I picked up my car yesterday and the service manager didn't find any problems with my car (re the hesitation and stuttering on start-up). He said he couldn't duplicate the problem and that he'd ran extensive tests (some type of electrical scan--I forget what he called it) to see if there were any error codes and he didn't find any. The car was running at GM spec! He asked me what kind of gas I was using and I told him that I was using a higher grade than regular (usually mid octane level). Anyway, he thinks that the gas I use may be the problem, he said the engines were built to use "regular unleaded" gas, not the higher octanes and that higher octanes tend to cause more damage to this type engine, than good. He suggested I use Chevron regular. Funny thing, the car has not hesitated nor stuttered once since I picked it up!! It runs really well. It just may be the gas. Some months ago, I started alternating octanes when I filled up, maybe my engine need consistency to run smoothly! I guess I'll go back to using regular.
In all honestly I think your service manager holds a degree in advanced B.S.! His comments about the use of higher octane gas and the possibility of damage to the 3800 V6 motor are pure nonsense. Altough the engine can run on 87 octane regular gas, the computer automatically sets the 'sparks' when higher octane gasoline is detected by the system and adjust the idle and other engine operations accordingly. What causes REAL damage to the engine is the lack of timely oil changes, not better quality fuel.
Prime example is the smooth and troublefree operation of my 3800 V6 engine ever since I switched to Exxon 89 and Exxon Supreme 93 gas....the difference has been like night and day and better MPG to boot.
It really makes me angry when a sleazy Service Manager talks BULL just because he is dealing with a woman. No wonder my wife hates going to the dealer to get her car serviced by herself.
Sweetpolly, do yourself a BIG favor. Time to change dealers! And also, try with plenty of confidence Exxon 89 or 93 gas. You'll be glad you did.
Nice pic, but FORD? No thanks! been there done that. The Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis are probably the most solid and reliable models on the entire FoMoCo stable. One of my wife's colleagues buys these V8 RWD Fords when they are about 3 to 4 years old and then he keeps them running for another 10 years. He claims these dinosaurs are almost indestructible and I believe him.
Personally, I don't care for these behemoths. they have found a niche market among Police Depts and Taxi cab companies where they rightfully belong. They are safe, solid and have 'Body-on-frame' construction which in many ways is better than the solid 'monocoque' construction in most cars nowdays. But to me they look tailored for old people, at least the civilian versions. These cars are pricey (a decent equipped one goes for around $28K) have loads of room and a football field sized trunk. Too big for my needs and taste. Drives and handles like a boat. Just to think of dealing with a FORD product again for service gives me plenty of 'Goose bumps'. No thanks...Fix and Repair Daily had their chance with me and they screwed up..and continue on doing so to thousands of new and current FoMoCo customers.
I'll buy a Chrysler before I go back to Ford ;-)
PS: Yes, I still think the Crown Victoria is ARCHAIC...its basic design dates back to 1977.
As short and sweet as I can make it....When the car went in for the last time, I explained to my dealer that it would need to be remedied immediately or I would pursue the lemon law or he could help(I had started a file with customer service also). Like you, I was "polite" in a business like way.(My husband was VERY impressed). After we determined that it could not be fixed, as per GM technical assistance, I asked how he would like to handle it. Did he want me to deal directly with Chevy/GM, did he want to run interference, or should I hire a lawyer. He indicated that he would be the middle man, as if I tried to deal with GM directly, it would take entirley too long and he felt that I might become too frustrated. HA! Hence, it began. It took approximately three to four weeks for GM to say they would buy the car back. Then another four weeks for them to fax ONE piece of paper for me to sign. Then another two weeks-three weeks for the checks to arrive. During this time, I would call the dealer once a week or so to follow up and he would say things like, "well, I've left a message and that's all I can do". In the meantime, I found GM's website and just started calling numbers until I got a live person, who in turn, put me in touch with my case manager. He wasn't alot of help in moving the process along, but at least I could find out where we were and what the next steps would be. My two concerns were the length of time it took to complete and the mileage they based the buy back on. The first time I took it in, they replaced the rack in the steering. Second time they said nothing was wrong, so I took it to another dealership. They called GM technical who advised replacement of the cradle. Lastly(it must have only been four times, not five), I was told to take it back to the selling dealer, which was the forth time. They also called GM Tech, as noted above. Mileage was calculated at the time of the second call to GM tech. I felt that it should have been prorated to the time the car was first taken in or at the very least, the first time GM tech was called. I lost out on that one; again the safety factor being a major concern, I needed to get out of the car asap and was afraid negotiations would take several more weeks. Lastly, since it took so long to get me the check, more interest had accrued from when the payoff was gotten. In a nutshell, I was able to pay off the car with about $130.00 left over. One other thing to keep in mind, they bought the car back based on purchase price only, it did not include t,t and t. If I had purchased another car from that dealer, they would have forgone t, t and t on the new vehicle. The only other one I was slightly interested in was the Impala, but from this forum, I knew it had the same difficulty. So, it wasn't so short and sweet, but there ya' go.
Yes, I also got an oil change yesterday. Exxon dealers are hard to find in Los Angeles. Popular stations are Mobile, Chevron,Arco, Shell and Texaco. I've tried them all. I like Mobil (especially, since their prices are usually lower than the others, except Arco). But, you're right, if the problem crops up again, I'll take it to another dealer. I'm keeping the paperwork on everything done to the car as well.
Keep, STRICT track of all work performed in your car. Chevron and Shell gasolines should be very good alternatives. Shell is also pricer for some reason.
My 90 Grand Marquis has 143K and the engine runs as smooth and easily as 100K ago. It certainly has another 60K in it easily although the tranny may need work eventually.
The car looks like a flying brick and the hood stretches to the next corner (actually only half way down the block - my 72 DeVille hood stretched to Montana!)
New models with the performance and handling package actually ride and handle almost as well as the Impala LS. I was very impressed by that package when I tried one a while back - but the car still has the same basic shape as '92 when this edition came out. At least the landau roof is no longer std (aftermarket add on now). There is no bucket seat option yet and the interior is obviously designed for people who have vision impairment (large easy to read radio controls, etc). I can attest to the fact that the trunk will swallow two Christmas trees simultaneously (or some number of wheelchairs).
One feature often forgotten on this car is towing capacity - the old models like mine are fine for pulling my 2500 lb boat or a camper - I don't think the new ones are similarly rated and don't know why. That was the determining factor for me prior to buying the wife's Suburban.
Parking my new Bonnie between the old Grand Marquis and the Suburban really accentuates the sexy styling on my new love! (Heart is fluttering!)
Typically on a Buyback, the following expenses are not recovered or returned to you:
1) Finance charges if you took a bank loan interest paid is not refundable to you by neither the bank or the car manufacturer (I am sure there are exceptions to this depending on the severity of the case)
2) Any incentives used in connection with the purchase, such as Rebates, Certificates, vouchers, special financing, Credit card points, etc. (There have been cases where consumers recup these incentives via a "Trade-buyback" getting a different model replacement vehicle from the manufacturer or if they fought hard during a normal re-purchase procedure.
3)Any dealer installed or aftermarket accessories installed in the vehicle. Good reason to never spend too much $$$$ on expensive and difficult to remove add ons just in case the car turns out to be a Lemon.
4) Mileage used prior to the first time the problem was reported. The higher the mileage at the time of a buyback, the higher the 'hit'. The most common formula used to determine a fee for miles used is Mileage used / 100,000 = Cost in cents per mile. If GM buys back my car today at say 13,000 miles, then based on the calculating formula I will be charged around $.13 cents per mile, times 13K miles = $1,690.00. So if you wait to have your car repurchased with even higher miles, the greater the money loss it would be. However, there have also been cases where consumers get awarded a waiver on mileage used.
In the end, one needs to calculate to see if having the car bought back or replaced makes much more financial sense than say keeping it or simply trading the vehicle and absorb the loss. Sometimes it makes much sense to cut your losses and have the car buyback or replaced. In other instances it makes more sense to accept an extended warranty offer and keep the car or simply trading it in for another vehicle. There are no 2 ways right about it.
I have read about the 'Sport suspension' option for the Crown Victoria/Grand marquis and I know the car's handling capabilities improve greatly. However, these cars are not my cup of tea in despite of their good traits.
The Bonnie is a 747 compared to the Grand Marquis...by the way...do you like the way the dashboard lights up at night in the Bonnie?
I hadn't driven it at night until yesterday - WOW all glowing red and extending from the right passenger window control to accross the dash to the left door control panel - I was Impressed!
Does Impala have this lighting effect? Bonnie has red backlighting - is Impala red as well? Maybe Corvette uses this. If not, Chevy ought to pick up on this whenever they freshen the interior - it is AWESOME
The Impala uses 'backlit'instruments on a subdued greenish light. The Impala's dash also looks pretty cool at night and if you have the stereo duplicate buttons in the steering wheel and the cruise control they light up as well, it looks like the cockpit of an airplane. The front door's power window switches and door lock switches also light up. the stereo faceplate is well illuminated and the HVAC controls as well. I specially like the recessed courtesy map/reading lights under the interior rear view mirror case. One little 'minus' is that the Trip Computer's buttons don't light up, neither the adjacent ones for the Homelink unit. Otherwise the lighting is well done and very easy on the eyes.
Pontiac and BMW (At least until recently) uses red backlit instruments...looks cool but some people say this is not too easy on the eyes. the red lighting for the instruments was used extensively in aviation for many years.
My favorite dashboard illumination aside from the Pontiac, is the one found in new Volkswagens...looks sooo cool. Its a very subdued blue light that washes the instruments, combined with red pointers (Red means action)..superb and one of the most original instrumentation layouts in any new cars.
But as often with many imports, power window, locks, etc switches are not illuminated at night. The cheapos and champs in poor interior illumination are the Japanese in my opinion.
teo: Intermediate steering shaft, huh? I had the same thing fixed on my Intrigue. The front end was clunking a lot, especially when turning or braking. Maybe they used some of those bad parts on the Impala too. I think the defective parts have something to do with the Magnasteer II system. What year is your Impala?
Yep, it seems that us Y2k Impala owners are experiencing the same steering shaft malady of early production Intrigues. I have a '00 Impala LS (3800 V6) with 13K miles. As far as I know, the Impala doesn't have the Magnasteer II steering system, rather a more standard Delphi/Saginaw power steering system but probably they are using the same 'junky' steering shaft as in the Intrigue. In despite of different part numbers for both cars, I think that the shaft could well be the same one used in the '98 and '99 Intrigues. There is another possibility that the Impala is using the old defective unit later revised in the Intrigue, but why would GM use a previously reported as defective shaft for the Impalas? Also this could also well be just a case of a 'bad batch' of these parts..problem is that we have some owners reporting these problems between build dates 9/99 and 4/00, so that's a lot of cars to begin with.
Has your steering shaft pretty much held up? Have you had the need to repeat the repair?
Just saw the USA catalogue on PDF and saw your great pic, then I said I know that person. So, I grabbed my Canadian brochure and sure enough there you were on page 8/9, in the driver's seat [glasses and all] - but no name is attached. Did you sign off on this? They used you pic in another country - worth any$.
Hopefully for the next Canadian 2002 Impala sales brochure, we will get to meet some of the "Canuck" friends that frequent us in here...so sign up for that pic!
teo: Yes, the steering shaft replacement has eliminated the noises completely. I had the repair done in October, 2000 I think. I've probably driven 5K miles since (I'm now at 22,500 miles). I could tell the steering felt tighter when they fixed it. Hopefully I won't need to have it done again.
when driving at night, look at the edge of the numbers on the speedometer just past the end of the needle. You can see a red dot, it looks like a red laser point and looks neat.
Has anyone had to repaint their Impalas? I seem to be getting so many dings and pings in the oddest places on my car! Just yesterday, I had to touch up the back bumper (again) from someone scraping my car. This was on the edge of the bumper.
I wonder why the paint undercoat is white? Seems to me, they should have primed it gray. If you take your car to a paint shop, don't they prime your car grey? It just seems odd that whenever paint is scraped off the car, you see white!
They are starting to show up in more numbers around this area. In fact last Sat in Portland, I was looking left and right at base and LS models everywhere. The Chevy dealer there must be moving them quickly. I actually see more Carmine colored cars than any other color around here.
Galaxy Silver (Base,LS),Torch Red and White. To a lesser extent you see some Red Carmine, Navy Blue, Light Driftwood and Jade Green. Very 'rare' colors are Auburn Nightmist Metallic, Dark Bronzemist Metallic (Love this color I am considering it) and the discontinued Regal blue metallic.
teo: your fingers must be sore from typing so much; Impala vs. Crown Vic: granted, I only drove an Impala (base with 3.8) for about 8 miles, but it handled pretty much the same as the rental return Vics (no performance & handling package) I had driven before... I guess I don't see the need to change a platform every few years... when they do, they create glitches such as you are going through with your Impala... Chrysler before Ford? that's bold! ;>
tpken: your Grand Marquis and my Vic must be close cousins... congrats on the Bonnie!
I'm sure lovin the Bonnie. My Grand M has been super for the job it did - hauling the family around prior to the Suburban, pulling the boat back n forth to camp, cruising 50 miles to work n back every day and it's still got many miles left to go but looks sooooo old. Those opera lights are soooo stylish!
Ford knows they have a winner for the AARP set and a few of us family guys that like the smooth ride and need the power for towing.
Even so, they've messed with new parts too - using a plastic intake manifold that has been cracking and causing major engine failure (4.6L) without any prior warning. At least the guys with Impala cradle and steering issues can hear it coming.
Can you imagine a CEO riding in the back of his Lincoln limo - stranded on the side of the road waiting for AAA to tow him? heheheheh
Maybe that's why the W limo is a Cad - usually they alternate with Lincoln and it would have been Ford's turn this time but for some reason it's a Cadillac again.
Have a great day all - it's cold and gray looking here and we have 2 of 3 kids sick - should be a blast!
I use Chevron regular exclusively (much stock and good gasoline)and don't alternate between grades. I get excellent pick up and runs smoothly. My only complaint at this point now is the rattling center console which I will be fixing this weekend if the rain stops...
Teo, I updated your problem and marked it "resolved" Did you ever try to resend your A/C problem? I had a problem with the code and it was sending the confirmation message at the wrong time. Got that fixed and reposted.
Sweetpolly, I posted your problem and also marked it "resolved." I also think the dealer's suggestion is highly suspect. If the octane was the case and your car runs great after being at the dealer, did they empty your gas tank and re-fill it with regular? In any case, it's great news that your car is ok again. Maybe it missed the dealer and wanted to visit. I swear this happens to all my stuff. Small irritating problems that dissapear once it is in the shop.
Yes I am getting used to it again - had FWD in wife's old Taurus wagon (lots of torque steer) and my 86 Camry and they were great winter cars. I've mostly had RWD (heavy full sized beasts) and have no problems with any of them with proper snows. Bonnie doesn't seem to bad for Torque steer so far. This 3.8L sure has a lot more pick-up than the 5.0 V-8 in my Gr Marq though. I'm starting to get to the point now that I prefer this Bonnie to the Impala that I wanted so bad.
Heavenbound::: Thanks!!! The steering feels once again crisp, tight and solid....let's see how it goes.
Ken:: Nope I haven't seen the Bronze Mist Metallic in person, but the color does look gorgeous in the catalog...I'll be looking at the cars next week in hopes that I can find a LS wearing this beautiful color. It appears to be as exclusive as the year 2000 Auburn Nightmist Metallic, only much more beautiful, classy and rare for 2001. The interior is Neutral.
Shamino::: Fuel tank capacity should be 15 Gallons (Correct me if I am wrong). The first time the 'Low Fuel' message lights up in the 'Message Center' you should have about 2 to 3 gallons left in the tank reserve and a range of about 40 to 50 miles according to the trip computer. This depends on the actual MPG that the car is reporting at the time.
The police package Impala has a reinforced engine cradle. If it is steel reinforced I don't know. We have not yet been able to determine if the police models are having problems with their engine cradles. I haven't heard of any to date. Like I've posted earlier, the mere fact that they reinforced the police cradle shows they(Chevy/GM) knows there is a difficiency in the stock piece. Supposedly the aluminum from hubs/spindles on the civilian Impalas/W bodies(not Bush-ings), are said to be strong, but police models have cast iron to withstand the abuse of their type of driving, though I'm sure some civilians drive pretty radical, too. My proposition was to push for replacement of defective cradles with the police piece whenever a new cradle was ordered, unless it was proven the police cradle is not strong enough. Then I would say make one with the reinforced design of the police cradle out of steel. This should do the job. Ditto, with the spindles/hubs if they have problems(replace with police pieces), or make all police package part available to civilians since you can no longer get them in the axed SS. Are you a police officer? I noticed the pd on the end of your screen name. If you don't already have an Impala, but still wanted to get one and are special ordering your car, you may be able to get an LS with the police package if you have the credentials. Here in Honolulu, senior police officers drive subsidized privately owned cars/SUV's (from approved list of vehicles), and may order police packages where available, though not mandatory. You may want to look into it, if that is the case. The durability quotient should be higher than the civilian version. I would have tried to get one if I didn't want mine right away and got the fully loaded LS from the new car show. I still am interested in getting the package pieces to upgrade. JACOB
I agree 100% with you. GM should replace the Aluminum cradles with steel cradles or at least make the current Impala Police Package steel engine cradle structure available for retrofit in current civilian Impalas and new production Impalas in the assembly line. This is the ONLY way GM will come out clean of this one. Are they doing this? I have no idea but I hope GM gets the ball rolling and quickly because otherwise they are going to spoil public perception of the Impala/Montecarlo which are otherwise very nice rides packed with value and safety.
My service manager told me they currently have one Police cruiser Impala...he will let me take a peek under the car to check out the cradle hopefully sometime next week.
I am still very INTERESTED to receive responses of current 2001 Impala owners to see if they have also experienced any cradle/intermediate steering shaft problems. At this point it is very likely that I will be making the move to a 2001, but feedback is always greatly appreciated.
Just so you know, 'Hawaii 5-0' was one of my favorite 1970's police shows....I remember Inspector's McGarrett black Mercury sedan (Was it a Montego??, I faintly remember reading an article about the car and also about some classic car collector that attempted to chase the original car used in the series only to find it abandoned and rusted in a warehouse some where in Honolulu).
When I was a little kid I remember watching it dubbed to the Spanish language...I still watch the re-runs...in English of course.
Can you send us some pics of a new Y2K Impala LS optioned with the 'Police Package'??
I just re-submitted my problem entry for the replacement A/C Compressor unit. Let me know if you did receive it.
Don't get me wrong, In despite of my 2 major problems in 11 months of ownership, I still believe the Impala is a great car and a superb value. The front end issues (Cradle/steering shaft) need to be addressed by GM and PRONTO if they don't want to further damage the good reputation the Impala and Montecarlo have enjoyed with the automotive press, consumer reports and the public in general.
The specific problems with my car are simply unacceptable. However, I have been, so far, very satisfied with GM's response and my dealer's treatment and genuine sense of customer service during the duration of these problems. The moment of 'truth' wil come this week when the GM Zone rep will make known his final decision on replacing my car for a new 2001 Impala LS. I still enjoy this car and look forward to continue my Impala ownership (Erase, and begin the count again) with a new car that I am sure will not give me another 2 or 3 major issues during the first few years of ownership. I have not yet lost my faith in GM and the Impala, so I am more than willing to give it a second full chance provided that GM and my dealer carry out with their promises and can ultimately go out of their way and completely regain my confidence in the product by making me truly satisfied. Everyhting right now is pointing in that direction, so I hope a FINAL resolution is reached very soon.
If GM truly begins to pay much more attention to certain quality control aspects of this car, it would make it almost 'just' perfect and would avoid the unnecessary headaches and frustrations (And money losses) that come whenever a new vehicle needs major repairs. The Steering shaft problem, my previous A/C compressor problem and the engine cradle situation are examples of some of the things that GM could have perfectly been able to avoid in order to make the product nearly flawless in execution. the day GM starts to pay attention to some quality control issues, they will save themselves big headaches as well as the customer.
C'mon GM, you could have avoided my 2 major repairs in 11 months of ownership if you had been a bit more careful. Now you are gonna have to replace my car for a 2001...guess which resolution will be more expensive in the end for GM...
Teo, I'm just trying to look for a logical solution for Chevy/GM and all of us Impala owners so we can rest assured we truly have the great car we believe in. I have been blessed with my car, bought new in early April, 2000. A fully loaded Galaxy Silver Metallic LS w/ grey leather interior. I bought the one at the new car show at the local Convention Center. I originally wanted a Navy Blue Metallic LS w/o the sunroof, and may, if I get another one. But, now I like mine as it is, though I wanted an SS, which was not available at the time, and now probably not at all. I didn't want the SS so much for the V8(though the juice is okay), but for the heavier transmission, durability of the police package, and cosmetics. My alternative was to spring for a Tahoe Limited, which was a solid vehicle with a true police package, though a couple grand more. I had 38K cash from my 401K loan. Still paying, but it's just paying back myself plus interest, and I own the car, which means I can sell/trade it in anytime w/o dealing with the bank. It's just that the Tahoe was too much vehicle and appetite for gas than I needed. So, since the SS is nonexistent now, I would like to either retrofit my car with the police parts, plus aftermarket. goodies, or order a police package LS and start from there. So, far 6,700+ miles and no problems, despite a front end crash from an elderly man that passed out reversing into the street. If you are getting another LS, and can wait to order it, I believe you could get the police package due to the circumstances, without any red tape. I would do that. BTW I met a guy here that picked up a Black LS with the "package." Supposedly, a police officer ordered it and did not want to accept delivery for some reason. Ironically, someone ran into the front end about the same time period as my crash! He did not relate any other problems with his car after the crash(after repairs, of course), and concurred that he thought the car was "solid." Supposedly, he got it for 21K! Several grand less than mine. FYI it looks the same as an LS, unless you specify the steel wheels instead of the LS alloys. It just has the 140MPH Speedo. All other parts of the package are mechanical replacements of the civilian version. The additions, other than the V8 and grey/carbon fiber interior trim to replace the wood grain, maybe different spoiler and 17" wheels/tires, it would essentially be the same thing, plus things I mentioned in earlier post. Instead of the bigger Caddy tranny, the HD version of the 4T65E, per Trasher Engineering Performance has harder internals, which should be sufficient unless you hop your engine up to 350+ horses. They have a torque arm and shift improver kit that should do the trick, plus dual exhaust, etc. Unlike a Corvette or Camaro, where you could spend a mint on the aftermarket. parts available, the Impala with the above, and a few other items would be perfect if the chronic problems are eliminated as previously described. Enough for now. JACOB o~O---------
thanks for your response jijco and teo. I have pictures of our cruisers, but where can I post them? I bought a civilian LS for my wife in November. All of our cruisers have between 19000 and 11000 miles with the only warranty problem being a power steering pump on one. We have noticed this winter that the front bumper covers fracture very easily in cold weather. we have had to replace two that were in 5 mph collisions.
Thanks for your reply. You should be able to forward your Impala Police Cruiser pics to the following orum participants with websites:
*Platour
*Night_Owl
*2k_Impala_LS
It would be great if you can also take some good close ups of the engine cradle structure from your Police Cruiser fleet. Pics of the interior of the vehicles, engine compartment would be a good addition as well.
Based on your comments, it appears to be that the Impala Police vehicles have held up pretty well for you with minimal problems. Between 11K and 19K miles in a cruiser is almost the equivalent to 50K to 70K on a civilian car. Indeed, the Police cars are taking a good beating so it seems.
Question....how do the Police package Impalas measure up against the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors? Likes and dislikes of both vehicles? Which one has exhibited better reliability and better maintenance costs? Do you think the Impala Police package has a good chance to be adopted by Law Enforcement agencies?
Thanks for your perspectives.
Also, you own a new 2001 Civilian Impala LS....How's the car has been so far? Any engine cradle or intermediate steering shaft problems? How's the leather interior holding up (I currently have the LS sport cloth seats which have hold up pretty well, but I am open to upgrade to leather also)...any noted differences between the 2000 and 2001 Impala civilian versions in these areas??
Last, I have read some of the 'Bumper Bash' test result from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety safety website (www.highwaysafety.org)and these valuations have shown that the current Impala front and rear bumpers are very weak and can easily be damaged (At great $$$$) on a typical fender bender encounter. The institute conduct two sets of tests to determine bumper strength..one is the "Reverse into a pole test" and the other one is the "Bumper Bash" test conducted at 5MPH. While the rest of the car is pretty much built like a tank, the bumpers don't seem to measure up well at this time. I am surprised to hear that the Police Package Impala vehicles don't have reinforced bumpers and are using the same identical units installed in civilian cars.
Next Tuesday night, the news program "Nightline MSNBC" will feature on their program a report on how the bumpers on the most popular new vehicles for sale on the market hold up against low speed fender benders. The ratings will show which cars have good bumpers (I suspect Volkswagens will pass with flying colors) and which ones have the weakest, most expensive to repair units....if they show the Impala bumper performance I don't think it will be a pretty sight either....but I recommend to watch Nightline next tuesday to see this interesting report.
Do you know from exactly where in the console the rattle you are having is originating from??
The center console is pretty easy to readjust, it just takes a few minutes. Inside the console compartment box, remove the bottom rubber pad. Right underneath it, you'll find 6 screws that hold the bulk of the entire rear console section and console box. There are 4 7mm black screws and two 'silver' 10mm screws located on the center on the center of the pod (again inside the console compartment). Re-tight these using a ratchet driver (I would strongly suggest using a ratchet driver for very small or tight spaces..I got one at Sears for this chore..paid $23.00). You'll be surprised on how 'loose' these screws are. Re-torque them carefully and after finished try to 'wiggle' the console side to side....it should not move and feel solid to even a slight amount of hand applied pressure.
Now, the front section of the console is held up by two black 10mm screws on each side of the console right under the joint where the console assembly meets the main center dashboard (Screws are located at the height of the accelerator pedal)its a bit of a stretch to get there but go ahead and re-torque these screws carefully. Do the 'wiggle' test again and it should be just perfect. I don't know if there are other screws located right under the black plastic ring the sorrounds the tranny shifter...may be since Joe has the Impala service manual he can find out that for us and how to get to those screws in the middle section of the console (If they exist).
Finally, apply some WD-40 or similar lubricant to the joints in the console to minimize 'plastic to plastic' rubbing noises and squeaks. After this your console should be as tight and good as news and again it takes only 10 to 15 minutes to eliminate any rattles from it.
Night_owl::: Suggestion...can you dedicate a section with photos as to how to re-adjust and eliminate rattles from the center console? Thanks!
Thanks Frank, I was just going to shove some folded up paper into some inconspicuous spots on the console to tighten it up! Your fix sounds much better. I will give it a try later today and post results
Teo, I did not receive your submittal. Can someone else try and send something? Just fill in the blanks with junk and submit it. I gotta track this bug down. I am using Netscape 4.7 as my browser and as my default e-mail program. With Javascript enabled, I have tested the page and I can submit problem reports. I have also received messages from others, but not being able to receive a report from Teo is bothering the heck out of me. If I can't figure this out, I'm going to have to take the form down. I hate to do it, but losing info is a bigger problem.
Teo, just e-mail me or post the a/c info. Mileage, date, description of problem and fix. I can get the rest off of your other report. Also, what browser are you using and what program are you using for e-mail?
As soon as I get my digital camera back, I'll work on a console squeek page. Does anyone else have suggestions for how-to pages?
Comments
I picked up my car yesterday and the service manager didn't find any problems with my car (re the hesitation and stuttering on start-up). He said he couldn't duplicate the problem and that he'd ran extensive tests (some type of electrical scan--I forget what he called it) to see if there were any error codes and he didn't find any. The car was running at GM spec! He asked me what kind of gas I was using and I told him that I was using a higher grade than regular (usually mid octane level). Anyway, he thinks that the gas I use may be the problem, he said the engines were built to use "regular unleaded" gas, not the higher octanes and that higher octanes tend to cause more damage to this type engine, than good. He suggested I use Chevron regular. Funny thing, the car has not hesitated nor stuttered once since I picked it up!! It runs really well. It just may be the gas. Some months ago, I started alternating octanes when I filled up, maybe my engine need consistency to run smoothly! I guess I'll go back to using regular.
Prime example is the smooth and troublefree operation of my 3800 V6 engine ever since I switched to Exxon 89 and Exxon Supreme 93 gas....the difference has been like night and day and better MPG to boot.
It really makes me angry when a sleazy Service Manager talks BULL just because he is dealing with a woman. No wonder my wife hates going to the dealer to get her car serviced by herself.
Sweetpolly, do yourself a BIG favor. Time to change dealers! And also, try with plenty of confidence Exxon 89 or 93 gas. You'll be glad you did.
Ken
Personally, I don't care for these behemoths. they have found a niche market among Police Depts and Taxi cab companies where they rightfully belong. They are safe, solid and have 'Body-on-frame' construction which in many ways is better than the solid 'monocoque' construction in most cars nowdays. But to me they look tailored for old people, at least the civilian versions. These cars are pricey (a decent equipped one goes for around $28K) have loads of room and a football field sized trunk. Too big for my needs and taste. Drives and handles like a boat. Just to think of dealing with a FORD product again for service gives me plenty of 'Goose bumps'. No thanks...Fix and Repair Daily had their chance with me and they screwed up..and continue on doing so to thousands of new and current FoMoCo customers.
I'll buy a Chrysler before I go back to Ford ;-)
PS: Yes, I still think the Crown Victoria is ARCHAIC...its basic design dates back to 1977.
Hence, it began. It took approximately three to four weeks for GM to say they would buy the car back. Then another four weeks for them to fax ONE piece of paper for me to sign. Then another two weeks-three weeks for the checks to arrive. During this time, I would call the dealer once a week or so to follow up and he would say things like, "well, I've left a message and that's all I can do". In the meantime, I found GM's website and just started calling numbers until I got a live person, who in turn, put me in touch with my case manager. He wasn't alot of help in moving the process along, but at least I could find out where we were and what the next steps would be.
My two concerns were the length of time it took to complete and the mileage they based the buy back on. The first time I took it in, they replaced the rack in the steering. Second time they said nothing was wrong, so I took it to another dealership. They called GM technical who advised replacement of the cradle. Lastly(it must have only been four times, not five), I was told to take it back to the selling dealer, which was the forth time. They also called GM Tech, as noted above. Mileage was calculated at the time of the second call to GM tech. I felt that it should have been prorated to the time the car was first taken in or at the very least, the first time GM tech was called. I lost out on that one; again the safety factor being a major concern, I needed to get out of the car asap and was afraid negotiations would take several more weeks. Lastly, since it took so long to get me the check, more interest had accrued from when the payoff was gotten. In a nutshell, I was able to pay off the car with about $130.00 left over.
One other thing to keep in mind, they bought the car back based on purchase price only, it did not include t,t and t. If I had purchased another car from that dealer, they would have forgone t, t and t on the new vehicle. The only other one I was slightly interested in was the Impala, but from this forum, I knew it had the same difficulty.
So, it wasn't so short and sweet, but there ya' go.
Good luck and keep us posted.
The car looks like a flying brick and the hood stretches to the next corner (actually only half way down the block - my 72 DeVille hood stretched to Montana!)
New models with the performance and handling package actually ride and handle almost as well as the Impala LS. I was very impressed by that package when I tried one a while back - but the car still has the same basic shape as '92 when this edition came out. At least the landau roof is no longer std (aftermarket add on now). There is no bucket seat option yet and the interior is obviously designed for people who have vision impairment (large easy to read radio controls, etc). I can attest to the fact that the trunk will swallow two Christmas trees simultaneously (or some number of wheelchairs).
One feature often forgotten on this car is towing capacity - the old models like mine are fine for pulling my 2500 lb boat or a camper - I don't think the new ones are similarly rated and don't know why. That was the determining factor for me prior to buying the wife's Suburban.
Parking my new Bonnie between the old Grand Marquis and the Suburban really accentuates the sexy styling on my new love! (Heart is fluttering!)
For what it's worth
Ken
1) Finance charges if you took a bank loan
interest paid is not refundable to you by
neither the bank or the car manufacturer
(I am sure there are exceptions to this
depending on the severity of the case)
2) Any incentives used in connection with the
purchase, such as Rebates, Certificates,
vouchers, special financing, Credit card points, etc. (There have been cases where consumers recup these incentives via a "Trade-buyback" getting a different model replacement vehicle from the manufacturer or if they fought hard during a normal re-purchase procedure.
3)Any dealer installed or aftermarket accessories installed in the vehicle. Good reason to never spend too much $$$$ on expensive and difficult to remove add ons just in case the car turns out to be a Lemon.
4) Mileage used prior to the first time the problem was reported. The higher the mileage at the time of a buyback, the higher the 'hit'. The most common formula used to determine a fee for miles used is Mileage used / 100,000 = Cost in cents per mile. If GM buys back my car today at say 13,000 miles, then based on the calculating formula I will be charged around $.13 cents per mile, times 13K miles = $1,690.00. So if you wait to have your car repurchased with even higher miles, the greater the money loss it would be. However, there have also been cases where consumers get awarded a waiver on mileage used.
In the end, one needs to calculate to see if having the car bought back or replaced makes much more financial sense than say keeping it or simply trading the vehicle and absorb the loss. Sometimes it makes much sense to cut your losses and have the car buyback or replaced. In other instances it makes more sense to accept an extended warranty offer and keep the car or simply trading it in for another vehicle. There are no 2 ways right about it.
The Bonnie is a 747 compared to the Grand Marquis...by the way...do you like the way the dashboard lights up at night in the Bonnie?
Does Impala have this lighting effect? Bonnie has red backlighting - is Impala red as well? Maybe Corvette uses this. If not, Chevy ought to pick up on this whenever they freshen the interior - it is AWESOME
Ken
Need to know if this ever happens to me. I have a 2001LS with only 800 miles.
Thanks
Pontiac and BMW (At least until recently) uses red backlit instruments...looks cool but some people say this is not too easy on the eyes. the red lighting for the instruments was used extensively in aviation for many years.
My favorite dashboard illumination aside from the Pontiac, is the one found in new Volkswagens...looks sooo cool. Its a very subdued blue light that washes the instruments, combined with red pointers (Red means action)..superb and one of the most original instrumentation layouts in any new cars.
But as often with many imports, power window, locks, etc switches are not illuminated at night. The cheapos and champs in poor interior illumination are the Japanese in my opinion.
Has your steering shaft pretty much held up? Have you had the need to repeat the repair?
I wonder why the paint undercoat is white? Seems to me, they should have primed it gray. If you take your car to a paint shop, don't they prime your car grey? It just seems odd that whenever paint is scraped off the car, you see white!
What's most common color where you live?
Ken
http://www.forbes.com/2001/01/26/0126flint.html
tpken: your Grand Marquis and my Vic must be close cousins... congrats on the Bonnie!
traitor... j/k!
I'm sure lovin the Bonnie. My Grand M has been super for the job it did - hauling the family around prior to the Suburban, pulling the boat back n forth to camp, cruising 50 miles to work n back every day and it's still got many miles left to go but looks sooooo old. Those opera lights are soooo stylish!
Ford knows they have a winner for the AARP set and a few of us family guys that like the smooth ride and need the power for towing.
Even so, they've messed with new parts too - using a plastic intake manifold that has been cracking and causing major engine failure (4.6L) without any prior warning. At least the guys with Impala cradle and steering issues can hear it coming.
Can you imagine a CEO riding in the back of his Lincoln limo - stranded on the side of the road waiting for AAA to tow him? heheheheh
Maybe that's why the W limo is a Cad - usually they alternate with Lincoln and it would have been Ford's turn this time but for some reason it's a Cadillac again.
Have a great day all - it's cold and gray looking here and we have 2 of 3 kids sick - should be a blast!
Ken
Sweetpolly, I posted your problem and also marked it "resolved." I also think the dealer's suggestion is highly suspect. If the octane was the case and your car runs great after being at the dealer, did they empty your gas tank and re-fill it with regular? In any case, it's great news that your car is ok again. Maybe it missed the dealer and wanted to visit. I swear this happens to all my stuff. Small irritating problems that dissapear once it is in the shop.
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/impala/
my biggest gripe with the Impala is FWD... good in winter, but I like the feel of RWD...
Ken
Ken
Good Luck!
Ken
Ken:: Nope I haven't seen the Bronze Mist Metallic in person, but the color does look gorgeous in the catalog...I'll be looking at the cars next week in hopes that I can find a LS wearing this beautiful color. It appears to be as exclusive as the year 2000 Auburn Nightmist Metallic, only much more beautiful, classy and rare for 2001. The interior is Neutral.
Shamino::: Fuel tank capacity should be 15 Gallons (Correct me if I am wrong). The first time the 'Low Fuel' message lights up in the 'Message Center' you should have about 2 to 3 gallons left in the tank reserve and a range of about 40 to 50 miles according to the trip computer. This depends on the actual MPG that the car is reporting at the time.
My service manager told me they currently have one Police cruiser Impala...he will let me take a peek under the car to check out the cradle hopefully sometime next week.
I am still very INTERESTED to receive responses of current 2001 Impala owners to see if they have also experienced any cradle/intermediate steering shaft problems. At this point it is very likely that I will be making the move to a 2001, but feedback is always greatly appreciated.
When I was a little kid I remember watching it dubbed to the Spanish language...I still watch the re-runs...in English of course.
Can you send us some pics of a new Y2K Impala LS optioned with the 'Police Package'??
Don't get me wrong, In despite of my 2 major problems in 11 months of ownership, I still believe the Impala is a great car and a superb value. The front end issues (Cradle/steering shaft) need to be addressed by GM and PRONTO if they don't want to further damage the good reputation the Impala and Montecarlo have enjoyed with the automotive press, consumer reports and the public in general.
The specific problems with my car are simply unacceptable. However, I have been, so far, very satisfied with GM's response and my dealer's treatment and genuine sense of customer service during the duration of these problems. The moment of 'truth' wil come this week when the GM Zone rep will make known his final decision on replacing my car for a new 2001 Impala LS. I still enjoy this car and look forward to continue my Impala ownership (Erase, and begin the count again) with a new car that I am sure will not give me another 2 or 3 major issues during the first few years of ownership. I have not yet lost my faith in GM and the Impala, so I am more than willing to give it a second full chance provided that GM and my dealer carry out with their promises and can ultimately go out of their way and completely regain my confidence in the product by making me truly satisfied. Everyhting right now is pointing in that direction, so I hope a FINAL resolution is reached very soon.
If GM truly begins to pay much more attention to certain quality control aspects of this car, it would make it almost 'just' perfect and would avoid the unnecessary headaches and frustrations (And money losses) that come whenever a new vehicle needs major repairs. The Steering shaft problem, my previous A/C compressor problem and the engine cradle situation are examples of some of the things that GM could have perfectly been able to avoid in order to make the product nearly flawless in execution. the day GM starts to pay attention to some quality control issues, they will save themselves big headaches as well as the customer.
C'mon GM, you could have avoided my 2 major repairs in 11 months of ownership if you had been a bit more careful. Now you are gonna have to replace my car for a 2001...guess which resolution will be more expensive in the end for GM...
*Platour
*Night_Owl
*2k_Impala_LS
It would be great if you can also take some good close ups of the engine cradle structure from your Police Cruiser fleet. Pics of the interior of the vehicles, engine compartment would be a good addition as well.
Based on your comments, it appears to be that the Impala Police vehicles have held up pretty well for you with minimal problems. Between 11K and 19K miles in a cruiser is almost the equivalent to 50K to 70K on a civilian car. Indeed, the Police cars are taking a good beating so it seems.
Question....how do the Police package Impalas measure up against the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptors? Likes and dislikes of both vehicles? Which one has exhibited better reliability and better maintenance costs? Do you think the Impala Police package has a good chance to be adopted by Law Enforcement agencies?
Thanks for your perspectives.
Also, you own a new 2001 Civilian Impala LS....How's the car has been so far? Any engine cradle or intermediate steering shaft problems? How's the leather interior holding up (I currently have the LS sport cloth seats which have hold up pretty well, but I am open to upgrade to leather also)...any noted differences between the 2000 and 2001 Impala civilian versions in these areas??
Last, I have read some of the 'Bumper Bash' test result from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety safety website (www.highwaysafety.org)and these valuations have shown that the current Impala front and rear bumpers are very weak and can easily be damaged (At great $$$$) on a typical fender bender encounter. The institute conduct two sets of tests to determine bumper strength..one is the "Reverse into a pole test" and the other one is the "Bumper Bash" test conducted at 5MPH. While the rest of the car is pretty much built like a tank, the bumpers don't seem to measure up well at this time. I am surprised to hear that the Police Package Impala vehicles don't have reinforced bumpers and are using the same identical units installed in civilian cars.
Next Tuesday night, the news program "Nightline MSNBC" will feature on their program a report on how the bumpers on the most popular new vehicles for sale on the market hold up against low speed fender benders. The ratings will show which cars have good bumpers (I suspect Volkswagens will pass with flying colors) and which ones have the weakest, most expensive to repair units....if they show the Impala bumper performance I don't think it will be a pretty sight either....but I recommend to watch Nightline next tuesday to see this interesting report.
Thanks again and keep enjoying those Impalas.
The center console is pretty easy to readjust, it just takes a few minutes. Inside the console compartment box, remove the bottom rubber pad. Right underneath it, you'll find 6 screws that hold the bulk of the entire rear console section and console box. There are 4 7mm black screws and two 'silver' 10mm screws located on the center on the center of the pod (again inside the console compartment). Re-tight these using a ratchet driver (I would strongly suggest using a ratchet driver for very small or tight spaces..I got one at Sears for this chore..paid $23.00). You'll be surprised on how 'loose' these screws are. Re-torque them carefully and after finished try to 'wiggle' the console side to side....it should not move and feel solid to even a slight amount of hand applied pressure.
Now, the front section of the console is held up by two black 10mm screws on each side of the console right under the joint where the console assembly meets the main center dashboard (Screws are located at the height of the accelerator pedal)its a bit of a stretch to get there but go ahead and re-torque these screws carefully. Do the 'wiggle' test again and it should be just perfect. I don't know if there are other screws located right under the black plastic ring the sorrounds the tranny shifter...may be since Joe has the Impala service manual he can find out that for us and how to get to those screws in the middle section of the console (If they exist).
Finally, apply some WD-40 or similar lubricant to the joints in the console to minimize 'plastic to plastic' rubbing noises and squeaks. After this your console should be as tight and good as news and again it takes only 10 to 15 minutes to eliminate any rattles from it.
Night_owl::: Suggestion...can you dedicate a section with photos as to how to re-adjust and eliminate rattles from the center console? Thanks!
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/impala/
Teo, just e-mail me or post the a/c info. Mileage, date, description of problem and fix. I can get the rest off of your other report. Also, what browser are you using and what program are you using for e-mail?
As soon as I get my digital camera back, I'll work on a console squeek page. Does anyone else have suggestions for how-to pages?
I have to admit to admit I did not follow every deatil of your clunk
adventure but am I correct in that the cradle was left untouched?