Chrysler 300M

sdmike2

I have a request. Could you take a picture of your clock console area? With the exception of the Discount Dash kit all of the kits that I've seen cover only the vents...not the entire clock area. I can see that yours might be a little different, but I can't see all of it. My second request is a close up picture of the edges. Is the kit real wood? Is it formed or do you bend it? Does it cover the whole piece or can you see black edges?

Thanks

uxca300m

I like to use the auto stick to brake and figured it would extend the life of the brake pads and rotors but then started to think that maybe I'm putting extended wear on the tranny. As I have bought and not leased the car and plan on keeping it I'm wondering if I should forget the downshifting and just replace the brake stuff as required.

sdmike2

I'll be a little late, but I should be there for a change. )

uxca300m

My Sony Mavica doesn't take good flash pictures at night so I'll take a couple of close ups tomorrow and post them. The clock console does not cover the whole area unfortunately and that is the only thing I didn't like about this kit. I don't know why Josuha tree didn't incorporate this into their design. The photos I will send tomorrow will show the edges. The parts are laser cut and contured so that you really can't tell they were after market installed and the edges are not realy visible unless you want to get out a magnifing glass. The kit is real wood as noted on Joshuas Tree's web site and match the colour and texture of the existing factory trim exactley.
The kit comes flat but becomes very flexilbe after getting it up to 90 degrees, so fitting it to any contures is no problem.

ruski

easyrider300m

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20020109/ts/daimlerchrysler_outlook_5.html

kosh_2258

I use the autostick to slow down from time to time in combination with the brakes, but not as a habit. I do it primarily when I need to get the speed hauled down in a hurry.
I mostly use the autostick when I'm on the back roads and want to downshift to keep RPM's up for acceleration.

The trans is very likely designed to accept some of the backpressure downshifting creates in the torque converter. The energy has to go someplace, and much of it is absorbed in the trans fluid and turned into heat, and the rest passed to the engine and is taken up in compression braking.

The question comes down to how aggressively do you downshift and how often? The more aggressively you do it the more heat generated, the more often you do it the more often the seals are stressed.

I recall the question was asked sometime back in one of the major car magazines and the answer was to the effect of: Which is cheaper and easier repair, brakes or a transmission?

The answer is pretty obvious. Assuming the rotors aren't damaged or warped, it's way cheaper and easier to replace brake pads than repair a damaged tranny.

bigmike5

I've had the M for 3 1/2 years, and I do down shifting routinely for cornering, off ramps, and to slow down into lights. I rarely use it for my normal driving pattern. Knock on wood, but I have had no problems in 39K miles. I changed the tranny fluid at 25K, and just did the differential fluid last month. Like anything else, if you service it well, and don't abuse the use I think it will work as well and as long as downshifting with the clutch and gears would in any car.

fuzzywuzzy

HP was measured different back then too. Those cars did not have the 300+ HP of todays cars. The engine in the M is really good, great in fact, the problem is in the tranny, gearing, & drivetrain. A dyno proves this. The stock M doesn't even get 180 of that HP to the ground. Add the weight of the M to that, & it's a big letdown.

mmcccm

If I hadn't had the requirement of needing a four-door car, I would've given serious thought to buying a Ford SVT Lightning (F-150 with supercharged V-8, 350 HP, 400 ft/lbs, upgraded handling and braking pieces) instead of the 300M I bought.

Personally, I think a pickup like this would be a hoot, because you have a bed to haul stuff in, and you can still haul even when the bed is empty.

-MMCCCM

mmcccm

The old 300s were rated using gross HP (no accessories, open headers), which inflated the ratings compared to the net HP figures used today.

HP is now measured with all accessories and stock exhaust. I've seen a figure somewhere that said that if the 300M's engine were rated the old way, it would come in at around 350 HP. I don't know how accurate that is, but it seems reasonable to me.

-MMCCCM

laurasdada

Nice looking M!
I'm a little jealous of some of your M pix (denver, sdmike) as it looks like your panel gaps are much tighter than on my '99 M. The driver's side is ok, but the gaps on the passenger size certainly aren't Lexus-like!
6 months of warranty and payments left!

scotian

they wouldn't have given us AutoStick.

blonda

I actually prefer the way JTree does their clock console. Seems like the ones covering the entire area would be a little glarey when the sun hits it. I also think it looks better IMO. Now if they would only do the pieces for the existing wood trim I would order it. (I really like the burl).

sdmike2

You should email discount dash and see if they'll sell the dash parts in pieces. Then you could maybe get the burlwood overlay for the large dash piece. They're the only people that I've seen that sell an overlay for that piece. My guess is that they won't break up a kit, but you never know if they have a few miscellaneous pieces in the warehouse that they might sell separately. Personally, I'm leaning toward the Joshua Tree kit just because its a guaranteed factory match for the luxury group.

kosh_2258

Just for sake of argument, if you assume that an engine loses 20% of it's horsepower to various things before it gets to the wheels a 300hp motor is down to 240hp by the time the power gets to the ground. So working backwards it would appear that todays 300M actually puts out more horsepower (about 312hp gross assuming 20% loss) than 300's of the past on a LOT smaller displacement.

Where the big difference lies is in the available torque. No way can 3.5 liters(214cid) match the torque of a 426 or 440cid engine. It was the gobs of torque that allowed us older folks to vaporize rubber into clouds of smoke back then. It was also the torque that provided that feeling of more power than in todays cars.

But some of that torque advantage is offset today by the cars being smaller, lighter, and having much more efficient, lower friction drive trains then back in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

hazdaz

... I know I have read about a Car-Bra that some of you all have applied onto your 300Ms thats made of clear plastic. It was the first I have ever heard about that and thought it was a great idea, and now that I have purchased a new car (taking delivery on Saturday) I would be very interested in seeing if I can apply that film to my new car - sorry guys its not a 300M (even though I have liked the 300M from the day it was introduced). I was going to try finding the name myself in this topic, but with over 12000, I get the fealing that it might just be easier to ask.
If anyone can let me know what the film is called, it would be appreciated. Also, do you guys know of any negatives in using the film?

Thanks,
HAZDAZ

intrepidspirit

just a couple of comments...first, as a long-time resident of Canada, downshifting a manual transmission was a routine procedure in winter conditions as it gave greater control of the car when bringing it to a stop. I don't know if that is still true with FWD and autostick, but if it is, I would take a chance on tranny wear to achieve greater safety. Secondly, however, I don't think downshifting is a very effective way of reducing speed with the 300M -- I think the engine compression is too high for downshifting to be very effective.

Just my $.02....

silverbullet4

The original '55 300 was based on a Chrysler model called the Windsor, being lighter than the New Yorker or Imperial. The things were built by hand. An Imperial grill was fitted (and I think the taillights, too). Chrysler lost money on every one, but what a car! The hemi engine was around 330 ci, or maybe that was the '56. It had a 2 speed Powerflight automatic, so the high torque was needed. The '56 introduced the 3 speed Torqueflight.

Silver

fuzzywuzzy

Here's are some sites:

http://www.clearbra.com

http://www.clearbra.net

It's all basically the same stuff. It a clear plastic that 3M makes.

heda

Have a 2000 300M...
Love my car!!!
Hate my tires....
GY Eagle LS...2255517
The car has 27,300 miles and the tires are shot...
What to do???
Anyone with any suggestions..Thanks..
Most of my driving is highway...
Heda

mboomgarden

What I used: http://www.invinca-shield.com/main.htm

sdmike2

getting rave reviews...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/yokohama/yo_avidt4.jsp

mboomgarden

Looks like an excellent tire. Just a word of warning, though--it carries a T speed rating (118 mph). If you have a PHG-equipped M and ever contemplate exceeding that speed, this is not the tire for you.

rat618

Considering a 300M Special but living in Central MN the 245/45ZR18 96Y unidirectional Michelins are
an issue during the winter. I asked the dealer about swapping for something more all season and he tried but was rebuffed by both Chrysler and Michelin. They both say buy new tires yourself.

I know they market the 300M special as a performance car but it hardly matches up to my SLP engineered Firehawk. Being new to winter driving am I being unreasonable about this issue? Since Chrysler feels the need to put a disclamer in their brochure about the tires in icy conditions I don't think so. BTW Michelin rates these tires as
a 3 on a 1 to 10 scale for winter driving.

rogor2k

I have the Yokohame Avid T4s and am very happy with them, ESPECIALLY for the price. I have about 3K on them and thay are a much better match for the car than the Goodyears ever were. Add a 60,000 mile tread wear warranty, and you have a lot of bang for the buck.


Haven't seen you here before. Check out the 300M Enthusiasts Club at http://www.300mclub.org. We may well have a Club meet somewhere near you this summer where you can come and swap stories.

sdmike2

true, but i believe that in 2000 the phg m's had 16 inch tires. heda's 17s imply non-phg

sdmike2

Here is the product spec guide for the 2000 M:

http://us.media.daimlerchrysler.com/special/2000kit/pdf/chry_300MSP.pdf

indydriver

"27,300 miles and my tires are shot" "most of my miles are on the highway". Baloney. I drive my car for business putting a relatively high percentage of highway miles (still, only 50%) and I got 53,000 miles out of my OEM GY's with NO PROBLEMS. If I lived in a no snow climate, I could have gotten another 10,000 miles out of the tires. After shopping everything for two months, it became obvious that the best VALUE (do I need to define it?) was to put another set of GY LS's on it. I paid $105/tire with lifetime rotation and balance at Big O Tire. I now have 25,000 miles on my SECOND set of GY LS's and, just like the first set, they are performing flawlessly.

If you want the highest possible skid pad numbers, you need another tire. If you want the lowest $/mi with a reasonable compromise between durability and all-season performance, you can't beat the OEM tires. That's a fact.

sdmike2

Maybe someone shot Heda's tires.

You may be in the minority here on respect for the OEM goodyears. I hear way more bad than good on the two boards i frequent.

beach15

While I have nothing against your own personal decision to put another set of GY's on, I do have a simp,e question for you. Even if you had one set that was flawless (defect-wise I mean here), why would you buy another set if you knew there were quieter, better performing, equal-lasting tires out there that in some cases, are even cheaper? Biggest here though, why in the world would you want to continue on with the excessive road noise of the Eagle LS's? I know you have your reasons, but is one of them liking road roar?

As for the GY Eagle Ls noise, I know for a fact that it's not just an issue on 300M's. Yes, it is magnified by the lack of proper noise insulation, but many, many other drivers and professional reviewers of cars with this tire always seem to comment on the noise. Olds Intrigue owners sound just like those with M's that have the badyears, Car & Driver commented on the noticeable tread noise provided by the Eagle LS's on the Mitsu Galant and MB S-class they tested, etc., etc..

My point, there are better treads for your car out there unless you really like the crapyears.

End of story!

indydriver

Like I said, for me, its a value equation. You state there are "better treads for your car out there", but it depends on your definition of better. I spent two months looking at all tires and all sources (and I mean ALL). I did limit my search to the OEM size. Admittedly, this is an unusual size which limits the field of replacement tires. But I found at least 7 or 8 choices so I did not feel forced into buying more Goodyears. If you know of a tire that is less than $105/tire with lifetime rotation and balance, that out performs the LS AND lasts longer, I

blonda

I bought the car with 11K miles on it and they were in pretty good shape. I didn't have any of the "shimmy" problems even after having them rotated at 13K. But when it got to around 20K the shimmy started. (You could just watch the steering wheel go back and forth and any speed over 35 miles). At that point I had already decided to dump them so didn't bother to rotate again. By 29K they were pretty much goners on the front -- wear bars showed up very quickly and the back one's weren't too far behind. I do drive my car kinda hard, but I was suprised at how quick they wore out.

I have 245/45/17 Kumho Esta Supras and I'm pretty happy with them, but I really don't expect them to last much longer than the Goodyears either.
:-(

blonda

by the way...my Kumho's were $105 each and also had liftime rotation and balance, etc with Discount tire. If you look on Tire Rack they are rated (last I looked anyway) as the 3 top rated Ultra High Performance tire. Granted they are not OEM size...but I think they look better anyway.

indydriver

I will be happy to consider purchasing it. However, if you have exceptional service out of a product, why not buy it again? If you are a regular, long time reader of this board, you almost have to conclude that Goodyear intentionally puts 50% defective product on the road and does not stand behind its product. I think the truth is closer to the idea that a lot of people like the 300M styling, buy it to play 'boy-racer', take a heavy, understeering four door sedan and scrub the tread off the tires.

As far as noise is concerned, it may be noiser than some. But to me, it is certainly not objectionable. I guess you must always drive with the stereo off and the sunroof closed, eh?

So, for those out there looking for replacement tires or looking at buying a 300M for the first time, don't be put off by all the hyperbole, name calling and simple story telling that you read on this board.

indydriver

I think we have an expectations problem here. If you drive HARD, 29,000 miles is excellent durability for any tire. You "even rotated them at 13K miles". Nice of you. Most tire stores recommend every 6,000 miles rotation and balance. I do this religiously and get an alignment when I replace the tires. If you give your tires less maintenance than this, 29,000 miles is reasonable. Like I said, my priority is not "top 3 ultra high performance". Betcha don't get 29,000 out of those tires.

blonda

Since I didn't own the car until 11K, as I mentioned, how could I have rotated them any sooner? I have no idea if the previous owner had rotated them.

I didn't rotate the Goodyears again because of all the horror stories I heard about trouble after rotations. I have had the Kumho's for 10K now and they have already been rotated TWICE. Besides, I don't expect them to last more than 30K because High Performance tires have lower tread ratings.

indydriver

I misunderstood your previous post.

300michael

My critera was a little different. I wanted the best performing tire (mostly dry but able to handle wet almost as well), with quiet ride. Sure my Bridgestone S-03's will not last as long as the LS's but they are far better handling, in fact they handle better in the rain then the LS's did on dri pavement. I can also drive with the radio off. To me it was worth the extra $60 a tire. No more noise, squeeling tires around corners, better braking, and handling. Sometimes it is better to spend a little extra on a better product, It may save you from hitting, or being hit by somebody. caa-ching, caa-ching (2cents).

russklass

Reminds me when we went to accept delivery of a new Honda ES for my wife a number of years ago.
The dealer handed us a warning notice from Honda stating that the OE Michelin tires were not suitable for dtiving on snow.
Guess what? It was snowing like crazy that day!
We drove to a tire store, slipping and sliding all the way, and had a set of winter treads mounted. The car was literally transformed, like the roads had cleared and dried.
I fired off a strong letter to Honda about delivering a car in Buffalo with summer-only tires.
Honda replied with a phone call offering to replace the tires. We waited until Spring, and Honda supplied a new set of Michelin all-season tires, and even paid for the mounting and balancing.
Honda no longer equips cars destined for this area with non snow-rated tires.

kosh_2258

I know the history of the line and such. No question that those cars needed the torque to get those 2 tons of car moving. But that's my point.
The torque from those V8's was way more important and it's what made them move off the line the way they did. The HP came in to keep them moving and overcome the drag and friction. Keep in mind those cars got 8 or 9 MPG if you were lucky. Today you get in the low 20's with a similar gross HP on over 100CI less displacement.

I'd be willing to bet that if you put an early 60's 300 up against a new 300 that while the old one would take the new off the line, by the time you passed 45-50mph the new one would be walking away and continue to expand it's lead from there.

kosh_2258

The reason the standard tires are what they are is because there aren't a whole lot of Z rated all season/winter tires out there. Michelin JUST introduced the Pilot Sport A/S tire and it doesn't come in the size the Special uses.
There's only going to be 8500 built so how many are going to be sold in places where the snow is an issue? I wouldn't expect DC to compromise the tires on a car they're selling as a performance vehicle that can do 150+.

Honda pulled a bone head move for sure with the Accord tires. But then how many stock Accords can do 150+ to justify a non-all season tire to begin with?

denverm

Mid-model-year-2000, the PHG's changed from 16" wheels to 17" wheels. My 2000 PHG M, which I think was built in April, 2000, has the 17" razorstars. Because PHG was my one must-have option, and because all the literature said that PHG came with 16" wheels, it took a fair amount of persuasion by my dealer to convince me that my car had BOTH PHG and 17" wheels.
I suspect (just a guess) that Michelin didn't originally make the V rated tires in the 17" size, and that's why Chrysler put 16" wheels on the PHG cars in '99 and the start of '00. Maybe that's what's happening now with the Special and those summer only tires . . . .

sdmike2

How did your dealer finally convince you that the car had PHG?

Big Red's Home Page with 300M Info Links

ceikost

When you downshift you are using compression for braking so the higher the compression the better.

scotian

http://www.xpel.com/

scotian

It significantly slows down my car when I do it when combined with braking. What else is it supposed to be effective at?

illini4

You and others have used the term "drive hard" in this forum occasionally. What are the characteristics of that driving technique?

kosh_2258

The question being asked was can downshifting an autostick save the brakes at the cost of the transmission? The answers is yes, it MIGHT.
If a person does it too agressively too often, and doesn't adjust their maintenance accordingly with more frequent fluid and filter changes the tranmission could fail prematurely.

I've driven manuals for many years myself. You can blow a manual up too if you miss a shift or hit the wrong gear.
But an automatic, autostick not withstanding, isn't a manual. You can't match RPM's with an automatic when you downshift, so that excess energy has to go someplace. In this case into the trans fluid as heat. Not a big deal if you don't overheat the fluid. But over time the pressure buildup and heat from downshifting will stress the seals and parts more than not doing it.

I worked 19 years for a company that used hydrostatic drive systems in their products and learned a lot about hydraulics, pressure, and heat effects.

I'm not telling anyone NOT to use the autostick to assist slowing down. But I AM saying that using the transmission to slow down with the idea of saving the brakes is just false economy.
The savings on the brakes is just being diverted into more frequent transmission maintenance - hopefully, or earlier repairs if you don't do the maintenance.

I'd really be curious to know what DC's official position is on the subject.

bigmike5

Reference the Badyear LS tires. I saw a chart on one of the tire sites that had customer ratings for like 32 touring type tires, it was at Tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/touring.jsp and the Eagle LS was rated 21 and the Eagle LS-A {assymetric?) was rated 31 out of 32. Near the top of the list was the Yokohama AVID. I got no axe to grind here, but I had the LS on my 93 Regal Gran Sport, and then on my 99M, and I am glad that they are gone. They were loud on the road, and of course the ones I just dumped at 38K had the shimmy problem [twisted belts they told me] that has disappeared with the Dayton Daytonas that I am now 30 day test driving on the M. Also, believe it or not, on the Regal set of LSs I had a 1/2" piece of gravel, that was shaped like a flathead screwdriver tip, push its way thru the tread and give me a slow leak, which I luckily caught before the tire went flat. When the tire repair place was fixing it, the guy said "you are not going to believe it, but you did not get a nail through the tire, you got a piece of gravel." I dumped those tires at 44K for some Goodrich touring tires and they were great til I sold the car at 60K miles. And for the guy who is looking to buy an M and have the dealer change the Goodyears for something else--does he want the sale of the car or not? Stick to your guns, I guarantee you that next time I buy a car it will not have BYs, or it will be no sale.