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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • Sounds like the old binding issue. Here's the TSB on it.
    02-04-21-008 Shudder, Rocking Motion, Binding, Feels Like Vehicle is Stuck in 4WD (Crow Hop) When Turning at Low Speeds.

    I had the TSB above applied to my '02 Bravada last Feb. and I haven't had the binding since.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    Host, you got the wrong impression of P O S. The 2001 TB had Positively Ordinary Styling.
     Besides, who could ever be offended by something they saw or read on the internet of all places? If I had young kids, I would certainly let them read or see anything they wanted on the web. It's a safe place isn't it?

  • pauleulpauleul Posts: 116
    I think you have a problem with

    hondafreak (POSts 10914 and 10915)and elswhere.

    Might want to check in to it and enforce membership rules and whatever else he is violating.
  • macman246macman246 Posts: 118
    I turned in my '02 Envoy with the random stalling problem today. GM bought it back minus a mileage allowance. They're paying off my loan, refunding my GM Card rebate points, and gave me a nice big check to deposit today for my remaining "equity". The whole process was painless and took 30 minutes with the inspection. The business manager at the dealership was polite and professional.

    For those of you who haven't had any problems with your triplet, good luck. The triplets are smooth and powerful. Mine was problem-free for the first year. Hopefully subsequent years' models are improved enough to provide you many years of reliable transportation.

    For those of you who aren't so lucky, here is some advice:
    1. Make sure your problem is spelled out precisely in the repair order, each and every time.
    2. If they can't fix it/can't reproduce it, keep taking it back. Especially if you think it's a safety-related problem. Again, follow #1 above and spell the problem out the same way, over and over again.
    3. Have your service advisor get the shop foreman involved if this is your 2nd or 3rd attempt.
    4. Have the shop foreman get GM Technical Assistance Center involved. The men and women who built these trucks in Detroit might have a better clue, or at least seen more unsolvable cases like yours nationally than your local shop has.
    5. By your 3rd attempt, your service advisor should be upgrading your free rental car, courtesy of the dealership. Ask for the Caddy DeVille.
    6. Keep all your paperwork in one spot. Never throw any of the repair orders away.
    7. Borrow a camcorder to video your problem, if it's something visible. But don't try to videotape and drive at the same time. It's difficult to do and dangerous unless you have a helper.
    8. Don't bother with the GM Customer Assistance Center or BBB arbitration. That will only slow you down, it won't fix your problem, and you won't be satisfied. Hire a good lemon law attorney who gets paid by the manufacturer only if you win. Your attorney will decide if you have a solid, winnable case.
    9. Be polite and professional through the whole ordeal. It's easy to lose it with the service advisor and shop foreman, but you want them to work WITH you instead of AGAINST you.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    I had some cable access problems and couldn't get online earlier to delete the spam posts. Apologies.

    Steve, Host
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    ... and I was AFK for a while ... thanks to all for your patience!

    tidester, host
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    I'm certainly glad we got THAT straight - thanks!

    tidester, host
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    "Was reading the 4-03 Techlink Newsletter and noticed a revision about using silicone on the weatherstrips. Having tried one of the GM recommended products "SuperLube with Teflon®" on the door seals and finding it actually causes the body seals to STICK to the doors after it sets for about an hour, maybe they came to the same conclusion. Can someone provide the details of the "replacement" bulletin below?
     99-08-64-016A; replaces 99-08-64-016; Use of Silicone for Weatherstrip Maintenance; 2003 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks "

    Info - Use of SIlicone for Weatherstrip Maintenance #99-08-64-016A - (01/21/2003)

    2003 and Prior Passenger Cars and Trucks

    2003 HUMMER H2

    This bulletin is being revised to add model years and update the Parts Information for Canada. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 99-08-64-016 (Section 08 - Body and Accessories).

    In the past, questions have been raised regarding the proper care and maintenance of weatherstrips. The purpose of this bulletin is to clarify which materials are recommended for use when required.

    Periodically, a thin coating of silicone grease can prolong the life of the weatherstrip. The silicone will reduce wear in the contact areas as well as reduce squeaking and sticking conditions. During very cold or damp weather, more frequent applications may be necessary.

    PN# U.S.12345579 Goodwrench Dielectric Silicone Grease (or the equivalent)

    PN# Canadian 00992887 Goodwrench Dielectric Silicone Grease (or the equivalent)
    PN# U.S.3634770 Goodwrench Weatherstrip Lubricant (Krytox) (or the equivalent)

    PN# Canadian 10953518 Goodwrench Weatherstrip Lubricant (Krytox) (or the equivalent)

    The use of KRYTOX for coating weatherstrips is allowed, but not required.
  • jr45jr45 Posts: 45
    giddens_john - Thanks for the heads up on the TSB for the binding issue. It's going in the shop Monday morning for what I hope is a quick fix.
  • twinrottstwinrotts Posts: 161
    I have been in the habit of using either Armour All or Meguires rubber/vinyl treatment products to both clean and preserve the door seals.
    They seem to restore a rich color to them and do not cause any sticking problems.
    The thought of a grease product in an area where a person might inadvertantly touch does not seem like a good idea.
    Any reason why my strategy is not sound??
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    JR45: Hopefully they have parts for this by now. My Bravada was in the shop 20 days waiting for parts. The dealer did not want me driving it as it could really tear up the drivetrain.

  • pauleulpauleul Posts: 116
    Darn, that must have meant we could have used all kinds of bad words and gotten way off topic without any threats!

    I think a good many people learned the true meaning of P.O.S. from hondafreak today. He was all over the place with his spam posts.


    There is a product called SIL-GLYDE. It is MFG by AGS Co. in Muskegon, MI. I purchased it at a store called BiMart in Oregon.

    I've been using it on my '01 Acura TL. It's amazing how well it works at getting rid of squeaks and rattles. It is clear and doesn't make a mess even if you brush up against it after applying. In the summer, an application lasts 2-3 months. In the winter, an application lasts the entire winter. Works great on the moon roof problems also. Makes the car as quiet as it was the day I bought it. There is a slight feel of sticking on the doors that aren't opened for a few days, but not bad at all. Silicone spray and Armour All products work too but never last more than a week. This isn't for the outside if your just looking at cleaning up the appearance of the black rubber.
    Haven't needed to use it yet on my '02 Envoy (13,000 miles) and still going strong with only two minor problems. The gasket on the license plate pocket and the wild mirrors which were fixed with the re-programming solution.
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    The matter has been resolved. :-)

    tidester, host
  • cwhawkcwhawk Posts: 38
    Can anyone describe the correct position for the cross bars on the roof rack? Mine does not have arrows and I have seen TBs with them facing each direction. Should the highest side be towards the front or rear of the vehicle?
  • 2002slt2002slt Posts: 228
    Highest side towards the rear.
  • If you look underneath the locking part of the crossbar, it says L or R. I took mine off for the winter and just put them back on.
  • seandmseandm Posts: 4
    just wondering if anyone has heard of a problem where the airbags in the chevy tb 2002 do not deploy? i just totaled mine today in an accident and my chevy did not deploy its airbags???!?!?!#? the car i hit deployed all of its airbags and it was a hunk of junk (and totaled as well). Here i have a 30k car that i paid mucho money for the safety features and it appears non-existent? is there anything i can do?
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    please post some pictures so we can tell if the airbags should have deployed in the first place. If they should have and didn't, call the NTSB ASAP and show them pics, then call a good lawyer. I believe the TB has the so called second generation bags. They deploy with less force and are supposed to cause less injury to the occupants. It sounds like your's were really gentle. Were your injuries worse as a result of the bags not working? Make sure you keep control of the cars black box. It will show your forward speed and other factors needed to determine if the bags should have deployed.

  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    for posting that bulletin!
  • ltz2003ltz2003 Posts: 24
    I own a body shop and a lot goes into air bag deployment, You cant tell by pictures. It all depends on where it gets hit, how it gets hits, the force it gets hit. Im not saying there isnt a problem but dont jump the gun and get a lawyer. If you have a shop you can trust get it checked out first. There is way more goes into air bag deployment than people think. You can take my advice or not but i fixed a lot of cars that you would think the bags should deploy and dont and there is nothing wrong. Some also get sent to the junkyard they dont go off sometimes not always a problem. Good luck
  • seandmseandm Posts: 4
    how does one post pics? i have about 40 of them. I was going about 35-40mph, and i t-boned their car head on.

    Who knows about the injuries, i'm a little stiff, but i was so worried about the people in the other car that i told the medics to take care of them and to not worry about me.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Instructions are in Town Hall Help, linked on the left. You need a place to "host" the pics, like a homepage, since Edmunds doesn't have room for you to just upload them here.

    I suspect you'll be stiff and sore for days - a checkup wouldn't hurt.

    Steve, Host
  • seandmseandm Posts: 4
    very stiff indeed. interesting is that the front driver side of the car was pushed into the engine area, but the inside remained intact. i was knocked about and spun around and didn't seem to suffer very severe injuries, the seatbelts are definitely rigid.
  • Has anyone experienced a water leak into the cabin, on the floor of the front passenger seat? I took my winter style "bucket" mats out this past weekend, and I felt water on the floor. I took some trim pieces off around the door opening, to get under the carpet. The padding and the bottom of the carpet were both completely soaked, and starting to mildew. Looks like it has been wet for a while, as I sucked a gallon of water out of the padding with a Shop Vac, and it was still soaked. Took it to the dealer this morning, and will post an update when I find out the results, but I was just wondering if anyone else experienced this yet? Probably leaking through the fire wall somewhere, or at the base of the windshield? Fortunately, since the carpet is actually wet and mildewed underneath, it is going to be hard for them to give me the "we can't find a problem" line. Best part is the dealer loaner car is a Corolla. Go Figure.

    Been problem free for a while, so maybe its just my turn - '02 Envoy XL SLT 02/02 build date.
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    Here's the TSB for the Cross Rails (Crossbars)

    - Proper Position and Installation of Roof Rack Cross Rails to Reduce Wind Noise.
    #02-08-67-005 - (05/23/2002)
    2002 Chevrolet and GMC S/T Utility Models (Trailblazer, Trailblazer EXT, Envoy, Envoy XL)
    2002 Oldsmobile Bravada

    Some of the above vehicles may exhibit wind noise related to the roof rack.In an effort to reduce wind noise, Engineering has identified a specific position and installation for the roof rack cross rails.

    Beginning on September 6, 2001 the Trailblazer, Envoy, and Bravada were built with the roof rack cross rails installed in the reverse direction (arrows towards rear of vehicle).

    Early calendar year 2002 the Trailblazer EXT and Envoy XL were built with the roof rack cross rails installed in the reverse direction (arrows towards rear of vehicle).

    Early calendar year 2002 the directional arrows were removed from the cross rails on all models to eliminate any confusion as to which direction is correct.It has been found that some dealers are changing the direction of the cross rails thinking they were installed incorrectly.

    To obtain the optimum position and installation of the roof rack cross rails that produce the least wind noise, use the following procedure:

    If the cross rails have directional arrows, they should be installed in the reverse direction (arrows toward rear of vehicle). Remove the cross rails and rotate as necessary.

    If the directional arrows are not present, installation can be verified by checking the location of the cross rail eyelets. When installed in the reverse direction, the cross rail eyelets will face the rear of the vehicle.Remove the cross rails and rotate as necessary.

    Once the specified direction has been established, adjust the position of the cross rails, so that one cross rail is positioned at the rear most end of the vehicle. The other cross rail should then be positioned at approximately midpoint of the rear door glass.
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    I too had a leak in my 02 Envoy. Mine was on the drivers side.
    I also noticed a wet carpet but didn't think much of it. It had been raining for a few days before hand. I accidently stumbled across the leak when I was running a power wire for my radar detector. I pulled off the trim on the left side "A" pillar(between drivers door and windshield inside of the truck)and got wet. The water was coming in from the top left hand corner of the windshield. My Dealership had a local glass guy come in and reseal that corner, it hasn't leaked since.
  • jr45jr45 Posts: 45
    My 03 Bravada stayed in the shop for one day to fix the "crowhop" problem. The service ticket says "Replace encoder motor per Bulletin 02-04-21-008A." Seems fixed. Hope it stays fixed.
  • dlaredlare Posts: 43
    Hey sportbikenut,

    Last month, you listed your updates as:

    "My TB was just updated with #12583548, #12583714, and #12583719."

    Could you please post the descriptions of these? I have the hesitation problems like you did, but when I check on my VIN, I get a different set of available updates for mine. Or is the info that the website returns my current cal? Mine is a 2002 model, but none of your numbers are in my list.

    Mine shows:

    12579238 for new operating software
    12583556 cal to correct cold idle fluctuation and warm hesitation
    12583717 cal to correct cold start/shift problems


  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Something I noticed 1st time I ran my VIN and a friends VIN who owns an otherwise identical TB except his has 3.73 gears, mine has 3.42, both are 2WD LS models with the same 1SC option package built within a couple of months of each other. Comparing the listed part numbers, his Operating System software that runs all the body control functions is identical to mine, but all the Engine Calibrations, Trans Cal's and Speedo Cal listed were slightly different but within 2 or 3 in the part number sequence. Apparently some different engine and trans power control calibrations (and the body control module OS) apply depending on what gear ratio you have, and other options and features that are on a particular vehicle. This could explain the variances you see when you are comparing two different vehicles.
  • twinrottstwinrotts Posts: 161
    My TB is a 2002 LT with 3.42 and leather plus and you name it I got it.
    My VIN shows the
    12579238 for new operating software
    12583556 cal to correct cold idle fluctuation and warm hesitation
    12583717 cal to correct cold start/shift problems
    as described by DLARE
    Those numbers however are the last entry made for each of the subsystems.
    The OS system has only 238 upgrade.
    The Engine calibration also lists a
    12576999: engine calibration and
    12579249: calibration to correct cold start idle surge and hesitation
    Transmission has:
    12573458: transmission and
    12579259: new calibration to improve feel of 1-2 upshift
    I also show under Speedometer calibration
    09351579: speedometer calibration
    Why do I show so many under a single subsystem??
    Do I need to have them all done or only the latest under each cat?
    Anyone know what the Speedometer calibration is about???
    Would really appreciate someone explaining how this system is supposed to work
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