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Ford Focus Sedan

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    bowke28bowke28 Member Posts: 2,185
    that slot is only for what you have found. the permanent clock display is only on the bottom left.
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    naturebuddynaturebuddy Member Posts: 2
    after purchasing a zts in 5/04 it has been back to the dealer 4 times in 2 months,once for a recall on the heated seats & 3 times with a fuel gauge problem the 1st issue occured after filling, the gauge stayed on empty the dealer said ford told them to clear the computer & re-enter a code, that didn't solve the problem because after filling the tank again the gauge read at 1/2 tank the sending unit was then replaced, once again the gauge is not corrected now it stays at full tank after 150 miles then slowly moves between full & 3/4 after 200 miles, when filling again it took 8 gal.which should be 1/2 tank this time the dealer stated the float on the new sending unit was not set correctly & was reading 1/4 more then it should have
    once I receive it back from the dealer I may trade it, but it maybe my last ford
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    3screwsloose3screwsloose Member Posts: 116
    NUTZ! Clearly, your service department suks! However, I wouldn't trade yet. If the rest of the car is satisfactory or better, why get rid of an otherwise good car. You may need to write some letters to the dealer principal, general manager, service manager, and contact Ford's customer service feedback people. Nowadays, no one wants a dissatisfied customer. The fuel gauge is a relatively simple/minor element of the whole car. This could be caused by something as simple as version coding. The recall proves that Ford is serious about getting the seat heaters right. You should be firm but not uncivilized when dealing with these people and they will surely get things back the way they should be. We love our Focus and consider it an excellent choice/decision for our needs.
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    fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    Are you in an area where its possible to take the car to another dealer? So many times its the lack of desire on the part of the dealer's service personnel that makes the problem a lot bigger than it is. I have to agree though, if you like the rest of the car this is a relatively small item use use as a reason to trade it and swear off Fords for ever.
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    focusdrvrfocusdrvr Member Posts: 2
    I'm sorry to hear of your problems with your ZTS. We're driving an 04 ZTW which to this point in time has treated us well. I hope you can get some satisfaction with the dealership soon or as suggested involve other Ford parties or go to another dealership if one is available. Use that 3/36 warranty to it's fullest extent. It would seem to me that if you are otherwise enjoying your car that you should get the problems cleared and not jump too quickly into another "car deal" and more money from your bank account. Please tell me more about the "recall" on the heated seats. Our wagon has that option and I've turned it on to see that both seats warm but have not used the heat as there has been no need. Is this a bonafide Ford recall? All details, please. Thanks.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,508
    it's termed a customer satisfaction program. not all cars with heated seats are affected. a guy at work has the exact twin of my car, and he didn't get a letter. when my seats were done, they needed to keep the car overnight, but gave me a loaner. it smelled bit like glue for about a day.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    calgary23calgary23 Member Posts: 2
    01 zx3 5 speed 19k. I enjoy the heck out of the car, Has plenty of pep for ordinary driving and I really enjoy the low end torque of the 2.0 zetec compared to the recent cars I have test ridden.

    I test rode a Eleantra GT, Mazda 3 with the 2.3 and a Corolla S. They all rev faster and higher to get going especially in 1st gear. The Corolla is a POS to drive to me, the engine sound horrible and the shifting action sucks. The Eleantra shifts awesome but 1st gear is LOUD and the gearing is too tall. The Mazda 3 is total fun but the price tag scares me for what is still an small car. I mean that thing is close to 19 to 20k.

    I got my ZX3 new for 11,300 before tax, Lic so I saved a bundle compared to what small fun cars go for now.

    The more I test ride these others cars the more I like my car. Ford built the Focus with a flatter torque curve and Its great for someone who lives in Seattle with tons of traffic.
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    mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Try the new Focus, once you get past the boring interior, I think you'll find the new 2.0L to be a blast. Same low end torque you are use to, new 5 speed tranny and with 2k cash back, still a good value.

    Plus you get the 5yr/100k mile powertrain warranty.

    The 2.0 is a Mazda engine. Mazda tuns it for more high revving horsepower at cost of low end torque.

    Pass on the Focus ST. The 2.3L really doesn't add enough performance to justify the up to $20k sticker price. If you are thinking of spending that kind of money, definitely go with the Mazda3...Have yet to see a better interior on a sub 20k car than the Mazda3's.

    Mark
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    dsjeeptidsjeepti Member Posts: 61
    Picked up the car a few days ago, leftover '04, ZTS, 2.3, 5 speed, moonroof, 6-cd changer, alloy wheels (no tach though). Got them down, after rebate, to $11,990 + tax, tags, etc. Inferno red is a bit more than I'm used too (black and silver are my usual choices), but I'm getting used to it. Being a left over, it had 115 miles on it, and a few scratches (dealer re painted both bumpers per my request). This is my first stick and I'm getting the hang of it now. I was wondering If you can shift 1 - 3 in this car or is better to go to 2nd? In NYC, there are so many stop signs and traffic, I find myself constantly shifting. Also, is it normal for the car to make a light crunching noise when braking to a stop (end of stop only)? That noise and a fluid shaking noise (like a bottle of water being shaken when I stop) are my only concerns. Otherwise it's a blast to drive.
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    tmtestmtes Member Posts: 1
    I'm considering buying a 2003LX Focus sedan at an Enterprize sale for AAA., but I'm really confused about the 13 different types of Focus 2004 models, can't get information on 2003. Is the LE a stock car? Because the cd players and automatic doors seem to be a standard item in all focus models but not in the LX? and is the 2.0 liter engine better than the 2.3? I'm assuming that there are three sedans the Lx(2.0) SE(2.0) and ZTS (2.3 liter) So is $8,999.00 -38,000 miles a good price for this automatic Lx sedan? It kinda looks like a 2004 with an X plan and incentives, may not be too far off in price?
    I am driving a toyota eco rent-a-car and love the car but hate the transmission... keep feeling that i should shift gears when this is an automatic! Is the focus a similar engine? I did liked the way the focus drove...but the breaks were low...they said they would fix it.

    OH... the list I printed from the kelley blue book site, Does shows a Focus ATW-4CYL Zetec (2.3L) Wagon in 2004. and the prior writer was right, I couldn't get any good information from the Ford site either in regards to the different styles of sedan focus's or information on prior year models. Tess
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    bkr43050bkr43050 Member Posts: 3
    I recently purchased a brand new '04 ZX5 with the 2.3 liter engine. We bought it for my wife and the main reason for going with such a small car was the fuel savings potential. Although we really are happy with the performance and overall quality of the car I have to say that the one biggest disappointment thus far has been the fuel economy. The sticker listed it as 22-31 MPG and I have heard other new car owners (not necessarily Ford) comment that they even get higher than the sticker had indicated. So based on that and the fact that my wife and I are both pretty conservative drivers, I was expecting 30+MPG at least on the highway usage. Well, we have around 3,500 miles thus far and have yet to exceed 25 MPG. I know that on highway trips we are taking the whole family which is a family of 5. But our three boys are less than the weight of one person so we are basically travelling with 3 adults' weight. Even on trips in 55 MPH highways where the fuel economy should be near its best it still has not changed. My question is what are others getting for mileage and am I expecting too much in wanting 30 MPG? Because if I am expecting too much then I am regretting not buying a larger vehicle in that is proven to get at least the 25 MPG.
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    dsjeeptidsjeepti Member Posts: 61
    I wouldn't worry just yet. Every car has a different break in period, some more than others. My Jeep Grand Cherokee took 10,000 miles before I started to see "sticker" highway mileage. I never did reach city mpg's though and I drive on a lot of mixed roads. There are many factors besides weight that can play havoc with mpgs. Have you checked the air in your tires? Tried different brands of gas? If neither of these, wait until your 2nd oil change and see if it's any better. My focus is too new (and a stick) to compare yet.

    DS
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    calgary23calgary23 Member Posts: 2
    My 01 ZX3 at best has gotten maybe 30, 31 MPG freeway

    If its a combo freeway, city than its about 23 average.

    @.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,508
    the info you want is very close by. click on the 'used cars' tab here at edmunds and go from there. the lx seems to be the base model.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,508
    22-31 mpg means an automatic. don't know about mileage with that. have a 2.3 5 speed(25-33) with a bit over 6k miles on it. lowest mileage is 26.7 several times, best is 31.5 several times. only one 'long' trip(about a 100 miles round).
    what are your tire pressures? 55 may not be the best speed. have you tried other speeds?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    bkr43050bkr43050 Member Posts: 3
    I have not checked the tire pressure yet but I will do that tonight. It is due to go in for an oil change at the dealer ship now (one of our freebie changes with the purchase) so I will give it a bit more time after that to pass judgement on it.

    You may be right that 55 MPH is not the optimum speed for economy. I was told by a co-worker that it would be better at that. However, I have made some trips on freeways at 65-70 MPH and it was about the same.

    I have not tried premium gas brands yet either. I have always figured that the economy increase is cancelled out by the increase in gas price. Has this seemed to be the case or not in other people's experience?
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Unless the owner's manual recommends premium it probably won't help and it certainly wouldn't help enough to offset the additional cost.

    EPA mileage tests are so far removed from actual driving that you can't really expect your real world mileage to match. There are too many factors involved - altitude, tires/pressure, driving style, terrain, ambient temperature - to really predict. Keep your air filter clean, use the correct octane fuel, increase your air pressure by a few pounds over OEM spec (but don't exceed the maximum on the tire) and go light on the throttle and you'll get the maximum fuel mileage for your car. Also make sure you're measuring it correctly.
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    bkr43050bkr43050 Member Posts: 3
    I am sure we are measuring it correctly becuse we actually run nearly the full tank between each fill-up. I am a very anal type who checks the mileage on all of my vehicles on every tank. On all of the vehicles that I have ever owned I have been able to get at or near the top of the mileage rating, and in good conditions I go above the rating. So based on that I know that our driving habits are good in the sense of economy. I have the 16" rims with the low profile tires. I can't imagine this having much effect on the economy because the overall tire height should be pretty close to that of the 15" tires normally installed. But as I mentioned I will check the tire pressure. I have not check the air filter yet but I doubt that it has become an issue yet with only a little over 3,000 miles on the car. We do no driving on dirt roads so the filter should be pretty clean.

    I had asked the dealership to take a look at the fuel economy when they had it in a couple of weeks ago. My wife was the one that picked up the car so I did not get to talk to them about it. But their comment to them was, "Let's wait another 1,000 miles or so and take a look at it." That sounds to me like they don't want to deal with it because they don't foresee anything they can do to help it.
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It's not the difference in tire circumference - if they're OEM then that's probably the same. A lower profile tire is typically a bit wider and stickier than a regular tire and that can provide more rolling resistance. The wheels/tires may also be heavier than the 15" versions. That may or may not be a factor.

    Each vehicle is unique and your driving style may simply fit one vehicle better than the other.

    If it's within 10%-15% of EPA it's probably normal. More than that may suggest a problem.
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,508
    if you have the pzev 2.3, the air filter is supposed to be good for 100k miles!
    don't let them sell you a new one.
    also, your local gas formulation can make a difference.
    my sister was out for a visit with her hybrid car last weekend. they filled up locally got about 36 mpg. after they got back home they put gas in it again and said they are getting 42+, like they were before.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Yep - forgot about the winter formulation gasoline used in some areas. That will definitely drop your mileage.
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    iusecadiusecad Member Posts: 287
    I bought my '04 ZX5 w/2.3 & auto in April. The best mileage I've gotten was 29.5 and that was on the first tank. Since then it averages 26.5 - 27.5. On trips it seems to only go up to 28 - 28.5.

    Although one trip I filled up at home, drove 280 miles to Fargo and drove for 3 days in city traffic, filled up and still got 28. So I have a feeling if I had filled up before all the city driving I would've been in the low 30s...

    oh and I have ~5200 on it now...
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    markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    I have mentioned here earlier that the Odometer will under report actual mileage. I have the 2.3 automatic with the 16 inch Pirellis.
    I have not been impressed with mpg overall, but if I assume that 2-3% of the mileage is missing then The actual mileage is about right - 32-33 mpg's on the highway.
    Remember also that your speed is being under measured aswell. be cautious with the fuzz.
    I know all of you 2.3 owners know that this little car just wants to move out.
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    dgsdgs Member Posts: 20
    I had to special order the car because I simply couldn't find one on any dealership lot with the options I want (and trust me, the dealership did a national search and this car doesn't seem to exist?!). It will be a manual transmission SES model with the following options:

    1. Leather seats
    2. Weather package
    3. ABS
    4. Side airbags
    5. Traction control
    6. Moonroof
    7. Perimeter alarm system

    I'm surpised at how much trouble it is to even get the Focus with ABS and side airbags. The dealership told me it's doubtful they would be able to locate one because of how rare it is Ford builds the car like that. Shouldn't ABS and side airbags be standard equipment on cars already? They are proven to save lives and it's not like they are some new cutting edge technology.

    Anyway, I put the special order in last week and the dealership told me it will take 2 to 3 months to build. They are doing a straight up invoice deal at $18,754 minus whatever rebates at the time the car comes in (hopefully more than the current $2,000). Is that the best I could do, or should I try and talk them below invoice?
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    explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,508
    dgs...
    the focus is an entry level car. most are not willing ot pay what you might for it. i searched for a long time 6-7 months ago, but couldn't find one with abs and sab. bought an '04 zts(5 speed) with same equipment you describe, except sab's and leather.
    with 3500 rebate, bought for 13k plus ttl.
    the prices seem higher for '05s.
    car is bette than i expected, though.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
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    dgsdgs Member Posts: 20
    Yes it is an entry level car and I am getting it loaded to the gills. If Ford didn't have a $2,000 rebate and if Ford dealerships weren't willing to bargain on price (like Saturn) you are right, there is no way I would have been willing to pay the MSRP on the Focus I ordered ($20,160). But, the car becomes a much better deal with the rebate and the invoice pricing. What other car are you going to get with traction control, fog lamps, heated leather seats/mirrors, 16" wheels/tires, duplicate audio controls on steering column, a moonroof, and a 6 disc in-dash CD/MP3 player for $16,754? A Honda Civic EX sedan with side airbags and manual transmission has an MSRP of $17,660 and it doesn't come with half the stuff the Focus I ordered does.

    I'm happy with the price of the Focus and certainly won't complain with invoice minus the rebate, I just wanted to know if anyone has done even better than that on an 05. I'm hoping that the rebates on the 05 are higher when my Focus comes in. Maybe $2,500?
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    fdthirdfdthird Member Posts: 352
    My advice is that if you are happy with the deal then its a good deal. You have already ordered the car so why not put the price negotiation part behind you. The way I see it, someone here may come up with some better deal on a car that is a weird color or had odd equipment, or in a totally different part of the country where prices are different - really an apples and orange comparison to your car and situation. I think you're asking for trouble.

    If I were you, I'd be happy with my deal, enjoy the anticipation of my new car, and hope for a huge rebate when it comes!
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    That is a great price. Rarely can you get the dealer to go below invoice unless it's a car that's been on the lot for awhile and they just want to get rid of it.
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    markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    Your '04 ZTS was delivered exactly one year after mine. 10,000 miles on the clock is less than I anticipated after 12 months. I learned to drive in NYC and have driven a stick shift car for about 25 years. But when I bought this Focus with the automatic it was the right thing to do even though I still am occasionally going for the clutch.
    The Focus is a Joy to drive, as is noted on these posts, therefore
    I would not get lazy and skip gears. You will find that unconsciously you will end up riding the Clutch and then burning it out prematurely. Good luck. Your price was good.
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    dgsdgs Member Posts: 20
    Great advice, you're absolutely right. I'm being kind of greedy, it's that side of me that always wonders if someone did better. But I really can't complain and I'm extremely pysched about getting this car.

    I will shut up now. ;)
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    dsjeeptidsjeepti Member Posts: 61
    I would have liked an auto, but figured for the price I could try a stick w/o much risk if I didn't like it. Well after my first week, I'm much more comfortable with it. I don't skip gears and have gotten used to listening to the engine (no tach) and shift rather quickly to save gas. I do enjoy revving it in 3rd and passing most city traffic (no one expects it from this little red sedan). My biggest issue is starting on an incline or hill. Rolling backwards with traffic on your tail is bit daunting. I can't wait to get past the break in and take a road trip to upstate NY.
    Question for anyone, do you think the Maintenance plan that Ford pushes is worth it. I didn't opt for it but had some thoughts. They wanted $585 for the 3 year 36,000 "high use" plan that includes oil every 3,000 miles, tire rotation every 6,000, various inspections with gas filter and air filters 15,000, also covers struts (NYC kills them) and clutch plate. Trying to get them down on the price as I do like taking my cars to the dealer. Any comments would be appreciated.
    Thanks, DS
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    akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I assume the focus has a hand operated parking brake. If so, put the car in gear with brake and clutch engaged. Engage the parking brake with your right hand, move your right foot from the brake to the accelerator, give it some gas and engage the clutch then slowly release the parking brake and the car will not roll backwards at all. Takes a little practice but it's easy.
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    markus5markus5 Member Posts: 102
    A well equiped ZTS Five speed Stick with out a Tachometer ! You have a Unique vehicle. When I was putting my ZTS together last year at the dealership I wanted the Auto transmission, but then found out that to get the tach, you needed to have yet another option upgrade. I thought it was crazy, but having a tach is important from a drivers stand point. One thing led to another and finally it was difficult to find just the car I wanted. ( They had to go to a dealer 150 miles away ). The car has been trouble free except for a wiper problem. The other irritation (which should be a real problem for you in NYC, is the vulnerability of the side view mirrors. they are not on any folding in device as has become popular lately.
    As for the Maintenance "deal" No good. It will never pay for itself on the face of it. First of all, the air and gas filters on this car are long duration filters. I read that somewhere.If you insist upon going to the dealer for regular maintenace, you should be able to find coupons on the ford web site for reasonably priced oil changes etc. My advice to you being that this car was hanging around for one year on the lot, do the first oil change early as possible perhaps 1000 miles and make the dealer pay for it.
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    dsjeeptidsjeepti Member Posts: 61
    A co-worker mentioned that hand brake trick (reason from my understanding that all early cars originally had a hand brake). I tried it once and got a nasty grinding noise, obviously I need to practice it. People in NYC are always in a rush (I'm guilty too) and love to roll up when they see your brake light come off. With the manual, I am finding myself resting off the brake on level ground, but then I end up with someone on my bumper. I am careful on an incline to try to space myself for starting, but have little control on those behind me.
    Thanks, Dan
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    dsjeeptidsjeepti Member Posts: 61
    You're right about the side mirrors. One of the dealers had a silver SE that was equipped similarly, but it had both mirrors "pulled out" probably from a parking lot mishap. They kept the car like that for over a month (rain and all) and I ended up walking, even though I preferred the color.
    Yes, I thought it strange that there was no tack. Actually the 5 available left overs (last month) were all manuals, no tacks and one had no ABS. My dealer had two identical vehicles, right down to the color. My biggest issue was he 115 miles already on it, not disclosed until I picked it up. I might have walked from this as well, but like anyone getting to the delivery point of a transaction, you really just want to get out already. The dealer will be re-painting some areas that had minor scratches, so my inconvenience is worth some discounts. I thought the service contract, for the right price, might be good. I will know when I bring it in next week. If not, I should get a least 2 oil changes from them.
    Thanks, Dan
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    mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    Ford claims that market research shows that peeps at this price point want a lower price more than side air bags or abs.

    ABS isn't all its cracked up to be anyway.

    read this article
    http://www.hwysafety.org/safety%5Ffacts/qanda/antilock.htm#4

    As for side air bags, its my understanding that by 2008, side air bags will be standard equipment due to tougher regulations coming online.

    here is another good article this time about how side air bags which could save 600 lives per year.

    http://www.hwysafety.org/news%5Freleases/1999/pr040699.htm

    Also its estimated that 15,000 lives have been saved by air bags: http://www.hwysafety.org/safety%5Ffacts/airbags/stats.htm

    Personally, I think side airbags should have been standard long before now.

    Mark
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    dgsdgs Member Posts: 20
    But side airbags and ABS only add $750 to the price of the Focus. If "peeps" are too cheap to invest in two technologies that can save their life, then I could care less what happens to them in a crash. All I know from personal experience is ABS has saved my [non-permissible content removed] on more than one occassion. There was one time where if I didn't have ABS working, which allowed me to steer out of the way in controlled manner while braking I might not be sitting here typing right now. ABS works, I don't care what study says it doesn't. And I read some of that link and I believe far more people get panicked and have no idea how the hell ABS works, than ABS not working correctly. In every performance test I've ever read, cars with ABS ALWAYS stop in much shorter distances than if the car didn't have ABS.

    As far as side airbags, yes, by 2008 all cars will need to have side airbags and side curtain airbags for the head. It's unfortunate that cheap customers and bean counters at these companies are being forced to adapt to this mandatory equipment. Customers are too stupid to realize what's good for them and the bean counters are cheap enough to capitulate. It's finally taken the goverment to step in and say, "here, eat your spinich, I don't care if you don't like it, it's good for you!"

    I wouldn't drive a car without ABS or side airbags as a minimum, even if it means waiting for two to three months to have a car special ordered with those features.
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    caroledrakecaroledrake Member Posts: 5
    Did you ever get the answers to your questions? I would also like the answers
    Carole
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    fc208fc208 Member Posts: 1
    What is the recommended mileage to change the timming belt on a Focus?
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    ajchristajchrist Member Posts: 8
    Who designed the manual transmission in the Focus, was it Ford or Mazda? On other message boards, I've read some very unflattering comments about Mazda's manual transmissions. On the Focus, I have seen a TSB about problems shifting into gear. How about the reliability of the manual?
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    tjatfordtjatford Member Posts: 7
    1) Belt
    2) I'd recommend 3K city, 4K highway. No time limit.
    3) Changed
    4) Not sure with Yellow coolant 50K or 100K, green coolant 30K
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    tjatfordtjatford Member Posts: 7
    MTX is excellent. Flush the fluid at 120K and fill with Synthetic.
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    yzassandy82yzassandy82 Member Posts: 16
    As the silver applique finish on my 05 Focus shift knob is chipping, can anyone tell me what aftermarket knobs fit? Also, is the installation easy?
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    mschmalmschmal Member Posts: 1,757
    After market shift knobs that reasonablly priced suck, they usually use a "universal fit" kit that is anything but. Either get a OEM replacement through the internet or live with it.

    Nothing is more annoying that haveing a shift knob come off in your hands.

    Mark.
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    sparxxxsparxxx Member Posts: 14
    Just bought a 2006 Ford Focus ST Zx4 in infra-red. Very happy with the car. I previously owned a 2003 Focus SE in arizona beige, and it was a great car, I just wanted more power. The ST has side airbags and abs, so I was glad Ford offered those safety features. The car is pretty fast so you can keep up (or pass) daily traffic without much problem. I like the little cd holder by the left knee, that is ingenious and it is simple...maybe that is why it is so cool
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    xwrangalerx98xwrangalerx98 Member Posts: 3
    We just purchased a new 2006 Focus SE 2.0L 5 speed stick. Has anyone else on here driven or own the 2.0L focus stick? We're having a strange issue where the engine is slow to return to idle and the dealer says this is normal. If you press the clutch in and rev the engine to around 3 or so grand and then let the gas out the engine takes forever to return to idle.

    I also own a 1998 Jeep 2.5L wrangler stick and a 2005 dodge cummins 2500 diesel stick and both vehicles immediatly return to idle after the gas it let out from a 3 grand rev. But on the focus it takes almost twice as long. Is this normal?
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    lostlost Member Posts: 64
    Yes it is normal. It is a pollution control thing,by making the engine slower to return to idle there is less unburnt fuel being passed to the exhaust.
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    xwrangalerx98xwrangalerx98 Member Posts: 3
    k, awesome thanks a lot.

    -Matt
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    sandman46sandman46 Member Posts: 1,798
    When is the next generation Focus due. It seems that the European version is already out and that we get it awhile later. Wonder why that is? Is the European market for the Focus that much bigger than America? And from what I've read, is it really true that Ford has a large market share down under? They have some nice Ford models in that part of the world and a company called Holden which makes some stylish cars.

    The Sandman :)
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