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Comments
When pulling a steep hill and trying to merge, that extra cog, better performing transmission, and extra revs equal an easy task vs a struggling 3.8L that isn't going nearly as fast when the lanes meet. Been there, done that. The Ody leaves our previous 300hp 5.3L V8 Tahoe in the dust merging up that hill just because how the Ody puts the power to the ground. The Tahoe had about 400# on the Ody empty and performed about the same on flat 0-60. Hill climbing acceleration is not equal even when vehicles have similar flat-ground numbers. That's why I test drive all the vehicles I buy. I've driven vehicles that have good numbers on paper, but you have to thrash the engine to attain it and I don't want to hear that nonsense evertime I push the pedal. The Ody motor is sweet in sound and performance, anyone that doesn't think so probably wouldn't notice the difference between a garbage truck and a Benz.
I don't hate anyone socalawd, but I don't idolize auto "journalists" either. They don't ever live with the cars they "test".....most of these guys don't own real cars. They have their toys, and use the C&D garage for trips etc.. I could go on and on, on these rags picking COY etc...how dismal their decisions turn out to be later. I remember how the J car was going to beat the [non-permissible content removed] back, then Saturn, or how great the Catera was, their track record in picking great cars is lacking.
Guess I don't have to bank on info from C&R etc.. either or any mag that bashes DCX.
Was the Tahoe 4WD? Even the 2wd is 500 pounds more than the Ody. 4WD is another 200 + drivetrain losses. anyway, that's irrelavent.
Great point marine it is all about what you want. I think the reliability of these vans are very good. The main thing is what you want to do with the van and how important different features are to you.
I regularly tach out the Ody on the hwy ramp we use anytime we're going somewhere. By doing so gets me to around 80mph at the top of the ramp which gives me great jockeying position. My mothers 3.8L Caravan is in the 65mph range with the pedal pegged. It's a steep hill, but that's what I drive in all day long. The Ody doesn't feel like a heavy beast like many other heavy vehicles. Even our significantly higher powered Tahoe (yes 4x4, but lots more HP and boat-loads more torque...). It didn't rev much either, and loved to short-shift when climbing hills; something the Ody absolutely won't do. In fact, I've tried getting it to lug (somewhat of a good thing on slippery hills) up some steep hills and it will downshift 2-gears if it senses a hill.
If anyone has ever gone from Phoenix to Flafstaff up Rte. 17, they know there is a mountain that goes up for miles and miles and is quite steep. I not only can keep up with traffic on that mountain, but can pass most vehicles doing it with very little trouble.
I remember awhile ago, reading a piece in Edmonds on the 3.8, which stated how powerful the engine was. If I remember right, the Dodge was less than a second slower than the Honda in the quarter mile, in Consumers Report. Now if the Honda is so fast, a second less in the quarter mile doesn't make the Dodge a dog. I can take my van down the on ramp to the freeway and be keeping up with the flow of traffic by the time I'm ready to merge. That's all I want from a minivan, to be able to keep up with traffic and give me that extra power when I need it. If I want any more than that, I'll buy a sports car.
I think both sides need to get real in their praise and opinion of their and the other's van. There is nothing ugly about the Ody, it's a great looking van, especially inside. It's powerful and well refined and has a lot of things other vans don't offer. I think it's priced too high and am sorry they don't offer some cheaper models, but it's a great van.
The Dodge/Chrysler isn't as refined and not nearly as good looking (at least not inside)and offers a few less options that should be on the van. But it is powerful enough, quiet and smooth riding. Has stow-n-go seating that is a great feature. Large, covered storage bins to keep your van always looking nice and clean and offers a lot of models so that most people can afford to buy one.
It all boils down to what your looking for in a minivan and how much your willing to pay for it. I picked the Dodge because it would do a better job of doing what I wanted a minivan to do. Some people picked the Ody for the same reason and because it looks nice and is more refined. But both vans do a great job at doing what they were designed to do.
It is not that I don't yearn for excitement and performance, I just cannot utilize it in our minivan due to traffic and passenger restrictions.
Makes perfect sense to me. You have to look at ALL the costs & benefits when comparing (cost, quality, features, etc). I can see someone needing to use the stowNgo a lot for hauling big stuff around on a regular basis, so they might be willing to sacrifice the better handling Odyssey.
That's why it makes no sense to me to catagorize one being "overall" better or worse. For some, they don't care about the better power & handling, and the style and looks are completely subjective, as are a lot of ergonomics, as well as the "quality-feel" of a vehicle. Then for some, the additional cost is a factor, and since mid and long-term repair costs are hard to quantify, it's not possible to tell very accurately in the long-run which vehicle is a better value.
So you just have to look at a variety of things, but it's pretty obvious that you can't completely dismiss any minivan out there.
These are good forums for discussion, but the people that post over-generalied comments are just wasting space on the forum, as well as those who respond back to them.
I'm by no means putting down performance of the Ody. Only saying just because the Ody is a tad faster, by no means, means the Dodge/Chrysler is slow, or can't do the job it's asked to do and do it very well. Some on this board make it seem just because the Dodge/Chrysler doesn't have a five speed or a more refined engine that the old push rod will be left in the Honda's dust. Less than a second faster in the quarter miles, doesn't make the Dodge a slow dog. You may beat me up the mountain, even from a standing start, but my van will be right on your tail all the way up.
Now that's the most advantageous position to smell hot air! :0)
Seems to make a difference up that hill. Like I said before, there's about a 15mph difference at the merge point between my Ody and my mothers 3.8L Caravan. In fact, it might be more because generally it's usually just me in the Caravan and several passengers in the Ody. The gearing, transmission, how the engine revs, and powerband all directly effect acceleration and when you throw a steep hill in the mix the differences are more substantial. Just based on my butt-feel, the 3.8L will hang with the Ody to about 45mph (I would say it jumps off harder from a standing start) and beyond that you won't be right on my tail until I level off and let you catch up. Not that I'm racing, but I want to be going as fast as possible when I'm merging between big-trucks. In fact, I will usually pause at the bottom if there is a car in front of me because folks love to jam the brakes if they can't merge. Then it's real fun trying to go from 0-70mph in 20'. Completely unsafe.
Can you elaborate? What didn't it have? What's your family size and usage, since you have both the Pacifica & Odyssey?
NOT avaliable on an Odyssey for $10,000 or more MSRP than the T&C LX was....and the T&C LX was sold for less than MSRP which made it an even better purchase.
I drive a 2001 Odd EX frequently and my wife also notices how much NOISIER the Odyssey is than our entry level Town & Country. The 2001 Odd EX also has NO more power for acceleration at any speed under 60 MPH...but does have a slight advantage once a person is driving ABOVE the Interstate speed limit.
Sounds like that HP advantage of the new Odys would be pretty obvious then. New ones are what, 244hp now. '01 was around 210 (under the old HP standards). I'd guess the new ones have a good 50hp on that lump you've been driving around
I wonder why Dodge cut the heated windshields? I thought it had potential but came and went quickly. I'm guessing expensive replacement glass?
I'll agree on the noise factor, there. We had a 2000 Ody (no different than the 2001) which had lots of tire roar. It was a breeze to pass on the interstate on runs to the beach where traffic generally stays at 80 MPH or higher. I commonly drove our 'family' car, the 2000 Ody, behind my parents' in my dad's Accord. He liked to shoot into a gap to pass, and the Odyssey , once it downshifted, always kept up nicely. The only problem was that it drank the good stuff, premium. Thankfully, Honda has addressed the sound issue, added a gear and about 40 hp for better passing, and runs on good ole regular gas. Honda has come a long way since 2000!
Honda has come a long way since 2000. I think that DC's biggest claim to fame since then is the stow and go and eliminating AWD. Squandered time.
The Odd does NOT have AWD. Why would any owner of an Odd think DC squandered time by eliminating AWD? :confuse:
The Odd has also squandered time by placing the antenna in the rear window. Many 2005 Odd owners are complaining of very POOR radio reception.
I do think the copying of the Sienna 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row seat and MPV roll down sliding door windows was smart but dumb for Honda to delete the side opening rear side windows. The padded armrest with a shoulder and seat belt between the bucket seats of the 2nd row to make the Odd EX an 8 passenger minivan was another good idea of Honda.
Would be nice for DaimlerChrysler to copy some of the good features of the Odd in their next redesign.
Pluses: great cruiser on trip...no rust.
Minuses: Many, many mechanical problems, engine shot at 90k. Would never buy another Chrysler product.
HOWEVER: I realize it was a long time ago, but I bought a new, Honda Civic in 1980...not long after Car and Driver called it the "Mercedes of mini-cars."
Awful rust, once left me stranded with a major engine issue 135 miles from home. Lots of mechanical issues, etc. Got rid of it for a Camry in 1988 and got 200 bucks for it.
So, flip a coin!
But that was 25 years ago when the Honda engines can be considered to be "motorcycle engines" or derivatives. Roll forward to today and I can see and experience the significant improvements/refinements in my Ody. A class-leading powerful, sweet and melodic sounding engine that loves being pushed; combined with great handling, road feel/connectedness make the Ody very nimble and a joy to drive energetically. The close to 100 rental minivans I did do not provide that satisfying and driving, energetic enjoyment. I also have never had any problems with my Ody and has never seen the dealer after leaving it about 2 years ago. This hassle/problem free ownership and a joy to drive energetically are unbeatable! Especially the latter!
-Lack of an available manual transmission (all vans are like this though). I don't trust an automatic to last 300 000mi. And I'm still unsure about Honda autos, even after the redesign. But the DCX transmissions aren't much better history wise.
-The PRICE!! The Odyssey is ridiculously expensive in Canada (but resale is better). This is the worst thing about them.
-I hated the previous generation Odysseys. They had lots of wind and tire noise, and felt like tin.
-I don't like the plasticky interior on the DCX vans, and I don't like the transmission lever in the Odyssey. It's awkward. I would prefer floor mounted (or wheel mounted).
-Like I said before, I don't like the 3.3L in the DCX vans, but the 3.8L isn't too bad at all. It just doesn't sound nearly as sweet as the J35 in the Odyssey sounds at high RPM (this is the same, but detuned, engine in the Acura RL)
Odyssey or DCX, one thing in common is we like our vehicles.
I don't drive a minivan, but I think it's equally hilarous or even more so when people discuss the S4 & M3 in the forums. Neither car has any practical value. They're just toys for the big boys. At least this forum has SOME practical value, even if there is a lot of nonsense in this forum. Forums like the Audi S4 vs BMW M3 are about as useful as a discussion of Xbox versus Playstation 2! So go back to your playground discussions
Exactly, this heated of debate over 0-60 times, or people racing on off-ramps!!!
When I was considering an Ody, I remember tons of posts on a site with people linking instructions on how to add noise insulation to the previous Ody. The new one is a slight improvement over 2nd gen.
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL............"a few more dollars"..............LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. I know I'm the exception but there have been others, who have gotten close to $10k off Sticker, many others can easily get half of that. "A few more dollars"....LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Socalawd - you're funnier than Jay!!!!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
So why would the biggest basher get upset when someone says they don't like DCX products??
I really don't care if you like or hate DCX products but at least be honest!! When Ody owners start making baseless comments as "fact" and bashing DCX - like we see constantly on here, I'll defend DCX.
Well time to go check out the Honda problem area :lemon: - always something new there!!! (FYI - that's a FACT, not a baseless charge!!)
TOTALLY AGREE!
We minivan drivers are very sure of ourselves. We are very practical and sensible in our choices. We do not need a S4, M3/M5, etc to prop ourselves up. Without these props, the drivers of these cars would appear to fall flat on their faces. These same drivers are begging for attention - just ignore/pretend not to see them until they get the attention of Smokey with a smile on your face.
Even though I drive my Ody fast using these sports cars as my "heroes", cops have ignored my minivan while they go after my "heroes" ahead. As my mom used to say, "Heroes die on the beach, while the general stay safe and dry on the boat out in the sea".
That being said, my 1994 Grand Caravan ES with over 160K miles still keeps rolling along without any engine work, and it still has its original 4-speed ECT transmission. No engine work, no transmission work, and no other major work for over 11 years and 160K miles - not too bad I feel. My brother has experienced far more problems with his 2002 Ody, including replacement of the transmission, A/C, and other mechanical problems. I've owned Hondas in the past (Civics), but I can't complain about the good service rendered by our '94 Caravan. The cost of repair of the Civics I've owned was greater than this vehicle's repair costs.
Just one person's experience . . .
"This hassle/problem free ownership..."
If that is true....why did you post in the "Honda Odyssey: Problems and Solutions" board that you were having some problems with your front windshield defrost working properly? So, which is it mon...problem free or not?
What is even funnier is that the Crown Vic, which probably out performs the $58,000 car is only worth about $10,000.
You would have to guess cause noone posts what they pay and all my sources say 3k. Well thats not much!! For a car I will have 8 years+. Now if they are getting 10K off I know why because thats what the DCX vans are worth in that market/or if you have friends-family that work there!!
Well time to go check out the Honda problem area - always something new there!!! (FYI - that's a FACT, not a baseless charge!!)
It is because Honda people post all the time while DCX people are not as web friendly!! Heck the research on the DCX vans is below the ford!! I'll give you some real world Caravan numbers,11 trips(some repeats due to part not being there and service guy getting fired)to the dealer in 3 years(28K miles) unscheduled, 2 more to the local mech during the next 14 months!! So far none on my Ody 8K miles. Boy it's a nice van.
Tell your like and dislikes about your van or the van you like and don't knock the choices of others.
I have asked in this post two or three times for 2006 Town and Country owners to post the price that they paid for a van equivalent in options to a Odyssey EX-L. (disregard engine, trans.....) It seems to me the raison d'etre for the DC vans is that they cost so much less than the Hondas.
Please convince me. A fully loaded T&C has an MSRP of more than $36,000. How much did you pay? It is that easy.
I have asked in this post two or three times for 2006 Town and Country owners to post the price that they paid for a van equivalent in options to a Odyssey EX-L. (disregard engine, trans.....) It seems to me the raison d'etre for the DC vans is that they cost so much less than the Hondas.
Please convince me. A fully loaded T&C has an MSRP of more than $36,000. How much did you pay? It is that easy.
A-Men
Every major automotive publication/writer seems to think the Odyssey is vastly superior to the DCX vans. It is fun to read just how stupid some people think the writers are even thought the facts and figures back up the writers.
The following is for a 2005 T&C Limited. (post #173 of 282). Still does not say how much the van was but at least you get some idea without having to resort to Euclidian Geometry to figure out the cost.
Got the TnC with zero pct financing, tax, title, and additional 7/70 GE bumper to bumper warranty for about $34K. Although the car seems very tight, it was delievered with 2 flaws: no GPS antenna installed for the nav system, and right rear quarter window was out of alignment (about 1/4 inch not flush with the vehicle side). The dealership jumped right on these, but I'm feeling like the additional warranty was a good roll of the dice if we keep the car for 70K miles.
Can you elaborate? What didn't it have? What's your family size and usage, since you have both the Pacifica & Odyssey?
I drive a 1999 Intrepid, my wife drives the 2005 Pacifica. We were looking for a vehicle to replace a 1995 Suburban for mostly family trips and some hauling of large items.
I wanted the best gas mileage, the best acceleration, the best handling, the best comfort for five, the best warranty, the best re-sale value, the least hassle buying experience. I believe that is what I got with the 2006 Odyssey EX-L.
I know that no one in their right mind will pay full list price for a Chrysler, so let's go with the 4k off sticker you got. Now we are at 30,500.
Let's not forget that the Odyssey has many features not on the DCX!
5-speed auto,
244hp engine,
VCM with 20/28mpg,
Side roll-down windows (that work from the remote entry fob),
voice activated controls (a great safety feature),
heated seats,
8th person seating,
5 year 60k mile powertrain warranty,
leather wrapped shift knob,
Electronic Brake Distribution,
Stability Control (perhaps the most valuable).
This makes for a comparison that isn't really fair to either car. The DCX is the choice if the budget is first on your list, the Honda being the choice for those that want everything up to date on a van.
I have just seen new 2006 Odyssey EX-L listed her for $29,990 and other post in the Honda Odyssey prices paid section show lower prices paid down to about $28K. If you trade off some of the electronic features on the TC (which I don't want) for some of the engineering and safety features of the Odyssey (which I do want), I would say the cost is very close.
The side roll down windows that work from the remote entry fob will be greatly appreciated by thieves. :sick:
All vehicles have problems! My experience has been just the opposite....3 caravans - 2 with 70k miles each with no major problems, and none with me 2005 DGC SXT! But unlike some, I know better than to buy first model year products. I don't need to have the latest and greatest high tech troublesome gizmos to impress the neighbors. I've lost count of the Ody problem posts here (all as valid as yours) with Ody owners being back to dealer mulitple times for fix something.
DCX owners don't have to search constantly, around the country for a deal. DCX owners, while buying over 2 times the numbers of Odys, don't have problems..problems that appear to be carry over from the 2005s (windshield noise, brakes etc..)..therefore we don't have constant problems to post, ask for help on!!!
Funny how Ody owners are the ones doing most of the bashing of DCX vans, mostly putting our vans down for fuzzy, personal opinion stuff like...cheap, hard to use Stow N Go seats, quality issues, crap, junky etc... Whereas Ody owners are the ones having the most problems with real issues.