We also need to keep in mind that the LS is larger than the 5 series. 5 series is EPA classified as a compact car, and the LS is classified as mid-sized. The LS is actually closer in dimensions to the 7 series ("i", not the longer wheelbased "il") than it is to the 5 series.
I'm still waiting to hear back. I'm sure they have to check for liability issues for people who are outside the club. I believe that the class we would run in is: C (stock 6/8/12 cyl) or N (Novice limited to 1st and 2nd events only). I also asked for information about doing our own event at the Q. And I realized I messed up the date. The LA CHAPTER autocross is on 2/18 at Santa Anita. The SAN DIEGO autocross is on 2/10 at Qualcomm Stadium. They have a pretty good site that has pics of the xcross at: http://www.sdbmwcca.com/events.htm.
Video notes: I've finally figured out how to do the video so it's clearer and can stream so you don't have to wait for an eternity for it to download. I'm going to be working on it this weekend and I'll have several videos. One will be the one you've all seen with the music. The other will be the "raw" one with the wind noise, engine sound, tire squeals(yes there is, I checked) and general small talk. The third will be an outside view of the pro taking the timing course. Look at that one pretty closely. Even though the pro is definitely throwing the car into the turns, the car leans very little, even when applying heavy braking.
I'm also going to see how big a file it makes if I create an online file of all the presentations. I also have had an offer from one of the folks to edit the video onto a CD-R. So I'll keep you all posted.
I followed the link on Brian's last post about SoCal events, followed a few more links, and found a "short-notice" event right here at home! There will be an autocross at the Turner Field gold parking area this Sunday 1/21. It is co-sponsored by the local Porsche, BMW, and Viper clubs. I phoned the Porsche Club contact and he said it's on provided the weather co-operates (heavy rains today, supposed to be clearing by Sun). Loaner helmets will be available and the event is open to non-club members. Look for me in my tri-coat pearlescent '00 V8 sport. Maybe a few more LS's in the ATL area will come along to help make some Bimmers look bad! If you want to coordinate, send e-mail with some contact info.
The notice on the local BMWCCA site can be viewed here.
a worthy question, my friend...I cruise many of these topics for the same reason as others...no matter which car I purchase, there are many desirable cars out there, and I like having info on all of them...a true dream car, imo, would be an Acura RL (please rename it Legend) with a 300 HP V6, great torque at moderate rpm, getting mpg numbers like 24/32...until they make it (HA!) I will search these boards and ask questions and offer what I hope to be worthwhile comments...hence, I admire the Audi, and the LS, and the GS300/400, and the 330/540 BMW, and the Continental, etc., etc., etc. 'nuff said?
Ref: V6 Sport, 22K miles, Aug 99 build I had my car into Gatecity Lincoln Mercury Greensboro NC yesterday and today to install new drivers seat heating element and reprogram PCM per TSB 01-01-05. They got the job done faster than I expected and I'm pleased. They actually sublet the job to a local upholstery shop. My initial reaction to the reprogrammed PCM is very positive. It moves from park to reverse to drive etc faster than it did before. Also I think I notice smoother shifts as it runs thru the gears. To those of you waiting to get it done I'd say go for it.
I have enjoyed reading this board every now and again andI finally decided to buy one. I'm thinking of buying the '01 LS V8 with the Sport package, Advnce Trac and Heated front seats. I would appreciate if anyone would let me know if I'm wasting my money on any of the options or if I'm leaving an option out that I should really consider. Thanks in Advance!
You've got the good parts taken care of. A moonroof might be nice when the weather warms up, if you like the open air. Personally, I don't like the new chromed Sport wheels. The regular Sport wheels have a nicer look to them. If you get the in-dash CD changer you'll lose the cassette player but gain the glove box space. Unless you want zero storage space don't get the console car phone.
My '00 LS8 has all the options you mentioned. I'd recommend them all if you like performance- oriented handling (Sport) and live in snow belt (AdvanceTrac & heated seats). Too bad many of us owners have had problems with the heated seats. I haven't found much use for the SST. Mostly a gimmick. Not much fun without a clutch. Give me a manual tranny any day!
I'd also get a sunroof & in-dash CD. A $36K plus luxury sport sedan has to have these. They should be standard! I'm surprised at how much headroom mine has even with the sunroof. I'm 6' 2" and there is still gobs of room!
Following all the heated seat failure posts, I called in the heating element supplier and reviewed the data. We made a change to the element in January 2000 to address circuit breakage on the leads. Warranty has dropped 98.4% for vehicles built since the change. I am checking to make sure old stock is purged from the service parts depots. You can order your heated seats with confidence. Dick
I have an '01 V8 Sport with AdvanceTrac and moonroof; no heated seats since I live in Texas. The option list for the '01 Sport is rather short, so you don't really have too many choices to make.
The Alpine Sport stereo with the in-dash CD changer is the only sound system available on the '01 Sport, so you don't have to worry about the changer in the glove box. The phone has been discontinued, so you don't have that to consider, either. The new digital phone/RESCU system was supposed to have been available by now, but I haven't heard any details recently.
I'd recommend the moonroof, too; this is my 3rd power moonroof (plus a couple of manual lift-off models) and none of them have ever leaked a drop of water or malfunctioned in any way. Some people don't care for them, but I use mine regularly and really enjoy it.
AdvanceTrac is worth it for me; if it saves your bacon once, it pays for itself. I didn't get the chrome wheels, but I think they look fine on darker-colored cars. I prefer the regular Sport wheels--it's a matter of personal preference.
The only other option of note is the tricoat paint; if you want white or ivory, you have to pay extra (mine's ivory and I really like it.)
There are several dealer-added options available that many of us have. I have the splash guards, and I like them; I also have a Lincoln trunk organizer, which works very well but takes up some room. Other folks have added the trunk net instead; your dealer should be able to provide info on such items. Generally, the Lincoln-supplied accessories seem to fit well and be of high quality.
(DON'T take any sort of paint or interior "protection" packages, though--they're junk and not worth a dime. I'd run from a dealer that tried to sell me that trash.)
Hector, You're making the right choice. I agree completely with jonnylinc's post. I own an '01 V8 Sport. If you live in the snow belt, you might also consider the Lincoln vinyl front floor mats (about $50). They fit and look great and really do a good job of keeping the wet muck off your carpets.
Is this board incredible or what? Where else could you possibly find the kind of info that Mr. Cupka offered in post 110? I've been here for almost a year now and am still amazed at this site.
I own the LS/00 V6 Sport..... when I turn the wheel while making a left or right turn I hear and feel the steering wheel pop as if something inside is catching on something. I took it to the dealership this morning and the mechanic told me that all LS's make that popping sound. I can't believe that a car like this is suppose to make a this sound. Does anyone know this sound? thanks
Thanks to Mr. Cupka, guess I'll stop crossing my fingers when I turn on the heated seat since mine was built 5/00.
Please allow my $.02 on the hand brake: Remember the old style "grab, pull, & twist" handle under the left side of the dash? Of course, the handle would have to be leather covered (with a woodgrain option).
I have a V6 non-sport and no such noise/sound exists on my car. It's time to switch dealers or have them drive a new one and see that there isn't supposed to be that sound!
Here's hoping for good weather in Atlanta this weekend, thomas_l. Have a great time at autocross.
Hector, enjoy your LS V8. Sport package is the way to go, I think AdvanceTrac is worth the $$$. I have an LS on order right now. I also got AdvanceTrak. In addition, I got moonroof and conv pkg, which is std on your 8, but optional on my V6. I joined the 3% club and got the 5Speed manual tranny with the V6. I also got the chrome wheels. I think they look great, maybe even better with the darker colors. Mine will be Autumn Red. There was one Aut red LS at the LS Mania event. It had chrome wheels and it looked fantastic.
And that brings me to heated seats. I haven't ordered those on my car, though I think they would be a great 'nice-to-have' here in Cal. So I thought about ordering them too, but there were so many cars having them break that I though why pay $400 for a headache. But now, having seen post number 110 by Rich Cupka about the new design bringing complaints down over 98%, I think I'll add them to my car. They are a real nice to have for $400 if they work fine, last a long time.
I must respectfully disagree with giowa's statement that the SST is mostly a gimmick.
I realize that I don't recall where giowa lives. I could agree that if you are driving mostly in the plains, or in the city, the SST would not be a critical feature, but for mountain driving I consider it extremely useful.
I don't use SST mode in town or when driving across Kansas or Nebraska, but driving up Highway 1 along the California coast and other similar switchback intense roads, I ALWAYS use the SST mode.
I have driven many thousands of miles of mountain driving, by motorcycle and by automobile, in the Rocky mountains, in the Smoky Mountains, in the Swiss, French, and Italian Alps, in the Dolomites, in the hundreds of other different mountain ranges throughout Italy and Sicily (I lived in Italy for three years). I have driven a couple of thousand miles of mountain driving in the US with our Lincoln LS, with its SST transmission, and I think I'm a pretty good judge of how it compares with the manual transmissions I've had on motorcycles and other automobiles I've driven in the mountains.
The SST is NOT just a gimmick! It is not identical to having a manual transmission, and I don't use it in exactly the same way, but it does provide the really important features of control for mountain driving. I have driven hundreds of miles in second and third gear, where the car NEEDS to be most of the time for a lot of mountain roads. What a pain it would have been to have the automatic shifting up and down when I didn't want it to!
For a LOT of mountain driving situations, the SST is very close to the same as having a manual transmission. I know this. I have a LOT of experience with both. If you expect to drive in the mountains, definitely get the SST!
I was most excited when I got my LS-8 Sport as I envisioned myself up and down shifting around town. I did it for a very short while. Maybe after I get the new reflash I might enjoy it more, but the delay in shifting and particularly in downshifting really turned me off and I found myself not using at all. I haven't used it in over 8 months. I can't say a waste of money as it is not a separate option, but I don't find it at all useful. For those who enjoy it, great. I don't.
joe166: As I said, the SST is not identical to a manual transmission, and I don't use it in all the same ways. Although after training, my transmission doesn't really have such objectionable delays, I still don't usually choose to use it around town. Sometimes I may put it into second gear for a while because traffic is crawling along and I can maintain an even slow speed more naturally that way, but the forte of the SST is for spirited driving through switchback mountain roads. If you don't drive in the mountains, you probably won't use it much.
For me it isn't something I use because I "enjoy it", like some sort of entertainment. It serves a definite purpose for certain kinds of driving (hilly, twisting turning roads), and for that it provides a mode of control not attainable with a pure automatic transmission. When I'm not driving in those kinds of circumstances, I seldom use it.
I posted my question on Friday and never anticipated getting this many responses so quickly. Thanks all!! It really helps getting a second opinion. I was not going to get the sunroof but, based on some of your comments and the fact that I think I'm getting a good deal, I will add it when I order mine tomorrow. I found a dealer in West Chester, PA that will sell me the LS for $300 over invoice. That is a close to $1,200 less than the best deal I had found before. I had read some good thing on the Advance Trac on trade magazines but I wanted to know what owners really thought of the option. Like most of you all I would have preferred a manual 5 speed on the V8 but life is never perfect. Judging by this winter the heated seat will come handy too. I posted my question on Friday knowing that I would order the LS on Saturday. I did not think that I would get advice quick enough. I was wrong. Thanks again for the help!!
I have to agree with reneblanc about the SST. I generally don't use it in town, but it can be a blast on the country lanes. Northern WI and the UP have many wonderful roads with which to use the SST.
Granted, it ain't no manual, but I find it to be a great compromise.
Hi all! I am a proud owner of a V6 sport LS. My LS has about 13,000 miles and is due for an oil change. I believe it is time for me to start using synthetic but first I have a few questions to ask. Which brands do you all suggest? Price? Place of purchase? Frequency of oil changes? Do you guys change your own oil? Any tips on doing so would also be greatly appreciated. What brand filter also? Thanks in advance everybody.
drolds1: I respectfully disagree. I too live in a snowy area with my non-SST transmission. It too readily starts in first, second, or third.
reneblanc: I'm usually in complete agreement with you ... not this time. My non-SST is great fun rowing up and down through the gears on twisty roads. I can tell by ear when an upshift or downshift is in order, and the direction of lever movement is intuitive. (except for the D4-D5 shift which happens at a speed beyond twisties driving)
I kinda like the SST bump-up, bump-down feature, but wouldn't trade the automatic first gear start for it.
This week I had my dealer (Irwin Motors--Laconia, NH) install the latest PCM flash (for the 2001 LS) in my 2000 LS V-8. It seems to have helped the two problems I was having--pinging regardless of the brand of Premium fuel used and slow shifts into reverse. The dealer had problems doing it and ended up keeping the car overnight in order to contact Lincoln but eventually got it done. I was provided with loaner.
When I picked it up it had been washed and vacuumed. Great Dealer with whom I have been doing business for many years!!
I have less than 100 miles on the car since this was done. If any problems show up with time I will post.
Best way to see if SST is valuable is to extensively drive LSs with and without. I've got about 28K miles on my LS8 Sport and have put well over 3K miles on non-Sport LSs (both 6s & 8s). I've driven both types in varying topography. In the end, I've found the non-SST shift pattern to provide nearly as much utility as using the SST. In my Sport I've pulled the lever straight back from D5 to D4 far more times than I have moved it to the right to engage SST. (Caveat: I firmly believe trannys are used to accelerate and brakes to decelerate; though, it can be used to limit speed down steep grades.)
Once in SST mode I often find I have to concentrate on what gear I'm in and how to get to the one I want to go to. I have to look at the dash indicator and think to self which direction makes the gears go up or down. With my manual tranny business car I instinctively "know" what gear I'm in and what gear I want to go to. I don't have to look down or at a dash light indicator. Even with a standard AT floor shifter (e.g., in my '96 Impala SS), I have a better instinctive knowledge of what gear I'm in and what gear I want to go to just by pulling the shift lever back or forth.
Yes, the SST will allow you to do a few things in a few isolated cases slightly better than rowing the standard floor AT shifter. But if I could've saved at least $500 and kept all of the '00 Sport Pkg but the SST, I'd probably dropped SST. (I wouldn't have if the SST also kept the standard shift pattern.)
I've always thought it was interesting that Lincoln won't allow SST LSs to be rowed manually, i.e., not using SST, except into D4. Why can't I keep pulling the lever back into D3, D2, and D1? And still pull to right to engage SST if I'm so inclined? Some manufacturers with SSTs keep the standard pattern and add SST mode.
Did you make the change in January 2000 or January 2001? You mention the former and discuss doing the review after all the posts about failure. I'm thinking the issue seemed to arise in 2000, after January. If January 2000, was this a big problem in the pre-1/00 build vehicles? Has there been a TSB? If not, why not?
Also, ALL of my heated seat failures took place after 1/00. I've had BOTH front driver and passenger elements replaced multiple times. These replacements happened after 1/00. Has my dealer been using bad replacement elements? Did Lincoln have all pre-1/00 elements pulled and destroyed/repaired?
I remember a few earlier comments, but have questions about these options and how they affected folks at the Irvine event.
SST: Not having done a lot of spirited low speed driving, at first glance it would seem that the gas pedal kick-down to first and shifter to second would be pretty awkward on a cone course. Any comments? I wonder if the awkward shifting would be better or worse than somewhat erratic down-shifting in D4 or D5.
Advancetrac: The few times I have "accidentally" activated this on dry pavement, there is a definite drag for a second after regaining traction. Did this have a big imact on course time? Did you think that the control factor outweighed the drag effect?
I do plan to take the advice of others on tire pressure and set it at 35psi (where I normally keep it). I think the 17" Firestones are too squirrelly when really over inflated, yet I want to avoid sidewall roll.
Let's remember who we're dealing with here. I'm sure Dick will explain the heated seat issue but you'll get nowhere debating the usefulness of SST with this person.
One more SST comment. For those of us who live where it snows, there is a "non-performance" use for SST. You can select a 2nd or 3rd gear start. I have found this to be helpful on slippery surfaces. In conjunction with the traction control, this is a distinct advantage that you don't get with the non-SST and many other auto trans cars.
I installed a 12 inch Eclipse sub in the trunk along with a 4 channel 180 watt Eclipse amp. The audio dealer did a great job. The sub was small enough to be mounted vertically on a wood platform covered with the same material as the truck. The amp was small enough to be mounted on the far left hand side of the trunk in that vertical cavity. Since the amp was only about 1.5 inchs deep, it takes no room away from the truck. I also had the dealer drive my front two Infinity Kappa 6.5 perfect components with two of the channles on the amp and bridge the other two for the sub woofer. The rear speakers get driven by the stock radio amp.
The other neat thing that I had tem do was to change connectors on the sub so that they were dual fixed banana type disconnects. This way, when I go to by boat, I just pull out the banana plug and remove the sub woofer box from the trunk and I have the entire trunk for storage.
I decided to put the 12 inch single sub in because of the sound deadening in the car. Also, some people might think putting a big box in the trunk is tacky but how often do you really open the trunk. With the disconnect, if I need the trunk, it's a 30 second operation.
Thanks for the info. I was hoping to use the stock cut-outs in the rear deck where the factory subs go. I wanted to stay away from the "box in the trunk" as with a family I usually need all the room. My wife's main "objection" to the car was the size of the trunk, losing about 3 cu.ft. from our '96 Sable and over 5 from our '91. Maybe I'll just add the amp.......
I now have just over 8,000 miles on my Manual and my next oil change will be to Syn Oil.I have used Amsoil since 1973 with great success.Although I think it is the finest synoil as well as the first(see their web site),Mobil 1 is a great oil and more easily available.Both brands have their own oil filters,with the Amsoil filter having a totally different kind of media - called an "increased depth filter".Castrol Syntec is the cheapest "syn" oil on the market because it is only chemically modified and does not use either of the two commonly used synthetic base stocks that other syn oil makers employ. About two issues ago in Car and Driver,there was mention of Castrol's battle with industry watchdogs over the definition of "synthetic",which has no specific meaning.The syn industry does not want Castrol to use the term "synthetic". So in Synoil, you do get what you pay for. I was at Costco last night and Castrol was 6 bottles for about 25 bucks.That's not worth the difference but some people go by price only.K-Mart and Wal-Mart have good prices on Mobil 1. Be sure to look in your white and yellow pages for Amsoil dealers and check out the 2000 Series if you live in the a cold area.In Socal here,the 10-30 is perfect. I order direct from their warehouse and by the gallon.Outside of warranty, I change oil and filter every six months. Since synoil doesn't make sludge (dino oil has water,wax,and/or asphalt in it), your engine will stay super clean. True synoil is really superior in every way.
I agree with gschawartz. I often, probably too often, use my V6 non-sport transmission in a "manual" mode. It is fun to go up through the gears and after growing up using manuals, my ear tells me when to shift. As Rene says, in traffic a lower gear is easier than using the brakes to travel 50 or 60 feet. And the D5-D4 is a little goofy, but I figured Lincoln has a reason.
John, now I'm a little confused. Did they mount it under the deck? I still may just do the amp.
I use Mobil 1 0w/30w and change oil and filter every 7,500 miles. If you haven't used this weight oil before it seems really weird because it pours like water. You'll like changing the filter on the LS-8. It's right behind the front crossmember. Easy to reach and remove. And I always change my own oil. I look at it as therapy and I can admire the suspension parts while I wait for the oil to drain.
For autocrossing, depending on the way the track is set up, you should be able to leave the car in second gear if you have an automatic.
I did some left-foot braking experimenting yesterday to see what the difference would be in the car's handling characteristics. It does make a difference for the automatic due to being able to finesse the brake and gas at the same time to ease the transition between on-gas and off-gas. Basically if you didn't use your left foot you would have to come completely off the gas to apply the brake, and if you just went to full-throttle you would cause the car to carry the weight more forward than if you kept eased off the gas and eased on the brake. This results in a smoother transition.
That said, if you had a pretty wide right foot I suppose you could apply gas and brake at the same time
Now, as far as Solo II SCCA Autocross classes. This is actually an area that I DO! know something about, having spent a good deal of my misspent youth doing this in a 79 Turbo Capri that was heavily modified (10 psi boost, water injection, lowered, 290 hp). This car was in the same Street Prepared class as Shelby Mustangs, z-28 Camaros, etc. Bigger, heavier, more powerful cars. I used to trounce them due to the lower weight and better balance of the Capri. Used to really tick them off too.
The Stock Class F that the LS would probably fit into should be a really interesting class. There are quite a bit of variation in cars there. We would be able to hold our own against quite a few of them and be smacked by quite a few of them. Here's the SCCA link for classifications for SOLO II: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/classes/stock.html
I agree with giowa that with the SST shift "pattern" I don't have the same natural awareness of what gear the transmission is in that I have with a manual transmission, and like him, I find myself having to check the dash display to verify it.
For some reason I'm not quite sure of, I don't seem to have this problem with my motorcycle, which has an almost identical shift pattern; except I use my left foot to shift. There is something "mechanical" about the process that seems to give me a better awareness of what gear the bike is in without having to look at the LCD gear display.
With manual shift cars, I usually have my hand on the shift knob, and just the position of it tells me immediately what gear the transmission is in.
Still, for the way I use the SST in mountain driving, I haven't had a problem of "gear awareness" under those circumstances. I am using it to maintain engine RPMs and to control the car's speed both up and down hills without riding all over the brakes. Of course, when I need to slow down quickly, I use the brakes! However, when I come out into a straight section of road and want to quickly overtake slower traffic, I pop the transmission back into automatic and let it pick the shift points while I concentrate on watching traffic. Under these conditions, I think the automatic mode picks its shift points as well or better than I can.
gschwartz: In automatic mode, the SST always starts in 1st gear, so this is not a tradeoff. The way I use the SST mode, the car is typically moving along in 5th gear when I come to some twisty-turnie stuff and go to SST mode to shift down to 4th or third. Normally, I only need to use 2nd for REALLY sharp hairpins and/or very steep grades.
When starting up from a stop, I don't normally use the SST. The automatic mode shift points for this transmission (at least on MY car) are almost ideal. Starting up from a stop in SST mode in 2nd is not a problem for me, because I'm not usually drag racing somebody, and even if I did, mashing the accelerator jumps it immediately into 1st anyway. I haven't noticed any objectional delay in this transition. In any case, I think it unlikely that I could shorten acceleration times by using SST mode, because the transmission in automatic mode is so responsive to how far down I've pressed the accelerator that it adjusts the shift points upward just about perfectly.
Had the new software installed on yesterday; Only took the dealer about 1 hour and he gave me no paperwork(???). Can't tell a lot of difference; still got an 3-4 second delay from park to reverse. 3rd gear range seems to be a little longer!!!
Upon further review, I think I'll either leave well enough alone or have a pro do it. After pulling the radio, there must be 100 wires back there! OUCH!
The interesting Car & Driver story you reference on the changing definition of what is now considered synthetic was in the November 2000 issue of C&D. Patrick Bedard's column, page 23, headline: "Synthetic motor oil gets all new semantics." I'd encourage anyone interested in oil or truth in advertising to read it.
You may want to check out the Infinity "Bass Link" subwoofer on their website. It looks like it could mount in the stock location, and be simple to wire.
There is no poping noise in the LS steering. Take it back to the dealer and tell him to find the problem. If he pushes back ask him to demonstrate the same noise on one of his demos. I drive a fair amount in the NC mountains--love the SST.
Rene...I couldn't have said it any better than you have. Gee, you spend a few hours away from this board, and all sorts of interesting exchange takes place! To me, SST is all about "control". I love having the ability to put the car into any gear I want, when I want, and hold it for as long as I want. This is extremely advantageous in the mountains, as you have already stated. In town, and Phoenix is really just one really big "town", the traffic lights every mile really make shifting a manual annoying (IMHO), particularly if you're also trying to carry on a conversation with passengers (Sorry, I can only manage to concentrate on two of the following three things while driving: 1) Surrounding traffic/road; 2) Selecting the appropriate gear; 3) conversing with passengers). If you really must drag race, the fully automatic mode is the fastest way to 60 mph anyway. I have found that the SST transmission provides me with the best of both worlds, control when needed, and a relaxed/refined and smooth ride when I would rather concentrate on 1 and 3 above.
reneleblanc sent me a lengthy e-mail concerning his use of his SST. He mentions not having driven non-SST LSs much. I think that is a key to many of the posts related to SST.
I've put thousands of miles in both SST and non-SST LSs. Spend some time driving both in various topography and in various traffic densities. I think most LS8 SST owners will be able to get nearly similar results, and maintain the sense of control they desire, by manually rowing the gears in the non-SST LS8.
Because Lincoln only allows SST owner to row from D5 to D4, SST owners can't traditionally row our gears using the shifter. We have to move shifter to right and then toggle the shifter back and forth in SST mode. If we could do both, row or toggle, that would allow a better comparison.
Now I'm wondering if I may have discovered one small reason why Lincoln won't keep D5-D4-D3-D2-D1 on left and then have SST on right in the SST cars: if they did, maybe most SST owners would quickly see the difference (really lack thereof) and might prefer to row manually staying on the left side? I wish we SST owners could do both: rowing and toggling.
I heard an ad on the radio that the Lincoln dealer in Kennesaw was having a "$1.00 over invoice" sale on Lincolns this week or weekend...while I realize that some people are hard negotiators, some are poor negotiators and they know who they are...for those people, getting the price of $1 over invoice could be a great deal, cutting thousands off the price without the dickering process...in fact, printing the invoice price from edmunds will tell you if the dealer is straight, or "making up" a new invoice...disregarding for a moment that one negotiates from invoice-up, rather then MSRP-down, still, if a car has a 35K sticker and they sell it to you for 32K, and you hate dickering on price, this could be a good deal for someone like you...worth a look, at least...heard it going to the office on Thursday...let me know if anyone follows up.
See you're hanging out in the S-type area. They didn't like your comment about the S-type and Taurus looking similar from rear. Are you possibly going to buy a luxury sedan or sport sedan or luxury sport sedan some time in near future? Why don't you take the plunge above and tell us what it is like buying and owning the LS? You'll love the car. Don't let those Jag snobs steer you away from the great platform Lincoln is kind enough to let them use!
gschwartz: You said, "drolds1: I respectfully disagree. I too live in a snowy area with my non-SST transmission. It too readily starts in first, second, or third."
As giowa points out, I have no experience with driving a non-SST LS, except for a few laps at LS-Mania where I drove a non-SST, but didn't try to manually intervene with the shifting.
However, I thought that selecting any particular gear with the non-SST trans, say D3, only limits the highest gear attanable to that gear, but that the car will still start in 1st and shift its way up to that selected gear. If this weren't the case, then there wouldn't really be any difference between the non-SST and the SST transmission except for the gear selection lever arrangement.
So, how are you able to start up in 2nd or 3rd gear, for example?
While shifting on twisty, mountainous roads, it is imperative to keep your eyes and mind on the road, particularly when driving in a spirited fashion. I cant imagine moving the gear selector between D2, D3, D4 one position at a time (much less 2 positions) could be done confidently without taking your eyes off the road. With the SST gate, this motion can be quickly and confidently executed without having to take your eyes off the road.
Further, the select shift concept has been around for several years now (and I believe conceived by Porsche as Tiptronic) and employed by a number of manufacturers. Without being "gimmicky", the SST offers the control benefits afforded by manual transmissions without the need of a clutch pedal.
Saw the announcement here about the new PCM reflash. My 6/00 build car has no hesitation going from P to R to D or vice versa, none, and I only notice a slight lag on downshifts at about 20 mph. The question I have is should I have the reflash done, or will it induce any problems (such as an, ugh, lower than 140 mph limiter)?
Any comments, from any owners or the transmission guru?
Comments
Video notes: I've finally figured out how to do the video so it's clearer and can stream so you don't have to wait for an eternity for it to download. I'm going to be working on it this weekend and I'll have several videos. One will be the one you've all seen with the music. The other will be the "raw" one with the wind noise, engine sound, tire squeals(yes there is, I checked) and general small talk. The third will be an outside view of the pro taking the timing course. Look at that one pretty closely. Even though the pro is definitely throwing the car into the turns, the car leans very little, even when applying heavy braking.
I'm also going to see how big a file it makes if I create an online file of all the presentations. I also have had an offer from one of the folks to edit the video onto a CD-R. So I'll keep you all posted.
Brian
The notice on the local BMWCCA site can be viewed here.
Bob
I had my car into Gatecity Lincoln Mercury Greensboro NC yesterday and today to install new drivers seat heating element and reprogram PCM per TSB 01-01-05. They got the job done faster than I expected and I'm pleased. They actually sublet the job to a local upholstery shop. My initial reaction to the reprogrammed PCM is very positive. It moves from park to reverse to drive etc faster than it did before. Also I think I notice smoother shifts as it runs thru the gears. To those of you waiting to get it done I'd say go for it.
Hector
Let us know when you get it.
I'd also get a sunroof & in-dash CD. A $36K plus luxury sport sedan has to have these. They should be standard! I'm surprised at how much headroom mine has even with the sunroof. I'm 6' 2" and there is still gobs of room!
Dick
The Alpine Sport stereo with the in-dash CD changer is the only sound system available on the '01 Sport, so you don't have to worry about the changer in the glove box. The phone has been discontinued, so you don't have that to consider, either. The new digital phone/RESCU system was supposed to have been available by now, but I haven't heard any details recently.
I'd recommend the moonroof, too; this is my 3rd power moonroof (plus a couple of manual lift-off models) and none of them have ever leaked a drop of water or malfunctioned in any way. Some people don't care for them, but I use mine regularly and really enjoy it.
AdvanceTrac is worth it for me; if it saves your bacon once, it pays for itself. I didn't get the chrome wheels, but I think they look fine on darker-colored cars. I prefer the regular Sport wheels--it's a matter of personal preference.
The only other option of note is the tricoat paint; if you want white or ivory, you have to pay extra (mine's ivory and I really like it.)
There are several dealer-added options available that many of us have. I have the splash guards, and I like them; I also have a Lincoln trunk organizer, which works very well but takes up some room. Other folks have added the trunk net instead; your dealer should be able to provide info on such items. Generally, the Lincoln-supplied accessories seem to fit well and be of high quality.
(DON'T take any sort of paint or interior "protection" packages, though--they're junk and not worth a dime. I'd run from a dealer that tried to sell me that trash.)
Good luck with your purchase--it's a GREAT car.
You're making the right choice. I agree completely with jonnylinc's post. I own an '01 V8 Sport. If you live in the snow belt, you might also consider the Lincoln vinyl front floor mats (about $50). They fit and look great and really do a good job of keeping the wet muck off your carpets.
Is this board incredible or what? Where else could you possibly find the kind of info that Mr. Cupka offered in post 110? I've been here for almost a year now and am still amazed at this site.
Joe
Please allow my $.02 on the hand brake: Remember the old style "grab, pull, & twist" handle under the left side of the dash? Of course, the handle would have to be leather covered (with a woodgrain option).
Better make that $.01.
Scott
Hector, enjoy your LS V8. Sport package is the way to go, I think AdvanceTrac is worth the $$$. I have an LS on order right now. I also got AdvanceTrak. In addition, I got moonroof and conv pkg, which is std on your 8, but optional on my V6. I joined the 3% club and got the 5Speed manual tranny with the V6. I also got the chrome wheels. I think they look great, maybe even better with the darker colors. Mine will be Autumn Red. There was one Aut red LS at the LS Mania event. It had chrome wheels and it looked fantastic.
And that brings me to heated seats. I haven't ordered those on my car, though I think they would be a great 'nice-to-have' here in Cal. So I thought about ordering them too, but there were so many cars having them break that I though why pay $400 for a headache. But now, having seen post number 110 by Rich Cupka about the new design bringing complaints down over 98%, I think I'll add them to my car. They are a real nice to have for $400 if they work fine, last a long time.
George
I realize that I don't recall where giowa lives. I could agree that if you are driving mostly in the plains, or in the city, the SST would not be a critical feature, but for mountain driving I consider it extremely useful.
I don't use SST mode in town or when driving across Kansas or Nebraska, but driving up Highway 1 along the California coast and other similar switchback intense roads, I ALWAYS use the SST mode.
I have driven many thousands of miles of mountain driving, by motorcycle and by automobile, in the Rocky mountains, in the Smoky Mountains, in the Swiss, French, and Italian Alps, in the Dolomites, in the hundreds of other different mountain ranges throughout Italy and Sicily (I lived in Italy for three years). I have driven a couple of thousand miles of mountain driving in the US with our Lincoln LS, with its SST transmission, and I think I'm a pretty good judge of how it compares with the manual transmissions I've had on motorcycles and other automobiles I've driven in the mountains.
The SST is NOT just a gimmick! It is not identical to having a manual transmission, and I don't use it in exactly the same way, but it does provide the really important features of control for mountain driving. I have driven hundreds of miles in second and third gear, where the car NEEDS to be most of the time for a lot of mountain roads. What a pain it would have been to have the automatic shifting up and down when I didn't want it to!
For a LOT of mountain driving situations, the SST is very close to the same as having a manual transmission. I know this. I have a LOT of experience with both. If you expect to drive in the mountains, definitely get the SST!
For me it isn't something I use because I "enjoy it", like some sort of entertainment. It serves a definite purpose for certain kinds of driving (hilly, twisting turning roads), and for that it provides a mode of control not attainable with a pure automatic transmission. When I'm not driving in those kinds of circumstances, I seldom use it.
Hector
Granted, it ain't no manual, but I find it to be a great compromise.
reneblanc: I'm usually in complete agreement with you ... not this time. My non-SST is great fun rowing up and down through the gears on twisty roads. I can tell by ear when an upshift or downshift is in order, and the direction of lever movement is intuitive. (except for the D4-D5 shift which happens at a speed beyond twisties driving)
I kinda like the SST bump-up, bump-down feature, but wouldn't trade the automatic first gear start for it.
When I picked it up it had been washed and vacuumed. Great Dealer with whom I have been doing business for many years!!
I have less than 100 miles on the car since this was done. If any problems show up with time I will post.
Once in SST mode I often find I have to concentrate on what gear I'm in and how to get to the one I want to go to. I have to look at the dash indicator and think to self which direction makes the gears go up or down. With my manual tranny business car I instinctively "know" what gear I'm in and what gear I want to go to. I don't have to look down or at a dash light indicator. Even with a standard AT floor shifter (e.g., in my '96 Impala SS), I have a better instinctive knowledge of what gear I'm in and what gear I want to go to just by pulling the shift lever back or forth.
Yes, the SST will allow you to do a few things in a few isolated cases slightly better than rowing the standard floor AT shifter. But if I could've saved at least $500 and kept all of the '00 Sport Pkg but the SST, I'd probably dropped SST. (I wouldn't have if the SST also kept the standard shift pattern.)
I've always thought it was interesting that Lincoln won't allow SST LSs to be rowed manually, i.e., not using SST, except into D4. Why can't I keep pulling the lever back into D3, D2, and D1? And still pull to right to engage SST if I'm so inclined? Some manufacturers with SSTs keep the standard pattern and add SST mode.
Also, ALL of my heated seat failures took place after 1/00. I've had BOTH front driver and passenger elements replaced multiple times. These replacements happened after 1/00. Has my dealer been using bad replacement elements? Did Lincoln have all pre-1/00 elements pulled and destroyed/repaired?
SST: Not having done a lot of spirited low speed driving, at first glance it would seem that the gas pedal kick-down to first and shifter to second would be pretty awkward on a cone course. Any comments? I wonder if the awkward shifting would be better or worse than somewhat erratic down-shifting in D4 or D5.
Advancetrac: The few times I have "accidentally" activated this on dry pavement, there is a definite drag for a second after regaining traction. Did this have a big imact on course time? Did you think that the control factor outweighed the drag effect?
I do plan to take the advice of others on tire pressure and set it at 35psi (where I normally keep it). I think the 17" Firestones are too squirrelly when really over inflated, yet I want to avoid sidewall roll.
Do us all a favor and just ignore him.
The other neat thing that I had tem do was to change connectors on the sub so that they were dual fixed banana type disconnects. This way, when I go to by boat, I just pull out the banana plug and remove the sub woofer box from the trunk and I have the entire trunk for storage.
I decided to put the 12 inch single sub in because of the sound deadening in the car. Also, some people might think putting a big box in the trunk is tacky but how often do you really open the trunk. With the disconnect, if I need the trunk, it's a 30 second operation.
Hope that helps.
True synoil is really superior in every way.
John, now I'm a little confused. Did they mount it under the deck? I still may just do the amp.
"gschwartz: In automatic mode, the SST always starts in 1st gear"
Thanks; I didn't know that.
For autocrossing, depending on the way the track is set up, you should be able to leave the car in second gear if you have an automatic.
I did some left-foot braking experimenting yesterday to see what the difference would be in the car's handling characteristics. It does make a difference for the automatic due to being able to finesse the brake and gas at the same time to ease the transition between on-gas and off-gas. Basically if you didn't use your left foot you would have to come completely off the gas to apply the brake, and if you just went to full-throttle you would cause the car to carry the weight more forward than if you kept eased off the gas and eased on the brake. This results in a smoother transition.
That said, if you had a pretty wide right foot I suppose you could apply gas and brake at the same time
Now, as far as Solo II SCCA Autocross classes. This is actually an area that I DO! know something about, having spent a good deal of my misspent youth doing this in a 79 Turbo Capri that was heavily modified (10 psi boost, water injection, lowered, 290 hp). This car was in the same Street Prepared class as Shelby Mustangs, z-28 Camaros, etc. Bigger, heavier, more powerful cars. I used to trounce them due to the lower weight and better balance of the Capri. Used to really tick them off too.
The Stock Class F that the LS would probably fit into should be a really interesting class. There are quite a bit of variation in cars there. We would be able to hold our own against quite a few of them and be smacked by quite a few of them. Here's the SCCA link for classifications for SOLO II: http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/classes/stock.html
For some reason I'm not quite sure of, I don't seem to have this problem with my motorcycle, which has an almost identical shift pattern; except I use my left foot to shift. There is something "mechanical" about the process that seems to give me a better awareness of what gear the bike is in without having to look at the LCD gear display.
With manual shift cars, I usually have my hand on the shift knob, and just the position of it tells me immediately what gear the transmission is in.
Still, for the way I use the SST in mountain driving, I haven't had a problem of "gear awareness" under those circumstances. I am using it to maintain engine RPMs and to control the car's speed both up and down hills without riding all over the brakes. Of course, when I need to slow down quickly, I use the brakes! However, when I come out into a straight section of road and want to quickly overtake slower traffic, I pop the transmission back into automatic and let it pick the shift points while I concentrate on watching traffic. Under these conditions, I think the automatic mode picks its shift points as well or better than I can.
gschwartz: In automatic mode, the SST always starts in 1st gear, so this is not a tradeoff. The way I use the SST mode, the car is typically moving along in 5th gear when I come to some twisty-turnie stuff and go to SST mode to shift down to 4th or third. Normally, I only need to use 2nd for REALLY sharp hairpins and/or very steep grades.
When starting up from a stop, I don't normally use the SST. The automatic mode shift points for this transmission (at least on MY car) are almost ideal. Starting up from a stop in SST mode in 2nd is not a problem for me, because I'm not usually drag racing somebody, and even if I did, mashing the accelerator jumps it immediately into 1st anyway. I haven't noticed any objectional delay in this transition. In any case, I think it unlikely that I could shorten acceleration times by using SST mode, because the transmission in automatic mode is so responsive to how far down I've pressed the accelerator that it adjusts the shift points upward just about perfectly.
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.asp?ProdId='BASSLINK'
I drive a fair amount in the NC mountains--love the SST.
I've put thousands of miles in both SST and non-SST LSs. Spend some time driving both in various topography and in various traffic densities. I think most LS8 SST owners will be able to get nearly similar results, and maintain the sense of control they desire, by manually rowing the gears in the non-SST LS8.
Because Lincoln only allows SST owner to row from D5 to D4, SST owners can't traditionally row our gears using the shifter. We have to move shifter to right and then toggle the shifter back and forth in SST mode. If we could do both, row or toggle, that would allow a better comparison.
Now I'm wondering if I may have discovered one small reason why Lincoln won't keep D5-D4-D3-D2-D1 on left and then have SST on right in the SST cars: if they did, maybe most SST owners would quickly see the difference (really lack thereof) and might prefer to row manually staying on the left side? I wish we SST owners could do both: rowing and toggling.
"drolds1: I respectfully disagree. I too live in a snowy area with my non-SST transmission. It too readily starts in first, second, or third."
As giowa points out, I have no experience with driving a non-SST LS, except for a few laps at LS-Mania where I drove a non-SST, but didn't try to manually intervene with the shifting.
However, I thought that selecting any particular gear with the non-SST trans, say D3, only limits the highest gear attanable to that gear, but that the car will still start in 1st and shift its way up to that selected gear. If this weren't the case, then there wouldn't really be any difference between the non-SST and the SST transmission except for the gear selection lever arrangement.
So, how are you able to start up in 2nd or 3rd gear, for example?
Further, the select shift concept has been around for several years now (and I believe conceived by Porsche as Tiptronic) and employed by a number of manufacturers. Without being "gimmicky", the SST offers the control benefits afforded by manual transmissions without the need of a clutch pedal.
Any comments, from any owners or the transmission guru?