I just read the review of our favorite little car at www.carsdirect.com; it is much more objective than the reviews by the Edmunds' staff, in my opinion.
me crazy.I must have an answer.My post was not intentional.I had to read it over 3 times to see what was wrong with it,It wasn't until I read it outloud to my mother that it struck me. That being said I will certainly try and live by the high standards demanded by Edmunds from here on. Regarding tire pressure-I have never considered "over inflating"my tires,but after reading some of the postings I am going to try 35 psi and see if there is any gain in gas mileage. As far as the Edmunds review of the Echo go they sure seem at varience with most reviewers.I have never driven an Echo and don't car for the looks,but from the comments in here by owners,if gas mileage and price are at the top of someones list-the ECHO seems like the way to go.
I don't think we will ever have an answer. The English (American) language is filled with examples of words that should be pronounced one way, but are pronounced another.
The comedian Gallagher has a skit about this.
Regarding tire pressure, I am going to stay with what Toyota suggests and that is 32psi. I already average over 40mpg city/highway so why mess with success.
There is a review about the Echo on Aboutcars.com. The link can be found on the low end cars discussion thread here on Edmunds. To find that thread, click on sedans and then click on the comparison - sedan v. sedan (model specific) section. Low end cars is usually near the top of the list of topics.
I found the review to be even handed and fair. The reviewer did not like the Echo, but it had to do with looks and the fact that he felt it was not right for his generation (20 somethings). He complimented Toyota on the Echo's quality and the quality of the interior.
. . . to find out that I am actually more appreciative of the ECHO than my Significant Other, who is the owner of a lovely '00 ECHO in Black Sand Pearl (although I think it looks even better in red). It's not as if I'm totally unfamiliar with this car.
I saw three ECHOs yesterday (four including my own) A black ECHO at the Farmers Market which was messy inside and unwashed/unwaxed on the outside. A dark blue ECHO at a stop light. And a dark green ECHO at King of Piazza. Also, I'm seeing what I believe are three different silver ECHOs on a regular basis, one of which has the body cladding which looks good but Im afraid that will hold moisture and promote rust. My Toyota dealer sent me a number for a drawing where I am eligible to win a Toytoa Prius. There is a one in 911 chance of winning it which is pretty good considering its one in 80 million to win the powerball. Whether or not I will sell the ECHO or the Prius if I win I havnt decided yet. Personally, I think if most people drove cars like ECHO that get 40 mpg there would be no need for a car as expensive and complicated as the Prius. I hate to think how much $$$ it will be to keep a Prius afloat later in its life. In an unrelated note, I was reading a bout a Japanese admiral in WW Two whose name was TOYODA. I wonder if hes any relation to TOYOTA and if they changed the spelling to cover up the name TOYODA (he wasnt very nice) like Peking is now Bejing.
The founder of the company was a Toyoda, not Toyota. It could be a common name in Japan. But several months ago when in Honolulu I noticed something odd. There were a million and one ECHOs there! It was so fun walking around Waikiki and seeing all the ECHOs. Counted like 4 at one stop light. WOW!
My wife has joined the crowd of freeway-flying college professors here in LA, having picked up some classes to teach at a second college. She's looking at 60mi a day, and since our '94 Grand Voyager AWD get 17MPG around town and also towing the folding travel trailer, we decided that we needed to get her a small high mileage car.
As an electronics person I was attracted by the Honda and Toyota hybrid cars but several day's research on the net revealed that the Honda is in short supply, has an unsettled battery history, and the 5-speed version is impossible to find now that the CVT version is out. The Prius is out as it is ONLY "automatic" transmission (actually innovative planetary gear system, but no clutch and gear shift). The wife wanted to get back to a manual transmission as she worked so hard to perfect her shifting years ago; I, in a past incarnation, drove heavy-haul semi's so I love a stick shift also.
I happened across this message board and have read all the messages on the current list, and based mostly on your comments we bought a 2001 Echo 4D 5-sp a week and a half ago. We love It!
I discovered that the available option packages vary by geographical location. On Toyota.com the "built your own" program bases what is available on your Zip Code. We could only get A/C, rear window defogger, and power steering, or that plus Package #1 and the 3-in-1 stereo w/6 speakers. No cold weather package (so no electric heating booster), no Package #2 or #3. What's on the dealers' lots follows this. Plugging in Zip codes for colder areas (midwest, north, east) showed different preferred option packages. I suppose we could have visited my wife's parents in Indiana and found a more fully loaded one there...
I hate car salespersons based on past experience that most know little mechanically about what they sell. ("Will it tow a houseboat?" "Oh Yes! especially this nice red one here!" "Does it have the towing package on it?" " I don't know, but the CD player is great!"). So, I went thru AAA, was sent to a dealer a few towns to the east, and had a pleasent time. Echo's are $300 over dealer invoice, no hassling.
I miss having a tach, oil pressure guage, or even a temp guage, but when I was in High School my father bought a brand new '64 Chevy with a 327 and IT had only a fuel guage, with a hot and cold light, oil light, and battery light. However, I'm ordering the shop manuals from Toyotaguys and will build a small electronic tach and guage panel, about 1"x3", to keep me informed. A little more programming of the microprocessor should also show MPG/fuel used from totaled fuel injector open time.
Yes, you can shift without using the clutch while moving, but you will probably wear out the syncro clutches a little faster. When I drove heavy haul Diesel's I always shifted 5X4's and 13-speed transmissions without the clutch, but I also used only two fingers on the shifter and just put enough pressure on the stick to "feel the gears meshing"; when the gear speeds matched, the stick just fell into the slot. The Cummins engine was used only in the 1700-2100RPM range so gears didn't turn nearly as fast as in the Echo, where 1 finger on the shifter works without the clutch when I fall back into old habits. I never twisted a driveshaft or otherwise damaged the drivetrain, something easily done with a "grabby" clutch in a big rig.
The only other draw back to the Echo is that there is no flat level area on the dashboard for 18lb Lewis (the "cat" in "techncat") to ride. He loves to watch what is going on or just sleep spread out across the dash. At least we have put a litter box for him in the trunk and by folding down the 40% of the rear seat he can access it.
Wind suseptability: I had a '68 Beatle and a '72 VW Van. There were times in the Van when I had the steering wheel almost a full turn into the wind and still couldn't quite stay in the lane. So far the Echo hasn't hinted at having any problem.
My mom had her hip replaced a couple of months ago and she loves riding in either the front or rear seats of the Echo. No problem getting in or out.
No need to apologize for the long post; I enjoyed it. Regarding upgrade package #3: to the best of my knowledge, it does not exist. It is listed on Edmunds and some other Internet sites, but I am not aware of an ECHO in the USA that has power windows. The list of available features at www.isthistoyota.com does not list an upgrade package #3. Your cat weighs eighteen pounds?
If upgrade package #3 does not exist, Carsdirect.com is possibly going to have some angry customers. They indicate that it does exist and that you can get an Echo with it.
I have not ordered a car from them merely used their site to price cars so perhaps it is an option that you have to special order from the factory.
Yup, Lewis is 18 lbs. On the other hand, my wife and I are large too. That was one of the first things we checked: she (5'*"/200lbs) and I (5'8"/270+) both fit side by side in front with plenty of room.
Lewis was a kitten we found as a stray in a park, trying to live off the food in the trash cans. He grew into a large Maine [non-permissible content removed] sort of cat and for the last 10 years has ridden in my work truck with me to the mountain top (8000'+) microwave sites I maintain, where he spends about 1/2 hr checking out the local sights, then returns to sleep within sight of me. He also goes on vacation trips with us and our folding travel trailer, as far as Newfoundland.
The power windows, from the illustrations in the owner's manual, are add-on humps to the inside of the doors. Probably a gear motor with an output shaft that couples to the existing window crank shaft. Don't think I would want it because it looks to take up valuable knee room next to the door, but as I haven't seen the thing in the flesh, I may be all wet. But I would like power/wireless door locks.
I'm planning on replacing my ATF with Mobil 1 pretty soon. Since you have the shop manual, would you give me some hints on how to do the ATF exchange myself? I'm doing this to increase the life of the transmission and maybe increase mileage by a tiny margin.
I have the power locks and the control for it is between the seats. Next to the controls are two blank squares. Why couldn't Toyota have put the controls for the power windows down there?
There is a drain plug on the botton of the AT and according to the manual it is simply a matter of removing the plug with the AT warm, draining the 2.9 liters of fluid, and adding the new 2.9 liters of oil through the filler cap. BUT...in most ATs there is a lot more ATF in the tranny, like maybe 6 quarts more that you cant change unless you remove and drain the torque converter. (which is not something Id do myself)Im not CEERTAN this applies to ECHO and Ill read through the manual and get back to you one way or the other, but Im pretty sure youd be changing only like 1/4 the ATF by the method in the manual. Does the owners manual that came with the car recommend an oil change interval for the AT? Most cars do not have one for the above reason. (ie theres already like 8 quarts of oil in there and changing 1/4 of it isnt going to make much difference)Really, I do not believe that your AT is going to last any longer with synthetic oil in it, nor do I think it likely that you would realize any increase in mileage. The only reason to put synthetic oil in place of regular is when extremely cold temperatures are expected and that is really for the engine oil which WILL be a big help starting it when its like 25 below outside. I see you live in Canada so perhaps this is a real factor for you. Id also ask the Toyota service dept in your area to see if they recommend this change (possibly they do it) If so its really just a matter of removing the drain plug and refilling with 2.9 liters of your choice. Ill read over the service manual to see if it says just how much oil is in the AT...might take a while. Let us know what the dealer recommends also. Good luck!
According to the SM there is 6.85 liters total oil in the AT, of which only 2.9 liters can be drained with the drain plug. The only way to replace all of it is to take the trans apart and put it back together again. Personlly, here in NJ I would leave it alone. But it is possible living in Canada as you do that having half of the total oil in the AT synthetic could be a big help when temps fall below like -20 degrees F. Then again, it might concieveably void your warranty and not work well at all. You can try it yourself...does the trans have any trouble operating at low temps? If not then Id leave the regular dino in there. But post us how the ECHO AT works in subzero weather.
I had the ATF changed at a Jiffy Lube place once a few years ago. I was towing a trailer and the ATF was beginning to degrade from the heat. They opened up an trans oil cooler line and inserted a hose to each end of a device that consisted of a clear tube about the diameter of a coffee can and maybe 4 ft tall, and had a free-floating piston dividing into two separate compartments. One end was filled with new ATF, and as the trans oil pump pumped old oil out to the oil cooler circuit it filled the other end of the tube and pushed the piston, forcing new ATF on into the circuit. I think they had maybe 8 qts of ATF in the rig. This looked nice, but the new ATF would have mixed with the old in the trans sump long before the end of the procedure, so it may not have been much more effective than just draining the sump.
Got the four door 5-speed in Alpine Silver. Got upgrade package #1 and got most of upgrade package #2 also, but did it ala-carte, (A/C, Power Locks, Rear Defroster, Single CD player, Floor Mats). Negotiated a price of $11,995 which included everything but tax, tag, and title. Traded a '91 Corolla and got a fair trade-in price for it, ($1500). I think I did real well on the price.
Dealer told me that only 5% of the Echo's manufactured have power windows, so it is very hard to get. Don't know if he was just putting me off or what, because I told him I really wanted them, but he said they were not generally available. The owners manual definitely refers to them and even shows photos. I've already ordered a VIP RS3200 security system which will add keyless entry. Plan to install it myself. Will probably tint the windows and add a bra as well. When I need new tires, I'll probably get custom alloys and wider tires. No complaints so far. Just dislike the small tires. Love the pep in the 5-speed, love the gas mileage, (I have a 65 mile one-way commute), love the looks, and love that it's a Toyota for a price that's right! Glad I got the sport molding, because I think it really looks sharp compared to without.
Heard back from the dealership where I bought my Toyota. They used to rent Toyotas, but with their working out of trailers [due to tornado demolishing old showroom] they don't do it anymore. The Internet manager is hopeful that they will do it again when their new showroom is built.
The dealers says replace ATF (drain) at 96000 Kms (60 k miles). They are willing to replace ATF with Mobil 1 (as you say, only 2.9 liters) for a labor charge of CAD$ 44 (about US$ 29) and assure me it will definitely not void the warranty!
Does the ECHO use a timing belt? My dad's 99 Solara has 90,000 miles on it and he just changed the timing belt for the first time in the car's life...but here's the neat part...it looks brand new. It was spotlessly clean and had no wear on it. WOW! I'm pretty sure he said they are usually changed around 60k miles. Hope my car's lasts that long!
$11,995 is a good price for an ECHO with both option packages; the sticker price for that car would be about $13,800. The dealer was being truthful about the power windows; they are impossible to find. If 5% of the ECHOes manufactured do actually have power windows, I don't think many of them (if any) got shipped to the USA.
Like the comedians say, timing is everything! I messed around getting financing on my new (yesterday) white 2-door automatic Echo and benefited from the $1,000 rebate; it was $500 when I started shopping. I got the auto, air, power steering, mats and rear window defroster (which, by the way, is the only way I have seen any vehicle equipped here in the metro Atlanta area) for $11,099 by going through AutoBytel. It sure beat pounding the pavement trying to find the right vehicle. In the southeast region of the country you cannot get even a remote-remote mirror; you have to roll down the windows and adjust and just hope some dope doesn't bump into them in the parking lot so you have to readjust. Oh well, other than that small feature this vehicle is exactly what I was looking for -- a high-mileage vehicle that you don't have to crawl out of (i. e., the new Honda Civic) with gobs of space. This will be a treat after racking up 45,000 miles in 16 months on my black Ford Windstar; the poor thing never got a chance to cool down as it was my work vehicle and I make tons of short trips a day as a newspaper photographer. I can't wait to check my first tankful and see what kind of mileage I get. I hope to switch to Mobil 1 on the first oil change at 1,000 miles. I'll probably go ahead and do the transmission fluid at that time also. My dear old departed mechanic Dad was a fanatic about doing that with a new car (metal shavings and all, he said). Thank God someone finally made a small reliable car for us baby-boomers! Cheers!
photoboy: I live in southeast Georgia, close to Waycross, so I have no idea who to recommend to you for service in your area.
Babyboomers remember when Kennedy was shot. Same echo of emotions today. Rumors about gas prices doubling sent many to fill up locally. Glad my car is an Echo.
I live in Kansas City Missouri and the paper today had a picture of a gas station where gas was selling at $5.62 a gallon. There were reports of this happening elsewhere in the city also. My roommate's son stopped off with some people in Lawrence Kansas because they needed gas. They filled up at $1.99 a gallon and after they were done, gas prices were being raised to $2.49 a gallon. This was yesterday.
I had half a tank in Major Tom, but I still went out to fill up. I first went out at around 2pm yesterday, but ended up coming back due to the lines. It was crazy. I ended up filling up at the Quik Trip down the street for $1.55 a gallon at around 7:30pm when the lunacy had died down. There were people at every pump, but there weren't the lines waiting to fill up.
I took the Escort down to QuikTrip at about 10pm and the comparison between 2pm and 10pm was just amazing. It was like two different places. Plenty of open pumps.
I drove by QT today and their prices never changed. They were $1.55 before the terror, $1.55 during the terror, and $1.55 one day after the terror.
Hats off to the QT corporation for not price gouging.
I am trying to talk my dad into getting his license, at age 55, for the first time. He won't drive that much, and said he wanted something the size of my car (Protege) to bang around in. I was thinking Echo, because they are so reliable, low priced, and good with gas. Are they easy for a new driver to get used to? Thanks.
I think one car is pretty much as easy to learn to drive as another as long as they are automatic transmissions. Now comparing automatics to manuals, I think automatics are easier to learn on.
One of the advantages with the Echo and older drivers is the high seat height. My parents are both 70 years old and love the seating position and ease of entry/exit. For a new driver, the lack of any reference points re: front or back might make it hard for him to park until he gets used to the parameters. Othewise, the Echo is very user friendly and visibility is excellent!
Kaz brings up the point of visibility. In one review, Edmunds compliments the Echo for having great visibility. In a later review, Edmunds claims that the Echo has large blind spots.
I guess Edmunds doesn't know how to adjust their mirrors. Perhaps they adjust their mirrors like I used to.
I used to adjust my side mirrors so that I could see behind my car. I did not adjust them so much for close quarters. This was and is wrong.
The inside mirror is for seeing behind you. The side mirrors should be adjusted so that when objects leave the field of view in the rearview mirror, they show up in the field of view of one of the side mirrors. When they leave the field of view of one of the side mirrors, they should be in your line of sight without mirrors.
There are blind spots with the Echo, but they are not as large as Edmunds makes them out to be when your mirrors are properly adjusted.
I think the center mounted speedo will make it easier on a new driver. A new driver does not have to worry about adjusting the steering wheel in an effort to get an unobstructed view of the speedo.
But personally, I say get your father to learn to drive first and then buy the car. This way he can pick out the car that he is happiest with and meets all his requirements and driving style.
The car is going to be his choice totally, but I was just trying to find somewhere to start. I thought if I could show him a couple cars that he might like, it would make shopping for the car easier. Also, I want something I am comfortable driving as well because I will drive it occasionally too.
As a former truck driver I depend almost entirely on my side mirrors and so I adjust them so I can see down the lane on each side and can use my depth perception to judge the speed of oncoming vehicles on each side in relation to my own. I not only want to see what is there but what is shortly to be there so I don't cut someone off who is traveling faster than I am. I am even irritated with the convex mirror on the right side of modern cars as it makes it difficult to judge distance and speed. Of course, the first thing I add to any car I buy are small spot mirrors to the outside mirrors so that I CAN see cars as they pass from the field of view of the side mirror into my direct view out the side window. My company truck has a solid shell so I have removed the inside rear view mirror, and I tow a trailer with my van, so the inside mirror is useful only to assure me that I haven't had a flat tire that would cause the trailer to be tilted in relationship to the car rear window frame.
That said, IF I AM in a car with a center rear view mirror I feel blind if I do not adjust it correctly. The inside mirror is close enough to the driver's eyes that when I get in after my wife drives, I end up looking at the rear seat; she sees the dome light after I have driven it. The outside mirrors are not nearly so problematic, with neither side requiring adjustment normally.
A side note: the spot mirrors allow the passenger to second-guess the driver and aid in "back seat driving!"
I wanted to drive the Echo to son's apartment in Jacksonville, Fla but wife said we can't since taking a huge rocking chair. It's just too big to fit it INTO the Echo so going in her SUV. Hmmm, Echo roof rack available? Reminds me of grannie Clampett not wanting to get out of her rocker.
My '00 Electric Green 4door w/cladding,auto, cruise - has 42600 miles, I've had it since April '00..I just had tint replaced on the driver and passenger windows, and got a new drivers side door panel - free by Metroplex Toyota, Duncanville Tx. I mentioned the scratched tint to the delaership who took the car back into the shop and found the drivers door panel was slightly bowed. This pushed the rubber strip on the inside on the window against the tint,causing extra wear and scratches. Something to consider if you are having the same problem. I see many more Echo's than I did in April 00 when I picked it up. The car continues to turn heads and draw comment.
For those of you that have 5-spd...the engine gives a nice growl and major acceleration between 4th and 5th at around 80mph!!! I just got finished driving through the high desert and had a few laughs keeping a '01 Neon in the dust! Love this car!
You found something that I have known for some time. And it does make for something interesting times when you use that acceleration ability to pull away from unsuspecting motorists.
Geeze, and I thought I had put a lot of miles on. I got the Major on 12/29/00.
I was doing good on keeping the mileage fairly down until I played Amtrak for my roommate. I took her to St. Louis, dropped her off, drove home, went back to St. Louis and picked her up, and then drove us home. This added like 1200 miles on my Echo in the space of about three days.
But I thoroughly enjoyed every minute and every mile of the experience. Most of which was spent at 80mph plus.
When you get the quote for what the dealer charges for the 15,000 mile maintainence, please post it. Until then , remember what my neighbor has paid in total to Toyota for "maintaining" his 96 Camry...$1500! This covered 10 oil changes, two spark plug changes, two air filter changes, a coolant change. A LOT of money IMHO. Mostly, the so called "service" provided by Toyota involves inspection of things that normally do not give trouble. Most of these can be done by the average car owner. INSIST that they charge you by the flat rate manual for these inspections! They should take like 30 minutes TOPS! (which at $75 an hour would be $37.50) At 15,000 miles about the only thing your ECHO would need are an oil change and possibly a tire rotation. (but see the owners manual) Although the manual doesnt call for it, I have my tires balanced by Sears once a year. (after the first balance at $10 a tire, its free for life) But as a general comment on the "service" and "maintainence" intervals Toyota charges for, I say...TOYOTA IS RIPPING PEOPLE OFF! I can see having them check the car over if your warranty is about to expire, then they have to pay for the repairs and that is a good idea. And after the warranty expires their lifetime shock, strut, and muffler program is a good value. (any of these items installed by Toyota is replaced free of charge for the life of the car) But when I saw the receipts my neighbor had for his Camry where they changed the oil, sparkplugs and air filters for $300 (and inspected the car) THAT was a rippoff.
I agree about the service fees being a ripoff. I have only brought my car in once for the 5000mi check-up and as I stated, the dealer had me wait half a day and when I got my car back it had a sticker on the windshield from a quick-lube place on it!!! Needless to say, I take my car to Jiffy Lube now and according to the manual, there really isn't much maintenance for the Echo. The local dealer has sent out mailers for service 'specials' and it states that the 15,000mi check-up is $110!!! Hmmmm, for an oil change and tire rotation with a few visual checks that is really a rip-off! I can hardly wait to see a 'reminder' notice to have my timing belt changed(the Echo doesn't need it changed).
My Echo has 15500 miles and service costs have been very low. 3 oil changes and 1 tire rotation. All done by myself. A little over $ 50 so far. Is TOYOTA going to honor the guarantee considering I do all the maintenance? Yes, just in case I've kept all my receipts (oil, filters and tire rotation) and if push comes to shove, there's my mechanic who will provide me with more receipts, if necessary.
Comments
That being said I will certainly try and live by the high standards demanded by Edmunds from here on.
Regarding tire pressure-I have never considered "over inflating"my tires,but after reading some of the postings I am going to try 35 psi and see if there is any gain in gas mileage.
As far as the Edmunds review of the Echo go they sure seem at varience with most reviewers.I have never driven an Echo and don't car for the looks,but from the comments in here by owners,if gas mileage and price are at the top of someones list-the ECHO seems like the way to go.
The comedian Gallagher has a skit about this.
Regarding tire pressure, I am going to stay with what Toyota suggests and that is 32psi. I already average over 40mpg city/highway so why mess with success.
I found the review to be even handed and fair. The reviewer did not like the Echo, but it had to do with looks and the fact that he felt it was not right for his generation (20 somethings). He complimented Toyota on the Echo's quality and the quality of the interior.
My wife has joined the crowd of freeway-flying college professors here in LA, having picked up some classes to teach at a second college. She's looking at 60mi a day, and since our '94 Grand Voyager AWD get 17MPG around town and also towing the folding travel trailer, we decided that we needed to get her a small high mileage car.
As an electronics person I was attracted by the Honda and Toyota hybrid cars but several day's research on the net revealed that the Honda is in short supply, has an unsettled battery history, and the 5-speed version is impossible to find now that the CVT version is out. The Prius is out as it is ONLY "automatic" transmission (actually innovative planetary gear system, but no clutch and gear shift). The wife wanted to get back to a manual transmission as she worked so hard to perfect her shifting years ago; I, in a past incarnation, drove heavy-haul semi's so I love a stick shift also.
I happened across this message board and have read all the messages on the current list, and based mostly on your comments we bought a 2001 Echo 4D 5-sp a week and a half ago. We love It!
I discovered that the available option packages vary by geographical location. On Toyota.com the "built your own" program bases what is available on your Zip Code. We could only get A/C, rear window defogger, and power steering, or that plus Package #1 and the 3-in-1 stereo w/6 speakers. No cold weather package (so no electric heating booster), no Package #2 or #3. What's on the dealers' lots follows this. Plugging in Zip codes for colder areas (midwest, north, east) showed different preferred option packages. I suppose we could have visited my wife's parents in Indiana and found a more fully loaded one there...
I hate car salespersons based on past experience that most know little mechanically about what they sell. ("Will it tow a houseboat?" "Oh Yes! especially this nice red one here!" "Does it have the towing package on it?" " I don't know, but the CD player is great!"). So, I went thru AAA, was sent to a dealer a few towns to the east, and had a pleasent time. Echo's are $300 over dealer invoice, no hassling.
I miss having a tach, oil pressure guage, or even a temp guage, but when I was in High School my father bought a brand new '64 Chevy with a 327 and IT had only a fuel guage, with a hot and cold light, oil light, and battery light. However, I'm ordering the shop manuals from Toyotaguys and will build a small electronic tach and guage panel, about 1"x3", to keep me informed. A little more programming of the microprocessor should also show MPG/fuel used from totaled fuel injector open time.
Yes, you can shift without using the clutch while moving, but you will probably wear out the syncro clutches a little faster. When I drove heavy haul Diesel's I always shifted 5X4's and 13-speed transmissions without the clutch, but I also used only two fingers on the shifter and just put enough pressure on the stick to "feel the gears meshing"; when the gear speeds matched, the stick just fell into the slot. The Cummins engine was used only in the 1700-2100RPM range so gears didn't turn nearly as fast as in the Echo, where 1 finger on the shifter works without the clutch when I fall back into old habits. I never twisted a driveshaft or otherwise damaged the drivetrain, something easily done with a "grabby" clutch in a big rig.
The only other draw back to the Echo is that there is no flat level area on the dashboard for 18lb Lewis (the "cat" in "techncat") to ride. He loves to watch what is going on or just sleep spread out across the dash. At least we have put a litter box for him in the trunk and by folding down the 40% of the rear seat he can access it.
Wind suseptability: I had a '68 Beatle and a '72 VW Van. There were times in the Van when I had the steering wheel almost a full turn into the wind and still couldn't quite stay in the lane. So far the Echo hasn't hinted at having any problem.
My mom had her hip replaced a couple of months ago and she loves riding in either the front or rear seats of the Echo. No problem getting in or out.
Sorry for the long post, just a lot to convey.
I have not ordered a car from them merely used their site to price cars so perhaps it is an option that you have to special order from the factory.
Lewis was a kitten we found as a stray in a park, trying to live off the food in the trash cans. He grew into a large Maine [non-permissible content removed] sort of cat and for the last 10 years has ridden in my work truck with me to the mountain top (8000'+) microwave sites I maintain, where he spends about 1/2 hr checking out the local sights, then returns to sleep within sight of me. He also goes on vacation trips with us and our folding travel trailer, as far as Newfoundland.
The power windows, from the illustrations in the owner's manual, are add-on humps to the inside of the doors. Probably a gear motor with an output shaft that couples to the existing window crank shaft. Don't think I would want it because it looks to take up valuable knee room next to the door, but as I haven't seen the thing in the flesh, I may be all wet. But I would like power/wireless door locks.
Thanks
Dealer told me that only 5% of the Echo's manufactured have power windows, so it is very hard to get. Don't know if he was just putting me off or what, because I told him I really wanted them, but he said they were not generally available. The owners manual definitely refers to them and even shows photos. I've already ordered a VIP RS3200 security system which will add keyless entry. Plan to install it myself. Will probably tint the windows and add a bra as well. When I need new tires, I'll probably get custom alloys and wider tires. No complaints so far. Just dislike the small tires. Love the pep in the 5-speed, love the gas mileage, (I have a 65 mile one-way commute), love the looks, and love that it's a Toyota for a price that's right! Glad I got the sport molding, because I think it really looks sharp compared to without.
Cheers!
Babyboomers remember when Kennedy was shot. Same echo of emotions today. Rumors about gas prices doubling sent many to fill up locally. Glad my car is an Echo.
I had half a tank in Major Tom, but I still went out to fill up. I first went out at around 2pm yesterday, but ended up coming back due to the lines. It was crazy. I ended up filling up at the Quik Trip down the street for $1.55 a gallon at around 7:30pm when the lunacy had died down. There were people at every pump, but there weren't the lines waiting to fill up.
I took the Escort down to QuikTrip at about 10pm and the comparison between 2pm and 10pm was just amazing. It was like two different places. Plenty of open pumps.
I drove by QT today and their prices never changed. They were $1.55 before the terror, $1.55 during the terror, and $1.55 one day after the terror.
Hats off to the QT corporation for not price gouging.
For a new driver, the lack of any reference points re: front or back might make it hard for him to park until he gets used to the parameters.
Othewise, the Echo is very user friendly and visibility is excellent!
I guess Edmunds doesn't know how to adjust their mirrors. Perhaps they adjust their mirrors like I used to.
I used to adjust my side mirrors so that I could see behind my car. I did not adjust them so much for close quarters. This was and is wrong.
The inside mirror is for seeing behind you. The side mirrors should be adjusted so that when objects leave the field of view in the rearview mirror, they show up in the field of view of one of the side mirrors. When they leave the field of view of one of the side mirrors, they should be in your line of sight without mirrors.
There are blind spots with the Echo, but they are not as large as Edmunds makes them out to be when your mirrors are properly adjusted.
I think the center mounted speedo will make it easier on a new driver. A new driver does not have to worry about adjusting the steering wheel in an effort to get an unobstructed view of the speedo.
But personally, I say get your father to learn to drive first and then buy the car. This way he can pick out the car that he is happiest with and meets all his requirements and driving style.
Let us know how it goes.
That said, IF I AM in a car with a center rear view mirror I feel blind if I do not adjust it correctly. The inside mirror is close enough to the driver's eyes that when I get in after my wife drives, I end up looking at the rear seat; she sees the dome light after I have driven it. The outside mirrors are not nearly so problematic, with neither side requiring adjustment normally.
A side note: the spot mirrors allow the passenger to second-guess the driver and aid in "back seat driving!"
I mentioned the scratched tint to the delaership who took the car back into the shop and found the drivers door panel was slightly bowed. This pushed the rubber strip on the inside on the window against the tint,causing extra wear and scratches. Something to consider if you are having the same problem. I see many more Echo's
than I did in April 00 when I picked it up. The car continues to turn heads and draw comment.
I was doing good on keeping the mileage fairly down until I played Amtrak for my roommate. I took her to St. Louis, dropped her off, drove home, went back to St. Louis and picked her up, and then drove us home. This added like 1200 miles on my Echo in the space of about three days.
But I thoroughly enjoyed every minute and every mile of the experience. Most of which was spent at 80mph plus.
I can see having them check the car over if your warranty is about to expire, then they have to pay for the repairs and that is a good idea. And after the warranty expires their lifetime shock, strut, and muffler program is a good value. (any of these items installed by Toyota is replaced free of charge for the life of the car) But when I saw the receipts my neighbor had for his Camry where they changed the oil, sparkplugs and air filters for $300 (and inspected the car) THAT was a rippoff.
All done by myself. A little over $ 50 so far. Is TOYOTA going to honor the guarantee considering I do all the maintenance? Yes, just in case I've kept all my receipts (oil, filters and tire rotation) and if push comes to shove, there's my mechanic who will provide me with more receipts, if necessary.