"The Elantra not as nice"...have you checked the car out in person yet? What are you basing your statement on? Which cars have you seen & driven already? Best to drive them all back to back to get the best idea of which one will work for you. Don't rely on what others say to make your decision...you need to be a hands on test driver. Good luck!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
"The Elantra not as nice"...have you checked the car out in person yet? What are you basing your statement on?
I sat in the new Elantra at the LA Auto show, and IMHO the interior was noticeably cheaper than any premium cars. OK for its class, but the OP wanted a loaded nice interior.
You're right, it's about an inch wider than the other compacts but it is shorter than many others and has less passenger volume than just about all the others. What is your point?
I live in NYC and one of the benefits of a compact car is also that the car is narrower as well as shorter. A narrower car is easier to navigate around many of the obstacles faced in the NYC type of driving environment.
The Mazda3 and the Corolla are about 69 inches wide.
Passenger volume is often misleading. Other than the Prius which has a lot of room in the backseat I don't think anyone would consider the passenger room midsize regardless of what the EPA says. I have sat in the back seats of the pevious Elantra, Civic, Mazda 3, Cruze and Corolla and with the exception of the 3 being slightly smaller there was no real difference in any of them.
If you didn't notice a difference in the back seat room of the 2007-10 Elantra compared to the Mazda3, Civic, or Corolla... did you have the front seat back all the way? I noticed a huge (no pun intended) difference in rear seat leg room between the Elantra and the others, especially the Mazda3. Part of this is the Elantra's rear seat sits higher than others, with good toe space plus good knee room.
The Prius has a lot of LEG room in the back, but width is compact-style. Best small car for leg room in back IMO is the Versa, also Elantra Touring. Both have limo-like leg room in back.
Ok, I see where you're coming from. I can appreciate what you're saying as I have driven often in Europe where smaller cars are a lot easier to get around in. But, I don't think an inch one way or the other would influence me much in the selection of one car over the over. Every single other thing being equal...ok, maybe but we all know that is never going to happen.
This is Justin from Ford Customer Service. Two vehicles that we offer that I feel will meet your needs are the 2011 Fiesta or 2012 Focus. The 2011 Fiesta starts out at only $13,320 and has an outstanding fuel economy of up to 29 mpg city and 40 mpg hwy. The Focus will be available during this spring and starts out at $16, 995. Some features across both vehicles that may be appealing to you are: Voice-activated SYNC, Intelligent Access with Push-Button Start, Ambient Lighting, and heated seats. An exclusive technology that is only available in the 2012 Focus is MyFord Touch. Check out this newly developed feature at: www.Ford.com/Technology/Sync/MyFordTouch. Be sure to navigate throughout the website to find out the Fiesta too!
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact our Marketing Program Headquarters at 1-800-334-4375.
Justin: I was all ready too pick up my new 2011 Fiesta SES today but I am not. I was dealing with 2 local Ford dealers and when I wrote the dealer who I did not buy from to thank them for their time the salseman replied with a very nasty email. I then told him that I was sorry but I had to pick because today is the last day for some rebates and he sent me another nasty email. I was trading in my last Toyota and would of had 3 Fords in my driveway but for now I am sticking with my Toyota. I have since sent his emails to the owner of the dealership and to Ford corporate. It's sad to see Ford bust their butt designing and building cool cars just to see the dealerships stick with their 1970s attitude
Have you sat in the Mazda2? It was surprisingly roomy and peppy. Shares a lot of the features with the Fiesta (minus being extremely quiet).
It shares 3 things with the Fiesta: wheel bearings, strut tower and similar platform design. In all reality, the Fiesta and Mazda2 are very very different.
Funny, I felt the interior was pretty nice so it's really all based on personal perception. Doubt we'll seriously consider a Ford product, we just don't like the brand...again, our preference. Nor would we ever consider a VW, BMW or a Benz. Nice cars & all, but we basically just need economical transportation with some bells & whistles...since we'd never ever finance, we try to keep the price at around $18k with a trade in. Just the way we were raised, we're not fancy folk & don't require the best or top of the line. Though I did fantasize about the C Class, I knew it was just a dream and had fun test driving it, never serious about a purchase...again, out of our comfort zone.
Time will tell what she ends up with, but it'll last us for many miles down the road. We'll start test driving after tax season is over for sure.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
It was the best experience when I took one for a test drive last August, like nothing I've ever driven before in my life. I still get letters asking me to come back down & work out a deal. In my dreams, but if I ever did take the plunge, wifey would probably want it. When I was going to trade for a Volvo S40 two years ago, she was already telling me that we' be "sharing" it which I shot down immediately. We have different driving styles. She accelerates, lets off the gas, accelerates again, etc. which gives me a headache with the choppy, lurchy ride. Very annoying & her mpg's in her Mazda3s are pitiful. I, on the other hand, keep my foot on the accelerator & adjust my foot to stay at a constant speed with none of the lurching & I get 30 mpg's in the city with the Civic. That's why she doesn't drive my car at all...it's still as tight as when I bought it while her car has rattles & looks to be in fair condition. Top dollar we won't get...a perfect private sale car I'd think.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Hi, this is Justin with Ford Customer Service. I am sorry to hear that you have had a negative experience with a dealership. We are very interested in understanding what you experienced and trying to assist. Please contact our Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673 at a time that is convenient to you. Unfortunately, we are unable to address your concern on a public forum.
Kind regards, Justin Ford Customer Service Division
Saw an interesting article in the April C/D, which detailed the US/Canadian content of every car made in North America. I learned that for a car to be considered a "domestic" product by Uncle Sam, it needs to have at least 75% US/Canadian content. By that reckoning, there's only one "domestic" compact: the Focus (84%) from Wayne, MI. But that figure is based on the current (2011) Focus. So I wonder what the domestic content of the 2012 Focus will be.
US/Canadian content for other compacts ranges from a low of 1% (for the Elantra, assembled in Alabama) to 70% for the Civic. Most compact sedans built in NA seem to have pretty low (< 50%) US/Canadian content, except for Focus, Civic, and Sonic (65%). And the upcoming Verano is estimated to have 75% US/Canadian content--so that will be a "domestic" compact when it rolls out.
I made my annual pilgrimage to the Greater Twin Cities Auto Show today. I especially wanted to compare the newer compacts: Cruze, Elantra, Focus, Forte, and Jetta (and toss in the Verano and the refreshed Corolla). I was very disappointed that there were no Foci to touch or sit in--just a sedan on a turntable, guarded by a nice looking young woman with a P90 (ok, kidding about the P90). The Focus looked nice inside and out, but I really have to get closer to it. But there was no new Civic at all, so at least Ford had a Focus to look at.
Chevy had several Cruzes in their large display. To their credit, they even had a stripped LS, at $17k MSRP. And I really, really liked that stripped LS. I think it's a great value. It has a high-quality interior--maybe best in class; nice two-tone treatment on the seats and dash; all the safety equipment one could hope for; a very smooth short-throw 6-speed with a knob that would look OK in a car twice the price; 8-way adjustable drivers seat and passenger seat; power windows and locks with remote locking; decent-looking wheel covers; and good FE ratings (26/36 I think). And I know dealers in my area put big discounts on LSes. However, I don't see a Cruze LS in my garage in the future. Chevy made the bone-headed decision to not offer cruise on the Cruze LS, not even as an option. Since I do make long trips on occasion, I really need cruise. I could even live with the manual mirrors. In order to get cruise, I'd have to spend nearly $20k list on a 1LT with an options package (and spare tire and license plate bracket too). Very disappointing.
So on to the Elantra. I'd sat in the new Elantra a couple of times before, so this was a refresher. I still like the Elantra a lot, as it has a great combo of high FE, big interior (great leg room in back), sharp styling, and a good price for the feature content. And cruise is easy to get. :P So it's on my "A" list, in GLS with AT form (maybe Preferred package also; those alloys are pretty sharp).
The biggest surprise in this class was the Jetta. I was prepared to not like it very much, based on what I had read about it. This was the first time I'd seen it, and sat in it. And it's a pretty darn nice small car, based on looking and sitting. First, it doesn't look bad at all in person. Conservative, yes, but the rear evokes Audi and the lines are clean and honest. Second, the back seat leg room is fantastic--even better than the Elantra's. And the seat cushion is high and there's good head room also. I was very comfortable in back, and in the driver's seat. VW hasn't lost its touch there, even though there's few adjustments. The main difference between the new Jetta's interior and old Jetta (and current Golf) is the new Jetta has hard plastics throughout. But they are decent quality plastics. The doors close with a solid thunk. The main problem I see with the Jetta is, in order to get competitive FE, and a low price, you need to go with the 2.0S with 115 hp. It might be a best fit for someone who wants the back seat leg room of a midsized car but smaller outside. But then, the Elantra fits that bill also--not as much head room in back as the Jetta though.
I checked the Forte also and didn't like it quite as much as the Elantra, but noticed that one can get the EX with alloys and a moonroof for just a bit more than the Elantra GLS with Preferred package. And the dash is fine, if not as fancy as the Elantra's, and the back seat had more headroom if a bit less legroom. So it's on my "A" list, a bit lower than the Elantra. (Also the Forte comes in a spiffy hatch model.)
The Verano was on a turntable, not available to sit in, but looked quite luxurious inside. But not what I'm looking for in a small car.
The Corolla was... quite sad. Actually, the whole Toyota car display was a ghost town, except for a display of two future Prius models. (The trucks/SUVs had more traffic.) The interior had a few little improvements but still the cheap plastics and cheap-feeling HVAC controls and hard-to-adjust driving position. And the back seat is one of the worst in the class now in leg room. The relatively spartan LE on display lists at $18.8K--more than a much nicer Elantra or Forte or Sentra and about the same as a much, much nicer Cruze or Mazda3. And the FE is pretty low for the class now. Hard to understand why so many Corollas are sold now.
I also was at the Twin Cities Auto Show last weekend. One of my missions was to help two people (not in attendance) make a decision on their new car (both are ready to buy). The new Focus is right at the top. But I also found the only one on the turntable. I finally found an older gentleman with a Ford badge ("Show Manager" or something). When I expressed my surprise that I could not touch, his answer was "Wadcha expect - they aren't even out for another two weeks."
There must be Ford marketing people who would pull out all their hair if they heard that. Ford is advertising the Focus everywhere I look, plus the reviews in all the car magazines - and the people who are PAYING $10 to get to try it out are told "sorry".
Two years ago Ford had the most efficient and knowledgeable people at the show (6th in the nation). This year the people were duds.
So the question is.... When will the 2012 Focus be on dealer lots? Does anyone know?
Was there early this morning for an oil change & sat in a few cars...the CR-Z and the Insight being the most interesting of them. Hated the view out of the back of the Insight and the dash & controls were ugly to put it bluntly...like the Civic's so much more. Even the seats weren't that comfortable as what I've got in my '06 model...understand now why it's not selling in the numbers the Prius does. Can't comment on drive ability since I've driven neither. A nice try but I'd give it only a 75% grade. Honda needs to do a lot of tweaking to get this model up to par, but I know Honda can do it if they put their best guys on it!!
Loved the CR-V except for it's size...a bit bigger than I'd like in a dd but it was easier & better to ingress/egress this vehicle and things were right where they should be on the dash...and I could live with this if need be. The Element was interesting to say the least but the Odyssey was way way too big!
Am very interested to see the new 2012 Civic and how it's evolved as pictures rarely do a new model justice. The Fit is just not for me, my daughter's Versa HB has a seat that I can just slide over into, much better for my spinal issues actually! We'll just have to wait & see how the new Civic turns out and just hope that they can fix the Insight in the next few years to compete on the same ground with the Prius. Go Honda go...go back to the mojo y'all had with early '90's vehicles & it'll be a knockout!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Not much traffic here, despite all the new cars in the compact class. GM has its finest compact car ever in the Cruze. The new Focus looks like the cream of the crop (and priced like it). The swoopy Elantra adds some style to the class. The new Civic is just out. The new Impreza with a killer combination of AWD and 36 mpg is coming later in the year. Oh, yes, and there's a new Jetta. Not to mention some all-new smaller cars with compact (or larger) interiors: Versa, Accent, and Rio.
And almost all of these (except the Versa and Impreza) have some variant that offers 40+ mpg.
It's getting real hard to pick a compact these days. Not that many years ago, the choice was automatic: Corolla or Civic. Jetta if you wanted something with a European feel and didn't mind visiting the dealer more often. Protege/Mazda3 if you wanted crisp handling albeit with some bumps. Now there's all kinds of good choices. Want something sporty? How about the Mazda3 or Focus? Need something with lots of people room? The Elantra, Forte, Jetta, or Sentra might fit. Want AWD? Impreza has it. Don't have much cash? The Versa starts at just over $11k with all the safety equipment and A/C.
Personally I was leaning towards the Elantra because of its fuel economy, interior room, and style. But then the 2012 Impreza was introduced this week, with 36 mpg, higher-quality interior bits than the current car, roomier interior, and of course AWD. I have looked at the Impreza several times over the years but never bought one. That could change when it's time to replace my Sentra in a couple of years.
A reporter is interested in talking with recent buyers of the Chevy Cruze, Ford Fiesta or Ford Focus. If you care to share your comments, please email your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than Monday, May 16, 2011. Thanks, Jeannine Fallon Corporate Communications Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
MT just did an 8-way comparo of compacts: Civic, Corolla, Cruze, Elantra, Focus, Forte, Jetta, and Mazda3. Pretty much all the major compacts except Sentra and Impreza (with the Impreza's redesign coming very soon).
To no surprise, the Corolla came in last. Guess what came in first?
Backy, we know that you are Hyundai fan, so praising new Elantra is pretty normal coming from you:) Elantra is a very sharp looking car, and it has lots of standard futures that even much more expensive cars don't. Elantra does not have only one thing-it has not proved (in a long run, which is 5-10 years) that it will be reliable, free of any mechanical problems transportation, with holding its gas millage numbers overtime.
What makes me wonder is how come Elantra has 6 speed auto transmission vs. Corolla's 4 speed auto, and Corolla's fuel economy is 27.6 MPG vs. Elantra's 25.6 MPG fuel economy? These are real world numbers provided by Motortrend in their test drive!
I am a Hyundai owner, yes. But I am brand-agnostic when it comes to owning cars (see my profile). For example, current daily driver is a Sentra.
Actually, the compact I am looking forward to most of all is the 2012 Impreza. The Elantra is a nice car, but now that one must pay nearly full price for one of them, it's no longer the killer value it once was. And the idea of owning an AWD car in Minnesnowta, especially one with excellent fuel economy, is compelling to me.
I also like the Cruze although the rear seat room is much less than I'd like. It even has less room in back than the new Accent I checked out today.
But I have to disagree with your statement about long-term reliability of the Elantra. I bought a 2001 Elantra new in October 2000 and a 2004 Elantra new in March 2004. I still have the 2004 and my sister owns the 2001. Both have been extremely reliable cars... and they are two generations removed from the current Elantra. Hyundai's reliability has improved markedly in the past 10 years.
Also I have to disagree with the comment on long-term fuel economy. My 2004 just got its 60k service and is getting over 37 mpg on the highway... and it has an EPA highway rating of only 29! It was doing 34 or so before the tuneup. I think that is very good for a car that was designed in the late '90s, with a relatively ancient iron-block engine (Beta) that goes back to the mid-'90s.
The old slogan for Hyundai was, "Driving is Believing". I think that was a pretty good slogan for them.
Thanks for your reply, Backy! When I asked about fuel economy, I compared 2011 Corolla and 2011 Elantra. In MT test, Elantra got 25.6 MPG fuel economy vs. Corolla's 27.6 MPG fuel economy. I am trying to make a point here! Even though, Elantra has 6 speed Auto Transmission and "so fuel efficient" engine in Real World Driving, Corolla has better gas millage-think about that Corolla has only 4 Speed Auto transmission. Many people bash Toyota (Corolla, Camry....) for having bland cars, however, Toyota cars compare very well with any other competitor. Many "MT experts" kept saying how ride of Corolla is pretty good; however, steering is kind of numb...... Well, they said the same thing about Elantra! Hyundai has been copying Toyota, building cars that are comfortable, simple and easy to maintain. Hyundai has added one more thing-they started to implement nicer quality interiors. In comparison, Toyota Corolla S interior is not bad at all. If you do not care for plastics that are all over the cabin, the car is actually very well build. I just purchased 2011 Toyota Corolla S, and I can tell you from all my observations that this car has very good ride, easy to operate (layout is simple), easy to maintain, and it has good proportions-back seats are not cramped. The gas millage for first 4000 miles has been between 32-34 miles, and this is average gas millage with AC working all the time! Something else important-the car was $2200 off MSRP with 0% APR. In my book, these facts scream VALUE! Toyota has been selling Corolla for more than 30 years, so reliability, affordability, good ride, good fuel economy, safety ...... has been always top notch. This is what 16000-22000 people see each month in Toyota Corolla, so they buy it and most of them enjoy it. I say "most of them" because there are always people who buy cars based on name, but not on going and test drive the car first and then buy it. When you buy a car, you should test it and find out if it will suit your needs, otherwise is just waste of your time and money! I agree with you that Hyundai has made a huge progress toward building excellent cars! This fact can just make me happy because you, I and everybody else could benefit from it. Competition brings better products to us consumers:)
Toyota cars compare very well with any other competitor.
Well, it appears not in the eyes of MT.
Corolla has a smooth, quiet ride and decent fuel economy. That's about it. In other areas--interior quality, features for the dollar, interior room, power to name a few--it is not competitive. Which makes sense because it's one of the oldest cars in its class now. Only the Sentra is older, when the new Impreza comes out in a few months. So Toyota needs to play catch-up now.
BTW, last month the Corolla slipped out of the Top Ten list. But the Elantra had its best-ever sales month, topping 20k units. Reputation will only get you so far. It's a very strong compact car field now, with the new offerings from Honda, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, VW, soon Subaru... and the Mazda3, Sentra, and Forte are no slouches either.
I'm glad you like your Corolla, but it's not my cup of tea. Whenever Hertz tries to give me one, I try to get something else.
"I'm glad you like your Corolla, but it's not my cup of tea. Whenever Hertz tries to give me one, I try to get something else."
Last July, I was stuck in an insurance rental for 32 days. Some twit on her cell phone rear-ended my Mazda3 and did over $8k in damage and it took that long to repair it to my satisfaction (I refused it twice because I wasn't 100% happy with all of the repairs).
I'm am an insurance agent, so I called her insurance company and insisted that they provide me a rental the following morning. The only rental agency in my small town is Enterprise, so that's where I told them to arrange the rental. My only request was that I didn't want any Chrysler vehicle! When I arrived the next morning, they had an orange 2010 Dodage Avenger R/T waiting for me....I protested and asked for anything else, but the only other choice at that moment was a PT Cruiser!!! I'm convinced it was the evil State Farm claims rep who did this to mess with me, but I digress....
I took the Avenger on a Friday morning, drove it 12 miles home and it sat in the driveway until Monday. I drove my decrepit second car all weekend- a 1995 Grand Cherokee with 220k miles and some freaky electrical issues. But it was still better than the alternative. On Monday, I drove it the 12 miles back to Enterprise and told them to give me something else or I'd just turn it in and go 10 miles down the road where there were several agencies to choose from. I saw a Pontiac G6 in the front, but the manager bluntly told me that it smelled like vomit (no thanks).
The only other vehicle on the lot was a 2010 Toyota Corolla LE, so I took it. I wasn't embarrassed to be seen in it, unlike the Avenger, but that's one of the few complimentary things I can say about it. The fuel economy was the other bright spot, even under my heavy foot it averaged close to 30mpg overall. The positive attributes end there...
The electric power steering was horrible and the car 'wandered' at highway speeds. Driving at 75mph, it was difficult to keep it in one lane and required constant, tiny steering corrections to do so. The handling was another serious deficiency. I have never driven a compact that wallowed like a Buick and the nose plowed into turns like a parade float! I expected the generic, low-rent plastic wheel covers to fly off each time I turned into my driveway.
The interior was also full of unpleasant surprises. I noticed several wide and/or uneven gaps between trim pieces. Even the one of the two silver plastic 'blanks' on the steering wheel was crooked. Not only did they remind the driver that the car lacked cruise control and audio controls on the steering wheel, but they added insult to injury by installing one of the blanks more crooked than Whitney Houston's wig after few bong hits.
There were visible lines on some plastic pieces from where they were cast or molded during the manufacturing process. One on the glovebox door was so noticeable that I wanted to take a sanding block to it...but I refrained. The metallic-look trim on the center stack and console was starting to wear in places and the car only had 12k miles on it. In another 12k, I can't imagine how they'd look. The seat fabric looked like a cross between mid-70s GM velour and mouse fur. There were also a few squeaks and rattles, especially evident on less-than-perfect secondary roads. As a whole, from the driver's seat, everything I could see and feel screamed CHEAP! The only other car in recent times that I recall feeling so cheap and flimsy is the Chevy Aveo (which is actually a Daewoo). It didn't have nearly the interior fit and finish issues of the Corolla, but the plastics inside were the most unpleasant looking and feeling that I've ever experienced. So there is at least once vehicle I dislike more than the Corolla, but that is faint praise, to say the least.
One other issue was the 4-speed automatic. More specifically, the gearing and how it affected driveability and power delivery. If I floored it from a stop, it pulled hard and felt surprisingly quick off the line in 1st gear. But when it shifted into 2nd, it felt like someone had attached a boat anchor to the back. The Kia Forte and Soul have a very similar problem, although the 2011 Forte has a 6-speed automatic that improved acceleration and fuel economy significantly and eliminated the 2nd gear/boat anchor sensation.
The 4-speed can also be a problem when passing on a two-lane highway. I live in a semi-rural area and the closest town is about 12 miles away via two lane highway. There are four different spots where it is legal to pass (dotted/broken yellow line) and I usually don't even need to shift out of 5th gear in my '06 Mazda3 to pass old ladies driving 40 in a 55 zone. While the Corolla readily downshifted from 4th to 3rd, it made more noise than power. And it could take a few seconds for the revs to get into the power band. I learned this the hard way when I tried to pass an 18-wheeler that had slowed to 15mph on the two previous inclines and the steepest grade was still ahead. As soon as the yellow line broke, I floored it and moved into the other lane. Ten seconds later, I was still only about half way past him and I suddenly I an oncoming car was headed my way. My only choice was to stab the brake pedal and fall back in behind him. Emergency maneuvering is also scary in the Corolla, it wobbled as I swerved back into the other lane. I didn't attempt to pass again after that experience.
Initially, I was hoping that State Harm would total my Mazda3 (and it would have been cheaper for them after the repair costs, rental for 32 days and Diminished Value claim). But after a month in the Corolla, I was thrilled to have my 5yr old Zoom-Zoom back!
"BTW, last month the Corolla slipped out of the Top Ten list. But the Elantra had its best-ever sales month, topping 20k units. Reputation will only get you so far. It's a very strong compact car field now, with the new offerings from Honda, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, VW, soon Subaru... and the Mazda3, Sentra, and Forte are no slouches either."
I think the Nissan Sentra is probably the most underrated compact car on the market. While it's not the best in any area, it is adequate in most areas and even above average in a few. The interior design and quality blows the Corolla and the new Jetta off the map! It may not be Audi-quality, but it is attractive and assembly quality is excellent in the examples I've seen. It's sort of the Jan Brady of the Nissan line, with the smaller Versa and mid-size Altima getting all the praise and attention. =(
Actually there is another compact even more underrated and invisible (to consumers) than the Sentra- the Suzuki SX4. Even with a 100k powertrain warranty, it still doesn't sell anywhere near the other Japanese compacts. I think it drives quite well and ever since the redesign of the Aerio's interior for 2005, they have been making some of the best looking, highest quality and well assembled interiors to come from a Japanese brand. Of course, that doesn’t apply to the Verona, Reno or Forenza, which were rebadged Daewoo models. They were also Suzuki’s best selling cars ever (Reno and Forenza) but they also did more damage to the Suzuki brand image than any other vehicles! Hence the pathetic sales of the SX4 and far lower sales of the Kizashi, an amazing car among it’s competitors, IMO!
I think the Nissan Sentra is probably the most underrated compact car on the market. While it's not the best in any area, it is adequate in most areas and even above average in a few. The interior design and quality blows the Corolla and the new Jetta off the map __
I would put the Sentra right at the bottom with the Corolla. I don;t think the Sentra does anything particularly well. I really am not impressed with the interior, or that of the Altima either. Both are very bland. Well put together, but, very unimpressive.
It seems as if Nissan puts the lease amount of effort into the Sentra out of all their cars. The Maxima and Murano are top-knotch when it comes to materials, build quality and content. I do think the Altima and Sentra are very lacking, although sales of the Altima do not flow with my opinion.
I would expect something new from Nissan as far as the Sentra goes. It is was overdue.
While I'm not gaga over the Sentra's interior - it is bland and things like the door arm rests are too narrow for my taste - it does do one thing well and that's provide headroom. The main thing I remembered from my auto show "test sit" was that front seat or back, head room is plentiful unlike the Cruze, new Elantra, and some others.
Since I own (actually lease) a 2010 Sentra S, I'll give my 2 cents on it. I think it does some things very well:
* Great interior room for a compact, including roomy back seat. * Comfortable driving position, even on long trips. * Very good materials quality inside for an economy car--as good or better than most in class, trailing maybe only Cruze. I especially like the HVAC controls (very smooth) and the faux aluminum bits that dress things up. * Very quiet at cruise with CVT--revs hit 2000 at around 70 mph. * Great inside storage including a HUGE glovebox. * Pretty smooth ride for the class--not anywhere near as jarring as the likes of the Mazda3, more like the Elantra. * Very good fuel economy--I've done much better than the EPA averages driving with a light foot. Upper 30s on the highway, upper 20s to low 30s around-town depending on weather and how much freeway driving there is. * Good connectivity--USB input standard even on S model. * Versatile and roomy trunk--headrests fold flat for easy seat folding, plus the rear seat bottom pulls up, rare in this class. * Has side moldings to protect doors--hardly any cars have that now. * Very reliable--zero problems in first 15 months.
Minuses are: * Trip computer has poor ergonomics--have to push a button in the instrument cluster repeatedly to cycle between odometers, MTE, avg and instant FE, etc. * Electric power steering doesn't have a crisp feel. * No trunk release on keyfob. * ESC is not standard (at least not on the S, and not in 2010).
That's about it. I've been very satisfied with the car in its first 15 months. I may keep it when the lease is up... depends on what else is out there in two years.
Interesting comparo between the interior of a Sentra and Cruz. From what I have read, the interior on the Cruz looks nice, but, materials and build quality are not so great. I have not been in one myself.... I would say the new Elantra and Focus have the best combination of build quality / materials available today. The new Focus is put together really, really well. The Mazda3 is well put together as well, and in the s model, there are even better materials used, however, it could use a refresh. We will see if much attention was paid to it when we get the refreshed 2012.
I would not call the ride of the Mazda3 "jarring"...that's a bit of a stretch, but, to each their own...
Nissan builds a good car, so the fact that you have had no issues is not surprising.
I have driven the current gen Sentra many times, and I do feel that other manufacturers offer more and do better in other areas. Just my .02...
With company's like Hyundai, Ford and even Chevy stepping up their game in this segment, it is time that Nissan does as well. The Sentra is overdue...
Now, if I had my wish, I would buy a car that looks like the Elantra and drives like a Mazda3!! I just can't get used to the look of the Mazda...
I've been in a few Cruze's and I think the material quality is very good, especially considering the price point. The Elantra is also good, certainly has more "style" than the Sentra but quality not significantly better. The Focus is "uneven"--some really nice bits, but other parts seem cheap to me. For example, the HVAC knobs are not nearly as smooth as on the Sentra. The Sentra has pretty nice quality all around. Also the controls are much easier to use than in either the Focus or Elantra. The Mazda3 has a pretty nice interior but it's dour (in black anyway) has some cheap pieces. Back seat much tighter than the Sentra also.
"Jarring" is pretty accurate I think. Or maybe "nervous". Definitely a great handler, but the trade-off with ride quality isn't worth it to me. I've had several Mazda3 rentals over the past few months, and they're fine as long as the roads are smooth. Which I haven't experienced much of.
The perfect small car to me would be one that looks like (and has the interior room of) the Elantra, handling of the Mazda3, and ride of the Cruze. And priced like a Versa, or Accent.
The Sentra is due for a redesign, but I am surprised how well it has held up over the years. It does need better fuel economy (has to hit that magical 40 mpg EPA number now), and the steering needs tightening up. With that and a few other little tweaks (and I suppose a new wrapper, just because), I think it will be fully competitive in the class, even against the new designs.
With 2012 being the 6th model year of the current Sentra, is 2013 the MY for an all-new Sentra?
My mother owns a 2005 Sentra and it's a great "around town" car for her. I've driven it many times and with only 41,000 miles on the clock, it's got several good years left in it.
I scratched my head over the 2005 Sentra and that whole generation because while it had some plusses, including fuel economy and a pretty nice interior, the back seat was REALLY tight--moreso than even the prior generation. Nissan rectified that in the current design.
I've leased 3 Sentras--a 1992 2-door, a 1997 4-door (both sticks), and my current 2010. They were all solid, reliable little cars. I sold my 1997 to my sister and she drove it for many more years after my lease was up. What's kind of amazing, though, is that my 1997 GXE, which was a pretty basic car by today's standards with a stick, two airbags, no ABS, steel wheels, and power windows/locks/mirrors/cruise, listed for about $16k. That is about what a comparable compact lists for today, but the modern car has a lot more safety features, and probably more power (vs. 115 hp) with better fuel economy.
"MT just did an 8-way comparo of compacts: Civic, Corolla, Cruze, Elantra, Focus, Forte, Jetta, and Mazda3. Pretty much all the major compacts except Sentra and Impreza (with the Impreza's redesign coming very soon).
To no surprise, the Corolla came in last. Guess what came in first?"
I finally had a chance to go back and read the entire test on the MT website and I was surprised by the ranking of several models, but the Corolla and Elantra seem appropriately placed, IMO. Here are the ones that disappointed, concerned, shocked and/or irritated me- #7- KIA Forte EX- This one is a disappointment. KIA upgraded the outdated 4-speed automatic to a new 6-speed automatic with the promise of improved acceleration and better fuel economy. The 0-60 time has been reduced from 10.3 to 9.2 seconds, which is a solid improvement. But the overall fuel economy of 23.9mpg is unacceptable on a car with EPA ratings of 26/36. The overall cheap look of the interior and seats that aren't all that comfy for the long haul were problems I had noted when I test drove a 2011 Forte SX 5-door. Now that Hyundai has reinvented its lineup, they need to give this model some of their 'magic'- I still love the exterior design, but the rest needs some work...
#5- Ford Focus Titanium- An overly-complicated high-tech interior design distracts from what is a fundamentally GREAT car in almost every other area. That's what I've been saying from the beginnings and the guys at MT seem to agree. Drive a Focus SE 5-speed manual and you'll see and feel how good this car can really be! #4- VW Jetta TDI- MT requested a 2.5L model, VW still sent a TDI- it shouldn't have been allowed to participate, IMO.
#3- Mazda 3 i Touring- Where is the logic in putting the lower-level 'i' model against top trim levels of the Cruze, Focus, Civic and Elantra??? It was the least expensive test by a large margin- the second least expensive Corolla was $824 more and the highest priced Cruze was $4,595 more! Would the additional features and/or options on a Mazda3 s Sport or Grand Touring outweigh the lower fuel economy from the 2.5L engine? The i Touring model tested didn't even include the available Moonroof/6CD/Bose Package which only adds $1395 to the price. The total would have been very close to the Forte EX and Civic EX's sticker prices and still well below the Cruze, Focus, VW and Elantra! At that price, it would've included a Power Moonroof, 10-speaker, 265-watt Bose Centerpoint Surround Sound audio system and In-dash 6-CD changer. #2- Civic EX- I honestly can't tell any difference at first glance, and I thought the previous model was HIDEOUS, so this new one is hardly a beauty queen! Honda has become lazy, or so it seems....even if they do get the best MPG of all.
It's interesting to see the results form a similar, but smaller (only five cars), comparison in the April 2011 issue of Car and Driver. Here's how they ranked the five they included-
5- VW Jetta SEL 4- Chevy Cruze LT 3- Hyundai Elantra Limited 2- Mazda3 s Sport 4-door 1- Ford Focus SEL 4-door
Either way, the Elantra and Mazda3 landed in the top three of each list...so they're the two I'd be considering, if I was actually in the market for a new car right now.
When Mazda's new SKYACTIV 40mpg highway 2.0L hits the roads later this fall, I may be one of the first in line....
I guess only Mazda USA can say why they sent a Touring into the MT comparo. Maybe C/D was using the only S available at the same time.
The test results were predictable. C/D puts sharp handling above everything else. The car could knock your fillings out, but if it handled as if on rails it would place very high if not first. The MT test seemingly tried to look at the cars as a "typical" compact car buyer would. So they placed high value on attributes like rear seat room, ride quality, and interior design, vs. handling (although handling was a factor also).
Considering C/D didn't have a Civic to test and the two Jettas were like two different cars, the results were pretty close. Take those two things into account (i.e. discount the TDI factor), and the Focus, Elantra, and Mazda3 were in the top 3 of each list, just a different order. What mystifies me is how low the Cruze placed in each test. C/D anointed it "best in class" in their initial road test. Then they rank it 4th out of 5. And it was well down on MT's list also, despite having one of the nicest interiors, good ride/handling balance, and exceptional safety features. But a tight rear seat and so-so fuel economy. But if FE is most important, a Cruze buyer would get the Eco.
I'd love to see some mag test all the "40 mpg" cars out there, but test with an emphasis on driving for best fuel economy... not best 0-60 times.
I kind of get the sense that they are splitting hairs with some of the comparisons. I also think Backy's point about C&D likes handling, MT likes a different balance, R&T something different still, and CR something yet different.
What I find is that once you get to a certain level of performance and reliability, all the cars are essentially similar. At this point, between the vehicles compared in the article, I don't know that there is a bad choice or a car that "sucks." What I do think is there are cars that emphasize different atributes more than others. If your main measure is rear seat leg room, you would pick a different vehicle than if your emphasis was on handling prowess. Similarly, fuel economy might be a primary purchase reason, while for others, power or audio system quality might drive the purchase.
Now that I finally got a chance to drive a few of the vehicles, I agree that the Focus SE hatch/5spd manual is more my thing than the Titanium, but if you look at the content of the Titanium, it compares favorably to vehicles like the A3. I would like the Mazda3 (There are a few 1st generation Mazda3s in the family) but can't get past the smiley face.
I also think its so odd to me that after growing up in Southern California and seeing most Hondas as aspirational vehicles I'd want to own, the Civic really does nothing for me, nor the new Accord, for that matter. The Sentra (especially the SE-R) was also very big in the So Cal compact scene. It seems to have taken a different path (not bad, just different).
Like I said though, the choice is driven by individual wants and needs.
A reporter is hoping to talk with the owner of a new VW Jetta. Please email pr@edmunds.com by Monday, June 20, 2011 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience with the car so far.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name. 2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h) Review your vehicle
What I find is that once you get to a certain level of performance and reliability, all the cars are essentially similar.
I have to disagree. Just in this group of cars, there are major differences in some attributes important to many buyers. For example:
* Sharp handling: Mazda3, with Focus and Civic pretty good also. But there's a major difference in how those cars handle compared to others e.g. Corolla, Elantra, and Sentra.
* Performance: Big difference in acceleration in the class, since some cars have ~135 hp and others have 160-170 hp, with "sport" versions with even more power.
* Interior room: Huge range there, especially in rear seat room. Some cars such as Jetta and Elantra have very roomy rear seats for the class; others such as Corolla, Cruze, Focus, and Mazda3 have tight rear seats.
* Luxury features: Some cars do well just to offer a moonroof. Some such as the Corolla don't even offer leather, let alone other high-end features becoming increasingly common on cars like the Focus, Mazda3, and Cruze.
* Fuel economy: Huge range there. Some compacts like the Jetta 2.5 struggle to hit 30 mpg highway EPA, while others are over 40 mpg.
Those are just a few examples of the wide range of offerings in the compact class. Which is a good thing... easier for just about everyone to find something they like.
"I also think its so odd to me that after growing up in Southern California and seeing most Hondas as aspirational vehicles I'd want to own, the Civic really does nothing for me, nor the new Accord, for that matter."
I am from one of those "Honda families". I have two cousins with 25+ years as Honda mechanics, my brother-in-law has worked in a Honda/Acura body shop for 21 years and my one of my uncles worked at another Honda dealership's body shop for 28 years. Back in 1996, for about four months, I even sold Hondas at the dealership where my cousins and bro-in-law work. Despite outselling all but two long-term salesmen during that time and making a lot of $$$, discovered that I have an affliction that is fatal for a sales person- a conscience!
But I drove a Honda from the day I got my license in 1991 (when I got my sister's hand-me-down '85 CRX Si) followed by six others over the next 14 years. I had an '89 Accord LXi 4-door, '90 Acura Legend L 4-door, '92 Accord EX 4-door, '94 Civic EX 2-door, '96 Accord EX 4-door and '99 Accord EX 4-door- all 5-speed manuals, too! It was never a question of which car to buy, but which Honda to buy!? My sister followed much the same pattern as me with a few Preludes thrown in. We even bought '96 Accords on the same day, in the same color- both were EX 4-door 5-speeds in Heather Mist Metallic (silvery gold). Mine was just the stock EX, but she managed to get a set of the EX Coupe wheels and she added the rear spoiler, sunroof deflector, had the windows tinted and even the hideously tacky 'gold' emblem package. Even though they started out as identical twins, you could definitely tell them apart after she finished 'accessorizing'.
When I totaled my '99 Accord in December 2005, I went to the Honda dealer the following morning to pick out my next one. That's when I saw the 2006 Civic for the first time and I test drove an EX 4-door with manual and an automatic. I couldn't believe how much I hated it- from the wonky exterior design (a cross between a doorstop and a suppository) and the two-tier digital/analog dash felt anything but Honda-like. I couldn't even find a color combo that I would consider if I did entertain the thought of buying one, which I didn't.
I genuinely liked the 2006 Accord, but my budget was around $18k and definitely not over $19k. The EX 4-door I wanted was over $23k and the LX was too plain-looking and still over $20k. I was confused and, for the first time, realized that my next car wasn't going to be a Honda. I ended up getting a 2006 Mazda3 s 5-door and I'm still happy with it 5.5yrs and 82k miles later! Some of my family considered it treason, at least that's how they acted. But over the last five years, I've watched almost every one of them do the same thing....
The 2008 Accord was the final sign to me that my days as a Honda owner were over. They no longer had anything I'd want to drive, much less own. The 'magic' that made my '85 CRX, '89 Accord and '90 Legend feel so unique and made them so enjoyable to drive was lost years ago. My '99 Accord still had the 'feel', but felt more polished and not as sporty as the earlier model.
I was hoping for a 2012 Civic that was slighlty less hideous, but they changed it so liittle that it would hardly seem like a 'refresh' much less a real 'redesign'. They also carried over the powertain which was no more than adequate in the old car. One of the car mags commented that they followed the Corolla's lead in terms of ride and handling. So it is now freaky looking and morre boring than ever before...
I'd love to see some mag test all the "40 mpg" cars out there, but test with an emphasis on driving for best fuel economy... not best 0-60 times
How about a blend of performance and economy? Fuel economy is only half the equation. If we were only concerned with fuel economy, we would be seeing 100hp engines in this class that get 50 mpg.
Manufacturers seem to be seeing who can get the best FE and best performance in one package.
I will agree, I would really like to see a battle of the 40mpg club. I would like to see who builds the best all around car assessing economy and performance.
I find it a bit weird that no one has driven a Mazda3 SKYACTIV just yet. The car is due here in the fall, perhaps as early as September. Maybe Mazda has been keeping the lid on that in combination with the disaster in Japan. Even us dealers have no more information than is currently available to the general public.
I think the current crop of compacts DO offer a blend of performance and economy. How many of the current cars offer 140 hp+, which a few years ago was typical for a V6 mid-sized car? Let's see... Civic, Elantra, Focus, Forte, Impreza, Mazda3, Sentra, SX4 all offer at least 140 hp in their base models, and the Jetta offers a 170 hp gas engine or 140 hp TDI in all but the base trim. Only the Corolla and Cruze are below 140 hp, and they're in the 130s.
The reason I posed the "what if?" about a test focusing on fuel economy is that the car mags usually thrash the cars they test, and get far below the EPA specs in fuel economy. I just thought it would be interesting to have a test where the cars are driven more like normal people drive them, or even with some basic techniques (not hypermiling) to get maximum fuel economy, like using a light foot on the gas, sticking to speed limits, coasting up to lights when appropriate etc.
P.S. There is a near-100 hp engine in this class, in the base Jetta: 115 hp. But it doesn't get anything close to 50 mpg. I don't think 100 hp engines are the magic answer to better fuel economy, except maybe in very small cars. If we were interested in maximum fuel economy, we'd have small, light cars with 6-speed sticks and diesel engines. Guess how many of THOSE would sell in the USA? :P
Backy, I think you are making a point that defines what I was trying to say. Any of these vehicles is going to get you to work and back, safely and reliably. I also think that they would be fine for a small family. Fuel economy, for the most part, seems to be within 10% of each other. It comes down to what is important to the individual. Any of these will do just about anything one *needs* them to do, but some people will *want* one more than another.
Check out cars.com on Monday. They have been doing a comparison test of some compacts and I think they focused somewhat on real world MPG. Don't know if it will fit your criteria but it's worth a look.
That's kinda the idea, but it wasn't clear that the drivers were doing anything special to get highest possible fuel economy out of the cars. But it looked like a more realistic test than what the auto mags usually do--real-world stop-and-go traffic, suburban traffic, and freeway traffic. Also they were looking at the cars overall vs. focusing on just one attribute such as handling or acceleration.
I'm amazed that these "tests" rely on a vehicles trip computer to report mileage. I realize these handy devices are far more accurate than they were in the past, but I prefer filling the fuel tank to a known level, driving XXX number of miles and re-filling to the previous known level then calculating the actual mileage achieved.
Another note of interest was the statement in the 2012 Focus and Civic have been available since last September........."The combined average transaction price — including all options, discounts, rebates and shipping, but not taxes and license fees — for Elantras, Civics, Fortes, Focuses and Cruzes that dealers sold in May was $19,843, up about $1,500 just since September, the first month that all five shootout cars were available." After reading that line I tossed this article aside. Trip computer for fuel economy and clueless as to availability? Come on guys. Read more here if you missed this one:
Comments
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I sat in the new Elantra at the LA Auto show, and IMHO the interior was noticeably cheaper than any premium cars. OK for its class, but the OP wanted a loaded nice interior.
The Mazda3 and the Corolla are about 69 inches wide.
Passenger volume is often misleading. Other than the Prius which has a lot of room in the backseat I don't think anyone would consider the passenger room midsize regardless of what the EPA says. I have sat in the back seats of the pevious Elantra, Civic, Mazda 3, Cruze and Corolla and with the exception of the 3 being slightly smaller there was no real difference in any of them.
The Prius has a lot of LEG room in the back, but width is compact-style. Best small car for leg room in back IMO is the Versa, also Elantra Touring. Both have limo-like leg room in back.
This is Justin from Ford Customer Service. Two vehicles that we offer that I feel will meet your needs are the 2011 Fiesta or 2012 Focus. The 2011 Fiesta starts out at only $13,320 and has an outstanding fuel economy of up to 29 mpg city and 40 mpg hwy. The Focus will be available during this spring and starts out at $16, 995. Some features across both vehicles that may be appealing to you are: Voice-activated SYNC, Intelligent Access with Push-Button Start, Ambient Lighting, and heated seats. An exclusive technology that is only available in the 2012 Focus is MyFord Touch. Check out this newly developed feature at: www.Ford.com/Technology/Sync/MyFordTouch. Be sure to navigate throughout the website to find out the Fiesta too!
If you have any other questions please feel free to contact our Marketing Program Headquarters at 1-800-334-4375.
Thank you,
Justin
Ford Customer Service Division
I was all ready too pick up my new 2011 Fiesta SES today but I am not. I was dealing with 2 local Ford dealers and when I wrote the dealer who I did not buy from to thank them for their time the salseman replied with a very nasty email. I then told him that I was sorry but I had to pick because today is the last day for some rebates and he sent me another nasty email. I was trading in my last Toyota and would of had 3 Fords in my driveway but for now I am sticking with my Toyota. I have since sent his emails to the owner of the dealership and to Ford corporate. It's sad to see Ford bust their butt designing and building cool cars just to see the dealerships stick with their 1970s attitude
It shares 3 things with the Fiesta: wheel bearings, strut tower and similar platform design. In all reality, the Fiesta and Mazda2 are very very different.
Time will tell what she ends up with, but it'll last us for many miles down the road. We'll start test driving after tax season is over for sure.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Hi, this is Justin with Ford Customer Service. I am sorry to hear that you have had a negative experience with a dealership. We are very interested in understanding what you experienced and trying to assist. Please contact our Customer Relationship Center at 800-392-3673 at a time that is convenient to you. Unfortunately, we are unable to address your concern on a public forum.
Kind regards,
Justin
Ford Customer Service Division
US/Canadian content for other compacts ranges from a low of 1% (for the Elantra, assembled in Alabama) to 70% for the Civic. Most compact sedans built in NA seem to have pretty low (< 50%) US/Canadian content, except for Focus, Civic, and Sonic (65%). And the upcoming Verano is estimated to have 75% US/Canadian content--so that will be a "domestic" compact when it rolls out.
Chevy had several Cruzes in their large display. To their credit, they even had a stripped LS, at $17k MSRP. And I really, really liked that stripped LS. I think it's a great value. It has a high-quality interior--maybe best in class; nice two-tone treatment on the seats and dash; all the safety equipment one could hope for; a very smooth short-throw 6-speed with a knob that would look OK in a car twice the price; 8-way adjustable drivers seat and passenger seat; power windows and locks with remote locking; decent-looking wheel covers; and good FE ratings (26/36 I think). And I know dealers in my area put big discounts on LSes. However, I don't see a Cruze LS in my garage in the future. Chevy made the bone-headed decision to not offer cruise on the Cruze LS, not even as an option. Since I do make long trips on occasion, I really need cruise. I could even live with the manual mirrors. In order to get cruise, I'd have to spend nearly $20k list on a 1LT with an options package (and spare tire and license plate bracket too). Very disappointing.
So on to the Elantra. I'd sat in the new Elantra a couple of times before, so this was a refresher. I still like the Elantra a lot, as it has a great combo of high FE, big interior (great leg room in back), sharp styling, and a good price for the feature content. And cruise is easy to get. :P So it's on my "A" list, in GLS with AT form (maybe Preferred package also; those alloys are pretty sharp).
The biggest surprise in this class was the Jetta. I was prepared to not like it very much, based on what I had read about it. This was the first time I'd seen it, and sat in it. And it's a pretty darn nice small car, based on looking and sitting. First, it doesn't look bad at all in person. Conservative, yes, but the rear evokes Audi and the lines are clean and honest. Second, the back seat leg room is fantastic--even better than the Elantra's. And the seat cushion is high and there's good head room also. I was very comfortable in back, and in the driver's seat. VW hasn't lost its touch there, even though there's few adjustments. The main difference between the new Jetta's interior and old Jetta (and current Golf) is the new Jetta has hard plastics throughout. But they are decent quality plastics. The doors close with a solid thunk. The main problem I see with the Jetta is, in order to get competitive FE, and a low price, you need to go with the 2.0S with 115 hp. It might be a best fit for someone who wants the back seat leg room of a midsized car but smaller outside. But then, the Elantra fits that bill also--not as much head room in back as the Jetta though.
I checked the Forte also and didn't like it quite as much as the Elantra, but noticed that one can get the EX with alloys and a moonroof for just a bit more than the Elantra GLS with Preferred package. And the dash is fine, if not as fancy as the Elantra's, and the back seat had more headroom if a bit less legroom. So it's on my "A" list, a bit lower than the Elantra. (Also the Forte comes in a spiffy hatch model.)
The Verano was on a turntable, not available to sit in, but looked quite luxurious inside. But not what I'm looking for in a small car.
The Corolla was... quite sad. Actually, the whole Toyota car display was a ghost town, except for a display of two future Prius models. (The trucks/SUVs had more traffic.) The interior had a few little improvements but still the cheap plastics and cheap-feeling HVAC controls and hard-to-adjust driving position. And the back seat is one of the worst in the class now in leg room. The relatively spartan LE on display lists at $18.8K--more than a much nicer Elantra or Forte or Sentra and about the same as a much, much nicer Cruze or Mazda3. And the FE is pretty low for the class now. Hard to understand why so many Corollas are sold now.
There must be Ford marketing people who would pull out all their hair if they heard that. Ford is advertising the Focus everywhere I look, plus the reviews in all the car magazines - and the people who are PAYING $10 to get to try it out are told "sorry".
Two years ago Ford had the most efficient and knowledgeable people at the show (6th in the nation). This year the people were duds.
So the question is.... When will the 2012 Focus be on dealer lots? Does anyone know?
Loved the CR-V except for it's size...a bit bigger than I'd like in a dd but it was easier & better to ingress/egress this vehicle and things were right where they should be on the dash...and I could live with this if need be. The Element was interesting to say the least but the Odyssey was way way too big!
Am very interested to see the new 2012 Civic and how it's evolved as pictures rarely do a new model justice. The Fit is just not for me, my daughter's Versa HB has a seat that I can just slide over into, much better for my spinal issues actually! We'll just have to wait & see how the new Civic turns out and just hope that they can fix the Insight in the next few years to compete on the same ground with the Prius. Go Honda go...go back to the mojo y'all had with early '90's vehicles & it'll be a knockout!
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
And almost all of these (except the Versa and Impreza) have some variant that offers 40+ mpg.
It's getting real hard to pick a compact these days. Not that many years ago, the choice was automatic: Corolla or Civic. Jetta if you wanted something with a European feel and didn't mind visiting the dealer more often. Protege/Mazda3 if you wanted crisp handling albeit with some bumps. Now there's all kinds of good choices. Want something sporty? How about the Mazda3 or Focus? Need something with lots of people room? The Elantra, Forte, Jetta, or Sentra might fit. Want AWD? Impreza has it. Don't have much cash? The Versa starts at just over $11k with all the safety equipment and A/C.
Personally I was leaning towards the Elantra because of its fuel economy, interior room, and style. But then the 2012 Impreza was introduced this week, with 36 mpg, higher-quality interior bits than the current car, roomier interior, and of course AWD. I have looked at the Impreza several times over the years but never bought one. That could change when it's time to replace my Sentra in a couple of years.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
To no surprise, the Corolla came in last. Guess what came in first?
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1107_best_selling_compact_sedan_compa- rison/index.html
Elantra is a very sharp looking car, and it has lots of standard futures that even much more expensive cars don't.
Elantra does not have only one thing-it has not proved (in a long run, which is 5-10 years) that it will be reliable, free of any mechanical problems transportation, with holding its gas millage numbers overtime.
What makes me wonder is how come Elantra has 6 speed auto transmission vs. Corolla's 4 speed auto, and Corolla's fuel economy is 27.6 MPG vs. Elantra's 25.6 MPG fuel economy? These are real world numbers provided by Motortrend in their test drive!
Actually, the compact I am looking forward to most of all is the 2012 Impreza. The Elantra is a nice car, but now that one must pay nearly full price for one of them, it's no longer the killer value it once was. And the idea of owning an AWD car in Minnesnowta, especially one with excellent fuel economy, is compelling to me.
I also like the Cruze although the rear seat room is much less than I'd like. It even has less room in back than the new Accent I checked out today.
But I have to disagree with your statement about long-term reliability of the Elantra. I bought a 2001 Elantra new in October 2000 and a 2004 Elantra new in March 2004. I still have the 2004 and my sister owns the 2001. Both have been extremely reliable cars... and they are two generations removed from the current Elantra. Hyundai's reliability has improved markedly in the past 10 years.
Also I have to disagree with the comment on long-term fuel economy. My 2004 just got its 60k service and is getting over 37 mpg on the highway... and it has an EPA highway rating of only 29! It was doing 34 or so before the tuneup. I think that is very good for a car that was designed in the late '90s, with a relatively ancient iron-block engine (Beta) that goes back to the mid-'90s.
The old slogan for Hyundai was, "Driving is Believing". I think that was a pretty good slogan for them.
When I asked about fuel economy, I compared 2011 Corolla and 2011 Elantra.
In MT test, Elantra got 25.6 MPG fuel economy vs. Corolla's 27.6 MPG fuel economy. I am trying to make a point here! Even though, Elantra has 6 speed Auto Transmission and "so fuel efficient" engine in Real World Driving, Corolla has better gas millage-think about that Corolla has only 4 Speed Auto transmission.
Many people bash Toyota (Corolla, Camry....) for having bland cars, however, Toyota cars compare very well with any other competitor.
Many "MT experts" kept saying how ride of Corolla is pretty good; however, steering is kind of numb...... Well, they said the same thing about Elantra! Hyundai has been copying Toyota, building cars that are comfortable, simple and easy to maintain. Hyundai has added one more thing-they started to implement nicer quality interiors.
In comparison, Toyota Corolla S interior is not bad at all. If you do not care for plastics that are all over the cabin, the car is actually very well build.
I just purchased 2011 Toyota Corolla S, and I can tell you from all my observations that this car has very good ride, easy to operate (layout is simple), easy to maintain, and it has good proportions-back seats are not cramped. The gas millage for first 4000 miles has been between 32-34 miles, and this is average gas millage with AC working all the time!
Something else important-the car was $2200 off MSRP with 0% APR.
In my book, these facts scream VALUE!
Toyota has been selling Corolla for more than 30 years, so reliability, affordability, good ride, good fuel economy, safety ...... has been always top notch. This is what 16000-22000 people see each month in Toyota Corolla, so they buy it and most of them enjoy it. I say "most of them" because there are always people who buy cars based on name, but not on going and test drive the car first and then buy it. When you buy a car, you should test it and find out if it will suit your needs, otherwise is just waste of your time and money!
I agree with you that Hyundai has made a huge progress toward building excellent cars! This fact can just make me happy because you, I and everybody else could benefit from it. Competition brings better products to us consumers:)
Well, it appears not in the eyes of MT.
Corolla has a smooth, quiet ride and decent fuel economy. That's about it. In other areas--interior quality, features for the dollar, interior room, power to name a few--it is not competitive. Which makes sense because it's one of the oldest cars in its class now. Only the Sentra is older, when the new Impreza comes out in a few months. So Toyota needs to play catch-up now.
BTW, last month the Corolla slipped out of the Top Ten list. But the Elantra had its best-ever sales month, topping 20k units. Reputation will only get you so far. It's a very strong compact car field now, with the new offerings from Honda, Ford, Chevy, Hyundai, VW, soon Subaru... and the Mazda3, Sentra, and Forte are no slouches either.
I'm glad you like your Corolla, but it's not my cup of tea. Whenever Hertz tries to give me one, I try to get something else.
Last July, I was stuck in an insurance rental for 32 days. Some twit on her cell phone rear-ended my Mazda3 and did over $8k in damage and it took that long to repair it to my satisfaction (I refused it twice because I wasn't 100% happy with all of the repairs).
I'm am an insurance agent, so I called her insurance company and insisted that they provide me a rental the following morning. The only rental agency in my small town is Enterprise, so that's where I told them to arrange the rental. My only request was that I didn't want any Chrysler vehicle! When I arrived the next morning, they had an orange 2010 Dodage Avenger R/T waiting for me....I protested and asked for anything else, but the only other choice at that moment was a PT Cruiser!!! I'm convinced it was the evil State Farm claims rep who did this to mess with me, but I digress....
I took the Avenger on a Friday morning, drove it 12 miles home and it sat in the driveway until Monday. I drove my decrepit second car all weekend- a 1995 Grand Cherokee with 220k miles and some freaky electrical issues. But it was still better than the alternative. On Monday, I drove it the 12 miles back to Enterprise and told them to give me something else or I'd just turn it in and go 10 miles down the road where there were several agencies to choose from. I saw a Pontiac G6 in the front, but the manager bluntly told me that it smelled like vomit (no thanks).
The only other vehicle on the lot was a 2010 Toyota Corolla LE, so I took it. I wasn't embarrassed to be seen in it, unlike the Avenger, but that's one of the few complimentary things I can say about it. The fuel economy was the other bright spot, even under my heavy foot it averaged close to 30mpg overall. The positive attributes end there...
The electric power steering was horrible and the car 'wandered' at highway speeds. Driving at 75mph, it was difficult to keep it in one lane and required constant, tiny steering corrections to do so. The handling was another serious deficiency. I have never driven a compact that wallowed like a Buick and the nose plowed into turns like a parade float! I expected the generic, low-rent plastic wheel covers to fly off each time I turned into my driveway.
The interior was also full of unpleasant surprises. I noticed several wide and/or uneven gaps between trim pieces. Even the one of the two silver plastic 'blanks' on the steering wheel was crooked. Not only did they remind the driver that the car lacked cruise control and audio controls on the steering wheel, but they added insult to injury by installing one of the blanks more crooked than Whitney Houston's wig after few bong hits.
There were visible lines on some plastic pieces from where they were cast or molded during the manufacturing process. One on the glovebox door was so noticeable that I wanted to take a sanding block to it...but I refrained. The metallic-look trim on the center stack and console was starting to wear in places and the car only had 12k miles on it. In another 12k, I can't imagine how they'd look. The seat fabric looked like a cross between mid-70s GM velour and mouse fur. There were also a few squeaks and rattles, especially evident on less-than-perfect secondary roads. As a whole, from the driver's seat, everything I could see and feel screamed CHEAP! The only other car in recent times that I recall feeling so cheap and flimsy is the Chevy Aveo (which is actually a Daewoo). It didn't have nearly the interior fit and finish issues of the Corolla, but the plastics inside were the most unpleasant looking and feeling that I've ever experienced. So there is at least once vehicle I dislike more than the Corolla, but that is faint praise, to say the least.
One other issue was the 4-speed automatic. More specifically, the gearing and how it affected driveability and power delivery. If I floored it from a stop, it pulled hard and felt surprisingly quick off the line in 1st gear. But when it shifted into 2nd, it felt like someone had attached a boat anchor to the back. The Kia Forte and Soul have a very similar problem, although the 2011 Forte has a 6-speed automatic that improved acceleration and fuel economy significantly and eliminated the 2nd gear/boat anchor sensation.
The 4-speed can also be a problem when passing on a two-lane highway. I live in a semi-rural area and the closest town is about 12 miles away via two lane highway. There are four different spots where it is legal to pass (dotted/broken yellow line) and I usually don't even need to shift out of 5th gear in my '06 Mazda3 to pass old ladies driving 40 in a 55 zone. While the Corolla readily downshifted from 4th to 3rd, it made more noise than power. And it could take a few seconds for the revs to get into the power band. I learned this the hard way when I tried to pass an 18-wheeler that had slowed to 15mph on the two previous inclines and the steepest grade was still ahead. As soon as the yellow line broke, I floored it and moved into the other lane. Ten seconds later, I was still only about half way past him and I suddenly I an oncoming car was headed my way. My only choice was to stab the brake pedal and fall back in behind him. Emergency maneuvering is also scary in the Corolla, it wobbled as I swerved back into the other lane. I didn't attempt to pass again after that experience.
Initially, I was hoping that State Harm would total my Mazda3 (and it would have been cheaper for them after the repair costs, rental for 32 days and Diminished Value claim). But after a month in the Corolla, I was thrilled to have my 5yr old Zoom-Zoom back!
I think the Nissan Sentra is probably the most underrated compact car on the market. While it's not the best in any area, it is adequate in most areas and even above average in a few. The interior design and quality blows the Corolla and the new Jetta off the map! It may not be Audi-quality, but it is attractive and assembly quality is excellent in the examples I've seen. It's sort of the Jan Brady of the Nissan line, with the smaller Versa and mid-size Altima getting all the praise and attention. =(
Actually there is another compact even more underrated and invisible (to consumers) than the Sentra- the Suzuki SX4. Even with a 100k powertrain warranty, it still doesn't sell anywhere near the other Japanese compacts. I think it drives quite well and ever since the redesign of the Aerio's interior for 2005, they have been making some of the best looking, highest quality and well assembled interiors to come from a Japanese brand. Of course, that doesn’t apply to the Verona, Reno or Forenza, which were rebadged Daewoo models. They were also Suzuki’s best selling cars ever (Reno and Forenza) but they also did more damage to the Suzuki brand image than any other vehicles! Hence the pathetic sales of the SX4 and far lower sales of the Kizashi, an amazing car among it’s competitors, IMO!
__
I would put the Sentra right at the bottom with the Corolla. I don;t think the Sentra does anything particularly well. I really am not impressed with the interior, or that of the Altima either. Both are very bland. Well put together, but, very unimpressive.
It seems as if Nissan puts the lease amount of effort into the Sentra out of all their cars. The Maxima and Murano are top-knotch when it comes to materials, build quality and content. I do think the Altima and Sentra are very lacking, although sales of the Altima do not flow with my opinion.
I would expect something new from Nissan as far as the Sentra goes. It is was overdue.
My concerns are usually leg room. I'm rather tall at 6'4".
* Great interior room for a compact, including roomy back seat.
* Comfortable driving position, even on long trips.
* Very good materials quality inside for an economy car--as good or better than most in class, trailing maybe only Cruze. I especially like the HVAC controls (very smooth) and the faux aluminum bits that dress things up.
* Very quiet at cruise with CVT--revs hit 2000 at around 70 mph.
* Great inside storage including a HUGE glovebox.
* Pretty smooth ride for the class--not anywhere near as jarring as the likes of the Mazda3, more like the Elantra.
* Very good fuel economy--I've done much better than the EPA averages driving with a light foot. Upper 30s on the highway, upper 20s to low 30s around-town depending on weather and how much freeway driving there is.
* Good connectivity--USB input standard even on S model.
* Versatile and roomy trunk--headrests fold flat for easy seat folding, plus the rear seat bottom pulls up, rare in this class.
* Has side moldings to protect doors--hardly any cars have that now.
* Very reliable--zero problems in first 15 months.
Minuses are:
* Trip computer has poor ergonomics--have to push a button in the instrument cluster repeatedly to cycle between odometers, MTE, avg and instant FE, etc.
* Electric power steering doesn't have a crisp feel.
* No trunk release on keyfob.
* ESC is not standard (at least not on the S, and not in 2010).
That's about it. I've been very satisfied with the car in its first 15 months. I may keep it when the lease is up... depends on what else is out there in two years.
I would not call the ride of the Mazda3 "jarring"...that's a bit of a stretch, but, to each their own...
Nissan builds a good car, so the fact that you have had no issues is not surprising.
I have driven the current gen Sentra many times, and I do feel that other manufacturers offer more and do better in other areas. Just my .02...
With company's like Hyundai, Ford and even Chevy stepping up their game in this segment, it is time that Nissan does as well. The Sentra is overdue...
Now, if I had my wish, I would buy a car that looks like the Elantra and drives like a Mazda3!! I just can't get used to the look of the Mazda...
"Jarring" is pretty accurate I think. Or maybe "nervous". Definitely a great handler, but the trade-off with ride quality isn't worth it to me. I've had several Mazda3 rentals over the past few months, and they're fine as long as the roads are smooth. Which I haven't experienced much of.
The perfect small car to me would be one that looks like (and has the interior room of) the Elantra, handling of the Mazda3, and ride of the Cruze. And priced like a Versa, or Accent.
The Sentra is due for a redesign, but I am surprised how well it has held up over the years. It does need better fuel economy (has to hit that magical 40 mpg EPA number now), and the steering needs tightening up. With that and a few other little tweaks (and I suppose a new wrapper, just because), I think it will be fully competitive in the class, even against the new designs.
My mother owns a 2005 Sentra and it's a great "around town" car for her. I've driven it many times and with only 41,000 miles on the clock, it's got several good years left in it.
I've leased 3 Sentras--a 1992 2-door, a 1997 4-door (both sticks), and my current 2010. They were all solid, reliable little cars. I sold my 1997 to my sister and she drove it for many more years after my lease was up. What's kind of amazing, though, is that my 1997 GXE, which was a pretty basic car by today's standards with a stick, two airbags, no ABS, steel wheels, and power windows/locks/mirrors/cruise, listed for about $16k. That is about what a comparable compact lists for today, but the modern car has a lot more safety features, and probably more power (vs. 115 hp) with better fuel economy.
Cars really have improved in the past 15 years.
To no surprise, the Corolla came in last. Guess what came in first?"
I finally had a chance to go back and read the entire test on the MT website and I was surprised by the ranking of several models, but the Corolla and Elantra seem appropriately placed, IMO. Here are the ones that disappointed, concerned, shocked and/or irritated me-
#7- KIA Forte EX- This one is a disappointment. KIA upgraded the outdated 4-speed automatic to a new 6-speed automatic with the promise of improved acceleration and better fuel economy. The 0-60 time has been reduced from 10.3 to 9.2 seconds, which is a solid improvement. But the overall fuel economy of 23.9mpg is unacceptable on a car with EPA ratings of 26/36. The overall cheap look of the interior and seats that aren't all that comfy for the long haul were problems I had noted when I test drove a 2011 Forte SX 5-door. Now that Hyundai has reinvented its lineup, they need to give this model some of their 'magic'- I still love the exterior design, but the rest needs some work...
#5- Ford Focus Titanium- An overly-complicated high-tech interior design distracts from what is a fundamentally GREAT car in almost every other area. That's what I've been saying from the beginnings and the guys at MT seem to agree. Drive a Focus SE 5-speed manual and you'll see and feel how good this car can really be!
#4- VW Jetta TDI- MT requested a 2.5L model, VW still sent a TDI- it shouldn't have been allowed to participate, IMO.
#3- Mazda 3 i Touring- Where is the logic in putting the lower-level 'i' model against top trim levels of the Cruze, Focus, Civic and Elantra??? It was the least expensive test by a large margin- the second least expensive Corolla was $824 more and the highest priced Cruze was $4,595 more! Would the additional features and/or options on a Mazda3 s Sport or Grand Touring outweigh the lower fuel economy from the 2.5L engine? The i Touring model tested didn't even include the available Moonroof/6CD/Bose Package which only adds $1395 to the price. The total would have been very close to the Forte EX and Civic EX's sticker prices and still well below the Cruze, Focus, VW and Elantra! At that price, it would've included a Power Moonroof, 10-speaker, 265-watt Bose Centerpoint Surround Sound audio system and In-dash 6-CD changer.
#2- Civic EX- I honestly can't tell any difference at first glance, and I thought the previous model was HIDEOUS, so this new one is hardly a beauty queen! Honda has become lazy, or so it seems....even if they do get the best MPG of all.
It's interesting to see the results form a similar, but smaller (only five cars), comparison in the April 2011 issue of Car and Driver. Here's how they ranked the five they included-
5- VW Jetta SEL
4- Chevy Cruze LT
3- Hyundai Elantra Limited
2- Mazda3 s Sport 4-door
1- Ford Focus SEL 4-door
Either way, the Elantra and Mazda3 landed in the top three of each list...so they're the two I'd be considering, if I was actually in the market for a new car right now.
When Mazda's new SKYACTIV 40mpg highway 2.0L hits the roads later this fall, I may be one of the first in line....
The test results were predictable. C/D puts sharp handling above everything else. The car could knock your fillings out, but if it handled as if on rails it would place very high if not first. The MT test seemingly tried to look at the cars as a "typical" compact car buyer would. So they placed high value on attributes like rear seat room, ride quality, and interior design, vs. handling (although handling was a factor also).
Considering C/D didn't have a Civic to test and the two Jettas were like two different cars, the results were pretty close. Take those two things into account (i.e. discount the TDI factor), and the Focus, Elantra, and Mazda3 were in the top 3 of each list, just a different order. What mystifies me is how low the Cruze placed in each test. C/D anointed it "best in class" in their initial road test. Then they rank it 4th out of 5. And it was well down on MT's list also, despite having one of the nicest interiors, good ride/handling balance, and exceptional safety features. But a tight rear seat and so-so fuel economy. But if FE is most important, a Cruze buyer would get the Eco.
I'd love to see some mag test all the "40 mpg" cars out there, but test with an emphasis on driving for best fuel economy... not best 0-60 times.
What I find is that once you get to a certain level of performance and reliability, all the cars are essentially similar. At this point, between the vehicles compared in the article, I don't know that there is a bad choice or a car that "sucks." What I do think is there are cars that emphasize different atributes more than others. If your main measure is rear seat leg room, you would pick a different vehicle than if your emphasis was on handling prowess. Similarly, fuel economy might be a primary purchase reason, while for others, power or audio system quality might drive the purchase.
Now that I finally got a chance to drive a few of the vehicles, I agree that the Focus SE hatch/5spd manual is more my thing than the Titanium, but if you look at the content of the Titanium, it compares favorably to vehicles like the A3. I would like the Mazda3 (There are a few 1st generation Mazda3s in the family) but can't get past the smiley face.
I also think its so odd to me that after growing up in Southern California and seeing most Hondas as aspirational vehicles I'd want to own, the Civic really does nothing for me, nor the new Accord, for that matter. The Sentra (especially the SE-R) was also very big in the So Cal compact scene. It seems to have taken a different path (not bad, just different).
Like I said though, the choice is driven by individual wants and needs.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
I have to disagree. Just in this group of cars, there are major differences in some attributes important to many buyers. For example:
* Sharp handling: Mazda3, with Focus and Civic pretty good also. But there's a major difference in how those cars handle compared to others e.g. Corolla, Elantra, and Sentra.
* Performance: Big difference in acceleration in the class, since some cars have ~135 hp and others have 160-170 hp, with "sport" versions with even more power.
* Interior room: Huge range there, especially in rear seat room. Some cars such as Jetta and Elantra have very roomy rear seats for the class; others such as Corolla, Cruze, Focus, and Mazda3 have tight rear seats.
* Luxury features: Some cars do well just to offer a moonroof. Some such as the Corolla don't even offer leather, let alone other high-end features becoming increasingly common on cars like the Focus, Mazda3, and Cruze.
* Fuel economy: Huge range there. Some compacts like the Jetta 2.5 struggle to hit 30 mpg highway EPA, while others are over 40 mpg.
Those are just a few examples of the wide range of offerings in the compact class. Which is a good thing... easier for just about everyone to find something they like.
I am from one of those "Honda families". I have two cousins with 25+ years as Honda mechanics, my brother-in-law has worked in a Honda/Acura body shop for 21 years and my one of my uncles worked at another Honda dealership's body shop for 28 years. Back in 1996, for about four months, I even sold Hondas at the dealership where my cousins and bro-in-law work. Despite outselling all but two long-term salesmen during that time and making a lot of $$$, discovered that I have an affliction that is fatal for a sales person- a conscience!
But I drove a Honda from the day I got my license in 1991 (when I got my sister's hand-me-down '85 CRX Si) followed by six others over the next 14 years. I had an '89 Accord LXi 4-door, '90 Acura Legend L 4-door, '92 Accord EX 4-door, '94 Civic EX 2-door, '96 Accord EX 4-door and '99 Accord EX 4-door- all 5-speed manuals, too! It was never a question of which car to buy, but which Honda to buy!? My sister followed much the same pattern as me with a few Preludes thrown in. We even bought '96 Accords on the same day, in the same color- both were EX 4-door 5-speeds in Heather Mist Metallic (silvery gold). Mine was just the stock EX, but she managed to get a set of the EX Coupe wheels and she added the rear spoiler, sunroof deflector, had the windows tinted and even the hideously tacky 'gold' emblem package. Even though they started out as identical twins, you could definitely tell them apart after she finished 'accessorizing'.
When I totaled my '99 Accord in December 2005, I went to the Honda dealer the following morning to pick out my next one. That's when I saw the 2006 Civic for the first time and I test drove an EX 4-door with manual and an automatic. I couldn't believe how much I hated it- from the wonky exterior design (a cross between a doorstop and a suppository) and the two-tier digital/analog dash felt anything but Honda-like. I couldn't even find a color combo that I would consider if I did entertain the thought of buying one, which I didn't.
I genuinely liked the 2006 Accord, but my budget was around $18k and definitely not over $19k. The EX 4-door I wanted was over $23k and the LX was too plain-looking and still over $20k. I was confused and, for the first time, realized that my next car wasn't going to be a Honda. I ended up getting a 2006 Mazda3 s 5-door and I'm still happy with it 5.5yrs and 82k miles later! Some of my family considered it treason, at least that's how they acted. But over the last five years, I've watched almost every one of them do the same thing....
The 2008 Accord was the final sign to me that my days as a Honda owner were over. They no longer had anything I'd want to drive, much less own. The 'magic' that made my '85 CRX, '89 Accord and '90 Legend feel so unique and made them so enjoyable to drive was lost years ago. My '99 Accord still had the 'feel', but felt more polished and not as sporty as the earlier model.
I was hoping for a 2012 Civic that was slighlty less hideous, but they changed it so liittle that it would hardly seem like a 'refresh' much less a real 'redesign'. They also carried over the powertain which was no more than adequate in the old car. One of the car mags commented that they followed the Corolla's lead in terms of ride and handling. So it is now freaky looking and morre boring than ever before...
How about a blend of performance and economy? Fuel economy is only half the equation. If we were only concerned with fuel economy, we would be seeing 100hp engines in this class that get 50 mpg.
Manufacturers seem to be seeing who can get the best FE and best performance in one package.
I will agree, I would really like to see a battle of the 40mpg club. I would like to see who builds the best all around car assessing economy and performance.
I find it a bit weird that no one has driven a Mazda3 SKYACTIV just yet. The car is due here in the fall, perhaps as early as September. Maybe Mazda has been keeping the lid on that in combination with the disaster in Japan. Even us dealers have no more information than is currently available to the general public.
The reason I posed the "what if?" about a test focusing on fuel economy is that the car mags usually thrash the cars they test, and get far below the EPA specs in fuel economy. I just thought it would be interesting to have a test where the cars are driven more like normal people drive them, or even with some basic techniques (not hypermiling) to get maximum fuel economy, like using a light foot on the gas, sticking to speed limits, coasting up to lights when appropriate etc.
P.S. There is a near-100 hp engine in this class, in the base Jetta: 115 hp. But it doesn't get anything close to 50 mpg. I don't think 100 hp engines are the magic answer to better fuel economy, except maybe in very small cars. If we were interested in maximum fuel economy, we'd have small, light cars with 6-speed sticks and diesel engines. Guess how many of THOSE would sell in the USA? :P
I think you are making a point that defines what I was trying to say. Any of these vehicles is going to get you to work and back, safely and reliably. I also think that they would be fine for a small family. Fuel economy, for the most part, seems to be within 10% of each other. It comes down to what is important to the individual. Any of these will do just about anything one *needs* them to do, but some people will *want* one more than another.
Cars.com test
also in USA Today
Another note of interest was the statement in the 2012 Focus and Civic have been available since last September........."The combined average transaction price — including all options, discounts, rebates and shipping, but not taxes and license fees — for Elantras, Civics, Fortes, Focuses and Cruzes that dealers sold in May was $19,843, up about $1,500 just since September, the first month that all five shootout cars were available." After reading that line I tossed this article aside. Trip computer for fuel economy and clueless as to availability? Come on guys. Read more here if you missed this one:
Cars.com/USA Today