Haven't had much experience w/PHP; I rent non-PHP from Dollar Rent A Car. Why not rent one for an idea on how well the car holds up after getting a few thousand miles on it driven by heavy footed renters like me?
I don't understand why people who would spend $30k+ on a car - you can,after all, get around for $12K or so - think it is such a God-awful thing to buy a set of tires. If you live in a place where there is ice and snow for a significant portion of the year, you're simply a fool to try to get by on summer or all-season tires - no matter what kind of vehicle you drive. I'm a good-enough driver to get to work on AW's all winter, but I'll be slipping and sliding, and worrying the whole time. Comes the cold weather, put the noisy tires on, turn the stereo up a little louder, and relax on the way to work. If the money bothers you, go make a little more while everyone else is stuck in the driveway.
You may have missed the original question: "is there a much of a perceptable differance between the non-PHG and the PHG".
The second question asked was: "do the speed rated tires on the PHP version have reduced traction on ice/snow compared with the non-PHP"
Most of us also added the comment that the 300m Special's Tires are totally unsatifactory for less than fair weather driving as a side note. The all season Michelins on the PHG and non-PHG M's work quite well for all weather driving so there is really no need to purchase an extra set of tires. This is not the case for the Special.
Of course winter tires are going to work better in Snow and Ice, but to spend $1000 or more on new tires and have to change them twice a year, if you were to purchase a Special, most of us were commenting that we felt it is not worth the extra money and effort Vs buying a regular M with or without PHG. I have been happy with the winter handling of my 2001 PHG with the regular all seasons in Alberta, Canada were we can get snow upto six months of the year. Not many of us Albertan's fell the need, extra cost and hassle anymore to purchase an extra set of tires given the improved quality and winter handling of good quality all season's. Now in Alaska the snow does get a little deeper
You seem to be anti-Special, but that's OK it's your opinion. I've had a 99 non-PHG 300M that had the original GY's, and they sucked big time. Didn't really matter whether it was good weather or bad. They vibrated, pulled, were slick in the rain, and not useable in the snow. So I already made the investment for a set of Blizzak's and rims and they serve me well in the winter. I'm actually looking forward to significantly better handling and performance with the Pilot Sports on the Special for the other 9 months of the year. And I appreciate your concern otherwise ;-).
$1000 for winter tires is a bit exagerated. I spent $575 for a set of Michelin Pilot Alpins, mounted, balanced, lug nuts and the wheel covers. Is the cost unreasonable? Not where I live it isn't since I run those tires on the vehicle from November through March. The Special gets around just fine, the .5 inch difference in clearance was never a problem and it kept the OEM wheels and tires from being exposed to road salt and grime. As for traction and braking, the winter tires were vastly superior when it came to going and stopping on ice & snow than the all season tires on the 98 Intrepid I had.
The PHG rotors are NOT larger. They are vented externally, instead of internally, but the size is the same. The steering ratio is not any different from the non PHP, just has a firmer feel due to a higher effort setting. The PHG brake lines are of a low expansion type for a firmer feel, and the pads MAY be different on the current model, but I'm not sure (otto?).
I bought a set of 4 16" alloy wheels, mounted with Michelin Arctic Alpin tires, mounted, balanced and delivered, for $840.00 from Discount Tire. Saves the OEM tires & wheels, and provides vastly improved traction during the winter months.
Go here: Chrysler 300M new car prices at Edmunds. Then choose either "Base Styles" or "Special Styles" - each have a TCO page. It's the third tab on the left side.
Ok..one last time. What is the website and part numbers for the visor plaques. I often get emails from people who found my website who are looking for them. I just can't remember!!
found this great product and thought i would pass it along. it's custom made takes about 7-10 business days to get. has a silver matte finish, not that aluminum foil stuff, agate/dark slate fabric on the inside, rigid won't fall out of the windshield. fits every inch of the windshield. check it out: be sure to enter your make/model on the order form, they have the best price around
Cameras are strictly verboten in the plant. If they spot someone taking pics at some facilities, security people may insist that the film be turned over to them. (or the memory card erased) Industrial espionage and all that.
I would like to get a navigation system for my 300M. I am the happy owner of a 300M in Denmark, and I can inform you, that a 300M in Denmark is very expensive compared to the price in the US; in DK the price for my 300M is nearly 68K $ because of the very high taxation on cars in Denmark and the engine is "only" a 2,7 l; the 3,5 l in DK is nearly 80 K $.
Does anyone know if a navigation system has been produced for the 300M; my dealer cannot help me.
I just installed mine....since my car is gold with the biege (camel) interior, I chose the gold with black lettering. I gave my invoice to a 300M owner at work who wanted to order them for her car, but I believe the part number was:
visor-GLD -05
The "GLD" is for the gold version, use "SLV" if you want silver. The "05" specifices the larger size needed for our cars. If you call, just tell them you want the 300M versions.
I think covercraft is the maker of the chrysler sun shields that you get at the dealer, they look exactly the same, except for $26 dollars more the Chrysler dealer sun shield gives you the MOPAR logo!!! WOW!
I have the Alpine 852A DVD navigation system in my 300M. I have some pictures at http://community.webshots.com/user/my300m_ (look under interior pictures) and By accessing the www.300Mclub.org and looking under 300Michael. You may want to check companies to see if they have detailed maps of you areas.
I am definately NOT anti-Special, I think it is an absolutely gorgeous car. The only point I was trying to make was that if anybody was considering purchasing a Special that they fully considered the practicality of the factory installed tires in winter and be prepared to pay for an extra set of tires and rims in a climate that has snow and ice.
I was just expressing my opinion that they invented all season tires for a reason and not just for us lazy poeple who do not like getting caught out by that early fall or late spring inevitable snow dump!
Russ is quite right about the brakes & steering. Chrysler's Product Information sheet for 2001 (my M's year) lists the braking "swept area" as identical for both PHG & nonPHG, although the PHG has front outboard vented discs (as Russ noted). The 2001 300M brochure mentions the PHG having "stiffer calipers", although I find no mention of this in the PI sheet. The PI sheet notes the optional (PHG) steering is "firm-feel power-assisted rack and pinion with enhanced on-center response", while the steering ratio (17.0:1) and steering turns lock-to-lock (3.1) are not noted to differ with the optional PHG.
With regard to the need for winter tires, the ability of the municipal crews to clear the snow in your local area can make a big difference in one's winter driving experience. I have to agree with the previous post that the expense of a set of winter tires should be of minimal concern to those wishing to get the most from their $30K+ automotive investment. Saving those nice stock chrome wheels from the salt and sand of winter driving is another excellent point.
Remember I live in Canada the home of the devalued dollar! LOL
I don't think $1000 for good quality winter tires, rims and balancing is exagerated at all. If you wanted to keep an extra set of winter tires mounted on 18" rims it is actually LOW! Last time I looked 18" Chrome rims similar to the Specials sell for $150-$250 each in Canada. Tires approx the same amount.
russklass said he paid $840 US mounted on 16" Alloy rims. $840 US is approx $1300 Canadian!
Its a good thing the auto companies give Canadians a break on the purchase price of new cars. I would hate to have buy cars in Canada in US dollars and figure in the exchange factor!
Many Canadians are snapping up the Ford Thunderbirds up here and then selling them off in the US and making a tidy profit!
Definition of investment: use of money to earn income or profit. Comments...buying a new car or new tires and rims is definately not an investment!
I love the look of the tires and rims on all the different 300m's, but replacing them for 6 months of the year with something less appealing...no thanks!...now why didn't DC just put good all season tires on the Special and we would not be having this debate
I could think of a lot of other great uses for $1000-$1500 dollars than storing an extra set of tires and rims in my garage for 6 months.
Saving money by not replacing the OEM tires as often???...now there's a misnomer Try and slip that one by any Accountant. I can hear him saying: "You did what! you bought an extra set of tires and rims and store them for 6 months and use these other ones for the other 6 months of the year. So instead of spending $1000 every TWO years to replace the originals, you spent an extra $1000 today and spend another $2000 every FOUR years! Are you nuts!"
I really am not trying to make a big deal out of this and please nobody take offense to the above comments, but I really don't agree with having to be forced into buying winter tires if there is no need. The Michelin All Season tires on the non Special 300m's are more than adequate for year round driving as long as you recognize the poor driving conditions that sometimes exist and adjust your driving habits accordingly.
Welcome to the site. I can't help you with the nav system, but I think a few have retrofitted a nav system to their cars. I am not aware of one being designed specifically for the M, but others on this site will be able to help you. Did you buy your M new or used? What colour did you get and what equipment comes with the smaller engine? There can't be many M's on the road in your neck of the woods, and it must really be a head turner. If I could offer one suggestion, it would be to remove those big ugly Chrylser decals from the car, if it is a 2002 then you only have the one on the trunk. Good luck with your car, and you'll always be able to get tips from this site.
We may not always agree on some things, but most of us love our M's and the ones that don't have gone to other sites.
I don't know that the snow gets any deeper in Alaska, but maybe the road crews sleep a little later. I've driven the AlCan on AWs w/o any difficulty. I can get around almost anywhere in light traffic on AWs, no matter the conditions. But, in any kind of congestion - Juneau only has rush minutes, but its crowded - I'll spend the money for the sipes or studs. I went for cheap alloys for the M, steel wheels and hubcaps for the wife's Sebring. Face it, your car's ugly in winter so it isn't that big a deal. It was only vanity that made me buy the alloys; the steels would have gotten me around just as well.
Yeah, I remembered that fact after the edit time passed. Although I'd observe that a Z rated tire here in the US goes for around $250 USD so if I was smart I'd buy my tires in Canada! LOL!
As for investments, I'll just say that I agree that buying a car and maintaining it is not an investment. About the only thing that IS is buying a house. The rest of what we spend our money on is for living. The quality of that life is somewhat governed by what we spend it on. How it's spent is a personal value judgment that I decided a long time ago I'd rather make for myself.
Well said personally I prefer to spend my money on a good bottle of rum, the occasional cigarette and lots of golf.
Time to quite smoking, our government just boosted taxes again we are now paying $9 a pack in the store. As an incentive to quit I will have to convert that to golf terms...Hmmm...$9 thats almost 5 holes of bliss.
Isn't it a crying shame to own a great looking car in a climate like ours...The weather in SD is very stable. Hmmmm Mike do you have any spare rooms for rent
Come on down! If nothing else you can shack up in the tree fort! I have to say you're right about the weather though. Today it's 70 and sunny. Yesterday it was 70 and sunny. Tomorrow it will be 70 and sunny. Next week....well, you get the idea.
OK, I just ordered a Getch Pro on E-Bay. Those of you with G-Techs, what kind of stats are you getting (times, HP, etc?? )
My 99LHS is currently pretty much stock (except for the Bosch +4 and new Michelin Pilots), but I just got a K&N Air Charger and I want to do the dual exhausts this summer, so I'm ready to play :-)
I don't know; rush minutes, no crime, not too much hurry, my boat slip 15 minutes away - let me think! I do get sick of the godawful weather, but Juneau's like the little girl with the curl - when its good, its very, very good, and when its bad its horrid. I get to CA a couple or three times a year, got family down there, and I just can't stand the hassle. When I get sick of JNU in Feb or Mar, its off to sunny Mexico, and I get over it in a week or two. I do hate the M being dirty all the time, especially when its too cold to wash it anywhere but the power carwash - they just beat hell out of the finish.
When it's too cold in Denver to wash my car with a hose at my house, I take a bucket of hot water (on the passenger side floor) with my own car shampoo and my own brushes and go to one of those "plug-the-quarters-in" car wash stalls. I only use their "rinse" cycle, to avoid their harsh detergent. First I spray the car off well with clear water, then get my bucket and brush out and wash the whole car, then rinse with clear water, then dry (I use one of those California Water Blades and a towel). This wash system works pretty well, and no harm to the finish.
>now why didn't DC just put good all season tires on the Special...
I agree that it diminished the attractiveness of a Special to us northerners with 2 seasons a year, (8 months of winter, 4 months of road construction) but the car is performance/handling oriented so they'd be out of place with the rest of the package.
Yeah, it was $115 (well, 114.99...!) from some guy who seems to have a truckolard of them LOL! I think his eBay ID actually is "gtechpro"...how original!
BTW, I'm not expecting anything tangible at all in terms of HP or performance. I just like tech toys and gadgets. Truthfully, as a rule I really don't believe in any aftermarket product or mods except audio upgrades (I'm a skeptic at heart!) But this car does make me feel like a 17 year old kid again sitting in my garage with a JC-Whitney catalog...makes me want to experiment and have some fun!
What makes it cooler is that I'm probably one of the few LHS guys that is modding the car in the same manner as the 300M. I'm sure the LHS is heavier, but in 99 we had things you didn't....like folding side mirrors and rear cup-holders...! Vroooom! Vroooom!
Actually the 300M was always rated at about 20 lbs heavier than the LHS, per DC's web site. Maybe the autostick version of the transmission weighs a little more and also the LHS has an aluminum hood which cuts down on weight. Evidently the extra sheet metal and luxury items on the LHS did not add that much weight.
Thanks to all who offered their views on the merits of having the PHP, and the performance characteristics of the tires in snow/ice. My dealer still doesn't have one in stock, so I won't have the opportunity to test drive one soon. However, having read the viewpoints of all who posted, I can probably do without it. I have had my 300M over 100MPH and whipped it around curves with little or no perceptible lean.
On another subject, I'm experiencing a bit of sticker shock on the lease renewal. For the 2002 300M non PHG, w/sunroof, upgraded stereo, luxury group, full spare, side air bags, and chrome wheels, my dealer wants $31,500 - this seems a little on the high side, but I need to do some further checking. The lease rate is a whopping $482/ month!!! This is with lease loyalty, plus all other current incentives! I am currently paying about $150/month less for a nearly identically equipped 2000 300M. Seems I can be in a much higher class car in that price territory. To anybody out there who recently closed a lease deal on a 300M - are these reasonable numbers?
Would love to do the 300m mods to my? er,my wife's LHS, but I told her I bought the car for her, yea sure, didn't think she would believe me for a minute if I tried to get her an "M". I'm sure she would notice the difference in sound from the mods, Doubt she would notice the performance though. Maybe I can do the upgrades latter and tell her the exhaust and air exchange were wore out and need to be replaced.
I didn't realize that the LHS was lighter. I guess I just assumed it was heavier due to the added length and bulbous rear end!
jbakos - My wife almost never drives any car of mine. I bought her a Concorde and she's happy :-)
dammitjim -check Edmunds new car listings..They give invoice, MSRP, and something in between. 31K does seem on the high side for a non-special. They left you negotiating room. I'd let them put their "lease loyalty" into some more $$ off!
The MSRP on the car you just described is around $32,600. The invoice is around $30,900. At first glance your dealer would only be making "only" $600 on the car. However, there's this little thing called "dealer holdback" which amounts to about 3% of the invoice price, which amounts to around $900. The dealer gets this back after the car is sold. So, in fact, your dealer would be making around $1,500 on you. Way too much in my opinion. Even www.carsdirect.com gives a target price for that car of 29,234, OVER $2,000 CHEAPER than what your dealer wants. Now, carsdirect lists a $1,500 customer rebate if you take delivery before 5/31. Did the dealer include that in his pricing, or is he taking that himself??? You need to do some more homework, like you said. In fact, make sure you check out www.carsdirect.com for some hassle free pricing and information, and read the GREAT information at www.carbuyingtips.com. I did, and I managed to work a deal where the dealer made only about $300 on me....that's about $600 under invoice.
Good luck!
oh..by the way, carsdirect lists a "sample lease payment" of $436, which includes $3,700 due at delivery, 60 month lease, 12,000 miles per year and a residual value of about $9,400.
When I got my '01 the Luxury Group was a $500 option. On the '02 it's over $900! The price of wood grain go up that much, or is that the incremental cost of the air pressure sensors? If that's for the air pressure sensors DC can keep them and I'll keep my $400!
Waaay too lazy!!!! I get industrious every once in a while when the weather breaks a bit and do the bucket at the quarter car wash thing, but its just so eeeeeeazy to pull up to the power wash, give them money and ride.
The problem leasing 300M's, or Chryslers in general, these days is the fact that financing support has dropped considerably. When I leased the 300M back in 1999, the 3 year/36K residual was about 56%. The current 3/36 residual with Chrysler Financial is 42%. That's about a $4000 difference on a $32,000 car, which is huge when rolled into 36 payments! The only thing that makes it palatable is the $2500 consumer cash/lease loyalty and a decent money factor (0.00145). Plus I hate the fact that in Ohio we now have to pay all the sales tax up front. I guess they're trying to tell us leasers something (time to buy instead of lease??).
Comments
The second question asked was: "do the speed rated tires on the PHP version have reduced traction on ice/snow compared with the non-PHP"
Most of us also added the comment that the 300m Special's Tires are totally unsatifactory for less than fair weather driving as a side note. The all season Michelins on the PHG and non-PHG M's work quite well for all weather driving so there is really no need to purchase an extra set of tires. This is not the case for the Special.
Of course winter tires are going to work better in Snow and Ice, but to spend $1000 or more on new tires and have to change them twice a year, if you were to purchase a Special, most of us were commenting that we felt it is not worth the extra money and effort Vs buying a regular M with or without PHG. I have been happy with the winter handling of my 2001 PHG with the regular all seasons in Alberta, Canada were we can get snow upto six months of the year. Not many of us Albertan's fell the need, extra cost and hassle anymore to purchase an extra set of tires given the improved quality and winter handling of good quality all season's. Now in Alaska the snow does get a little deeper
Ken
Is the cost unreasonable? Not where I live it isn't since I run those tires on the vehicle from November through March.
The Special gets around just fine, the .5 inch difference in clearance was never a problem and it kept the OEM wheels and tires from being exposed to road salt and grime. As for traction and braking, the winter tires were vastly superior when it came to going and stopping on ice & snow than the all season tires on the 98 Intrepid I had.
The steering ratio is not any different from the non PHP, just has a firmer feel due to a higher effort setting.
The PHG brake lines are of a low expansion type for a firmer feel, and the pads MAY be different on the current model, but I'm not sure (otto?).
Pat
Sedans Host
Thanks
http://www.autosupermart.com/shop/covercraft00006.html
Thanks
Mike
Industrial espionage and all that.
This stuff can supposedly restore or change the color of leather.
Does anyone know if a navigation system has been produced for the 300M; my dealer cannot help me.
gorm@mjohansen.dk
visor-GLD -05
The "GLD" is for the gold version, use "SLV" if you want silver. The "05" specifices the larger size needed for our cars. If you call, just tell them you want the 300M versions.
I was just expressing my opinion that they invented all season tires for a reason and not just for us lazy poeple who do not like getting caught out by that early fall or late spring inevitable snow dump!
With regard to the need for winter tires, the ability of the municipal crews to clear the snow in your local area can make a big difference in one's winter driving experience. I have to agree with the previous post that the expense of a set of winter tires should be of minimal concern to those wishing to get the most from their $30K+ automotive investment. Saving those nice stock chrome wheels from the salt and sand of winter driving is another excellent point.
Jon
I don't think $1000 for good quality winter tires, rims and balancing is exagerated at all. If you wanted to keep an extra set of winter tires mounted on 18" rims it is actually LOW! Last time I looked 18" Chrome rims similar to the Specials sell for $150-$250 each in Canada. Tires approx the same amount.
russklass said he paid $840 US mounted on 16" Alloy rims. $840 US is approx $1300 Canadian!
Its a good thing the auto companies give Canadians a break on the purchase price of new cars. I would hate to have buy cars in Canada in US dollars and figure in the exchange factor!
Many Canadians are snapping up the Ford Thunderbirds up here and then selling them off in the US and making a tidy profit!
visor-GLD-05 Black Chrysler lettering on a Gold Background.
visor-SLV-05 Black Chrysler lettering on a flat silver background.
visor-BLK-05 Gold lettering on a black Background.
I quick email to them would confirm this.
I love the look of the tires and rims on all the different 300m's, but replacing them for 6 months of the year with something less appealing...no thanks!...now why didn't DC just put good all season tires on the Special and we would not be having this debate
I could think of a lot of other great uses for $1000-$1500 dollars than storing an extra set of tires and rims in my garage for 6 months.
Saving money by not replacing the OEM tires as often???...now there's a misnomer
"You did what! you bought an extra set of tires and rims and store them for 6 months and use these other ones for the other 6 months of the year. So instead of spending $1000 every TWO years to replace the originals, you spent an extra $1000 today and spend another $2000 every FOUR years! Are you nuts!"
I really am not trying to make a big deal out of this and please nobody take offense to the above comments, but I really don't agree with having to be forced into buying winter tires if there is no need. The Michelin All Season tires on the non Special 300m's are more than adequate for year round driving as long as you recognize the poor driving conditions that sometimes exist and adjust your driving habits accordingly.
We may not always agree on some things, but most of us love our M's and the ones that don't have gone to other sites.
As for investments, I'll just say that I agree that buying a car and maintaining it is not an investment. About the only thing that IS is buying a house. The rest of what we spend our money on is for living. The quality of that life is somewhat governed by what we spend it on. How it's spent is a personal value judgment that I decided a long time ago I'd rather make for myself.
Time to quite smoking, our government just boosted taxes again we are now paying $9 a pack in the store. As an incentive to quit I will have to convert that to golf terms...Hmmm...$9 thats almost 5 holes of bliss.
Enjoy your sunday.
My 99LHS is currently pretty much stock (except for the Bosch +4 and new Michelin Pilots), but I just got a K&N Air Charger and I want to do the dual exhausts this summer, so I'm ready to play :-)
Mind me asking what you paid for it and where you got it? I see them on E-bay for about $115.
I agree that it diminished the attractiveness of a Special to us northerners with 2 seasons a year, (8 months of winter, 4 months of road construction) but the car is performance/handling oriented so they'd be out of place with the rest of the package.
BTW, I'm not expecting anything tangible at all in terms of HP or performance. I just like tech toys and gadgets. Truthfully, as a rule I really don't believe in any aftermarket product or mods except audio upgrades (I'm a skeptic at heart!) But this car does make me feel like a 17 year old kid again sitting in my garage with a JC-Whitney catalog...makes me want to experiment and have some fun!
What makes it cooler is that I'm probably one of the few LHS guys that is modding the car in the same manner as the 300M. I'm sure the LHS is heavier, but in 99 we had things you didn't....like folding side mirrors and rear cup-holders...! Vroooom! Vroooom!
On another subject, I'm experiencing a bit of sticker shock on the lease renewal.
For the 2002 300M non PHG, w/sunroof, upgraded stereo, luxury group, full spare, side air bags, and chrome wheels, my dealer wants $31,500 - this seems a little on the high side, but I need to do some further checking. The lease rate is a whopping $482/ month!!! This is with lease loyalty, plus all other current incentives! I am currently paying about $150/month less for a nearly identically equipped 2000 300M. Seems I can be in a much higher class car in that price territory. To anybody out there who recently closed a lease deal on a 300M - are these reasonable numbers?
Thanks in advance to all contributing answers.
jbakos - My wife almost never drives any car of mine. I bought her a Concorde and she's happy :-)
dammitjim -check Edmunds new car listings..They give invoice, MSRP, and something in between. 31K does seem on the high side for a non-special. They left you negotiating room. I'd let them put their "lease loyalty" into some more $$ off!
Good luck!
oh..by the way, carsdirect lists a "sample lease payment" of $436, which includes $3,700 due at delivery, 60 month lease, 12,000 miles per year and a residual value of about $9,400.
Mike