Pontiac Vibe

melfitz

I have had several problems with my vibe. Here is my list:

Automatic Trans shifts to low going down inclines
air conditioning smell musty and damp
rear seat locks do not engage had fixed 2 times
rear hatch latch was sticky
plastic covers throughout vehicle keep falling off
rotten egg smell throughout vehicle
rust showing on corners of doors under door seal
air conditioning cool but definately not cold
I have changed air filter 3 times in 19 months
steering column locks up
water comes out my exhaust pipe/ they say its condensation somewhere
They wanted me to change air conditioner filter after only 7 months because of odor

I have 2 case with the bbb going on and one is for the lemon law if anyone else has problems call the BBB right away and file. Maybe we can get a class action suit going to get our darn money back.

Melissa at Mfit3426@aol.com

montanafan

That appears to be the rebate set up I have seen posted everywhere. Salesman could be right, although I see less and less 2004 on lots as I drive by, and more and more 2005s on the road.

We are lucky then here in Massachusetts, since 2000 we do not have to pay sales tax on the rebate amounts. Tax is after discout, after rebate, and after trade. If GM were to give credit, it would have to be after they stop offering rebates to the customer, so it would be well into the next calander year I bet.

Kirstie_H

This board can't be used for solicitation of any kind, so let's steer away from discussions about class-action lawsuits.

Additionally, this is a message board format. Posting messages asking that members exchange info via e-mail instead of posting info on the boards is a no-no. Doing so defeats the purpose of this message board, and deprives all our members of the valuable information exchanged. Also, posting your e-mail address on a public message board exposes you to receiving even more SPAM. Please e-mail me if you would like these messages deleted, so that you can re-post without the address.

(edit: Sorry Montanafan, I posted this before your message - the "stop" doesn't apply to your message )

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

montanafan

I don't not usually replay to first day poster with complaints blowing of steam and trying to feel better, but your post is so full of issues.

The rotten egg smell has been an on going problem for Toyota with this engine combo. It effects their Corolla and Matrix as well as their NUMMI built Vibe. Toyota recently issued a TSB for their Matrix to fix it, and I believe they have also given GM a fix for the Vibes. As I recall it involves a possible replacement of the engine control unit.

A musty smell is a common issue with many manufacturers, not just Toyota. Can find many TSBs from manufacturers, even GM has one. It usually shows up in areas of high hummidity. It is caused by mold growth on the AC evaporator. As the evaporator cases have gotten smaller over the years, there is less air flow to remove moisture from the coils after the car is shut down. Most fixes involve a chemical cleaning of the core. Then some install a unit to run the blower motor after the car is shut down to move some air. Another way is to shut down the AC and runn the blower for a time before shutting the car off.

There is an adjustment that can be made to improve the AC operation by making it colder.

The interior trim pieces are the same on the Canadian Toyota Matrix as the American NUMMI Pontiac Vibe.

More then ever, the vast majority of cars sold in the US are built here. Hyundai and Kia are built in Korea, so they are most likely your best place to turn next.

Water coming out of the exhaust is condensation. All cars will do it. Over the years it has been my observation that small engine cars seam to do it in more volume.

I am told by someone with a Vibe, that pages 6-22 & 6-23 describe the passenger compartment air filter replacement procedure. That page 7-5 indicates it should be repalce every 15,000 miles. And that both the short trip & long trip maintenance schedules list it at each 15,000 mile interval.

You do not geive details about your steering wheel lockup. But I am also told that a condition is addressed in the cars booklets. Here is the quote they emailed me. "Steering Wheel Lock-Up" "Should the key become stuck in the lock position, or if you are unable to turn the key, turn the steering wheel to the left and right while turning the key hard by hand".

Hopefully this info will be helpful. This info can be found on several sites. But there is a site devoted to the Vibe. Search for it.

mcdawgg

In addition to what Montanafan wrote:

1. Transmission is supposed to downshift on downhill slopes.
2. Changed engine air filter 3 times??? I guess if you live somewhere EXTREMELY dusty! This is not a problem with this car.
3. Steering column - if you turn the wheel after key is removed, it will lock - it is supposed to. See owner's manual.
4. AC temperature - take out another Vibe and compare - it is probably normal. To get it cold, turn control to recirculate. Most small cars are like this, especially after the gov't outlawed the R-12 freon.

nippononly

I posted some stuff in the other thread (Vibe/Matrix - maintenance and problems) but I just wanted to add that you should be able to get rid of the musty A/C smell simply by adopting a little habit: turning OFF the 'RECIRC' button for the last couple of minutes before shutting down the car. Allowing outside air to vent the system gets rid of that smell, which I never smelled in my car because I did this simple little trick each time I parked the car for the night.

cttguy

Melfitz,

I had my hearing with the BBB a couple of months ago and my complaint was denied. On a conference call with a representative of GM the arbitrator in Chicago acted throughout the meeting in a very sympathetic manner. GM does acknowledge the "condition" (they won't call it a problem) but puts the blame on the gas. On the test drive with the arbitrator, I couldn't duplicate the condition within the ten minutes I was aloted. In the end, the complaint was dismissed by the BBB.

Bottom line, in my opinion, the BBB is just a shill for all of the companies that contribute to them (GM is a major contributor). Rather than initiate a costly law suit I have decided to wait until the Vibe is 2 years old and then dump it.

Don't expect any help from the BBB. The're worthless.

Oh, and to the Californians that keep talking about their low sulfur gas, we have the same thing in Illinois from April to October, a special blend to reduce summer emissions, and the result is the same.

cttguy

nippononly

gas also uses different oxygenates than other parts of the country - perhaps that is it? Back when the sulfur smell was first reported, I was very interested and began asking all over these boards whether anyone in California had this problem. No-one ever did. All the complaints (and there were many) were from other parts of the country, interestingly many in the Midwest.

With one in ten American car sales occurring in California, my mini-survey is far from conclusive, but definitely very suggestive mathematically.

mpgman

Was deciding between a Forester and Focus wagon and decided to look at the Vibe. I understand that for 05, side head curtain (drop down from near the roof) air bags, stabilitrak anti-skid system and leather are new options. What are you getting for mpgs with the automatic fwd? Do any of these come with lumbar support controls for the driver? Finally, would you buy one again and what cars did you choose from before getting one? I just personally don't like the Matrix styling but do like the gray bumpers that are standard on the Vibe for city parallel parking where others park by sound and feel.

Thanks.

mpgman

This is my second post in a row. As I read through the threads I am getting more concerned about buying a Vibe. I am looking at a loaded car to be ordered with leather, side curtain air bags, stabilitrak, ABS, etc. The list will be over $21k. Seems like even with the 1,000 rebate and dealer discount it is too much. My other car is an Elantra GT 5 door hatch. Other than not wanting two of the same, anyone debating here which way to go really needs to check these out. For under $15k, you can get a loaded car. Side air bags are standard. So too is leather, heated side mirrors, speed sensitive power steering, fog lights, trip computer, 4 wheel discs, Michelins, driver lumbar support and great leg room with a real center arm rest and fully variable wipers. Even the rear wiper has an intermittent. The cargo space is great. The warranty is 10/100,000 on the powertrain and 5/60 bumper to bumper. You can get ABS and traction control. I have o er $45k of trouble free driving.

thel

Sounds to me like you should just keep your Elantra...

mpgman

I intend to. The Vibe would be car #2, replacing an 18 year old Omni.

mpgman

When I commented to the dealer that the Vibe didn't set any records for driver leg room, he told me that GM has longer seat track kits that can be special ordered. There appears to be some program according to this dealer rep that with medical documentation will result in GM sharing the cost to do this. I am assuming it is to assist people who simply need more room to manuever. Anyone out there ever heard of this? An extra inch or two of leg room sure would help many.

thel

Why not buy another Elantra GT...they are pretty much the same type of car.

It sounds to me like you need to really decide what you need a second car to do.

The second car to my Matrix XRS is a 1990 Mazda Miata. Why? B/c the Miata is still 10X more fun to drive than the Matrix...or just about any other car I've driven, so I find my self using the 15 year old (come December) Miata more than the Matrix. But the Matrix is handy for hauling around my family and hauling lots of stuff that can't fit in the Miata's puny trunk.

Another 2nd car option that makes sense to me would be a pick up for "dirty" hauling...you know a front-loader full of mulch, or plywood, or a load of gravel.

Why anyone would need / want to have a pair of wagons is beyond me but hey, YMMV.

mikus

> water comes out my exhaust pipe
> they say its condensation somewhere

It may happen on a cold engine, this is condensed water in the exhaust pipe. This may happen during normal operation as well, this means that ignition system, fuel system and cathalytic converter do their job right. Water is the natural product of burning, and the fact that you can see it dripping means that exhaust temperature is low, which is good. Low exhaust temperature means that all fuel have burned, and cathalitic converter does not have to oxidise unburned fuel. Oxidising process increases the temperature of the converter and of exhaust gases. So, water dripping from the exhaust pipe means that engine works economically and in a good shape. Older engines start to consume more oil, which has to be oxidized as well. So older engines less likely to drip water because of higher converter temperature.

Here is the formula:

2CnHm + 2mnO2 -> 2nCO2 + mH2o,

or easier to look at, but unbalanced:

CnHm + O2 -> CO2 + H2O

maxx4me

While probably any place could insert new seat rails and extend the leg room, you will be left with not being able to reach the steering wheel should you move it back. I would have 2 Vibe's in my driveway if it had adjustable pedals and telescoping steering wheel. That's why I went with the Maxx; much more versatile.
If you haven't looked at the Maxx, I'd highly recommend it. The rebates are enormous right now, and it is a far superior car to the Vibe. But for your two picks, I'd go with the Elantra. While you are bound to have problems with it somewhere along the line, it is a much better value than the Vibe, won't have the paint problems like the Vibe, and has a wonderful warranty (as you pointed out).

mpgman

I looked briefly at the Maxx and came away impressed. Minor nit picks...why no overhead assist grips for the front seat and only for the rear and is there a driver left foot rest? Can you share some of the rebate info with me? I know that Consumer Reports reported average mpgs of 26 with the six cylinder, which is quite amazing. Some Chevy dealers are quoting ridiculously low prices, but that is if you were born on the Tuesday when a once in a lifetime alignment of certain planets and star occurred, recently graduated from college, are in the military, are trading in an Olds, bought a new car from them in the last 60 minutes and have a legal middle name beginning with the letter "X."

mpgman

The website is only showing a military rebate.

maxx4me

go to the Edmunds Malibu Prices Paid link for more information on what people are paying. The rebats is (still) at least $3500 PLUS (I believe) another $1500 if you finance through GMAC. Makes me wish I waited a little longer.

mpgman

There is a listing for up to $4500 but that is just for the 04s. Does that match up with your info? So...nothing on the 05s? Is there any appreciable difference other than the model year and all that entails depreciation wise? Thanks.

Kirstie_H

Our Rebate & Incentives page is showing $750 back on the 2005 MAXX, at least in my area.

But to get back on topic (Pontiac Vibe), the 05 Vibe has $1000 cash, but only if you trade in a competitive non-GM car. Lets talk about the MAXX in one of the discussions specific to that vehicle, please.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

capitano

What do they mean by "competitive?" Does it need to be a current model? Just anything not GM?

What would be a non-competitive, non-GM car?

Kirstie_H

"What would be a non-competitive, non-GM car? "

I'm thinking that if you were looking to trade in a Lincoln Navigator on a Vibe, you could be excluded.

kirstie_h
Roving Host & Future Vehicles Host

montanafan

GM does have a program called GM Mobility Adaptive Equipment Program. Can find a link through the GM home page. It is a reinmbursement program for special adaptive needs modification for a driver or passenger. It specificly dosen't cover the relocation or modification of seat tracks. Also GM dosen't have optional seat track pacakges available for their cars.

mpgman

Both Consumer Reports and Consumer's Guide claim around 26 for their testing of combined city and highway driving with the fwd automatic Vibes. Do current automatic fwd owners find this accurate? What is your experience with pure highway at around 70 mph as well as with more stop and go type driving? Contrasting this, they report around 29 for the Corolla. I assume the Vibe's taller profile accounts for this difference?

Thanks.

nippononly

a base Matrix (FWD, same as FWD auto Vibe mechanically), and I got 31-32 mpg in regular driving, some city and some highway. I tend to drive with a light foot most of the time in an attempt to boost mileage, and I could get 35+ on the highway.

Other posters here have duplicated my mileage figures, but if you are less of a light foot you could still expect high 20s in regular driving, unless you are at high altitude or in the frozen north, I guess! :-)

The Vibe/Matrix does do worse than the Corolla due to the higher profile but also the extra 250 pounds.

Kirstie_H

A reporter is doing a story for Parade magazine (the magazine in most Sunday papers nationwide). She is looking for someone who, this year, traded in their SUV, pickup truck or minivan for a car, preferably a domestic car, but that’s not necessary.

If you have done this, or someone you know has, and would be willing to speak with the reporter, please e-mail pkrebs@edmunds.com by 5 pm PT today. Thanks!

mpgman

graphicguy

I've had my Vibe for 3 months now. Impressions are all positive.

First, this car is made in the GM/TOYOTA jointly owned NUMMI plant. I believe Toyota still manufactures one of their trucks there, too. It has been, and continues to be, one of the highest rated manufacturing plants in the world.

I test drove the MAXX, Matrix and Vibe before settling on the VIBE. While the Malibu is a step forward for that car, it is far from other offerings in the class like Camry and Accord. Comparing it to the Vibe is a bit unfair, but I still prefer the Vibe since I can fit all sorts of stuff in it (moreso than with the lower roofline of the Malibu). I feel the Vibe is better built with better materials than the Malibu, also. Then there's the better MPG and better price of the Vibe. In short, the Malibu left me underwhelmed. It just struck me as yet another typical (not in a good way) GM low-midrange product.

Regarding the list of "issues" previously posted, many of them are really "non-issues"....

--water from the tailpipe-non-issue and normal
--sulphur smell...more a function of the fuel in your area than anything else. I don't have that problem, though
--no panels have fallen off of my car...matter of fact, it's probably the best built car I've ever had from GM
--musty smell from A/C is a function of humidity and of condensation trapped in the HVAC system. Spray some Lysol in all of your vents and let it sit overnight to see if the remedies the problem. Past that, your dealer will have to take apart your HVAC and manually clean it. Problem there is, it will come back after a while. That's just the nature of your summer climate. That's the reason replacing the air filter will also just alleviate it temporarily.
--seat tracks....if it was comfortable during your test drive, then what changed to make it uncomfortable?
--downshifting-it's performing the way it should. If the engine is under stress at any given RPM, or it can add "compression braking" when going downhill, it will downshift. I personally think most automatic transmissions wait way to long to downshift. I'm glad they programmed the Vibe's auto tranny to be more "aggressive" with it's downshifts.
--A/C could be better, but mine cools off my interior in 94 degree and humid temps to a "chilly" level. It just takes a couple of minutes longer than it does with some cars I've owned with bigger engines.

My Vibe is an '04. I qualify for GMS, so I consider it a great bargain with the rebates ($3K) and the GM employee discount (got mine for $12K+ for a base model with automatic, cruise and power package).

Just got back from a road trip to Chicago. Put a total of 600 miles on it during the trip. I got 36 MPG for the entire trip with it totally loaded down with luggage, travel gear and 2 additional passengers. It was comfortable on the highway to boot. I couldn't be more pleased.

bporter1

I am curious as to know how the engine power was on that 600 mile trip. I know the engines are not barn burners, but like I said I am curious. The Vibe is on my short list of cars, and the list is getting shorter because GM just can't seem to get it right at all with their new product launches.

mpgman

Sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Vibe is on my short list too. Am also looking at the Focsus wagon, Forester and Malibu Maxx. How about you? My concerns with the Vibe are lower resale than Matrix, higher base price than Matrix, lack of ability to sit high and far back for the driver, no folding side mirrors and chrome dashboard gauge rings that annoyingly reflect sunlight off the windshield.

maxx4me

mpgman: there is a simple solution to the chrome ring reflection in the Vibe. The black plastic surrounding the 3 instrument circles comes off with ease. Once off, you can (clean the glass underneath for one thing) pry off the chrome rings from the back side. Once off, I used Color Place spray paint from WalMart (#21018 Silver) and sprayed it on. It matches very well with the center stack chrome color.
If you have any positioning problems when fitting in the Vibe, I think you'll find them all solved by the Maxx. I don't let my wife drive the Maxx at all (its mine....all mine). While I do miss the overhead cam design of the Corolla engine, the Maxx is a far superior car, which can be had for a bargain right now ('04 model). Good luck. I think (other than the Ford) that you have 3 good choices on your short list.

graphicguy

On my "road trip" power was fine on the highway. As pointed out, this isn't a speedy wagon, but MPG is great and I never once thought I was in need of more power. The transmission kicks down readily for passing and once on the highway, it proved to be a comfortable and willing cruiser.

Around town, you aren't going to win many stop light wars with it, however.

I'm 6' tall and don't have any problems whatsoever with getting a comfortable driving position with plenty of room. I find the seats very comfortable, too. After being in them for 8 straight hours, I got out of the Vibe with no back aches and no stiffness at all, much to my surprise.

I've not seen any problems at all with the chrome rimmed guages.

While MSRP can be a bit of a surprise, with the rebates and deals being offered, it actually is cheaper than a Matrix when equipped "like for like". Resale is a double edged sword. You'll pay more for a Matrix and it will hold better resale. But, I keep most of my cars to 100K miles +. At that point, I doubt there will be a big difference in what the Matrix will be worth over the Vibe...maybe a few hundred dollars.

Personally, I don't know that I'd consider the Malibu Maxx superior to the Vibe after comparing both when shopping. They do the same thing, only differently. I like the way I can fit a lot into the Vibe and its taller than the Malibu, so I can fit taller objects in it. I think the Corolla drivetrain has proven to be more reliable than most of GMs 4 and 6 cyl engines, too.

Given my druthers while looking for a wagon, I'd probably would have opted for a Mazda 6 wagon if I wanted to spend more money. But, I'm a Mazda fan. At the price of the Vibe, I find it hard to beat. While I admit that I got a great deal having qualified for the GMS price through my brother-in-law, I just saw an ad in the newspaper that GM is offering $2K off '04s with an additional $1K rebate if you own a competing brand. At $3K off MSRP plus a hundred or two over invoice pricing, you should be able to pick one up fairly loaded for around $13K-$14K.

mpgman

bporter1

The other vehicles on my short list would be the Malibu Maxx, and the Mazda 3 and or the Mazda 6 hatches and wagons. I have a GM card so I most likely will stick with the GM cars. I currently drive a Buick Regal GSE with the supercharger. Power is great but fuel economy will definately be a factor in my decision. Also I want something versatile. I wont be in the market for a couple of years but I am keeping my options open. I have test driven a Vibe and my mother bought a 2004 Corolla. I have driven her car and it does have some pep, but just a little apprehensive of the engine power when needed. I am spoiled with my car.

graphicguy

You aren't going to mistake the power of the Vibe with what you're experiencing with the supercharged 3800 (and engine I've always liked). As you point out, MPG is going to be significantly better with the Vibe, however. Plus, the Vibe runs on regular.

The Mazda 3 is going to be the "sports car" out of the ones you're looking at. The Mazda 6 will be more refined and bigger.

The Vibe will be the least expensive out of all of them.

Power is there when needed. YOu just have to "kick it down" a little more. I can pass trucks on the highway with ease once you hit the accelerator hard enough to get the transmission to go to a lower gear. The beauty part of it is, even when you do a lot of higher RPM running it'll still return sterling MPG.

Plus, the drivetrains have proven to be bulletproof, no matter how hard you flog them.

mpgman

Thanks, again. Might take another long look at the Vibe if I can do something with the chrome on the gauges. I like the fact that if you want it, you can get side curtain airbags, stabilitrak and leather in addition to ABS. Quite unusual in this class. I don't need all wheel drive but the rest is about as much as you can do to protect yourself from someone else when all else fails. I don't see any driver lumbar support adjustment, which is surprising given the level of detail with everything else, but the posters claiming no problems on long rides are encouraging.

sapphireblue

Friends of ours looked at the 2004 Matrix and Vibe (in early 2004) and opted for the Matrix as the vehicles were near-identical and the Matrix was cheaper. Yet, looking at MSRPs for 2005, the Vibe seems a little cheaper. Did they intentionally bring their pricing down to compete with Matrix (both MSRP and incentives)? Were they losing market share to Toyota, or just decided to be more aggressive in '05?

-sb

graphicguy

I just think GM's marketing is geared towards the "incentives". Personally, I think most know that when they walk into a GM dealership, they know that they aren't going to have to pay anywhere near MSRP sticker because of the incentives that GM has been running the last few years.

I couldn't tell you one way or the other whether Matrix or Vibe sells better. Around my 'burg, it seems like there are more Vibes than Matrix(s). That's far from a scientific assessment, though.

mpgman

Locked in analysis paralysis. I'd like to hear from Vibe owners who narrowed their choice down to Forester and Vibe and why they went with the Vibe. I see Vibe pros as lower purchase price, more available safety features on the 05 (head curtain air bags/anti-skid system), factory leather availability, significantly higher fuel mileage and Toyota build quality in a USA made car. I see Forester pros as top of the class rankings from respected sources, great crash results (probably matched by Vibe/Matrix, more driver legroom and better overall seating, lumbar support for the driver, better overall visibility especially to the side and rear, more cargo room, and folding mirrors. Can't speak to resale differences or repair histories. Is Forester better?

I can get a Vibe fwd auto with head curtains, anti-skid, leather and a few other goodies for $18k with all rebates. A Forester X with after market leather, trailer hitch, bike attachment, cargo nets, dimming mirror, etc., will run me $22,800.

What did I miss? What do you think? Thanks.

graphicguy

mpgman...probably time for a test drive in both. Don't know what you plan on using either for, but if you feel the Subey is worth the extra $4,500, then go for it.

maxx4me

mpgman: I shopped them all and say that the Forrester is better. Nonetheless, I bought the Vibe since it was more manuverable, had MUCH better rear seat leg room, and was easier to get in an out of. I get very mad at Subaru for having all that cargo room for my umbrella, at the expense of my rear passengers. I can put the rear seats down in the Vibe whenever I need the extra cargo room. I simply don't understand why Subaru thinks it is hip to skimp on the rear seating area, but they continue to do it on all their vehicles year after year. I say if you will never have passengers in the rear seat and like the way it drives, buy the Forrester.

jimmcknight

- I have 1 of each., 2001 Forester & 2003 Vibe AWD. Subaru has a great AWD system, and they usually last a long time. Maintenance is more frequent and more expensive on the Forester, especially preventive maintenance. The Forester rides smoother and is more powerful. Vibe gets better mpg and has a bit more room inside. The Forester will hold its value better, but insurance will be a little higher. I'd buy either one again - it's kind of whatever you like and what you get the best deal on.

mpgman

Your posts are really helpful. The Forester is 3 inches longer and has AWD standard, but there is still about a $5K difference from the loaded Vibe (leather/ABS/anti-skid/head curtains/side air bags/auto/full power) and the base Forester X. What kind of mpgs are you getting with both cars for similar type driving? Will the Vibe generally do about 7 mpgs more than the Forester as the EPA city number implies?

maxx4me

we get around 23 mpg with our Vibe AWD in the city. 30+ on the highway.

cmorton

I just purchased a base 2004 Vibe. I noticed that the Automatic Headlamps (no the daytime running lamp feature) came on even when the parking brake was applied. According to the manual, they are supposed to work only when the parking brake is disengaged. I took it to the dealer and they determined that it was a faulty sensor. A new one was installed, but the lamps still came on (when it was dark enough, of course)with the parking brake engaged. They called the factory and were told that this is now normal as of the mid-2004 production year. Has anyone else noticed this? This will be a hassle at say, the drive-in if you want to heat the car without having your headlamps shine on the screen. Guess I'll have to make some covers for the headlights.

mpgman

I priced an 05 Vibe and it came to nearly 22k list and that is without AWD and Mooons and Tunes. The dealer was willing to knock a grand or so off and there is 2k worth of rebates so the final price was $18,750. That's a ways off $13-14k. I want the side seat and side head curtain air bags, ABS, stabilitrak and leather so that is what drove the price up. At this rarefied level I start to wonder. I can get a fully loaded Focus wagon with leather, roof, traction control, side air bags, ABS and 6 disc in dash CD for $17,600 with a 5/100 powertrain warranty. Both cars would have to be ordered. Now I see where Subaru is offering a 4 year lease for $249 a month with nothing down on the Forester X model automatic. Choices, choices.....

dudleyr

That sounds about right for the Focus. The new 2.0 liter engine is also very nice. You can even get stability control on the Focus - rare in this class. Focus has more interior room and cargo room than Forrestor or Vibe, but the Vibe has a little more rear legroom. To me the Focus also handled better than either of the other two.

One thing I don't like about the Focus is no rear seat headrests. Reliablity has improbed to average, or maybe a little better.

montanafan

It could also be one of those GM-Toyota things. There have been many things discoved about the Vibes over time that are different then GM operation. Sometimes this makes for confussion in the owners manual, and dealerships.

Instead of headlight covers, what if you made something so you could keep a small flashlight on the light sensor and make it think it was daylight. Would keep all the lights off. And would be easy to work inside the car.

graphicguy

Mine is an '04 base model with the power package and automatic transmission. If memory serves, it stickered around $19K. Invoice was a little less than $18K. At the time, there were $3K in rebates and since my brother-in-law is a GM employee, I qualified for his discount and bought well under invoice then got the rebates on top of that. That's how I got the price I did.

It sounds like you're getting an '05 all loaded up. My guess is with AWD, stabilitrak, leather, etc, your sticker will be over $22K. Take off the $2K rebate and you're right around $20K. Figure you should be able to negotiate $1,000 off with your dealer and subtract the rebate, I would think your configuration would cost more like $19K plus a few hundred.

Personal opinion, the stereo upgrade isn't worth it and unless you live in "deep snow" country, I'm not sure AWD is worth it either. While I haven't had mine in snow yet, I have talked to other owners who have had their FWD Vibe in winter climates and they say it does great. Leather, in this type of car, isn't a priority.

So, if you get a base model, performance will be better without AWD. Plus, it will cost less with less complexity involved in the drivetrain. MPG will be better, too.

IMHO, the Vibe looks better than the "cartoonish" look of the Matrix and I've never been a big fan of Subarus for many different reasons (mainly feel they're overpriced).

Configured with automatic and power pack, your '05 will probably cost somewhere in the $17K area after rebates and negotiating.
I range from about 29 MPG in mixed around town driving to 35 MPG in highway driving.