Postwar Studebakers

uplanderguy

Someone once told me that in their opinion only, Volo's cars tended to not be that great of condition for the asking prices. I'd still like to see the place and don't blame you one bit for stopping!

berri

Funny how that Studebaker was considered low when it came out, but it is taller than the Olds next to it.

uplanderguy

Particularly, in '53 when the Studebaker coupes came out, they looked low compared to everything else. I saw someone once write about a '53 Stude coupe next to a GM of the same year, "It's like Rita Hayworth standing next to Kate Smith", LOL.

I think that may be a reason the basic bodyshell could get away with still being sold as a '64 model.

uplanderguy

Someone posted here recently about someone running for office in their area named "Studebaker".

In our hometown, I remember a family named "Studebaker" and at the time, they drove either a '64 or '65 Studebaker Cruiser.

omarman

uplanderguy said:

Someone posted here recently about someone running for office in their area named "Studebaker".

In our hometown, I remember a family named "Studebaker" and at the time, they drove either a '64 or '65 Studebaker Cruiser.

I remember when president Ford took office and told the press, "I'm a Ford not a Lincoln."

Years ago I was talking with a car salesman who had been a CPD officer long time ago during the era of local TV programming in Columbus. One day he made a traffic stop and found the driver to be Marvin Fishman, aka Bob Marvin, aka "Flippo the Clown" wearing the full makeup and suit. Apparently Flippo had been doing some public appearance that day and asked the officer what the problem was. My friend told him, "Every day I have to pull over some clown in traffic...I guess today it's your turn."

Flippo was not amused and my friend thought maybe he'd heard that line before.
And at that traffic stop Marvin was NOT driving this:



https://youtu.be/Rm7oKOoGZ5w
"Love ya, keep smiling and don't fight!" - Flippo

ab348

omarman said:

And at that traffic stop Marvin was NOT driving this:

That is a very early McDonalds in the background of that shot. I remember going to one like that in the late '60s.

berri

Isetta's - long before safety standards

fintail

I think they might be priced a grade high, maybe hoping for impulse buyers who came to see the museum. Most appeared to be driver quality, many with apparent quickie cosmetic restorations, but most had claims to run and drive fine. Still a few pretty cars, and fun to look at.

uplanderguy said:

Someone once told me that in their opinion only, Volo's cars tended to not be that great of condition for the asking prices. I'd still like to see the place and don't blame you one bit for stopping!

berri

Years back I believe Volo started out as a car museum, but then took cars for sale on consignment on the side. Now they do a pretty decent business. It's Chicago, like New York you gotta haggle and stuff!

fintail

I took a number of pics at Volo which I will eventually share, but I only recall the one Stude.

There were a few cars I quite liked, but most didn't push my buttons. The Duesenberg display and movie cars were cool in their own right.

uplanderguy

I love the Auburn-Cord-Duesenberg Museum in Auburn, IN but I know you only have so much time.

fintail

I plan to head there the day after Stude.

fintail

I visited the Stude museum on this cold snowy day, it was pretty cool and well worth the price of admission. Lots of interesting history there, and of course I checked out the basement too (maybe the first time I have seen a Rockne car in person.

I also didn't expect to see this on display:



The motorhome/RV hall of fame was also pretty cool, some fun unusual material there.

uplanderguy

They have temporary displays from time-to-time that include other cars, to keep local interest I think. I wish they'd always keep a Studebaker on the turntable though. It's wonderful to drive by there at night and see it lit up like a showroom window, with the car on a turntable When I was last there, they had a perfect charcoal gray with perfect-factory-width whitewalls and tires, '58 Packard Hawk on the turntable.

As I've noted before, my favorite car there is the red '64 Daytona Hardtop R1 4-speed that is the last car off the regular (Lark-type and Hawk) line. The placard in front says "less than 50 miles" but I've stuck my head in the driver's window before and it has 28 miles. It's literally a NOS Studebaker, and a historically-significant one. The last Studebaker of all is the same year, model, and exterior color I own now, but with black interior and white vinyl top. It was sent from Hamilton, Ontario to South Bend, where an executive drove it for three years. It has 19K miles but was painted a few years back by the Ontario chapter of the S.D.C. I can remember it sitting in the old museum building, still on snow tires.

I'm also a big fan of their cute little turquoise '61 Champ pickup with the old, double-walled, short bed.

Amazingly, the Packard Predictor showcar, which I think looks cartoonish, actually runs and drives. They had it out a couple years ago at some multi-make Concours show somewhere.

fintail

There was a themed display along the lines of the "10 most significant cars". The Citroen DS was on the list, and apparently a local loaned his example of the most sought after variant for display.

Is this the Hawk?:



I probably got a pic of the Champ too, I definitely remember the Predictor and the red Daytona.

uplanderguy

That's it. Probably to my eyes, the prettiest version of a Packard Hawk I've seen.

uplanderguy

I've sat in that four-door Avanti prototype, ugly as it is. Long story short, it sat upstairs in the Avanti II building 'til the '80's and made the move to Youngstown, OH It sat in the Avanti building there until a guy I know in our club arranged a deal for the museum to get it and a second, black prototype (also ugly, LOL). They were built in France.

fintail

There are a surprising amount of prototypes on display, someone had foresight to save them.

I remember seeing the Carl Filer 52 hardtop, too.

uplanderguy

Our at the Proving Ground, they had just left various prototypes sit in the woods. Some are still there, although beyond-saving. The current owners of the Proving Ground would never tell people where the cars and trucks were when they provided photographs. Well, in the era of Google map, etc., an overhead view showed they were in the middle of the three-mile oval!

I am aware of a couple cars that were rescued from there many years later.

There was a white '53 coupe at the museum that I thought was striking, but I remember Ed Filer telling me he didn't like the '53's, so I thought I wouldn't 'adopt' that one in his memory, LOL

fintail

The white 53 is amazing, such a pure design. I assume it is very correct:



The 64 display is cool, with the sign behind it:



This Avanti was at the neighboring National Auto and Truck Museum, not sure about the wheels/tires:

uplanderguy

The '53 looks great in white, too, I think. Very authentic. And of course, that '64 makes me weak in the knees. 28 miles. I've mentioned this before, but the red car was a retail order and Studebaker filled the order by pulling an unsold car out of factory inventory and adding and deleting options, and donated the last car to the City of South Bend.

I liked the NATMUS but I don't remember that Avanti there. Wheels are aftermarket. Just today our Ohio Region S.D.C. voted to make donations to both the Studebaker National Museum and the NATMUS. How did you like the A-C-D?

uplanderguy

On that '53, it has the tri-star hood emblem. Mid-year, Mercedes-Benz had complained that it was a copy of their tri-star and that Studebaker needed to stop using it, so later '53's didn't have it. This, of course, was before when Studebaker was the U.S. distributor of M-B vehicles, starting in '57 through '65.

fintail

A-C-D was amazing, as expected. The showroom was very cool, and I saw quite a few cars I had only seen before in books. Well-worth the visit.



I wasn't aware of the hood emblem dispute, funny.

uplanderguy

Being an old soul, I enjoyed just sitting in the furniture of the A-C-D showroom, just soaking in all that thirties ambience!

For me, it's hard to believe so much automotive greatness came out of that small town.

fintail

The amount of original detailing surprised me, as I assume it is all original to the building. Even the floor surfaces appeared to be period.



I had the same thought, amazing that all of this came out of that town, not to knock it (too much), but one would never guess it today. The facility must really be a local labor of love. I noticed a few cars there that came via WA, at least a couple of them donations (including what I think was the newest arrival, an unrestored looking 35 Imperial Airflow).

uplanderguy

The upstairs offices, even the men's room, are like stepping right back into the '30's.

You no doubt saw it, but they have a really clean, authentic "Avanti Red" '63 Avanti on the second floor.

I read that Dillinger robbed the bank in Auburn back in the '30's, no doubt figuring there was a lot of Duesenberg and Auburn cash there, LOL.

uplanderguy

Back to the Stude museum '64 display for a minute--that was an actual billboard photo. Someone found several unused '64 billboards maybe a decade or so back and the museum actually put one that was the same visual as this one, on an outside billboard near the old Administration Building, cool idea. Gone now.

fintail

I have to imagine when the company shut down, the building was just mothballed and not touched until collectors got it going again.

I didn't notice the Avanti, maybe it wasn't there, as I don't see it in pics, and I photographed most cars there. There was a special exhibit of boattail cars that might have caused some re-arranging. I do recall seeing a few things I had only read about - the Tasco and Ruxton come to mind. Their red Tucker was also quite pretty. Here's the Airflow, IIRC donated from someone just a town over from mine. Still wearing WA plates:

fintail

Here's a Stude from NATMUS:

berri

The color doesn't do much for me, but I actually like those cars in post coupe rather than hardtop mode. Same goes for GM Intermediates in the late 60's.

uplanderguy

Unusual to see a '55 without the side trim. Sure looks cleaner in this (low-line) model. I'm not sure if the bumper guards were standard or not, but the car would look better without them I think.

fintail

Henry Ford Museum has a Stude, too:

uplanderguy

I remember that '56 Chevy from my three earlier visits there--1987, 1990, and 1995.

Somewhere in the house we have a color pic of my mother-in-law, age 17, sitting in her parents' new '56 Bel Air convertible in that same (popular) color scheme.

Again, I remember them also having an Avanti there, a gray one, but that was a long time ago. I think I remember the bullet-nose. In 1990 when I was there they had a temporary display on Bill Mitchell of GM Styling and my parents and I (my wife and I took them; they'd have never driven there themselves) were pleased to see the mention of his growing up in our hometown there.

uplanderguy

That Stude is a '51. The one-piece curved windshield was still somewhat unusual by that time.

uplanderguy

In the background of the pic you took at the S.N.M. of the white '53 Stude, I can see the white '57 Golden Hawk 400. One thing I really like about that model, as well as the Packard Hawk, is that leather seating, same in both cars. Talk about "buttah".

First Studebaker Drivers' Club international meet I took my old white '63 Daytona Skytop to, was in '95 at Henry Ford/Greenfield Village. On show day it poured rain all day, but still a fun time. I mentioned that Fair Lane, Henry's mansion, was a fascinating tour.

I had only gotten my '63 back from its two years at the restoration shop, the weekend before, and I was laid off a week before. We decided to cut back on our time there, but my wife still followed me in her Caprice Classic there and we brought our one-year-old daughter. I was younger and brasher then.

uplanderguy

I think the Stude Museum could use a '57-65 Benz of some sort, a '59 Lark (which really saved the company), and a large Studebaker truck--I'd pick a sixties Diesel two-ton. Takes a lot of space I know, though. One thing that differentiated Studebaker from other independents, was building trucks, including large ones, right up until U.S. production ended. Seems like a lot of folks don't know that.

As a buff, I do think we're lucky to have a museum like that. There's not an AMC museum, Nash museum, Hudson or Willys museum of that type that I'm aware of, and I've been to two Ohio Packard museums and they're good, but meaning no disrespect, neither is the caliber of the Stude Museum.

My goal in the next year is to get to the Gilmore near Kalamazoo, MI. A friend told me he spent two days there.

fintail

I think this is the car you refer to. They really cram em in there:



A little display and a car or two related to Studebaker handling MB distribution would be a good exhibit, I think. It is a part of history few probably realize, especially people under 50-60 years old.

I plan to go to Gilmore tomorrow.

uplanderguy

That's the car. Not a fan of Golden Hawks in general, but love the leather interior in that specific model--only 41 built. I like how they show the evolution of the C/K bodies right there--the '53, the '57, and the '63.

I think I'd heard that in cold weather, not every display at Gilmore is open. I'll be curious to hear your opinion as I only know one person who's been there and he liked it...a lot. I think he went in the summertime though.

I'm sure I told you this before, but my dealer friend used to pronounce Mercedes, as "MUR-si-deez".

I think out in the big open area where they have the body drop, they have one or two plaques that hung outside the Administration Building. One says "Mercedes Benz Sales, Inc." under the divisions, if I'm remembering correctly. Minimally, I've seen pics of that plaque and I know there are one or two in that vestibule area--minimally, one says "The Studebaker Corporation" and I think one says "Studebaker-Packard Corporation".

There's that nice little '63 Lark Regal sedan in Blue Mist we had spoken about.

ab348

This is rather odd. This car sold on BaT in September of last year for $15K and now is listed again. The text in the write-up this time is almost word-for-word identical from the previous sale, as are many of the pictures:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1957-studebaker-silver-hawk-7/

Seems like a nice enough car. Interior is sharp. Not crazy about the modern air filter.

fintail

Here's the blue 63, pretty car. I see just a touch of fintail in it, with the white wheel and overall proportions:



MB became probably the most successful premium brand in the US in the past 40 years, I think some would be surprised to know they were first marketed in large scale by Studebaker.

uplanderguy

I've said it often, but a '63 is my favorite four-door Studebaker. I'm reminded of M-B and for a compact it has somewhat of a formal look. Always been a fan of 1963 "Blue Mist" paint too.

uplanderguy

Thanks ab348; I didn't remember that car from before. If the seller thinks he's going to "turn and earn", he's probably in for a surprise.

I'm a jerky purist (LOL) so that engine compartment and interior bug me.

ab348

uplanderguy said:

I'm a jerky purist (LOL) so that engine compartment and interior bug me.

I'm usually that way too, but the two-tone interior looks good to me on this. I do wish they hadn't gone with contrasting piping though. I agree with you on the engine compartment.

uplanderguy

The major Stude NOS and repro parts vendor, who recently sold his business to an employee, has a four-door '63 Cruiser (same body as the blue car above; plusher trim) in black with the optional red broadcloth interior and folding black sunroof. I would love to see the car; have only heard about it. He told me he bought it from the old-lady original owner who had done some 'parking by feel' but that it was in overall very good original condition. I think the 'Skytop' option would really add some M-B "reminders" to those cars. The 'Skytop' is rare on Studebaker hardtops but extremely rare on two-and-four-door sedans.

fintail

On MBs of the fintail era, there could be a metal sliding sunroof, but it is an uncommon option. A sliding cloth top would be an aftermarket item and quite rare indeed, I have only seen a few pics of a fintail so equipped.

A sliding cloth top is a very European touch, was it a feature on any other normal postwar American car?

uplanderguy

I was thinking the Golde sunroofs had been used on some M-B's. Maybe Pontons. When Studebaker used them ('61-63 model years) no other domestic manufacturer offered them.

ab348

fintail said:

On MBs of the fintail era, there could be a metal sliding sunroof, but it is an uncommon option. A sliding cloth top would be an aftermarket item and quite rare indeed, I have only seen a few pics of a fintail so equipped.

A sliding cloth top is a very European touch, was it a feature on any other normal postwar American car?

I'm pretty sure a sliding cloth top was optional on a few domestics. There was the Buick Skylark Sun Coupe of course: https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2016/11/1972-Buick-Skylark-Sun-Coupe/3750283.html

But I have this nagging sense there were others too, either Chrysler or AMC. Just cannot zero in on which.

EDIT: According to this a fabric sunroof made by ASC was available on '71/'72 Dusters and Demons: https://bringatrailer.com/2016/06/22/restored-3404-speed-w-factory-sunroof-1971-plymouth-duster/

uplanderguy

I've seen a ton of Dusters in my day, including those with a crank-open metal sunroof, but have never seen a fabric sliding sunroof before.

Buick Sun Coupe, '72-73 Novas and Venturas with "SkyRoof" option, yes, I've seen in person, ten years after Studebaker. I have to say though, my old '63 was the first Studebaker I'd seen in person with the feature, and it is on that car's production order (build sheet). I'd seen pics of Studebakers with them before.

I am nearly (but not totally) certain that the sunroofs GM used, like Studebaker, had "Golde" written on the metal handle inside the car. One would think Chrysler might've used the same source.

ab348

I believe Golde was the predecessor name to ASC.

uplanderguy

Might be, although I thought I remembered GM's newer than '71 with "Golde" on the handle. I could well be wrong. I didn't see anything in the '71 Duster brochure about folding cloth tops.

UPDATE: It does appear online that Golde morphed into ASC.