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Comments
I.e. - "don't make baseless generalizations."
...go ask the service writer at your local Pep Boys - he's probably like the two guys at my local Pep Boys...because their standards are lower and the job isn't so "technical".
I.e. - "but it's okay for me to make baseless generalizations."
If you're going to come down so hard on someone who makes a casual generalization at least you should cover your own backside! :-)
Better yet, let's stick to the topic.
tidester, host
"What do they call the person who finished last in his class at medical school?"
"Doctor"
I rate my qualifications to make a comment like that on many, many more than 2 guys - those 2 at PBs were just an example.
Would someone please answer this question.
Does a dealership make more money on the sales floor or in the repair shop?
Frank
It was nice money for us...they'd call, with a depressed tone, we'd order the engine, have the vehicle towed in, retail prices....it was great for everyone except the owner of the vehicle (they were getting reman motors) and the tech that forgot to add oil, left the drain plug out, forgot to fully tighten the filter, forgot to remove the rubber filter gasket from the old filter.....
Wouldn't that be really cool if Garrett would develop one of those electric aftermarket turbos for our 4.2L?
Dean
Would hate to have that mechanic work on something complicated.
No, I'm not generalizing - just a comment
I always type up a description of the problem, the symptoms, and the conditions under which it occurs, and provide it to the service advisor. Some staple it to the job order for the mechanic. Some don't and rewrite my words on the ticket. Others try to short-hand the description on the ticket. The latter generally provide an unsatisfactory outcome for our visit and I seek other service centers for my next service.
In addition, the dealership technicians are primarily parts changers. Yeah, they are well trained and highly skilled at replacing those parts. But, for the most part, they don't have highly developed troubleshooting skills. Probably because the service routine is oriented toward picking the most likely suspect and replacing it, hoping the problem will go away. They get better at picking the right suspect when the factory engineers send them a TSB with the correct answer or my problem and symptoms description is accurate enough to point them to the offending part.
Our older vehicles get serviced in independent shops that we identify through recommendations and by trial and error. Besides the lower cost, these shops generally have personnel with more experience and well developed troubleshooting skills. Thus the problem gets fixed the first time at a more reasonable cost. Frankly, I don't care if the mechanic had a DUI. As Lincoln said about U. S. Grant, "find out what he's drinking and give a case to rest of my generals".
As to the Goodyears, Firestones, and Midases (the only franchise shops I've used over the past 40 years), I wouldn't trust most of them to do anything more than an oil change. The quality of personnel is uneven and some push the envelope on outright fraud.
My 2 cents.
License plate seal on rear compartment replaced and the bulbs in the tail lights replaced along with the lamp exterior replaced
the 3rd high brake light was replaced due to discoloring . they did not do anything about the long scratches on my windows but it was put in the file so there would be no charge upon return.
my last problem was really just a question for them and the weather stripping around the windows they say it is normal to leave it alone .all in all a better experience where the dealership actually sounded like they cared about you as a customer and i was treated much better sometimes that is all it takes . i must say even if the thing is still broken i would recommend this dealership just on that fact.
Then again, there's the problem of getting car symptoms from a customer with absolutely no mechanical training (complaints like "it goes chug, chug, chug when I do 'this', is that the air conditioning?"). While this description gives a basic place to start (hopefully), it's far from "proper direction".
Many consumers automatically feel that because they own a car and skimmed through the owner's manual, they are now some sort of mechanic. I can't count the number of times a customer has already had a problem "diagnosed" because either he, or the old dude next door, already figured it out.
Problem is, neither the customer nor the old dude next door have ever worked on a fuel injected car or know what OBD-II is.
The DUI issue has nothing to do with the competence of a mechanic, except for a passion for drinking, but it bears strongly on the dealership's ability to insure them while working. If they can't road test your car to diagnose your problem, they can't do a very good job for you or the dealer.
"K" turn?? Maybe that's where you don't quite have enough room for a traditional "U" turn, have to head in to the curb, stop, back up, and then go forward, to complete the about-face?? (Couldn't resist! )
Ask me how I know....(1967, Jim was in grandpa's 1966 Ford Galaxy, playing road racer, pulled down on the gearshift and rolled into the street and into the Baptist Church parking lot. My cool aunt grabbed grandpa's keys and moved the car back into the driveway before anyone found out - still owe her for that one!)
zueslewis: I'm not sure you're quite up to speed on the Tranny Override Issue. The day that my four-year-old figures out that while playing Road Racer, he can just squeeze the clips that hold the fake leather boot in place around the gear shift selector to remove the boot, then press and hold the tranny override lever with one hand while engaging the gear shift selector with the other hand, I believe is the day I give him the keys and let him drive.
That shift boot is pretty well secured though. I thought I might break something before it finally pulled up when I checked it out. It would take a pretty clever kid to figure out without any knowledge that there was anything under there in the first place. But yes I can relate.. I remember when I shifted my Dad's '55 Cadillac out of Park while he and Mom were unloading grocerys. That panicked look as he chased it and me down the driveway.. was too easy. Of course in those days with metal dashboards and no seat belts, I used to ride in his lap as we drove. And I am still alive today.
Seems like all they would have to to to make it comply as-is would be to add a trim piece around the base of the boot held in place with one small screw.
As an automotive engineer, a court-appointed automotive expert, an ASE certified mechanic, and car biz finance and sales manager and a hard-core car enthusiast since age 4, I can assure you I'm "up on" the issue.
The purpose of the recall is to address a perceived "Theft Protection" issue. Apparently the NHTSA's expert opinion is somewhat different than yours.
There's a flip side to this. They automatically assume you don't know anything about cars. It may be a small percentage, but there are those of us who know what we're talking about.
Case in point, I told them the cooling fan of my Trailblazer would come on during the highway at times. True, I was going through the mountains but I further explained that the temp gauge showed the normal 210 and that it was 40 degrees outside. I received a dismissive answer about how it was designed to come on. I was pretty clear about this. I wasn't complaining about something like a mysterious noise or vibration.
It was realling buring me up, because it wasn't like I could take one of them up into the mountains to experience just how annoying it was.
Luckily, the next time it happened, the service engine light came on. I took it in, they replaced the fan clutch, and it hasn't happened since. Seems they can't argue with that service engine light.
No need for the sarcasm, either, since I responded to your accusatory tone implying that I didn't know what I was talking about.
I'll say that I respect whatever it is you do for a living, and surely don't know as much about your job as you do - when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument.
First off: I was not implying that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was suggesting that maybe you've joined the discussion a bit late and hadn't gotten "up to speed" on this particular recall and, more specifically, why we, the owners of these vehicles, are bothered by it.
No sarcasm intended. Perhaps you read a bit too much into my statement or perhaps I could've worded it differently?
".....when you want to start splitting hairs on automotive knowledge, however, like some schoolyard agrument over who's Dad could whip the other's, I can say I'll probably win that argument. "
Secondly: Huh? "Schoolyard argument"? You got that from my pointing out the specifics on the NHTSA recall?
Enough of this. Can we talk about the Triplets now?
I have to prove myself every time I go into court, just to be allowed to testify - forgive that fact that I'm a little sensitive, especially in a public forum that our opponent attorneys read (my posts and topics) when I feel someone indicates I don't know what I'm doing.
With me, unlike yourself or others, that type of statement/implication can substantially harm my career.
Triplets? One of my other investigators has a new Envoy - loves it, but it's had the engine replaced.
PS. Thank you to nuyorkah for TSB#03-08-52-002.
P.S. I am enjoying having zueslewis doing all this posting. Its amazing how much more posting activity there is since he has been here. Welcome, and if you ask me, I think you are on topic!
One more point, GMAC has pulled out of New York with Ford credit right behind as far as leasing goes. The bank gets sued along with the lessee with every accident even though the bank has nothing to do with it. Until they fix the law written for horse drawn cabs in 1920, no more leases here. I will have to change my name to 2yearcarbuyonly if we dont get action soon.
And by the way, even with as much as I like the GM triplets, considering the number of lemon law cases involving them that I've seen, it definitely IS on topic.
BTW I have been offering harmonic resonance as a possible cause of the vibration for some time now. glad to have you aboard on that one.
Frank
My '03 Envoy has an intermittent, annoying "stutter" at idle (in drive). Feels like an engine miss - but the RPMS don't fluctuate at all. Happens when stopped for a long red light; seems to take over 30 seconds to happen. Intermittent - haven't been able to find any pattern to the behavior.
It's been in the shop 6 times for this problem. This time my husband was able to talk to the mechanic (who was knowledgeable, friendly, and helpful) and the mechanic admitted that they are currently working on 5-6 Envoys with this same issue. The mechanic hoped the spark plug replacement done 2 days ago (per GM's TAC) would resolve the issue, but it didn't.
And the best part: they gave us a brand new '03 Envoy as a loaner for the day. And it had the SAME STUTTER PROBLEM!!
The Service Advisor left it at "you'll have to wait until it gets worse". But we'll be calling the GMC Consumer Relations people tomorrow to log the issue. Hopefully they've had enough reports of this problem that they have someone working on a fix.
I hope the information is helpful to someone. This forum is usually a good exchange of information amongst Triplet owners.
Zueslewis: My posting regarding Service Department procedures was based on MY experiences and was my way to vent my frustrations. I don't care how much experience you have, that doesn't mean my observations are invalid.
Let's just all get along.
"My TB only vibrates over 295 MPH, but I think that's mostly from wind drag. Maybe removing my luggage crossbars would help"
295 mph? I am still trying to figure out how to get a triplet to go that fast. With my 3.42 gears at 6000 rpm the top speed would be only about 220.
"...oversized state of Texas..." : bigger is better! Lower cost of living and NO state income tax. Pretty nice if you ask me. Homeowner's insurance (at least in north TX) will beat you to death though. I have tried and tried to get my fellow native Texans to secede from the union and run everybody off that's moved here since 1980. but nobody will listen.
Now that things have been spring-like, the vehicle starts right up. I'll check it though and keep you posted.
It's gotta last 12 more months...as that's when my lease ends.
MSN Money
Sounds like a lot of clean-up is going to be needed at the factory and production may be down for a while.
Steve, Host
Well I got news of the Tornado, it ripped the paint dept. off the map at OK, the place that assembles Some of the TB's, The plant was changing over to assemble new ISUZU ASENDER, And the the SUX Envoy due out.
I also got a close up look at the new I-5 GM is putting in the Chevy Colorado, and GMC, and small SUV. I have got to say, the facility they built along with the engine are highly impressive!!!!!!!, 215 hp out of a I5! WOW! The new Colorado, gmc, is simply awesome looking!!!
Basically, the I5 is a sawed version of the I6 we all have, let me say beefy, awesome technolgy, smooth, yet a simple design! Aluminum block with cast iron sleeves!
I remember a post a while back where someone said the sleeves on the cylinder walls were thin? NO WAY JOSE! I had the chance to see the new assemby plant, simply put, GM is getting their crap together!!!!