Stanny, my history is rusty, but I think Kettering was the man who invented the "starterator" and founded Dayton Electric Company, later Delco. Don't recall that he was ever GM president, but I remember that quote also. Sounds more like Alfred Sloan, but don't remember for sure.
Gary, OK if I field this one so you don't have to blow your own horn? akirby, I think gschwartz wants to know if anyone has tried it because he wrote the article in Lincoln Synergy.
Wasn't he one of the people credited with the invention of the spark/coil ignition system? IIRC it was called a Sloan/Kettering ignition for a while. OTOH, I AM at the age where alzheimers starts to show up!!
Most of these conversion kits are not DOT legal, even though they may be genuine HID. They also may not work very well unless the entire bulb/reflector assembly is replaced. The housing plays a big part in directing the beam pattern. If they aren't factory provided and DOT legal I wouldn't try them.
As I've stated before if you live in a place that rains DO NOT use the modification I described for the airbox since it is WAY TOO EASY to hydro-lock your engine.
I will check with a couple of possibilities about getting the club members a discount on the 2002 airbox. You actually only need the bottom piece so I'll see if we can get just that. I'll let you know on parts and availability.
HP gains on the dyno. The Corvette gains were a result of both the K&N filter and the FPK kit, which gives a round K&N filter and a larger and smoother intake tube. If K&N makes a FPK kit for the Aurora then you can expect to see the type of increase you're talking about. Just replacing a stock panel filter with a K&N panel filter won't net you that much. But as the old saying goes, every little bit helps. The effects of changes to the intake and exhaust system is cumulative, so 1-2hp here and 1-2hp there adds up. The trick is trying to find parts that when you add them all in give you the cumulative increase instead of subtracting from it.
fantom: The Continental in its current form dies after 2002. There are no plans to make the LS into a Continental that I am aware of. The Wixom plant makes the Town Car, Continental, LS, and Thunderbird. Those of you going to LS MANIA 2 will get to see quite a few TBirds rolling off the assembly line plus get to see our LSes being built. You will get to see some fascinating stuff at the Wixom plant that are covered up after the car is completed.
Whew! It's nice to see the board having a ton of posts again, but it's sure hard to keep up
Other than being the latest in automotive fads, is there any data supporting their real world "superiority"? Even though I'm beginning to experience some vision problems, The halogen units on my car(s) have seemed to be more than adequate, (especially when I keep them clean).
In my opinion, finding the facts is more productive than speculation. Have you visited their website & sent them an inquiry expressing your concerns? What was their answer?
Brian, thank you for the graphs!! I'll see if I can plug the results into my "cartest" simulator and come up with some theoretical performance results. BTW, you wouldn't happen to have the results in a tabulated form would you?
Kettering came into GM through their buyout of Dayton Engineering Labs Co. in 1916. He developed the starter motor for the 1912 Cadillac, along with the battery ignition system, which allowed for full electrics for the first time. Previously, it was magneto ignition, which provided low voltage at idle.
Sloan came into the picture also in 1916 from the Hyatt Bearing Co. that GM also acquired. Sloan gained most of his power in 1920 when Durant lost control of GM for the final time. He developed GM's organizational plan for du Pont, then chairman of the company. Later Sloan would serve as GM's President and Chairman.
I have also heard the quote, but can not attribute it to anyone in particular. It almost sounds like Charlie ("What's good for GM is good for the U.S. and what's good for the U.S. is good for GM.") Wilson. This quote often becomes mangled, as many quotes are, for the purpose of the writer. I'll keep looking for who spoke the words.
As to the Edsel, well what can be said. It was an attempt to create a new medium priced division for Ford. How where they to know the success of the two wheelbase models from Ford in 1957? Besides, in 1958 the country was in recession, bad time to introduce anything! The styling was rather unique (I'll be nice Mark), but definitely no worse than the 1958 Buicks or Oldsmobiles.
Thanks, Ray. "Dayton Electric Co." didn't sound quite right to me, even as I typed it. And I always thought it was Sloan who said, "What's good for GM . ., etc." And you are so right about "editing" quotes to make a point. I had never read the second half of that quote.
I'm a happy '00 LS V8 Sport, etc. owner. My experience has been wonderful for a car that is approaching (Nov) it's second birthday. For various reasons, I only have 9,000 miles on the car so it's pretty pristine.
I have noticed in recent months a "creaking" and or "squeaking" noise emanating from the rear of the car. If I had to guess I would say it sounds like something related to the suspension? I also notice a "creaking" noise occasionally when I get out of the car. Interestingly, these noises seem to go away after about a half hour of driving. My car does not get driven every day so I wonder if its inactivity could have anything to do with this?
I am overdue for a service visit so I will take up with my dealer but I wanted to get some opinions before I get into it with my dealer.
Thanks for posting these graphs! Quite interesting. I was at first taken aback, as I am used to seeing graphs showing Hp or Torque vs. engine RPM rather than vehicle speed (MPH). Considering the Project car is a non-sport model, it would have been impossible for you to hold a given gear while on the dyno, and thus enable you to measure rpm on the x-axis.
When doing the dyno run, how was the throttle applied? Was is it a gradual application of the gas pedal until WOT was attained after the transmission got into 5th gear, or did you just go immediately to WOT? It's interesting to note that both the HP and Torque seem to spike between 90 and 100 mph.
If the air box for the 2002's is better, why is the HP and torque listed here at Edmunds for the LS V8 the same as other years? - or am I missing something or not seeing it right??
If there are going to be any big changes in '03, hope the info starts coming out soon. Some of us are torn between buying now and waiting. I'd like to wait until fall of 2002, but if the right car and deal came along I might buy almost anything now. Too many great cars available which I can finally afford! From A4 to X-type. Not to mention C240, CTS, ES300, G35, IS300, LS, Passat, S60, and 325i. New car guides coming out talking about all the great changes coming in 2002. Not seeing anything on LS. But seeing that local dealers are discounting LS rather deeply, though not as deeply as Town Car and Continental, and offering great financing. Hard to resist. I can't make up my mind. I don't want to buy something this week and read about something next week that gives me buyers' remorse. Wife and I go from wanting a loaded Maxima SE yesterday, to a discounted Catera or LS today, to a loaded V-6 4WD Passat tomorrow. She wants some luxury and I want some performance. Looking for both but not more than around $30,000 out of pocket.
I can accept your quandary, but it's a useless situation. Buy what interests you at this point, but be fair in your evaluation of all of the mentioned cars. Anything and everything is passe within a short amount of time.
I enjoy my LS because it has no phoney cashe. I personally wouldn't consider German makes because of dealer issues, there aren't any where I live! I also know that VW/Audi are suffering from supplier problems that effect their quality.
It sounds as though you are still in the depths of decision making, not having narrowed it down the list much. Try a V-8 LS, and you will surprise yourself with the performance, balance and handling.
That said, if you are wavering because of future models, keep your present car. You will constantly have buyer's remorse otherwise! Like playing in the Stock Market and worrying each and every day, if that's how you're living, then get out of the market and buy CD's. If you're thinking about buying a computer, wait 18 months and the newer one will blast the previous "state of the art" one! Trade in your stereo with "Surround Sound" for the newer one with Dolby 5.1 sound atmosphere. Should I mention digital TV?
I know that I'm not of much help, but I know perfection is waiting around the corner. Me, I'm at peace with my decision buying my LS and enjoy it completely. It has been an absolutely fantastic car and has never left me wanting for more.
I am curious though, since I paid more than $30,000.00 out of pocket, what are you looking for on this board? As a rule, we seem to be satisfied with our purchases and will speak in favor of a similar decision, but we recognize differences all the same. Your stated concern is the viability of the marque, with evolving clarification as to you purchasing expectations. There is no magic bullet here, try them all and make a decision for yourself.
For the most part, we are savvy enough to understand the nuances of the market and marketplace. We don't need to be reminded of the many items you have pointed out. Perhaps it's time the you either fish, or cut bait. If the Caddy CTS is for you, buy it.
packv12... You're likely right. Decisions, decisions. I'm not good timing the stock market. Cadillace is tempting. Catera now due to its deep discounts. And I can use a couple thousand dollars worth of GM Credit Card dollars to buy Catera or CTS. Too bad Ford killed off its credit card. GM card always makes me at least look at any and all GM products. My wife was fascinated by the $11,000 off Continentals and 0.9% financing. Now if I could just get $11,000 off an LS, six or eight, I'd take it!
After reading the literature on the web site, I get the impression that HID lights, at least as they are now, may be a bad idea. The large amount of blue that they emit is actually undesireable in inclement weather conditions. Lights tending towards the yellow part of the light spectrum are better under the same conditions. It sounds like the halogen ECE spec lights with some yellow built in would be a great upgrade.
While this may not be of much interest to those looking for information about the LS, many here are interested in Lincoln's future. In that light, the following link is to a Reuters news article dated today where Jac Nasser formally announced the Lincoln Aviator (previously referred to as the "Baby Navigator").
lolaj42: Test procedure was to let the car get the dyno rollers rolling in idle, then floor it until it hit redline or ran out of oomph. The spikes in the HP graphs are the transmission shifts. Top HP is around 113 mph while peak torque is around 110 mph. The car never went into 5th gear but stayed in 4th as evidenced by the spikes. 1st gear shift is the first hump, the other shifts are more noticeable.
Okay, since I've gotten tired of being asked if there was a Borla sound file somewhere that everyone could here, I've finally figured out how to record something that actually sounds like something. Though not after almost throwing my laptop in the garbage can. Luckily my trusty Kodak DC290 digital camera records sound.
So here it is in it's unadulterated, uneditted form. A LS-8 with Borla exhaust. The file format is a .WAV. It was recorded approximately 1 foot from the exhaust tips. Engine start-up, idle and winging the engine. I think I've shortened my lung life about a 1 and a half breathing exhaust fumes, but everything looks really pretty now
Go to www.llsoc.com/holdingpen/Borlasound.wav for playback.
Sounds like a Borla system. Very realistic. How about a drive by and acceleration sound file? Start the acceleration recording about 30-40 feet ahead of the LS and continue the recording just past 1-2 shift. A drive by recording with full throttle on an open road would do for that one.
I think the factory change only applies to the V6, hence it's improved HP specs, but can be retrofitted to earlier V8s. A little disclaimer here: I haven't been very involved in this topic because I'm satisfied with my V8's performance as it is. Although I'd sure go for a factory-built, bolt-on improvement. Haven't looked into K&N because, by their own admission, their product will (theoretically, at least) allow more dirt to enter an engine than a stock paper filter. I drive high miles, and engine longevity is my #1 priority.
Hope someone will jump in here and correct me if I'm giving you some bum information.
Does anyone know when the Jaguar's S-type is scheduled to recieve the bigger engines and are there any scheduled increases due in the Lincoln's LS? Thanks for the help.
Jag has announced the bigger engines for 2003 and Lincoln has more power in store for 2003 as well. No specifics from Lincoln as to how the power will be added but I think it's a safe bet that Jag and Lincoln will continue to share blocks for cost reduction. The other question is whether the LS gets some version of VVT in addition to the displacement increase. Ls1bmw0 has seen the 2003 and has assured us that we will be pleased with the results.
I'll need an answer by the end of this week to this question so the club and Lincoln can brainstorm the suggestions. We (Lincoln and LLSOC) want to know, what would make LS MANIA 2 an event not to be missed? What would you like to see on the tour that will make you go "Wow!"?
If there is a chance to see future plans for the LS, would you be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement, if Lincoln goes along with it? Not sure if we would be able to swing this but we are interested in your feedback.
My V-6 sounds louder. Probably because a fewer # of cylinders per bank. The only disappointment might be the lack of lots of noise from the exhaust when doing radical downshifts with the Getrag. I expected a real raspy downshift note as the rpm's dropped. But I think the X-Pipe adds sound on acceleration and attenuates on deceleration.
Does anyone know if there were changes (minor or major) to the '02 3.9 cooling system? Can't imagine the same problem doesn't exist on the '00-01 LS - mine hasn't overheated, but that baby puts out some pretty hot waves from underneath; sitting at idle in Hotlanta's 90 degrees temps lately...
I have had no problems with the 2001 V-8 overheating, in fact on 110 degree days the temp gauge does not edge pass the 1/2 way mark even under a load with all the accessories running full blast.
I recently went for a hard drive in the mountains at 105 degrees with A/C going full blast with no indication of the gauge moving past the 1/2 mark.
According to a BON article "Part of Wixom's slowdown is attributable to a faulty cooling fan module supplied to Ford for the 2002 Thunderbird. The module can fail and cause an underhood engine fire". Coming from BON I don't know how accurate this information is.
My wife and I just finished a 1600 mile round-trip run over a long weekend and our LS8 was a superb freeway cruiser. The many positions offered by the telescoping steering column and the fully adjustable seat allowed me to move around when I tired of any one set up. The car tracks very well even in stiff cross winds, and the road feel is present even though the suspension soaked up rough spots well. Keeping the car from creeping up to "lose your license" speeds was the only worry.
The other trip was 300 miles in the North Georgia mountains last weekend. The two-lane blacktop roads with plenty of curves gave the chance to enjoy the roadholding and balance. The surge from 50 to 80 mph was very useful for passing.
While I am not an expert judge of cars or a real go-fast racer, I sure appreciate the aplomb this car has over such a wide spread of conditions. It inspires confidence.
I always put the steering wheel as close to the dash and as high as possible and leave it there. I have the convenience package but I've never used a "memory function" if there is one. For me, the wheel doesn't go "up" enough, and I am only 5'10". I can't imagine driving with the steering wheel that vertical ("down"). Of course, I don't want it like a school bus either. But I just wanted to see if anyone else would like more adjustability "upward" and "inward".
On the way to work this morning I ran over something, not sure what it was, but it the car sure did take quite a jolt. It felt like I hit a big rock. The LS never waviered but I think I knocked her out of alignment, she pulls to the right at high-speeds. I couldn't see any damage to the rims or body panels. I'm taking in tomorrow for an alignment and wheel balance. I just hope I didn't damage any of the front-end components.
I thought it was the fan system! Besides the hydraulic pump and the hydraulic fan "motor", it has a module that modulates hydraulic pressure and pressure on/off, and sensors detect temperature, etc and whether the A/C is on also. Pretty complicated way to blow some air if you ask me. Any lower sound levels attained are ,of course, negated by the Borla. I might as well put on a clutch fan now.
I have an intermittant problem with the lights on my radio (2000 LS/w in dash 6 CD) not working, it appears to be related to the door delay that also dose'nt work at the same time. I read a similar post some time ago but I never saw a diagnosis and I did'nt have the problem then. I hav'nt had a chance to get to the dealer. Does anyone know the cause and remedy. Thanks for any comments.
I had a similar problem only my steering wheel controls didn't work right either. It turned out to be the radio. The radio said that the switch was bad. After my dealer replaced the switch and the radio said the switch was still bad, they replaced the radio and everything's been fine since.
Thanks for your response, my wheel control also malfunctions when this happens, half of the station selector changes to a volume control. Was your problem recent, I was hoping to find a TSB and limit this to one visit
Comments
jnowski: I was thinking the same thing.
The dyno graphs have been posted. Here is the link.
http://www.llsoc.com/holdingpen/dynographs.htm
As I've stated before if you live in a place that rains DO NOT use the modification I described for the airbox since it is WAY TOO EASY to hydro-lock your engine.
I will check with a couple of possibilities about getting the club members a discount on the 2002 airbox. You actually only need the bottom piece so I'll see if we can get just that. I'll let you know on parts and availability.
HP gains on the dyno. The Corvette gains were a result of both the K&N filter and the FPK kit, which gives a round K&N filter and a larger and smoother intake tube. If K&N makes a FPK kit for the Aurora then you can expect to see the type of increase you're talking about. Just replacing a stock panel filter with a K&N panel filter won't net you that much. But as the old saying goes, every little bit helps. The effects of changes to the intake and exhaust system is cumulative, so 1-2hp here and 1-2hp there adds up. The trick is trying to find parts that when you add them all in give you the cumulative increase instead of subtracting from it.
fantom: The Continental in its current form dies after 2002. There are no plans to make the LS into a Continental that I am aware of. The Wixom plant makes the Town Car, Continental, LS, and Thunderbird. Those of you going to LS MANIA 2 will get to see quite a few TBirds rolling off the assembly line plus get to see our LSes being built. You will get to see some fascinating stuff at the Wixom plant that are covered up after the car is completed.
Whew! It's nice to see the board having a ton of posts again, but it's sure hard to keep up
Brian
http://lighting.mbz.org/faq/
Makes me want to get my hands on some European spec. bulbs.
Sloan came into the picture also in 1916 from the Hyatt Bearing Co. that GM also acquired. Sloan gained most of his power in 1920 when Durant lost control of GM for the final time. He developed GM's organizational plan for du Pont, then chairman of the company. Later Sloan would serve as GM's President and Chairman.
I have also heard the quote, but can not attribute it to anyone in particular. It almost sounds like Charlie ("What's good for GM is good for the U.S. and what's good for the U.S. is good for GM.") Wilson. This quote often becomes mangled, as many quotes are, for the purpose of the writer. I'll keep looking for who spoke the words.
As to the Edsel, well what can be said. It was an attempt to create a new medium priced division for Ford. How where they to know the success of the two wheelbase models from Ford in 1957? Besides, in 1958 the country was in recession, bad time to introduce anything! The styling was rather unique (I'll be nice Mark), but definitely no worse than the 1958 Buicks or Oldsmobiles.
Apologies for all this off-topic stuff.
I'm a happy '00 LS V8 Sport, etc. owner. My experience has been wonderful for a car that is approaching (Nov) it's second birthday. For various reasons, I only have 9,000 miles on the car so it's pretty pristine.
I have noticed in recent months a "creaking" and or "squeaking" noise emanating from the rear of the car. If I had to guess I would say it sounds like something related to the suspension? I also notice a "creaking" noise occasionally when I get out of the car. Interestingly, these noises seem to go away after about a half hour of driving. My car does not get driven every day so I wonder if its inactivity could have anything to do with this?
I am overdue for a service visit so I will take up with my dealer but I wanted to get some opinions before I get into it with my dealer.
Thanks for your help in advance.
-Chris
Thanks for posting these graphs! Quite interesting. I was at first taken aback, as I am used to seeing graphs showing Hp or Torque vs. engine RPM rather than vehicle speed (MPH). Considering the Project car is a non-sport model, it would have been impossible for you to hold a given gear while on the dyno, and thus enable you to measure rpm on the x-axis.
When doing the dyno run, how was the throttle applied? Was is it a gradual application of the gas pedal until WOT was attained after the transmission got into 5th gear, or did you just go immediately to WOT? It's interesting to note that both the HP and Torque seem to spike between 90 and 100 mph.
I enjoy my LS because it has no phoney cashe. I personally wouldn't consider German makes because of dealer issues, there aren't any where I live! I also know that VW/Audi are suffering from supplier problems that effect their quality.
It sounds as though you are still in the depths of decision making, not having narrowed it down the list much. Try a V-8 LS, and you will surprise yourself with the performance, balance and handling.
That said, if you are wavering because of future models, keep your present car. You will constantly have buyer's remorse otherwise! Like playing in the Stock Market and worrying each and every day, if that's how you're living, then get out of the market and buy CD's. If you're thinking about buying a computer, wait 18 months and the newer one will blast the previous "state of the art" one! Trade in your stereo with "Surround Sound" for the newer one with Dolby 5.1 sound atmosphere. Should I mention digital TV?
I know that I'm not of much help, but I know perfection is waiting around the corner. Me, I'm at peace with my decision buying my LS and enjoy it completely. It has been an absolutely fantastic car and has never left me wanting for more.
I am curious though, since I paid more than $30,000.00 out of pocket, what are you looking for on this board? As a rule, we seem to be satisfied with our purchases and will speak in favor of a similar decision, but we recognize differences all the same. Your stated concern is the viability of the marque, with evolving clarification as to you purchasing expectations. There is no magic bullet here, try them all and make a decision for yourself.
For the most part, we are savvy enough to understand the nuances of the market and marketplace. We don't need to be reminded of the many items you have pointed out. Perhaps it's time the you either fish, or cut bait. If the Caddy CTS is for you, buy it.
This particular page of that site is worth a grin.
http://lighting.mbz.org/news/
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010819/business_autos_ford_thunderbird_dc.html
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010819/n19193475.html
So here it is in it's unadulterated, uneditted form. A LS-8 with Borla exhaust. The file format is a .WAV. It was recorded approximately 1 foot from the exhaust tips. Engine start-up, idle and winging the engine. I think I've shortened my lung life about a 1 and a half breathing exhaust fumes, but everything looks really pretty now
Go to www.llsoc.com/holdingpen/Borlasound.wav for playback.
Brian
Thanks for the sample !
Hope someone will jump in here and correct me if I'm giving you some bum information.
We (Lincoln and LLSOC) want to know, what would make LS MANIA 2 an event not to be missed? What would you like to see on the tour that will make you go "Wow!"?
If there is a chance to see future plans for the LS, would you be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement, if Lincoln goes along with it? Not sure if we would be able to swing this but we are interested in your feedback.
Thanks for the quick responses in advance!
Brian
I have had no problems with the 2001 V-8 overheating, in fact on 110 degree days the temp gauge does not edge pass the 1/2 way mark even under a load with all the accessories running full blast.
I recently went for a hard drive in the mountains at 105 degrees with A/C going full blast with no indication of the gauge moving past the 1/2 mark.
Tom
The other trip was 300 miles in the North Georgia mountains last weekend. The two-lane blacktop roads with plenty of curves gave the chance to enjoy the roadholding and balance. The surge from 50 to 80 mph was very useful for passing.
While I am not an expert judge of cars or a real go-fast racer, I sure appreciate the aplomb this car has over such a wide spread of conditions. It inspires confidence.
K & N Filter - I took mine out the other day and was surprised at the amount/size of bugs and debris in the filter.
Borla - I'm strongly considering one...
http://www.myoc.com/ocmetro/stories/story10.html