And that was one of the MOST on-topic posts in this thread over the past 24 hours.... Sheesh. I took most of yesterday off for a visit from my 7-yr-old nephew (last seen in 2007!) and only hit the hot spots here... who would've thought that a discussion about a sedan, which few members have actually seen in person, much less driven, would be a problem? The answer is: not me.
Let's stick to talking about the Chevy Cruze, please. Most of you know where to find other discussions relevant to the off-topic conversation that's been occurring here, so please head that way if you wish to continue.
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A reporter is interested in talking with owners of the Chevy Cruze who are also parents. If you are interested in commenting on your experience, please reply to pr@edmunds.com no later than Saturday, November 20, 2010 and include your city and state of residence, the model year of your vehicle and the age of your child/ren.
Thanks for your consideration, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds Inc.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
Once the Sonata transmission line is up in Alabama, the NA content will be over 50%.
The Sonata was designed in California.
The people dissing the 2011 as tinny have obviously never driven one. The 2011 is new from the ground up, and solid as a rock, as every single review has noted. If GM enthusiasts want a scare, go test drive one. The Malibu just got a beat down, and the Cruze, being nearly as expensive as the Sonata, is doomed to sub-par sales.
Cruze away. GM is still one step behind the competition in almost every market segment, but that is an improvement over the five steps behind they were a few years ago.
From elsewhere on Edmunds:
Hyundai Sonata Speeds to Top of Sales Charts; Nudges Honda Accord Among Midsizers September 07, 2010
By Michelle Krebs
Hyundai Sonata 2011.jpg The Hyundai Sonata is racing to the top of U.S. sales charts.
In August, Sonata grabbed third place among midsize cars for the third time since it was vastly redesigned earlier this year as a 2011 model; it is nudging the rear bumper of the Honda Accord.
The Toyota Camry remained in first place in sales among midsize sedans, but the Sonata easily overtook Nissan Altima in August; it already had passed by the Chevrolet Malibu and Ford Fusion.
Overall, the Sonata has soared to sixth place among all vehicles sold in the United States -- it's highest ranking ever. It has been No. 1 for 22 of the past 24 weeks for shopping consideration among consumers visiting Edmunds.com.
And Hyundai has been selling only one version of the Sonata; hybrid and turbo models are upcoming.
August's Third Among Midsizers
In August, Hyundai sold 21,399 Sonatas, which allowed it to roar past the Nissan Altima to take third place among midsize sedans and close in on the Honda Accord, which was second behind the Toyota Camry. In August, Hyundai sold only 3,749 Sonatas fewer than Honda did the Accord.
The Cruze is only marginally competing with the Sonata. Compact sedans and mid sizers might look the 'same" on paper, but they really don't compete that much. Most people want one or the other for size/functionality reasons.
I have a 2005 Accord, which I consider plenty big if not bigger than needed. The 2010 is way to large for my tastes, and the Cruze is pretty much just right. Heck, it is only about 8" shorter than my Accord, and probably as big as the one from a couple generations ago.
You are correct that prices could overlap, and some people may move up market for that reason (bigger size/same $). But normally, you get a choice of loaded small vs. stripper big.
Maybe the Sonata price point skews that, but again, many people don't want to supersize even if it doesn't cost much.
At least within a "family", you can compare easily. Honda, a great example. You could get a base Accord (DX) for the same price as a Civic EX (or about that). But, you give up the alloys, moonroof, etc. And many people want all the toys.
So, a 22.8K cruze has at least a moonroof that a Sonata GLS does not have. And the trunk is just about as big.
Now, when the Elantra shows up in a couple months, that will be a true knife fight!
You may be right about 2011 Sonata. The last one I drove was a 2009 and while it was okay, the NVH was like an Excel.
I agree few people will cross shop a big car like the Sonata (EPA Large Car) with a Cruze. The Elantra is the Cruze's competition. Hyundai's dealer network bothers me too. I'm 35 miles from a Hyundai/Kia dealer and 2 miles from a Chevy dealer and while styling is subjective, I appreciate the Cruze's understated elegance. The Hyundai Sonata (and upcoming Elantra) look like somebody melted the grille.
Chevrolet announced today that a manual transmission will be made available on all Cruze models with the 1.4T engine. This includes the LT and LTZ models.
I"m confused. Why are you posting on the Cruze thread? All you do is tell everybody what a fantastic car you think the Sonata is and dis GM. I know you are looking to buy a Sonata but are you going to all the GM car threads and doing the same thing? Just curious because it makes no sense at all.
I know a lot of people that buy Hyundais exhibit a slight inferiority complex and have to constantly bombard everyone with how great Hyundais are. I hope you're not one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think the Sonata is a fine car but why blow your horn on this thread so much. Do you consider yourself some sort of mesiah and feel you have to convert the masses to Hyundai and away from GM?
The Sonata was sold in Korea before the US so I doubt it was designed in California- I have never heard that before.
I am well versed in the success of the Sonata and its a nice car but the idea that its head and shoulders above the Cruze is nonsense. If anything it sounds like the Cruze is actually as refined, if not more refined. I've been in both cars and the Cruze LTZs interior is actually nicer than the Sonata's interior. The Sonata's interior LOOKS nice, but in person its about on par with the Camry. The design details and the feel of the switchgear are not premium at all. It's perfectly suitable for the class however.
Your statements about GM's vehicles are out of line with reality and its apparent you wouldnt ever consider the Cruze so I don't understand why you are commenting here. The Cruze is the latest in a long list of very competitive vehicles from GM. You consider the Enclave, Malibu, CTS, Camaro, Equinox, etc. several steps behind the competition?
I've noticed that people who like the Sonata want EVERYONE to declare it the best in class. It's like they can't accept that there are numerous compelling choices in this price class. THe fact that the Sonata is a nice car for the money doesn't diminish the Cruze in any way. I for one, am not a huge fan of the Sonata's styling. Its more interesting than Camry and Accord for sure but its not really my cup of tea. When I sat in the car I found rear seat room (leg and head) to be merely adequate even though its supposedly an EPA large car.
Anyone who wishes to continue comparing the Sonata with the Cruze may do so by starting a new discussion on that topic. It's really not helpful here, and it clutters up this discussion for members seeking information on the Cruze only.
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The Sonata was designed at Hyundai's California design studios. That's the last I'll say about the Hyundai.
Yes, I consider your list of GM vehicles to be several steps behind the competition, and the market agrees.
Enclave - Are you kidding me? A Traverse with 150 lb of chrome can't hold a candle to the Lexus or Acura or Land Rover's it attempts to compete with. Look at the specs, look at the SALES. I live in Colorado, which is luxury SUV heaven, and I've only seen two Enclaves, ever.
Malibu - There was a brief moment when the Malibu had a shot. Then the new Accord, new Altima, new Sonata came out. Again, look at the specs and look at the SALES. The market has voted. Fourth in sales in its class, despite having more dealers than any of the others.
CTS - I like the CTS. This is the only GM car besides the Corvette that actually ranks in the top three in its segment. But again, sales are lacking, because the competition is so strong. You can't look at the CTS on its own, you have to look at the BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti competition. The CTS-V is in a class of its own, but when the car is $65K, there is A LOT of competition. I'd take a CTS-V wagon in a heartbeat for $35K, but $65K? The CTS is priced the same as similarly spec'd competition, but one of the big strikes against any Cadillac is resale, and you're flushing $20K the moment you drive off the lot.
Camaro - Yawn. Like the Malibu, there was a brief moment where the Camaro had a shot. Then Ford upped the ante. Every head to head comparison chooses the 2011 Mustang over the Camaro, whether the comparison is V8 or V6, power or handling. And in styling, both the Mustang and Challenger kill it. The Camaro exterior is a terribly confused mishmash and the interior is a faux-retro abomination. Why GM decided to emulate the interior of the late-60's Camaro, one of the WORST interiors ever, is beyond me, and apparently beyond buyers, since after the initial wow wore off, sales have cratered.
Equinox - The Kia Sorento just topped the Equinox in sales. Kia. How many Kia dealers are there? Are you kidding me? And CR-V long ago left the Equinox in the dust. So again, they tried, but despite the huge dealer network, the Equinox content has fallen short except in the midwest where driving consists of getting on the highway and turning on the cruise control, which by all reports works fine in the Equinox.
The Cruze is destined to the same fate as the cars above. It is a good effort FOR GENERAL MOTORS. Unfortunately, it is way overpriced. The people looking for cheap transportation can get a Scion or Yaris or Versa or a Fit for less. Once you get to Cruze dollars, the number of options expands, and you don't have to get a tiny car.
If you can get a car rated as full-sized that gets 35mpg highway, why bother with a Cruze that gets the EXACT same mileage ratings for the same price? And the vaunted 1.4L turbo gets a whole 1 mpg better, while pushing the MSRP into mid-sized category.
Again, GM continually improves, but the competition improves at an even faster rate. GM really needs to figure out how to look at the competition's NEXT vehicle, and get their vehicle in that segment out at the same time, but BETTER. Right now, they seem to target the competition's current vehicle and aim for that, then by the time they deliver the competition has move up a notch or two.
Since the CRUZE is a new model, no historical data, I'm concerned about the resale value of the vehicle 4-5 years down the road. I know GM is building better vehicles these days than they did 10 years ago but resale has always been a problem for them, especially the Malibu, Impala, Cobalt and all their 4 door sedans. I am more a fan of leasing than buying but it seems like Vehicle Manufacturers spend so much money advesting/marketing their NEW offerings, they don't offer any attractive lease offers until sales start to decline. Does anyone know what lease offers GM has planned for the CRUZE in the near future (next 6 months)?
I can't get my mind around why the excuse is often "resale value." Or there's no historical data?
The ugly current civic has no data. The next civic has no data.
The toyotas had lots of data and look what toyota got caught doing with nonreporting of events to NHTSA for what was it 7 years? So how's the confidence in toyota now? I wouldn't buy a used one.
Somehow people have gotten resale in their heads as an important characteristic of a car. It's a car; not an investment. If you only buy the car everyone wants used, you've got an Enron.
As I check a local Chevrolet dealer that usually has good used cars, I see year old Cobalts asking more than they asked for year old Cobalts a year back. It's my feeliing that my Cobalt is only depreciating slowly based on their pricing.
But when I buy a car, I buy it to drive and enjoy. I don't buy it to sell it two years later.
No one knows what's coming in the future. I'd go test drive and talk to a salesman.
if you are planning to trade in 2-3 years anyway, might as well just lease instead. If you are keeping long term, resale becomes less of an issue.
I am with you though. I buy a car that fits my needs, and that I like and enjoy driving. Resale, and to some extent expected reliability, is not at the top of the list for deciding what to get.
I would buy a VW over a Toyota most likely. And I would rather poke out my eyes with a sharp stick than drive a Corolla every day for the next 5+ years.
Good grief, Scott, there's nothing worse than opinions espoused as solid facts.
I read less than two weeks ago, that the Equinox was the vehicle among ALL vehicles now being sold, that is in dealer inventory the least amount of time. Try and get a "deal" on one. Can't be done!
You also stated, flatly and matter-of-factly, a few days back that "...most (parts content) of the Sonata is from this country."
Forty-one percent is "most"?!
Please provide links to items you show as facts.
Incidentally, the Camaro is still outselling the Mustang, now. Look online anyplace. It won't take long.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
is that common among cars? There are 2 or 3 completely new models per year from the collective 7 or 8 midsize car makers. No, it couldn't be common. Most new releases are misses and the old reliable still stands atop the heap? Not likely. To label GM as having a brief moment is to say they did great. Behind the scenes they are already working on the next great release. Is Cruze already judged to not have a shot at the top spot in it's class? My BIL paid more for a Corolla than I paid for a Malibu 2 yrs later. Hard to believe price is already an issue with the Cruze. Camaros are popular here in the Midwest in spite of their snowy weather handling. I don't see any truthfulness in scottl's post after line 1. It is all merely opinion.
35 mpg in a Sonata and 35 mpg hwy in the Cruze? The Sonata works wonders in mpgs and the S. Korean economy. What's the unemployment rate in your state?
legacy accord fusion altima camry malibu passat sonata mazda6 did I forget any? hybrid and non hybrid versions new models every 3-5 years for each one to shine briefly is to do great.
35 mpg in Sonata? not representative of anything real. At 3000 miles, my new 4 cyl is finally matching my 8 yr old supercharged V6 in commute mileage at about 27.5 mpg. This equal mileage actual result is for a rated at 34 hwy 4 cyl compared to rated at 27 V6. There is not much mpg gain in shrinking the car or the engine. A lot of space and comfort is given up for marginal gains in efficiency in day to day driving. Only at the rare extremes does the difference grow. Like long trips, where even the SC3.8 still topped 30 and the Malibu might hit 32 or 33, but with less space, cargo, and weight.
Cruze is 2 more mpg from 1.4Turbo than my 2.5 L4 Malibu. Cruze is rated as a midsize with 3102 lbs weight as a 1LT with 6A. Saves 350 lbs over Malibu. I suspect you only need to go back a gen or 2 to get an Accord under 3100 lbs with a 4. The Cruze is $5k less MSRP than Malibu for similar equipped versions. Seems reasonable. I don't recall the Malibu to Cobalt difference as more than that.
89% of Cobalt buyers would not repeat. Will the Cruze improve on that? By a landslide would be my Opinion.
Sonata is 3199 lbs with 1000cc bigger engine. Only 97 lbs heavier than the Cruze and it gets lower mileage? Maybe wonders do cease?
You can't argue with a GM basher. Don't try. Honda and Toyota had their fall from grace and we don't need to reiterate that here. Hyundai/Kia are coming on strong for sure but their limited dealer network hurts badly. Most of the country doesn't have Kia or Hyundai within 30 miles of them.
The Equinox/Terrain problem is availability. GM is selling every one they can build right now. The Cruze is step in the right direction that should sell 20,000/units a month. Time will tell. The LaCrosse is selling very well also. GM is doing some good things and the Cruze should help the cause.
P.S. The Cruze is far from "tiny". It's one of the largest vehicles in it's class.
I currently drive a Honda Accord and am very interested in the Cruze, especially since it now looks like all trims will have an available manual transmission (a must have for me).
My Accord is rated 31 mpg highway and my lifetime average is 34.7 mpg with dozens of tanks over 40 mpg. This is in no small part to the MT and Chevy is doing well to offer it on all trims. It costs them nothing to do so if it is on one trim already. I expect I would average over 40 mpg with a Cruze.
Here are some of the things I like in no particular order.
Modern electronics. Bluetooth, usb etc. available and at a reasonable price on all models. Honda wants to put you in a top of the line model for this.
Size - considerably larger than a Corolla or Civic. About the same size as a gen 6 Accord (1999-2002). I think the current Accord is too large and the civic is too small. The Cruze is just right.
MPG. The Eco gets 40 mpg highway - way better than a Sonata or whatever else.
I want a nice well appointed car with room for 4, excellent mpg and a stick shift. Cruze fits the bill. Not much else (if anything) does.
I have never bought an American car in 30 years of ownership, but I may break that trend.
Of course if they really wanted to seal the deal they would make it a station wagon. Too bad this country is so anti efficiency and only likes wagons if they are tall and have 4wd and an acronym like SUV.
"35 mpg in Sonata? not representative of anything real. "
You are correct if you are talking about the MT6 version of the 2011 Sonata, since owners are reporting 37+ mpg highway with the MT. Real, measured MPG.
Really, go read any of the reviews or forums about the Sonata. The car easily gets 35mpg on the highway, due to the efficiency of the 2.4L DI engine, the 6-speed trans and the .27 drag coefficient.
Camaro is barely outselling the 2010 Mustang, but that is to be expected, since everyone knew the 2011 Mustang was coming out with the new engines. Camaro sales have dropped every single month since the 2011 Mustang became available, and the Mustang is on the upswing. Mustang for 2011 will top Camaro sales easily.
The Sonata will be 51% NA content once their transmission line comes on before the end of the year.
Somehow people have gotten resale in their heads as an important characteristic of a car. It's a car; not an investment. If you only buy the car everyone wants used, you've got an Enron.
...
But when I buy a car, I buy it to drive and enjoy. I don't buy it to sell it two years later.
I quite agree.
Anyone buying a general-production automobile as an investment really should get some professional investment advice.
Back in the 60's & 70's, at least in the Southeast, vinyl seating surfaces were just about all you could find in the showrooms. I always had to search for (and sometimes, special order) cloth interiors. The dealer's sales folks would always stress "The resale value is higher with vinyl", and I would counter with "I'm buying the car to drive... not to sell. That's YOUR job".
Please, don't bother arguing with this guy. He appears to be one of a legion of Hyundai Sonata trolls that have overrun automotive message boards everywhere proselytizing about how wonderful it is. They truly seem to be on every board I frequent. It is really quite strange.
Put me in the camp of preferring a 5 door. I would love a wagon version of this,but the 5 door is still a nice option. Assuming you can actually see out the back (an issue with some of the overstyled hatchbacks these days).
Well put priggly. Thank you for taking the time to write this up as, I feel sure, it expresses many people's thoughts quite well.
It's safe bet that a Cruze model other than the 4-door sedan will be offered in the future. It might a 5-door hatchback, or maybe even a coupe, but something other than the sedan is very likely to be offered by 2012.
FWIW... I've owned a number of new cars since I first began driving in 1964. Triumph, Simca, Volvo, Ford, Buick, Nissan, Honda, Chevrolet, Toyota, SAAB, Mitsubishi, Mercury, Dodge, Chevrolet-again, and Hyundai - in chronological order. I'd give the Cruze a chance for sure, if it's every bit as good as the 2006 Hyundai Elantra we purchased in December 2005. The Elantra was flawless when delivered from the dealer, and still is after nearly 5 years, and 72K miles. It's the first new car I ever purchased that was totally glitch free when delivered, and after 5 years of ownership. I can't say that about the Honda, Nissan, or Toyota, or any other of the vehicles I've bought new. This is a objective perspective of vehicle ownership of the above makes over a period of 46 years.
Glad you've had good luck with your 2006 Elantra. I've owned a number of different makes in my 30 years of driving (I was born in 1964). In order: Buick Regal, Honda Civic, Mercury Lynx, Mercury Cougar, Chrysler Le Baron, Honda Accord, Ford Probe, Ford F-150, Honda Accord, Audi A4, Mazda Protege, Chevrolet Malibu, Buick Lucerne (currently).
I've been driving GM products (the '04 Malibu and now '06 Lucerne) since the summer of 2005 and average about 20,000 miles/year. The Malibu and Lucerne have been absolutely flawless. Nothing but oil changes and my Lucerne is tight as a drum with 72,000 miles on the clock. I average 24mpg in the Lucerne I drive now with the 3800 V6 and conservative driving. I don't need a full-size car however and that's why the Cruze is high on my list. It's got NVH down to a science (a la Buick's Quiet-Tuning) and that's what I like. The Cruze also offers 60-series rubber on the LT with sweet cast aluminum wheels that look good and should ride very well for a small car.
Econobox will be a thing of the past in America very soon when it comes to compact cars. I happy that the Cruze is leading the way.
how can a guy with the screen handle of "dodgeman" never have owned a dodge? That would be like me not knowing how to drive a stick!
j/k here.
You do raise a good point (well, to me). 60 series tires is fine on a "normal" family type car. the proliferation of low profile rubber, even on eco cars, is silly. 45 series tires that aren't even that wide (like 215s) are just silly on anything but a sports car.
The current rage of low profile tires and ridiculously huge wheels is a fad. They contribute nothing to handling quality but do increase purchase price and cost of ownership substantially.
Well, at least I owned one Mopar product - the Le Baron, which was NOT my best purchase. Funny thing about the dodgeman07 screen name though. Back in '06 when I signed up with edmunds.com, I was driving a 2004 Chevrolet Malibu LT V6 and was very interested in the Charger which had just come out. I liked it so much that I used dodgeman07 for my screen name. Well I test drove the Charger and the Lucerne and went with the Buick in '07 and I'm glad I did.
Back to the Cruze. Yes, the low profile tire craze has gotten out of hand. 70-series rubber use to be standard on most passenger cars and now with 60-series being the tallest sidewall you can usually find, I want to stick with it. It does improve ride quality and with my canyon carving days behind me, they're a much better choice.
The sales figures indicate otherwise. Do some research and you might learn how wrong you are. Enclave routinely outsells MDX. Equinox has been in demand since launch and has sold without incentives. CTS outsells TL, IS and G37 sedan almost every month.
SRX is outselling every lux crossover except RX.
Camaro is best selling car in its class.
The Kia sorento has NEVER passed the Equinox in sales and you should provide a link if you claim otherwise.
Another point you avoided- GM (the maker of so many substandard vehicles) is still the #1 seller in the US in spite of losing 4 brands. Hyundai isn't even close to GM's sales. Hyundai isn't close to Chevy's sales along. Hyundai is doing great but your assertion than CURRENT GM vehicles are behind the competition is flat out false.
Based on the success of the past few launches there is NO reason to expect the Cruze to be anything but a hit. I finally saw one on the road last Sunday.
There is a lot of bloviating on these forums. Sheesh, you know what they say about opinions...they're like...well, you know, everybody has one--but there is nothing worse than opinions masquerading as facts. I first noticed at work about twenty-five years ago, that people who get the facts wrong are typically the ones who act the most confident when they're talking. I wish I knew why that was.
2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
obviously at this oint all speculation. But after seeing it in person, and scoping out the interior, I predict it will be a hit. Especially if the driving experience is anything close to matching the 1st impression.
only thing that concerns me is that it may be a bit of a "tweener". Kind on the big end of the compact class, and also on the more expensive side. So, it is in a slightly gray area of competing up and down. Along with being somewhat of a premium offering, and priced as such, it may confuse buyers a bit.
But hopefully, once the reviews and initial sales are out, people will get intriqued and give it a look.
No comparison though to a Corolla, seemingly not even in the same class. Even the CIvic seems kind of small and outdated here. ANd the Cruze is quite a bit bigger then either one.
Mazda 3 seems to be the closest match for content/postiioning/price, but the Cruze has way more room (but no hatch yet).
I think it is the perfect size though. Pretty much what a mid size used to be (Accord, Mazda 626) before they all became bloated, supersized barges.
".....Really, go read any of the reviews or forums about the Sonata. The car easily gets 35mpg on the highway, due to the efficiency of the 2.4L DI engine, the 6-speed trans and the .27 drag coefficient. "
So, my father just returned from a trip from RI to Atlantic city with his 4000 lb, 3.0 V6 2010 Lacrosse, with 4 people and luggage, overall FE was 30.6, including the around town driving. 35 mpg actual is not that far off.
Who gets hwy numbers from their typical tanks of gas? Even 5 miles of city driving tacked on to the end of a 30 mile interstate run will knock you down a few mpg.
And why would I need to read a review to confirm a number that does not impress me? I get 34 with a 10% heavier car with an automatic under the same conditions. But the reality is that within a typical tank is lots of city driving. Another reality is that shaving 10% of the weight out of a car will mean thin stuff.
Larger wheels are more than a fad, they are a permanent fixture of new cars. We aren't going back to 70 series tires. Larger wheels fill the wells and make a car look sportier looking. Generally, prices are higher with larger tires but on family cars you can get affordable replacement tires in 17" and 18" sizes. I have a car with 18" rims and the ride quality is fine. Generally speaking, less sidewall leads to better handling response..
I guess the point is that family sedans should offer 16" rims and 60-series tires. They ride better, are less expensive to replace, and offer more than adequate handling response.
Corvettes use to go with 50-series tires for handling response. Now 18" rims and 50-series (& even 45-series) tires are on commuter cars. It's totally unneccessary. Adds cost and compromises ride quality in the name of - aesthetics - no thanks.
Now, why do we need the "wheel wells filled"? That makes no sense when the result is a terrible ride quality on roads less than smooth and offers tires and wheels that are more susceptible to road hazard damage?
>make a car look sportier looking.
Yup, most people buying a quality sedan are concerned about looking sporty...! NOT.
The idea that tires have to rubber bands has indeed evolved just for appearances. I read posts about how one car was better because they had lower profile tires available and their rim size was 1 inch larger than that other awful car.
It's not reality.
I'll look at the tire sizes to determine what I put money into. It's just like investing: I certainly don't put funds into instruments that are more likely to have failures but they look pretty and other people perceive them as "sporty."
My friend's wife hit a tall curb just going down the left lane along a median. Cell phone related. The black painted steel 17 inch rim was a $261 replacement at the Hundai dealer.
I had 16" wheels with 50 series tires for 6 years and then 50 series tires on 18" wheels for 3 years- never a blow out in that time span. I don't expect any on my current car either. Tire construction has come a long way just like every other aspect of automobiles over the last few decades.
These things are OPTIONS. The cruze has 16" wheels standard and most compacts have 15" wheels standard. Cruze offers 16", 17" and 18" wheels and few are going to pony up for the LTZ with the 18s. I believe the Impala has 16" wheels standard while the Malibu now has 17s standard. In today's world 16" or even 17" wheels aren't considered big and you can get affordable replacement tires in those sizes since these cars are sold with all season rubber.
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Let's stick to talking about the Chevy Cruze, please. Most of you know where to find other discussions relevant to the off-topic conversation that's been occurring here, so please head that way if you wish to continue.
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The Sonata was designed in California.
The people dissing the 2011 as tinny have obviously never driven one. The 2011 is new from the ground up, and solid as a rock, as every single review has noted. If GM enthusiasts want a scare, go test drive one. The Malibu just got a beat down, and the Cruze, being nearly as expensive as the Sonata, is doomed to sub-par sales.
Cruze away. GM is still one step behind the competition in almost every market segment, but that is an improvement over the five steps behind they were a few years ago.
From elsewhere on Edmunds:
Hyundai Sonata Speeds to Top of Sales Charts; Nudges Honda Accord Among Midsizers
September 07, 2010
By Michelle Krebs
Hyundai Sonata 2011.jpg The Hyundai Sonata is racing to the top of U.S. sales charts.
In August, Sonata grabbed third place among midsize cars for the third time since it was vastly redesigned earlier this year as a 2011 model; it is nudging the rear bumper of the Honda Accord.
The Toyota Camry remained in first place in sales among midsize sedans, but the Sonata easily overtook Nissan Altima in August; it already had passed by the Chevrolet Malibu and Ford Fusion.
Overall, the Sonata has soared to sixth place among all vehicles sold in the United States -- it's highest ranking ever. It has been No. 1 for 22 of the past 24 weeks for shopping consideration among consumers visiting Edmunds.com.
And Hyundai has been selling only one version of the Sonata; hybrid and turbo models are upcoming.
August's Third Among Midsizers
In August, Hyundai sold 21,399 Sonatas, which allowed it to roar past the Nissan Altima to take third place among midsize sedans and close in on the Honda Accord, which was second behind the Toyota Camry. In August, Hyundai sold only 3,749 Sonatas fewer than Honda did the Accord.
I have a 2005 Accord, which I consider plenty big if not bigger than needed. The 2010 is way to large for my tastes, and the Cruze is pretty much just right. Heck, it is only about 8" shorter than my Accord, and probably as big as the one from a couple generations ago.
You are correct that prices could overlap, and some people may move up market for that reason (bigger size/same $). But normally, you get a choice of loaded small vs. stripper big.
Maybe the Sonata price point skews that, but again, many people don't want to supersize even if it doesn't cost much.
At least within a "family", you can compare easily. Honda, a great example. You could get a base Accord (DX) for the same price as a Civic EX (or about that). But, you give up the alloys, moonroof, etc. And many people want all the toys.
So, a 22.8K cruze has at least a moonroof that a Sonata GLS does not have. And the trunk is just about as big.
Now, when the Elantra shows up in a couple months, that will be a true knife fight!
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I agree few people will cross shop a big car like the Sonata (EPA Large Car) with a Cruze. The Elantra is the Cruze's competition. Hyundai's dealer network bothers me too. I'm 35 miles from a Hyundai/Kia dealer and 2 miles from a Chevy dealer and while styling is subjective, I appreciate the Cruze's understated elegance. The Hyundai Sonata (and upcoming Elantra) look like somebody melted the grille.
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I know a lot of people that buy Hyundais exhibit a slight inferiority complex and have to constantly bombard everyone with how great Hyundais are. I hope you're not one of them. Don't get me wrong, I think the Sonata is a fine car but why blow your horn on this thread so much. Do you consider yourself some sort of mesiah and feel you have to convert the masses to Hyundai and away from GM?
I am well versed in the success of the Sonata and its a nice car but the idea that its head and shoulders above the Cruze is nonsense. If anything it sounds like the Cruze is actually as refined, if not more refined. I've been in both cars and the Cruze LTZs interior is actually nicer than the Sonata's interior. The Sonata's interior LOOKS nice, but in person its about on par with the Camry. The design details and the feel of the switchgear are not premium at all. It's perfectly suitable for the class however.
Your statements about GM's vehicles are out of line with reality and its apparent you wouldnt ever consider the Cruze so I don't understand why you are commenting here. The Cruze is the latest in a long list of very competitive vehicles from GM. You consider the Enclave, Malibu, CTS, Camaro, Equinox, etc. several steps behind the competition?
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Yes, I consider your list of GM vehicles to be several steps behind the competition, and the market agrees.
Enclave - Are you kidding me? A Traverse with 150 lb of chrome can't hold a candle to the Lexus or Acura or Land Rover's it attempts to compete with. Look at the specs, look at the SALES. I live in Colorado, which is luxury SUV heaven, and I've only seen two Enclaves, ever.
Malibu - There was a brief moment when the Malibu had a shot. Then the new Accord, new Altima, new Sonata came out. Again, look at the specs and look at the SALES. The market has voted. Fourth in sales in its class, despite having more dealers than any of the others.
CTS - I like the CTS. This is the only GM car besides the Corvette that actually ranks in the top three in its segment. But again, sales are lacking, because the competition is so strong. You can't look at the CTS on its own, you have to look at the BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, Audi, Lexus, Acura and Infiniti competition. The CTS-V is in a class of its own, but when the car is $65K, there is A LOT of competition. I'd take a CTS-V wagon in a heartbeat for $35K, but $65K? The CTS is priced the same as similarly spec'd competition, but one of the big strikes against any Cadillac is resale, and you're flushing $20K the moment you drive off the lot.
Camaro - Yawn. Like the Malibu, there was a brief moment where the Camaro had a shot. Then Ford upped the ante. Every head to head comparison chooses the 2011 Mustang over the Camaro, whether the comparison is V8 or V6, power or handling. And in styling, both the Mustang and Challenger kill it. The Camaro exterior is a terribly confused mishmash and the interior is a faux-retro abomination. Why GM decided to emulate the interior of the late-60's Camaro, one of the WORST interiors ever, is beyond me, and apparently beyond buyers, since after the initial wow wore off, sales have cratered.
Equinox - The Kia Sorento just topped the Equinox in sales. Kia. How many Kia dealers are there? Are you kidding me? And CR-V long ago left the Equinox in the dust. So again, they tried, but despite the huge dealer network, the Equinox content has fallen short except in the midwest where driving consists of getting on the highway and turning on the cruise control, which by all reports works fine in the Equinox.
The Cruze is destined to the same fate as the cars above. It is a good effort FOR GENERAL MOTORS. Unfortunately, it is way overpriced. The people looking for cheap transportation can get a Scion or Yaris or Versa or a Fit for less. Once you get to Cruze dollars, the number of options expands, and you don't have to get a tiny car.
If you can get a car rated as full-sized that gets 35mpg highway, why bother with a Cruze that gets the EXACT same mileage ratings for the same price? And the vaunted 1.4L turbo gets a whole 1 mpg better, while pushing the MSRP into mid-sized category.
Again, GM continually improves, but the competition improves at an even faster rate. GM really needs to figure out how to look at the competition's NEXT vehicle, and get their vehicle in that segment out at the same time, but BETTER. Right now, they seem to target the competition's current vehicle and aim for that, then by the time they deliver the competition has move up a notch or two.
I am more a fan of leasing than buying but it seems like Vehicle Manufacturers spend so much money advesting/marketing their NEW offerings, they don't offer any attractive lease offers until sales start to decline. Does anyone know what lease offers GM has planned for the CRUZE in the near future (next 6 months)?
The ugly current civic has no data. The next civic has no data.
The toyotas had lots of data and look what toyota got caught doing with nonreporting of events to NHTSA for what was it 7 years? So how's the confidence in toyota now? I wouldn't buy a used one.
Somehow people have gotten resale in their heads as an important characteristic of a car. It's a car; not an investment. If you only buy the car everyone wants used, you've got an Enron.
As I check a local Chevrolet dealer that usually has good used cars, I see year old Cobalts asking more than they asked for year old Cobalts a year back. It's my feeliing that my Cobalt is only depreciating slowly based on their pricing.
But when I buy a car, I buy it to drive and enjoy. I don't buy it to sell it two years later.
No one knows what's coming in the future. I'd go test drive and talk to a salesman.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I am with you though. I buy a car that fits my needs, and that I like and enjoy driving. Resale, and to some extent expected reliability, is not at the top of the list for deciding what to get.
I would buy a VW over a Toyota most likely. And I would rather poke out my eyes with a sharp stick than drive a Corolla every day for the next 5+ years.
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I read less than two weeks ago, that the Equinox was the vehicle among ALL vehicles now being sold, that is in dealer inventory the least amount of time. Try and get a "deal" on one. Can't be done!
You also stated, flatly and matter-of-factly, a few days back that "...most (parts content) of the Sonata is from this country."
Forty-one percent is "most"?!
Please provide links to items you show as facts.
Incidentally, the Camaro is still outselling the Mustang, now. Look online anyplace. It won't take long.
35 mpg in a Sonata and 35 mpg hwy in the Cruze? The Sonata works wonders in mpgs and the S. Korean economy. What's the unemployment rate in your state?
accord
fusion
altima
camry
malibu
passat
sonata
mazda6
did I forget any?
hybrid and non hybrid versions
new models every 3-5 years for each one
to shine briefly is to do great.
35 mpg in Sonata? not representative of anything real.
At 3000 miles, my new 4 cyl is finally matching my 8 yr old supercharged V6 in commute mileage at about 27.5 mpg. This equal mileage actual result is for a rated at 34 hwy 4 cyl compared to rated at 27 V6. There is not much mpg gain in shrinking the car or the engine. A lot of space and comfort is given up for marginal gains in efficiency in day to day driving. Only at the rare extremes does the difference grow. Like long trips, where even the SC3.8 still topped 30 and the Malibu might hit 32 or 33, but with less space, cargo, and weight.
Cruze is 2 more mpg from 1.4Turbo than my 2.5 L4 Malibu. Cruze is rated as a midsize with 3102 lbs weight as a 1LT with 6A. Saves 350 lbs over Malibu. I suspect you only need to go back a gen or 2 to get an Accord under 3100 lbs with a 4. The Cruze is $5k less MSRP than Malibu for similar equipped versions. Seems reasonable. I don't recall the Malibu to Cobalt difference as more than that.
89% of Cobalt buyers would not repeat. Will the Cruze improve on that? By a landslide would be my Opinion.
Sonata is 3199 lbs with 1000cc bigger engine. Only 97 lbs heavier than the Cruze and it gets lower mileage? Maybe wonders do cease?
The Equinox/Terrain problem is availability. GM is selling every one they can build right now. The Cruze is step in the right direction that should sell 20,000/units a month. Time will tell. The LaCrosse is selling very well also. GM is doing some good things and the Cruze should help the cause.
P.S. The Cruze is far from "tiny". It's one of the largest vehicles in it's class.
I currently drive a Honda Accord and am very interested in the Cruze, especially since it now looks like all trims will have an available manual transmission (a must have for me).
My Accord is rated 31 mpg highway and my lifetime average is 34.7 mpg with dozens of tanks over 40 mpg. This is in no small part to the MT and Chevy is doing well to offer it on all trims. It costs them nothing to do so if it is on one trim already. I expect I would average over 40 mpg with a Cruze.
Here are some of the things I like in no particular order.
Modern electronics. Bluetooth, usb etc. available and at a reasonable price on all models. Honda wants to put you in a top of the line model for this.
Size - considerably larger than a Corolla or Civic. About the same size as a gen 6 Accord (1999-2002). I think the current Accord is too large and the civic is too small. The Cruze is just right.
MPG. The Eco gets 40 mpg highway - way better than a Sonata or whatever else.
I want a nice well appointed car with room for 4, excellent mpg and a stick shift. Cruze fits the bill. Not much else (if anything) does.
I have never bought an American car in 30 years of ownership, but I may break that trend.
Of course if they really wanted to seal the deal they would make it a station wagon. Too bad this country is so anti efficiency and only likes wagons if they are tall and have 4wd and an acronym like SUV.
You are correct if you are talking about the MT6 version of the 2011 Sonata, since owners are reporting 37+ mpg highway with the MT. Real, measured MPG.
Really, go read any of the reviews or forums about the Sonata. The car easily gets 35mpg on the highway, due to the efficiency of the 2.4L DI engine, the 6-speed trans and the .27 drag coefficient.
The Sonata will be 51% NA content once their transmission line comes on before the end of the year.
...
But when I buy a car, I buy it to drive and enjoy. I don't buy it to sell it two years later.
I quite agree.
Anyone buying a general-production automobile as an investment really should get some professional investment advice.
Back in the 60's & 70's, at least in the Southeast, vinyl seating surfaces were just about all you could find in the showrooms. I always had to search for (and sometimes, special order) cloth interiors. The dealer's sales folks would always stress "The resale value is higher with vinyl", and I would counter with "I'm buying the car to drive... not to sell. That's YOUR job".
"..will be 51%.." sure seems like some backpedaling from "...most of the Sonata is American".
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Not a wagon, but a hatchback for Europe:
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
It's safe bet that a Cruze model other than the 4-door sedan will be offered in the future. It might a 5-door hatchback, or maybe even a coupe, but something other than the sedan is very likely to be offered by 2012.
I've been driving GM products (the '04 Malibu and now '06 Lucerne) since the summer of 2005 and average about 20,000 miles/year. The Malibu and Lucerne have been absolutely flawless. Nothing but oil changes and my Lucerne is tight as a drum with 72,000 miles on the clock. I average 24mpg in the Lucerne I drive now with the 3800 V6 and conservative driving. I don't need a full-size car however and that's why the Cruze is high on my list. It's got NVH down to a science (a la Buick's Quiet-Tuning) and that's what I like. The Cruze also offers 60-series rubber on the LT with sweet cast aluminum wheels that look good and should ride very well for a small car.
Econobox will be a thing of the past in America very soon when it comes to compact cars. I happy that the Cruze is leading the way.
j/k here.
You do raise a good point (well, to me). 60 series tires is fine on a "normal" family type car. the proliferation of low profile rubber, even on eco cars, is silly. 45 series tires that aren't even that wide (like 215s) are just silly on anything but a sports car.
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I stay away from them whenever I can.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The roads are deteriorating all over North America and a smaller wheel with a higher profile tire to absorb the punishment is the trick.
Back to the Cruze. Yes, the low profile tire craze has gotten out of hand. 70-series rubber use to be standard on most passenger cars and now with 60-series being the tallest sidewall you can usually find, I want to stick with it. It does improve ride quality and with my canyon carving days behind me, they're a much better choice.
SRX is outselling every lux crossover except RX.
Camaro is best selling car in its class.
The Kia sorento has NEVER passed the Equinox in sales and you should provide a link if you claim otherwise.
Another point you avoided- GM (the maker of so many substandard vehicles) is still the #1 seller in the US in spite of losing 4 brands. Hyundai isn't even close to GM's sales. Hyundai isn't close to Chevy's sales along. Hyundai is doing great but your assertion than CURRENT GM vehicles are behind the competition is flat out false.
Based on the success of the past few launches there is NO reason to expect the Cruze to be anything but a hit. I finally saw one on the road last Sunday.
only thing that concerns me is that it may be a bit of a "tweener". Kind on the big end of the compact class, and also on the more expensive side. So, it is in a slightly gray area of competing up and down. Along with being somewhat of a premium offering, and priced as such, it may confuse buyers a bit.
But hopefully, once the reviews and initial sales are out, people will get intriqued and give it a look.
No comparison though to a Corolla, seemingly not even in the same class. Even the CIvic seems kind of small and outdated here. ANd the Cruze is quite a bit bigger then either one.
Mazda 3 seems to be the closest match for content/postiioning/price, but the Cruze has way more room (but no hatch yet).
I think it is the perfect size though. Pretty much what a mid size used to be (Accord, Mazda 626) before they all became bloated, supersized barges.
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So, my father just returned from a trip from RI to Atlantic city with his 4000 lb, 3.0 V6 2010 Lacrosse, with 4 people and luggage, overall FE was 30.6, including the around town driving. 35 mpg actual is not that far off.
And why would I need to read a review to confirm a number that does not impress me? I get 34 with a 10% heavier car with an automatic under the same conditions. But the reality is that within a typical tank is lots of city driving. Another reality is that shaving 10% of the weight out of a car will mean thin stuff.
And to more broken wheels and blown tires, too!
Corvettes use to go with 50-series tires for handling response. Now 18" rims and 50-series (& even 45-series) tires are on commuter cars. It's totally unneccessary. Adds cost and compromises ride quality in the name of - aesthetics - no thanks.
Now, why do we need the "wheel wells filled"? That makes no sense when the result is a terrible ride quality on roads less than smooth and offers tires and wheels that are more susceptible to road hazard damage?
>make a car look sportier looking.
Yup, most people buying a quality sedan are concerned about looking sporty...! NOT.
The idea that tires have to rubber bands has indeed evolved just for appearances. I read posts about how one car was better because they had lower profile tires available and their rim size was 1 inch larger than that other awful car.
It's not reality.
I'll look at the tire sizes to determine what I put money into. It's just like investing: I certainly don't put funds into instruments that are more likely to have failures but they look pretty and other people perceive them as "sporty."
Same for picking a car.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,