Subaru Impreza WRX

ateixeira

The Tib fan can wait for the next Tiburon, which is supposed to get a 181hp V6. By all means, go line up for one. I'm sure you won't have to wait in line very long. ;-)

We did the BMW Ultimate Driving Experience yesterday, and at the end of the event we did timed runs in a 330xi. Just to get an idea, times varied from 1:29 (instructors) to 1:39. That's a huge 10 seconds spread! I pulled in a 1:31, so I was pretty proud of myself, but that still means I have 2 seconds to shave off my time with the same exact car the pros were using.

Conclusion: it's the driver. I'm sure the instructors could have matched my time with a 325xi and 41 fewer horsepower. They could probably have walked the course faster than the slowest driver.

I drove a WRX, finally. Hutch and I swapped cars for a short jaunt. I'd conclude that it has a split personality.

Below 3000rpm, it's a refined, quiet small sedan. You could take your mother-in-law to church and get 25mpg in your commute. This could be seen as a good thing (I see it that way).

Above 3000rpm, it comes alive. Power doesn't come with a bang, instead it seems to build linearly, non-stop, the more revs the better. The thing just goes zzzzzZZZZZZING all the way to redline, pushing you back into your seat in 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd gear, still pulling strong. Sweetness. I want one.

OTOH, if you like to mope around at near idle in traffic, and expect immediate reponse at launch, it's just not for you. That's cool, different strokes.

I don't think the same engine would be as appealing in the Forester, since it weighs more. Unless there is a smaller turbo, or twins. I'd prefer to see a 2.5l light pressure turbo in something that may tow on occasion.

-juice

jim2741

Once again I was at the dealership this morning for regular service and while I was waiting for my car (2000 2.5RS 5sp) I was once again amazed by how many WRX's they had just sitting. Seems to me that these cars just aren't selling. They had every variation to choose from, sedan, wagon, all colors and plenty of 5sp. They also have them now with a pretty cool colored leather interior. Of course that brings the car up to around 27K - yikes! They also had a couple with the sunroof. From what I've read here, I'd definitely stay away from a WRX with a sunroof.

Just one final thing before I go, do you work Juice?

Jim

ateixeira

As little as possible. ;-)

Sales are strong, it's just supply finally caught up. September was a dismal month but Subaru managed a 2% increase. Impreza sales were more than double what they were last September.

-juice

bluesubie

I saw 3 here in NJ during a recent service. No wagons though. A salesguy told me that the demand for wagon was exceeding SoA's expectations. I took a test drive as well. Exactly as juice described.

Dennis

cupholder1

One dealer in Los Angeles has been advertising that they have over 40 WRXes on the lot - this same advertisement offered $1100 off MSRP... this wasn't a "one at this price" teaser... It was $1100 off on all 40 units on the lot...

ateixeira

There is a $2000 difference or so from invoice to MSRP, so they're still asking for a fairly hefty profit margin (about $900 over invoice).

-juice

jim2741

Do you even need AWD in LA?

I love my 2.5RS, but if I lived somewhere that didn't have snow, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be driving a Subaru.

I kind of like the VR6 Jetta.

I'm doing it again - ya just kind of get sucked in.

Jim

barresa62

If I said it once, I've said a 1000 times...AWD is not just for inclement weather! There, I feel better (1001 times, now) :-)

Stephen

ateixeira

Well, C&D just tested the 1.8T Jetta vs. the new RS and preferred the RS. In a test on dry pavement, too.

Also, they mentioned the VR6 was actually half a second slower than the 1.8T in their testing. At least with the new 180hp 1.8T, and until they VR6 gets another pair of valves and 201hp.

-juice

wannawrx

i would rather drive an awd car in LA than drive an 4WD explorer or other gas guzzling SUV. Bad weather in sunny CA is the first rain on the oil coated roads. After that it no problem.

jim2741

Huh?

mmcbride1

They preferred the RS for spirited driving. For cruising around town, the Jetta was the #1 pick. And if you look at the final points, it all could have gone to any of the top 4 (the Neon appeared to be hopelessly outclassed).

The Jetta, RS, MP3 and SE-R Spec V are all very closely matched, they just cater to a slightly different audience.

cupholder1

Sure, $900 over invoice is a good profit margin. But rarely is such a good deal advertised on 40 different units. If they're going to ADVERTISE $900 over invoice without any haggling, they are surely willing to sell it for much less than that.

cupholder1

You don't "need" AWD is Los Angeles, but it sure is nice. The biggest plus is that it basically eliminates torque steer, and you can jump off the line from a dead start without burning rubber.

wrxdude

The WRX's AWD almost drives as if there was a vacuum or magnet holding it to the road. So the handling compared to a typical FWD on dry pavement is substantial. My 76 year old father had a Subaru salesman give him the ole "YOU NEED AWD" and he got grumbly and never considered the Subaru. I look forwards to letting him drive the WRX and letting him feel the difference. I would put it this way .........do you want premium handling car? if yes then you need AWD in LA or the north pole!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

chem123

While I certainly don't put that much trust in magazine tests, the RS's slow "track time" intrigues me. The testers also said it understeered quite a bit. Can this all be attributed to the tires or is it something else?

kostamojen2

chem123: Tires and dinky rear swaybar. Stick a WRX 20mm stock swaybar on there instead of the 13mm RS one and its improved alot. Tires are amazing in what they do for the car though!

Car Sales: Are down ACROSS THE BOARD! You can get any car right now minus a ferrari or other rare exotic car with a 1000 person waiting list :P
So if you see WRX's on the lot, RS's on the lot, New Altimas on the lot, New Camrys on the lot, etc., etc., etc. Blame bin ladin...

AWD in LA: Yes you need AWD in LA, San fransisco, anywhere really, instead of FWD (No Torque steer!!!)... RWD would be fine though, until it rains and all that oil starts seeping up from the concrete.
Heck, I have fun with AWD every day, accelerating in corners just to feel the whole car "grab" and go

abawrx

I traded my 1999 Mustang GT in for a new WRX. I'm not looking back. It's personal taste, but the WRX is just more fun to drive. It's 'zippier.' I love it. I miss the attention my Mustang got, however. No one looks twice at my WRX. I suppose that can be a good thing.

I have 770 miles on the WRX. I have dutifully obeyed the owners manual be keeping the car below 4000 rpm and keeping my starts and stops slow enough to annoy others in traffic. My question is about running the car at the same speed. How long is a 'long time?' Is it 15 minutes, an hour, five hours? I ask because I do quite a bit of highway driving. I have been taking longer backroad routes and annoying traffic by speeding up and slowing down when on the highway.

Also, what about speed? I've kept the car at 60 mph and below. Is this necessary?

wrxdude

My 540 miled WRX has not been over 4,000 rpms but for a quick few moments of time. I have not even considered the idea of too much time at the same speed. I will read my manual further I guess. Your post helped to wake me up. I shall be waitin with you should someone with more insight to this break in stuff. i do quite a bit of freeway driving my self
Gave up a mustang? thats quite a statement for the fans and admirers of the WRX!!!!!!!!

pfiffer

The only thing the WRX manual says about break-in is not to take the car above 4000 rpm for the first 1,000 miles. Usually, manufacturers of high-performance engines recommend that you (a) not cruise with the engine at the same rpm for extended periods of time (and no cruise control), (b) avoid full throttle starts and (c) keep the engine rpm well below redline. The break-in period for motorcyles is similar although graduated, allowing for higher engine rpm in the last 500 miles of breakin. Driving this way during the first 1,000 miles allows the valves to seat themselves and all other engine parts to "wear-in" a bit before put under the higher stress and temperatures of full throttle, high rpm starts.

What does all this translate to for a WRX break-in? For my first 500 miles I kept it under 4,000 rpm (but went well over 60 mph in 5th), avoided full throttle starts altered my cruising highway speed every 5 minutes or so by 5-10 mph. I did the same for the last 500 miles but allowed for brief, semi-throttle sprints to 5,000 rpm.

P.S. I cheated once at the 870 mile mark after being challenged by a car that REX just had to take on!! Fortunately, the battle was over by the end of second gear!!

abawrx

Thanks wrxdude and pfiffer for the break in insight. I passed the 860 mile mark this evening. I'm still treating my new baby gently. It was very difficult to let the driver of an Integra give me the eye, rev his engine and take off without any response from my part. Had I been in my old 'stang, he'd of been toast.

I intend to change the oil at the 1000 mile mark. Any advice regarding synthetic oils or should I just stick with the stock specs?

As for trading a Mustang GT, it was difficult. I felt like a bit of a traitor. I have owned three Mustangs (79, 85, 99). The last was a fully loaded 35th Anniv edition GT. A sweet car really. I had no intentions of parting with it until by chance I saw three WRXs sitting at a Subaru dealership and, curious, stopped for a test drive. I test drove one, talked about the tech stuff, and traded the Mustang on the spot.

My friends and family were shocked. The GT only had 42k miles on it. Fortunately, the trade-in and a check paid for the WRX. No payments.

I can attest first hand that on anything short of perfect pavement, a WRX will eat a Mustang GT alive. And let's face it, the pavement is usually less than perfect.

My silver WRX has the spoiler, carbon fiber trim, short throw shift, performance guage pkg, side ground effects thingies, enhanced stereo with subwoofer, and auto dim mirror. I love that mirror, could do without the spoiler, and miss having a clock. The stereo sounded slightly better in the Mustang, but my son (4.5 yr old) who sits in the back seat likes the speakers in the door better than behind his head. He also likes his own window and door (child locked, of course).

ateixeira

I looked again, and found it interesting that C&D gave the Impreza RS a 9 for styling, tied for the best score.

The RS and only one other car had 16" rims, too. The cars with 17" were generally better handlers.

The new Altima is a perfect example of torque steer nearly spoiling an otherwise excellent car. Go drive one, and you will wish for AWD, especially with that kind of power.

Hmm, paid off WRX? So the funds can go to a set of rims and tires, then a few mods. You're in good shape.

-juice

rsholland

while your memory of the Altima is still fresh, you may want to try out a new Maxima. My sense is that it is the more "sporting" of the two, and perhaps(?) they've tamed the torque steer for that model. I believe it now comes with a 6-speed.

Remember, the Altima is marketed as a "family" sedan, where the typical customer wouldn't be as demanding as you or I. I would check out the Maxima. My sense is that it will be more of a "driver's" car.

Bob

paisan

Is not an option IMHO, cause it has a solid rear axle, not Indy. It will feel more like a caddy than a subaru. The last good maxi was in '92 or '93 when is still donned the "4DSC" logo.

-mike

ateixeira

Well, I had tried a 222hp auto version at Edmunds Live with Hutch. I liked the interior, but not the way it handled. We both preferred the Camry, ironically.

More power isn't the solution, even though a 6 speed with that much power sounds nice (more torque steer, though?). They need to re-sort that rear suspension. I heard they will use the Altima's platform for the next one.

Also, I detest the rear styling. It's droopy, goofy and Neon-like, to my eyes. Meanwhile the Altima is a supermodel, just gorgeous in comparison.

We drove by a Nissan dealer, by chance, and the wife got a peek at the new Altima and loved the styling. So among FWD alternatives, the Altima would be my pick.

The wife's 626 is running well, and the warning light has gone off. So I hope it lasts until a Blitzen arrives, and she'll have more options.

-juice

rsholland

Mike, Subies don't have a solid rear axle. You know that.

I agree, I wish the Maxima had an IRS. I'm just saying that the suspension may be "tuned more for a sporting ride, and they they may have tamed the torque steer somewhat in the process.

Bob

ateixeira

Neither the Maxima nor the Altima feel anything like a Subaru, IMO. Both feel nose heavy and have front wheel drive with some torque steer. Also, the boxer engine is a dead giveaway that you're driving a Soob.

-juice

paisan

dkneedsnwcr

Hi everyone,

Everyone here appears to be a Suburu enthusiast, so, what better place to ask right?

I'm looking at getting a new car (currently an '88 Honda Accord with 290 KM/ 180 M). The cars that I'm looking at are (it's very broad, just something within a certain price range):
Suburu Impreza WRX
Nissan Altima
VW Jetta/ GTI
Acura RSX

That's all that comes to mind at the moment. But the question I have in relation to the Suburu is with respect to maintenance and reliability. Some folks have said the cost is high, others not so, just wondering what you folks have to say. Also, I read a post mentioning something about their sunroof's (sp?).

Any answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Derek

rex_ruthor

We just finished putting all the worms back in the can!

seriously though..Id say you have some reading to do...we have ferociously covered the maintenance and reliability in this topic already, mostly instigated by mischievous Audi forum members. As far as the WRX sold here is concerned, its probably too early to tell, although if it has the same or better build quality as the prior impreza and ones sold overseas, then it should be a fairly decent car.

That being said, I will bow out with the disclaimer that I dont have enough miles (3500 only) on my own WRX to talk about maintenance or reliability (Except to say it hasnt broken yet, which is no big claim to fame)

PS. Subaru didnt offer the sunroof on the new impreza because there are supporting beams in the roof panel...you could theoretically work between them (and wind up with a tiny pointless roof), or cut out the beam (stupid to sacrifice what Subaru put in the car for your protection just to have a skylight, if you ask me)

wrxdude

I too considered many of the same vehicles that you mentioned and price range was about the same as yours too. I don't have the specifics on how much will be spent in the next year or two on the WRX. The other cars are nice cars! Some of them fast cars! Some may get more Miles before having to take some time and spending a few dollars! ...........The WRX will need a bit of adjusting here and there,,,,,the salesman outlined the general idea. But my tastes were discovered as I DROVE the WRX!!!!!!!!!! as the pop song used to go "cant touch this" The WRX has AWD has a better more race like rigid chassis, handles better! So after weighing that I might end up spending a hundred or two more in the next year on maintaince ? Not even a consideration as I cannot measure the amount of joy that I get driving this car,,,,,, in a dollar amount!. I don't have the specifics for you in maintaince schedules sorry or the exact dollar amounts. If I were yer close buddy ID look at do you have the need for a family car? are you looking for a going to point A to B? in semi comfort? lots of variables to consider
but the details of those questions for me dissapeard the more I looked into the WRX . My sister thought Id get a Camry. My friends wanted the MAX ,,,,,for more leg room fer them when we went somewhere. I wanted something that had a dose of fun to it ........... The RSX is fun! but only two doors ,,,,,,,,,it came down to the two ,,,,,,,RSX or WRX...... then I test drove the WRX again and read more about the virtues of AWD and 227 turbo vs 200 hps I have a four door that is in a class by itself .......

mjvchicago

Well, I recently expereinced a calling from the dark side... all the recent hype about the 2002 Altima made me add it to my list of cars to eval and compare to the WRX. The WRX is the incumbent for my next new car, and being 90% sure I wanted a WRX, I momentarily thought about not wasting my time with another competitor test drive. Boy was I glad I did.

I test drove a V6 Altima SE today and was thoroughly impressed by its acceleration, but as a complete package was greatly disappointed. I thought the Altima would be a worthy contender. After all, on paper the Altima is quite impressive, especially when compared to the WRX. I felt like I could justify another 3 or 4k for more horsepower, similar handling hardware, luxury amentities, more room, bigger trunk and a moonroof. However, on the road, the Altima was something else. Something just didn't feel right.

For one, the interior was a bit sterile and actually not very comfortable. Shifting is awkward with the armrest where it is, and I swear I felt the suspension buckling over bumps... not what I would expect from a brand new car. Plus the torque steer is so strong and the steering a touch too light that keeping the car in line was a chore. Even working the radio while shifting was inconvenient with the radio controls being just out of reach when my right hand was optimally positioned over the shifter. If I could describe the feeling I had when I was in the Altima in one word, I would say it was foreign. Not like from-another-country foreign, but more like un-natural foreign.

I won't bore you with all the details, but to reiterate, I was not impressed with the overall Altima package and I'm glad that I did drive it because it reinforced my love for the WRX. When I test drove the WRX, it was like an old friend had been returned to me. It was like the steering wheel, the seat, the shifter... it was all an extension of myself, not a separate piece of machinery. When I drove the WRX, there was the rare combination of the excitement of the new with the warmness that is just this side of comfort.

Sorry for waxing poetic, but that's what the WRX did to me, and what the Altima didn't.

beygo

I test drove the Jetta, and while it's a fun car, it just doesn't drive as well or as fast as the WRX. The Altima, because it's FWD and has all that power, also has wicked torque steer and poorer handling. Having owned an Integra before, I can guess that the RSX must be a lot of fun. However, it's really cramped inside and if this matters to you, then you wouldn't want this car. I found that the WRX offered the best mix of fun, speed, practicality (I bought the wagon) and value. There's nothing like going fast through the twisties with this car. Test drive it and you'll be hooked!

BG

kostamojen2

Nissan, Volkswagen, and Acura are probably among THE most expensive for parts. And Subaru has excellent long term reliabilty, possibly even better than honda.

Go do some test driving!!!

ateixeira

Lessee, haven't driven the VeeDub but the 1.8T is a nice engine in the Passat. Nice interior but a little pricey for what you get, and reliability ain't up to the standard set by the others you list.

Haven't driven the RSX but it looks like an overinflated CRX, and it's the least practical on your list. Pocket rockets are fun, but they shouldn't cost over $20k.

I drove the Altima and the WRX on the same day, last Thursday. It was quite fun.

The Altima is a great car. It's getting a lot of IMO unfair criticism in the Altima boards, but that may be because of people's expectations. It does have too-light steering, pretty bad torque steer, and the shifter felt a bit stiff and not so smooth to this Miata owner, but that's about it.

Styling is gorgeous. Space is excellent. Good visibility, handling, ride, flexible engine is smooth and quick. Packaging is smart - the moonroof and HIDs are stand-along options. Plus you get beautiful 17" wheels on the 3.5SE standard, along with solid feeling 4 wheel disc brakes.

It's about as good as FWD gets, IMO.

I drove a buddy's WRX for a quick jaunt, and it feels quite different, with different strengths. It loses ground in stlying, space, and braking, and low end grunt (below 3000rpm), but in return you get more neutral handling, no torque steer, AWD traction, and push-you-into-your-seat acceleration that the Nissan cannot match. It's just more fun, really, and the seats are much, much better. It's a lot sportier feeling, with a much better shifter and better steering feedback, too.

I'd say the Acura, Nissan, and Subie will all be reliable, not a significant difference between the three. In terms of price, the RSX-S costs about what a WRX costs, while an Altima costs a bit more ($25-29k or so).

I'd pick a WRX wagon for me, but honestly my wife would probably prefer the Altima because she doesn't drive aggressively and puts passenger room and styling as high priorities. I think both are good choices.

-juice

bluesubie

I believe that Subaru's being expensive to maintain must be one of the biggest urban legends out there. Maybe people assume the AWD is expensive??? Who knows.

Anyway, having two Subes with a combined ~113,000 miles that hasn't been the case at all. I made up my mind a few years ago that my next car will still be a Subaru.

Dennis

ateixeira

Actually, in my experience parts are about as cheap as they get. You can get oil filters for less than $5. I'm getting a rear bumper cover for $215, and an entire taillight assembly for $107 (I got hit, long story).

In contrast, I went to a Mazda dealer to get a new gas cap for my Miata, and they charged me a whopping $25! Ouch! The lady in front of me paid over $8 for an oil filter for her MPV.

Check your dealer for service costs, but the 30k and 60k services don't cost any more than they would for, say, a Dodge.

-juice

jk111

What are you looking for by the way? it is obvious that you want a car with plenty of power.
If you are looking for room, get an Altima.
If you want luxury, go with GTI / RSX-S
If you want a total package, get the WRX.

RSX-S and GTI are smaller, Altima is big, WRX is right in the middle while offering performance.

dkneedsnwcr

Just like to say thanks to everybody for offering their opinion. I'm taking it in, doing my own research (although, all one really has to do is read all the posts on here) and trying to determine exactly what it is I want.

To answer JK, I really don't know what I want. As I'm quite sure anything new is going to be a lot better than my current ride. I'm not knocking it, it's just that time changes things.

Guess it's everything. From handling, power, styling, to the little things like the buzzer to tell me I've left the lights on (ok, not the last one, but you get the picture I think). At least I've got my choices narrowed down due to price and choice of transmission, so, it shouldn't take me TOO long to decide.

PS: Could someone tell me where the posts start with respect to reliability?
As I'm sure with all cars, sometimes you're just unlucky and get a lemon. But I'd like to lessen the probability of me getting one.

Once again, thank you everybody for your input. It's been greatly appreciated.

Derek

silver_bullet

Make sure you check out www.i-club.com for more than you'll ever want to read on the subject of WRX pros and cons. Use i-club as a research tool, but be careful not to post a negative comment about Subaru or you'll likely get flamed.

ateixeira

Too much static, IMO. Here you get a more diversified group that is a little more tolerant.

WRX should be reliable if you take good care of it, as any turbo deserves.

-juice

hunter001

I just purchased a new WRX wagon Auto today. I am thoroughly impressed with the "riding on rails" feeling with the almost complete lack of body-roll. Quite a different feel from my current Acura TL.

Also, I am wondering if someone can throw light on this....when coming to a stop (eg.at a stoplight), there is almost the feel of a pretty distinct jerk - feels like a pretty strong transmission kick-down....happened every single time, right before I came to a stop. Is it a "feature" of the WRX, or is it something I need to contact the dealer about ? Is it somehow connected with the VTD AWD system ?

Thanks in advance,
AH

freespec

Actually I was talking about Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V. With 17" wheels at no extra cost and optional Sunroof, it's a much better value than WRX which holds only one advantage now which is AWD but that was $5,000 difference! Don't tell me WRX beats BMW-3 and Audi-A4 in speed. Yes WRX may make it look like BMW and Audi over-valued, but don't Lexus and Acura made M-B and BMW way over-valued? It's German! G, E, R, M, A, N! Actually WRX doesn't have a close rival under $30K since nobody else is offering AWD sedan. That's where exactly Subru want steal your money. If you think it's worth the price you paid, fine! But I guess whoever buys Subarus are really on the budget so I try to teach you how to save money. Nobody has explained to me yet(but yelled/screamed at me) why WRX recently sold at $500-$600 more than invoice other than MSRP just a few month ago? Could those who attacked me tell the truth on the board: how much did you pay for your Subi? You are shamed to say a word. But that's ok because everybody made a mistake so learning is the point here.

paisan

paid... $23.5K w/upgraded stereo rearview mirror and rear diffy protector.

Hmm the Sentra doesn't have 230hp IIRC.
If you think AWD isn't for real. I'll challenge you to an auto-x, a rainy drive, a dry drive, a snowy drive in the car of your choice within the same hp range and weight as my XT6 and we'll see who comes out on top. (My XT6 is 2900lbs, 145hp, 156torque, and AWD)

-mike

sarny

Why don't you take an english class, it might make your posts a little more credible. Also,
why are you so upset with the people who post here?

kostamojen2

Have you driven the Spec-V yet? Nope.

Check the C+D article about it. They said the shifter is horrible, clutch is crummy, interior is junk, and the styling is worse than the Impreza by a long shot. Sure, its their opinion, but I trust it more than yours, especially since they have actualy driven it

wrxguy

spec. I paid 23,900 for my WRX with the spoiler and security package and the carbon fiber trim. Your words come across somewhat antagonistic. But thats okay, Im not looking for approval here.I was all fire and snarl when I was 19 or so also!
my Wrx is wonderful. extra money that I spent on the WRX is worth it to me!
the Spec-V,im sure has plenty of spunk or so the magazines gave a nice report in the Sport Car Compact October review.The article said that the rear suspension was not quite up to par. Article stated that the chassis wasn't quite up to par too.it had some pros and cons as any review does

pfiffer

I believe that we all do ourselves a great disservice by responding to those who choose to post clearly inflammatory remarks at this post. The vast majority of those individuals who choose to write here provide valuable,entertaining and sometimes controversial information. When we choose to respond to those whose intention is simply "get a rise" from us - they have achieved their goal! Apart from outright censorship, I can see no way to control this problem but rather diminish it by ignoring perpetraitors. It takes some self-restraint (which I am short on!), but will help most of us who enjoy this forum to be free of argumentative, mindless commentary which adds 0 value to all of us!!

pattim3

Folks can say what they want (a nice thing in our society), but how we react to what is said makes the difference. As always, Edmunds folks appear to take the high road.

Patti

paisan

my $23.5 also included the spoiler (all yellows have a spoiler)

-mike