You draw your opinions from 2 guys, I draw mine from hundreds of technicians that I've supervised...
I.e. - "don't make baseless generalizations."
...go ask the service writer at your local Pep Boys - he's probably like the two guys at my local Pep Boys...because their standards are lower and the job isn't so "technical".
I.e. - "but it's okay for me to make baseless generalizations."
If you're going to come down so hard on someone who makes a casual generalization at least you should cover your own backside! :-)
Sorry to cut into this very interesting argument but I have a much simpler question. Anybody knows if you can get the leather wrapped steering wheel as a dealer option or does it need to be installed at the factory? I ordered mine without because I thaught it was coming with the 1sb package (not in Canada).
Tblazed, don't you miss the technical discussions we've had in the past. None of this acrimony about the merits or lack of merits of mechanics. Dealer mechanics will always be around. GM quality (?) will insure their jobs for many years to come, or at least 36 k miles from the last sale of a car. Personally I feel better going to the dealer with my TB, even for oil changes. It's easy to put the responsibility on the correct party if only one party has had their hands on the car. Would someone please answer this question. Does a dealership make more money on the sales floor or in the repair shop?
service manager is that my heavy line guys (engines and transmissions) ALWAYS had at least one engine job from a "party foul" at Jiffy Lube, Wal-Mart, Q-Lube, etc.
It was nice money for us...they'd call, with a depressed tone, we'd order the engine, have the vehicle towed in, retail prices....it was great for everyone except the owner of the vehicle (they were getting reman motors) and the tech that forgot to add oil, left the drain plug out, forgot to fully tighten the filter, forgot to remove the rubber filter gasket from the old filter.....
I have an Envoy and all service has been done at the dealership. After having tires rotated, one center cap fell off and was lost - another was on wrong but I discovered and corrected before it fell off. Called service manager and got no hassle at ordering another one at no cost. Went in for replacement and it too was put on wrong. While several methods look correct, only one way properly lines up in the intended slotted position. Don't know if the mechanic was ASE but probably wouldn't have done any worse at PB.
Would hate to have that mechanic work on something complicated.
The dealership is stonewalling on this problem with my '03 Trailblazer. Has anyone had this problem sucessfully resolved or has anyone had the car returned under a lemon law? I last purchased a GM product 28 years ago-of course this is my last. Thanks. P.S. The vibes are only one of many problems w/the truck.
Our '03 Bravada and "99 300M get all their service at dealerships. Besides the obvious issue of warranty work, the hardware is hi-tech compared to our older vehicles, so the knowledge base isn't yet widely distributed.
I always type up a description of the problem, the symptoms, and the conditions under which it occurs, and provide it to the service advisor. Some staple it to the job order for the mechanic. Some don't and rewrite my words on the ticket. Others try to short-hand the description on the ticket. The latter generally provide an unsatisfactory outcome for our visit and I seek other service centers for my next service.
In addition, the dealership technicians are primarily parts changers. Yeah, they are well trained and highly skilled at replacing those parts. But, for the most part, they don't have highly developed troubleshooting skills. Probably because the service routine is oriented toward picking the most likely suspect and replacing it, hoping the problem will go away. They get better at picking the right suspect when the factory engineers send them a TSB with the correct answer or my problem and symptoms description is accurate enough to point them to the offending part.
Our older vehicles get serviced in independent shops that we identify through recommendations and by trial and error. Besides the lower cost, these shops generally have personnel with more experience and well developed troubleshooting skills. Thus the problem gets fixed the first time at a more reasonable cost. Frankly, I don't care if the mechanic had a DUI. As Lincoln said about U. S. Grant, "find out what he's drinking and give a case to rest of my generals".
As to the Goodyears, Firestones, and Midases (the only franchise shops I've used over the past 40 years), I wouldn't trust most of them to do anything more than an oil change. The quality of personnel is uneven and some push the envelope on outright fraud.
be gone but we will see i haven't done a full day of chores in it yet. They replaced the line bracket and the rear stabilizer shaft so we will see . Also while making a K turn I heard a popping he lubed the wheel stops. While it was there it also had License plate seal on rear compartment replaced and the bulbs in the tail lights replaced along with the lamp exterior replaced the 3rd high brake light was replaced due to discoloring . they did not do anything about the long scratches on my windows but it was put in the file so there would be no charge upon return. my last problem was really just a question for them and the weather stripping around the windows they say it is normal to leave it alone .all in all a better experience where the dealership actually sounded like they cared about you as a customer and i was treated much better sometimes that is all it takes . i must say even if the thing is still broken i would recommend this dealership just on that fact.
issue is something I argue about in court - it's very important to document the customer's complaint accurately since the technician needs to know, first hand, what's going on so he knows where to look.
Then again, there's the problem of getting car symptoms from a customer with absolutely no mechanical training (complaints like "it goes chug, chug, chug when I do 'this', is that the air conditioning?"). While this description gives a basic place to start (hopefully), it's far from "proper direction".
Many consumers automatically feel that because they own a car and skimmed through the owner's manual, they are now some sort of mechanic. I can't count the number of times a customer has already had a problem "diagnosed" because either he, or the old dude next door, already figured it out.
Problem is, neither the customer nor the old dude next door have ever worked on a fuel injected car or know what OBD-II is.
The DUI issue has nothing to do with the competence of a mechanic, except for a passion for drinking, but it bears strongly on the dealership's ability to insure them while working. If they can't road test your car to diagnose your problem, they can't do a very good job for you or the dealer.
Can't say I haven't tried to get somethiing stirred up here- brake lights failing, pedal vibes, and knock at hot-startup are 3 examples. Heck, it took me several HOURS to finally succeed getting that picture of the burned up bulb contacts to post correctly! Then after reading comments that this board is dead, nothing much going on here etc., someone new shows up and gets this otherwise "dead" forum going, (after being directed over here from another board) only to get directed to get back on "topic". Not complaining- just an observation.
"K" turn?? Maybe that's where you don't quite have enough room for a traditional "U" turn, have to head in to the curb, stop, back up, and then go forward, to complete the about-face?? (Couldn't resist! )
Other than zueslewis has anyone else heard of or been around blown up triplet engines?Are there any indicator symptoms or does it just happen?Can a pre-check be made by the dealership?Are the engines from one batch or just random?Why,what,where,and when?
I do hope someone at NHTSA was watching "Dateline-NBC" last night about auto theft. It doesn't matter what they do to prevent a shift out of PARK. All the thief needs is a tow truck...
to be an anti-theft system - it's more for prevention on someone's rug rats getting in the vehicle and taking it out of gear and rolling into traffic.
Ask me how I know....(1967, Jim was in grandpa's 1966 Ford Galaxy, playing road racer, pulled down on the gearshift and rolled into the street and into the Baptist Church parking lot. My cool aunt grabbed grandpa's keys and moved the car back into the driveway before anyone found out - still owe her for that one!)
I saw that too and thought the very same thing. The recall to "fix" the override will only be an inconvenience/headache to owners who have car trouble and not a deterrent to potential theives who are intent upon stealing it.
zueslewis: I'm not sure you're quite up to speed on the Tranny Override Issue. The day that my four-year-old figures out that while playing Road Racer, he can just squeeze the clips that hold the fake leather boot in place around the gear shift selector to remove the boot, then press and hold the tranny override lever with one hand while engaging the gear shift selector with the other hand, I believe is the day I give him the keys and let him drive.
Funny thing is with all this publicity now everyone knows it exists! It's not in my Owner's Manual but the release method is in the Service Manual.
That shift boot is pretty well secured though. I thought I might break something before it finally pulled up when I checked it out. It would take a pretty clever kid to figure out without any knowledge that there was anything under there in the first place. But yes I can relate.. I remember when I shifted my Dad's '55 Cadillac out of Park while he and Mom were unloading grocerys. That panicked look as he chased it and me down the driveway.. was too easy. Of course in those days with metal dashboards and no seat belts, I used to ride in his lap as we drove. And I am still alive today.
Seems like all they would have to to to make it comply as-is would be to add a trim piece around the base of the boot held in place with one small screw.
My post was concerning the original intent for the park lock systems.
As an automotive engineer, a court-appointed automotive expert, an ASE certified mechanic, and car biz finance and sales manager and a hard-core car enthusiast since age 4, I can assure you I'm "up on" the issue.
Then again, there's the problem of getting car symptoms from a customer with absolutely no mechanical training...
There's a flip side to this. They automatically assume you don't know anything about cars. It may be a small percentage, but there are those of us who know what we're talking about.
Case in point, I told them the cooling fan of my Trailblazer would come on during the highway at times. True, I was going through the mountains but I further explained that the temp gauge showed the normal 210 and that it was 40 degrees outside. I received a dismissive answer about how it was designed to come on. I was pretty clear about this. I wasn't complaining about something like a mysterious noise or vibration.
It was realling buring me up, because it wasn't like I could take one of them up into the mountains to experience just how annoying it was. Luckily, the next time it happened, the service engine light came on. I took it in, they replaced the fan clutch, and it hasn't happened since. Seems they can't argue with that service engine light.
I was agreeing that it was silly, and I know of many vehicles with the ability to insert a key or other object in a slot and release the vehicle from park - worked well for me when I towed part time.
No need for the sarcasm, either, since I responded to your accusatory tone implying that I didn't know what I was talking about.
I'll say that I respect whatever it is you do for a living, and surely don't know as much about your job as you do - when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument.
I know what you mean - I really enjoyed it when someone came in who knew more than an average amount about vehicles. It made my job easier, they usually were more understanding and didn't freak out over the "processes" of things, like "you mean it's going to take 2 days to order a transmission and another day to put it in??!! - the guys at AAMCO say they can replace a transmission in an hour!"
".....I responded to your accusatory tone implying that I didn't know what I was talking about."
First off: I was not implying that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was suggesting that maybe you've joined the discussion a bit late and hadn't gotten "up to speed" on this particular recall and, more specifically, why we, the owners of these vehicles, are bothered by it.
No sarcasm intended. Perhaps you read a bit too much into my statement or perhaps I could've worded it differently?
".....when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument. "
Secondly: Huh? "Schoolyard argument"? You got that from my pointing out the specifics on the NHTSA recall?
Enough of this. Can we talk about the Triplets now?
I've been around here for several years and have established myself as someone who truly cares about consumers - in my position, I'm happy to say that I have a largely contributing role in the outcome of lemon law and breach of warranty cases.
I have to prove myself every time I go into court, just to be allowed to testify - forgive that fact that I'm a little sensitive, especially in a public forum that our opponent attorneys read (my posts and topics) when I feel someone indicates I don't know what I'm doing.
With me, unlike yourself or others, that type of statement/implication can substantially harm my career.
Triplets? One of my other investigators has a new Envoy - loves it, but it's had the engine replaced.
If you're concerned about substantial harm to your career through your participation on this board, then perhaps you should not be participating. Also, your condesending tone towards others on this board is not productive. It's fun to see everyone getting worked up here, but it's mostly off-topic. Maybe this conversation needs to be moved to another board.
I'm interested in the upcoming Envoy XUV. I've been following this board to get a sense of owners' experiences with these trucks, since I expect the XUV will have much in common with these vehicles. Lately, there hasn't been much of that. Instead, a contributor named zueslewis who's admitted sensitivities have him defending his credentials and reputation as "someone who cares" rather than defending his facts and opinions about the Triplets. This isn't a courtroom, and no one has to prove their expertise to anyone here. I'll just come later when y'all get back to talking about the topic.
There appears to be darker colored "bits" in my expansion tank rather than it being a uniform color. I am sure it is not motor oil! It appears that something happened to the coolant over time, and it appears to be discolored. I am scheduling a service/maintenance appointment for my Envoy, and I was wondering if I should have my coolant system flushed and re-filled? Should I use the standard GM coolant again, or request some other type of coolant fluid? My Envoy has 20,000 miles.
My TB does that, so does my friends. Some sort of outgassing in the new engine I guess. Sure can't hurt to bring that to the dealer's attention and get it documented though. If you can get them to flush and refill under warranty that would be great. (If you can get them to use distilled or de-ionized water for the mix that's even better.) A couple of months ago I cleaned out 99% of the accumulated gunk around the inside of the top of the reservoir with a home-made flexible swab I made out of a piece of heavy gage aluminum ground wire and pieces of paper towel. (That coolant tank isn't as easy to remove to clean out as the one on my old S-10.) It hasn't built up any more since. Doesn't leak or use any after I topped it to the full-cold mark a couple of months ago. GM will void your warranty for anything related to the cooling system if you use anything other than the GM or Texaco Dexcool non-silicate stuff. I think it says that in the owners manual.
Dittos spdmtr5. Thanks for your input zueslewis and your offer! I appreciate different and new information sources. Also glad to see you are in Texas. You should be familiar with Texas consumer and lemon law. My potential problem is the way the Texas law is written, because I happened to wind up buying my TrailBlazer in OK City when a salesman at a local dealer totally dropped the ball, lost the sale, and I had to go get it. I paid the taxes to Texas at title and registration, but didn't actually BUY it in Texas. I hope I don't have to find out the hard way what I unknowingly did. So far, so good. These internet dealers ought to warn you that you might be giving up your rights under state law if you buy a car out of state.
I have talked about my problem with the vibrating gas pedal adnauseum on this thread. So much so Tidester is ready to yank my posting privlages if I mention it again. Ill sum it in 3 words as per the not helpful GM zone rep for western New York, "LIVE WITH IT".
P.S. I am enjoying having zueslewis doing all this posting. Its amazing how much more posting activity there is since he has been here. Welcome, and if you ask me, I think you are on topic!
One more point, GMAC has pulled out of New York with Ford credit right behind as far as leasing goes. The bank gets sued along with the lessee with every accident even though the bank has nothing to do with it. Until they fix the law written for horse drawn cabs in 1920, no more leases here. I will have to change my name to 2yearcarbuyonly if we dont get action soon.
2yearleaseonly while I was looking uder the dash for any potential abraded or pinched wires I looked at the gas pedal and the way it's mounted. It basically hangs out there on an L-shaped bracet that bolts on around the base of the steering column. If you thump or bump it, it resonates "thummmm thummmmmm... " Sure seems like it would be easy for one of GM's top notch Noise and Vibration engineers to come up with a simple reinforcing bracket to stop that. It's pretty easy to see. Two screws and the panel that hides it will come down. I think when the engine-drivetrain hits that particular resonant frequency it causes that pedal-bracket assy to vibrate. On mine I feel it but only under certain load and RPM conditions and it's minor to me. Just a few thoughts on the ongoing vibrating pedal saga.
There certainly is a lot of activity. But I don't think a lemon law discussion is "on-topic." The discussion is "Chevy Trailblazer,..." I must be in the wrong room. :-)
Seems to have been discussed here many times in the past. Guess we'd better save server space for more important topics. I actually thought someone might learn from my possible mistake that you might give up certain rights buying a new vehicle out of state.
I only live in Texas part of time - most of the time I'm in Lansdale, PA.
And by the way, even with as much as I like the GM triplets, considering the number of lemon law cases involving them that I've seen, it definitely IS on topic.
tblazed: I'm sure you've heard the "taxation without representation" outcry. It seems to me that if you pay the oversized state of Texas a sales tax upon purchasing a vehicle, even if the purchase is from out of state, you should be entitled to something for your taxes. Contact your state Attorney General office and see if they agree. If they don't agree then at least you will have them thinking about it. BTW I have been offering harmonic resonance as a possible cause of the vibration for some time now. glad to have you aboard on that one.
Just an update on my issue incase anyone else has the same issue now or in the future:
My '03 Envoy has an intermittent, annoying "stutter" at idle (in drive). Feels like an engine miss - but the RPMS don't fluctuate at all. Happens when stopped for a long red light; seems to take over 30 seconds to happen. Intermittent - haven't been able to find any pattern to the behavior.
It's been in the shop 6 times for this problem. This time my husband was able to talk to the mechanic (who was knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful) and the mechanic admitted that they are currently working on 5-6 Envoys with this same issue. The mechanic hoped the spark plug replacement done 2 days ago (per GM's TAC) would resolve the issue, but it didn't.
And the best part: they gave us a brand new '03 Envoy as a loaner for the day. And it had the SAME STUTTER PROBLEM!!
The Service Advisor left it at "you'll have to wait until it gets worse". But we'll be calling the GMC Consumer Relations people tomorrow to log the issue. Hopefully they've had enough reports of this problem that they have someone working on a fix.
I hope the information is helpful to someone. This forum is usually a good exchange of information amongst Triplet owners.
Zueslewis: My posting regarding Service Department procedures was based on MY experiences and was my way to vent my frustrations. I don't care how much experience you have, that doesn't mean my observations are invalid.
"I'm sure you've heard the "taxation without representation" outcry." My sentiments exactly. Hopefully my TrailBlazer will continue to be a good buy for me ( on topic) and I won't have to find out the hard way what I may have given up. Odd to me that out-of-state mail order or internet sales aren't taxed by the state for exactly that "representation" issue, unless the seller has an entity in that state, but vehicle sales are different.
"...oversized state of Texas..." : bigger is better! Lower cost of living and NO state income tax. Pretty nice if you ask me. Homeowner's insurance (at least in north TX) will beat you to death though. I have tried and tried to get my fellow native Texans to secede from the union and run everybody off that's moved here since 1980. but nobody will listen.
With over 5K miles on our '03 Envoy XL we are still very happy with this vehicle! We have only had 1 issue so far - a low pressure valve went bad and caused the A/C to blow warm air. The ride is comfortable, the interior is quiet, and the cargo room is huge. Other vehicles that we looked at were the Pilot and Highlander, but I'm glad we decided on the Envoy.
The OKC tornado last night hit the GM factory there that makes the extended Envoy & Trailblazer. The helecopter views were sad seeing the transport trucks loaded with them all torn up! Hope no one here was about to have their new one shipped out from the factory! This may delay the new Envoy XUV.
Haven't checked the eye on the battery since. Thankfully the weather warmed up and I got my basement situated and thus my garage somewhat back in order
Now that things have been spring-like, the vehicle starts right up. I'll check it though and keep you posted.
It's gotta last 12 more months...as that's when my lease ends.
Well I got news of the Tornado, it ripped the paint dept. off the map at OK, the place that assembles Some of the TB's, The plant was changing over to assemble new ISUZU ASENDER, And the the SUX Envoy due out.
I also got a close up look at the new I-5 GM is putting in the Chevy Colorado, and GMC, and small SUV. I have got to say, the facility they built along with the engine are highly impressive!!!!!!!, 215 hp out of a I5! WOW! The new Colorado, gmc, is simply awesome looking!!!
Basically, the I5 is a sawed version of the I6 we all have, let me say beefy, awesome technolgy, smooth, yet a simple design! Aluminum block with cast iron sleeves!
I remember a post a while back where someone said the sleeves on the cylinder walls were thin? NO WAY JOSE! I had the chance to see the new assemby plant, simply put, GM is getting their crap together!!!!
Comments
I.e. - "don't make baseless generalizations."
...go ask the service writer at your local Pep Boys - he's probably like the two guys at my local Pep Boys...because their standards are lower and the job isn't so "technical".
I.e. - "but it's okay for me to make baseless generalizations."
If you're going to come down so hard on someone who makes a casual generalization at least you should cover your own backside! :-)
Better yet, let's stick to the topic.
tidester, host
"What do they call the person who finished last in his class at medical school?"
"Doctor"
I rate my qualifications to make a comment like that on many, many more than 2 guys - those 2 at PBs were just an example.
Would someone please answer this question.
Does a dealership make more money on the sales floor or in the repair shop?
Frank
It was nice money for us...they'd call, with a depressed tone, we'd order the engine, have the vehicle towed in, retail prices....it was great for everyone except the owner of the vehicle (they were getting reman motors) and the tech that forgot to add oil, left the drain plug out, forgot to fully tighten the filter, forgot to remove the rubber filter gasket from the old filter.....
Wouldn't that be really cool if Garrett would develop one of those electric aftermarket turbos for our 4.2L?
Dean
Would hate to have that mechanic work on something complicated.
No, I'm not generalizing - just a comment
I always type up a description of the problem, the symptoms, and the conditions under which it occurs, and provide it to the service advisor. Some staple it to the job order for the mechanic. Some don't and rewrite my words on the ticket. Others try to short-hand the description on the ticket. The latter generally provide an unsatisfactory outcome for our visit and I seek other service centers for my next service.
In addition, the dealership technicians are primarily parts changers. Yeah, they are well trained and highly skilled at replacing those parts. But, for the most part, they don't have highly developed troubleshooting skills. Probably because the service routine is oriented toward picking the most likely suspect and replacing it, hoping the problem will go away. They get better at picking the right suspect when the factory engineers send them a TSB with the correct answer or my problem and symptoms description is accurate enough to point them to the offending part.
Our older vehicles get serviced in independent shops that we identify through recommendations and by trial and error. Besides the lower cost, these shops generally have personnel with more experience and well developed troubleshooting skills. Thus the problem gets fixed the first time at a more reasonable cost. Frankly, I don't care if the mechanic had a DUI. As Lincoln said about U. S. Grant, "find out what he's drinking and give a case to rest of my generals".
As to the Goodyears, Firestones, and Midases (the only franchise shops I've used over the past 40 years), I wouldn't trust most of them to do anything more than an oil change. The quality of personnel is uneven and some push the envelope on outright fraud.
My 2 cents.
License plate seal on rear compartment replaced and the bulbs in the tail lights replaced along with the lamp exterior replaced
the 3rd high brake light was replaced due to discoloring . they did not do anything about the long scratches on my windows but it was put in the file so there would be no charge upon return.
my last problem was really just a question for them and the weather stripping around the windows they say it is normal to leave it alone .all in all a better experience where the dealership actually sounded like they cared about you as a customer and i was treated much better sometimes that is all it takes . i must say even if the thing is still broken i would recommend this dealership just on that fact.
Then again, there's the problem of getting car symptoms from a customer with absolutely no mechanical training (complaints like "it goes chug, chug, chug when I do 'this', is that the air conditioning?"). While this description gives a basic place to start (hopefully), it's far from "proper direction".
Many consumers automatically feel that because they own a car and skimmed through the owner's manual, they are now some sort of mechanic. I can't count the number of times a customer has already had a problem "diagnosed" because either he, or the old dude next door, already figured it out.
Problem is, neither the customer nor the old dude next door have ever worked on a fuel injected car or know what OBD-II is.
The DUI issue has nothing to do with the competence of a mechanic, except for a passion for drinking, but it bears strongly on the dealership's ability to insure them while working. If they can't road test your car to diagnose your problem, they can't do a very good job for you or the dealer.
"K" turn?? Maybe that's where you don't quite have enough room for a traditional "U" turn, have to head in to the curb, stop, back up, and then go forward, to complete the about-face?? (Couldn't resist! )
Ask me how I know....(1967, Jim was in grandpa's 1966 Ford Galaxy, playing road racer, pulled down on the gearshift and rolled into the street and into the Baptist Church parking lot. My cool aunt grabbed grandpa's keys and moved the car back into the driveway before anyone found out - still owe her for that one!)
zueslewis: I'm not sure you're quite up to speed on the Tranny Override Issue. The day that my four-year-old figures out that while playing Road Racer, he can just squeeze the clips that hold the fake leather boot in place around the gear shift selector to remove the boot, then press and hold the tranny override lever with one hand while engaging the gear shift selector with the other hand, I believe is the day I give him the keys and let him drive.
That shift boot is pretty well secured though. I thought I might break something before it finally pulled up when I checked it out. It would take a pretty clever kid to figure out without any knowledge that there was anything under there in the first place. But yes I can relate.. I remember when I shifted my Dad's '55 Cadillac out of Park while he and Mom were unloading grocerys. That panicked look as he chased it and me down the driveway.. was too easy. Of course in those days with metal dashboards and no seat belts, I used to ride in his lap as we drove. And I am still alive today.
Seems like all they would have to to to make it comply as-is would be to add a trim piece around the base of the boot held in place with one small screw.
As an automotive engineer, a court-appointed automotive expert, an ASE certified mechanic, and car biz finance and sales manager and a hard-core car enthusiast since age 4, I can assure you I'm "up on" the issue.
The purpose of the recall is to address a perceived "Theft Protection" issue. Apparently the NHTSA's expert opinion is somewhat different than yours.
There's a flip side to this. They automatically assume you don't know anything about cars. It may be a small percentage, but there are those of us who know what we're talking about.
Case in point, I told them the cooling fan of my Trailblazer would come on during the highway at times. True, I was going through the mountains but I further explained that the temp gauge showed the normal 210 and that it was 40 degrees outside. I received a dismissive answer about how it was designed to come on. I was pretty clear about this. I wasn't complaining about something like a mysterious noise or vibration.
It was realling buring me up, because it wasn't like I could take one of them up into the mountains to experience just how annoying it was.
Luckily, the next time it happened, the service engine light came on. I took it in, they replaced the fan clutch, and it hasn't happened since. Seems they can't argue with that service engine light.
No need for the sarcasm, either, since I responded to your accusatory tone implying that I didn't know what I was talking about.
I'll say that I respect whatever it is you do for a living, and surely don't know as much about your job as you do - when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument.
First off: I was not implying that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was suggesting that maybe you've joined the discussion a bit late and hadn't gotten "up to speed" on this particular recall and, more specifically, why we, the owners of these vehicles, are bothered by it.
No sarcasm intended. Perhaps you read a bit too much into my statement or perhaps I could've worded it differently?
".....when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument. "
Secondly: Huh? "Schoolyard argument"? You got that from my pointing out the specifics on the NHTSA recall?
Enough of this. Can we talk about the Triplets now?
I have to prove myself every time I go into court, just to be allowed to testify - forgive that fact that I'm a little sensitive, especially in a public forum that our opponent attorneys read (my posts and topics) when I feel someone indicates I don't know what I'm doing.
With me, unlike yourself or others, that type of statement/implication can substantially harm my career.
Triplets? One of my other investigators has a new Envoy - loves it, but it's had the engine replaced.
PS. Thank you to nuyorkah for TSB#03-08-52-002.
P.S. I am enjoying having zueslewis doing all this posting. Its amazing how much more posting activity there is since he has been here. Welcome, and if you ask me, I think you are on topic!
One more point, GMAC has pulled out of New York with Ford credit right behind as far as leasing goes. The bank gets sued along with the lessee with every accident even though the bank has nothing to do with it. Until they fix the law written for horse drawn cabs in 1920, no more leases here. I will have to change my name to 2yearcarbuyonly if we dont get action soon.
And by the way, even with as much as I like the GM triplets, considering the number of lemon law cases involving them that I've seen, it definitely IS on topic.
BTW I have been offering harmonic resonance as a possible cause of the vibration for some time now. glad to have you aboard on that one.
Frank
My '03 Envoy has an intermittent, annoying "stutter" at idle (in drive). Feels like an engine miss - but the RPMS don't fluctuate at all. Happens when stopped for a long red light; seems to take over 30 seconds to happen. Intermittent - haven't been able to find any pattern to the behavior.
It's been in the shop 6 times for this problem. This time my husband was able to talk to the mechanic (who was knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful) and the mechanic admitted that they are currently working on 5-6 Envoys with this same issue. The mechanic hoped the spark plug replacement done 2 days ago (per GM's TAC) would resolve the issue, but it didn't.
And the best part: they gave us a brand new '03 Envoy as a loaner for the day. And it had the SAME STUTTER PROBLEM!!
The Service Advisor left it at "you'll have to wait until it gets worse". But we'll be calling the GMC Consumer Relations people tomorrow to log the issue. Hopefully they've had enough reports of this problem that they have someone working on a fix.
I hope the information is helpful to someone. This forum is usually a good exchange of information amongst Triplet owners.
Zueslewis: My posting regarding Service Department procedures was based on MY experiences and was my way to vent my frustrations. I don't care how much experience you have, that doesn't mean my observations are invalid.
Let's just all get along.
"My TB only vibrates over 295 MPH, but I think that's mostly from wind drag. Maybe removing my luggage crossbars would help"
295 mph? I am still trying to figure out how to get a triplet to go that fast. With my 3.42 gears at 6000 rpm the top speed would be only about 220.
"...oversized state of Texas..." : bigger is better! Lower cost of living and NO state income tax. Pretty nice if you ask me. Homeowner's insurance (at least in north TX) will beat you to death though. I have tried and tried to get my fellow native Texans to secede from the union and run everybody off that's moved here since 1980. but nobody will listen.
Now that things have been spring-like, the vehicle starts right up. I'll check it though and keep you posted.
It's gotta last 12 more months...as that's when my lease ends.
MSN Money
Sounds like a lot of clean-up is going to be needed at the factory and production may be down for a while.
Steve, Host
Well I got news of the Tornado, it ripped the paint dept. off the map at OK, the place that assembles Some of the TB's, The plant was changing over to assemble new ISUZU ASENDER, And the the SUX Envoy due out.
I also got a close up look at the new I-5 GM is putting in the Chevy Colorado, and GMC, and small SUV. I have got to say, the facility they built along with the engine are highly impressive!!!!!!!, 215 hp out of a I5! WOW! The new Colorado, gmc, is simply awesome looking!!!
Basically, the I5 is a sawed version of the I6 we all have, let me say beefy, awesome technolgy, smooth, yet a simple design! Aluminum block with cast iron sleeves!
I remember a post a while back where someone said the sleeves on the cylinder walls were thin? NO WAY JOSE! I had the chance to see the new assemby plant, simply put, GM is getting their crap together!!!!