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Comments
1. Are there any stats. on the cost of maintaining/repairing the V6 (vs. the 4 cylinder)? One post I read suggested that many V6 owners would not buy the car again. What do people think?
2. Are dealers really more ready to deal at the end of the month? What about in early December (close to the year end)? Do people think the release of the face-lifted Passat in '01 will lower the price on '01 models (including the V6 wagon)? Will different sized engines be offered in the 2001.5?
3. If a dealer doesn't have the model I want on the lot (for example, a blue, automatic GLS V6 wagon w/ no other extras), should I expect to pay a higher or lower price for ordering the car? What's the likely price difference? How long should I expect to wait for the car? Does the dealer have to order the car from VW?
4. Trade-ins. Edmunds suggests separating the purchase of the new car from the trade-in (which makes sense) and it suggests shopping your trade-in. Will dealers only "buy" your old car if you buy their new car (that is, as a trade-in)? If so, how does shopping your trade-in around really help, as the dealer who gives you the best trade-in may not give you the best buy on your new car? If you go to the dealer who gives you the best trade-in, and your old car's not worth terribly much, aren't you letting the tail wag the dog?
5. Bluebook vs. TMV Used Vehicle. The Kelly Blue Book web site gave $400-$550 for an average to good condition '90 Fox w/ 78,000 miles (my wife's car), but Edmunds gave over $1500 for a trade-in. Does anyone know why such a huge disparity, and which price I should look to in my bargaining?
Thanks for all your help.
As for trade in..... try NADA. I think the web site is nadaguides.com (not sure). The way I have fiqured my last four trades is averaging the three (KBB, Edmunds, and NADA). So far, NADA has been the closest for me.
Good luck
JOhn
#2
[Edmunds front page has an article on the culture of car sales--it's VERY revealing.]
Dealers are always ready to deal if you bring in competitive bids. They are especially ready to deal at the end of the month since they are trying to reach quotas (per salesman or per dealership) and are hoping to land some additional incentive money. Early December might not be the best time because people are buying cars as holiday gifts (I know that I usually buy a dozen or so for my family and friends!).
The release of any new model (in this case the modified 2001.5 Passat--see vwvortex.com front page for an article detailing minor and major changes) will cause previous models to drop in value.
#3
VW doesn't have a "factory order" system. A specific # of cars are allotted to dealers based on past sales. Dealers can choose a specific model based on a customer request from the U.S. "holding pen." In this case, the price should be lower since they are getting the entire holdback $--and the car is sold as soon as it is delivered, allowing the dealer to get another one quickly. Dealers can "trade" amongst themselves for models if their customer wants something they don't have. Even though it may seem counter-intuitive, in these cases dealers are benefiting from your specific request--don't let anyone charge you extra for a "special order." With the new 2001.5 model coming early next year, specific 2001s will become more difficult to find. The dealer will want to make you think their scarcity increases their value, when in fact their obsolecense decreases their value.
When ordering a car, any deposit that they require should be paid with a credit card--that way you can dispute it later if they try to dick you around. You should not have to wait long for an order--and the dealer should give you a fairly specific date. If you sense that one dealer cannot fulfill your request, take your business elsewhere.
<<I know that I usually buy a dozen or so for my family and friends!>>
I'll be waiting breathlessly peeking out the window christmas morn!!!
;^}
3,500+ miles in 8 weeks in my 2001 4MO sedan and I'm still thrilled. OK, I drove home in a blizzard Friday night and I was REALLY thrilled. All this grinning is causing me wrinkles - anyone got anything for that??
wait till you see the New VW Colorado at the 2002
show in Detroit...SUV built by Porsche @ Wolfsburg
for both VW & Porsche customers...VW gets 80% &
Porsche gets 20%...W12 reportedly available with
4Mo & ESP ....ENJOY!!! PS
of the real important items will be at the Detroit
show in January...this has been VWs M/O for some
time now...the only variance was with the New Beetle in '98...
How does this interact with a custom order?
I want a Black 2000 GLS Manual, beige Leather, In-dash CD. Thinking of adding the sunroof depending on how low I can get the price.
Based on what I've seen here I'm thinking invoice + $3-500. How can I get that lower. I'd be willing to wait until Jan-Feb if that would give me more bargaining power b/c the 2001.5 is getting closer.
BUT
At this point, you may have difficulty finding a NEW 2000 (w/o 1000's of miles) in any specific configuration. Your dream of a Black GLS, manual w/leather (in-dash CD is a dealer installed option) may be tough to track down. You can call around to every dealer within 100 miles and see what you can find in the way of ANY 2000s. Bear in mind that the more specific your request, the more difficult it is to bargain. If they know that you have your heart set on one type, it will be difficult for you to "take that car off their hands that they haven't been able to unload on anyone." Tell them you don't really want Black, but then take it if they offer a GREAT price.
Wait until the week after Christmas or until late January. You'll be able to pick up a 2001 for a song (or if you have horrible voice, for a song + $500):)
Is there a way to integrate the steering wheel remote controls with a third party (e.g., Blaupunkt) Receiver?
If not, is there a way to remove the remote controls that doesn't look shoddy?
From what I've seen sounds like I should just go with the VW supplied panasonic for $300.
I've only been to Jim Ellis to test drive once. I liked the sales rep Cleo, he was real low key. But we haven't started talking price yet (aside from him telling me MSRP, which I certainly will be paying less than). May visit another dealer this weekend. Let's stay in touch via this forum. I'd be interested to hear what ATL area dealers you like.
After Market CD changer:
I'm pretty sure that you can install an after market CD changer yourself, www.crutchfield.com. However, you dont necessarily save much money and your still limited to the same brand, panasonic, that vw installs for you. So I'm leaning torwards just getting the in dash unit from the dealer.
John
I called VWofA asking about an official VW bumper-to-bumper extended warranty and was told there isn't one. The rep said that some dealers offer a policy from a company called Masterguard but she quickly added that Masterguard is _not_ affiliated with VW and merely has permission to use the VW logo.
Considering the fact that VW is willing to back the drivetrain (thus assuming a huge portion of the risk) for 100K is would seem that they could offer a very competitive price for the non-drivetrain components. Are they so leery of the quality of their vehicles that no amout of $$$ is enough for them to back them with a warranty? This hardly inspires confidence in prospective customers.
I can't even find a web site for Masterguard. Can anyone offer any insight into experiences (good or bad) with various third-party bumper-to-bumper coverage on their Passats? Do the prices of any of these policies reflect the fact that VW is covering the drivetrain?
VW.COM
Click on *Cars* and then *Pre-Owned*; there you will find the entire CPO program and it's details.
Then you can put in your Zip code or Area code and
see just how many are available in your area.
And this is an interesting fact...In Silicon Valley and the Monterey, Pebble Beach, Carmel areas...there are 19 available...19. I cannot tell
you how many thousands of Passats we have sold in the last three model years...well, with some research I could, but for this post let's say it's
10's of thousands and there are NINETEEN available
on the used market.
For all of the bad mouthing that we have heard here and in other areas that speaks volumes.
Bottom line here is your budget, availability in
your part of the country, and how flexible you are
about colors & options.
First of all, you might just find exactly what you are looking for, and if that happens then go
for it, but, and I have always felt this way, if
you are going to write a check at the 1st of the
month, and it is for 3-4-5 hundred bucks; when you
drive that car you should LOVE IT...* Penny wise
Pound foolish*...no one in the car business wrote
that, but it sure applies here.
And finally, none of the CPO Passats that I found
are that inexpensive...the New Passat certainly
holds it's value; there is nothing quite like a
NEW car...no one else's...just yours...9 miles on
the odometer...yours!!!! Driver's Wanted.....
Detroit, Mich. If you need it, I will give you the name of the firm...email me, but for this post
let me assure that this is a joint licensing agreement that provides for the VW customer an
extended warranty that they can believe in. It is
not an *acme*, *fidelity* vapor warranty.
VW/Audi builds cars, BMW builds cars, etc. Insurance companies provide *extended warranties*
which are not to disimilar to Term Life Insurance policies...
The reason that you could not find *Masterguard*
on the web is that it is a generic VW term; not
a publicly traded company.
You can extend your B to B Warranty thru VW, but
you have to find an *Authorized VW Masterguard*
Dealer...I would be more than happy to help you
find one in your area...just let me know what I
can do...
And, by the way, congratulations on your recent
purchase...you now own one of the most highly
awarded automobiles in the US & Europe, not to
mention safest...and welcome to the VW family!!!
1. Is there going to be a 5-cylinder model offered in the US? This wasn't clear to me in George Achorn's article. Or is VW just going to offer a higher-power 4-cylinder and the current V6?
2. The article suggested that there would be body reinforcements to meet all crash-test standards. Does the 2001 Passat not meet all crash test stds. currently? Is the improvement for rear side-impacts?
3. On a VWVortex post, someone said that the 2001.5 may not be offered as a wagon in the US until the summer. Does anyone know anything about when the 2001.5 (GLS V6) would be offered in the U.S. (East coast)?
Many thanks in advance.
1. I've read that they will NOT be bringing the 5-cyl to North America. That the current engine combinations will remain (for the first year of the new model anyway). Maybe later the new 3.0 from the A4(nice)...or the W8!!!
2. The artical said that the new reinforcements improved the safety AND that it meets ALL standards in the world. It didn't say that it currently does not meet standards.
IIHS (http://www.highwaysafety.org/) has it currently ranked as one of the best (Including bumper tests); so it should be better than the excellent old one.
3. I wouldn't think that the Wagon would be too far behind the sedan. Though VW in the past has had delays in meeting target dates(remember the 4Motion), so I wouldn't be surprised if both are delayed a bit. The VWVORTEX article did show a wagon, so they DO have them..
Beautiful car...
Enjoy
with 1800 units on Board due into the Port of San
Diego 28 Dec. And the Azalea Ace leaves tomorrow
due into the Port of Houston on 18 Dec with 1700
on board...Sorry about you guys on the East coast;
I don't have anything on what is comong into Delaware...
The Passat Plus with the W8 on board is due in June.
I have not heard any info that would lead me to believe that the mix of wagons and sedans will be
any different than it is today...
I assume that every one here knows that the launch
of this car, and maybe a surprise or two, is at the Detroit show early January.
i will probably be trading in a car for my new passat. I don't know if I should sell it and use the cash for a down payment or just trade it in and see what they give me? Will a VW dealership be interested in my fiance's 1995 Chevy Corsica? We're trying to go to an ALL VW family. I've got an old golf, '71 Transporter, and hopefully a Passat soon! Thanks for the help!
regarding trading in a car vs. selling it yourself; so I'll let you weed thru them on your own, but if you are a home owner and/or Itemize your taxes, and if your tax preparer approves, you
two may want to give some thought to contacting the American Kidney Foundation ot the American
Cancer Society about donating the Corsica. This
assumes that you OWN it, and that there is no bank
payoff. Either one of these Organizations, and there are several others, will generally give you
Retail Kelly in Value, not cash, that you can use
as a Charitable Deduction. The Kidney Foundation's
motto is " A Car = a Kidney...pretty powerful stuff.
Of course, if you need the cash for the down payment all of the above is moot, but it is a viable option if you don't.
Regards,
DL
Any insight into the options list for the 2001.5? I am interested in a built-in child booster seat for the wagon, xenon headlights (lots of deer around here), and six speed stick with 4MO. Ran this by my dealer, he wasn't clear on any of these.
Thanks
digress...At least your dealer did not lie and
say that *he knew*...that is a plus right there.
Seriously...the xenon lights are coming on the Beetle GLX in a few months; so for the Plus that
is probably in the bag...I have heard comments
regarding the booster seat, but have never seen
it printed on a piece of paper; so I'll pass on
that. The BIG Q... SIX speed/4MO...already on GLX
Golf in Europe...is that not a killer? I just got
back from a VW of Mexico at the end of October.
First thing I saw when we pulled up in front of the Executive Office building is an Indigo Blue/
Grey Leather GLX with Recaro seats and two badges
on the tail...V6/4Motion, and a Six on the Floor.
Unfortunately, we are the stepchildren, as with all of the Europeans, we are lucky to get what we
get, and we get that late and by crumbs. Sadly,
the reasons are pretty apparent. Overseas, most of
these cars are wait listed...value, performance,
handling, fun, what else could you ask for? In the
US our BIGGEST complaint is CUPHOLDERS...CUPHOLDERS, can you imagine spending
$20,000, on average, and the one thing that is at
the top of the list is a CUPHOLDER? No wonder they
throw us the bones. The biggest cupholder manufacturer in these United States lost $512 Million last Qtr. and is shutting down almost 1/2
dozen plants till the first of the year...
I always try to post here any interesting FACTS that I come across, and I promise to continue to do that. By the way, I have all of the color codes for the 2001.5 wagon, and I will fax the
price guide to you...no prices yet, just colors,
if you like.
More Later...
By the way, great report on the shipping lanes. Being in the supply chain business, it's good to know VW is trying to fill the pipeline in December.
On the other hand, what I have difficulty imaging is that anyone would sell a $25K car in the U.S. market without adequate cup holders.
It is as truly stupid a design and marketing decision as selling Corvettes or Vipers in Germany with 80(130) mph(kph) speedometers would be.
For anyone associated with VW to criticize those who dislike the flimsy, ineffective cup holders only fuels the fires of those who claim that VW USA is arrogant, and ignores the needs of customers.
is received, and then the possibility of the TDI
4Motion. This Passat, unveiled at the Frankfurt
Trade show has the 2.5L V6 TDI. But can we get
enough support for this diesel over here? I am not
so sure of that, regardless of it's tremendous
attributes.
Will keep you posted...
*complaints* of our customers...you can visit my
website for a picture of the new interior of the
Passat and it's redesigned center arm rest and
cupholder group.
I am an old man, sir, I was 11, and sitting behind the Dodgers dugout when they won their 1st
World series battle against the Yankees in 1955.
I have driven cars without cupholders for so long
that I find it extremely difficult to classify
their presence as a *need*. Although everybody
does it, a driver drinking coffee or a coke while driving is not the safest thing in the world to do...it is a distraction, which is why you are
not permitted to do it in Europe. The same is true with cell phones. I don't know how long you have had your Passat, but the 2000 MY cars and
beyond have an opn grid placed near the *courtesy lights* for a mic for a hands free phone set-up. A little thing, but further evidence that we are more concerned with the overall safety of our
customers.
Glad you are enjoying your Passat...
Now, as I understand it, thousands of these cars are on boats, working their way across the pond to the U.S. I suggest that we airlift some kind of "action hero" onto these show-moving barges and have these cars examined more closely. Strange as it may seem, this may be the only solution--because I guess that no one checked on these cars before departure.
Actually, I am beginning to suspect that this is a "marketing strategy" to help dealers unload 2001s--if people don't know much about the new model, they will be more inclined to buy the old one...
great a sacrifice, but just to know that you
would leave your computer in search of the information; that contribution to mankind...well it is just more than anyone could ask...besides,
revisiting that strawberry conspiracy would be an
enormous distraction to the Captain and his crew,
but don't throw those ball bearings...you will have to wait four weeks till all is revealed at
the Detroit Auto Show....
Whatever rules may apply, or preferences exist in Europe - and they are far from uniform, country by country - any car sold in the United States should have decent cup holders.
As to dangerous driving practices, having lived in Britain and two European countries I find drinking coffee while driving a lot less distracting than German drivers' habits of tailgating and even bumping into cars in front of them at high speed. The first time I saw this I could scarcely believe it. I was driving a small (three series) BMW flat-out, doing 120 mph in the middle lane, when a large six or seven series BMW zipped past me at probably 130. A large Merc came up to about half a car length behind him and began flashing his lights and standing on the horn. When the BMW failed to move out of the way the driver of the Mercedes actually creeped up and gently tapped the other car's bumper.
This behavior, and worse, is common on German roads. On one visit the British Automobile Association included with my insurance and carnet papers a written warning not to use the finger-tapping-on-forehead gesture while driving in Germany. It had been specifically outlawed after having triggered numerous road rage incidents of deliberate ramming at high speed.
Germany has the highway carnage rate of a third world country. They are willing to accept that in order not to have speed limits on most stretches of most autobahns
Who would a thunk that a car salesman would toss in a reference to the "Caine Mutiny"?
of the Passat in '98, and it is exactly as you
state...
I will never ever forget hearing over and over
Vin Scully, trying to hold back the emotion...
and not doing to well at it either, "Ladies and
Gentlemen, the Brooklyn Dodgers are the new
World Champions". I had the honor of meeting him at a *Roast* at the Beverly Hilton in 1975, and
we reminisced about that event 20 years prior...
I'll never forget that either...It was like being
introduced and talking to Jackie or Mickey...
Did you see the new center console? What do you
think?
Thanks.