Volkswagen Passat 2005 and earlier

L8_ApexL8_Apex Member Posts: 187
Welcome to the continuation of the VW Passat -
Part VII
topic. Those of you joining us from that
topic are welcome to continue your discussion.

If you're new to this topic, you may want to
follow the above link for additional archived


Sedans Host


  • neverretailneverretail Member Posts: 3
    I expect my local dealer in Tennessee to laugh at my offer tomorrow based on the collective wisdom I garnered from reading each of the 632 posts in Passat-Part VII. But I'll still make it all the same and we'll see. I'd be willing to drive a state or two away to purchase a GLX with 4M and Tiptronic for the kind of reasonable over invoice prices mentioned in many of the posts.

    I bought (and likely overpaid) for an A6 4.2 several months ago at this local dealer but fully expect him to turn his nose up at the cash deal I'll offer tomorrow. Based on what I've read, $1000 over invoice should be plenty to get this deal done but he's asking for more than $3000 over invoice. $30000 plus tax should be more than enough to get this car, no??

    I know how to walk away - but where to? Anybody know a dealer a little hungrier within a few hundred miles of east TN??

    BTW, I love the Passat. Drives like the worthy younger sister to our A6. I feel great about the value but would be happier with a longer warranty.


  • srayersrayer Member Posts: 11
    I had recently posted a link to the 2001.5
    Passat Website a few weeks ago. At that
    time it was only available in German. It
    appears VW has released the site in English
    as well. Enjoy:
  • larrylee1larrylee1 Member Posts: 1
    This is my first post on anything. I am about to purchase a '98 Passat wagon, 4 cyl.,21K miles, $16,500 from a private owner. My one concern, after driving, is that the clutch engagement is very high relative to other standard shift vehicles that I drive. I am aware that it is a hydraulicly actuated clutch, and therefore not adjustable. My concern is making a determination as to whether this is normal or clutch is worn. I would appreciate any and all input relative to the clutch and the price. Thanks for any useful comments.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    hmmm.. I've had mine for over a year so it's hard to say anything for sure. I recall needing some time to adjust to the clutch when I first got it, but a lot of that was getting used to revving the Turbo engine a bit higher then I was used to to get a smooth get-a-way.

    I would say that it sounds pretty normal, but have your mechanic check it just to be sure.
  • ajeetajeet Member Posts: 11

    I have narrowed down my car choice to 2001 VW Passat GLS V4 4-Dr Sedan with Tiptronic Auto Transmission and 4MOTION - Blue Anthracite/Black Velour. I do NOT want any other packages on the car. I am sticking to my price of $25,063 + $525 dest charge. Anyone recently bought this car around my estimated cost ? Please let me know !

    Also, I am having LOT of difficulty in locating such a car. Most of the Passats come loaded with some package or the other !! A VW dealer told me that the current 2001 Passat's body-style is no longer in production and hence they cannot factory-order it for me!! A second body style is being added to the VW production line-up.

    Is this true ? Are there any InterNet links that I might look up to find more on this ?

    Thanks in advance !
  • portlandpassatportlandpassat Member Posts: 2
    V.W. is giving the Passat a facelift for 2001. Check out the article at
    This may explain your difficulty in locating the vehicle you want. I had to settle for purchasing a '99 Passat I found via a broker. Paid 21,500 for a 1.8T w/tip, luxury pkg., leather and 4K miles.

    Good Luck!
  • gbobaygbobay Member Posts: 1
    I've been trying to find out if Passat is pre-wired for the CD Changer and have gotten conflicting views. I've searched in the trunk and without dismantling anything I can't find the cable. However I've gone to sights such as which indicates the car should be pre-wired. I've also called my service station which says it is not and the cable is $140.00.

    Any clues?????


  • dl7265dl7265 Member Posts: 1,381
    cool site, where can i get my v6 tdi 4 motion with 6 speed,. lol
  • neurotic1neurotic1 Member Posts: 3
    I bought a 2001 GLS about a month ago and have noticed several rattles/buzzes in the cabin area. I am guessing they might be a typical VW thing other owners have experienced.

    One of them is in the front right dash area....I think it is the gloovebox door, but I'm not sure. Any ideas?

    The other rattle is somewhere in the rear of the cabin. I have no idea what is shaking over bumps. I have poked around and don't see anything that looks like it could make the noise. Are there many components for the sunroof up in the headliner that are likely to shake? Any suggestions?

    What is the best way to get these identified and fixed by a dealer? Do dealers create more problems by ripping stuff up to look for loose stuff? Are rattles covered under warranty since it is not a mechanical defect, but just an annoyance?

  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    I solved a persistant and annoying center "dash" rattle by removing about three dollars worth of pennies form my ash tray. :-)

    At 31k miles, my Passat is still rattle free. I do get the odd groan on very cold mornings though.
  • CooperCooper Member Posts: 55
    I, too, get the odd groan on very cold mornings with my '97 Passat. My car stays outside, and I get that sound from the passanger-side interior of the car on the days that I carpool to work with my wife.

    Aside from that, 107,000 trouble-free miles on my car, and 62,000 trouble-free miles on my wife's Passat.
  • jay82174jay82174 Member Posts: 5
    I'm looking at buying a new Passat GLX 4 motion and I'm wondering if anyone can tell me the best deal posted for this car? Looks like the dealr makes way too much cash on this car and I've heard that most VW dealers are stingy!!!
    MSRP for the car I'm looking at is 30,900. Any help is greatly appreciated.
  • zup1zup1 Member Posts: 4
    I just went and test drove a 2001 GLX last night and the salesman made it a point to show me that the car was pre wired for a CD changer in the trunk. On the car he showed me it was behind a black flap on the left hand side of the trunk. The wires where right there along with a place to put the changer. Hope this helps.

  • zup1zup1 Member Posts: 4
    The best I have been able to do to date is 700 over invoice plus a 200 dealer fee. I managed to get this over the phone so i figure once I am there I will get 700 over invoice plus 50 for the dealer fee, this is my ideal price, it works out to just under 3% over invoice on a 2001 GLX with auto. Anyone car to comment on this deal, it sound OK to me, I prefer to pay no more than 500 over invoice, but thes car still seem to be selling very well and I love it.

  • chriszerochriszero Member Posts: 1
    I noticed that this year, the Audi A4 has upped the output of their 1.8T from 150hp to 170hp, while the Passat remains at 150hp. Does anyone know how Audi accomplished this? Would it be possible to take a Passat 1.8T and easily upgrade it to make 170hp in the same fashion? Do you think Audi is sacrificing some reliability by upping the turbonium content? ;)

    Thanks, -Chris
  • busanbusan Member Posts: 12
    2000 models. I was able to pick one up at $890 UNDER invoice price. It was a 2000 V6 GLS with 4Motion and Tiptronic. Everything else standard.

    It's an option and it's one I jumped all over.

    Best of luck to you
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    Check out and for more info then you would ever want to read on "chipping" the turbo Passat for more HP.
  • audiandpassataudiandpassat Member Posts: 4
    Just got my Silver / Grey 2001 GLX 4M for about $150 over invoice. There IS a 2% holdback for these cars as explained elsewhere in this site. Dealer made a little bit of money and I got a great car at a great price. Knowing about the holdback helps you counter the whining that the dealer isn't making any money. Being in a locality where there is competition between dealers really helps.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    am only more confused. The Passat-Plus. When does it come out, what engine/HP will it have, is the HP from a base engine or is it turbo'ed, where did you read about it, any photos, etc.

    How will it compare in performance and cost to one of the A6 models (2.7T or 4.2)?

    Is 4-motion in VW-speak the same as Quattro in Audi-speak?
  • neverretailneverretail Member Posts: 3
    Not sure about the Passat Plus, but Audi Quattro equals VW 4Motion. Same technology, same shift lever, etc.
  • vettesettervettesetter Member Posts: 2
    To audiandpassat....where did u get that $150 over invoice deal? Did the dealer have alot of cars in stock? Did u trade anything and what was the 'dealer service' fee?

    Thanks....good luck with ur new Passat, I'm going out this weekend to find a deal on a silver/black/GLX if I can find one in South Florida before the supply dries up, I can't wait for March, I need to get a replacement car now.

    BTW to the question about the 2001.5 version....VW factory guy (I believe a good source) said new cars will be shown at Detroit in January, a few cars will be delivered to dealers in Feb and more in March. Factory has just about ended production of current version and is tooling up for new one. He expects a month or two of NO Passats except those sitting on dealer floors. I was in Louisville recently where there were more Passats than you knew what to do with them. A rare silver/gray was at a dealer in Indiana just over the river ready for someone to take home.

  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    First of all...*busan*, you know perfectly well that
    you bought a *mutant* and that there was $1000
    Dealer Incentive program that made your *deal*
    possible. Please do not insinuate that what you
    got; everyone will get...that is not fair to the
    Town Hall member.

    audiandpassat...I hope that there is another VW
    Dealer in your area that can service your New
    Silver Passat GLX 4MO, because this guy is probably
    going to be out of business before you read this post. I would not sell this car to my mistress
    for that money; that is not to say that I have one
    but you get the idea... A Silver/Grey, 4MO, GLX
    for $150 over? Good for you... As to your *holdback* ploy... This sophisticated site, basically states...*don't even go there*, but you
    showed someone that you knew better...every dealer
    will negotiate *holdback*...You, SIR, are a master
    negotiator, and I beg you to tell us all how you did it...what skills did you employ that we are
    unaware of?, what power do you posess that turns
    normally sane people into fools & pushovers?
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    You certainly are confused...Passat Plus has a W8,
    280bhp engine, with 4MO standard and will cost less than it's Audi counterpart...that is the
    point...these cars stair step...see a post from
    Passat Part VII
  • snurplesnurple Member Posts: 130
    VWGUILD, you are a dealer. I suspect that this influences the wonderful "advice" that you sprinkle throughout this forum--a forum specifically designed (at least in part) to educate average consumers about all of the crafty tactics of dealers.

    Holdback does matter because holdback is part of your (oftentimes substantial) profit margin--and therefore fair game in any negotiation.

    You know better than anyone that values for "new 2000s" (that are already ONE YEAR OLD) and the new 2001s are starting to fall because of the redesigned Passat 2001.5s that will be coming at some point next year. Cars have a limited lifecycle--especially when automakers keep on redesigning new models to entice new buyers. Autos have a limited shelf life.

    Sorry to sound so snippy, but I hope that people realize that dealers, in some cases, frequent these sites to learn how to design increasingly sophisticated scams...
  • josephf1josephf1 Member Posts: 1
    I have been looking for a new car and have researched most models. I have had toyotas for years ad have been happy but I find myself wanting a passat V6. Looking at the postings here I am completely scared about what I read. The dealers sound terrible and the car sounds very troublesome. If you go to the Honda postings you see that people are concerned with minor stuff like should they get a 2000 or 2001, does the spoiler look cool, or stuff like what to do about the water that drips in the window while they smoke. On this VW site there is alot of stuff that sounds BAD, like I don't have the time for. The car completely impresses me on the test drive but what about after the honeymoon? Will I be posting my horror story? Do the people with good experiences just not post on this site or are there non out there? Any insightwould help.
  • audiandpassataudiandpassat Member Posts: 4

    If I had wandered onto your lot during my shopping, my special discernment powers would have told me to get off your lot quickly. I wouldn't have trusted you to work with me. I've read dozens of your posts and though you many times provide great factual information, you, sir, are a dealer's dealer, a salesman's salesman. I'm not surprised you wouldn't sell a car at a great price to your mistress or anyone else. Why is it that you are spending so much of your time guarding the Passat shopping flock anyway?? Business slow? Or does VW pay you for your time to make sure buyers don't get too many ideas about how to negotiate in their best interests? A wolf in sheep’s clothing. You and many of your comments don’t really fit what I understand to be the purpose of this forum. Your intentions are easy to me to read . . . but then again I have supernatural powers as you have rightly deduced.

    I got a good deal because I was persistent, did my homework and used some basic negotiating strategies to my advantage - like walking away from a deal I was not yet satisfied with. I've got too much appreciation and respect for the dealer who made this deal for me to tell everyone where the deal was given. Perhaps he *would* go out of business if he sold every car for this amount. I simply made the best deal I could for me - and he did make the $150 plus 2% for a few hours of working with me. He did not seem to be drugged or under unusual coercion. He didn’t *have* to sell me the car for that price, so I have to assume, sir, that he made out just fine and is not endangering his business.

    I took the time to post the information about the holdback and my deal to encourage others to not fall for dealer rhetoric and whining (like they likely hear on your lot) that they "can't" make a deal.


    Not sure how many posts you’ve read to come to your conclusion. There are a lot of really satisfied Passat owners who haven’t had problem one with their cars. For example, look back at Passat - Part VII. Now that I have my car, I can’t imagine why I would come back to this forum again if I have good experience with my car. It is much more likely that the few who have problems come to this site to complain. I’m glad they let us know of their troubles as it helps us know what to look for, but it cannot be said that their experience is representative of the entire population of Passat owners.

    My wife was Toyota’s most loyal customer until she test-drove the Camry, Avalon and Passat back to back to back. It wasn’t even close. The Passat drive is a much more satisfying experience and it seems like a much better value. Can’t tell you yet that we will have years of trouble-free driving like we’ve had with our Toyotas, but we both love the Passat and were willing to take the risk.

    Don’t let VWGUILD’s attitude scare you off of the car. I think there are some nice folks at dealerships. They just want you to pay as much for the car as you will let them get away with. That’s their business. Good luck.
  • justinjustin Member Posts: 1,918
    usually have had great SALES exp - poor service dept experience. I did not care too much about the service side though, as I only ever needed it for oil changes. I have heard from real drivers (friends) only good things about the Passat. None of them have the V6 anymore, but two friends still have the turbo. Love the cars - NEVER a problem. I had a 99 Jetta VR6 - no probs either. I also owned a 97 Civic and 96 Integra.....nothing but BIG problems the entire time.
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    32k+ trouble-free miles on my '99 GLS Turbo (manual)!
  • zup1zup1 Member Posts: 4

    I just bought my Passat yesterday. I opted to buy it in Central Florida, because the dealers in Miami are very Greedy. A firend who works in a car dealer called some friends for me and told me what a fair offe for the car was. He recomened 500 over invoice. the dealers in Miami laughed at me. In fact the sales manager at Esserman VW called me rediculous. I also has my secritary call the dealership before i got there and ask if they had the car on the lot, they said yes. When I got there the car was no where to be found, and in fact they said it would take a week to get. The best price I got in Miami was 3% over invoice plus a 200 dollar dealer fee.
    It is going to cost me 35 dollars for a train ticket and 10 dollars for a cab in order to pick up the car. The money I saved is going to make this trip more than worth it, and the dealers were much nicer and more acomidating than the Miami dealer.

  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    You will enjoy the ride back to Miami. It's not such a bad idea to buy a car like you're buying. The drive back to Miami will be very pleasant and you'll enjoy finding out about the car. If possible, make the drive at night. The 2001 Passat's have an awesome interior light scene. The color is hypnotizing (spelling ?) as well.

    Also, when I lived in Miami, I think there was a VW dealer in Ft. Laud. somewhere. I think the name was Gunther VW/Mazda. I bought several Mazdas from them and always had good luck. I'm almost positive they sold VWs but I'm not sure. You might want to try them for servicing, etc.


  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    First of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my post regarding your recent
    purchase. Contained in that response you will find one of the answers to your question...
    "Why is it that you are spending so much of your time guarding the Passat shopping flock anyway?"
    Please take note...that is a direct quote...

    Here is another direct quote from post #18 of #31,
    "Just got my Silver/Grey 2001 GLX 4M for about $150 over invoice."

    And then there is this direct quote..."I simply made the best deal I could for me - and he did make the $150 plus 2% for a few hours of working with me."

    I detect here a small inconsistency...There is a
    slight difference between the $150 that you said
    you paid and the $731.06 that you really paid. Hard invoice on a GLX 4MO is $29,053 including
    $525 Destination...2% over is $581.06 + $150...
    well, you get the picture, and I hope everyone else does as well. I must say that if you paid
    $731.06 over on this car you got a great deal, but
    you made a statement that was inaccurate, and that is why I take the time to make these posts.

    Getting a new car should be a wonderful, happy
    experience; for most, it is the 2nd most single
    most expensive investment a person makes, and by
    making even one person believe that they can do
    something that they cannot do sets them on a course that can only lead to a frustrating, time
    consuming odyssey that results in something that is certainly less than fun.

    Going back to the beginning of your post...If you
    had "wandered onto my lot" you would have never
    met me. I am the Internet Sales Manager, and do
    not "take ups".`If you went to my website, you
    would find there my entire inventory...all priced
    basically in accordance with Edmunds *TMV*. True,
    there are variances, but they are both more and
    LESS, depending upon availability.

    As to my intentions, they are really quite simple... to provide, as best I can, information
    that is clear, concise, and provide
    advice that is is sound and practical...and finally to protect people from information or
    statements of fact that are untrue.

    I participate here without the cloak of anonymity,
    and I believe that, for the most part, I have responded to requests for assistance in a timely
    and professional manner, whether that be on the phone or email or fax.

    The internet provides a forum for a multitude of voices, and for the most part without prejudice,
    but with that freedom also comes responsibility...
    I believe that I participate here in a responsible way...I hope that I am not scaring anyone by being candid and forthright.
  • busanbusan Member Posts: 12
    I did forget about the $1K dealer let's revise.

    $25,090 Invoice Price
    $ 1,000 Holdback
    $24,090 Adjusted Invoice Price
    $24,190 Purchase Price
    $ 100 Over invoice purchase price
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    DH...If I remember two got a GLS,
    4MO, no roof, no wheels, and cloth. Invoice on that is $24,770 plus $117 for Port Prep, and
    Destination $525. = $25,412. You paid $24,190...or $1222 back of invoice. And now that I think about it, the Dealer Incentives did not apply to 4MO.

    Holdback is 3% of MSRP...$806.25 Destination not included.

    Dennis, I've said it before, you got a great deal on this very unusual Passat. And you said it yourself... you took what was in the showroom.
    Nothing special...They took a real loss on this car, as you can see, secondary to bad ordering, and I am sure that whoever ordered it got an earful from the Owner, but you two have the Passat
    that works for you and that is the most important part...PS
  • pearlscalespearlscales Member Posts: 1
    josephf1 couldn't have expressed my reservations better than he did in Response #25!! Seems like there's a fear factor in buying a VW, even thought the test drive's so satisfying. I had a 1990 Corrado and swore off VW's because of the unroadworthy and very expensive tires it came with that VW wouldn't accept any responsibility for. Lots of dollars in dealing with that problem. I'm torn between the GLX with 5-speed and the Maxima 20th Anniversary edition with 5-speed and I want to come down on the Passat side. But then there's the likelihood of trouble- freedom on the Maxima side! Any more help - no dealers please!!!!!
  • audiandpassataudiandpassat Member Posts: 4
    Sorry, you didn't understand my comment about
    making "$150 plus 2%." I was referring to what I
    had been led to believe was the 2% holdback. Just
    above you said it was 3%. Whatever. I just know
    that the dealer acknowledged that there was a
    holdback when I included it in our conversation as
    to how much money the dealer was making on our

    I know I paid only $150 over the invoice because I
    saw the invoice. There was no "dealer fee" added.
    I am again taking the time to respond to your post
    because you are inaccurately correcting me. I hope
    you and everyone else gets the picture.

    I agree that $700 or $800 over invoice would have
    been a good deal. I just got a great deal. The
    dealer did have a lot of Passats in stock and it
    was near the end of the month and the dealer knew
    I was going to buy a car within 24 hours. It was
    just a matter of from whom. I gather that within a region dealers are very competitive and don't want a rival getting a sale. I presume allotments of new cars the next month depend on sales the previous month. Maybe I got a dealer in exactly the right situation for a savvy buyer. I'm not sure how or why I got such a good deal and don't mean to imply that everyone could end up with as good. But I took time to post it to let others know that they should try taking a fairly aggressive negotiating stance.

    I must say your tone has been quite moderated from
    your first sneering, inflammatory comments to me.
    That's nice and I assume that will work better for
    you in the long run. Maybe you should refrain
    from posting here when you've had too much coffee - *especially* if you only do your business through the internet.

    So please just give me credit for negotiating
    aggressively and quote me correctly. Once you do,
    I can forever stop checking this site and go out and have fun in my new Passat! My only intention in being here in the first place was to pass the word that great deals are possible. Have a nice and polite day.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Would not want to do any thing to stand in the way
    of your enjoyment of your new Passat. I had just
    returned from Volkswagen de Mexico, in Puebla at
    around 3:00AM; so a good nights sleep would
    probably been a better use of time. I any event
    enjoy your new ride...
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Let me also say that I am sorry that I let my
    pride get in the way...At VW, Customer Loyalty
    and Value are the cornerstones of what we do everyday. For one of our dealers to treat our
    Flagship Product like distress mechandise is appalling.
    After our more extended exchanges it seems that
    you are a reasonable and thoughtful individual, and that if you say that is the deal you got, then
    I believe that is the deal you got. But no wonder
    he had a lot of Passats on the ground...Out here
    we cannot get enough of them, and thus it is
    very hard to comprehend giving them away. In
    addition, that policy takes away all Value.

    As I mentioned last night, there has to be a fair amount of oneupmanship being posted and that
    really does set the stage for customer disappointment when that individual can't replicate the deal that they read one
    wins...unless, of course, they find out where you
    got yours...

    So, once again, drive and enjoy...I will attempt
    to be a little less enthusiastic in my responses
    in the future, keeping in mind that as hard as some of us work to create a more professional,
    value oriented environment, that there are still
    a number of dealers who believe it is business as
    usual. Making up what they lost on your deal by
    trying to bury someone else...sad.

    Take care...PS
  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    No problems yet with my 2001 Passat (5000 miles). Today I had my wife take the car for the 5000 service and what a pleasure. She was out in 1 and 1/2 hours....and on a Saturday too. The Saturday service is a major plus for us...we work all week and would have to take a day off for the service. We also live about 1.5 hours from the dealer.

    We also drove Nissan Max., Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, and numerous other brands. After driving all, we came back to the Passat wagon. At this point, and I stress at this point, the car is GREAT! Probably the best car I've (and my wife) owned (although I'm a truck man). The bottom line: my wife loves it.

    By-the-way,,,,,,the staff at VW are outstanding so far. Good luck.

  • jed1894jed1894 Member Posts: 337
    Oh yea.....if you can, get the hauls A#%. It will smoke my V8 truck. The power is really remarkable.

  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    Thanks for clearing part of my confusion. It appears that this Passat-Plus may be a great way to buy an A6 w/o the A6 price. And, 280 Hp will be more than sufficient, better than a 2.7 turbo. Maybe the interiors won't be as snazzy as Audi, but won't the cars be virtually the same except for price? Also, are there more VW repair shops than Audi, or am I blowing smoke to myself?

  • audiandpassataudiandpassat Member Posts: 4
    Apology accepted. That jet lag can be heck.

    I understand your sensitivity about oneupsmanship on this site, but bragging had nothing to do with why I wrote about my deal. More to help others know that they can negotiate successfully. It's a matter of helping each other, no?

    Now that we've made up, I'm going to keep my promise about doing something else on the internet in the future rather than checking in on Passat VIII. Good luck all.
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    This car, which we will see mid to late summer
    will be the first in a series of stair step
    products from VW/Audi and Porsche...The Passat
    Plus will be first then the Porsche built SUV that
    we will share and finally the D1 Varient. If you go to archives for Oct./Nov
    1999, there is an interview with Herr Neumann from
    the Frankfurt trade show...pretty interesting
    stuff...then check out *timeline* at the same site. No smoke...just better value...
  • rickroverrickrover Member Posts: 601
    I haven't had a problem with my 2000 GLS 1.8t in 10k miles. A freind at work has a 99 Passat GLX with 40k that hasn't had any problems either. Another guy at work has a mid 80's Jetta with over 300k miles - I doubt that it's been trouble free in all those miles but I can tell you it's still on the road, I parked next to it the other day.

    It will be interesting to see if VW can pull off this migration up-market with the Passat plus and D1.
  • snurplesnurple Member Posts: 130
    Have you thought of switching over to selling Saturns? That way, you wouldn't have to deal with all of the nogotiating and haggling and tension.

    Saturn has done pretty well (via their no-haggle pricing) at overcharging people who don't mind paying more for that "feel-good feeling" that you claim the act of buying a car should be all about.

    Unfortunately for most people, BUYING a car isn't much fun at all--DRIVING a new car can be--but actually walking into dealer after dealer to find both a fair deal and a pleasent salesman is a difficult and often lengthy process. That, precisely, is why forums like these exist--for people to share their stories and exchange information.

    Well, why don't you join in. Perhaps you could share your side of the story regarding the interest-rate padding scam that was just discussed on 20/20 on Friday. Is it true, as 20/20 and the New York Times claim, that dealers consistently bump-up the interest rates they get back from the bank and pocket additional profits? (i.e., Dealer Dan says to an hopeful customer: "The best the bank can do given your relatively poor credit is 13.5%"--when in fact the bank actually came back with 10.5% and the dealer just added a 3% interest rate markup!)

    If you are an honest, upstanding dealer, I think that all of the consumers at this site would appreciate your insight into how to avoid the various scams that other dealers employ. I suspect that this would probably be much more helpful for us than what you appear to be saying in your last few posts--which is basically: "Don't go into a dealer with any hope of getting a great deal."
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Your second *snippy* response in the last few days
    oh well...I am sorry that the 20/20 piece and
    that of the Times has come to you so late...I believe that practically every major forum has
    advised that the customer arrange their own financing before going out to buy a car...not unlike getting a pre-approved mortgage. This sane
    advice, pretty logical too, helps the less disciplined not to look beyond their means. I have already addressed this issue when I stated
    a few posts back, that practically every customer
    I have comes in with a loan already approved. This is generally through their business related
    credit union or a FCU/Bank. Or they are *one pays* personal check, etc. I also mentioned that if Volkswagen Credit is offering a better rate; I
    will give them the opportunity to take advantage
    of same. The 2000 Buildout rates etc., that were
    offered during August & Sept. were coupled with
    Incentive cash to the dealer, HOWEVER, the customer could only avail themselves of one or the other; not both. A customer either got the rate 3.9% for 24mos, for example or an additional
    $1000 discount from the dealer...whichever the
    customer found more favorable to their situation.

    Have you every seen an add for companies that say
    *rent to own*? If will find there the
    folks that are the most typical *victims* of this practice...they are also the the folks that pay 19%-21% for their credit cards, they probably
    have a *repo* on their credit report or collection, collection, collection, collection, collection, collection, discharged, collection.
    Like everything in a free market society, an
    individual pays for services rendered, and this
    is one of the fees that the less responsible
    among us pay.

    On the other hand, their are those who have been
    responsible with their purchases, paid their bills
    on time, have a little money in the bank, and a
    computer in the den, and KNOW what rates they
    are entitled to. Almost catagorically, every
    dealer will roll a car based on an *either or*...
    short for either our rate or yours. If a customer
    can get a better rate, then, that is honored...if
    not; the either prevails. Automoblie Dealers
    work very hard creating relationships with lenders;
    that work allows them to get loans approved for
    people that other wise couldn't finance a ham
    sandwich...and for this, the dealer can elect to
    compensate itself for that influence and effort.
    To be *PC*..."those with less than perfect credit" pay more...always have and always will...
    no one in this country is rewarded for being

    Finally, as reluctant as I am to even acknowledge
    your first and last...let me suggest that you go
    to my site...I believe that it is possible to
    provide a customer with a fair hassles,
    no haggling, no back and forth to a Manager...I are one, and to have a great experience. Exactly
    what you are suggesting in your Paragraph #3. If the Internet Prices posted there are not enough
    the customer can go elsewhere and go into the
    trenches...and rid themselves of the great experience part, as well as the no hassle, no
  • snurplesnurple Member Posts: 130
    I've always considered my comments to be the first not the second.

    VWGuild: I seem to disagree with one of your core beliefs--I do not think that the auto industry should prey on the weak, even if we do live in a "free market." Your defense of the usury practiced in these instances by your industry (in collusion with the banks) is a classic attempt to "blame the victim." Of course the buyer should beware, but that doesn't excuse the deception.

    The Edmund's True Market Value often exceeds the prices from other internet buying sites because it takes into account what some people have *overpaid* for a particular model. Those who want a good deal should use the TMV as one of their many references, but they also should also shop around, pitting dealer against dealer.

    By all means, go check out Mr. VWGuild's site, but don't assume it's a good deal... After all, the bricks and mortar dealer that employs him wouldn't want his internet prices to undercut their lot pricing by too much--or else people would think that the lot was charging way too much.

    I would think it much more effective to shop an internet site bid around to several dealers and see who wants to do business.

    Can't wait for the 2001.5 Passat! In case you forgot what bb this was... ;-)
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    Unless I need to get a new Prescription the word
    there is *Snippy*. And according to Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary...USURY is interest in excess of a legal rate...

    And, sir, I do not equate *the weak* with the
    irresponsible. And I do not know who the *victims
    are that are being blamed*, nor for what...
  • crackers1crackers1 Member Posts: 2
    I would like to put a cd changer in my 2K passat it has a monsoon radio system with no cd ; however the radio has a cd select button. It appears that it is already wired into the trunk.Can anyone help?
  • vwguildvwguild Member Posts: 1,620
    You can go to Circuit City or your local VW
    Dealer, or you can order direct from VW.COM
    under accessories
  • crackers1crackers1 Member Posts: 2
    want to do it myself(cheap) Is it hard? I think I just need the adapter and the changer am I right?
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