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Comments
This week I read that the Prowler, Camero, and Firebird models will be discontinued within the next two years. Hope my memory is correct on these model names. Someone reported recently that Toyota was bringing an Echo hatchback to the U.S. and then this report that the Echo will be discontinued. Makes me think that rumors doth fly too high.
The Echo may not be selling in the numbers that Toyota wants, but I don't think a replacement of the size rumored will do any better.
For me personally, the Echo is the limit as to how small a car I will buy.
My Echo is now 1 year and one month old!!! 19,700miles and no complaints!
If the Echo is going bye bye and being replaced by a vehicle that is a foot shorter, I bet it will be the Echo hatch perhaps sold under it's European name.
I don't see how there would be any way to make a sedan 12 1/2 feet in length and have room for five passengers.
If the rumors are true, I think Toyota should do themselves a favor and make more equipment, such as a clock and a tach, part of the standard package.
My most recent average is 40.3 and the tanks are much more variable than normal. I think some of the stations have the winter gas and some don't around here in November. So far the winter here has been very mild.
Merry Christmas everyone - remember while you celebrate Jesus' birth that He will return for his children!
Links to pictures on other websites are welcome, though - as long as there is no contrary TOS at the host site, of course.
Thanks.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
To access the recall information, load http://www.nhtsa.gov and click "Recalls." You can search for the 2000 Toyota ECHO, or refer to campaign number 01V326000.
I hope that this problem was already corrected for the 2001 model year.
I've been researching the car for a friend who doesn't access the internet. After reading back a few hundred post I have to say the car sounds great, reliable, ROOMY, peppy, I had been considering a Civic, but after visiting here, I want to test drive an Echo! Would love to see a hatchback version reach our shores, as some have suggested might happen..
Well, there's no activity on this board for a few days, hope some of you still come here occassionally, would love your feedback on the auto trans!
HAPPY NEW YEAR......Chris
First off, I must say that this is a fun car to drive, and has plenty of power. 108 horsepower is obviously plenty for a car that weighs only a little more than 2000#. During the breakin period it was not easy keeping it below 55 mph. The engine also seems smooth and quiet to me for a 4-cylinder one.
There is lots of interior room in this car for the driver: I am rather tall and have more than enough headroom. That is not true of very many other small cars for me. The legroom is also adequate, though at first I wasn't sure it was going to be enough. It takes some getting used to, since the seating position is different: more like maybe a small van or SUV, I think. However, I've driven several trips during which I drove for over 5 hours non-stop, and felt comfortable the whole way.
I probably got one that's on the "light" side as far as options go: manual, two-door, power steering, a/c and the standard 4-speaker radio with a tape player. I would just as soon have had manual steering, but that would have meant no air conditioning, which I absolutely wanted.
I elected to get one without the plastic body trim; I think the red ones look better that way. This is a matter of personal taste: I looked at them each way; I actually think the trim enhances the looks on some of the dark colors like the black and dark blue.
I can always easily find my car in the parking lot; I think it is a nice and distinctive looking car.
Everyone asks about gas mileage, though gasoline is so cheap right now that this doesn't matter much with a car like the Echo. But anyway, mine varies from about 35-36 if I just do in-town driving, up all the way to 44-45 if I go on a long drive and don't need to use the air conditioner.
I like manual transmissions, so of course my Echo had to have one. Some have commented that it has a "notchy" feeling, and I agree, but I don't think this is a problem. I've never had trouble "finding" a gear, and it shifts smoothly; it's just a little different than other cars I've driven. One odd thing is that the engine revs stay up at first while shifting, but I was told by the service department that this is the way they're supposed to work. Just sounds different.
I am used to driving small cars, so the Echo was a natural choice for me. I've never had any trouble controling it, nor has it ever felt like it was going to "tip over". And those "narrow" tires are really not; at 175mm, they are 10mm wider than ones I had on a previous Toyota. I've had it in moderate winds, and it just handles like a small car - no problems. (I imagine lots of the reviews and comments on these things are from people used to driving cars that are much bigger.)
I think the Echo is a good value for the price. And I like the fact that you can get it without things like power windows and doors if you don't want them.
It didn't take me any time at all to get used to the "center" speedometer. In fact, on my old car, I had a clock and radio in the center and was always glancing over, so this is no different.
Now that I have an Echo, this position seems like the best place for the speedometer; it is actually easier and faster to take a peek at versus the traditional position. (And since buying my Echo, I've driven other cars with "ordinary" positioned speedometers; there is no problem re-adjusting.) I've concluded that this issue is a big red-herring.
I have a few minor complaints, which I'll post later, but overall I am very satisfied. And thanks to the people on this message board for all of the information, which helped me in my decision on what car to buy.
1) I'd like an engine temperature gauge. The lights are fine as long as everything is working right, but when the engine is overheating, you need to know when it is _getting_ hot, not when it has _already_ overheated. So in five or so years down the road, I'll probably add one, so I don't have to worry about overheating on a hot summer day driving over a mountain pass. (By contrast, I don't miss a tachometer at all; these always seem superfluous to me anyway.)
2) Thicker sheet metal would be nice. The front fenders in particular are very thin - just tap them with your finger and you'll see. I would imagine these will dent easily. I think they went too far in saving weight; an extra 50 pounds in the sheet metal would give a more durable body and not add much to the cost, nor detract much from the gas mileage.
3) Having something more than cardboard (I think!) separating the trunk from the back seats would be good. I think that the way things slide around in the trunk, that cardboard separator will not hold up that well. (I do not have the fold-down rear seats; this might not be an issue in that case.)
4) Maybe this is inevitable because of the car's shape, but when I roll down a window in the rain (e.g. to get the mail) I get _lots_ of rain in the car. I've seen little aftermarket rain-guards for above the windows; I need to investigate.
And.... I can't think of any more right now!!
Happy motoring!
"2002(will be)one of the most difficult years carmakers have faced in a decade."
"Toyota is definitely on a roll, thanks to its expanding lineup, a reputation for quality, and solid, if unexciting, design."
"Toyota probably won't nabe the No.3 spot in 2002 unless Chrysler stumbles badly."
"...one thing is certain: The momentum in Motown clearly lies with the foreign carmakers."
Too bad I axed the Echo off the my shopping list (mainly Luxury features).
I can also smell a rotten egg smell occasionally. The dealer told me this was *normal* and had something to do with the catalytic converter. It is only intermittent. I was told to use a one-step better grade gasoline. I'm now using Amoco Silver. I still get a whiff now and then of this odor so I'm not convinced that was the fix.
The other thing I've noticed, and I haven't read about it here is a weird hesitation sensation when I drive in the 25-30 mph range. It's kind of hard to describe, but it's as though the engine isn't getting enough fuel and it slows down and speeds up without me doing anything to the gas pedal. It's not jerky, just slightly noticeable -- sort of like the feel of a cruise control adjusting speed by auto adjusting the flow of fuel. It does not happen if I go over 35-40 mph. Again, the service people explained this away as due to the *low torque*. They keep telling me that everything is normal. Unfortunately, I don't trust them.
I have been very pleased with every aspect of this vehicle and I hope what I've explained is just part of living in a cold climate. I never paid much attention to the actual gas mileage in my Blazer. It stunk and that was the bottom line. I knew it was awful so why keep a track record. However, when one buys a car FOR the gas mileage it then matters.
I can say, without a doubt, the heat in the ECHO is the best of any vehicle I've owned. This puppy can pour out the heat -- very appreciated in these here parts.
Appreciation and thanks for any feedback.
Hope this helps some!
Don
Nashville TN
I am surprised that you didn't have a block heater installed. My 2001 Echo has one now (cost about US$ 50) and I plug in the car every evening (with a timer) so it gets warmed up about 1 hour every morning. Temperatures where I live have been around 32 F and mileage is a consistent 40 MPG (in summer my average was close to 43 MPG).
By the way, starting your engine to warm it up and letting it idle is both bad for the engine and for the environment. It is much better to let it idle for may be 20 seconds and start afterwards. Don't rev the engine until the blue light goes out! And, consider using a synthetic oil, at least in winter. A 0W30 weight would be optimal but a 5w30 should be fine as well.
I've also heard that some states, esp. in the Midwest and West, require changes in wintertime gas composition - something to do with raising ethanol content. Supposedly this can knock 10%+ off of mileage, though I really don't know for sure.
I am very concerned that my gas mileage is not what it should be but the dealership has told me that they are getting figures consistent with what is expected for the vehicle. However, the math just doesn't come up when I calculate it between fill-ups. I KNOW I'm not getting the mileage they say I am. So what's the next step.?. Do you think the rotten egg smell and low mileage is related? Personally, I do.
Headbolt heaters work great if you are near an electrical outlet . I usually only warm the car for about 5 minutes or less. Most of the time the blue light is still on when I get into the vehicle. I am very consciencous about our environment -- hence the main reason I jettisoned the SUV. I'm a tree-hugging vegan who, unfortunately, has Raynaud's disease. I'd give anything not to have to warm the vehicle up slightly. Back to the gas mileage, on would not think this minimal amount of warm-up time would cause the less than ideal gas mileage, or does it impact it that much?
In regards to warm-ups, you see a lot of recommendations to warm-up the car 30 sec. to maybe a minute in real cold weather and then drive at moderate speeds till the light goes off. I think that is valid in most cases. But when it gets really cold here in TN, you are inevitably running the defroster and scraping for 3-5 minutes or longer. I would be sure the idling does eat away at the gas mileage in these circumstances esp. on shorter trips of 10-15 min. or less. This is very easy to see if you drive a Prius that has the average and instantaneous mpg indicators. And I am sure this happens with other cars also.
Don
Recently, my mileage had been slipping; replaced the air filter and changed oil (I use mobil 1 5-30 and change every 5k)and the mileage went back up dramatically. The air filter is very small so if it's dirty, you'll have much poorer performance.
Also, tire pressure at 33psi improved mileage a lot over 32psi.
>Could the hesitation in your car be
the auto trans not shifting quickly enough at a certain speed? Or is it like a fuel
supply issue?
It 'feels' like a fuel supply issue. My husband insists I'm letting up on the gas pedal (I'm not). He says he notices that in this vehicle once you let up on the gas pedal you slow down much quicker (probably the torque thing) which would make sense. What I'm experiencing is a fluctuation while I'm applying steady pressure to the pedal -- but only in the 20-30 mph range. Of course, this is the majority of my driving.
As far as warming the car up, again, I try to keep it to a minimum, but as you suggest if you don't warm it up a bit you do spend a lot of time scraping windows, running the defroster etc. It is not very safe driving with frosted up windows. We have had a very mild winter -- only a few days below zero, but when the temps go to -20 or -30 which they will do on occasion, I wouldn't even think of driving a vehicle that had not warmed up for at least 5 minutes. I think when the manual says not to warm a car up in cold weather -- cold to the manufacuturer is probably 20 degrees :-)
I am starting to think that my poor fuel economy is the colder temps coupled by my short trips around town. On a trip we took last month I got 47 mpg. I can not complain about that, I just wish the in-town mileage was a bit better than 25. I hope to see some improvement as the weather warms up. My husband and are are very particular about car maintenance and always change the oil, filter, etc. at 2000 miles like clock work so that would not be the cause of less than wonderful gas mileage either. I only have 2500 miles on the car so maybe it will improve with age also.
This is a nice forum for Echo lovers. It really is a fantastic car in so many respects. We had a Corolla LE on order as we had owned a Corolla many years ago and just loved it. The dealer called us when a Echo came in and said we should come take a look at it. (We are in the age group the Echo was not targeted for -- like middle aged .) We were immediately drawn to the amount of room and seating position. The next day I called the dealer and told him to put a *SOLD* tag on the Echo and we drove it off the lot that night. Our Corolla came in about 3 weeks later and I didn't feel one pang of regret. I'm almost afraid to admit that we got a silver one -- yeah, that boring, common color :-) I still think it looks very nice though.
I have never seen an Echo with a wheel/tire package, but I am sure you can get one. Check out http://www.tirerack.com for more info and a pic model of the Echo with the wheels you pick for it.
Has anyone else had this happen and have you had it checked out?
Cheers,
Don
P.S. Silver looks like one of the best colors for the echo, IMHO.
I'd say you are lucky to get 25 mpg, too.
Also, here is how I calculate real-world mileage:
1) At gas station, fill up until pump automatically shuts off. Reset trip odometer.
2) Drive as usual until tank is no more than 1/4 full.
3) Return to gas station and refuel (with same station and pump if possible) until pump automatically shuts off.
4) Divide the trip odometer reading by the amount of fuel dispensed in step 3, and you'll have your fuel economy for the driving you just did.
It's important to run the tank down as far as possible before refueling. The variability of the pump shutoff introduces error into the calculations, and spreading that error over more gallons of fuel minimizes the impact of that error.
let your car idle to warm up and then you drive only SIX miles/day in town.
Pathetic isn't it. If I didn't live in the Dakotas (with our wind !!) I'd be walking, but it's just too cold in the winter. Anyway, you make me feel better about the 25 mpg figure, and I'm even more confident that the mileage will improve greatly as the weather does. Thanks for the hints on calculating the gas. I have been doing more or less how you suggest, but have been re-filling at the 1/2 tank level and not using the same pump. Those two changes will be minor to make.
On the idle subject. Can you or someone explain to my why idling seems to use so much gas. It doesn't make sense that it should, but that certainly doesn't seem to be the case. Like I said previously, I do keep it to a minimum (only on the coldest of days) and the blue light is usually still on when I get in to drive.
trunk & drive that baby down here to Florida. U need a break from the ND winter & FL needs
your tourist money! Keep track of your MPG & when u get home, think you'll be pleased with
the result of your calculation....Just a thought!
BTW - last summer we had a seminarian interning at our local church staying with us. He
was from ND & his biggest complaint that he & his family had to drive 400 miles to go to
an Orthodox church, so needless to say they weren't real regular about attending!! He didn't mind the winters there so much as he was born in Siberia & his parents migrated to ND when he was about 10; he thought u guys had pretty mild winters!!!
Regards,
Don