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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans
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Comments
My only out of pocket expense has been a new set of Michelin Pilot Sports. ($900)
rtcjr: You mentioned that you had a rattle at the back window area. When mine was new I heard what I thought was a rattle but it was the trunk lid gasket squeaking. I put a lubricant on it and it was cured.
Now, I'm thinking of trading my car in because I want a larger SUV. I think I could get at least $32/$33K on trade.
Mark
It is shocking to see how much MB has spent on warranty work due to poor quality materials-
First 3 years - 4 power window controllers -
vanity mirror lid
dash board- from the airbag perforation opening up.
Today - Both headlight and parking light UNITS due to serious deterioration of the lenses. Supposedly many labor hours. Went from yellow to crystal clear.
Second time to "redye" the front seat leather.
Replaced the gummy control switches on the steering wheel.
R/R the famous drink holder.
I'm sure they spent about $3,000 not to mention the loaners and my time -
Otherwise the car performs extremely well- especially after I replaced the OEM continentals with Bridgestone Turanzas - a world of a difference.
Are these problems SOP with MB ??? I am certain that the dealer enjoys the work.
Also, has anyone had problems with rust forming under minor paint chips - from rocks etc. It appears that if the prep and primer were done properly there should not be any rust-just chips,
Looking forward to your comments.
PS - I have a feeling that the battery is going a die right before the warranty expires.
HOWEVER, I would really like to see Mercedes import the E270 CDI 6-speed manual transmission. A friend in London is considering one. It gives up a bit in performance (0-100 kpm in 8.4 sec) to the E320, but gets even better fuel economy and - here's the charmer - is roughly the equivalent of $8,000 less than the E320 CDI. A U.S. version E270 CDI 6-speed with a base price of about $39,900 would be a slam dunk in my opinion. Especially after BMW managed to both botch the design and significantly raise the price of the new 5-series.
Anyone else like to add their name to a buyer list to send to the Mercedes executives who apparantly think Americans don't know how to drive a stick?
As for the 270 CDI 6-speed, that is a great car. A significant amount of the $8,000 price savings is in the form of lower luxury content. But for someone who wants a good performing, solidly built E-class, at an extremely competitive price, the 270CDI "Classic" model is as good as it gets.
Mercedes has pretty much handed the sport sedan market to BMW here in the U.S.. I believe they have created a self fulfilling prophesy that there would be little demand for a manual transmission E-class. I doubt that will change, but the 270CDI 6-speed would be a great way to introduce Mercedes to a lot of new buyers who think the standard E class is too stodgy and expensive and the C-class too small and inferior in performance to the 3-series.
The image in the USA is 'luxury' not breadth of offering as in Europe. I would guess that they make 75% margin on the 8K difference in price. So WHY would they want to do sell 270CDI's in place of 320CDI's, unless they are going for a much broader product line here.
The U.S. is a tough market for a broad, highly differentiated model line. It's physically much larger than Europe with a similar population. Different models, say an E with $8K less content and a different motor, means different bits and pieces, more parts spread all over the U.S. for service. $$$!
I think that MB carefully weighs investments and puts money where they get the biggest bang for the buck. That's why I think that they won't bring it over.
Now, they could do something spiffy with Chrysler and put the 270CDI engine in one of their cars like a Sebring and hope it sells. The six speed tranny and torquey motor might cause a stir and help Chrysler out of its tailspin.
They gotta do something there before it really crimps their budgets for MB.
I think the E class taken down to the low $40k's in price would open up a market here. After all BMW sells a lot of 525i's with automatic and non-sport package in that price range, but Mercedes has nothing to compete and I think the E270CDI would stack up well against the 525i. From what I've seen from their German web site, the E-class over in Europe has at least 7-8 different engine offerings and 2-3 distinct trim levels (Classic, elegance, avant garde). I certainly wouldn't expect them to bring everything over to the states, but the E270 CDI 6-speed still gets my vote.
On the "luxury" image issue, if they can offer a C-class Coupe here, they certainly won't damage their reputation with an E270 CDI which is about 5 rungs up the quality/luxury ladder.
If you send me an e-mail, I'll provide contact info. BTW, my local dealer in Maryland estimated that the MB factory warranty covers about 90% of the original bumper-to-bumper warranty. I would opt for this coverage rather than an independent warranty company.
M
The emissions and safety certification is indeed expensive. For each model you have to emissions and safety test each variation of the powertrain. So adding a manual transmission option would be very expensive.
I'd love to see the E270 CDI 6 speed manual in the US, but I'd be surprised if they could sell more than 1000 of them.
I do have a few rock chips on the front but no rust and my headlight lenses are crystal clear.
I'm thinking of trading mine soon and hope to get top dollar, we'll see.
mark156
Compare that with BMW where a new 2004 530i listing for $52k could be purchased at $1,200 over ED Invoice for about $46k.
Enlighten me if the MB ED program has been revised to offer serious discounts. From my past experience, it was simply a novelty.
Unfortunately - and the reason I am here looking at the E-class board - the 2004 530i is not only about $4,500 more expensive than the 2003 (could have got for $41,700 through ED), it is also an aesthetic dissapointment.
Back to ED: With BMW's program discount (7%) combined with several BMW dealers who have agreed to discount the car to $1,200 over the ED invoice, I can get a 5-series for roughly 12% under US MSRP. I believe Mercedes standard ED discounts are less generous (4.5% +/-)and, at least when I checked a few years ago, the dealers were unwilling to negotiate further discounts. I even had one dealer who offered to beat the ED price for a E300TD if I took delivery in the US. I'm not sure why.
Do you have new and different info on Mercedes ED program? A 2004 E320 CDI at about 12% under US MSRP would likely convert me to Mercedes, but I don't think that's likely.
The vibration is caused by a warped rotor. It can be caused by washing the car immediately after a hard drive. The rotors are still hot and will react badly to the cold water. So always wait at least an hour before washing the car. I recall washing the car right after a hard drive a few weeks after the rotors were first replaced and seeing the steam rise off the rotors. I learned my lesson.. For free this time..!
Turns out it was the Goodyear F1 tires. As soon as I replaced them with Sumitomos, total silence.
Just food for thought.
But he will give discount 2K if we order the 2004-rear wheel drive.
I like to know what others think and experience about the price of 2004/E320 4 matic or rearwheeldrive ?
Mark156
Currently, I'm considering purchasing a 525i or 530i via the ED program. I'd prefer to order from a San Francisco Bay Area BMW dealership. The best deal offered so far on a 525i is about 10% off U.S. MSRP (i.e., Base + Options), excluding destination charge of $695. Given the options I want on the car, the cost savings amounts to $4,350, which is $1,600 better than the cost savings of $2,750 advertised in the ED Program section of the BMW N.A. web-site.
Nevertheless, this still leaves about $700 on the table based on the cost savings opportunity described in posting #5373. It suggested a pricing of $1,200 above the ED invoice price and it was being offered by a few dealerships. Is anyone aware of a dealer offering this type of deal on a new 2004 5-series via Euro Delivery? If so, can you share this information.
On the other hand, the deal you apparantly have been offered on a U.S. 525i - $4,350 under MSRP - is almost too good to pass up. That's under US invoice?!? Is that for a 2004 model? Demo?
As much as I am an advocate for ED, it's certainly not worth traveling to Europe to save an additional $700. You'll spend at least that in travel expenses and you will be without the car for 4-6 weeks after you drop it off in Europe. ED is good if you are a cash buyer and have another car you can use during the time your ED BMW is in transit between Europe and the US. But even I wouldn't do it unless the savings were at least $500-$1,000+ AFTER deducting for travel expenses.
boiler,
That's the same story I got from Mercedes 2-3 years ago when I considered and E320 Wagon. However, I am now considereing an E320 CDI when they become available for the US next spring and intend to check into the ED program further. I'll post here in the next 1-2 days what I find out from a friend who is a leasing executive for Mercedes.
He guessed that the E320 CDI will come in at almost exactly the same price as the E320 gasoline, and will probably not be discounted much from MSRP until pent up demand is satisfied. Apparently, I'm not the only one who has been waiting for the return of the turbodiesel, since it's departure in 1999.
what should I expect to pay for a used 420/430 in Atlanta???...and finally, we have a number of "independent" MB dealers all over Atlanta, used car lots on the various highways, stocking anywhere from 15 to 35 used MBs, but they do not sell new ones...should I consider buying from one of these guys???...I know without big buildings and service depts, on 2-3 acre lots, they have a much lower overhead than a franchised MB dealer, so they may sell better, but is it worth it???...some of them in quasi-seedy parts of town, do they sell real MBs, or only grey market cars to avoid???...in essence, should I risk a nonfranchised dealer to save money, or am I making a huge mistake to even consider such???
If you don't siginificantly prize the difference in the way the Mercedes drives vs the Lexus go for the Lexus.
The E430 and E420 engines are significantly different. The later E430 is a simpler, less costly and more efficient design which should be less costly to feed and maintain in the long run. True enthusiest would probbably prefer the cams and valves of the 420 but most folks wouldn't know the difference.
My present car is a 00 E320 RWD with a hands free phone system and an after market nav system with a motorized screen that flips out of the compartment located just above the ashtray.
I will be removing these items when I turn the car in sometime in late Feb 2004.
Is anyone interested in purchasing these items for their 2000 (or earlier) E classes ?
The cost of the hands free system (new) when installed by the dealer was about $1500.
The cost of the CD based nav system was $1100 for the motorized screen and $500 for the CD based unit.
However, I believe that it's incorrect to say that 'durability' and 'reliability' are unrelated. Think about it ... if something is so durable, how come it fails more often than the same items in competitive vehicles?
When it comes to automobiles and almost any other manufactured goods, reliability and durability are directly related.
Reliability in this case, is the likelihood that the car will serve its purpose, whether its driving through Mississippi or down to the local convenience store. Durability directly impacts reliability. The longer a component or system in the car lasts, the more time that elapses between failures and therefore you get better reliability. Reliability is also impacted by poor design, out of tolerance components, incorrect assembly and in the case of software, "bugs".
Mercedes' less that stellar reliability is directly impacted by all of these issues. The Japanese car companies, independent of where their vehicles are made, simply design and build higher reliability vehicles. Toyota usually ranks in the top three in any vehicle segment and Lexus usually is #1 in its class. Overall Infiniti ranks right behind Toyota.
I also recently read that there are more "reported" very high mileage Toyota's around that Mercedes in the U.S. including the 1983 Toyota Corolla in California with 2.3 million miles on it. Durability is not an issue with Japanese cars (even though it was back in the early 70's.)
The other thing to consider about any car is it's 'Availability'. Is it available for use when you want it?
Because of the reliability issues, Mercedes also have much lower 'availability' than their Japanese competitors. They are in the shop more often because of the reliability issues. While it's there, you don't have the use of your car, though you may get a 'loaner'. You are still out the time to take it there and go fetch it (unless your MB dealer does service pick up and delivery - some do.)
If you find a specific E, make sure you check the Consumer Reports for that particular year and model. The E usually gets an 'average' reliability rating from them and sometimes lower.
From a family perspective, my niece is driving my sister's old 1995 Acura Legend. It has 185,000 miles, looks, and drives wonderfully. The interior is in top notch condition. My mother-in-law has a 2000 Lexus ES300 coming up on 85K. Zero problems, no out of book service.
http://www.mercedesshop.com/shopforum/showthread.php3?s=&thre- adid=71723
The reason a Mercedes is such a great car is not necessarily because of reliability, but I do believe they are durable and should last well into the 200K mile mark with good maintenance. In addition, A Mercedes with 100K miles will run as well as many cars with 20K miles. My car runs as smoothly and quietly now as it did when new.
There is a great independant Mercedes mechanic in the north Duluth are called MBAutowerks. I have had my car seviced there for the last two years. They are cheaper than the dealer and their work is arguably of better quality.
If you decide to purchase a Mercedes I would highly recommend them for service. This would make purchasing a car with an extended warranty unnecessary. Keep in mind you will pay 2-3K more for a Starmark car than for one sold by an independant party.
Good luck.
My 96 E320 has 127,000 miles and it rides and drives like it had only 27,000 miles on it. I've never owned any other car beyond 104,000 because they would become noisy and the ride and handling, even with replacement shocks etc., became annoying. I've done all the same things to the E that I had done to other brands, shocks, suspension bushings, tires, etc. but it did cost more on the E. And I have just had the head gasket replaced, but I've not needed alternators, water pumps, etc like most other cars I've owned at much lower mileages.
So, would I call the E320 more reliable? Well, it has never stranded me anyplace. All the problems were gradual in nature so that I had time to arrange for repairs. But it did have problems, where a Mazda I owned 10 years ago had no problems at all in 99,000 miles. Is it durable? I certainly think so since it still looks like new, inside and out and I've kept it beyond the 100K mile mark and have no immediate plans to get rid of it. I still have confidence that it is a safe, comfortable ride. Hopefully, now that I've had the head gasket, suspension, and brakes all upgraded, it will give at least 2 or 3 more years of good service.
Toyota sells a lot more cars than Mercedes so there should be more Toyotas around with high miles. This statement says nothing about Mercedes-Benz. The percentage is key here not the number of cars.
"Durability is not an issue with Japanese cars (even though it was back in the early 70's."
Wrong. Outside of Toyota and Honda, and *certain* Nissan products...that cannot be said about all "Japanese" cars. Honda in particular has had some problems lately.
M
You are right again.
The %'s would be better since even Lexus outsells MB from a numerical point of view. I just went by what I saw on a couple of web sites.
Also, since we agree that Reliability and Durability are related, one can conclude that the expectation of current vehicles underlying 'durability' is indicated by its reliability.
That might indicate that not only are MB's not as reliable as the competition, they are no longer more durable, except for the folks that like to take them to dealers to replace what's wearing out all the time. You can't mean that it is appropriate that they are ranked with the lower Japanese companies like Suzuki and Subaru, and the cars from Korea like Kia and Hyundai.
The recent press coverage about lowering used car MB residuals and resale prices is also an indicator that the reliability and durability issues are being picked up by the market and media.