I don't claim to be a tire expert, but I believe the treadwear rating is most valid when comparing tires of the same brand. Supposedly, a treadwear rating of 600 should wear twice as long as the same tire with a 300 rating. I am not so sure that it is valid to claim that a 500 rated Firestone will last any longer than a 360 rated Continental, though. As I recall, that is a manufacturer's rating - not based on independent tests.
I can certainly understand your displeasure of not getting what was advertised, however.
Here is a link to the data through November. Lincoln down 17 percent this year. A six-speed V8 would bring interest back to the LS - oh sorry, we dropped that topic. ;-)
vary widely depending on which card you are using. In my experience AMEX is the best. They will take your complaint and charge it back until the merchant shows some proof that it is a legitimate charge. They seem to favor the consumer. Mastercharge, on the other hand asks YOU to talk to the merchant and resolve the matter, even if you never dealt with the merchant and it is a false charge. Most annoying to have to call MSN internet service and try to talk to them about how it wasn't you and you can't tell them anything about it since you didn't do it. I have been using my amex more and more and my others less and less because of this very reason.
I hope you printed the information from Tire Rack's website regarding your tires. If you didn't, I suggest you do so immediately (if they haven't already changed it.) Print the specs page, the price info, and anything else that would help prove your case should you decide to contest it.
Does your invoice provide any of the information in question? If the invoice doesn't jibe with what you received, it'll make your position much stronger with the credit card company.
I'm surprised by Tire Rack's response; I always thought they were an upstanding firm...
Quoting someone's earlier response, "I'm no expert." But if you check the Continental Tire site, the 360 rating equates to a 60,000 mile tire, at least for the CH95. That corresponds to the sorts of claimed mileages I've seen for similarly rated tires from other manufacturers. BTW, I didn't see a CV95 listed. I've also noted that the higher speed rating you have, the lower the tread life rating goes (e.g., Continental's CV90 was 160 for the 50-55 series, and 180 for the 60 series and they don't quote a tread life.) As always, actual mileage will depend on individual driving style, etc.
I don't quite remember Lexus offering a V8 6 speed manual on any of their cars. Now if there was a LS-V8 6 speed LS, Lincoln would sell about 5,000 of them a year but loose 2,000 a year of V6 manual sales so the net sales gain would still leave Lincoln 50,000 or so vehicles short of Lexus. I'll have to conclude that Lexus's greater sales are due to another factor such as focusing their energies on having poducts that the marketplace wants and having good dealers instead of building large SUV's, impractical luxury pickups and land yachts that date back to the Carter era which primarily sell to Limo companies.
BMW made a market that other manufacturers ignored. From the mid 1980's to 1999, they were the only player in the RWD, 4 door, manual market. Not that it's much market share, but their performance cars built a reputation that spread to the performance wanna-be buyer that thinks his BMW is a performance car. To Lexus also, one company can build both land yachts and boy racers. I don't see that LS430 buyers are repulsed by IS300s being in the same showroom. And Jag believes VVT LSes are a threat to Jag sales! Now there's a difference in philosophy! So why can't American car companies read the market. Are those marketing types in Detroit still trying to CREATE the market? Hey, guys, it either doesn't work that way or you are way too slow or wrong in reading the market. The Asians and Europeans RESPOND. Town car buyers are not going to leave the showroom if they see a hipo version of a Lincoln LS. Even a token screamer helps the image, and as BMW found out, they come in to buy the M3 and drive out in a 325/328/330i four door. But look what the M cars have done for the whole line. BMW has proven that you can only go so far with the "luxury" approach. Luxury is hard to define. Performance is not. The luxury only goes so far. Take a look at 7 series sales. Hey, it's not a big #. If LM worked on the LS line alone, expanding the image, finishing the car, it's appeal would widen. Hey, the car is still unknown. Prez had the first one at Solo 2 and the car is how old? Hey, the LS is a value champ and the Lincoln has got to get image before sales. When LM makes something that the mags cheer about, it will start. Like a waterfall. At Solo 2 I saw smaller cars with smaller engines that cost more. Hey, the numbers don't lie. Interview the buyers of the competition. It's not so much demographics than psychographics. I think the marketing guys at LM see the LS as a Conti replacement or a mini TC. Why not make a model as a performance leader. Just one car. Max out a V-6 with a six-speed, VVT, Torsen LSD, and 3:58 rear. Bolt-in stuff. If the six-speed is too much, how about the Mazda RX-7 O/D five-speed. Hey, it's already been prototyped with the Duratech and running around Detroit. Sell it for under 40k. It won't hurt CAFE and it won't sell in big #'s but the street image might be worth it. Or farm it out to the SVT boys. Hey, if a Focus can have a six-speed... Speaking of massive SUVs, I'm seeing a lot of Navigators with 22" wheels around. How much utility OR sport does it now have...Is this like a low and slow Civic for older guys?
While Lincoln is behind the competition in luxury sales at least someone is paying attention in Irvine (Lincoln Hqs.). Lincoln needs to finish the job on the following key points:
Product:
QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY is the reason why Lincoln is failing to reach the younger buyers who purchase Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc....
Replace the Continental with a very luxurious, slightly longer LS based platform.
Get the Aviator (SUV smaller than the Navigator) delivered on time and without defects.
Clean up the appearance and performance of the Town Car. Most likely, none of us will ever buy one, but it is fundamentally a good car.
Stop thinking that a shared platform means one division's car must be inferior. The obvious example is the dumming down of the V8 engine for the LS compared with the Jaguar S-type.
Personel: Get ride of the bean-counters who do nothing but figure out how to save a penny here and there. They are the reason that I have rattles in my doors, windows, and floor, and find loose parts in the trunk, back seat and engine compartment... Even worse is the time I waste at the dealer because someone permitted Pinto quality parts to be installed.
Dealers: I have yet to meet a Lincoln owner who said "The dealer service was great". Simply put, its time for Lincoln to force dealers with poor customer surveys results to retire and install a operator who understands what "Customer Service" means. I have been to 4 dealers and the service at all 4 is unacceptable.
Enough for tonight, I hope Lincoln gets the idea.....
I just went out to the garage to doublecheck those tires after reading what you guys had to say. They are Continental ContiTouring 215 60VR 16 94V CV 95. They are an all season tire, and I agree with everyone about the chargeback, especially the way the TireRack guy gave me about 15 seconds on the phone and then basically hung up on me.
The reason I will just have the tires mounted and go on down the road is I think I got a good price, and the LS will be returned at lease end in 15,000 miles. The factory Firestones still have decent tread with 30,000 on them(NO autocrossing, obviously). It's not that I have anything against the LS, on the contrary, it has been the best all-around sedan I have ever owned. But, with baby number 3 on the way next May, it's time to bite the bullet and get an SUV, so I can keep the 9 year old, 3 year old and newborn seperated on trips. This is the wife's ride, so maybe a Lincoln Aviator? Thanks for all the help here, I have read this thread before I got the LS, and what I read here helped me choose it over several other models.
My sincere apologies if you were offended by my post - that wasn't my point - My point was that even little critters like that can easily damage your LS at semi-low speed - so beware! I actually tried to swerve to miss it!
I live in a part of the country where wildlife abounds, and "Road Kill" is a very frequent sight on the highways. Just last week (whitetail deer hunting season) I had a deer dash out across and just narrowly missed hitting it - going 55 mph. 3 more deer crossed immediately afterwards. I also had a large black bear cross right in front of me in recent months. I'm not even going to detail how the porcupine quills in my driver's side Firestone walls got there...
About 2 weeks ago, my dad borrowed my 92 Conti and literally ran over a whole, recently killed deer. (He could not avoid hitting it.) There was absolutely no visible damage besides one of the heat shields separating - and he said that - when it happened, it sounded like the front end had been destroyed! (I can't imagine the damage the LS would have sustained.) Last week, my brother had a deer run into and dent the passenger door on his F-150 (That was about the 15th or so deer to have been hit by that truck alone...)
So - I guess from my perspective you need to have a little humor when your driving around my "neck of the woods." Sorry! - I guess I won't share my wildlife tales anymore!
On our way from south FLA to Atlanta for the Thanksgiving holidays. North bound on US 27 a few miles north of Clewiston, Florida at about 7:30 pm, cruise set about 75 mph. When out of nowhere, a racoon is standing directly in front of my LS, not moving across the road, standing dead still in the road. My passenger side fog light was totally knocked out of the air dam, and the air dam was cracked in 3 places.
After Thanksgiving dinner, my brother-in-law(who happens to be a State Farm adjuster) gets his book out and does a rough estimate. $1,000. He is only off by about $37.
I guess it just hit me wrong as it seemed to be so light as to be amused. No apology needed. I would hate to hit any living thing with my car, but I have and I expect I will again. I ran into a doberman pinscher (actually he ran into the side of my car) which did about $2500 damage to my car (long before I ever had a decent car like the LS). When the police came they wanted to see what the dog looked like as my car was pretty well trashed. The dobie had a scratch on his neck and was otherwise just fine if somewhat testy. That ended any thoughts I might have had as to overpowering any dog that size which might attack me. No chance! I was able to recover the amount of the damages from the owner of the dog, but I was a lot more angry at that dope for letting his poor dog loose to run at night than at the poor dog, who was just doing his thing (chasing a cat in fact).
I've been driving the same two-lane rural highways for almost four years now, in the dark most every morning, and dark evenings in the winter as well. There is no such thing as ONE deer crossing the highway.:) Plus raccoons, porcupines, skunk, coyotes, not to mention the usual loose livestock & pets. I believe the wide beam of the LS driving lights is giving the critters extra warning. I've only had one remotely close call with an animal since I got the car 14 months ago.
Gee, where I live (in San Diego), I'd be lucky to see a house cat darting across the road. What's a deer? I think I am urbanly deprived. And many kids here have never seen snow!
You need to come to my neck of "the woods". I've come close to picking off many a coyote. I did get to see a little bit 'o' nature a few months ago. A cat crossed the road in front of my as I was coming home from work about 10:30pm. As soon as the cat crossed the two lanes of pavement, a coyote was hot on it's tail!
Wow, last ten posts; I thought I was at the National Geographic web forum and at Tire Rack complaining about factory non-sport tires. What gives? I hope none of you take defence but, we should talk about mods, Solo, or even the project LS-GT and it's progress. I don't like going to this web forum and see a similer posts on running over little gerbles in the road and how much damaged it cost your wife's, uncle's, brother, son-in-law's F-150 or like-whys. I know you probualy wear bifoculs and live in Alabama so, slow down a bit a open your eyes and look to avoid those critters on the road. And if you hit one after this post that I have left; don't talk about it in this forum. Talk about it to your next door neigbor, Bob and Mary-Sue!
Now here's some for you: If you don't like it, don't read it! There are lots of topics on this board that are of no interest to me at all. I have a V8 so modifying anything on the V6 is of little interest to me. I don't intend to buy Continental tires at Tire Rack, so the details of that transaction aren't all that exciting to me either, but I found an amazing new computer tool! It is the down arrow. I can scroll past anything that I don't like. I also can respond to anything that I feel like. But, as I said, thanks for your pithy advice.
Not to say that I haven't been close, including the dog/deer running into my vehicle, but I choose to change the subject.
Road & Track (01/02) Owner's survey for the E-Class Benz mentions rear door window problems! Not quite their 5% mark, but it got mentioned in their article all the same.
November 2001, Forenza (?), big mention in the letters to the mechanic column. (Letters to Giuesspe) He goes on to explain the problems with Exotic Italian cars, yep, some cable operated device to raise and lower the windows!
Here is a Luxury car and a Sport's Car suffering the same dilemma, and think of our savings! None were invited to their manufacturing base for an explanation of the problem, nor informed of the cure. I'm very pleased with my LS!
Lola, you forgot to mention how much better turn in in reverse felt. ;-)
IIRC, I read an explanation of the tire rating system many years ago, and a treadwear rating of "100" was supposed to represent (something like) 12,000 miles of normal wear. Therefore a rating of "200" would mean 24,000 miles of wear, and "300" would represent 36,000 miles.
I had thought the rating system to be reasonably accurate as my "220" rated Goodyear Gatorbacks (4 sets) would go about 22k-27K miles, and my Goodrich Comp T/A VR's (3 sets) with a "300" rating would go 35k-40k miles.
For someone who started the whole coversation; I wouldn't talk. What you said,"There are lots of topics on this board that are of no interest to me at all.I have a V8 so modifying anything on the V6 is of little interest to me.(quote on quote)" About modifying the V-6 has alot to do with the V-8. They both share alot of the same electronical components as well as exhaust systems not to mention, interior features. And one other thing; I have a nice mouse with scroll up&down, page forward&backward, and it's laser optical. I have no problem scrolling down but, there comes a time to let the little critters that are your house-hold pets be left alone; there probualy molested enough. You should also follow your own advice and scroll down if something offends you and your pets(Rats included.) But, none the less; thank you for your pithy advise.
I got today a Brushed alum shiftier plate for the shiftier; and it looks great with the wood that I already have. It accents it real nice. Got it from e-bay. I'm still looking for the preamium front floormats with the Lincoln logo stichted into them in light Graphite. Has anybody yet tried putting in an after-market Xenon HID kit in; the real deal thing not the blue tinted bulbs? If so, I would like to know if it looks and reflexes good because, I'm thinking of getting the kit(it ain't cheap:)
At one time these conversion kits were not even DOT legal - not sure if that's changed. But as good as the LS' headlights are to begin with I personally don't see the value. If you really want better lighting performance get a set of PIAA driving lights (high beams) and auxilliary low beams. Those will outperform any HID kit factory or otherwise and probably cost less as well.
gkarg, I've been off-line for several days, but in answer to your request, while the Borla will let you, and them, know it's there, one would be hard pressed to call it loud. Installing one might even help warn critters that you are bearing down on them.
I live on the edge of the Everglades and have spent lots of time in PA. Both areas have lots of potential road kill. As a believer in the sanctity of all life, I think the combination of LS fog lights and the exterior sound of the Borla may ward off both animal and LS injury.
Also, I enjoy all the posts on this board, even the ones that I fly over because they don't apply. The one exception is the thankfully rare, smartazz self appointed topic cop, that occasionally pollutes this most civil of forums.
When I purchased my LS8 sport nearly two years ago, my dealer did the wood dash add-on and window tint immediately following devlivery (He had a non-sport LS on the show room floor with wood dash kit that I really liked). When the add-ons were completed on my car, I was surprised to see that I had an aluminum shifter plate. I really liked the look of the aluminum plate (it was actually plastic), as it contrasted nicely with the wood. Unfortunately, the pieces were not cut acurately, and the cutouts for the gear indicator labels obscured the letters (P, R, N, D, etc.) and just didn't look good enough to me. I worked with the vendor my dealer subbed the work out to, and I eventually had a wood piece installed instead from a different vendor (I had to wait an additional 2-3 weeks for the sport shift pattern to be fabricated). While I would have preferred a well-cut aluminum piece, the vendor stated that they had had quality concerns with that dash kit supplier. It never occurred to me at the time to track down the names of the various dash-kit suppliers, so, to this day, I am unaware of who made the kit installed in my car. I imagine the quality issues I had have long since been addressed, but you never know!
Allright guys first of all let me preface this by saying, that I am an AVID LS enthusiast and I really believe in the car and the people who built it and designed it. Most of us here have gotten to know them and as we all know they are a stand up bunch of guys and gals.
Now that being said, everyday I grow more disappointed with Lincoln and their product. My car has been in the Dealership now for over a week for a clunk and the mechanic cannot find it. He has a chassis analyzer on it and I can tell he is working hard to fix it but can't find the problem. He also seems very capable. However I think it is a problem with the product I have. I just came back from seeing them..
I have grown tired of driving the towncar--i.e. not getting an LS and I have definitely gotten tired at the number of times I have had issues with my car.
Here is a short list of off the top of my head issues that have been addressed with my car:
Brakes Clanking (New Brake Pads and Rotor turned) ---2 weeks after purchase in 2000. Moisture in both Headlamps--Each Replaced at different times Doors realigned---Not aligned from factory 3 radios replaced--(3 visits) Rear Regulator Failure, Rear Door Panel Discoloring Seat Belt Installed Backwards, Clunking from rear seat---2 Visits Added more foam to correct Clunking from Steering Wheel (Added Foam to correct) Brake Fluid Cap Leaking.. Clunking in Chassis/Suspension/Body Panel (1 Week in shop and counting)
Thoughts.... Anyone. Put yourself in my shoes I am listening for comments.
Personally I think I have lost a WHOLE LOT OF TIME addressing these issues. I don't want to do it anymore... You guys know where I am headed...
I had my whole radio removed and replaced. The technician from the radio shop that replaced the head unit said that the "experts" at Ford and Visteon agreed there was indeed a whine during quiet passages of cassette playing, but they said when it was still there after the unit replacement there was nothing they could do about it. I don't agree, but it is not annoying enough for me to make an issue of it. It did get better with the new head unit, but lately it has come back with a vengeance. After a while, I just make believe I have tinnitus (sp) and grin and bear it. If you want, scroll back quite a bit and there were some people who installed filters and chokes on the alternator and some others who were convinced it was a ground problem, but there never seemed to be a consensus on how to fix it and I was one of the few who actually got a new radio out of it. I think the lack of complaints is more related to the fact that most people don't use their cassettes much anymore. I have not noticed any whine during radio reception or CD play, have you?
Vic-what's your build date? A while back someone put forth the idea here or on LLSOC that the earlier cars don't seem to have the problems that the later ones do. That sort of struck a chord with me. Mine was built in 9/99. Other than the usual stuff, i.e., D/S seat heater, fogged headlights, trunk weatherstripping-all no biggies to me. I saw a 2002 Maxima last night with a fogged headlamp. I haven't had any of these "hard" issues that seem to plague the later cars. I don't know, maybe they were going slowly earlier on. My car is as solid as the proverbial bank vault. This is the first Ford product I've owned with no rattles or squeaks. I've had no vibrations or other phantom noises, never had a no-start or dead battery and no window crashes. I know I've probably jinxed myself now. I don't listen to cassettes any more, so that's not an issue for ME. (I tried it once and I did detect the "audio tachometer") Panel fit is perfect and except for one small defect, the paint is gorgeous (ivory tri-coat).
When you say a rear door panel discoloring, presumably you're talking about an interior panel? That's a weird one.
I did have my clunking steering column replaced just yesterday.
While the car doesn't seem to have let you down or stranded you, I can certainly understand your frustration with the time wasted. My first Sable spent a total of 11 weeks in the shop in the 29 months I owned it. I've had some other lulus as well and after a while, you still get fed up even though you know they're trying to fix it and you're getting a loaner car as well.
As far as the "brake fluid cap leaking", I'm guessing you mean brake fluid seepage around the top of the master cylinder. I have this too and had it on all of my other Ford products as well. I bring it to their attention with each new car and each time they tell me it's normal. While it may or may not be normal, I've never seen any adverse effects from this and I've learned not to worry about it after 15 years. I just wipe it off every now and again.
That chassis clunking item would be driving me batty too.
I hope you get all your issues resolved and I hope to see you again at the next LLSOC event, a more pleased LS owner.
PS- I'd love to have a TC loaner. My last 2 have been an Escort ZX2 and this week I had a Chevy Venture MINI-VAN! Oh, no. Me in a mini-van. Imagine my surprise when I forgot what that I wasn't driving an LS and took the on-ramp at 20 over the limit!
It is strange that the whine is only in cassette mode. I would like to contact Visteon or Alpine (I thought Alpine was the manufacturer) about this problem. I have one of those choke/capacitor set-ups and I could try it at the battery and at the head unit. The battery is a great filter but being in the trunk, it has less filtering effect. Ok, Vic, we'll drop the subject shortly. I do listen to cassettes a lot. I record the talk shows relating to cars and computers on AM radio here during the weekends (I have 3 double auto-reverse decks on timers) and play them back during the week.
I am looking to lease an 2002 LS V8 Premium. 3 year 15,000 miles a year. Was curious if anyone can share what they are leasing the car and if they put money down..
I know Woodview and Benevento both make a wood kit for the LS with the Alum shiftier plate. I don't really know if you can buy it separate from those company s. Just check on ebay once in awhile for it. As for what lolaj42 said about her experience with the dealer installed alum shift plate; I would assume that it was an early model of the shift plate because, mine fits in real nice; it looks like it was meant to be their. It ain't your ordinary peel n stick opperation. You actually have to remove the shifter nob, console top, and prep the area. The plate has the hole perfectly cut out for the trans markings eg:P,R,N,D5,D4,3,2,1. It goes around the whole shifter gate instead of having a slit to go aroung leading to a looks like its not supposed to be there kind of look. Although, it's not real alum(it's some kind of plastic,)it looks just like the real thing. My friend works at a machine shop and were going to test a 12" x 12" x 1/8" piece of billit alum and try to cut out all the holes including the pattern with the CNC cutter, and place double-sided 3M tape on it.
Your name is not an uncommon one, but were you, by chance, an engineer for a manufacturer of industrial automation systems that went bankrupt two years ago? If so, we're acquainted, as I was one of the machinists.
I did a 3 year lease and put a lot of analysis in on lease & lease vs. buy. I see no reason to put any money down on a lease, so I didn't. The only reason I can see to do it is if your credit is not good enough to qualifiy for the lease payment so you have to reduce the monthly payment to get approved.
airwolfe100: My driver's side seat belt is installed backwards in the B pillar. One of the times I took the car back to the dealer I complained about it. All the dealer did was twist the belt around where it goes into the B pillar so it turned around to the wrong way again in about a week. My driver's seatbelt also does not retract about 50% of the time probably due in part to the twisted belt. I also had several fasteners missing from the inner fenders and a missing bracket and fastner on the enginer cover. To quote Ford's lastest turn around manager for N. America "If the customer can see it why can't we" gets things straightened out. Of his top issues the first 3 were quality, quality & quality. (from Detroit News Dec 11). Like you I will probably head elsewhere when my lease is up. Although I like the LS I just can't put up with the Lincoln dealer service departments anymore. 8 trips to 2 dealers & I still can't get my vibration fixed.
Vic, my experience is virtually identical to that posted by Artie (drolds). I empathize with you though. Having met you at Mania 1, your LS must be an early '00 MY build date (though I can't remember if you actually had your car at that time). I can't imagine that Lemon laws apply any longer to your vehicle. I thought Lemon laws only related to new vehicles. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Many of your problems have been well chronicled here by others. Unfortunately, these problems are/were not isolated and many people have been irriated by them. However, the common problems, IMO, do not rise to the level that would cause me to lose sleep over my purchase decision. Your service shop SHOULD be able to correct the common issues promptly. If not, try another service center.
As far as the "clunking" problems are concerned, has your service manager been able to experience the sound first-hand? My LS makes no such noise, so I'm afraid I'm of no help here. The sad thing about most service centers is that they put very little effort into diagnostics beyond plugging in a computer (at least in my experience). This clunking sound is obviously mechanical in origin. Unless a technician actually drives the car over the proper roads/conditions and experiences the sound, the chances of finding the cause diminish rapidly. Have you offered to duplicate the sound with a service manager by taking him for a ride?
Hang in there and plese remain patient, AND persistant.
I'm a newbie and apologize if this has been discussed before. I recently placed a magnetic rubberized strip to protect the doors of my new '02 LS in a parking lot from dings and they worked fine. However, when I tried to move the strip forward to the front fender it would not stick. Are the front fenders not steel (e.g. aluminum)?
carlo42, yep, the front fenders, hood, and trunk lid are aluminum. Keeps the weight down, and more evenly distributed. That's why the battery is in the trunk, and on the passenger side, where it belongs.
On first year cars, my '00 has had a rear window regulator failure, and has two tiny but annoying rattles in the driver's door that have gotten worse since the weather turned cold again. Otherwise, trouble free at 35k miles. Now, this may be considered anecdotal evidence and not worth much. But I think the LS has, overall, been remarkably bug-free in it's first year, not to be unsympathetic to Victor & others who have been unlucky. With the extensive testing, computer simulations, etc. that go into modern car design, I'm not sure the old first year taboo is valid anymore. Consumer Reports used to have a blanket policy of recommending against first-year-of-production cars, but not anymore.
Between 12 and 15 feet, depending on where it's terminated in the engine compartment. This cable is not cheap because of the length and the fact that is usually larger guage to compensate for any amperage drop over the added length. Keep in mind that the higher the voltage of the battery, the smaller the guage needed for all the wiring. Car manufacturers saved a fortune when cars switched from 6 volt to 12 volt systems in the fifties. Volts X Amps = Watts.
My car was an early 2000 build, Feb 08, 2000 I believe. Regarding the Lemon-Law issue, in Texas it is within the first 24,000 miles or 6 months after the 24,000 miles. I am right at the cusp. I could still do something about it.
I have waited this long because I have tried to be patient and I really haven't voiced my concerns beacause I do love the LS. Its just its coming to a head. There is only so much you can deal with. What am I supposed to do, deal with these issues until the warranty wears out? Not practical. Yesterday I lost an hour of work and let me tell ya, I have lost quite a few in the morning dropping off my car with all the visits. We can make counts at how much my hours tally up to monetarily wise but I am sure it will get up there.
At first I also used to get an LS, now for the past year I have been getting a town car. Do you know how annoying that is? Granted its better then the metro but still.
It also makes me look like an Idiot when I talk about my LS at work and how wonderful it is and then they ask me where is your LS? And I answer "At the shop getting fixed". And then they say oh that is your Towncar out there right now? "Yes" and then they laugh a little---(I am 26, not a cool car for people my age).
O.K. Now I bought a $40K Car for this? Alot of people I work with drive BMW's How do you think the Lincoln is looking... I sure am glad I am not sporting the LS1BMW0 otherwise I would have to be LS0BMW1. Even though I know the LS can hang performancewise.
Guys I love the LS.. And my Dealership and Service Advisor are both Excellent, They have heard the clunking from day one. We heard it the whole time the mechanic and I drove it yesterday. They just can't Isolate where it is originating from. They know it is in the right frontal area but that is it. Even with the Chassis Analyzer or ears they can't pinpoint it. The mechanic is their expert on Front-End noises etc. And he says this one has him baffled. It has been 8 or 9 working days since they started looking into the problem.
Last weekend I changed the oil on the LS, and was shocked to find that the oil filters had jumped from $7.50 to $10.35. I know that something was said here, a while back, but I guess it didn't sink in until it was time to but some more. I did some research, and Baldwin Filters also makes a filter for the 8 cylinder LS. Their part number is B1435. A little more digging found that a company called EDM Zap, in Lisle, Il. is an industrial wharehouse distributor for Baldwin. They will order case lots of 12 filters, and have Baldwin drop ship to you directly. The cost is $5.53 each, plus shipping, and they tell me the case is a 9 lb. package. Their number is 800-759-2839.
Comments
I can certainly understand your displeasure of not getting what was advertised, however.
http://www.auto.com/industry/iwirc11_20011211.htm
1. Lexus - 201,780
2. BMW - 194,713
3. Mercedes - 186,562
4. Cadillac - 159,770
5. Acura - 155,806
6. Lincoln - 149,348
http://www.bonforums.com/sales/sales_lincolnvscaddy.htm
It also lists a breakdown by vehicle (Cadillac vs. Lincoln) 1990-2000.
Does your invoice provide any of the information in question? If the invoice doesn't jibe with what you received, it'll make your position much stronger with the credit card company.
I'm surprised by Tire Rack's response; I always thought they were an upstanding firm...
boy racers. I don't see that LS430 buyers are repulsed by IS300s being in the same showroom. And Jag believes VVT LSes are a threat to Jag sales! Now there's a difference in philosophy!
So why can't American car companies read the market. Are those marketing types in Detroit still trying to CREATE the market? Hey, guys, it either doesn't work that way or you are way too slow or wrong in reading the market. The Asians and Europeans RESPOND. Town car buyers are not going to leave the showroom if they see a hipo version of a Lincoln LS. Even a token screamer helps the image, and as BMW found out, they come in to buy the M3 and drive out in a 325/328/330i four door. But look what the M cars have done for the whole line. BMW has proven that you can only go so far with the "luxury" approach. Luxury is hard to define. Performance is not. The luxury only goes so far. Take a look at 7 series sales. Hey, it's not a big #. If LM worked on the LS line alone, expanding the image, finishing the car, it's appeal would widen. Hey, the car is still unknown. Prez had the first one at Solo 2 and the car is how old? Hey, the LS is a value champ and the Lincoln has got to get image before sales. When LM makes something that the mags cheer about, it will start. Like a waterfall. At Solo 2 I saw smaller cars with smaller engines that cost more. Hey, the numbers don't lie. Interview the buyers of the competition. It's not so much demographics than psychographics. I think the marketing guys at LM see the LS as a Conti replacement or a mini TC. Why not make a model as a performance leader. Just one car. Max out a V-6 with a six-speed, VVT, Torsen LSD, and 3:58 rear. Bolt-in stuff. If the six-speed is too much, how about the Mazda RX-7 O/D five-speed. Hey, it's already been prototyped with the Duratech and running around Detroit. Sell it for under 40k. It won't hurt CAFE and it won't sell in big #'s but the street image might be worth it. Or farm it out to the SVT boys. Hey, if a Focus can have a six-speed... Speaking of massive SUVs, I'm seeing a lot of Navigators with 22" wheels around. How much utility OR sport does it now have...Is this like a low and slow Civic for older guys?
Product:
QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY is the reason why Lincoln is failing to reach the younger buyers who purchase Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc....
Replace the Continental with a very luxurious, slightly longer LS based platform.
Get the Aviator (SUV smaller than the Navigator) delivered on time and without defects.
Clean up the appearance and performance of the Town Car. Most likely, none of us will ever buy one, but it is fundamentally a good car.
Stop thinking that a shared platform means one division's car must be inferior. The obvious example is the dumming down of the V8 engine for the LS compared with the Jaguar S-type.
Personel:
Get ride of the bean-counters who do nothing but figure out how to save a penny here and there. They are the reason that I have rattles in my doors, windows, and floor, and find loose parts in the trunk, back seat and engine compartment... Even worse is the time I waste at the dealer because someone permitted Pinto quality parts to be installed.
Dealers:
I have yet to meet a Lincoln owner who said "The dealer service was great". Simply put, its time for Lincoln to force dealers with poor customer surveys results to retire and install a operator who understands what "Customer Service" means. I have been to 4 dealers and the service at all 4 is unacceptable.
Enough for tonight, I hope Lincoln gets the idea.....
The reason I will just have the tires mounted and go on down the road is I think I got a good price, and the LS will be returned at lease end in 15,000 miles. The factory Firestones still have decent tread with 30,000 on them(NO autocrossing, obviously). It's not that I have anything against the LS, on the contrary, it has been the best all-around sedan I have ever owned. But, with baby number 3 on the way next May, it's time to bite the bullet and get an SUV, so I can keep the 9 year old, 3 year old and newborn seperated on trips. This is the wife's ride, so maybe a Lincoln Aviator? Thanks for all the help here, I have read this thread before I got the LS, and what I read here helped me choose it over several other models.
Thanks again.
I live in a part of the country where wildlife abounds, and "Road Kill" is a very frequent sight on the highways. Just last week (whitetail deer hunting season) I had a deer dash out across and just narrowly missed hitting it - going 55 mph. 3 more deer crossed immediately afterwards. I also had a large black bear cross right in front of me in recent months. I'm not even going to detail how the porcupine quills in my driver's side Firestone walls got there...
About 2 weeks ago, my dad borrowed my 92 Conti and literally ran over a whole, recently killed deer. (He could not avoid hitting it.) There was absolutely no visible damage besides one of the heat shields separating - and he said that - when it happened, it sounded like the front end had been destroyed! (I can't imagine the damage the LS would have sustained.) Last week, my brother had a deer run into and dent the passenger door on his F-150 (That was about the 15th or so deer to have been hit by that truck alone...)
So - I guess from my perspective you need to have a little humor when your driving around my "neck of the woods." Sorry! - I guess I won't share my wildlife tales anymore!
After Thanksgiving dinner, my brother-in-law(who happens to be a State Farm adjuster) gets his book out and does a rough estimate. $1,000. He is only off by about $37.
Happy Holidays,
Mike
Road & Track (01/02) Owner's survey for the E-Class Benz mentions rear door window problems! Not quite their 5% mark, but it got mentioned in their article all the same.
November 2001, Forenza (?), big mention in the letters to the mechanic column. (Letters to Giuesspe) He goes on to explain the problems with Exotic Italian cars, yep, some cable operated device to raise and lower the windows!
Here is a Luxury car and a Sport's Car suffering the same dilemma, and think of our savings! None were invited to their manufacturing base for an explanation of the problem, nor informed of the cure. I'm very pleased with my LS!
Lola, you forgot to mention how much better turn in in reverse felt. ;-)
Tom
I had thought the rating system to be reasonably accurate as my "220" rated Goodyear Gatorbacks (4 sets) would go about 22k-27K miles, and my Goodrich Comp T/A VR's (3 sets) with a "300" rating would go 35k-40k miles.
I got today a Brushed alum shiftier plate for the shiftier; and it looks great with the wood that I already have. It accents it real nice. Got it from e-bay. I'm still looking for the preamium front floormats with the Lincoln logo stichted into them in light Graphite. Has anybody yet tried putting in an after-market Xenon HID kit in; the real deal thing not the blue tinted bulbs? If so, I would like to know if it looks and reflexes good because, I'm thinking of getting the kit(it ain't cheap:)
Mike
http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/info/bulbs/HID/conversion/
At one time these conversion kits were not even DOT legal - not sure if that's changed. But as good as the LS' headlights are to begin with I personally don't see the value. If you really want better lighting performance get a set of PIAA driving lights (high beams) and auxilliary low beams. Those will outperform any HID kit factory or otherwise and probably cost less as well.
I live on the edge of the Everglades and have spent lots of time in PA. Both areas have lots of potential road kill. As a believer in the sanctity of all life, I think the combination of LS fog lights and the exterior sound of the Borla may ward off both animal and LS injury.
Also, I enjoy all the posts on this board, even the ones that I fly over because they don't apply. The one exception is the thankfully rare, smartazz self appointed topic cop, that occasionally pollutes this most civil of forums.
Gary
LLSOC Member
Now that being said, everyday I grow more disappointed with Lincoln and their product.
My car has been in the Dealership now for over a week for a clunk and the mechanic cannot find it. He has a chassis analyzer on it and I can tell he is working hard to fix it but can't find the problem. He also seems very capable. However I think it is a problem with the product I have. I just came back from seeing them..
I have grown tired of driving the towncar--i.e. not getting an LS and I have definitely gotten tired at the number of times I have had issues with my car.
Here is a short list of off the top of my head issues that have been addressed with my car:
Brakes Clanking (New Brake Pads and Rotor turned) ---2 weeks after purchase in 2000.
Moisture in both Headlamps--Each Replaced at different times
Doors realigned---Not aligned from factory
3 radios replaced--(3 visits)
Rear Regulator Failure,
Rear Door Panel Discoloring
Seat Belt Installed Backwards,
Clunking from rear seat---2 Visits Added more foam to correct
Clunking from Steering Wheel (Added Foam to correct)
Brake Fluid Cap Leaking..
Clunking in Chassis/Suspension/Body Panel (1 Week in shop and counting)
Thoughts.... Anyone. Put yourself in my shoes I am listening for comments.
Personally I think I have lost a WHOLE LOT OF TIME addressing these issues. I don't want to do it anymore... You guys know where I am headed...
Regards,
Airwolf1000
Regards,
Airwolf
I know what I want to do, however I want to listen to what you would do if you were in my shoes.
Regards,
Airwolf1000
When you say a rear door panel discoloring, presumably you're talking about an interior panel? That's a weird one.
I did have my clunking steering column replaced just yesterday.
While the car doesn't seem to have let you down or stranded you, I can certainly understand your frustration with the time wasted. My first Sable spent a total of 11 weeks in the shop in the 29 months I owned it. I've had some other lulus as well and after a while, you still get fed up even though you know they're trying to fix it and you're getting a loaner car as well.
As far as the "brake fluid cap leaking", I'm guessing you mean brake fluid seepage around the top of the master cylinder. I have this too and had it on all of my other Ford products as well. I bring it to their attention with each new car and each time they tell me it's normal. While it may or may not be normal, I've never seen any adverse effects from this and I've learned not to worry about it after 15 years. I just wipe it off every now and again.
That chassis clunking item would be driving me batty too.
I hope you get all your issues resolved and I hope to see you again at the next LLSOC event, a more pleased LS owner.
PS- I'd love to have a TC loaner. My last 2 have been an Escort ZX2 and this week I had a Chevy Venture MINI-VAN! Oh, no. Me in a mini-van. Imagine my surprise when I forgot what that I wasn't driving an LS and took the on-ramp at 20 over the limit!
Artie
Charter member LLSOC.
Mike
Scott
LLSOC Member
I would never buy the first year of any car and I have read this advice many times. It's like boaters know that you never buy hull #1.
airwolfe100: My driver's side seat belt is installed backwards in the B pillar. One of the times I took the car back to the dealer I complained about it. All the dealer did was twist the belt around where it goes into the B pillar so it turned around to the wrong way again in about a week. My driver's seatbelt also does not retract about 50% of the time probably due in part to the twisted belt. I also had several fasteners missing from the inner fenders and a missing bracket and fastner on the enginer cover.
To quote Ford's lastest turn around manager for N. America "If the customer can see it why can't we" gets things straightened out. Of his top issues the first 3 were quality, quality & quality. (from Detroit News Dec 11). Like you I will probably head elsewhere when my lease is up. Although I like the LS I just can't put up with the Lincoln dealer service departments anymore. 8 trips to 2 dealers & I still can't get my vibration fixed.
Many of your problems have been well chronicled here by others. Unfortunately, these problems are/were not isolated and many people have been irriated by them. However, the common problems, IMO, do not rise to the level that would cause me to lose sleep over my purchase decision. Your service shop SHOULD be able to correct the common issues promptly. If not, try another service center.
As far as the "clunking" problems are concerned, has your service manager been able to experience the sound first-hand? My LS makes no such noise, so I'm afraid I'm of no help here. The sad thing about most service centers is that they put very little effort into diagnostics beyond plugging in a computer (at least in my experience). This clunking sound is obviously mechanical in origin. Unless a technician actually drives the car over the proper roads/conditions and experiences the sound, the chances of finding the cause diminish rapidly. Have you offered to duplicate the sound with a service manager by taking him for a ride?
Hang in there and plese remain patient, AND persistant.
Chris
LLSOC Charter Member
Are the front fenders not steel (e.g. aluminum)?
On first year cars, my '00 has had a rear window regulator failure, and has two tiny but annoying rattles in the driver's door that have gotten worse since the weather turned cold again. Otherwise, trouble free at 35k miles. Now, this may be considered anecdotal evidence and not worth much. But I think the LS has, overall, been remarkably bug-free in it's first year, not to be unsympathetic to Victor & others who have been unlucky. With the extensive testing, computer simulations, etc. that go into modern car design, I'm not sure the old first year taboo is valid anymore. Consumer Reports used to have a blanket policy of recommending against first-year-of-production cars, but not anymore.
Scott
LLSOC Member
.........Sorry, I couldn't help myself, it's been a long week!
My car was an early 2000 build, Feb 08, 2000 I believe. Regarding the Lemon-Law issue, in Texas it is within the first 24,000 miles or 6 months after the 24,000 miles. I am right at the cusp. I could still do something about it.
I have waited this long because I have tried to be patient and I really haven't voiced my concerns beacause I do love the LS. Its just its coming to a head. There is only so much you can deal with. What am I supposed to do, deal with these issues until the warranty wears out? Not practical. Yesterday I lost an hour of work and let me tell ya, I have lost quite a few in the morning dropping off my car with all the visits. We can make counts at how much my hours tally up to monetarily wise but I am sure it will get up there.
At first I also used to get an LS, now for the past year I have been getting a town car. Do you know how annoying that is? Granted its better then the metro but still.
It also makes me look like an Idiot when I talk about my LS at work and how wonderful it is and then they ask me where is your LS? And I answer "At the shop getting fixed". And then they say oh that is your Towncar out there right now? "Yes" and then they laugh a little---(I am 26, not a cool car for people my age).
O.K. Now I bought a $40K Car for this? Alot of people I work with drive BMW's How do you think the Lincoln is looking... I sure am glad I am not sporting the LS1BMW0 otherwise I would have to be LS0BMW1. Even though I know the LS can hang performancewise.
Guys I love the LS.. And my Dealership and Service Advisor are both Excellent, They have heard the clunking from day one. We heard it the whole time the mechanic and I drove it yesterday. They just can't Isolate where it is originating from. They know it is in the right frontal area but that is it. Even with the Chassis Analyzer or ears they can't pinpoint it. The mechanic is their expert on Front-End noises etc. And he says this one has him baffled. It has been 8 or 9 working days since they started looking into the problem.
We will see what happens.
Regards,
Victor
I did some research, and Baldwin Filters also makes a filter for the 8 cylinder LS. Their part number is B1435. A little more digging found that a company called EDM Zap, in Lisle, Il. is an industrial wharehouse distributor for Baldwin. They will order case lots of 12 filters, and have Baldwin drop ship to you directly. The cost is $5.53 each, plus shipping, and they tell me the case is a 9 lb. package. Their number is 800-759-2839.