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Comments
If your key sticks at all in one of these earlier cars, get it replaced under warranty. It will eventually break, and you will get stranded and stuck for at least part of the repair cost.
I have an '02 Focus ZX5. 11,000 trouble-free miles. I am 6'5" tall and find the front seats as comfortable as every other car/SUV I have owned previously.
Test drives are very important (and should be more than 10 minutes). If you are uncomfortable during the test drive you will never be comfortable in the car and shouldn't buy the car.
Yes, the pre-'02 Foci have some known problems (stalling, DPFE failure) and has been the subject of numerous recalls. The '02+ models (excluding the SVT) have had no recalls to date. Ford has made significant improvements in the car yet it unfairly continues to be maligned by critics for past problems. It is a good product and does exactly what it is designed to do. Get you safely from Point A to Point B. It is also a fun car to drive, which is a bonus. It is just as reliable as any other small car on the market. Treat it well and it will give you good service.
Most dealers will work hard to fix problems, but will not fix things if they are not broken. If your car has 35,999 miles on it and you take it to the dealer with a simple laundry list of things to fix under warranty they will only fix those things that are truly an issue. If they can't duplicate the problem, they won't fix it. If you take the car in and say something like "I know that ignition switches are a problem on this model, and mine has stuck a couple of times since I bought it, so please replace it while it is under warranty" they will most likely not do it. If they test it and it sticks you have a better chance, but simply asking them to replace it will not result in anything. If that were the case, then automakers would go out of business with everyone asking for a new this and that because they "heard" it could go bad ("I heard at some point my alternator could go out...replace it"; just silly).
The best thing to do is to take your car in under warranty when you think there may truly be a problem. Have the issue looked at and documented. If it breaks outside of the warranty period and it is an issue that you have documented as being reviewed while under warranty, you will be in a better position to not have to pay for the repair. Many people have had problems repaired at little or no charge outside of their warranty because they were able to say "Look, I was in here when the car had 32,000 miles on it complaining of a sticky ignition. You said it was fine and not a problem. Now you want me to pay $400 to replace it 8,000 miles later? Let's work something out here..."
Any car can have problems regardless of make and model. The more units of a particular model that a manufacturer sells, the more people there will be to complain of little things here or there. It is a shame that owners use these boards to only talk about the negative aspects of their car and do not talk about what they like. Sure, I do not like that I have a small dash rattle and a squeak/rattle in the rear of the car somewhere. But I still like my car and would recommend it to others in the market for a small car. It's economical, fun-to-drive, and looks sporty. It's quiet on the road, cruises nicely at speed, and rides great.
I am not the kind of person to take advantage of a company because I can. This ignition switch problem has been on the boards since the car came out. At the local market, I found another owner stranded because of it. I don't think the towtruck driver is out to get Ford, either. Ford is simply ignoring it to save a few bucks. Ford is being CHEAP and it will cost them in the long run.
I am not a Focus basher, as you would know if you read earlier posts. I'm simply trying to help other owners avoid the situation I found myself in. I was lucky the car was in a safe neighborhood, and I have towing insurance. Others might not be so lucky. I certainly don't have the money to cover problems arising from a company's shortsighted policies, and there are other carmakers that treat their customers better. You're not protecting Ford by calling people who post their experiences "bashers".
It is good to let people know of potential problems they may experience with their cars. To say "Advice to owners still under warranty: Pay attention to these boards and get all problems, latent or otherwise, fixed right away." is misleading. If a problem is latent, that means it is a potential problem but not currently evident (dormant, if you will). A dealer will not fix latent problems. They will only fix presently obvious problems. Most dealers will turn you away if you ask for latent problems to be fixed.
If owners are vigilant, and make a reasonable and documented effort to have problems fixed under warranty, they will be in a much better position to work with Ford outside of the warranty for assistance in getting problems resolved. For those that want extended coverage, they can always go to a dealer and buy an expensive extended warranty plan prior to the expiration of their basic warranty. In the long run, however, it will most likely be cheaper to fix things as they break instead of dumping good money into an extended warranty that may never be utilized.
I am sorry you took my posting the wrong way, but it is important for people to understand that all cars will have some sort of a problem at some point, especially as the miles pile up. It would be nice if manufacturers would warranty cars for however long the original owner keeps it, but then cars would be priced 40%+ higher than they are currently (some figures estimate that the basic warranty currently accounts for up to 40% of the sticker price of a car). All carmakers are cutting costs right now. Even the all-mighty Toyota declined 8% in the most recent JD Power Initial Quality study.
You say a dealer should inspect a car under warranty for free. That hasn't been my experience at Ford dealers; in my area, they always want you to sign off on a service agreement, including charges. (Kudos to the exceptional, excellent dealer in Klamath Falls, OR, who helped us with a warranty issue on a trip.) I don't have another dealer to go to. There was a problem with my ignition earlier, but because it was intermittent, I didn't think the dealer would do anything except take my money. My whole point to current owners under warranty is that the sticky ignition is not something you can ignore, even if it seems to clear up. Be persistent and get it fixed before you get stranded someplace you wish you weren't. Ford isn't going to admit to a problem, even though it's all over the boards.
Enjoy your '02. If I ever buy another Ford, it won't be a first model year car.
Candidates: VW Golf/Jetta Wagon GL variants, with the TDI or 2.0 & Subaru Forester XS.
Pretty tough competition, eh? I'm a VERY happy former VW owner (GTI, Jetta) and have been driving VERY reliable Japanese cars for the last eight years here in Japan.
Been researching this since December, I've ALWAYS had great luck with cars and expect that to continue (proverbial knocking on wood), so am not frightened by the early Focus problems--most, except for the fuel pumps & EGR sensor (DFPE) appear to have been worked out. I treat my cars well, am not afraid to skin my knuckles and know how to find a good mechanic when need be. Really looking forward to taking delivery in September when I return.
Oh, getting a SCHMOKIN' deal: $17,016 includes delivery & dealer prep, less tax, tags.
I'm looking forward to my first Ford--hope it runs as good as my Dad's Explorer.
In the meantime, the ignition switch on my mother-in-law's Mercury Tracer did the same thing two days ago. I hope her car may still be under warranty. Or do you think she's being "just silly"?
Thanks.
The other quotes you mention were a statement of my opinion just as all of your comments are.
If the ignition on your mother-in-law's Tracer went bad she should get it fixed. Now that it is broken, it is not a "latent" problem anymore on her car. Things break. The "just silly" thing you insist on perpetuating is not even applicable.
I previously suggested that this be ended in a civil manner. It does not take a host to tell us when we should stop...we are all adults here. Pat has also asked us to stop and I am going to do that now.
Further argumentative messages will be removed.
Thank you.
Understand the block heater is a dealer installed option for $40-80 or so. Is it a shade tree install? Is it a coolant or oil heater? Thanks.
The power steering fluid was low in my car, and a little scorched smelling. The manual says to add Mercon AT fluid, which I did. My wife's Mystique calls for a special Mercon fluid. Is the AT fluid OK? Is it worth having it changed out? The maint schedule says nothing about PS fluid, except to check it at intervals.
We bought our Focus in September 1999 through an X-plan program run by our employers. We traded in an old but serviceable Subaru Legacy AWD with 80,000 miles on the clock and not a day of trouble in its history.
The Focus was attractive because of its driving characteristics, good pricing, space and standard equipment. We tested it against the Corolla, Civic, Sentra, Neon and a number of other comparable models. Also because I had very positive experience with other Fords, both owned and rented. At one time, all my immediate family owned the European Ford Fiesta hatchback. I found the Focus handled similarly like a true Euro-sedan.
We experienced few of the many problems reported by other Focus users. The car was regularly serviced at the dealership and the many recalls were attended to at the same place. Other than some minor hardware integrity problems (fixed under warranty) the car was reliable.
The Focus is now 3 years 7 months old, but has only 27,100 miles on the clock. We drive well under the 12,000 mile-per-year national average. This is probably why we have not experienced the brake problems, tire problems, and other major issues reported by many Focus owners.
The car began to make a tapping noise two weeks after its most recent oil-change service and the symptoms can be reproduced consistently as follows:
(Model SE Sedan, 2.0l Automatic)
1. Start the car and allow it to warm up to normal operating temperature by driving. The noise is least apparent on a cold start.
2. Stop and move the gear selector to the Park position.
3. Apply light pressure to the accelerator to rev the engine (no need to rev high).
4. Take your foot of the gas and allow the engine revs to fall. The revs generally fall to slightly lower than normal idle and then rises slightly to normal idle speed. (The “rev dip”.)
5. During the drop in revs, a clickety-clack tapping noise appears, similar to engine tappets that are out of adjustment. The noise has the following features:
a. It is not very loud and it gets noticeably quieter as the engine settles into idle.
b. It is most noticeable during the “rev dip”. (I imagine this is because centrifugal force, inertia, or whatever is losing its effect, allowing the failing part to start slapping around.)
c. At normal idle, the engine makes a constant, metallic “ticka-tacka ticka-tacka”. Not loud, but similar to badly-adjusted tappets.
6. On engaging drive and moving off, the sound seems to disappear while the engine is under acceleration. It only reappears when you take your foot off the gas. For example, cruising at 65mph on the highway the noise only appears when you lift your foot off the gas and the revs start to fall.
Note: It is perfectly possible that the sound is constant as I rev up the engine, but it is being drowned by the noise of the racing engine.
The dealership claims that to fix this problem requires installation of a new “long block”. This is the lower part of an engine, comprising the pan, crankshaft, pistons, con rods etc. It would cost about $2,500 for parts and labor. The dealership said that they would put in an out-of-warranty claim to Ford, but there was no guarantee that we would get anything. A call to Ford’s Customer Support line seemed to confirm this. There was no way they would pay for the work because the car was out of warranty.
We took the Focus to a local independent shop of high reputation for a 2nd opinion. They could not say for certain what was causing the noise, or whether it was certainly coming from a long block component. If it was, they identified the “wrist pins” as a possible cause. These pins connect the piston heads to the upper bearing of the con rod.
At this point, this is pure guesswork on their part, but we plan to document it in as much detail as we can in the hope that the data might be of use to other Focus owners who encounter this problem. We know that many thousands of owners have put many thousands of miles on their engines, so we don’t expect to identify a consistent and provable pattern of early failure.
Long block engine parts are normally designed for long life with little no maintenance. Owners normally expect them to last 80-100,000 miles or even the useful lifetime of the engine. Associated parts such as seals might fail, but rarely these components. Our research to date indicates that among the common causes of failure (apart from lack of maintenance) are:
• A flawed or badly designed part. There might be a crack in an original component. However, a real design problem usually leads to a pattern of failures. (Actually, this has happened to me once before with a Honda motorcycle engine. The crankshaft broke at 70mph and destroyed the engine. It was a metallurgical flaw in a cast part. I never got that bike fixed properly by Honda and eventually sold it back to the dealer to settle thanks to a Small Claims court victory.)
• Incorrect assembly. (This is my favorite “most likely reason”, particularly when there is no pattern of failure in a specific model. Modern engines are incredibly complex and one little mistake in assembly )
• Running the engine with no oil to the point of overheating. This usually causes a catastrophic failure and generally requires that the driver be totally inconsiderate of many warning signs. (From my research it seems the mechanics who forget to refill with oil, install filters correctly, or leave drain plugs out is a not uncommon problem.)
• Overheating resulting from cooling system failure. (I’ve been through this one too with a 650cc Mini engine. I loaned the car to a friend who ran it dry, failing to spot a radiator leak. Incredibly, it survived and ran for many thousands of miles after that.)
In the case of the Focus, there are no apparent problems with the oil or cooling system, although the engine was serviced two weeks before the noise appeared. We have no idea if stripping the engine down could show if there was oil starvation damage. We are researching that possibility now.
Options at this point are:
• To get into a battle with the dealership and with Ford over who pays.
• To just carry on driving the thing in the hope that it never gets any worse. It might never fail catastrophically.
• To pay a third party to have the engine dismantled and examine the parts to try to determine the actual cause. Although it might be an expensive option, I feel that it might possibly provide enough data for a strong legal suit.
• Sell or trade it and run. Not really an option. Unlike Ford and the dealership, I had an ethical upbringing and could not in all honesty pass off the car as merchantable in its present condition.
What we decided to do for now was make an offer of half the labor costs, requesting the dealership and Ford to supply the parts and remaining labor. Hope this
In contrast, ChryslerDB recently paid for $1,000 of defective front end parts on my 1997 Jeep GC Laredo V8 even though it is six years old and has done 45,000 miles. Well out of warranty. ChryslerDB, and their dealership, stood behind their product without a whimper and without asking me to pay first.
If Tiredomanual some real experience in out-of-warranty claims, other than heresay and innuendo, Perhaps he could write it up for the benefit of others and show us the foolproof way to get out-of-warranty service.
We tracked down the owner and president of the dealership chain and sent him a registered letter outlining our complaint. He 'phoned us the following day stating that he had looked up our service record and was in agreement with our complaint. He personally intervened with Ford we settled the matter for a $500 flat charge and a 12 month warranty extension on the replacement long block.
And no, I'm NOT thrilled with this outcome because I believe that an engine with a full dealership service history should last more than 27,000 miles. It gets me a working car, and it gets a quick resolution.
I wonder what happens to the customers who don't get "attitude".
Regards,
The Wol.
Of course, some dealers are much better than others. I'll never go for service to the dealer who sold me my car. They charged me to look into a tire noise and an annoying squeak (while under warranty), but didn't even take the car out because it only had 1/8 tank of gas! I didn't leave it there for the fix, because I could see they were going to charge whatever they could. A sad contrast to the effort the Mazda dealer put into eliminating a squeak in my friend's car.
If a dealer is using it, I doubt it will affect your warranty.
See:
http://www.performanceoiltechnology.com/ford5w20.htm
It seems that the manufacturers recommended oil specification and the manufacturer's required oil specification are really what affects warranty issues.
From: http://tis.eh.doe.gov/p2/ap/BigThree.htm
Fords specification is ESE-M2C153-E and licensed as CERTIFIED FOR GASOLINE ENGINES by the AMERICAN PETROLEUM INSTITUTE (API Certification).
Most multigrades seem to meet this spec. Lower viscosity ones will help with fuel efficiency so they recommend the lowest. Otherwise the usual temperature tables apply.
Good information from Kendall at:
http://www.kendallmotoroil.com/techtips/form8470.html
(Try the Nitro-70 in your ford focus dragster.)
There are some oils that do not meet Ford's technical specification. As long as your dealer uses an oil that meets the technical specification, your warranty is not void.
The connection to hill climbing suggests a fuel pump problem (sometimes a filter inside the tank). Is it worse when low on fuel? I have seen other posts about fuel pumps.
I have a 2000 LX. After about a year, I had intermittent poor performance (even stalled once, just going down the road) with the engine light coming. Ford replaced the head, at their expense, and I've had no trouble since. The dealer said the repair was suggested by Ford, but didn't explain further. Hope it's nothing so drastic.
console armrest. However, I am convinced, as well as my friends who have seen and felt it,
it is no different than the rubber-like normal
armrest (I have compared it to many different
interiors and it is indeed no different). I'm
wondering if it was left off in the manufacturing process. Can anyone with the Centennial Package comment on the quality and feel of the leather center armrest.
Thanks for your help,
Ragtopgeek
PS - I absolutely love my car--just hope it remains reliable.
I went to a place that could do that, but, the cost would have been open ended. They said that they would make a change for me to try, if it worked, fine, however, they would keep making adjustments until I was satisfied.
Is the fixed seat neatly finished so there is no sloppy workmanship showing?
It was a place that does seats for boats also, check local boating shops.
Well worth it, I drove an 8 hour trip with no fatigue or aches.
I wonder if there's any other differences in the "Sport Group" seats?
Another problem my car has is a drive line whine in the 30-40 mph area (it whines below and over) however that is the loudest range.
Test drive your car at least 50 miles and at all speeds. The noise is not evident at 60-70.
There are some chairs that will INSTANTLY give me a back ache. Hopefully, the ZTW won't be one. The lack of lateral support could be a problem with the slick leather/vinyl surfaces also, but I guess I'll just have to adapt!
Well, I have had this car for less than a mo. A wk ago an ac-related noise started which is just about constant and driving me nuts.
The sound is a faint clicking noise that occurs while the ac is on and the car is acutally on the move [driving]. I can also replicate the noise, usually, with the car standing still but revved up. It usually takes about 5 mins of run time before the noise starts up. The noise only occurs with the AC on. Faint click, every 5 to 10 seconds. The noise is inside the car on the passenger side in the vicinity of the glove compartment.
So I take it to the dealer and at first they say they don't hear it. So I take the service rep out for a ride, and sure enough the sound is there and he hears it. He ohs and hums around and then brings another new Focus out from the lot and, sure enough, it also has this same annoying, constant noise!
The bottom line is that this noise is just a factor with this car???? You have got to be kidding! This is an ongoing click that is heard inside the car every 5 seconds!
Also, recently I drove a rental Focus 2003 for 2-1/2 wks and never once heard this sound.
I did call Ford Customer Service, but it sounded to me that I will just be getting the run around. They are going to contact the dealer. So? The Dealer knows and told me to contact Ford!
I am about to have a coronary. Any insights would be appreciated.
Subj: Re: 2003 / Ford / Focus Vehicle Problems
Date: 6/21/2003 3:46:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time
From: crcfmc@customersupportctr.com
To: E0406@aol.com
Sent from the Internet (Details)
Dear Elizabeth,
Thank you for your message of 06/20/03 regarding your 2003 Ford Focus.
We appreciate the time you have taken to write us concerning the noise
coming from the air conditioning on your vehicle.
We regret the circumstances that have prompted you to contact us.
Please accept our apology for any frustration or inconvenience you may
have experienced as a result of this situation.
Our records indicate that earlier on 06/20/2003, you contacted the
Customer Relationship Center (CRC) via phone and our Customer Service
Representative provided an answer to your inquiry.
We do appreciate the fact that you are a loyal customer, and we
apologize that we have not given you an answer that you are satisfied
with. We thank you for the opportunity to address your concerns but
unfortunately at this time, there is no change in the previous decision.
We certainly do want to thank you for taking the time to contact us and
letting us know what your concern was.
At Ford Motor Company, we consider the satisfaction of our customers as
one of our most important objectives. If you have any other inquiries
or concerns, please feel free to contact us and we will be happy to
address them.
Thank you for contacting Ford Motor Company.
Sincerely,
Andrai
Ford Motor Company
Customer Relationship Center(wk
ZTS that I absolutely love. However, I notice
that when I drive 45 MPH around town, the car is
in 4th gear and registers 1800 RPM. At this
RPM, it seems to slightly bog-down, but not too
badly. Just for kicks, when I turn off overdrive,
it stays in 3rd gear at 45 MPH and registers
2800 RPM.
So my question is, what is better (less wear,
but proper mechanical dynamics) for the engine,
a constant 1800 or 2800 RPM? It seems to run
better at 2800 RPM. While we're at it, which would provide better gas mileage?
Thanks,
David.