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Comments
The second question asked was: "do the speed rated tires on the PHP version have reduced traction on ice/snow compared with the non-PHP"
Most of us also added the comment that the 300m Special's Tires are totally unsatifactory for less than fair weather driving as a side note. The all season Michelins on the PHG and non-PHG M's work quite well for all weather driving so there is really no need to purchase an extra set of tires. This is not the case for the Special.
Of course winter tires are going to work better in Snow and Ice, but to spend $1000 or more on new tires and have to change them twice a year, if you were to purchase a Special, most of us were commenting that we felt it is not worth the extra money and effort Vs buying a regular M with or without PHG. I have been happy with the winter handling of my 2001 PHG with the regular all seasons in Alberta, Canada were we can get snow upto six months of the year. Not many of us Albertan's fell the need, extra cost and hassle anymore to purchase an extra set of tires given the improved quality and winter handling of good quality all season's. Now in Alaska the snow does get a little deeper
Ken
Is the cost unreasonable? Not where I live it isn't since I run those tires on the vehicle from November through March.
The Special gets around just fine, the .5 inch difference in clearance was never a problem and it kept the OEM wheels and tires from being exposed to road salt and grime. As for traction and braking, the winter tires were vastly superior when it came to going and stopping on ice & snow than the all season tires on the 98 Intrepid I had.
The steering ratio is not any different from the non PHP, just has a firmer feel due to a higher effort setting.
The PHG brake lines are of a low expansion type for a firmer feel, and the pads MAY be different on the current model, but I'm not sure (otto?).
Pat
Sedans Host
Thanks
http://www.autosupermart.com/shop/covercraft00006.html
Thanks
Mike
Industrial espionage and all that.
This stuff can supposedly restore or change the color of leather.
Does anyone know if a navigation system has been produced for the 300M; my dealer cannot help me.
gorm@mjohansen.dk
visor-GLD -05
The "GLD" is for the gold version, use "SLV" if you want silver. The "05" specifices the larger size needed for our cars. If you call, just tell them you want the 300M versions.
I was just expressing my opinion that they invented all season tires for a reason and not just for us lazy poeple who do not like getting caught out by that early fall or late spring inevitable snow dump!
With regard to the need for winter tires, the ability of the municipal crews to clear the snow in your local area can make a big difference in one's winter driving experience. I have to agree with the previous post that the expense of a set of winter tires should be of minimal concern to those wishing to get the most from their $30K+ automotive investment. Saving those nice stock chrome wheels from the salt and sand of winter driving is another excellent point.
Jon
I don't think $1000 for good quality winter tires, rims and balancing is exagerated at all. If you wanted to keep an extra set of winter tires mounted on 18" rims it is actually LOW! Last time I looked 18" Chrome rims similar to the Specials sell for $150-$250 each in Canada. Tires approx the same amount.
russklass said he paid $840 US mounted on 16" Alloy rims. $840 US is approx $1300 Canadian!
Its a good thing the auto companies give Canadians a break on the purchase price of new cars. I would hate to have buy cars in Canada in US dollars and figure in the exchange factor!
Many Canadians are snapping up the Ford Thunderbirds up here and then selling them off in the US and making a tidy profit!
visor-GLD-05 Black Chrysler lettering on a Gold Background.
visor-SLV-05 Black Chrysler lettering on a flat silver background.
visor-BLK-05 Gold lettering on a black Background.
I quick email to them would confirm this.
I love the look of the tires and rims on all the different 300m's, but replacing them for 6 months of the year with something less appealing...no thanks!...now why didn't DC just put good all season tires on the Special and we would not be having this debate
I could think of a lot of other great uses for $1000-$1500 dollars than storing an extra set of tires and rims in my garage for 6 months.
Saving money by not replacing the OEM tires as often???...now there's a misnomer
"You did what! you bought an extra set of tires and rims and store them for 6 months and use these other ones for the other 6 months of the year. So instead of spending $1000 every TWO years to replace the originals, you spent an extra $1000 today and spend another $2000 every FOUR years! Are you nuts!"
I really am not trying to make a big deal out of this and please nobody take offense to the above comments, but I really don't agree with having to be forced into buying winter tires if there is no need. The Michelin All Season tires on the non Special 300m's are more than adequate for year round driving as long as you recognize the poor driving conditions that sometimes exist and adjust your driving habits accordingly.
We may not always agree on some things, but most of us love our M's and the ones that don't have gone to other sites.
As for investments, I'll just say that I agree that buying a car and maintaining it is not an investment. About the only thing that IS is buying a house. The rest of what we spend our money on is for living. The quality of that life is somewhat governed by what we spend it on. How it's spent is a personal value judgment that I decided a long time ago I'd rather make for myself.
Time to quite smoking, our government just boosted taxes again we are now paying $9 a pack in the store. As an incentive to quit I will have to convert that to golf terms...Hmmm...$9 thats almost 5 holes of bliss.
Enjoy your sunday.
My 99LHS is currently pretty much stock (except for the Bosch +4 and new Michelin Pilots), but I just got a K&N Air Charger and I want to do the dual exhausts this summer, so I'm ready to play :-)
Mind me asking what you paid for it and where you got it? I see them on E-bay for about $115.
I agree that it diminished the attractiveness of a Special to us northerners with 2 seasons a year, (8 months of winter, 4 months of road construction) but the car is performance/handling oriented so they'd be out of place with the rest of the package.
BTW, I'm not expecting anything tangible at all in terms of HP or performance. I just like tech toys and gadgets. Truthfully, as a rule I really don't believe in any aftermarket product or mods except audio upgrades (I'm a skeptic at heart!) But this car does make me feel like a 17 year old kid again sitting in my garage with a JC-Whitney catalog...makes me want to experiment and have some fun!
What makes it cooler is that I'm probably one of the few LHS guys that is modding the car in the same manner as the 300M. I'm sure the LHS is heavier, but in 99 we had things you didn't....like folding side mirrors and rear cup-holders...! Vroooom! Vroooom!
On another subject, I'm experiencing a bit of sticker shock on the lease renewal.
For the 2002 300M non PHG, w/sunroof, upgraded stereo, luxury group, full spare, side air bags, and chrome wheels, my dealer wants $31,500 - this seems a little on the high side, but I need to do some further checking. The lease rate is a whopping $482/ month!!! This is with lease loyalty, plus all other current incentives! I am currently paying about $150/month less for a nearly identically equipped 2000 300M. Seems I can be in a much higher class car in that price territory. To anybody out there who recently closed a lease deal on a 300M - are these reasonable numbers?
Thanks in advance to all contributing answers.
jbakos - My wife almost never drives any car of mine. I bought her a Concorde and she's happy :-)
dammitjim -check Edmunds new car listings..They give invoice, MSRP, and something in between. 31K does seem on the high side for a non-special. They left you negotiating room. I'd let them put their "lease loyalty" into some more $$ off!
Good luck!
oh..by the way, carsdirect lists a "sample lease payment" of $436, which includes $3,700 due at delivery, 60 month lease, 12,000 miles per year and a residual value of about $9,400.
Mike