Ford Focus Sedan

bowke28

i get about 24 in all-city driving. im going on my first trip next week...should put about 1500 miles on it. im expecting 30-32 MPG, but we'll see.

jasdmw

Am looking at purchasing a used ZTS, 2003 model. It's loaded, leather, sun roof, etc. Can anyone tell me if this vintage had the side airbags available and if so, how I might be able to tell if they are there?

Thanks.

bowke28

if the SABs are there, you will see a small fabric tag on the outside seam of the front seatbacks.

jasdmw

Thanks for the fast feedback!

Can you tell me if the airbags are like the side curtains we hear about which come out of the ceiling? Are they more "body restraints" that come out of the seats? I guess what I'm getting at, would these SABs protect the head as well as the torso in a side impact?

Thanks again.

bowke28

they are torso only.

very few small cars come with side curtains, and none before 2004. the 2005 focus has them available, but only on the ST trim.

tomcat630

It's funny what people complain about, like blinker bulbs. I mean come on?

The 2005 has a much better engine and braking system and CD player standard. Some just don't like change.

fdanna

It's funny what crap people will settle for. I mean like still buying domestics, come on! Spend a few more $$ and get a nice japanese car. Heck even the Koreans are kicking GM and Ford's collective butts.

I learned my lesson; first and last domestic car.

chuck1

I looked at the Focus, and the whole car looks like it went through the "cost cutting" axe. It's funny, the Focus was a top selling car, and now the sales are way down. You can buy a Korean small car and get color key side mirrors,BUT NOT ON A FOCUS. How about the wheels, it seems to me that the "spoke wheels" came on the SE. Now you get plastic wheel covers. Ford (and other manufacturers) come out with a car people like, then they start "decontenting" the very features that people liked about the car to begin with. It is showing in sales already!!

nyfocus1

I’m not sure how anybody can say they are cutting cost when the car has a better engine (more power, less pollution & better MPG), brakes, suspensions, improved quality & revised the interior. Granted, I think they dropped the ball with the radio/HVAC controls, it makes the interior look bland. But then again check out the inside of the Corolla or Civic. Talk about boring!!!! But the interior is better in that it has more storage (example: it now has a CD holder) and more cup holders. I know some people are grumbling that the US is not getting the next generation European Focus, but let’s face it, the Focus is still the best small car out there.

Fdanna; Let’s not forget we are talking about bottom of the line, entry level, economy car here. Of course if you spend more $$$, you’ll get a nice car. I share your frustration as I am also an owner of the early problem Focii (2001 SE w/ZTEC engine). I’ve had plenty of problems that I’ve documented here in the past, but the fact is the quality ratings have improved dramatically in the past 3 years.

Chuck1: I think the reason Focus sales continue to decline year after year is the fact that the 2000 & 2001 Focus had numerous recalls & quality issues. The fact that there hasn’t been a recall in over 3 years & the quality ratings have improved (Consumer Reports actually recommends the car, unheard for an American small car!!!!), it can not shake it bad reputation. My guess is that when the car is replaced 3 or 4 years from now, they’ll need to retire the Focus name.

chuck1

July MOTOR TREND (Pg. 36)

Ford Focus DOWN 12%

What is interesting is the KIA Optima is up 129%!

nyfocus1

Nope, my guess is sales of the Focus will continue to decline or at best, level off. It got a bad reputation, quality wise, early on (deservedly so) and it seems like it can't shake it.

Of course, declining sales is good is us consumers. You'll be able to get a good deal on a good car.

badgerfan

You have to take statistics like that with a grain of salt. Kia's % sales increase looks big, but the year to year basis for Kia is much lower than Focus. Autosite reports calendar year to date sales Jan 1 through end of May 2004 , Focus 96,312 vs 2003 100,943 for the same first 5 months, and Kia Optima 20,138 vs 11,821 in 2003. Focus sold more in May 2004 alone (29,898) than Kia Optima sold in January through May 2004.

chuck1

The Ford Focus is in trouble. Now it looks like anything else on the market. Take a look at the Suzuki Forenza or Hyundai Elantra. You can get the Hyundai for slightly less and the Suzuki a whole lot less. I personally like the look of the Forenza. Yea, you can argue about horsepower, mpg, etc. But the truth of the matter is that most people care about two things; PRICE AND PRICE. When sales are up 129%-it means something. The focus will continue to slide with out substantial rebates.

explorerx4

don't know where you live, but i see lots of focus's (foci?). don't even know where to buy a suzuki. the rebates on foc's are pretty big already. looked like a bargain to me, so i bought one. pretty happy with it, but not as much as my wife. she drives it all the time, although she doesn't have to. it's too early to tell about reliability.

fdthird

Lets see, do I want to buy a Suzuki (it does have 4 wheels right?) a Hyundai (is it still a Korean copy of a old Japanese car?) or a Ford Focus???

Thanks for your input...but I have to agree with explorerx4!

hotx3

As an early Focus owner, I agree that Ford will probably have to change the name sooner than if they had focussed on quality at the beginning. There's still a stigma. When they use plastic wheelcovers, people wonder what other things have been changed that they can't see.
    My first Focus sighting made me thing "Hey, that looks like a fun, Euro-style quality car." What spoiled it was partly the little things (clutch spring, ignition key, about eight other things), but mostly it was Ford's attitude - "If we admit that the customer is right, it will cost us too much money." (Ford customer "service" might as well use 1-800-4INSULT) GM went over the top with their "Road to Redemption" campaign, but Ford still could still learn from it. Until they do, this board will be about dropping sales figures and resale value and whether Ford is repeating the first launch. This car will be a success when people talk how it's a smart buy, fun to drive, and nice to be seen in, all of which it is.
    Just check out the owner enthusiasm at other sites (Subaru comes to mind). Those cars probably aren't that much better - but the owners have the confidence that the company that made their car is proud of the product.

silver_bullet

I couldn't agree more. I was an "early adopter" when I purchased my 2000 ZX3. My initial enthusiasm for the car dampened quickly when the recall notices started pouring in, and I got on a first name basis with the service advisor. I made the mistake of calling the Ford "customer diservice" line, and while calmly explaining my list of problems with the car, I was called a liar by the person manning the phone... excuse me? Needless to say, I didn't bother calling Ford again. The last straw was being told by the dealer that my rough shifting problem (MTX75 five-speed manual) at 31K miles was due to internal transmission problems - replace the transmission at 31K miles? I don't think so! That car was out of my life the next week, and I'm a happy Honda owner now. No more Ford junk and rude treatment for me - life is too short.

mut

Don't be bashful folks, say something nice about the Focus. I'm coming up 41,000 miles and just redid the brakes, the ONLY nonscheduled maintenance so far. Best car I have ever owned and certainly the best handling. I have had 20+ cars and been driving 55 years and I like this one the best. It's just so convenient around town and good on the interstate too (took one 5,ooo mile trip). It's a 2001 ZTS. It's great to get back in the Focus after driving my wife's sloppy handling Buick. So what do you say folks, say something nice about the Focus.

learner1

I just bought a 2004 focus several days ago. Everytime when I backed from the parking position, there was a loud rattle while I straigthened the wheel. What's going wrong. Thanks.

jasdmw

Ok, I may be opening myself up for abuse, but am considering taking the plunge on a Focus as a second car, my daily commuter, about 60 miles per day (110KM for all us cannucks). I qualify for A plan and am looking at the top line ZTS ('04) SES (05). Difference in price is $1800.00 rebate on '04. Both have 0% financing and although I didn't ask, I think the A plan price is the same for both. So, experts, whaddaya think? 04 or 05?

BTW, was considering VW TDI, but just can't justify the $ in capital (to buy) VS the savings in fuel costs, even when considering a 2 year old diesel. With the A plan, the $ difference between the new Focus and a used VW is too great. Plus, VW has a legacy of little problems (electrical gremlins) and the TDI, although a bullet proof engine, does require some fiddling to keep going. And I think the stealerships (as they are called on another site) are at least as bad if not worse than Ford stores.

bowke28

like the 2004 interior better, and i would take the 2004 even if the money were equal...but the 2005 has alot of improvements like the airbag switch on the pass. side, and lots uf underneath changes that may appeal to you.

with the ZTS, you are getting the same motor as the 2005 SES, so i think its a preference thing...

if ou are that worried about a few bucks a month, get the 2004

nyfocus1

Go for the 2004 ZTS. ..nicer interior, $1,800 cheaper and the ZTS comes with the 2.3 (145 hp). The 2005 SES only comes with the Mazda 2.0 (136 hp) so you’ll get a little better gas mileage (and extra 1 or 2 MPG) but a little less low-end power. Actually, that last statement is just a guess since I haven’t read any roads test with the new engine. Of course, with the 2004 you will not get the benefit of the suspension/brake improvements, but I doubt it’ll be $1,800 better (again, no road test so it’s just an assumption on my part). Drive both and see which you like better.

I have a 2001 SE with the ZTEC motor and it’s a great commuter car. I also have a 60 mile round trip commute (20 on back country roads, 40 on wide-open Interstates) and the way the car handles the curves is fantastic while the highway ride is very comfortable & stable while doing 70-75 MPH. Depending on how heavy my foot is, I’ll get between 28-32 MPG. One nice feature I like is the speed-sensitive radio…the volume will adjust higher or lower depending on how fast you drive. It’s a neat way to suppress road noise while driving, assuming you have the radio on)

On thing about the VW (another very nice car), Not only will it be more expensive to buy, but more expensive to repair.

bowke28

if you have the choice, i would go with the blaupunkt cd player instead of the 6cd changer...MUCH better quality.

jasdmw

Thanks for the advice. How can I tell which is the Blaupunkt head?

BTW, drove a ZTS today. Will certainly do. I thought the ride was quite nice. Our other car is an '01 Sienna. Focus takes the bumps quite well, perhaps a bit better from a road noise perspective than my van, although it's equipped with H rated Bridgestones. Found everthing quite small (to be expected), but lots of legroom. Base stereo sucks, though. Focus pickup as in highway merge adequate for what I'll be doing. Found the sun roof small. The seat height crank is different. Handling is spirited, as the writers have said. The Pirellis are a nice touch. No auto diming mirror or compass, though.

All 3 dealers I visited suggested the '04 as the price is just too sweet right now. Not that many left, either. Found one with the side air bags and none with the audiophile. Several have sunroof and leather. Most are silver, liquid grey, sangria red, dark blue. Would prefer the tundra green.

My only concern is that this fall they'll start discounting the '05's and put the bigger Mazda engine in the SES. Anyone care to comment?

nyfocus1

Go for the silver color. That’s what I have & it doesn’t show any dirt. Then again, after spending hours washing & cleaning it, it doesn’t really look any different from when it is dirty.

You can get the auto-dimming mirror w/integrated compass & thermometer as a dealer-installed accessory. It lists for about $250 (in 2001) but it’s negotiable. I think I paid $150 (including installation) for it. I like the thermometer, the auto dimming feature took a little while to get to. It wouldn’t dim quickly enough for me. It seems the rear spoiler on the trunk would cast a shadow on the across the light sensor on the mirror, thereby “tricking” it into thinking it did not have to dim. You kind of have to fiddle with the positioning of it, but once you find the right position, it works fine.

One big mistake Ford made (other than the bland interior), is not making the 2.3 an option. I guess they want the ST to have an “exclusive” engine. They probably figure that the new 136hp engine will be fine for most people. It is only a mere 8 hp less then the 2004 ZTS engine. So, unless there is a big consumer outcry for more power, I doubt we’ll see it as an option.

Once all the 2004 are gone, we can only guess what the incentives will be on the 2005. My guess is they’ll wait a few months to see how well the 2005 is selling before making any moves so it may be fall before there is any increase. If they do increase the rebate amount, I doubt it’ll come close to the $3000 they are offering here in New York.

bowke28

the blaupunkt has its name on the head unit, and has a 2" LCD screen in the middle.

explorerx4

the blaupunkt is black! (blau is blue).

jasdmw

True, but the real question is what colour is the dot (punkt)!;-)

markus5

This one does seem too get dirty very quickly and shows it. Also true for the 16" 5 spoke wheels. Good thing is that the car is small and cleans up quickly with water and shammy. The side view mirrors continue to be a problem. Bumping into them all the time and I try to be carefull. Its amazing that nobody has come up with fold-in replacements.
I love the driving dynamics. After 6 months I am just lucky that I have not been caught speeding continously. You are sitting up fairly high like a tall sedan but the steering wheel is just crying out for more and more lock- it is just amazing.!
It is a quirky car though in some respects and I do like the 04 Dash with the Blaupunkt audio sysem. I do not like the seat hieght adjusters, perhaps I'm just spoiled by 6 way power seats.
  I found an after market ($79 ) compass with degrees of heading and thermometer, altimeter and some other stuff. Heartland Catalogue.

hault

My 2000 w/Zetec 37,000 miles is going into dealer on Tuesday. Coolant going down/Oil level going up. I remember other posts on head gasket failure. Can someone direct me to the post numbers. Vehicle was purchased new and I have extended warranty. I have been through all the recalls etc. and really like the car. I lived through a 95 Windstar head gasket/engine failure/FORD buyback so I will survive this also.

cjsb

Bought last week.

2004 ZTW with leather and moonroof rather than the 05 ZXW SES.

Why? Substantial price advantage. I've been pricing this car for 8 months and as of now they're practically giving them away. From a value perspective, it's way up there at the current prices. I also dislike the new (05) styling, inside and out. And why drop the 16" rims for 2005?

Like jasdmw I also have a long commute (105 km roundtrip) and also considered the diesel jetta (wagon in my case). Crunched the numbers and the extra expense made little sense. Not to mention back seat room even more limited than focus as well as less cargo room. Oh yeah, and I owned an Audi for several years and am still traumatized by the experience.

Also looked closely at the mazda 6 wagon. Fantastic car. Love it. Better than my car. But not $11 000 better IMO. That's the difference in price on the cash deals I negotiated.

I agree the moonroof is small.

hotx3

I had posted about a frustrating experience with the head - not just the gasket. It turned out to be a misdiagnosis (actually fuel pump, causing rough running and stalling). I don't recall seeing anything about gaskets recently.
Be glad you bought the extended warranty. Good luck.

granolaj

I'm considering purchasing a 2004 ZTW (wagon). One dealer quoted a price of $15,200 (with $3000 rebate and excluding TTL) for a ZTW with ABS and side airbags.

I think it's a good deal, but I'm not too thilled about the interior color (gray). I'll be moving to Seattle from sunny California, and I think gray skies and a gray car may be too depressing. :-) I'm pretty flexible about the exterior color, but I prefer the parchment interior.

This brings me to the next car I'm considering: a ZTW with parchment interior, ABS, and side airbags. However, it has other options that I'm ambivalent about: leather seats, the sports package, heated mirrors, and heated seats. The dealer quoted a price of $16,400 (with $3000 rebate and excluding TTL) .

Is $16,400 is the lowest price I can get for the "loaded" ZTW? If not, what would be a good target price?

Any help will be appreciated.

Thanks!

ps
All prices in US dollars.

bowke28

if its as loaded as you say, thats a pretty good number, but would you actually pay $1200 just to get tan upholstery???

keep in mind that the 2004s are not being made anymore...so dont take too long deciding.

jasdmw

I'm about to pull the trigger on an 04. Had a close up look at the 05 interior. The pebbled finish on the dash reminds me of those cheap plastic basket balls from my childhood. Gross! Also, the "media storage" idea is ok, I guess, but it's on the drivers side. When on long trips, my wife changes the disks. Therefore it's not too convenient. Finding a car with the side air bags is becoming difficult, though. Will likely end up with a Sangria Red with grey leather interior.

BTW, cjsb, where are you located? Did you have trouble finding what you wanted?

granolaj

bowke28: "if its as loaded as you say, thats a pretty good number, but would you actually pay $1200 just to get tan upholstery???"

LOL! Well, I don't think tan is *that* important to me. However, I did find a ZTW with my desired specs AND tan upholstery at a dealership a couple of hours away. I'm awaiting a price quote, then I'll make my deicision. Hopefully, I'll be driving one this weekend. :-)

bowke28

glad to hear it...good luck.

jasdmw

I'm about to pull the trigger on an 04. Had a close up look at the 05 interior. The pebbled finish on the dash reminds me of those cheap plastic basket balls from my childhood. Gross! Also, the "media storage" idea is ok, I guess, but it's on the drivers side. When on long trips, my wife changes the disks. Therefore it's not too convenient. Finding a car with the side air bags is becoming difficult, though. Will likely end up with a Sangria Red with grey leather interior.

BTW, cjsb, where are you located? Did you have trouble finding what you wanted?

cjsb

Live in Milton, work in Toronto, bought in Mississauga, car brought in from Hamilton. You?

As mentioned, had been soliciting quotes on the 04 ZTW since February. Half a dozen dealerships and an on-line service as well. So when the price drop hit a couple weeks back it was a no brainer. That plus I finally got up close and personal with the 05 ZXW SES and though it has some good qualities, is definitely not a step forward IMO.

As for getting the car we wanted, two dealers did a 300km radius search and I'm told there were 5 (or fewer) left with our preferences. My wife was pretty adamant about black with tan leather so we moved quick.

Have to say, the car seems a steal at current prices. I'm well aware of the sketchy history but the 2003/04 reliability/satisfaction surveys are coming in and seem to indicate substantial improvement. This may be one of those situations where buyers can capitalize on a product's negative reputation (which is keeping prices low), that while overcome in reality, remains fixed in public perception.

Hope you get what you want. Keep us posted.

jasdmw

Live in Burlington, working in Mississauga. Bought the car yesterday in Oakville. They too did a search. Found about 8 cars in Canada with side air bags! 2 locally in GTA (Oakville and Scarborough), one sedan and one wagon in Brantford which I think is the last ZTW around.

Have to agree with the pricing. The 1800 discount added to the A plan discount was just too good to pass up.

The one I bought was built last October! I'm going to insist they change the oil in it before delivery. Can you or anyone else verify for me that the owners manual (which I don't have yet) recommends oil changes every 6 months or 5K KM?

Thanks

justin

so, the 145hp engine that Car and Driver tested in the 04 Focus Wagon IS NOT available in 2005 Focus Wagon's or hatchbacks?

personally, i like the new 05 interior better, more refined, less "styled" in my opinion. but won't even consider the wagon or hatch if the 2.3 liter isn't available.

can someone confirm?

thanks!

cjsb

Smart move with the oil change. I should have done that as well. Mine built in December.

Your A plan price must have been fantastic. I had X plan given to me by a friend and that beat my three very agressively discounted non-X plan quotes by about $500.

I skimmed the manual last week and don't remember anything unusual about oil change schedule, so I'm guessing 5K is the rule as anything else would have caught my attention. At least I like to hope so.

I'll double check tonight.

Next on the agenda is snow tires. I've read several reports (verified by the GM at my dealership) this car really benefits from snows. Anybody have word on a good brand of 205/50/16 snow tires?

jasdmw

We think alike! I was going to substitue steel wheels and dedicated tires, in 15". They will no doubt be less expensive and will reduce wear on the aluminum rims for seasonal changeover. I have a relationship with a Green and Ross store in Burlington. If your interested, maybe we can go together on a deal for multiple sets. I also will do the same for my Sienna this winter, so we're looking at 3 sets of wheels and tires. Maybe he'll give us a discount. Let me know what you think.

jasdmw

The engines have changed for '05. Gone is the "ZTECH" gerneration. The new engines are from Mazda, the same as in the 3 and the 4 banger 6's. Unfortunately, only the top line Focus sedan gets the 2.3L engine, and only with a 5 speed (ST version). All others have the 2.0L engine, which has slightly less torque but a few (2 or 3) HP more than the previous generation. May be wrong on the numbers, but it's not a big difference. Best to check the Ford web site for certain.

justin

the Ford site is no help. kind of dissappointed that they have the Mazda engines at their disposal, but don't give us the good stuff. the base Mazda3i gets a 148hp engine, and the Fords are 130hp? i could totally live with 130 hp, but i would expect the city mpg to be at least 29 and highway up close to 40 like Toyota/Honda.

but they don't offer wagons! decisions decisions.

cjsb

Definitely on the same page...

You may be on to something. I've also got a second vehicle that may require snows now that we've relocated to Milton. So that makes four. If the number of sets of wheels/tires results in some decent savings, I'm interested.

You say 15" for the winter on the Ford. What would the resulting tire size be after dropping down an inch?

As for the engine change in the 05...I think your numbers are correct. Few more ponies, bit less torque. Neither here nor there. Though I still don't get why more attention is not paid to torque figures (not necessarily instead of hp, just along with). Most notable mechanical changes (improvements) seem to be with emissions, brakes and suspension. None of which warranted the higher price IMO, particularly when considered with the fact I didn't like the styling change.

And no, 2.3 is not in the wagon. Yet. Watch for it...and a higher (worth it?; 05 styling?) price tag. Art is subjective, yeah?

P.S. Anybody ever get kids' car seats across the back?

cjsb

Forgot to say "3" kids' car seats.

Thanks.

nedc2

Base HP is 136 on the Focus in mosy of the country, the 130 HP figure is for the PZEV version for California and several Northeastern states. The other difference is that the Ford engines are designed with a flatter torque curve, and generate peak power at lower RPM than the Mazda or Toyota engines, so you need to shift less with a manual, and it's better matched to automatic transmissions which is what most Foci are sold with. Of course I would really prefer the 1.6l tdi diesel in my Focus wagon, but that's not available at all in this country:(

jasdmw

You must be in Hawthorne Village. The brother-in-law that got us the A plan deal moved there last December as well. He works in the Freestar plant.

You have 3 kids and you bought a Focus? Hopefully your other vehicle is a bit bigger. We have 0 kids and have a minivan. Actually our 3rd. We had an Audi just before we started with vans in 1992 and as you, were traumatized with the experience ($) post warranty. Seems you're in the camp of those that would never consider a minivan because of the stigma. Yesterday I picked up 2 different racking/shelving systems for the garage, making room for the new Focus. Whipped out the seats in the van and got all home no prob. The van concept is just too convenient. Now have 2 friends who 10 years ago thought we were nuts and now have bought their own minivans. Same story, no kids but like the utility without the SUV. Your ZTW is certainly better for hauling than our ZTS, but with 3 kids and all that stuff? Wow.

Getting back to the Focus snows, the standard wheels on all but the Z series (I believe) is 15". The tire dealer can do the conversion very easily. The important thing is that the outside diameter of the tires be very close to that of the 16" Pirellis. BTW, the service manager at the dealership stated those tires are about $200.00 each! Of course, that's dealer pricing, but still, they won't be cheap to replace in about 80K KM or so. Using good snows and steel wheels in the winter will extend the life of those summer tires and the alloy wheels as well.

Having worked that out, how can we get together without announcing to the world who we really are? Moderator, any suggestions?

cjsb

Actually live in another new Milton development that links to Hawthorne.

Only one little one (20 month old), second will be another 18 months away at least. Three seat question is because once in a while we have a couple other kids at the house with ours and wondered if we could get them all in the car.

Truth be told, I'm a big fan of the mini-van. The wife not yet ready to go there though. I've also got a bit of an environmental bent and try and purchase as little car as we need. In a few years I'm pretty sure there will be a mini-van parked next to the ZTW in our driveway. Almost went that route this time.

I also want to pick-up a stone deflector for the hood of the ZTW. I'm thinking that sharp drop at the front of the car won't take kindly to stray debris.

I'll wait for our moderator's suggestion.