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Oldsmobile Intrigue

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Comments

  • 14151415 Member Posts: 249
    With the autos stacking up in dealers lots; the rebates should start to get sweeter around the end of year. We will see the autos go to pot first and then the housing market will cave. The next pres is stuck with a recession up front; and looks like our weekend will prolong the election fiasco...offering Komrade Gore and Daley a little breathing room. This one is going to hang around for the next four years.

    The Intrigue gets a two week rest, and then during December it gets about 2 1/2 wks off.

    Anybody come up with aftermarket rotors which are reasonable and durable??? I imagine by springtime mine will be ready for the fronts to be replaced.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    What will happen to the Intrigue (Sales wise) when the 3.5L DOHC V-6 engine finally becomes available in its sister W-Body offerings?

    The main reason people buy this car is becuase of its engine exclusivity. Once that is lost and buyers can get a Regal or Impala with the 3.5L, then what will be the main reason to continue to buy the Intrigue....design may be...but what else?
  • j_colemanj_coleman Member Posts: 143
    teo: The 3.5 engine is not the main reason I bought the Intrigue. I probably would have bought one anyway if it came exclusively with the 3800. Interior/exterior styling are what lured me to Intrigue over Impala, Grand Prix, etc... When I bought mine in June '99 there were many with the 3800 still around. But I felt that if I'm going to buy a new car then I want the new engine too!
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    It has been posted here before but www.autosite.com is a great site to see what the sales figures for all vehicles out there.
    Intrigue is down a bunch from last year, but is selling about the same as regal. Grand prix and intrepid are at 120,000 units. Impala is over 130,000. The new deville is selling incredibly well probably at the expense of seville.
    I can't understand why the explorer is still doing great. What a piece of junk.
    The intrigue has relatively few options and except for PCS gm has not offered a lot of extras on this car. We need wheel,engine, and interior options.
  • vcjumpervcjumper Member Posts: 1,110
    I would guess that by the time the 3.5L or some iteration appears in all the W-bodies, they will all be redesigned by then.
  • grbeckgrbeck Member Posts: 2,358
    Explorer sales are being pushed up by the new SportTrac model. Also, many Explorer drivers lease their vehicles, so they trade every two years. In many Fords, the real problems (read engine and transmission) don't crop up until after about 45,000 miles. The first owner never experiences them. And when the whole Firestone fiasco story broke, most people blamed the tires, not the vehicle.

    As for the lack of Intrigue options, I thought Olds was trying to imitate Honda, which does not offer a great variety of options on its cars. When buying a Honda, after choosing the model and trim level, you're pretty much limited to choosing the color and transmission. Everything else is dealer installed (although the dealer-installed options are made by Honda). Honda has even cut down on the number of alloy wheel options it offers on each model. I guess it helps simplify production and reduce inventory costs.
  • occupant1occupant1 Member Posts: 412
    This is a reason why I prefer GMs and Chryslers and Fords to most imports. If I were to ever get a new one I could get it exactly the way I like it. At a Honda dealer, it's like this: "This is what we have, this is the sticker price, if you don't like it, tough!" And the dealers take it a step further by installing the options we don't want so we have to pay for them and their labor and their markup. C'mon...$99 for a set of mats that don't even say Honda on them? $249 for an exterior appearance package (a pinstripe and a set of mud guards, again, unlabeled)? The only great deals I ever see at Honda dealers are the service loaners that are a year or two old and have 20K-30K on them. Of course it would be nice to have a 70mpg Insight for courier work. And even with that car, the dealer AC is $1995 and the embroidered floormats are $169. Ridiculous...at least the Intrigue and the Impala can be had the way you want them with no un-necessary stuff added on, "like it or not."
  • dwgdwg Member Posts: 43
    You are fighting a losing battle my friend. The First Amendment doesn't prohibit private entities from censoring opinions. It seems onerous because many here seem to share the "right" opinion about all things political, and those views are getting dropped from the forum. I personally like a good old fashioned debate on the issues -- not the kind of transparent spinning that you see on the talking head shows these days -- but this is an automotive forum, so we'll just have to be more subtle about it.

    In any event, don't let the lack of a political forum here keep you away. Your observations about the Intrigue are always welcome and are insightful. You have a lease running up against an expiration date as I recall, so I'll be interested to see what you do with your '98 Intrigue.

    I am feeling a little more optimistic about Olds' future these days. GM has to get its act together and market the Olds line better. Still, the model line-up has gone through a complete transformation in the past 5 years. GM has accomplished its goal of lowering the average age of an Oldsmobile owner. They just need to be patient and support the brand a little better with advertising that has a message and catches on with the buying public. I don't know whether this is cast in stone, but a recent Auto Week buying guide indicated that the Intrigue is due for a redesign in '04. That is the first time I've seen anything remotely resembling a commitment to the car in the future, so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

    dwg

    P.S. If my fellow members of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy haven't found this site yet, check out www.opinionjournal.com. It's an extended version of The Wall Street Journal's editorial page and it will definitely get the blood flowing. Peggy Noonan is one of the best conservative columnists I've ever read.
  • htwiredhtwired Member Posts: 62
    Despite the fact that my wife purchased a new Mitsubishi Eclipse this year, I have always tried to purchase American made products as my first choice. Seven yrs age I got a GM gold card, and started accumulating GM rebate $$. I would never purchase another Ford having been burnt very badly once (failed transmission in a pampered Taurus that was not covered by warranty out of pocket expense $1900. Chrysler products are profoundly improved as to design but quality remains behind GM. Living in Wisconsin front wheel drive was only logical choice. Although firmly entrenched in midlife I like to think that I am young at heart. First looked at Grand Prix, although it looks like a sedan on steroids, asthetically I prefer its lloks to Intrigue. However our 1931 castle has only a one car garage which is occupied by my wife's Eclipse (formerly a Z28 Camaro). Heated side view mirrors, dual heated seats, full leather and pcs traction were not available on the Grand Prix. The difference between 3.8l pushrod available with supercharging and Intrigues 3.5 dual overhead cam drove me nuts, trying to determine which was a better choice. After everything I am incredibly pleased with my Intrigue. to date I have experienced none of the problems that others at this forum have encountered, with exception of still very minor front end noise. Total Intrigue package is exceptional, and for those who have GM gold card rebate dollars there isn't a better new car purchase available. As to our never ending presidental ballot counting well at least the silk stocking layers are making $$. DWG thanks for the WSJ web site. Etharmon please don't leave us, I enjoy your comments.
  • L8_ApexL8_Apex Member Posts: 187
    Since you have failed to read and abide by my in-topic and emailed requests to refrain from political discussion, I'll clarify one more time.

    The posts are being removed for three reasons which don't include vulgarity, with the exception of one post. In addition to being off-topic, I have had to remove a number of clearly antagonistic posts creating a hostile and unwelcoming atmosphere in this topic to those who may share you opinion about the Intrigue but not about politics. You have also demonstrated that you cannot or will not use discretion when discussing politics in this topic. Subtle, infrequent political commentary would be allowed but almost every one of your recent posts contains a political message. These posts draw additional political commentary which tends to dominate the topic. This is why I had to intervene in the first place.

    I do not see this conduct in other topics where you post; why can't you do the same here?

    I have kindly made simple requests both in this topic and via email. These have all been ignored. Instead, you proceeded to insult me in the forum and continue to derail this topic with political discussion and complaints about the topic management.

    As several other members have explained to you, this forum is privately held and will be managed accordingly. If you cannot abide by the Participants Agreement and the requests from myself or the other Hosts, then you should reconsider your participation.

    At this point, since it has become apparent that you cannot employ discretion in posting political commentary, I have no choice but to remove all of it. Your posts should exclusively discuss the Intrigue or they will be removed. Any further questions regarding topic management must be directed to me via email. I'm not going to debate this with you in-topic.

    Thank you,

    L8_Apex
    Sedans Host
  • j_colemanj_coleman Member Posts: 143
    I replaced my wiper blades with 22" Pylon blades from Wal-Mart. They only cost $3 apiece. It was much easier than replacing just the inserts. I'm a little confused that the manual says to use 20" replacement blades. The new 22" blades are the same size as the original ones, which always seemed a little long. Has anyone tried 20" blades?
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Are you sure about Intrigue manual recommending 20" blades with Intrigue?

    My Regal, a W-body car as Intrigue, have 22 inches wiper blades. When buying a pair of replacement, at Pep Boys, looked for Intrigue in catalogue - simply because the wipers were discussed then at this board, I mean the Intrigue one. It says that Intrigue use the same 22 inch wipers as Regal.

    By the way, I use the Trico wipers. They are very good, noticeable better than Bosh MicroEdge I used before. And better than the blades I had on my other cars when bought them used.

    I have impression, that the "GM" wipers installed on the new car are made by on Trico: the blades I replaced looks ways too similar to the original ones. I compared them, side-by-side.

    Replaced the blades only couple weeks after bought the new Regal. The original ones felt as old. The car was build about 10 months before was purchased, and probably the wipers lost elasticity while it sat on dealer lot.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    Thanks for the link, I'm frankly surprised that post was not removed for being "off topic." I noticed that posts 119,120, and 122 were removed. Either 119 or 120 was my last post and there was NOTHING political at all in that post, yet it too was removed. I too enjoy discussing the Intrigue with you and others, but I don't like it when I take the time to respond to questions or add my insight, only to have my posts removed. And by someone who is not an Intrigue owner. I do realize this is a privately owned forum and I don't come in here stirring up trouble as some others have, but I personally don't see anything wrong with discussing something here from time to time which is not Intrigue related. Anyway, how are you liking your Intrigue so far? Yours is a 2000 right? I just got a brochure from Olds on the 2001 Intrigue and I like the way that have included alot of features into an option package on the base model, however, I do not like what they did on the GLS. In order to get a sunroof on the GLS, you have to get the PCS package which includes chrome wheels, spoiler, PCS, and the sunroof. While PCS is a great feature, I may or may not necessarily want it. And I don't care for the chrome wheels or even the spoiler. My personal favorite would be a GLS with the sunroof and Bose sound system. I might consider PCS, but would pass on the chrome wheels. Now, you can pretty much get one this way if you get the GL with the leather package, but the GL does not have the wood trim on the console or door panels and does not have the electrochromic rearview mirrow. I could probably do without the wood trim, but the mirrow is a must on my next car. My 89 Toronado had this feature and I got spoiled with it. I am still seriously considering another when my lease it up and Olds if you are listening, a great finance deal like the 0.9% for 60 months just might sway me.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Oldsmobile has packaged several of their options together this year which lowers the price of the options. However, it makes it hard for me to determine what the invoice price is. Hopefully edmunds and kbb are able to price these packages.
  • htwiredhtwired Member Posts: 62
    This weekend my wife and I took a drive north to the Kohler design center in Kohler Wisconsin. Remodeling our 71 yr old bathroom is the next project for the castle. The talent and artistry dedicated to bathrooms is absolutely decadent. In my next life I'm coming back as a plumber. The drive to Kohler is 60 miles of open expressway ( I 43 north of Milwaukee). The open highway is clearly where the high reving 3.5l ohc engine shines. The Intrigue cruises effortlessly at 75 mph. I might add that the restaurants at Kohler are world class. It was a very enjoyable day. The PGA championship is slated to be played at Black Wolf Run in 2004. Plumbing and golf what a strange combination for a city to have as its primary industries.
  • limadeltalimadelta Member Posts: 49
    If I can add my 2 cents to eathermon's comments on the stereo, I'd like to take a shot.

    I took advantage of the 0.9% 5 year program AND GMAC took my '98 back 4 months early with no penalty. The '98 had a Bose system in it and my '00 GLS doesn't. The standard stereo has quite a bit of RF in it where the '98 didn't. I don't know if that is because this is base model or what. Here's what I'm doing for the fix.

    I went to my Nakamichi dealer and am ordering the TA-25 receiver with a 6 disk in dash CD changer. It fits in the double DIN slot of the Intrigue and has better RF capabilites. They also will allow me to use the steering wheel controls for volume, etc.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    The same as with the last-year LSE and GSE packages of Buick Regal. It looks as GM consider the chrome wheels being a must for higher-end car trim, and is bundling them with higher-end option packages.

    A yellowish-beige Volvo with chrome dish-like wheels is parked often on the downtown New-Haven street where I work. It is on the border of Yale University campus, and just a couple blocks from the inner-city.

    A big man drives the car, always wearing a suit and tie. He does not looks as a Yale professor: they usually dress different and do not drive such cars. But definitely does not looks as he lives in inner-city either, in his suit. Very possible, he is a successful professional, e.g. a lawyer.

    Well, some people need or like to show to neighbors, co-wokers and all passer-by, that they purchased a loaded car. But is this so widespread? Or this is what GM thinks about its customers?

    Personally, my wife and I would rather pay to delete the chrome wheels, than pay to have it it. And we practically did this: We bought a loaded GS, but not GSE, thus giving up the package discount.



    BTW, it is a pity that PCS is not available with Regal.
  • peufanpeufan Member Posts: 53
    ...seems like the two of us spend more time
    in the Intrigue forum than in our own.

    Now I know that's not true; it's more that this is
    a more lively forum.

    Yes, it is a pity PCS isn't offered on the Regal.

    Maybe in the redesign. And maybe the inline
    6 or the 3.5 too... I guess they don't want to
    startle us (Buick Drivers) with too much technology all at once!

    Even though they supercharge the GS engine,
    I guess GM doesn't think Buick drivers
    would want a stability control system.

    Pity indeed.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Even if GM targets Buick to older buyers and consider them shy of technology, why they do not provide PCS with Monte Carlo and, especially, Grand Prix?

    Yet, of all mid-price divisions (i.e. except Cadillac) the PCS feature is available exclusive for Olds. Of all W-body cars, only with Intrigue. Not unlike HUD, available exclusively with Pontiac.
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    How much arm twisting did you have to do to get the dealer to let you turn yours in early and still get the 0.9% financing? My lease isn't up until August 2001 and I probably won't be in the position to buy a new car until spring and as I've said, if Olds is running those kind of interest rates again, a new Intrigue is tempting. I would probably be 4-5 months from the lease end at that point and am just curious how hard Olds is to work with. I would think that since I would be buying another car from them and financing it through GMAC that they would want to work with me. Also, did you get a decent deal on the new one. As for the Bose, is it worth the $500 over the standard 6 speaker system with in dash cassette and cd? I really don't want to do an aftermarket system as I'd like to retain the steering wheel radio controls and also the stock look of the dash and if there is a noticeable difference in the Bose and the non-Bose then I would be willing to spring for the Bose. My 89 Toronado had the Delco/Bose system and for a factory system in a 1980s car it sounded pretty good.
  • peufanpeufan Member Posts: 53
    Oh man...I forgot about HUD.

    That, an inline 6 and PCS would be sweet
    in a car at this price point.

    As to why no PCS in Monte or GP; why indeed.

    ....sigh....
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    I locked fast on GM W-body cars when shopped for my new car, but hesitated long between specific models, trim, and options. This is why I bookmarked and am visiting all of them on Edmunds: Regal, Century, Impala, MC, Grand Prix, and Intrigue.

    These cars are sharing so many features (an some problems), that I continue to visit the sites even after selecting and buying a Regal GS. I can get a lot of interesting info, pertinent to my Regal, when reading about Intrigue, etc.

    I consider, right or wrong, the different makes of W-bodies as being more trim sets (sheet metal / dash instruments), than genuine separate models. And the exclusive availability of some features with some makes looks for me as being nothing more than marketing ploy, the same as bundling of options.

    Personally, I would like more, if all options would be available with all sheet metals - and could be bought from every GM dealer. I like a much my Chevrolet dealership, and would prefer to buy my Buick from them.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I sometimes wonder if GM is putting all their efforts into trucks. Where are the performance variations of their midsize cars? A supercharged intrigue, monte carlo and impala? Wheel options?
    Interior trim packages? etc. etc.
    GM shows concept cars but never builds them. Remember the supercharged cavalier and malibu that were in the car magazines a few years ago?
    Everytime they try to do something different the screw it up. The impal engine cradle, intrigue steering and suspension are just a couple of examples.
    Harlanc are you listening?
  • limadeltalimadelta Member Posts: 49
    There was no hassle from GMAC about unloading the lease early. You may be right when you state that because I was financing another Intrigue through them that they were more than accommodating. As far as pricing on the '00, I purchased it at invoice and we spilt the difference for destination charges. Not a bad deal.

    The Bose vs standard is noticeable for the better sound quality. Is it $500 better?? That's the part that I plan to give to Nakamichi for their system. I wouldn't have considered it unless the the local audio shop could make the steering wheel controls functional.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    I agree. Keep your eyes open for 2003...that's when GM will release the Impala SS with a small block (4.3 to 5.7L) V-8 engine rated in the 300HP+ neighborhood. It will still, however, be a FWD car. In 2005 the all new RWD Mid-Lux platform is due to debut, replacing the current FWD W-Body platform across the board. Is not yet clear if the Intrigue will be built past the 2004 model year to join the RWD Mid-Lux family of intermediate sedans. Also, in 2003 the Regal and Grand Prix are due to be redesigned or at least seriously refreshened. It is possible that the 3800 Supercharged engine or the 3.5L DOHC engine will make it to the Impala/Regal/Grand Prix at some point in time.
  • mkcomkco Member Posts: 65
    Since I'm currently in the market, I've noticed that all of the high-end models of the W-body include Onstar. For example, Onstar is standard with the GLS. Since it's not something I would choose to buy, I'm just stuck with paying for it if I want one of these cars (and I do).
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Also...the Impala engine cradle. The main problem with this component is the Aluminum metal for this specific application. Aluminum is more lightweight and durable but it is also much more difficult to weld it properly and tends to expand/contract under heat and stress. However, I haven't had any problems with my car's aluminum engine cradle. The trick lies in the welding of the supporting points. May be GM should have gone with a regular steel cradle and sacrifice the 27 pounds they are taking off from the front end by going with the aluminum component.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Onstar is "Standard" on all high end trims of the W-Body family. The connection service is free from one year and then right after the contract expires you can opt to disconnected altogether or switch to a different plan and continue making payments on the service subscription.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    I agree. With the intrigue they tried this splined intermediate shaft to give more roadfeel. It was manufactured wrong or so they say.
    Then they put the jounce bumper on top of the strut which makes noise, and there is no long term fix yet. The struts are too stiff also.
    On the impala they should have used a steel engine cradle.
    Any time they try something different they mess up. They are incapable of proper engineering and or manufacture.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Actually I think GM is capable of top notch engineering and quality. I think problems are more in the manufacturing/Quality control areas rather than actual design. However, GM's quality is continually improving and I believe that GM intermediate and Luxury sedans hold much better in the long run than any DCX or Ford products.
  • limadeltalimadelta Member Posts: 49
    I looked at a 2001 GLS and my complaint with Onstar is the trunk space the thing takes. Onstar pretty much wipes out the left side near the gas cap location.

    I haul some items that need the space and that chews up some valuable real estate.
  • htwiredhtwired Member Posts: 62
    The local dealer where my wife purchsed her Mitsubishi eclipse also sells Oldsmobiles. The Eclipse was recalled for a potential steering rack problem. While recall work was being done, I spent some time talking to Mitsubishi parts manager. He owns a 1999 Intrigue which he had just driven to Tennesse over 400 miles from Wisconsin. He loves his Intrigue; wishes the seats were more comfortable; has 40k with no brake problems; has not heard of Intrigue's having brake problems, but would replace rotors with original equipment rather than after market if replacement was required.
  • teoteo Member Posts: 2,508
    Is the Japanese equivalent of Chrysler. Well, DChrysler holds a large interest share (Since the late 1960's or early 1970's)on Mitusbishi Motors. Mitsubishi products have been plagued with many quality control and design problems. So much in average than any other Japanese automaker. Mitsubishi was recently involved in a 20 year corporate coverup of potential and often dangerous problems with their vehicles in the home market as well the world-wide export markets. I don't know if Mitsubishi uses Chrysler components in their vehicles. I know that Chrysler uses V-6 engines, platforms, etc. Even assembles the Eclipse/Avenger/new Sebring models along side the Nornal, Illinois plant. I like Mitsubishis but the quality and reliability is typical Chrysler grade...falls behind all the Japanese, GM and Ford to some extent.
  • ketchketch Member Posts: 217
    In addition to the rumors by some of expanded w-body usage of the 3.5 dohc, esp. as the 2004 mid-lux platform bows, I have read several times in the car press that the 3.5 will go into the Caddy Catera replacement (CTS) for 2002, as a rwd implementation (north-south). Makes sense as this is the "shortstar" of the northstar anyways.

    I do not like the option bundling on the 2001, but assume its a cost savings done to simplify assembly at Fairfax. Did they also do this to the GP, also built there?
  • dwgdwg Member Posts: 43
    et: I can live with the chrome wheels. I actually like them on my Silver Mist Intrigue. I agree with you on the spoiler though. I don't see any benefit to the thing and it kind of cheapens the over all look of the car. Just my opinion.

    htwired: I took a similar trip a couple of weeks ago. I hooked up with my dad in the Iron Mountain area before the deer hunting season began in Michigan. There is a stretch of two lane highway in 141 (between about Crivitz and Niagara) that is an absolute blast to drive on. Unfortunately, the deer were out in full force, so I had to keep my eyes peeled and my speed in check. Did you pick up your Intrigue at Renner?

    dwg
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    GM produces performance variations of its cars, but does not sell them in USA. Here is a site with info about American cars sold in Europe (thanks Teo for the link!)

    http://www.american-automobile.com

    The info is in German, but not hard to read. As you can see, the top speed for Buick Regal GS is 220 km/h, 195 km/h for Regal LS:

    http://www.american-automobile.com/regal.htm

    this is 137.5 mph and 122 mph, respectively, vs 115/109 mph for cars available in USA; the American speeds can be found here:

    http://carpoint.msn.com/Vip/Heraud/Buick/Regal/2000S.asp


    Very likely, the only differences between the American Regals and ones exported to Europe are higher-rated tires and electronic governor settings.

    Personally, I do not care about the 137 mph top speed: 110 mph is already crazy for US public highways. But I would select performance tires, would they be available as option when I bought my car. Not for speed, but for road holding ability, especially when turning on wet pavements.

    You can find the info on Oldsmobile for Europe here:

    http://www.american-automobile.com/oldsmobi.htm
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    I've been playing with the numbers with the options on the GL and GLS. What I've found is interesting:

    If you choose the GLS with the Performance Option group, you're actually paying $600 more than you would if you got the GL with the exact same options.

    Final analysis: You're paying an extra $600 for an electrocromic mirror,OnStar and faux (read:FAKE) wood. Personally, I don't think that's worth $600. If wood is something you want, check out www.exoticwooddash.com or www.woodtrim.com. For less than $300 you can get REAL wood placed exactly where YOU want it.

    Just to get an idea of the cost on both models with the trim you choose, go to www.driveoff.com, do an Instant Quote and run the numbers. You'll be surprised at how Olds is "taking" customers when it comes to options. Just as another example, do the numbers on a V-8 Aurora vs. a V-6 with the same options. You wind up paying about 3 grand more simply for the engine.

    For the record, I'd still pay the extra $3K for the V-8 Aurora. Guess I'm just a sucker :)
  • htwiredhtwired Member Posts: 62
    Got my Intrigue at Nodell in May. It was used as a display vehicle at the Feb. 2000 auto show. Nodell did not think it qualified for Gm rebates because it was a special event vehicle and agreed to sell it to me at their actual cost of $23,700. List was over $28k, normal dealer cost $25,700. GM sold it to dealer for $23,700 because of its use in show. My wife and I had done our homework and new that special event vehicals were treated differntly from promotional vehicles, and that both GM gold card rebate and $2000 rebate would apply. Rebates do not apply to promotionalvehicles used at GMO. Got my Intrigue GLS for $16,400 plus state sales tax. Only deal I know where dealership made nothing and GM lost $$. Heated seats are a real luxury for a Wisconsin car that is not garaged. Teo I agree with all of your comments re Mitsubishi. We have been very lucky that our Eclipse has had no problems except recall. I am also very glad to hear that GM is considering a near luxury rwd vehcile. BMW 5 seris and MB 430 currently have market to themselves.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    The electrochromic mirror was available last year with several GM cars as a separate option. Then it cost $120 MSRP / $103 dealer invoice. See here:

    http://www.edmunds.com/newcars/2000/buick/regal/ls.html#options

    By the way, after using the mirror, my wife and I would be happy to pay more for installing this in our other car. Very useful and convenient feature; it improves not only comfort, but adds to safety. Both of us value it very high.



    You wrote that the $100+ mirror, fake wood trim and Onstar, bundled together, cost $600 this year.

    For me it smells as the fake wood costs next to nothing. The $480-$500 price difference accounts mostly for OnStar: the gizmo itself and bundled first-year basic service contract. Given contract is priced $200 per year when sold separately, the OnStar equipment costs about $300.

    Look about reasonable for electronics, combining the GSP and cellular-phone. Except very few car buyers want the service. This "free OnStar included" looks is a text-book example of monopoly power, of forced bundling. I mean Economics 101 textbooks.


    Personally, I do not see much use of OnStar in densely-populated New England, where I live and work. Hardly would agree to pay even $15 for the service per year. Even this on condition of GM guarantee, that I will understand the operator and vice versa: English is not my native language.

    I am also somewhat uneasy that OnStar let GM to spy on every movement of car. With OnStar, all technical possibilities and infrastructure are here, even if the service contract is not activated.

    Privacy depends only on GM goodwill and pledges. GM promise never let your spouse to know your whereabout, and to provide the information only to law-enforcement.

    Well, I would prefer the opposite. Even while never committed any crime in my 49 years. What about a creative police department, asking GM about your speed?
  • wcooleywcooley Member Posts: 4
    1) I have an airbag light going off in my car. It is from high resistance in the pass. bag. I looked through the prev. owners receipt's and found they replace the air bag control module about 20k miles ago. Do any of you know of any other possible problems or have any of you had this problem?

    2) When I turn the wheel, the steering is no longer smooth, but kind or ratchets and is sticky. Do you have a clue what this could be?
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    You didn't say what year, but is probably the intermediate steering shaft.
    American cars due tend to be durable in the long run and they are cheaper to repair.
  • limadeltalimadelta Member Posts: 49
    Read this article today in Ward's Automotive. I've highlighted the relevant clip.

    ...But we have to say that most of GM's pass-car range - with a few exceptions, notably the all-new for '01 Aurora already on sale -- is a veritable snore. (Oldsmobile, too, is out of time and out of excuses; it needs a strong sales year to reflect its reputable product lineup. If Olds is a failure, then so is brand management -- and both should be abolished.)....

    Come on Olds, build the OSV to get some needed attention in your product line.
  • 14151415 Member Posts: 249
    What happened folks!!!!!Did the truth grab your mind or do you not remember???????

    Down in Fla----passed Knoxville @ 3;30pm, Altanta was full of Nascar folks!!!Who won!!!
  • etharmonetharmon Member Posts: 399
    I think Onstar is a neat feature, but I would probably pass. I have an integrated cellular phone installed in my Intrigue and will remove it when I trade. As for Onstar taking of trunk space, how big is the unit? I assumed it was basically a cellular phone transceiver which would easily mount under the package shelf(that;s where my cell phone transceiver is). Also, can Onstar be switched off completely? The only real use I would have for it would be when traveling and needing to know where the nearest IHOP or 7 eleven is.
  • yurakmyurakm Member Posts: 1,345
    Is OnStar a neat feature, an ugly one, or just expensive, it becames impossible to pass. This is the problem.

    OnStar is already bundled and mandatory for several years on luxury GM cars. From 2001 it is became mandatory on higher-trim mid-size, mid-price GM cars. And, according to what I had read, GM is going to make it mandatory on all cars, larger than Cavalier and Metro, in few years.

    You are free to not subscribe to the OnStar services. Can pass paying $400 per year for needing to know where the nearest IHOP or 7 eleven is when traveling. But you cannot pass paying for the gizmo itself, if you want a GM car, better-equipped otherwise. Nor can you pass being monitored by GM.


    One of basic OnStar services is "stolen vehicle tracking". I presume it means that switching OnStar off, while possible (GM dealers can install them on older cars), is very hard.

    The first idea of switching OnStar off would be to remove fuses and/or connectors.

    But OnStar is not just a cell-phone. It let GM know about air bag deployment, even with unconscious or dead car occupants. It let GM unlock the doors remotely. And, last not least, GM can perform remote diagnostics of car engine and other important parts.

    This means, OnStar is at least somehow connected, and very probably integrated, with all important car electronic modules. This must made it hard to remove.

    See also the following story:

    http://www.onstar.com/service/stolen.htm

    The story shows, that GM can activate OnStar remotely, without aid nor knowledge of the car driver. Even if the service was never activated before. Or, probably, the gizmo was sending information all the time, just was ignored before the account became activated. No service without payment.

    This feature is really very nice-to-have for tracking stolen cars. I would expect in the future some insurance companies will offer discounts on comprehensive insurance for OnStar-equipped vehicles.

    On the other hand, the technology can be used as well for remote monitoring the car with the legitimate owner behind the wheel. Without even let him know that he is continuously tracked.

    The first idea is law-enforcement applications. Would it be against drug traffickers, or just speeders.

    But, more important, the GM computers will be continuously fed by data on position of millions of cars. GM will know the streets and roads the owners are driving, where they are fueling, in what supermarkets they are shopping - and how long, what restaurants they are patroning, the doctor/dentist they are visiting etc.

    The information potentially is bonanza for marketing purpose. Comparable in volume and value to the credit card data for MasterCard / Visa.
  • spitaskyspitasky Member Posts: 12
    I actually don't think that an OSV will grab too much attention. Ford did the exact same thing with their Taurus and the SHO. I didn't like the Taurus before I saw the SHO version, didn't like it any more after.

    If you already like the car, then you might go for the OSV, but if you don't like the car, it is just an iteration of something you already don't like.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Did you read what edmunds said a bout the intrigue? "Poorly built and creaky."
    GM needs to work on their structural rigidity, I have 28,000 on mine now and it does not handle bumps as well as it did when it was new.
    GM should go to a one piece body stamping instead of several pieces welded together. It would help a bunch.
  • jgriffjgriff Member Posts: 362
    Just my $.02, it one more big step towards Big-Brother watching every dang thing that one does. And the worst part is that it may not even be an option, that alone would deter some people from even considering a GM product.

    How would you like ALL of your internet travels to be tracked and recorded???
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    Sounds like a conspiracy theory movie! :) That reminds me, if you like Sci-Fi and conspiracy theories relative to technology, you'll love "The 6th Day".

    As far as OnStar, you're right. If ever Big Brother was watching you, it's now. (It didn't happen in 1984 but hey, 16 years isn't far off.) The issue of privacy in our technological world is a big issue. The fact that the LAW says technology can't be used without your knowledge doesn't mean it WON"T be be used without your knowledge. The way it appears to me,when it comes to information the rules of organized basketball apply---"Everything's legal if the ref don't see it."

    The fact that information about you can be populated without your knowledge is disconcerting. I'm a Systems Engineer and when it comes to monitoring networks, you'd be amazed at the things that are being tracked about you--what files you accessed, when you did it, how many times you printed to a certain printer, what web sites you'd been too, how long you were there--heck, there are even programs that your employer can put on your desktop to track every single keystroke (including backspace and delete) that you've typed!!!

    My car is a personal purchase. I don't like the POTENTIAL of a company obtaining information about me for purposes I don't want or didn't ask for.
  • one2oneone2one Member Posts: 626
    As far as that goes, it's already happening. You just don't realize it. I won't get into the technical discussion on how, but believe me, it is.

    Be careful where you tread on the Internet. Big Brother really IS watching you.
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