Postwar Studebakers

jljac

Everyone below worked for Studebaker when this photo was taken in 1924, although the youngest one did not until about ten years after the photo was taken. My grandmother and grandfather are the bride and groom. The women were my grandmother's sisters who also worked at Studebaker. The youngest one married my uncle Water, who worked at the engine plant until it closed in June 1964. There was a lot of truth to the movie Family of Craftstmen. It is worth purchasing from the Studebaker National Museum.
https://studebakermuseum.org/store/books-and-videos/historical-videos/family-of-- craftsman_00081/

fintail

Here's the building where my local Studebaker dealer was located - building is still there and probably not altered much.

berri

"No need for health insurance then"...and no surplus of ambulance chasers looking for a quick buck! Law used to be a noble profession and only extreme negligence brought about a malpractice suit.

uplanderguy

JL, Thanks for posting--great family pic!!!

uplanderguy

Here's a 1947 photo of my hometown Stude dealer:

http://www.studegarage.com/IMAGES/sign/broadway_filer_oct03.jpg

Here's a 1956 color photo of it:

http://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/dealer/pics/php6uD4xP.jpg

Building still stands, looks largely the same, although the letters are missing off the front and the building has a peaked roof now. The sign holder on the side is still present, but the sign is gone. Small-town dealer with two-car showroom. Seven individual service bays out back. Building sat back off the street a bit with a lot in front. They had a large, blue veritical "Studebaker" neon sign out at the street. Was a laundromat 'til about two years ago; now for rent or sale. In 2004, the shop out back was largely unchanged.

berri

I like that Caribbean

uplanderguy

I'm friends with Mr. Filer, Jr., and he told me that a Doctor Bailey bought that Caribbean and traded in a '55 Thunderbird on it. The serial number on the Caribbean was 5699-1258, eighteen cars from the last Packard convertible. They took several color photos of the Caribbean on delivery day--only 276 Caribbean convertibles were sold in '56 so that was a pretty special thing, especially for a small dealer.

The Filers operated the Studebaker dealer in town for 40 years. Some other interesting new cars they sold, IMHO, were a solid black '56 Golden Hawk that the owner had them install the dual four-barrel-carb setup from the Caribbean, a '63 Lark Daytona convertible, a '64 Daytona convertible in Bordeaux Red with 4-speed, and a black '64 Cruiser with R2 supercharged Avanti engine and bucket seats and floor-shift automatic, in a 4-door sedan...bought by an employee.

fintail

Did that latter car survive? It seems some people even back in the day knew how to option cars that would make them much more desirable later.

uplanderguy

Sadly, not that I'm aware. The original owner is still with us and I know him. He said he drove it 'til around '70 and traded on a new Chevy. Amazingly, a guy who met me through the Stude Club and lived like an hour south of where I grew up, said he plainly remembers going in the summer to a state park near where I lived, and seeing that very R2 4-door Stude on the Chevy dealer's used car lot. Also, a guy from NJ who found out where I was from originally, told me he used to drive through my hometown to call on customers and remembers stopping at the Stude dealer to browse and just seeing that car. These two people brought that car up to me without my mentioning it first!

Supposedly the car was subsequently owned by two teenage drivers. That, and our salty winter environment, probably didn't do that Stude any favors.

That Caribbean does exist, though. Last I heard, it was in Kernersville, NC. It had the plaque "This Caribbean custom-built for A.L. Bailey, M.D." on the dash still, when I saw it in '98. It's a long story on how I found it. At that point, the owner wanted $60K. Nice car, but I'm not really a Packard guy. My dealer friend was pleasantly surprised it still existed. By '98, it was mounted on Packard wire wheels.

fintail

Oh yeah, the rust belt can't help. Too bad. That would be a pretty cool car.

I suspect the Packard also never accumulated many miles either, things like that were probably sunny Sunday and special event cars even when new.

uplanderguy

My post wasn't very clear, but the guy from NJ I mentioned who remembered the R2 Cruiser when a 'current' car, was also a Stude club member who used to show a really nice white with black vinyl half-top '64 GT Hawk with R2 engine at Hershey. He also owned Cadillacs but said none got the attention of that Hawk with the hood open! His Hawk was one of the auto show cars per the build sheet from the Stude museum.

uplanderguy

Hey fin, my hometown dealer sold M-B too (as I've mentioned before)--google "Carl E. Filer Co." in "Images" and there'll be a blurry color pic of a dark green '58 Stude pickup and you can see the neon tri-star sign in the window behind the Stude.

fintail

I like the pic in that search with an old VW Microbus, too.

The "Eastside Motors" listing is the one only about 4 blocks from me

uplanderguy

Did you know that, per that link, the building near you was subsequently called "Bavarian Motors"?

Funny that that site contains info on Washington dealers, and my hometown dealer.

I remember that guy asking for Stude dealer photos, and I had several I sent him. He posted them on his Washington site. The 2004 photo that shows the Parts Dept. door bought that day by me from the building, shows the desk I'm working on right now...that door with the knob removed and a glass cover over it. That's me in the blue jacket, before the beard I have now.

uplanderguy

I have a photo, probably '58-60, of a creamish-colored 190 convertible in front of the Filer dealership building and one of their mechanics standing next to it. The only M-B I really remember around town was our high-school nurse's, which was bought at Filer's. It was a 190 convert, about the color of your fintail, and I think red interior? I know it was a slate blue but not totally certain on the interior.

The school nurse was an older lady, a character, who used to work in our hospital's emergency room too. She was a bit pushy but likeable anyway. As a student, you couldn't pull anything over her eyes though. She was hip to us! LOL She was driving that 190 in the early and mid'70's.

lemko

...in a TV commercial for a movie about Mandela. Looked to be a 1964 or 1965 Studebaker. Were Studebakers sold in South Africa?

fintail

I didn't know it was a car dealer at all until I saw that site. By looking at the building, one can assume what it was, but I never paid attention, as the awning distracts from the age (my area is relatively new). Interesting that a BMW dealer was in something small, as the local dealer now is in a gigantic facility that fills a square block or two. Interesting that a couple 190SLs ended up in your small town too - they couldn't have been too common in that area then. I'd imagine a few sedans sold maybe to engineer or professor types.

uplanderguy

I believe I've heard that Studes were sold in South Africa into the '60's. I've also seen those Studes in the 'Mandela' commercial.

uplanderguy

Mr. Filer Sr. himself drove a 220 sedan, black with red leather. I have a pic or two of it. Mr. Filer Jr. said his Dad really loved that car. I remember that I thought it was a 180 but had extra chrome trim. You taught me that it was a 220!

texases

There was a Stude factory in South Africa (owned by somebody else, it seems):
http://www.studebakerhistory.com/dnn/Facilities/International/tabid/77/Default.a- spx

uplanderguy

Last 'regular production line' (i.e., 'Lark'-type or Hawk) U.S.-built Studebaker was built 50 years ago this coming Friday, 12/20 (it was a Friday in '63 too). The city of South Bend is doing several things to commemorate the event and remember Studebaker for its 111 years of manufacturing there--3-minute TV newscast here:

http://www.wndu.com/home/headlines/Fireworks-and-search-lights-to-mark-Studebaker-plant-closing-anniversary-235150081.html?fb_action_ids=221210334724964&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=[1445027922384855]&action_type_map=["og.recommends"]&action_ref_map=[]

fintail

Interesting to see who bought the cars when new, before MB was a real status symbol. I expect most sold to engineer/doctor/professor types.

@uplanderguy said:
Mr. Filer Sr. himself drove a 220 sedan, black with red leather. I have a pic or two of it. Mr. Filer Jr. said his Dad really loved that car. I remember that I thought it was a 180 but had extra chrome trim. You taught me that it was a 220!

lemko

There was a doctor in my old neighborhood who had twin white Mercedes 280S's. I think one was his wife's. I was just past his old place last Thursday and it's vacant. When I was a kid, his home and office were across the street from my old elementary school, (itself long since torn down). The garage door would be open and you'd see the cars side by side.

fintail

My fintail was originally owned by a doctor, per the car's old paperwork. I looked up what he registered as his address, but it's actually a commercial building now (Beverly Hills), not a house, probably wasn't a house location 50 years ago either. The original owner was maybe kind of a kook, he'd write comments in the owners manual about things that perplexed him - the speedometer and transmission especially.

@lemko said:
There was a doctor in my old neighborhood who had twin white Mercedes 280S's. I think one was his wife's. I was just past his old place last Thursday and it's vacant. When I was a kid, his home and office were across the street from my old elementary school, (itself long since torn down). The garage door would be open and you'd see the cars side by side.

uplanderguy

South Bend's commemoration of the plant closing on December 20, fifty years ago, made the New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/24/automobiles/a-studebaker-event-in-south-bend-ind-focuses-on-revival.html?smid=tw-share&_r=1&

uplanderguy

Haven't seen this pic in years....the final South Bend-built 'regular production' (Lark-type or Hawk) car, the Bordeaux Red Daytona Hardtop R1, is shown on the rear of a transport truck on 12/20/63, before it was removed and given to the City of South Bend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/21/automobiles/south-bend-ind-to-recall-studebakers-1963-departure.html?src=recg

That angle of the cars reminds me why I like them so much. I like the wide-open rear wheel opening, rather unusual at that time, and that there's no fat on the cars at all.

gagrice

I have warm memories of the 3 Studebakers I owned. The 55 Commander was the one I should have kept. Traded for a 1956 Ford PU truck in about 1962. My dad had several Studebaker PU trucks. All bought when they were old. Constant maintenance back then. I remember going to the Studebaker dealer in Los Angeles when the Avanti came out. Of course it was out of my price range back then.

uplanderguy

People either love or hate Avantis; I like them a lot but they're not my favorite Studebaker, but I think they were a neat car for a small company like Studebaker to come out with. I also think it was neat that they kept a truck line through the end of U.S. production--the lowest-priced pickups in America, and other trucks, including Diesels, up to two-ton size.

gagrice

I think my dad's last Studebaker PU was a late 50s model. He liked Packard cars. Last one he had was a 1949 4door. I learned to drive in that car. He was really a Pontiac fan. He had several used one. The only new one he bought was a total disaster. It was the 61 Tempest Wagon. Had some strange rear transmission. In the shop more than it was on the road. He kept that Stude PU running well into the 1970s.

uplanderguy

I like the looks of that era Tempest you mention--I could really like a '62 LeMans coupe with the Buick aluminum V8 they offered (although almost no Tempest got that engine)--but a Studebaker friend of mine who's older than me and far, far more mechanically inclined, told me I'd have to be a masochist to want one of those cars because of the very issues you alluded to--rear transmission.

uplanderguy

While at the Studebaker National Museum archives a few years back, I was looking at detail of the cars my small hometown dealer sold from Sept. '63 through April '66. I was surprised to see that at least two, maybe three, M-B's were traded on new Studebakers. (The info included name, street address, occupation of the buyer, and trade-in.)

gagrice

Wasn't the the period where Studebaker and Packard merged. If memory serves me those were luxury cars with potent V8 engines. Even my old 52 Studebaker V8 was peppy for the time and got pretty darn good mileage. Far better than my Ford flatheads in both a Ford and Mercury. The Stude had a 3 speed column shifter. I got over 20 MPG on a regular basis.

uplanderguy

Packard, in a better cash position but having lost market status and placement, bought Studebaker in '54, shortly before the '55 models were introduced. Packard finally introduced a V8 at that time. Both brands had improved '55 sales numbers over '54, but Studebaker's fell 33% for '56 and Packard's "a thumping 67%" in the same period (quote from Business Week). Packards for '57 and '58 were really Studebaker Presidents, and the name was retired at the end of the '58 model year. The Lark was introduced for '59 and provided Studebaker's greatest one-year profit in its 107-year history.

I think I could enjoy a '56 Packard Four-Hundred hardtop. I know I could enjoy a '57 Packard Country Sedan (station wagon).

berri

Some different things I read indicated that Nance was over his head at Packard and should have joined the American Motors merger of Nash, Rambler and Hudson. As for Studebaker, their big issue was supposedly a way too high break even point attributable to old facilities and UAW excesses. I'm thinking that after the Defense department war contracts expired Packard ran low on cash which really precluded them from making all of the necessary product updates while Cadillac was running full steam ahead. BTW, for good fries you need to go west and hit In and Out Burger

gagrice

_BTW, for good fries you need to go west and hit In and Out Burger _

Had some Thursday. They are good burgers and fries.

uplanderguy

Berri, I agree with your assessment. Studebaker paid more than the Big Three--what was up with that?! Supposedly they weren't forthcoming with Packard about their breakeven point, either, and Packard didn't review fully. Still, it was Packard's collapse that put the company into Curtiss-Wright's hands a few years later. The Lark bought the company a reprieve, and only because of the Lark was the company able to survive into the mid-sixties. It's interesting to note, I think, that Packard's Nance went onto manage the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln divisions at Ford but was fired in 1960. Edsel had two lines, a 'junior' and 'senior' line, much like Packard.

berri

Packard's Nance went onto manage the Mercury-Edsel-Lincoln divisions at Ford but was fired in 1960

Interesting, I didn't know that. He wouldn't be the first Henry "the deuce" Ford unexpected personnel decision. I think Nance would have probably come on too late to have much influence on the MEL styling of the 58-60 models given the design lead times back then. However, I've seen some drawings that are at least purported to be the next gen Packard had the company not faltered. I think they have some resemblance to the 58-60 big box Lincoln's and the 60 Mercury.

uplanderguy

I agree totally with Packard's prototypes in the mid-fifties, looking like later Lincoln-Mercury products. Nance went there prior to Edsel's introduction. Supposedly he and McNamara locked horns. Not sure if McNamara had the Deuce's ears, or not. Nance joined a bank in Cleveland in '60 and worked there 'til he died at his weekend place in Bellaire, Michigan in '84, at age 84. He last lived in Chagrin Falls, OH, a nice, smaller town maybe 20 miles north of me.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=75035088

uplanderguy

Here's the final resting place of my favorite Stude exec, Sherwood Egbert. Well, I should say I like the products under his tenure best at Studebaker:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=61201529&PIpi=36167441

It's rather an amazing, if unusual, website. Most any remotely-famous person you could imagine, will come up there.

berri

You have to wonder what if Egbert hadn't passed away when he did? Would he have been better able to resolve the cost and union problems. Same goes for Mason at Nash (American Motors). Romney ended up buying that company time with his successful transition to Rambler domination, but he passed on acquiring Willy's Overland Jeep. Would a broader combination of companies have been able to better compete with D3, or was that battle over in reality and Romney (Rambler) held the only winning hand possible at the time? Interesting stuff to think about with all of those independent companies back then.

uplanderguy

Nash was probably the best-managed of the independents then, but I think their
products were the snooziest!

uplanderguy

A couple mildly-amusing stories about Sherwood Egbert. Someone posted a bunch of board meeting minutes from '63 on the S.D.C. site a year or so ago--from the Studebaker Museum. One had to do with Egbert liking a mock-wood steering wheel as an upgrade for the '64 Avanti. The minutes say that more than one person thought the wheel looked cheap. The final statement in the meeting was "Mr. Egbert approved the wheel for production"! LOL Also, I heard a Studebaker advertising guy in South Bend talk a couple years ago, and he was saying that he told Mr. Egbert in a meeting how he disagreed with something that the Company was doing in advertising. He said that Egbert said, "Ray, your opinion is important...but not to me". You had to be there, but it garnered a good chuckle.

lemko

They were playing first episodes of classic TV series on Antenna TV today. They played the first episode of Mr. Ed and a Studebaker Lark is prominently parked in front of Wilbur's new house.

uplanderguy

Thanks. Fintail posted it in the other old-car forum, and it's a '62. I don't know why, I thought there had been '61 Larks on Mr. Ed, but apparently not. My dealer friend said he had to kick in for every car sold, to pay for Mr. Ed and he always thought the show was dumb. I liked it as a kid, but now I'd probably only watch it for the Studebakers.

jljac

Did anyone see the 1903 Studebaker in the Rose Parade yesterday? Oldest vehicle in the parade. http://www.examiner.com/article/budweiser-clydesdales-are-back-the-100th-rose-parade-thanks-to-pres-jenkins This site has been changed and is very confusing now.

uplanderguy

Did not see it, but thanks for posting, JL. Pretty cool!

fintail

It's funny, a lot of shows of that era aired on Nickelodeon back in the 80s, and I watched them as a kid - so they feel like a part of my childhood as they would for someone born 20-25 years earlier.

I always thought Mr. Ed was a bit goofy, even with the catchy song and funny horse voice. However, I've always enjoyed "Dennis the Menace", even as an adult - Joseph Kearns really makes the show. Too bad he passed relatively young. That show was definitely Ford sponsored.

@uplanderguy said:
Thanks. Fintail posted it in the other old-car forum, and it's a '62. I don't know why, I thought there had been '61 Larks on Mr. Ed, but apparently not. My dealer friend said he had to kick in for every car sold, to pay for Mr. Ed and he always thought the show was dumb. I liked it as a kid, but now I'd probably only watch it for the Studebakers.

uplanderguy

I liked Dennis the Menace too, until he became like 13 and was wearing a slingshot in his back pocket--LOL. Joseph Kearns was a perfect Mr. Wilson. Gale Gordon was good with Lucy but wasn't "Mr. Wilson" IMHO. We had a neighborhood "Mr. Wilson" with the perfect yard and grumpy about balls, etc., landing in his yard. Like Mrs. Wilson, his wife was as sweet as he was grumpy!

jljac

Interesting story here about why the 1960 Valiant looked so much like the 1959 Lark http://www.curbsideclassic.com/blog/automotive-history-why-the-1959-studebaker-lark-front-end-looked-so-much-like-the-1960-valiant-front-end-it-was-stolen/ I like the coments too, especially "geeber" who says since Virgil Exner took Studebaker designs to Chrysler it was only fair that Studebaker returned the favor by way of Exner's son.

Also intersting to note that the Valiant only looked like the Lark for three years - 1960-62. In 1963 it looked more like the Rambler American. That was one of the Lark's big problems - it looked too much the same for five years, 1959-63. Studebaker also needed a stronger 6-cylinder engine - if only as an option. They knew that back in 1955 when Studebaker president James Nance tried to buy 6-cylinder motors from AMC and Romney said "no." I hate to admit it because I like the Avanti so much, but Egbert should have put the money to develope the Avanti to better use. Then too, the 1964 Studebaker line was so nice that "it was a good death." Better to be remembered for the Avanti, GT Hawk and Daytona than the Eagle, Gremlin , Matador and Pacer.

uplanderguy

I like '62 and later Studes--I really like the '63 4-door sedans--but overall, I think the '64 lineup was excellent in many ways. I guess it was too little, too late. If it were me, I'd skip '59 and move everything else up one year at Studebaker--but of course you can't do that! LOL