I will probably stick with the recommended 5w-20 which he stated is in the vehicle now and on the reqs. But I always over change my oil anyway. Oil is a cheap peace of mind thing with me.

Now, on to that eternal sound system issue; I went to the Mpls. Auto Show last night and grilled several guys at the Mazda spread. They dug out a little options books and cited that you CAN order the SUPER SOUND SYSTEM for the LX!!
It's a $650 addition on top of the $450 for the 6cd indash deal. It comes STANDARD on the ES....that is what makes the nearly $3K difference; leather, 17inch wheels, some chrome on the inside door handles, carbon fiber dash, leather and the SUPER SOUND SYSTEM. When I ordered I ASSUMED I was getting the top of the line stereo system...and overlooked the speakers vs. tuner itself. Again, shame on me.
I checked out the cost of enhancing my system with sub woofer, etc. and it would be about $300 installed. So there is some savings I guess.

bottgers

....with the old wives tale. Doing the first oil and filter cange at 1,500 miles certainly can't hurt.

maltb

Doing the first oil and filter cange at 1,500 miles certainly can't hurt.

Are you sure? What if the oil formulation is the key to proper engine break in? I'd be more likely to trust the designers over rumors or wives tales.

once_for_all

there bottgers, you're getting it with the please and thank you. IMO, any engine with 1500 miles is broken in and I can't see hurt being done... the oil in the new MPV is standard dino stuff, I had the dealer change it and the filter at 1800 miles ('cause he did it for free, and I had a windshield crack that I needed looking at) and then I switched to M-1 5w30 at 6500. I will probably change at 6,000 to 7,500 intervals with the same oil.

bottgers

.....the same designers who say it's all right to leave conventional motor oil in for 7,500 miles?

once_for_all

I am convinced that the synthetic 5W-30 quieted down the lifter noise on startup that was quite noticeable with the 5W-20 dino oil.

John

bottgers

.....for M-1, but no way I'd leave dino in for that long.

stever

I do, but it's too soon to tell if I'm killing my engine. Only 80,800 miles on it (~11 oil/filter changes). I use the stuff that the dead dinos ate.

Engine Oil - A slippery subject Part 2 is a good place to wade in on oil.

Steve, Host

tboner

I think I posted a memo from Ford regarding the use of 5W20 in their vehicles on the MPV site that we are not supposed to mention here.

In summary, it states the 5W20 can be used for many older Ford engines. The engine lists goes back to the early 90's, so that tells me that there probably isn't a significant change in machining tolerance that warrent the use of 5W20 only.

I believe they also indicate that 5W30 is acceptable.

I really can't find any compelling reason that you should ONLY use 5W20 in modern Ford/Mazda engines.

TB

maltb

if you can't trust the designers who set lubrication specs, who will you trust?

bottgers

.....but I would like to know when I can or can't take their advice. I would assume the same engineers who decide what type of oil an engine needs are the same engineers who say it's OK to run dino for 7,500 miles between oil changes. This is lousy advice, so why should I think their choice of oil viscosity is any better of a decision?

stever

My owner's manual says to change my oil every 7,500 miles of normal service so I do. I haven't had any automobile engineers or petroleum geologists or chemists tell me otherwise yet (unless you have some of those credentials). Dang if I'm gonna pour money down the drain - it's not like I'm cruising around in a F-16 after all.

Oh yeah, I drove my last two cars 17 and 10 years respectively and plan to drive the current ones into the ground too.

Steve, Host

maltb

This is lousy advice, so why should I think their choice of oil viscosity is any better of a decision?

this is just speculation.

But I can't wait for a REAL lube specialist to come on here set the story straight.

evaddave

...but let's look at this from a different perspective:

The factory
(1) most likely tested the engine/oil combination
(2) has to worry about warranty claims
(3) has no direct benefit from more frequent oil changes.

The oil companies and/or service shops
(1) didn't do any testing
(2) have a vested interest in frequent oil changes. Either you use more of their oil, or it brings you back into their shop where they can find plenty of other "problems."

Which group do you think would give a more impartial answer? My vote goes with the factory, and I'll bet that dino oil, when used in normal conditions, *could* last 10K to 15K miles without a problem.

-Dave

bottgers

.....you'd lose that bet. I'm just guessing here, but I'd say you folks don't venture into too many of the oil forums. If you did, you'd see that no dino has ever come out of an analysis with acceptable numbers when having more than 4-5 miles on it. Those of you running your oil for 7,500 miles are pushing the envelope, and those of you going more than that are just asking for trouble. Don't take my word for it because I'm not an oil expert, but I can read oil analysis results, and I've never seen a favorable one on dino with more than 5K miles.

kpevav

I live in central Florida where it is very hot for six months of the year and rarely if ever freezes. Is a heavier oil -- such as 5-30 -- a better bet for such conditions?

stever

Good point about the oil analysis Bottgers. One Amsoil "dealer" friend of mine complains about the molecular tails breaking off at less than 3,000 miles of use.

Right now some truck stops have oil analysis while you wait for their pro driver customers. We need a few million of these instant analysis machines around so you can cruise in and have a few drops of your oil tested for a buck (or free!) before changing it.

Steve, Host

bottgers

Yes. In fact, there's usually a chart in your owner's manual that shows which viscosities to use for different climates. I don't know if the MPV owner's manual has this chart because I don't have mine yet. I'd take a guess though that 5W-30 would be the recommended weight for extrememly hot climates if 5W-20 is the normal recommendation.

subearu

can be used in the '02+ MPV's. The manual states 5w-20, but Ford/Mazda later released a tech bulletin stating 5w-30 was fine to use also.

I believe the '00-'01 MPV used 5w-30.

-Brian

eddie777

I just read rutger's post (sorry, I'm a bit behind in my reading) about having rear a/c but no rear heat. I agree, it doesn't make any sense.

Wanna hear more about this? Here in Canada, we have the rear heat standard on all trims, but to get rear a/c you need to buy the top-line ES or LX with Sport package, both of which have a gazillion options I'm not willing to pay for. Does this make any sense???

Obviously Mazda has the rear duct available but screws U.S. customers by making them pay extra to open it for heat and screws Canadians by making them pay extra to open it for cool air. How's that for a dirty trick?

End of rant.

backy

No, it's a marketing strategy. You can take your money elsewhere if it offends you.

backy

I made my annual pilgrimage to the Greater Twin Cities Auto Show today, and compared the MPV to the competition, including the new Sienna. Except for rear-seat leg room, I thought the MPV stacked up well against everyone else, even the Sienna. I think Mazda has executed some of the details better than others, e.g. the stowed rear seat has a more finished look than on the Sienna, which looks like the engineers just couldn't figure out a way to make it go all the way into the floor, so they decided to leave a little on top; the rear seat well, which is uncluttered in the MPV but has protruding seat supports and latch holes in the carpet in the Sienna; and of course the gliding middle seats (you have to lift a seat up and reattach it in the Sienna). Overall, I'd give seat comfort to the DC vans, with the Ody and Sienna tied for second (mostly because of the tight 3rd seat in the MPV). But the driver's seat on the MPV was one of the best, with a well-designed height adjuster. The MPV's dash is also one of the best I think; the Sienna's had glossy black trim (LE) that was distracting even indoors. Pricewise, the MPV is near the top, considering the $2000 dealer cash and the $500 Auto Show discount. One caveat: there was no Ody LX, Sienna CE, '04 Quest, or '04 Freestar at the show, so I couldn't check out all the models I wanted to. Based on what I saw today, and my drive of the MPV earlier, it's still on my list, but the Sienna and Ody are going to be strong contenders too.

tlauro

Good review of your hunt so far. We are going with the MPV LX with some options for the value and our not requiring such a large vehicle as the others.

The DC vans have a good selection of options with the Town & Country eL being the most closely matched for our needs. I'm just leary of anything with Chrysler in the family. The new Toyota is by far the nicest IMO, but way too much. The Honda is a great vehicle, not as quiet as I expected. Just still too much $ for our needs. Especially given the Ody and new Toyota's are commanding sticker or more.

In the end, our LX with Changer, R.Rack, Airbags, 4 Seasons, Power Doors, GFX and Rear Air will be around $23k or so.

I agree with some of the reviews that the Mazda offers MiniVan Utility with the zoom zoom of a Mazda Sedan. Plenty of power, great fit and finish and reliable and safe as any out there. 4yr/50k is a strong backing too.

Good luck in the hunt.

tccmn1

I too went through the show. I just recently received my 03 LX and just did a quick run through the Ody, and new Sienna and others to reconfirm. I have to agree with the statements about the inside look of the Sienna. I asked the Honda guy to try to remove the SECOND row chair and he couldn't do it. He said, I quote, "I'm making this look harder than it really is". I just smiled and said a-huh. I went over the MAZDA MPV and asked their guy to remove the second row seat and it just popped out. I've done my own a couple times...but wanted to see how the schmooze guys would handle it. The Chrysler folks do have a nice product....I just got tired of some of the eternal screw ups they have had in the past..speaking from my own experiences-TRANSMISSIONS!!

I'm still steamed about the Mazda SUPER SOUND SYSTEM debacle though. I went to an after market place today and showed them what I wanted to do and they said it would be easier to yank out the system and install a new one!! No way.
I just wanted to add a subwoofer in that empty cavern in the rear (like the ES has) but they said there's not enough room to do it. Not sure why Mazda can do it and they can't. It's tough to go from a 6 speaker Infinity system in my old DC to a simple 4 speaker deal..The End.

Oh yeah, I plan on changing oil every 3K-5K miles using dino as I have all my life.

tlauro

YOU WROTE:
"I just wanted to add a subwoofer in that empty cavern in the rear (like the ES has) but they said there's not enough room to do it."

REPLY:
Look into WooXWoofer by Kenwood. Simple plug and play to help clean up the muddy base that stock Bose systems typically offer.

Here's a link to one Nicely concealed in the cargo area in the floor of the rear area of a Trailblazer:
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/other-trailblazers/other- -triplet-mods/scottbindley/scotts-wing-sub/WooXWoofer-800.jpg

The Stock 270watt Bose in the Trailblazer is awesome, but this little baby is still much better.

tim
http://www.timlauro.com/cars/trailblazer/1-main-page.html

bottgers

......when an interesting thread is going along and all of a sudden, everyone just stops posting.

mchuchra

Hi All,

I drove home with my new silver MPV LX this weekend, so I wanted to share feedback that might help others negotiate a better deal. I ended up doing even BETTER on price than the $20,802 (out the door) price I quoted earlier for a 2003 MPV LX with the following options (MSRP = $24,880):

4 Seasons Package
Traction Control and Side Air Bags
Rear A/C
Roof Rack
Rear Bumper Step Plate

It does NOT include: CD changer, power doors, moonroof. I decided to live without those luxuries.

After exchanging a series of emails with three competing dealers for a few days, Heritage Mazda in Bel Air Maryland sweetened the deal by dropping the price to $20,600. That includes taking the full "$2000 dealer dollars" credit rather than any special financing. So net-net, I got them to go $280 under invoice and then subtract the $2K. Most dealers would not dip below "invoice," but I guess the "dealer holdback $" leaves them enough margin that this one dealer was willing since he was about to lose my business to a dealer that was closer to my home.

So far, so good. Good luck to other buyers.

freeabc

After a few round of email discussions with three Mazda dealers, I stopped by yesterday and got a deal of $600 below S-plan price plus $2000 rebate and $500 Auto Show promotion. The S-plan price is ~$30 below the invoice.

The dealer admitted it was an OK deal. So he must still make good money. This might be a starting price for those who can use s-plan.

My Sand MPV LX has power door, 4-season, GFX, 6-CD, Rear AC, roof rack. The CD charger and GFX were not we wanted. But I guess $600 probably covered them.

maltb

I don't want or need it. Thanks Mazda.

lsinc

I was reading about the oil issue and believe me when I say that my husband knows cars. He is meticulous with our cars engines. Every 3 thousand miles the oil gets changed. He claims oil to a car engine is like blood to a human. And yes, we drive our cars for years with little to no problems. His Subaru is a 92 with 170K on it. Runs like a champ.

In any event, my post really has to do with our decision to buy a Mazda MPV. We have been pricing the '03 LX with a few options added in. I found an '02 with 9K miles on it. It's an ES with leather, 17 inch wheels, power seat, CD and Cassette player, 6 speakers etc. etc. The dealer is asking $19,990. My husband wants to know the MSRP and it's not listed but my guess is that it's probably $29,000. Does anyone know if that sounds about right?

russia22

Where do you guys see the dealer cash as an option? I only saw the 0% financing for 3 years on Mazda's site, plus lease incentives. Same thing on Edmunds.

backy

"Dealer cash" is just that--cash from Mazda to dealers to use as they wish. Because it's dealer cash and not consumer cash, it's not advertised unless dealers want to offer it to buyers. In my area, most (all?) Mazda dealers are offering all of the $2000 to buyers in their advertising. But they don't have to. With consumer cash (i.e. a "rebate"), it's cash from the manufacturer to buyers, and it must go to the buyer.

rutger3

What is it with car manufacturers and safety. When they have it they make it sound like the best thing since sliced pumpernickel bread. When they don't offer it or choose to put it in their vehicles,"well most people don't want it". Mazda is no different and does this with the MPV. Case in point. Front belt pretensioners which take up slack in case of an accident. Most,but not all vehicles have them for obvious reasons. EVERY single Mazda except the MPV has them. Smaller vehicles have them, less expensive vehicles have them, larger vehicles have them? The MPV is their most likely family vehicle. Can someone,maybe Cliffy please explain this? There seems to be no rational thought here. The same can be said about other mfgs and other safety equipment like side air bags or head protection. Checking the latest consumer report it shows that most pick up trucks have safety equpiment that many family vehicles don't! The marketing people must have rocks in their heads. They need head protection.

clpurnell

price out a 2003 and subtract 500-1000 that will give you a rough estimate.

tccmn1

By now most of you know of my 'fetish' with a good sound system and how I was mislead on my factory order on my LX. Anyway, do any of you have the issue where AM comes in at a much lower volume than FM? I switch between the two and need to crank up the volume by two dashes compared to FM. Is FM broadcasting in a more powerful mode now?? Is this another 'normal' deal? I've never had it in any previous GM, Subaru, Chrysler products before....

Has anyone put mud flaps on an MPV with the GFX package? I would like to put the molded type on it to protect against tar and chipping.

alexv1n

Just FYI, 2002+ MPV has the pretensioners. I don't know why 2000-01 MPVs didn't have them.

Basically, the safety equipment evolution in '00+ MPV is as follows:

2000 MPV - front air bags + optional side airbags.
2001 - the above plus child seat tether anchors behind 2nd seat (I guess in the 3rd row seat well as well)
2002 - LATCH system, seatbelt pretensioners.
2003 - same as 2002

This is just what I remember without consulting with any documentation. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above...

rutger3

alexv1n: I got my info from the Consumer Reports new auto issue. Perhaps this was a typo? Even so,my main point remains. The auto mfgs. fail to realize that safety should never be an option. There is absolutely no logical reasoning behind the marketing decisions made when deciding which safety equipment is included in which vehicle. This is regardless of size,price , or type of vehicle. Nobody has an answer,Nobody. I understand when a $40k BMW has something a $20k Camry doesn't, but not when a $17k pick up truck has more safety items than a $25k sedan or minivan.

audia8q

have front seat belt pretensioners and seat belt load limiters. Earlier models did not.

cpenrose

I found only a few others posting about a rattle in the dash, but no solutions. This rattle is right around the steering column. I've been stuffing objects around some of the molded plastic with limted success. Does anyone know what gives?

tccmn1

I took my new MPV to Milwaukee as stated earlier and had no problems in the very wet trip. Lot's of spray with temps in mid 30's but she clung well to the freeway at 70MPH. Didn't hit the snow I expected and mileage was consistent at about 21MPG's. Nice smooth ride all the way. Good decision on the MPV for our family so far...

PS: No rattles in my dash...but I hear the cracking sound of expansion and contraction of the exhaust, etc. at idle and after shutdown....rather normal to me...

audia8q

Price increase today on the MPV....all models

base price on the LX was 21,375 now 21,560

tccmn1

I happened to talk with my dealer where I bought my unit today and found out that the sales manager is 'no longer with the dealer'. He must have been giving away too many things with the deals like he did for me.

Anyway, I talked with the new manager and asked him about oil changes. He stated that in Minnesota, we live in the 'higher risk' area and we should change our oil every 3-5K miles. Even though the former manager told me 7.5K miles. He stated our temps have such extremes here that it warrants this. He did also affirmed that you do not need to change the initial oil any sooner for 'breakin' period. Today's engines do NOT require that the initial oil be changed sooner.

So, here we go again on the debate as to when to change the oil....;-)

I have 1800 miles on the unit and still love it.

PS: Sold my old 95 DC minivan today to a nice young family. I think they got a good deal and I got rid of me old red fire engine...sniff-sniff. Many good memories of young kids and going to games in that baby.

strange3

We shopped for months & decided the MPV LX meets our family's needs best. Definitely the best for the $.

Now the question becomes price and dealership. I'd really prefer used w/low mi. to avoid 1st yr. depreciation, but there are few '02s around. (Don't want to chance the engine before '02 & like lower mi.) Lcl dlr had 3 '02s (rental fleet vehicles) he'd certify (4yr/50k B2B, 100k P-train). They moved quickly.

We were upside down then anyway & he didn't want to give much in Feb. Now we're break-even (I hope) and can't decide whether to wait for more used '02s or splurge for the '03. Any advice? And what about these new '02s I see when I search the parent site? What kind of deal can I expect? Any recommendations on dlrs in Triangle area of NC would help.

Can't wait to zoom.

phantoom

Hi all. Thinking of getting the factory security package on the '03 MPV, and wondered if any of you auto experts think it is worthwhile. Not much of an auto-phile myself. How well does it work, is it easily defeated by the bad guys, etc.? I imagine an aftermarket one would be cheaper/better, but I hate to mess around and screw up the warrenty or something.

scott31

To get the security package, you have to get the ES model. It costs more than $2k over the LX model. The only thing you get is the Power Driver's seat, and Leather. Not worth it in my opinion just to be able to order the security package.

mchuchra

Sounds like you are grappling with the same issue/dilemma that I was about a month ago. I probably can't go too wrong either way. I guess it depends on how much of a price break you are getting by going used or with the leftover... I found that certain local dealers around here (SE PA) had quite a few of the rental fleet '02 models. one dealer must have had 20-25 of them, most others had several each... My rule of thumb is to stay away from rental vehicles -- although they get adequate routine maintenance, it's hard to quantify/ascertain what kind of beating the rental customers inflicted. But you do get the added Powertrain warranty up to 100K -- so that should provide some extra protection. It seems that the going rate for the '02 LX's with 8-15k miles was about $17.5K-$18K. I was able to get a new '03 with roof rack, 4 seasons package, traction control, rear a/c for about $20,600 (plus tax, title), so I didn't think the price difference warranted going used. You can probably find a whole bunch of used '02 MPVs by drilling down at cars.com or other similar used car sites. Most of the '02 MPVs will be off rental fleets. Good luck.

sillyappa

Does anyone have any problems with their radiator fan constantly running? About a month ago, our 02 MPV ES started running the fan continuously as long as the engine is on. I used to hear it cycle on and off. It is very loud and I wonder if there is a deeper problem. At about the time the fan started running constantly, the "check engine" light came on due to a bad sensor, according to the dealer. The light went off when the sensor was replaced, but the fan has been running ever since.

audia8q

Here is some interesting MPV news....I just got the allocation specs for May production and the MPV is listed as sold out/build capacity reached. Which means that all orders this month will be kicked to June production and July/Aug delivery.

Just wanted to give everyone a heads up. If you need an MPV before the end of the summer I suggest you find one in stock somewhere and avoid a factory order.

tomj5

Sounds like the dealer is Jiving you. I would say that the fan relay is stuck on or there is an overtemp glitch for some reason. Just for grins and giggles reboot the computer by lifting off the neg battery terminal. The computer may think the problem is still present maybe....
TJ