Isuzu Prices Paid and Buying Experience

ilit

Really!
Trooper 3.5l is just slightly larger than 3.2l and 3.2l had leaky valve/cover seals (but still reliable/durable ?!); then, Pathfinder must be superior because its 3.5l is even very slightly larger than its predecessor 3.3l which didn't have as many problems as 3.2l Trooper engine!

Wow, hat off Mr. know-it-all for your knowledge. Nissan has no future when it allies with Infiniti that markets luxury cars equipped with Nissan engines??? While Isuzu with bright future sold to GM, and its brands such as Rodeo and Trooper sold to Honda that kept the SLX (or Trooper) only 2 years! Anyway, I wonder how many Nissans moving on the road comparing to Isuzus! Please, don't go on streets to count then ... recount!!!

paisan

Infinity is only sold in the US. Everywhere else in the world, it is just Nissan. They segmented it for the US market. And if you don't read financial papers, no one wants to buy nissan... Those are facts.

For the $ the Trooper is a damn good vehicle. My '97 Rodeo went 120,000 miles on oil changes ever 3K miles, and no other work (other than 2 sets of brake pads and 1 set of tires) IMHO that's damn good. And I will promote them as such. Yep, they aren't the be-all-end all of vehicles, but for the $ they are damn good.

-mike

ilit

First, I agree FOR THE $ the Trooper is a damn good vehicle, that's just it, no more nor less. It's not a super vehicle, it's a compromise vehicle.

Other than that, I can't agree with you anything else.

A friend of mines owned a Rodeo with 60k mi., she sweared she wouldn't buy another Isuzu, so she doesn't promote them as such. In fact, she bought a 4Runner and wished me good luck with my Trooper!

I don't think you know how to read a financial statement, because if no one buys a Nissan, then it would no longer exist; thus you'd have no statement?

Besides, you don't know what the hell you're talking about! You said "Everywhere else in the world, it is just Nissan", and as I've seen Nissan in US too; therefore, Nissan vehicles are sold all over the world!

paisan

I was talking about Nissan as a company. No other auto-manufacturer sees it as being profitable, that is why no one has bought it yet (it's been on the market for a few years).

Nissan = Infinity...

For example outside the US, you have Nissan Pathfinders, no Infinity QX4s. If you want a QX4 outside the US, you buy the top of the line pathfinder.

I love nissans personally as a car manufacturer, I just don't feel you get as much bang for your buck in their trucks. I would love a skyline GTR, and the 90-93ish Maximas were awsome.

-mike

sdc2

I owned an 88 Pathfinder; it was an awsome vehicle that had next to nothing go wrong with it in 162K miles. However, the new Pathfinder is very different, most notably the unibody design. I'm not crazy about the long-term viability of unibodies here in the rust belt. Body-on-frame makes it much easier to replace rusty body panels.

The Nissan engine is derived from the old 300ZX engine, as was the old 3.0 in my 88. It has a very good reputation - I know mine never burned a drop of oil.

The torque numbers are not as impressive as the horsepower might indicate, that is why it isn't as quick 0 - 60 as you might think.

The Pathfinder has always been a solid vehicle, but for the respective prices you will pay, Trooper is a better value, IMO.

baddestbob1

I have been real close to jumping on Trooper model but have been considering other models, especially new Isuzu Axiom. Found a review with lots of pics on www.suv.com and I love this vehicle, gotta have it.

bluedevils

I thought Nissan's 3.3L engine, or the 3.0L it grew out of (is this correct?) was widely known to have a very serious problem that was quite common - head gasket seems to stick in my head. Is there no real truth to this claim? My understanding also is that the new 3.5L 6 in Pathfinder is not related much, if any, to the previous 3.3L (which is still in the Xterra).

sbcooke

The trooper is not a compromise vehicle. I think it really depends on what you are looking to get. The pathfinder is nice, I looked at Durango's, Jeeps (both Cherokee and JGC), 4runner and RX300, when I was shopping. Price is an important factor in buying any vehicle. The standard feature list of the trooper is much better than any of the others listed above, and there is a lot more room. The pathfinder and 4 runner, SUV's on pickup truck frame, very small inside. The Durango, well, it just wasn't what I was looking for. The RX300 offered no real off-road capability.

I have a Nissan altima, I have had no better a time with their dealerships than isuzu's, maybe even worse. I was able to find a good isuzu dealer after some looking.

It is not a super-truck, but it is pretty good, and has great offroad. ability (much better than many others). I am one of those people looking to augment my suspension (new OME shocks), not because the stock are bad, but because it is a fun project and will improve offroad. handling. And to that end, everyone in my family preferred the offroad. ride in the trooper compared to my brothers expedition? Still it is not a topic to lose one's cool over. I suggest you trade your trooper in for a pathfinder, Nissan has been on the financial ropes lately (check your facts) and they are offering similar deep cuts into sale prices. You can get a new pathfinder at similar deals to the trooper.

sdc2

You may be right about the 3.5, I'm not sure of it's heritage.

I have not heard of head gasket problems on the Nissan 3.0 - 3.3, perhaps you are thinking of Toyota. They had a ton of head gaskets go out on FourRunners.

paisan

on the maximas and nissans in general. But they are still good cars. Just not as much value as the current actual selling prices of the Troopers and Rodeos. Heck the X-terra is still selling @ or near MSRP IIRC.

-mike

ilit

Yah right!
Keep lying yourselves and dreaming your proposed Trooper, while watching Isuzu dumping its best model and launching the new Axiom!

gpm5

The trooper is a rugged, no compromise, go anywhere vehicle. The best deal on the planet that I know of for what I want. An SUV with lots of cargo space, back seat legroom, 215 hp, offroad capability that is awesome, and durability. I have had no problems with my '99 and plan to run it for 100,000+. I'll see the exploders in the junk yard by then.

paisan

To a list of people and the problems they've had over 100,000 miles on the Isuzu 3.2l engines...

http://www.outdoorwire.com/ubb/Forum68/HTML/002404.html

Thought you guys might be interested in it.

-mike

chrismiller1

I am thinking of upgrading to a 2001 limited from my current 2000 LS 2wd. That would require my selling my LS. It has 3,500 miles on it. Dragon Green with tan interior. Would ask around 22K for it. have put hood guard,aluminum steps,rear mat,and hitch on it. All factory items. It is very sharp and draws alot of comments. It really surprised me how much the ladies like it. You can reach me at chrismiller007@aol.com

Chris

paisan

That's a great price on an LS!

-mike

bluedevils

Price doesn't sound too bad, but I didn't think it sounded great. Does sound like a sharp-looking truck.

paisan

Didn't realize it was a 2wd. I'd say $19K for the 2wd would be outstanding.

-mike

gpm5

Torrington Hyundai Isuzu has a couple of 2000 S models and an LS model on the web that are worth checking out. Low miles. You can probably get a good deal.

http://www.carbuyers.com/ct/torringtonhyundai.cfm?TheDealer=538#Listings

bama_luke

I'll interject my Rodeo story. I just bought the car last September. I'd spent probably 6 months researching different small - midsize SUVs. For most of my shopping search I had the Xterra at the top of my list. Others that I was considering were Forrester, CRV, Sportage, and Escape. In fact, until I test drove most of these at the Edmunds.com roadshow in Atlanta, Rodeo was not on the list. Anyway, after the test drives, CRV, Sportage, and 1 other that was not on the original list were marked off, and Rodeo leaped into the #2 position. The Forrester was soon eliminated because of its price tag. The final three (in order of preference) were Xterra, Rodeo, and Escape. Escape was soon eliminated because the sales prices were expected to be MSRP +$3,000 to $5,000 AND the waiting list. Around this time, the PT Cruiser found it's way onto my list, and if there was more storage space behind the back seat, that's probably what I would have bought.

So basically it was down to the Xterra and Rodeo. The Rodeo was about $3,000 more and I was leaning heavily towards the Xterra. What turned me was the 10 year drivetrain warranty for the Rodeo and I was able to get a 0.0% apr. Don't know if I really got a deal or not, but I paid about $20,000 ($23,000 and change total cost) at 0.0%.

Now, 5 months later, I wouldn't trade the Rodeo for any of the others I looked at.

Luke

PS - Another factor was my dad's experience with his Trooper. It's only 4 or 5 years old, but it has been trouble free.

gpm5

but switched to the trooper for the additional space. I also thought about the tribute/escape, pathfinder, and durango but quickly eliminated all of those. The offroad abilities of the Isuzus put the others out of the running.

islander21

Well, its been 5 weeks since I bought the 2000 Trooper S, unfortunately I took it back to the place I bought it from for some simple maintenance and they've had it for the better part of the last 2 weeks - almost as much as I've driven it. As soon as I get my vehicle back I will post my review of Carmax's Service Department (there's an oxymoron somewhere in there). I'll name names, locations and will describe the situation as succintly as possible so that you folks out there don't make the same mistakes I made and, thus, get inconvenienced like I did.

Islander

gpm5

sorry to hear that--2 weeks for routine maintenance--a major problem or a screw-up?

sdc2

The three times I have attempted to schedule service around here (Minneapolis-St. Paul) the dealers all have been 1.5 to 2 weeks out. I think this is not very acceptable, but what can I do? (rhetorical question)

paisan

But that is the same for Chevy, Chrysler, Honda, etc. Almost none of the dealers around here have anything less than a 2 week wait.

-mike

sdc2

Hmmm, well I know I can get in much quicker for Oldsmobile service at the same dealer that does Isuzu near me...

dr1000

Be sure to factor-in the types of maintenance required when you think you're getting a good deal. My 96 trooper had a good price, but I should have thought of the big maintenance bills (not repair bills) that arise. I have never had a repair bill for this truck. The issue is maintenance!

This week, it's time for the 60k service, including the stupid timing belt. The quote is $832 at a CT Isuzu dealer for a specific list of what I want done: all belts, fuel filter, trans. and transfer case fluids, and spark plugs. The dealer included a new $175 water pump in that price, "strongly suggesting" replacing the water pump at 60K because "the new belt usually over-stresses the old pump and it's easy to replace the pump while the engine covers and belt are off." (His words, not mine.) I may skip the water pump.

My next car will have an internal timing chain that should last the life of the vehicle.

Detroit gave us 'repairs' more than 'maintenance' and if nothing broke, the car never went in for a "major service." People went for years without having to do much to a car. When did expensive scheduled maintenance creep into the US marketing model and when did we start accepting big maintenance bills, hoping to avoid repairs that may be needed anyway? I wonder who spends more: the person who goes by the book or the person who limits maintenance to key items and fixes what needs to be fixed.

islander21

I don't mind waiting a couple of weeks for an appointment and it's not that the repairs were major. They just kept the car as a "matter of policy" while awaiting a part even though they had no idea when the darn thing would arrive, yet did no other work to the car in the meantime. Here's the deal:

Problems:
1- My Trooper's Power Mode light was always on.
2- The silver/gray fender flare paint was splotched or chemically damaged ("looks like Armor All stains, it'll come off easy", the detailer said the day I took possession of my car.)
3- There was a fairly deep groove in the left disc brake rotor, too deep for a 10K mile vehicle, IMHO.

I made an appointment to drop the Trooper off at Carmax (Hwy 436 in Orlando, Florida) by noon 2/7/01. A gentleman named Shawn (sp) who turned out to be the Service Manager took down my info. He also gave me a loaner 1996 Nissan 200SX with 115K miles, nice of them to do that, but too bad it died 5 days later after sporadically just shutting off on its own. I drove a Saturn loaner after that without problems.

They took the car to a local Isuzu Dealer and it turns out the Power Mode switch needed replacing (warranty item), the dealer I had taken it to previously gave me some sad story about pressure washing messing up the sensor, therefore not under warranty. According to Shawn, the brakes were fine and there was no maintenance needed. I wonder if their inspection included removing the pads to check for foreign matter on them as the cause for the groove. He also tells me they did rotate and balance the tires to take care of a "noise" problem (?????) and that they would also have to "figure out" what to do with the damaged paint on the flares.

Here's where Carmax Service drops the ball: They sent the car to a local Isuzu dealer for the power mode switch repair AND LEFT IT THERE WHILE THE PART GOT DELIVERED without knowing when the part would arrive. How do I know that? I called the dealer last Monday and THEY did not know when the part would arrive, let alone when they would be able to install it. Carmax, though, told me the car would be ready by last Wednesday, today is Tuesday of the FOLLOWING WEEK!

Shawn insisted that it was sound business practice to complete all mechanical repairs before moving to the cosmetic ones. Good strategy, I told him. But in this case - since they had no idea when the part would arrive and since there is no damage being done to the transmission - just get the car back from the dealer, paint the flares and work on the brakes, if needed. THEN send the car back to install the part when it gets in. The man did not get it. Was I asking for too much or just being common-sensical? Until last Thursday he insisted that once the switch was replaced and he got the car back from the dealer he would complete the other work. I had to raise my voice and tell him to get the car back from the dealer and take care o the other issues.

Yesterday I called Shawn again (his boss was not available) and asked him when would I get my Trooper back and he said they were STILL determining what to do about the flares/paint. That was it as far as I was concerned, they basically had had the car for almost two weeks and it was obvious that no one had addressed that issue. I told him I'd be there in a couple of hours to pick up the car, ready or not. No sooner had I hung up the phone I got a call back from Shawn saying the decision had been made to paint the flares. Duh. I wonder if it was common sense kicking in or mere coincidence that I mentioned bad Edmunds.com/ITOG website reviews coming regardless of the outcome.

Here you have it Shawn: you are one dense individual. They call it customer service for a reason. I can smell some flames headed this way so let me just say I'm not exempt from fault here, this is what I did wrong:

1- I assumed that a great car buying experience at Carmax (kudos to Dana) would equate to an adequate Service Dept. experience. Horrid assumption in my case.
2- MOST IMPORTANTLY, I should have insisted that all cosmetic and mechanical repairs get done BEFORE I took delivery of the car.
3- I assumed that Shawn, as a Service Manger, had a clue. Managerially speaking he doesn't. He took the 'customer' out of Customer Service. I also escalated to his boss too late in the game.

Update: I got a call from Carmax mid-day today announcing that my car was ready to go. I returned their loaner and picked up the Trooper. The flares look fine and the Power Mode switch works as advertised. I'll be inspecting the brakes this week-end along with installing the Rancho 9000s I ordered.

Thanks to the folks at McNamara Isuzu for their help - they get my business from now on. Courtesy Isuzu in Longwood gave me the sad story about the switch sensor "probably" being damaged during an engine pressure washing thus not being covered under warranty. That's the same dealership where I had my departed Suzuki Sidekick serviced over the last 5 years. What a sham, er shame.

Folks, this is mostly my fault, but to emphasize the point: whne buying a car make sure your dealer takes care of all the issues BEFORE you take delivery of your car and if not, have them put all repair orders in writing! Dang, this is a really long post. Shoot me now, please.

paisan

Carmax is owned by the same people who own Circuit City. As far as I'm concerned they are a "self-serve" type of place like circuit city who doesn't pay their employees well and lives off of paying em min. wage. I had a good experience at a carmax in MD trading in a car, but wouldn't trust em to a new/used car purchase. (knowing how much they gave my buddy for his car) I know they need to make that back somewhere.

Glad to hear the Isuzu dealers were actually helpful.

Good pointers for people in the market for a vehicle as well.

-mike

paisan

All cars nowadays (american or not) require a higher level of preventive maintenance. My 00 Trooper has a chain so you don't have to worry about that. Also I've heard that if you look in the owner's manual, there is a description of the 60K maintenance and should be able to have a mechanic do it cheaper. Also how much is your time worth? For me to be stuck in east jabbip with a non working vehicle is not good. I rather spend $700 every 60K than be stuck somewhere from a tranny failure or timing belt failure.

-mike

islander21

Points well taken, Mike. On an additonal aside: Carmax did a nice job detailing the vehicle for me, but not a perfect one. I keep finding expended bullet casings in the rear crevices and under the rugs! Being originally a Texas car, I'm not surprised, but I just wonder...

paisan

When you find crack vials.... Then the gun casings could be representative of a gun-battle...



-mike

bluedevils

You were just being logical, practical, common-sensical. Unfortunately dealer service is not usually based on those principles. Nor does it typically contain much "customer service." My impression is that many times the dealer and its employees are encouraged/required by policy to take actions that are not in the best interest of their customers. By the way, most of the fault does not lie with you, it lies with them.

Sorry to hear about your experiences. Unfortunately I think they are all too common. In my experience at mostly non-Isuzu dealers, the service manager is no more interested in solving problems and doing things right than the regular service advisors.

You should have made the dealer put it in writing about the fender flares BEFORE delivery, but you chose to take someone's word for it. I would have done the same thing. It's sad to think that you have to do things like get it in writing just to make sure you don't get screwed, but it happens all the time. Your situation was a particularly good example of poor dealer treatment.

I enjoyed reading your post.

bluedevils

You make some very good points. It does seem expensive to maintain a Trooper to the letter of the owners manual's recommended maintenance schedule (or even moreso, if you let the dealer do additional work that IT recommends), whether it's serviced at a dealer or an independent shop.

I wonder if it's really much more expensive than similar SUVs, though.

I feel that I maintain my 1998 Trooper very well, but there are things in the recommended maintenance that I don't even really consider doing. I've changed the coolant, swapped the air filter, rotated the tires 4-5 times, and changed the TOD fluid twice in 42k miles. Other than oil changes that's about it. In the future I plan to replace additional fluids (axles), possibly repack wheel bearings, etc.

I feel that I've done the important stuff and am taking good care of my truck at a very reasonable cost.

sdc2

Bluedevils - I am curious why have you replaced your TOD fluid? The maintenance schedule for my 99 does not indicate TOD fluid replacement is necessary at all.

Paisan - Are you sure about your 00 having a timing chain? I guess this would surprise me on a DOHC engine...I think my 99 has a 100K timing belt change interval.

Islander21 - I would wait until your second timing belt change to replace the water pump. It should last 120K. Anyway, the dealers reasoning sounds like BS to me...I'm not even sure the timing belt can "stress" the water pump, I thought the water pump was driven by the accessory belt ("fan belt"), not the timing belt.

paisan

Though i may have confoosed the 100K timing belt change interval with a timing chain. Spekaing of timing belts does anyone know if the timing belt lets go on the DOHC 3.5 if it will cause engine damage? If it doesn't I just assume let it go til it breaks.

-mike

sdc2

when the timing belt breaks you are done, it's tow truck time...and you know it's not going to happen at a convenient time!

Not sure if the 3.5L is an "interference" engine, seems I have heard it both ways...

paisan

Of course it will happen at the most in-opportune time possible.

-mike

gpm5

The TOD fluid--I assume this is different from the transmission and the transfer case fluid. Where exactly is the TOD unit--is that attached to the transmission or part of the transfer case?

gpm5

Any experiences on how this AWD (viscous coupling center diff) compares to the trooper's TOD? I am looking at van replacement vehicles.

paisan

The TOD unit is the Transfer Case. TOD is the type of transfer case that is used.

-mike

bluedevils

I'll post a response on this in the Maintenance & Repair topic, where it seems more appropriate.

urchin34

The after market DC changer I added to my Rodeo was not working properly and neither the installer nor the dealer could trace the problem. Royal Isuzu in Arizona ended up replacing it with in dash changer at no cost to me. Service could not be better. Other problems to date (12,000 miles) - none.

deimos

We got our '99 Rodeo S V6 4WD, manual trany for 29K CAN (plus tax) in Dec '99...

In the same price we've got some options from the LS model, except the cruise control, power windows/locks and the CD...
(But we got the fog lights, the alarm, the brush guard, bug deflector and tail garnishes from the LS model...)

At the time the LS was 34K CAN and we didn't really care about the cruise control and the power windows/locks (We've recently put a Sony CD head unit for less then $200 )...

I was happy to have LSD, 4 wheel disc brakes and ABS, skid plates, shift on the fly 4WHi and 4WLo as well; a mid-size SUV, for the price of a CRV or a Suzuki Grand Vitara(small and not good for off-roading)!

In '99 the Pathfinder had a pitfull engine(even the wife notice how much would rev and how noise and scary it was to get to 80 km/h), a lot of tacky accessories on the Canadian Chilkoot edition, no 4 wheel disc brakes, arrogant dealers(our Isuzu dealer is actually a Saturn-Saab-Isuzu and they were always nice to interact with)...

The 4Runner was too expensive for a V6, so was the Grand Cherokee(no skid plates either)... BTW we didn't trust neither Ford nor Chrysler for that matter...:)
So the '99 Rodeo seemed the best value for the money, imo...

Imagine my surprise today when seeing that the new Rodeos LS (or LSE) have base price of 42K CAN!!

Let's see(please correct me if I'm wrong) what do they have new from the '99 LS?
- leather trim
- intelligent suspension
- moonroof(Didn't the '99 LS have it as well? Anyhow I don't want it, I'd rather have more head room and that's the only plus for the Pathinder)

In '99 I didn't understand why people weren't buying the S V6 4WD Rodeos for that great price( 29K CAN), but if I were to buy now, it would be a much difficult decision to fork 42K CAN for the new LSE!

I don't think that I'll be upgrading my Rodeo in the near future! ... On the other hand I'm not looking forward to the Mazda aka Ford SUV etc...

BTW Mitsubishi has plans to expand the dealership network to Canada(probably the Montero as well)...

tarman

Speaking from experience, don't ever put off changing your timing belt when the time comes. Last year, my '90 Toyota Corolla died on the freeway when the second timing belt gave out at 123k miles (just 3k miles past when I should have changed it). I never could find a straight answer on whether the 1.8L engine was an "interference" engine or not, but the bottom line was that I had to get a valve job that cost me over a grand to repair. The poor car never ran the same after the valve job (silver lining--it forced me into the new car market--I ended up leasing an Audi A4--great car). I would recommend changing the water pump at the same time for no other reason than it will save you money. From what I remember, the part itself is only about $20--the rest of the price tag for replacing the water pump is labor. Since the mechanic has already done the same labor taking apart the engine to get at the timing belt, it makes sense to replace the water pump at the same time (even if the pump is working just fine). Trust me, you will pull your hair out if you have to pay for the labor in replacing the water pump a couple of months later...

From what I've seen on the internet, I believe both the 3.2L and 3.5L are not interference engines. But why risk a total breakdown when you least expect it?

Just my .02 cents

darionlow

I'd like to buy a Trooper this year, looking to buy in maybe 2 months or so. Anyone know of a good dealer in Northern Californa - specifically Bay Area? I am probably going to wait for the big 2500 rebate to come back though. Has anyone heard the dates on when those are coming back?
Thanks,
Darion

paisan

I think the 2001s already have a rebate, not sure how much $ though, It may only be $1500 or $2K right now.

-mike

nato1

Does anyone remember the Joe Isuzu commercials? I do. I am glad to see he is back in the commercials. Latest ad is 0.0% finacing on '01 rodeos (northeast).

wlbrown9

I found the Gate Rubber guide..it shows the 1998

3.5L as an interference enging...75,000 mile replacement recommendation...the 3.2L Trooper engine show to be non-interference.

http://www.gates.com/pdf/tbelt.pdf

This has most engines with timing belts...

darionlow

Hmm, strange, there are no rebates going on right now, at least in the bay area - I checked Isuzu's website and also have been watching the dealer ads. Guess I'll keep waiting....
Thanks!

raydahs

Isuzu just ended a rebate/incentive program on 2-28, below is an article I found in Edmunds News:

February U.S. auto sales
Source: Associated Press
Publication date: 2001-03-02

February 2001 car and light truck sales in the United States by the major automakers. The table compares sales in February 2001 with sales in February 2000, and year-to-date totals for the two years.

Isuzu Month

Truck: 6,581 vs. 8,302, down -17%

Truck: 11,397 vs. 15,046, down -24% Year-to-date

Don't let the numbers discourage you, this truck is nice!
Hang in there, your bound to get one heck of a deal.

Good Luck!