Could it be that drivers of manual transmision cars just have enough smarts to put the vehicle into NEUTRAL - no accident, no notification of unintended acceleration!
Could it be that drivers of manual transmision cars just have enough smarts to put the vehicle into NEUTRAL - no accident, no notification of unintended acceleration
Yes, it could be.
Statistically speaking, however, from the number of complaints I've heard thrown around, however, it would be most doubtful.
Not every driver of a manual transmission is that great of a driver. They have accidents the same as those driving automatics.
That story sounds, excuse me, rather fanciful if you think about it.
So how does the guy who is pulling up in a car with WOT actually contact the dealer staff inside? Does he set the emergency brake and stroll inside? And what is this WOT car doing while a technician is summoned to the scene?
does the driver honk his horn and wait patiently while the car lurches and smokes?
Why does no one come running out of the dealership screaming SHUT IT OFF!!! with about a million dollars in new cars surrounding the wailing, smoking vehicle??
I think that was very early production cars. But anyway, it's an easy job and the parts are cheap $50 bucks + .5 of one hour labor.
Remember UA incidents with Chevy V-8s? The motor mount would break, causing the engine to drop, causing the throttle rod to be pull forward to WOT, also causing the power brake vacuum booster hose to pull out, also causing the engine to fall on the steering arm.
So WOT, no brakes, no steering!
Now *THAT* is a world-class, genius level UA defect. Take *that* Toyota! :P
Why yes I never though about actually *improving* a defect----well, as the engine dropped and did all those other awful things, it could have also activated the hood release and popped it up in front of the windshield!
Remember UA incidents with Chevy V-8s? The motor mount would break, causing the engine to drop, causing the throttle rod to be pull forward to WOT, also causing the power brake vacuum booster hose to pull out, also causing the engine to fall on the steering arm.
not sure if this was addressed (and no, I did not read that far back!), but were the nasa or other researchers given full access to the black box from the wrecked Lexus, and the reading software/hardware that toyota guards so well?
if the problem really was in the car not moving to neutral or some such, shouldn't that tell you?
it always seemed like a big red flag that the manufacturer was the only one with access to the only real data about what was happening.
and put me in the camp of not believing that a CHP officer, with other people in the car, over that long a distance never managed to put the car in neutral (if the claim that it was still a real, effective option is true).
I had the hood fly up on my 1953 Nash Rambler back in high school. Driving to school early one morning, half asleep, and BAM, I was blind !!. Probably doing about 40 mph on secondary highway, no traffic to speak of etc. I stuck my head out the window and managed to navigate to the shoulder and stop.
I am sure it was all my fault for not latching the hood securely. Bent a couple of the hinges, etc. Big hammer, easy fix.
If I recall correctly, it (data recorder) burned in the subsequent fire and was too damaged to divulge any information.
And, if my memory serves me correctly, the CHP officer did manage to stop at least once during the "event". There are witnesses to that effect that told investigators they saw him sitting on the side of the road before the accident, along with at least one witness claiming to see smoke coming from the car.
In response to a question from the media during the government's Toyota announcement Q&A I think that NHTSA's administrator last week referred to a Lexus 350ES exemplar UA car ......is that the one that burned up? The administartor said they continue to examine that car. Meanwhile, NAS will eventually produce its report.
Well, as long as we are throwing out theories and/or "what ifs", what if the driver had suffered some sort of medical emergency and had become disoriented? That could certainly explain why he wasn't acting in a rational manner.
No evidence you say? Well, lack of evidence hasn't slowed down the "hang Toyota crowd" !!
You know, I don't mean to be lacking in compassion, but if someone like that had a terrifying incident with UA, stopped the car, and then got back into it and drove it, you gotta wonder if they had their head screwed on straight.
Remember UA incidents with Chevy V-8s? The motor mount would break, causing the engine to drop, causing the throttle rod to be pull forward to WOT
Yep. The recall, which consisted of adding a restraint cable between the engine and the mount or frame to prevent to engine from shifting should the motor mount break, affected my '69 Z-28.
I can guarantee that if it had been my family, my wife would have been standing on the side of the road if I decided to drive off in it again.
I know that this particular car was a loaner, but if something like that happened to our car, it would be traded in ASAP since she would never go near it again.
"..Not every driver of a manual transmission is that great of a driver.."
But, FIRST RULE....
You MUST depress the clutch in order to shift gears. How do you go about learning such a fundamental thing without gaining the understanding of the function and importance of the clutch pedal...?
Great driver or no, depressing the clutch becomes instinctive way to early in the learning experience.
and put me in the camp of not believing that a CHP officer, with other people in the car, over that long a distance never managed to put the car in neutral (if the claim that it was still a real, effective option is true).
You know, sometimes airline and military pilots mess up too - no one is perfect in a crisis - a little simulator time will open your eyes up to that!
You MUST depress the clutch in order to shift gears. How do you go about learning such a fundamental thing without gaining the understanding of the function and importance of the clutch pedal...?
Great driver or no, depressing the clutch becomes instinctive way to early in the learning experience.
I fully agree with your comment, as far as it goes.
Still, manual operators come in a wide range of capabilities, from expert to EXTREME novice abilities.
Both of my daughters can operate a car with a manual transmission. My younger one can actually "drive" the car, while my older one can force it to go where she wants it to go.
In a panic situation, I would suspect my younger daughter would cope much better with the situation.
Put them in a car with an automatic, and they are both very capable drivers. Some folks just don't get the "coordination" thing as well as others.
Just because one can force a car to do what they wish, or pass a driver's test, in no way makes them a "capable" driver, IMO.
We should also remember that there's no guarantee the car the witness saw was indeed Saylor's car.
But, if it was, and it was only going 25mph, I think I would have decided to have everyone (including myself) bail out, rather than getting back on the road...up to "ramming" speed.
But, that's just me doing some "armchair-quarter-backing".
The guy is trained to react to a surprise situation within a few seconds; and then make the right decision to fire or not. You guys make it sound like a CHP officer couldn't tell his flashlight from his gun from his taser given a whole minute.
Something was wrong with that vehicle that neither the transmission or brakes - probably overheated and then ineffectual, was going to stop that vehicle.
Airline pilots, military, and police do not freeze for extended periods of time. The normal human being doesn't either. I have a manual and like today I mixup when starting off 1st gear with Reverse. I move about 3" for a split-second before realizing my mistake. I do not sit there stomping on the gas for 30 seconds going in the wrong direction. I'm not an athlete. I'm a normal 50 year old person. If UA only happened to people over 75 yr old, then I would guess human error mainly.
I assume you no longer have it. Do you wish you did?
Sometimes. More to have it as a play toy than anything else. I got rid of it when the first oil crisis hit in 1973(?). Gas went from $0.30/gallon to near $1.00/gal in a short period of time, IIRC. Not a good time to own something that got 12 mpg and needed super premium to run.
But cars have come a long way since then. Back then, 7 sec 0-60 and 14 sec quarter mile times were considered fast. Nowadays, you can buy a Civic or a Kia that can almost do the same thing :P .
Saylor, on that initial UA tried shifting into neutral and "stabbed" at the start/stop button with no good effect. But, the brakes were good enough that first time to bring the car to stop, maybe even with a contribution from the grassy (slippery) median.
So, now he digs out the owners manual and discovers the 3 second rule with the start/stop PB.
"..Oh, that's why the engine wouldn't shut off.."
So he continues on his was not realizing that not only are the brakes compromised but in reality the engine/transaxle controlling ECU goes into "live-lock" wherein neither shifting into neutral nor the PB will work.
Speaking of the PB...
Does the 3 second rule apply if I'm fully stopped..? Or fully stopped and have shifted into park or neutral...?? In these latter cases does a simple depression of the PB shut down the engine..??
The guy is trained to react to a surprise situation within a few seconds; and then make the right decision to fire or not. You guys make it sound like a CHP officer couldn't tell his flashlight from his gun from his taser given a whole minute
What you refuse to accept is these folks are still human, and they DO make mistakes. If it weren't so, you would never see cases of police brutality on video, where they simply lost control of their emotions.
Whether or not Saylor's Lexus had problems is a totally separate issue.
To simply refuse the possibility of human error is ANYTHING but realistic.
Let's presume that the cruise control did freak out and go WOT and, by devilish co-incidence, his brake light switch was defective even before he got in the car. We know this cruise control defect has happened to other people right here on Edmunds, but not in a car with a push button ignition. And their brake switch didn't fail them.
Then, when the cruise went WOT, he actually didn't know what to do---his options were to turn off the ignition or put the car in neutral. Stepping on the brake wouldn't cut off the CC because the switch was no good.
He chose neither because he panicked and also didn't know how to do either one.
But cars have come a long way since then. Back then, 7 sec 0-60 and 14 sec quarter mile times were considered fast. Nowadays, you can buy a Civic or a Kia that can almost do the same thing.
Yes... Back in 1969, the "magic" engine builder could only hope to get 1 HP per cubic inch in an engine.
Now, its almost a given in any stock engine to exceed that ratio.
Still, I miss those cars. Back then, nothing looked better than a RoadRunner, GTX, Camaro, GT500, etc.
We will never know the specifics, but I agree with your premise.
At a minimum, he experienced the floor mat issue... maybe more, maybe not.
Even the most experienced driver can have an off day, and couple that with unexpected vehicle-based problems and you often get tragic results.
Over 50% of airline crashes, from what I understand, are due in some major part to pilot error. That doesn't mean that they were bad pilots, only that in a particular situation... made the incorrect choice, resulting in a negative outcome.
I'm up to page 17 and so far it looks like the car had never yet successfully made a complete stop. Slowing to 25 at one point, 40 to 45 at another later point, surging by one witness (that others did not see when they observed, probably later when the brakes had been too hot and with too little engine vacuum boost due to the higher revs and constant pumping of the brakes while being in freakout mode) which is what the car would look like it was doing if the guy had been applying brakes then letting off.
I suspect that during that time, at some point Saylor likely did think to try neutral, but it was either locked out electronically for whatever potential reason, that, as the general public, we may never know or confirm for sure, OR... due to panic and confusion, he was moving the lever, but it might have been in the manual position which does not provide for a neutral slot until pulling or pushing it over into that gate, so was never able to get it to the neutral position. If he is pulling and pushing that, in that position, it would be up and downshifting. And all the while brakes getting hotter and hotter.
IF it was the mat, he had to have had the weakest handgrip in the CHP force to not be able to reach down and pull/RIP the originating carpet tabs, by pulling the mat out of the way. Actually those tabs would not rip out, but they do hold the mat in place with a vengeance. But in a panic situation like that, surely adrenaline would make the difference in getting the damn mat outta there.
No, I'm not going to believe that he had cruise failure, brake switch failure, ignition switch failure and neutral locator failure all at once. That is simply beyond belief.
IF it was the mat, he had to have had the weakest handgrip in the CHP force to not be able to reach down and pull/RIP the originating carpet tabs, by pulling the mat out of the way. Actually those tabs would not rip out, but they do hold the mat in place with a vengeance. But in a panic situation like that, surely adrenaline would make the difference in getting the damn mat outta there.
As I understand it, the mats in the car were not the correct ones for that make/model, but possibly SUV mats.
I'm reading page 18 now, and there they are saying "He stated a mat for a Lexus SUV would not have been implemented in a sedan. The retaining clips that keep the mat from slipping only match the corresponding mat. Witness Ezratty was confident they always put the right mat into the right vehicle." Well of course he is going to say that if he smells a lawsuit. The cops already have identified the part numbers of incorrect mats back on page 2 or 3..
edit - so now on page 20 they have determined the wrong mats fit the clips and floorpan area, BUT will jam the accel pedal, which the proper mats do not.
So here we have a lot attendant that his trying to protect his job, but on the other hand, just how observant do we expect a lot guy to be? Is he expected to notice that if the mat is clipped in fine and not bunched up, whether the 250 he just vacuumed had 400 mats? I say no way. Someone at some point, didn't have a 'dirty/used' set of 350 mats and said, "here, use these, the 400 mats fit, i've done it before".
Which is what I said back about 2 months ago.
See? I didn't even have to read this report, lol ...
To those who don't believe it was human error-- would this (below) be enough evidence for you.
SCENARIO -- a 48 state clearing house is created wherein anyone reporting a UA incident in a Toyota brings their car in for testing. Each car is driven for 6 months day and night, and the owner compensated handsomely for the use of the car. At the end of the 6 months, after 600 cars were tested that had claims of UA, not one car demonstrated a UA incident in 14 million total miles of testing.
due to panic and confusion, he was moving the lever, but it might have been in the manual position which does not provide for a neutral slot until pulling or pushing it over into that gate, so was never able to get it to the neutral position. If he is pulling and pushing that, in that position, it would be up and downshifting. And all the while brakes getting hotter and hotter.
Yes, I have mentioned that here before and it could certainly have happened that way.
And reading now that his own car in for service and wty, was a 250. The 250 had paddle and redundant shift lever manual mode, and the 350 had no paddle buttons on the wheel.
What is the time to push and hold the starter button when the car is stopped and in Park? 3 seconds if in gear, but does anyone know the normal time? 3 seconds in that UA scene would seem like a long time, and i wonder if you woukld have to hold the button beyond the 3 seconds until the engine quit turning, which could take a looooong time if he pushed it when engine was revving near redline.
While I don't mean to sound insensitive to this guy and his poor innocent family, but gosh he sounds like a doofuss, UNLESS, it was a locked/jammed scene that really didn't didn't let him find neutral using the proper method.
Even when he had it at 25 mph on the shoulder, if i had superheated my brakes prior and nothing was working, I can tell you definitively, if that was me I would have steered that sucker sharp into the guard rail and let it drag itself along the rail till the tires were scrubbed to the rims. With any luck it would have popped a CV joint.
I am, and always have been, decidedly on the side of the fence that says this was (ultimately) driver error, even if the car did lock up on him, I know what happened would not happened to me. I would have ground the panels down to shreds before letting that sucker take control of me..
And we've read before that some transmissions will "protect themselves" by monitoring redline and refusing to shift into neutral at WOT.
I'm not convinced that Saylor did not try to shift the Lexus into neutral. But other commenters note that the 911 operator told him to shift into neutral and he replied something to the effect that he was trying to control the car.
A better thing is to hard-wire a toggle switch (the hard to press click type found on say, an old canister vac) between the battery and the main computer. Put it someplace like under the steering wheel, out of the way. It may never get used, but it's there in case of an emergency.
Comments
Yes, it could be.
Statistically speaking, however, from the number of complaints I've heard thrown around, however, it would be most doubtful.
Not every driver of a manual transmission is that great of a driver. They have accidents the same as those driving automatics.
So how does the guy who is pulling up in a car with WOT actually contact the dealer staff inside? Does he set the emergency brake and stroll inside? And what is this WOT car doing while a technician is summoned to the scene?
does the driver honk his horn and wait patiently while the car lurches and smokes?
Why does no one come running out of the dealership screaming SHUT IT OFF!!! with about a million dollars in new cars surrounding the wailing, smoking vehicle??
I mean, c'mon.....
You're preaching to the choir.
But, like UA in general, it makes for a good story in the media.
Don't you drive a MINI?
If so, have you had any issues with the upper-right engine (motor) mount?
It contains a viscous fluid, that when the mount fails, leaks out.
And, it seems its failure rate is once every 25-30 K miles.
Now, back to our regularly scheduled programming...
Remember UA incidents with Chevy V-8s? The motor mount would break, causing the engine to drop, causing the throttle rod to be pull forward to WOT, also causing the power brake vacuum booster hose to pull out, also causing the engine to fall on the steering arm.
So WOT, no brakes, no steering!
Now *THAT* is a world-class, genius level UA defect. Take *that* Toyota! :P
So WOT, no brakes, no steering!
Ahhhhh, yes....
Good times.... Good times indeed!
if the problem really was in the car not moving to neutral or some such, shouldn't that tell you?
it always seemed like a big red flag that the manufacturer was the only one with access to the only real data about what was happening.
and put me in the camp of not believing that a CHP officer, with other people in the car, over that long a distance never managed to put the car in neutral (if the claim that it was still a real, effective option is true).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I am sure it was all my fault for not latching the hood securely. Bent a couple of the hinges, etc. Big hammer, easy fix.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
And, if my memory serves me correctly, the CHP officer did manage to stop at least once during the "event". There are witnesses to that effect that told investigators they saw him sitting on the side of the road before the accident, along with at least one witness claiming to see smoke coming from the car.
No evidence you say? Well, lack of evidence hasn't slowed down the "hang Toyota crowd" !!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Yep. The recall, which consisted of adding a restraint cable between the engine and the mount or frame to prevent to engine from shifting should the motor mount break, affected my '69 Z-28.
I know that this particular car was a loaner, but if something like that happened to our car, it would be traded in ASAP since she would never go near it again.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
gagrice, "Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall" #3042, 3 Apr 2010 5:10 am
But, FIRST RULE....
You MUST depress the clutch in order to shift gears. How do you go about learning such a fundamental thing without gaining the understanding of the function and importance of the clutch pedal...?
Great driver or no, depressing the clutch becomes instinctive way to early in the learning experience.
You know, sometimes airline and military pilots mess up too - no one is perfect in a crisis - a little simulator time will open your eyes up to that!
You MUST depress the clutch in order to shift gears. How do you go about learning such a fundamental thing without gaining the understanding of the function and importance of the clutch pedal...?
Great driver or no, depressing the clutch becomes instinctive way to early in the learning experience.
I fully agree with your comment, as far as it goes.
Still, manual operators come in a wide range of capabilities, from expert to EXTREME novice abilities.
Both of my daughters can operate a car with a manual transmission. My younger one can actually "drive" the car, while my older one can force it to go where she wants it to go.
In a panic situation, I would suspect my younger daughter would cope much better with the situation.
Put them in a car with an automatic, and they are both very capable drivers. Some folks just don't get the "coordination" thing as well as others.
Just because one can force a car to do what they wish, or pass a driver's test, in no way makes them a "capable" driver, IMO.
My "dream car" when I was growing up. IMO, the best body style of the Camaro series!
Alas, I never got one...
I assume you no longer have it. Do you wish you did?
http://autos.aol.com/gallery/Saylor-crash-report/
Page 13...
But, if it was, and it was only going 25mph, I think I would have decided to have everyone (including myself) bail out, rather than getting back on the road...up to "ramming" speed.
But, that's just me doing some "armchair-quarter-backing".
Something was wrong with that vehicle that neither the transmission or brakes - probably overheated and then ineffectual, was going to stop that vehicle.
Airline pilots, military, and police do not freeze for extended periods of time. The normal human being doesn't either. I have a manual and like today I mixup when starting off 1st gear with Reverse. I move about 3" for a split-second before realizing my mistake. I do not sit there stomping on the gas for 30 seconds going in the wrong direction. I'm not an athlete. I'm a normal 50 year old person. If UA only happened to people over 75 yr old, then I would guess human error mainly.
Sometimes. More to have it as a play toy than anything else. I got rid of it when the first oil crisis hit in 1973(?). Gas went from $0.30/gallon to near $1.00/gal in a short period of time, IIRC. Not a good time to own something that got 12 mpg and needed super premium to run.
But cars have come a long way since then. Back then, 7 sec 0-60 and 14 sec quarter mile times were considered fast. Nowadays, you can buy a Civic or a Kia that can almost do the same thing :P .
Saylor, on that initial UA tried shifting into neutral and "stabbed" at the start/stop button with no good effect. But, the brakes were good enough that first time to bring the car to stop, maybe even with a contribution from the grassy (slippery) median.
So, now he digs out the owners manual and discovers the 3 second rule with the start/stop PB.
"..Oh, that's why the engine wouldn't shut off.."
So he continues on his was not realizing that not only are the brakes compromised but in reality the engine/transaxle controlling ECU goes into "live-lock" wherein neither shifting into neutral nor the PB will work.
Speaking of the PB...
Does the 3 second rule apply if I'm fully stopped..? Or fully stopped and have shifted into park or neutral...?? In these latter cases does a simple depression of the PB shut down the engine..??
the more I read the accident report the worse it looks for making any sense.
I think the real story has yet to be told and may never be.
What you refuse to accept is these folks are still human, and they DO make mistakes. If it weren't so, you would never see cases of police brutality on video, where they simply lost control of their emotions.
Whether or not Saylor's Lexus had problems is a totally separate issue.
To simply refuse the possibility of human error is ANYTHING but realistic.
the more I read the accident report the worse it looks for making any sense.
I think the real story has yet to be told and may never be.
I quite agree. It again points out the fallacy of eyewitness reports.
Let's presume that the cruise control did freak out and go WOT and, by devilish co-incidence, his brake light switch was defective even before he got in the car. We know this cruise control defect has happened to other people right here on Edmunds, but not in a car with a push button ignition. And their brake switch didn't fail them.
Then, when the cruise went WOT, he actually didn't know what to do---his options were to turn off the ignition or put the car in neutral. Stepping on the brake wouldn't cut off the CC because the switch was no good.
He chose neither because he panicked and also didn't know how to do either one.
Yes... Back in 1969, the "magic" engine builder could only hope to get 1 HP per cubic inch in an engine.
Now, its almost a given in any stock engine to exceed that ratio.
Still, I miss those cars. Back then, nothing looked better than a RoadRunner, GTX, Camaro, GT500, etc.
At a minimum, he experienced the floor mat issue... maybe more, maybe not.
Even the most experienced driver can have an off day, and couple that with unexpected vehicle-based problems and you often get tragic results.
Over 50% of airline crashes, from what I understand, are due in some major part to pilot error. That doesn't mean that they were bad pilots, only that in a particular situation... made the incorrect choice, resulting in a negative outcome.
http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm
I suspect that during that time, at some point Saylor likely did think to try neutral, but it was either locked out electronically for whatever potential reason, that, as the general public, we may never know or confirm for sure, OR... due to panic and confusion, he was moving the lever, but it might have been in the manual position which does not provide for a neutral slot until pulling or pushing it over into that gate, so was never able to get it to the neutral position. If he is pulling and pushing that, in that position, it would be up and downshifting. And all the while brakes getting hotter and hotter.
IF it was the mat, he had to have had the weakest handgrip in the CHP force to not be able to reach down and pull/RIP the originating carpet tabs, by pulling the mat out of the way. Actually those tabs would not rip out, but they do hold the mat in place with a vengeance. But in a panic situation like that, surely adrenaline would make the difference in getting the damn mat outta there.
As I understand it, the mats in the car were not the correct ones for that make/model, but possibly SUV mats.
The cops already have identified the part numbers of incorrect mats back on page 2 or 3..
edit - so now on page 20 they have determined the wrong mats fit the clips and floorpan area, BUT will jam the accel pedal, which the proper mats do not.
So here we have a lot attendant that his trying to protect his job, but on the other hand, just how observant do we expect a lot guy to be? Is he expected to notice that if the mat is clipped in fine and not bunched up, whether the 250 he just vacuumed had 400 mats? I say no way. Someone at some point, didn't have a 'dirty/used' set of 350 mats and said, "here, use these, the 400 mats fit, i've done it before".
Which is what I said back about 2 months ago.
See? I didn't even have to read this report, lol ...
SCENARIO -- a 48 state clearing house is created wherein anyone reporting a UA incident in a Toyota brings their car in for testing. Each car is driven for 6 months day and night, and the owner compensated handsomely for the use of the car. At the end of the 6 months, after 600 cars were tested that had claims of UA, not one car demonstrated a UA incident in 14 million total miles of testing.
Would you then say "probably driver error?"
Yes, I have mentioned that here before and it could certainly have happened that way.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
What is the time to push and hold the starter button when the car is stopped and in Park? 3 seconds if in gear, but does anyone know the normal time? 3 seconds in that UA scene would seem like a long time, and i wonder if you woukld have to hold the button beyond the 3 seconds until the engine quit turning, which could take a looooong time if he pushed it when engine was revving near redline.
While I don't mean to sound insensitive to this guy and his poor innocent family, but gosh he sounds like a doofuss, UNLESS, it was a locked/jammed scene that really didn't didn't let him find neutral using the proper method.
Even when he had it at 25 mph on the shoulder, if i had superheated my brakes prior and nothing was working, I can tell you definitively, if that was me I would have steered that sucker sharp into the guard rail and let it drag itself along the rail till the tires were scrubbed to the rims. With any luck it would have popped a CV joint.
I am, and always have been, decidedly on the side of the fence that says this was (ultimately) driver error, even if the car did lock up on him, I know what happened would not happened to me. I would have ground the panels down to shreds before letting that sucker take control of me..
I'm not convinced that Saylor did not try to shift the Lexus into neutral. But other commenters note that the 911 operator told him to shift into neutral and he replied something to the effect that he was trying to control the car.
Looks like for a change, I might have been right.
At least I got a teaching lesson out of it. My son has it drilled into his brain that if it ever happens to him, to get the car into neutral.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.