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Comments
Other than a mis-print on the price -- $71,000 not $45,000 the following I think will temporarily INCREASE market confusion, rather than increase market differentiation:
http://www.forbes.com/2002/03/04/0304vow.html
Look at it this way, if you could get this car with a 12 cylinder engine for $45,000 you would have to at least consider it. So, don't take this article to your dealer and demand one of these babies for $45 grand.
With the car there, I finally completed the financial transaction. I got the car for $500 over invoice. The invoice numbers matched exactly the Edmunds numbers. In addition, there was an advertising fee ($200), floorplan interest ($92) and port prep ($25). He had notified me about those previously so they were not a surprise. $500 over was the number he had mentioned a while ago. I was happy with that for a factory order and did not even try to talk him down ($24,759 before tax&lic). I know that VW had some special financing rates for the GLS in January which were extended to February. I was very worried about them not being available in March. They actually lowered them in March to 0.9/2.9/3.9/4.9 for 24/36/48/60.
For the rest, the deal was without any real pressure. No questions about window etching, anti-rust proofing etc. Just a question about extended warranty for another three years for nearly $1500, which I declined at this point. I bought the car at Barber Volkswagen in Ventura, CA (Jeff Weber was the salesperson).
Rear Window defroster were disconnected and became
independent operations...Should be the same on your Audi...
Then when you open the windows and/or sunroof, you will have ventilation but not cooling.
Unless the compressor runs at all times to make the cooling capacity "instant on."
And I have not, however, noticed the seat feeling warmer in colder temps. like you said. I think that's just perception though.
I think the lemon law states that the dealer has to fail to fix a problem like 3 times, so this wouldn't qualify. It's BS that they're rebuilding it, though.
Does anybody know if you can install a remote car starter and if so, what brand would you recommend?
Thanks,
Kelly
I was very pleased to say the least. Not only did they fix the problem (no recurrance), but they performed the service in one day and did not subject me to any inconveniences for my personal transportation needs. I just wanted to share my experience so prospective buyers are not under the impression that all VW dealerships have poor service.
Also, any speculation on when an updated Passat is due? Based upon the 3.5 year update of the current car, I would guess 2005.I know I read something about it in Automobile long ago. They said that the new Passat was likely to be 1/2 size bigger to account for the next Golf/Jetta due in '04 growing up 1/2 size. I just can't remember when it is to bow.
I notice on occasion noises around the steering wheel seemingly from the telescopic/tilt adjustment lever and a snap while traveling over major expansion joints. Although this may sound a little like wishful thinking, I sometimes wonder if the car is so well screw together that there is little room for the components to expand or to move ever so slightly one way or the other. Also perception may play a part in a setting where most everything seems so solidly fitted that if any one piece is truly out of whack it stands out more so in one's mind.
I'd put up with the occasional squeak in exchange for the 100% galvanized steel body, triple sealed doors and other like details.
Check it out by following the link in the "Helpful Links" box on the left sidebar of this page.
Pat
Host
Sedans Message Board
The outside temperature does not have any effects on the settings of say level 4. The reason it feels hotter in colder days is the temperature difference, between the seat and inside air temperature.
My biggest complaint about the 99 Passat besides the cupholders is the short front seats. They could definitely be longer. I read complaints of the stiffness of the leather seats and I agree they are harder and less contoured than some other seats but I actually like the stiffness.
Am looking at trading one of my cars in and now that VW has 4/50 warranty decided to look at Jetta/Passat. I have heard rumors/stories of bad VW dealers, poor service depts, etc. but figured that was a thing of the past. I am now 3 for 3 with bad experiences - here they are:
Dealer 1
Called and asked about the cars I am interested in chatted with a sales guy who told me that he had several in stock (Jetta Wagons) and set an appointment to see them. I show up a the appointed time and am informed that salesguy is busy with someone else. I am surprised and tell the sales mgr that I had an appointment and his response is that someone else got there first so he would find someone else to help. Ok. While I am waiting I notice that the place is a total dump - out of the 50s. Go to the restroom and it is so bad I can't use it. As I am leaving the newly appointed sales guy shows up. I tell him I am here to see the Jetta Wagons. He says "Oh sorry, we only have one and it is sold. You can look at it from the outside but can't get in or drive it". I tell him what the other sales guy said, he says "he's wrong". I leave.
Dealer 2
Beautiful new facility - stunning. Get a newer sales guy that was eager and seemed to know the cars well. They have a decent selection we go for a drive. I like the car. I ask him about the service dept and loaner cars. He goes on and on about the dept and that for anything that requires more than a few hours you get a free loaner car. Great. Get back to the dealership and the sales mgr has appraised my trade and put a good number on it (realistic but good). I also ask him about the loaner - oh yes, he assures me you get a free loaner. Leave as it is late with plans to return the next afternoon and do the deal. Tell a friend about it the next day and he tells me that no, they don't give loaners as his brother has a car from this dealership and has complained about it. So, I call up the svc dept and say I need some warranty work and want to reserve a loaner - she says "Sorry, we don't have loaners but our shuttle can take you up to ten miles." I said there must be some mistake and ask for the service mgr - he too says that there are NO loaner cars and that I must have misunderstood the sales guy.
Dealer 3
Nice sales guy but doesn't no much about the cars - fine. We drive one and then go look for the options I want and there aren't any on the lot. He says he can do a search and see if there are any near and get back to me on what is avail (still looking at two diff models). He gets some info from me and then asks me to hold on as he wants his mgr to meet me - fine. Ten minutes later he and slick sales mgr walk out and we are introduced. The sales mgr then says he needs a check for at least $500. I am shocked and say for what? He says "you want to buy a car right, well our policy is that before we will search for a vehicle not on the lot we need at least a $500 deposit." I tell him that is crazy as I don't even know if I am going to get a passat or jetta and need to know what is avail. He says no matter, there policy is that they need a deposit before they "do a search". I say then we won't do business and leave. As I am leaving he tries to stop and say that there must be some misunderstanding and that he "really wants my business." Yeah right.
So, what is up? I currently own a Mercedes and a Saab and have never had a single encounter like the ones I had at VW buying them (or previous cars - another MB and several Toyotas). Is this typical for a VW store? We never even got to $ discussions and can't imagine how misleading those would be. . .
Adam
under the Thread for the 337 Golf(Under Internet
Ordering)that Host's comments are timely...
I can only apologize, on behalf of all of us that
are connected with Volkswagen.
Try expanding your search over the net and save
yourself some time...http:/vw.com has a *Dealer
Locator* that should be helpful...just put in the radius that you are prepared to travel and click..
There are Three that you can eliminate right off the top...Look for those Dealers that have an *active* site and then seek out the Internet Sales Manager or the Fleet Manager; they will be the most helpful...
At the Cincinnati Auto Show a few weeks ago, I made sure that I spent time in an Audi A4 and A6 (3.0) and a Passat GLX 4Motion. The similarities are remarkable and the price points confusing. Subsequently, I read an interview with the new top executive of VW -- who claims that the product differentiation between Audi and VW is an evolutionary process, but that it is coming. VW's will -- starting this year, in the US, at least -- begin competing somewhat with other "Classic" German cars -- most notably MB. VW prices and products are beginning a move up market, up price, up content. Audi, too, will intensify its image as a competitor with "Sporty" German cars (and, like VW, will not just set its sites on other German makers) -- most notably BMW.
But even at the auto show, the difference between the "representatives" of the two brands (Audi and VW) was striking. The Audi people talked about the product, the economy, nearby restaurants and the business side of cars. Contrast to the VW representatives, who were OK in their product knowlege, but seemed to want to let us know that while they couldn't technically sell cars at the show, that -- wink wink -- we can make a deal and then "you can come to the dealership on Monday and close it." The youthful enthusiasm of the VW representative was refreshing, but also unrefined. The mature confidence and erudition of the Audi representative was far more assuring and persuasive. I felt like I was talking to a fellow executive, rather than a salesperson.
The differences in the products was certainly there -- yet, the Passat stands out as very Audi-like. And in this country, that is the greatest similarity (I suspect if Audi brings an A3 to the US, there would be some confusion with the Golf). The door handles and the tiptronic shifter and a lot of the look and smell and feel of the cars lets you know that they (Audi and VW) are at least first cousins, and possible "twin sons (children) of different mothers" (if you pardon my rip off of a Tim Weisburg album title).
The difference in the way they "interact" with the buying public is much much further apart than their (apparently [temporarily] converging) products.
I have had my interest level in VW raised by the prospect of a Passat W8 (at almost $20,000 less than my Audi A6 4.2) -- especially in station wagon (Avant in Audi-speak) form; and, especially when compared with an A6 3.0 Avant -- at a mid to high $40,000 number.
I keep reading the experiences people are having with VW dealers, and the Audi doesn't look as expensive anymore.
But, my friend owns both a VW and an Audi dealer -- and they are very far apart from each other, here in Cincinnati -- has told me time and again that everyone who walks into the VW store buys one -- but he can get fewer than 50% of them "done" -- which is dealer talk for getting the customer financed (for regular purchase or lease). But the folks that come into the Audi store don't universally buy, but when they do getting them done is seldom a problem.
VW has been dealing with different customers -- not better, not worse -- different expectations, different experiences. I think it will be very very interesting to see $37,900 VW's all the way up to $71,000+ VW's over the next 6 - 18 months. The dealerships will have to change -- they are, by their own executive fiat (no pun intended) pushing way up market to compete with Mercedes (so they say) and in the short run blur the lines between Audi and VW.
The dealership experience will HAVE to change. The folks I know who have Mercedes, BMW's, Audi's, Jaguars and even Saab's and Volvo's will not tolerate this kind of treatment -- and $10,000 less on the price of the car will not sway them.
thought that I would say that...
I mean how many VW dealerships want to have the words spoken about Dealer 1 or Dealer 3, and even Dealer 2 above by Adam represent (guilt by association, i.e.) them?
Raising the bar, big big time will only benefit the marketplace -- perhaps VW will be able to pull off having sub $20K cars and over $70K co-marketed and sold at the same dealerships. It could happen! The newer Mercedes and BMW's (to a certain extent on the Bimmers) are, by historical standards, going down market. There is a sub $25K Mercedes as I recall, just came on the market (truth be told, you will be hard pressed to find one for $25K as they will be optioned to a higher price point).
If the lowest cost VW "becomes" $25K and the Phaeton is pushed over a 2 - 5 year time perhaps to over $80 or $90K -- the VW dealerships that survive will set higher customer expectations (and some already do, one here in Cincinnati and one in Norwood, already have very good reputations) and cause improvements across the board.
I hope you didn't think you were glad to be 57 so that you would "get to retirement" sooner.
All this stirring of the pot so to speak is good for the consumer and good for competition.
Bring it on!
Markcincinnati....Do you have any suggestions for servicing in Cincinnati? I'm a new Passat owner (living in Mason) and have been getting it serviced at Fairfield VW. What has your experience been?
the demographic of the customers for these new
products...It is a good thing...
A friend of mine purchased two VW's from this dealership and was very impressed with the treatement he received. Then he purchased an Audi from another dealership and was impressed both with the dealer and the product -- and, truth be told, from a leasing standpoint, the A4 quattro sport was actually less per month than the Passat GLX 4Motion he also looked at. And, he was able to order the Audi exactly as he wanted, the Passat was "whatever was available on the locator. We're talking about 2001 modeld cars, too.
My wife, who is not easily impressed, noted the level of service today when her check engine light came on her 2001 225HP Audi TT -- the car was taken in over the lunch hour, and ready to go by 6PM -- it was washed, the tires dressed and all cured. And, she was not put out, not at all -- other than the fact that it happened in the first place. The salesperson we have dealt with for oh at least 12 years made sure he took time out from delivering an S8 to speak to both of us.
The problem had something to do with the emission system -- it was hoses and filters and the like, not just the gas cap!
Another VW dealership, Century VW, also seems to have its act together -- they are in Loveland, another "burb" of Cincinnati. I do not know much about other VW dealers in Cincinnati, but I have heard less than flattering things about Jeff Wyler's attempt at VW -- heck, I don't even know if he still sells them.
The customer centric behavior spoils a person.
I just started car-shopping and have read the Passat discussions with great interest. I think these forum are an excellent place for all of us (current owners, future owners and even just shoppers) to share our experiences and help each other out. Thanks to all of you who have contributed both raves and rants and thanks especially for those who almost always are eager to help with a honest and frank suggestion and/or advice.
I guess I can summarise the common sentiments I read in the Passat forums - (1) "my car has quite a few reliability problems BUT I love it and it drives great" (2) "my car has served me relatively trouble-free AND I love it and it drives great". While there have been some unlucky owners who have genuinely had quality problems, many so-called-problem postings would classify as irritating annoyances rather than significant troubles, in my opinion atleast.
I test drove a 2002 Passat GLX (auto) and it handled very well. Almost all aspects were good - quality-materials in a pleasing and rich interior, excellent features in the base build and a smooth ride. Yes, the 1.8T is a bit noisy and I noticed the turbo lag. It definitely is one of the main contenders when I make my decision in a few weeks .. maybe even before the 0.9%financing (12 and 24 months) runs out at the end of this month :-)
I also test drove the Acura 3.2 TL. I found the steering a "bit tight" and my head hit the roof even if I moved forward a bit to open the glove compartment. (BTW, I am 6'0'' tall). Definitely ruled out on that factor alone. All the seats were very comfortable though.
I drove the Honda Accord and while I cannot complain much about the car (more spacious than Passat, good handling, good ergonomics) I cannot rave much about it either. It will serve its purpose and will reliably drive you from point A to B.
I drove the Nissan Altima 3.5SE and was impressed most of all with the space inside the cabin. It is huge ! The engine is also very powerful and I liked the ride though I must add that the worksmanship and the quality of the interiors was sub-par.
As I mentioned, I am a 6-footer and I must add that I cannot sit on the back seats without my head hitting the roof on the Passat. But then, when I am in my Passat, I would not let anyone relegate me to the back seat too ;-). So that is OK.
I will adding a couple of more postings with request for some advice but thought I would start off by sharing my test drive experiences.
I am sure it will be an interesting few weeks till decision-time.
-vb
I just posted my first message (3044) and I thought I will seek some advice from the many VW owners.
I have read the many stories - unfortunately, more bad than good - about the dealer experiences and have concluded that the dealer plays an important role in the car-buying and -owning experience.
About 5-6 dealers are within 10-12 miles of my place in Northern NJ.
Jack Daniels in Fairlawn, NJ
Joe Heidt in Upper Saddle River, NJ
Gensinger Motors in Clifton, NJ
Three County VW in Lyndhurst, NJ
East Coast VW in Englewood Cliffs, NJ
I would appreciate is someone could recommend or warn me of their experiences with these dealers in the North NJ region. I would also greatly appreciate if someone would like to recommend or warn me of other dealers say in central and south NJ.
Thank you very much in advance.
-vb
But anyway, I reccommend Jack Daniels if you want to get the VW, and talk with Luis Fernandez and tell him Ali sent you.
Thanks
vbi4
Maybe I slouch more than you but I fit fine in the back of the Passat (6’3”). I also found the TL very bad for head room. I had to lean my head where the sun roof was. Unless you’re the size of an NBA star this really doesn’t cut it in a modern car.
Thanks
So went up to Crestmont and test drove the exact car I wanted. They had it on the lot, the guy tossed me the keys and told me not to hurry back.
..but due my desire to buy a car from the most local dealer, I went back to Gensinger with check in hand. What a-holes. Arrogant bastards.
To make a long story short, I bought my Passat from Crestmont -- the exact car I wanted, which Gensinger did not have and want and extra $250 to trade for it -- and have had a great experience since. Picked the car up 1 1/2 days later. Go talk to Bob Bauch, great salesman.
Just my two cents.
Adam.
Sports...If you email me tomorrow, or call I will
give you the name of the General Manager...Good
man...www.vwguild.com