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Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
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Comments
My suggestion to buyers: touch and move everything, then consider if it feels like it will hold up for more than a couple years.
My two cents.
Also, keep in mind...you rented a rental car. Which was probably not even near the middle of the Chrysler minivan line in terms of equipment and luxury. Most rental companies have the Grand Caravan Sport model with the base package which do not come with many of the luxuries and features found in the Honda Odyssey EX and Grand Caravan EX, ES and Town & Country models. I encourage you to goto your local Chrysler dealership and sit inside a new Town & Country LXi or Limited and then tell me what you think about the quality and refinement of the interior and exterior compared to your Odyssey.
As for longevity, im sure the Honda interior, while spartan compared to that of the Town & Country, would hold up better over the course of 5 or more years.
But your right about one thing, DC minivans do look really nice on the outside...
(Just sitting in and driving my parents Sienna, I like very little about that vehicle...somehow, I didn't dislike it _that much_ when I was shopping around.)
I'll bet that the levels above rental quality are better, yes. But I can't believe that the middle and rear seats that seemed so difficult to move forward and backward are improved. For me, that is!
Just today I visited a local Dodge dealership and sat inside a new 2002 Grand Caravan ES among other cars and I would love to have one of those. I can honestly say it is an attractive minivan (oxymoron? I guess not!). The cab-forward design, honey comb grille, and 17 inch chome wheels really make it look sporty and almost sleek. Too bad the one I looked at with power everything and the 3.8 engine cost 37k dolars...
Lastly, I agree with what you said about liking very little about the Sienna. Besides it's horrid looks and small size, the interior is not nearly as ergonomically sound as that of the DC and Honda vans. An example is that the radio and air controls are practically on the floor of the van!
Don't think extra gadgets worth thousands of dollars more.
Interior-wise, same thing. Our Ody is very functional, but when I sat inside a T&C Limited, I felt downright pampered.
dave210, give us Ody owner's a break! Doesn't everyone pay MSRP for their minivan? LOL
Recalls, or Technical Service Bulletins?
Incidentally, Chrysler minivans have their own page, here:
http://www.autosafety.org/autodefects/CHRYSLER-MINIVAN.htm
The padded armrests, while useless to some, are very symbolic of Chryslers minivans versus those of Honda. Chrysler vans are more comfortable, offer more convienent features, and look much better than the Honda. The fact that even the basic Chrysler van has padded armrests says something about the level of comfort which is included in all of their models. Just sit inside a 2002 Town & Country Limited to see what I'm saying. You get a level of comfort and luxury in Chrysler vans that you certainly won't get in a Honda. Not to mention the fun to drive factor.
I just talked with a guy today who owned a green 1999 Honda Odyssey EX at the local gas station. We talked for a little bit about each others rides and what we liked and disliked about them both. He said he had 40k miles on his Odyssey and hasn't experienced any problems. Overall, he seemed very happy with his purchase and said he wouldn't hesitate to look into buying a newer 2002 model if he ever wanted a new van.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Check out http://www.alldata.com . Many vehicles, even newer ones, have dozens of TSBs. The 2002 T&C has 16 ( http://www.alldata.com/TSB/13/021309EP.html ). Perhaps current owners can comment if they have had 16 recalls on their 2002, or even experienced all 16 'defects'.
It only takes a small number of injury reports to start an NHTSA investigation, which, if verified, will result in a recall, especially for safety issues.
Incidentally, the 1999 Odyssey DID have an NHTSA safety recall for the door latches, and also one for power door related latch issues. This affected about 20,000 vehicles. About 7000 early MY 2000 Odysseys also had a door latch recall. 77,000 MY 1999-2000 Odysseys were also recalled for a faulty wire harness which could result in a blown fuse and loss of power for various systems. 31,000 MY 1999 Odysseys were also recalled for a throttle body that stuck open in extremely cold, wet weather due to ice formation. Another 79,000 MY 1999-2000 Odysseys had a dimmer failure for the instrument panel. Finally, 65 MY 2000 Odysseys were recalled for missing welds that could affect crash protection. There are no current recalls of any kind for 2001 or 2002 Odysseys.
For fairness of comparison, the 1999 T&C had an equally serious recall for front seatbelt retractors that did not comply with standards and would not adequately protect passengers in a crash. It affected 162,000 Chrysler vehicles including T&C. There was also a recall for over 1 million 1995-2000 minivans for a potential fuel leak issue relating to o-ring failure. About 100,000 MY 2001 Chrysler minivans did have a door latch failure issue as well, but only in models not equipped with remote keyless entry. A second recall for 2001 involved 42,000 units for a possible lower control arm bolt failure that could result in loss of vehicle control. There is one current recall for 2002 models, but it only involves owners manuals which did not comply with federal standards regarding LATCH and tether locations. Granted, that's not a physical vehicle defect, though I can attest to the frustration many parents have because their owner's manuals provide incomplete information on carseat installation.
"TSBs are not recalls at all, because in most cases they don't affect many vehicles and are not safety hazards"
The ones that are serious safety issues affecting many vehicles and causing actual injuries are usually recalled by manufacturer and/or government.
Again, just skim through alldata.com and see how many of the TSBs are related to serious safety hazards. Or just look at the link I provided to TSBs on the 2002 T&C. How many of those do you think are serious safety issues that should result in a recall?
1. Magic seat. Had a 72 CJ5 and a 77 Bronco, each with a fairly lightweight, removable seat. Took it out just often enough that it was a pain. Many people don't care, but it makes things a lot easier just flipping the darned thing down.
2. Automatic sliding doors. It's one step ahead when unloading or loading kids. But, I can imagine why it's a waste to others. I like it.
3. Powerful engine. What stopped me from buying an MPV.
What doesn't matter:
1. TCS. Would rather have all wheel drive (but not the drain on gas), since TCS works only <18 mph. Not enough opportunities for me to need the TCS.
2. Ability to haul flat sheets of plywood. I have no doubt that many people out there need to do this, but not me.
3. Trip-related electronics or other fanciness. Don't drive enough for this expense. A few thousand miles a year, if lucky. I've got the latest handheld and other gadgets, but only because I use them.
A huge factor was the reliability issue. Chose the Honda after owning a Civic for many years and no problems, plus checked CR (I know, lots of people don't trust them) stats. I still have too many questions about DC products, although there are many satisfied buyers out there.
"To me I doubt your radio sounds any better than mine. Of course our Caddy STS had a bose in it and I'm sure was even better than whats in your van but it doesn't sound any better than any other radio."
Of course you are not going to hear anything better from your Caddy's Bose system than your Honda's. Bose doesn't make good car audio system, their home audio is ok (good in high to med range but weak at the low). A good audio system doesn't need to be loud, in fact, a good system should be able to reproduce all the details in any volume setting. Go sit inside a DC van with the Infinity system installed and you will find out what you have be missing...and no you don't have to drive the van because we all knew you think the van will blow up anytime.
Neither van is perfect or the best. Too bad Honda didn't buy Chrysler, then we would have the best of both worlds. The best minivan would have:
Interior styling of the T&C
Honda's engine
Crash test of the Honda
Power rear doors and hatch by Chrysler
T&C's sound system & sound insulation
T&C's driver's seat
Honda's middle seats
Honda's magic seat which splits ala T&C
I would not take anyone else's features other than Mazda's sunroof and the Sienna's transmission. Chrysler's newly improved transmission is only at par with Honda's mediocre transmission. As to general quality, Honda is notably better than D/C, but the Ody is not upto the Civic and Accord standards.
As to exterior styling, IT'S A MINIVAN.
btw, if you compose in Notepad, you won't have all the garbage Microsoft SmartQuotes characters that get pasted in (or just turn off SmartQuotes in Word).
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
As for audio systems, the DC Infinity System is much better than the Odyssey. No question. It is one of the things I miss most in my Odyssey. As an aside, I rented a Cadillac recently. It had a sound system that was better than the Infinity. I was really impressed with it.
sweingast, you have just designed the perfect minivan! Call Toyota before the '03 Sienna is finalized, they need you. Only one disagreement. I test drove the Sienna, and think the Ody 5-spd tranny is better. But I am used to Hondas, so that might be personal (like anything on this board isn't LOL).
Regarding stereos -- our van replaced my wife's Maxima with a Bose system. $$$ to replace one of those amplified speakers. Very UNIMPRESSED with overall quality. Highs and lows all muted. My '88 Civic sounds way better, with less than $400 invested in Kenwood CD and 4 Kenwood speakers. 4aodge, I agree w/lots of your posts, but not about Ody stereo. While I agree the T&C is better, I too like loud rock (and country and classical), and the Ody stereo is fine. It's no Mark Levison, but it gets the job done. I'm sure the optional subwoofer would be even better.
I like the Infinity system alot but it is far from being the best stock system out there. It gives really good bass and the sound quality is very clear although a little more power at high volume would be appreciated. Overall it is a great system and is well worth the 700 bucks you pay to get it. Edmunds even rated it over the Sienna with the JBL system in their 2001 minivan test.
You are very right about speaker placement, but especially for tweeters. Midrange less so, and bass can be placed anywhere. Good news with tweeters is they are small and a custom installer can usually "squeeze them in" somewhere. That's if you can stomach someone, er, "modifying" your dash or door panel. That was an easy decision in my old Pontiac wagon in college, not so easy with the wife's brand new '02 EX-L. ;-)
So, overall, you are probably right, tomtomtom -- just pay the $700 and be done! LOL. I agree that with such a large, multi-speakered vehicle, this is the easy option, and in this case a quality one. Despite everything I just said, if the Ody had such an upgrade, I probably would have just taken it, too. Now, for my future new truck, that's another story.....
I agree, it is much easier to install stuff in your own car. Otherwise, the wife would ask why you put that round/dome things on the door panel and why there is a big black tube in the trunk.
The box in the back of my old wagon was so big, I couldn't even get the spare tire out. Shows you where my priorities were in college.
I'll take that internet retailer, just post the link. Thanks, tomtomtom!
http://www.autotoys.com/
30K summary
Miles Covered: 29,913
Running Cost : $2,767.49
Running Cost per mile: 9.25 cents
Gas consumed: 1,460 Gallons
Cost of Gas: $2,030.57
Average Economy: 20.5 MPG
Best: 28.1 MPG
Worst: 13.4 MPG
Maintenance Cost: $736.92
Maintenance Cost per mile: 2.1 cents
Gas Cost: $2030.57
Gas Cost per mile: 6.8 cents
Miscellaneous costs: 0.35 cents per mile
(Still working on Total Cost of Ownership with depreciation and insurance)
I was trying to figure what I liked and disliked about these vehicles in terms non-minivan owners might understand. BMW fun to drive with all the toys, expensive and may need the attention of a good mechanic. Volvo nice, equipped with the things you need, always a little safer.
Town&Country "The ultimate driver's minivan" Sounds kinda funny about a minivan, but this vehicle is almost fun to drive. It is only one that could put a grin on your face pulling out from a stop or going around a turn.
Honda "Built like a rock and looks like one too" or to quote a Dudly Moore movie "Vovlo we maybe boxy, but we are safe" This vehicle is as plain and utiltarian as they come. But then again, ITS A MINIVAN ... what do you expect. Why does one need all that luxury stuff is a kid mobile?
Both BMW's and Volvo's are great cars. They appeal to different types of buyers.
My wife and I drive a BMW 328i (to become a 530i in a couple of weeks) and a Dodge Caravan (soon to become a T&C).
For our needs, wants, desires and tastes, we would not even consider a competitive Volvo, nor would we consider the Odyssey, and for almost exactly the reasons that you list above.
Best Regards,
Shipo
We have owned a 1989 Accord (196k)for 13 years and a 94 Plmouth Voyager (140k)for 7 years, before buying and ODY last September.
All service for the Accord has been done by the local Honda dealership. They have a far more convenient service department, better hours, free cab ride to work,(not one van for everybody to ride in like the Plymouth shop) and more responsive staff.
After 190K miles the alternator went out on the Accord on a Saturday morning, the Honda dealership replaced it that day by 3p.m. even though he thought they couldn't get to it till Monday. They patch tires for free, install light bulbs for free.
Also as far as peace of mind, the Honda didn't have the transmission go out at 60k like the Voyager, a warranted repair, but still, no free loaner during the 4 day repair; along with several other annoying $200 service bills, during one stretch is one every five months.
One more note about the Honda, we love the hidden third seat and overall comfort. We just completed a trip south last week and everyone was safe and comfortable.
I can't believe that the same people are posting the same things nearly a year later. This may be the most acrimony laden board around outside of a Toyota full sized pickup owner trying to have a constructive post on the pickup boards.
Subaru boards are the best. I don't think I've seen a single flame there.
Thank you new posters for actual comparisons of pros and cons of these two vans.
Still enjoying the Odyssey.
#51 of 54 by pat84 Apr 05, 2002 (06:09 am)
I owned a 96 Grand Caravan, drive a 99 Odyssey, and have rented several Standard length DC's and 1 Windstar. The Windstar had 7 miles on it when I drove it off the rental lot. Each van has its own advantages and disadvantages. If you want the maximum in creature comforts and good tight handling more like a sports car, buy a DC product. If you want the most room for a tall driver get the Windstar. Unfortunately it has the sloppiest handling of the three. If you want handling and a ride that is more like a smooth riding car, get the Odyssey. Compared to the DC vans the Odyssey is a little boring. I have had no problems with my Odyssey in 55 K miles.
I have never driven the MPV, or Quest, Sienna or Sedona.
Anyone interested in buying a minivan should first decide on the
size. If one can live with the shorter versions, there are more selections. I would recommend that potential buyer test drive any vans that seem to meet the requirements. Do not expect to find an Odyssey to test drive.
One last piece of advice. If you only looked at the problems sections at Edmund's you would never drive anything. There are dissatisfied customers for every van out there.
I purposely waited a week to start this line. Pat 84 gave a fair assessment of the Grand Caravan while owning a Honda. Starting a post "Have you graduated high school yet?" does not help in the creation of "constructive" posts.
By the way, I graduated high school 17 years ago, have a '97 Subaru Legacy Outback and have been trying to find out if I could add an aftermarket sunroof with the Outback's curved roof.
Steve
Host
SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
Our Town & Country is quite fun to drive, especially for a minivan. The reviewers at edmunds.com seem to agree and I think the driving experience is one reason DC minivans sell so well. It's not like driving an appliance or just a big box as in the case of other minivans. Our van currently has 40k trouble-free miles.
I was glad edmunds finally had something good to say about their long-term Grand Caravan ES which is proving to be a fairly reliable machine. A long-term road test of the Grand Caravan ES in MotorTrend magazine also gives the van good marks, especially for comfort and convienence features.
Afterall, it says something about a Town & Country when a seventeen year old and his friends don't mind being seen in it...