The Yoko Avid t-rated is a fine tire but if you want a better handling tire with a higher speed rating , go with the Yokohama 420s. They are v-rated and don't cost much more than the T rated avids. They are very quiet and have a long tread life rating. I believe they are only available at Discount Tire stores. I don't think they will sell them through the internet via the main warehouse. Call one of the stores and see ifyou can arrange them to ship them to you if you don't have a store near you. Great tire--great price.
I would have started with the battery, but you did that. Next, I would go to the cheapest parts, the relays for starter, ignition system, etc. They run about $10 each, even from the dealer, and are easy for the dealer to change. If no success and no one on this board can help go to the Club board and try over there. They have a couple of factory guys [like Wire2] and a couple of service advisors who post there too, who might have an idea. They may have some ideas. Over the years here I have noticed that the BCM and ECM have been frequently mentioned by the supposed dealer techs but only the fable "light show" problem actually necessitated a change of one of those, I think by Dr. Pixel. Otherwise, it seems like the dealers $1K solution to any electrical shenanigans. Good luck and let us know when it is solved. Also, if you replace the battery make them double check that it is a good one. They sometimes die on the shelf. And a green eye that can be seen from above the battery housing in the M is only for the cell its on. There could be a different cell of the battery that has failed.
I love this car, but I was told that there have been numerous problems with steering problems with LH products. A friend of mine's brother 's 2003 300m rolled after he lost his steering. the car just wandered right even though he was turning right. I have found other complaints of accidents and failures on-line about this. THe steering becomes vague, loossens, then you lose it, maybe not all at once either. Can anyone who truly owns one tell me about this problem? The local dealers by me supposedly don't know anything about it. Have there been recalls or a change in its design?
I've been following this board for almost 4 years and that's the first time I've heard ANYTHING about steering problem severe enough to cause a problem with any driver who was paying attention to their driving. I have read about how the goodyear tires had a tendency to "pull", but nothing about the steering itself failing.
Please go to this web site. Also, if you search on "Steering problems" you will see some messages on this board about the rack in the steering being replaced.
I am not trying to scare anyone, cause I want the car really bad, but not bad enough to die for it. I'd really like to know more about it to see if it was only a few isolated cases. There is reference to Federal investigation on it and also NHTSA complaints on LH car steering failures.
If you search the web, you will find negative reports on many cars (foreign & domestic). (e.g. While Toyota has a reputation for reliability, if you search google.com for "Toyota engine sludge" you will find many anti-Toyota stories. ). The pictures on the interpid.clan website prove NOTHING (e.g. any mechanic could make a picture of drive wheel-steering wheel misalignment during an alignment job). Even traditionally anti-Chrysler Consumer Reports magazine lists the 300M as having ave to above ave reliability and is on their "recommended" list. Personally, I've had no drivetrain problems whatsoever with my '01 300M, and find it to be the best handling large front-drive sedan I have ever driven. (I also had a trouble-free '95 Intrepid which I traded in on my M) Don't avoid the 300M (or any other product for that matter) because of a single negative web site. Regarding any federal investigations, check things out at the source (e.g. NHTSA.gov). FWIW- The 300M Enthusiasts Club has a web site board & steering failures have not been an issue there. (Most common complaint has been window motors/regulators on 99 model year cars).
Model to buy-I would also consider buying a 300M Special for a particular year if you can find it. It's a beautiful M with even more features!
Yokohama's-I bought a set of these and LOVED them...UNTIL I had them rotated. Then they became louder than the Goodyears and they had a severe radial pull from belt separation. I gave them a couple of thousand miles to settle in, but they never improved and having the rotation reversed didn't help. I would recommend NOT rotating them and just replace them as they wear out. I got so disgusted with mine that I took them off after about 15K miles (They are still on my chrome Razorstars awaiting removal and disposal so I can sell the Razorstars). Plenty of tread still left on them but they turned into a horrible tire. My new BFG g-Force KDWS's are much quieter, handle much better, and have far better wet traction. The BFG's cost me $460 including mounting and ride-match balancing (On my new wheels that I purchased from them as well.Free shipping from www.tires.com), and that price is for 18's (235/50/18)! 17's are probably cheaper if they sell them there. Your results may vary, and I know that Rogor ahsn't had any problems with his (he had his longer that I had mine), but mine weren't worth the money. Go to www.tirerack.com and you can read my very negative rating/review of them in the reviews section for the tire.
I read that entire board about a year ago. At the time it was primarily Intrepids and only 1 300M listed, but it was only a minor issue -- not complete failure. I concur that no one has ever had a problem on the 300mclub board with steering failures. I have heard maybe 2 complaints about increased "play" in steering in a couple 99's and replacing the steering rack fixed the problem.
I'm surprised at your problems with your Avid T-4's. I have had mine for about 20k miles and they have been great! I actually prefer them to the original Michelins on my wife's M. I have rotated them every 3k miles. They completely eliminated the left drift/pull that I had with the original Goodyears.
I wonder if you just got a bad tire (or 2 or 3 or 4)? I haven't seen any other complaints on these tires.
99M, 5 years old, 57K miles, and not a problem in the handling department ever. I take cloverleaf turns on the gas at speeds that other cars show brake lights on, and have never experienced any tendency to doing anything except hug the turn, and whip right thru it. I have been on this board since I got the car and never have heard of the problem you describe, except as related to the Badyear tires or a need for an alignment on a given car. One of the things I liked about the M from the get go was its nice tight steering and tracking. Not the mushy soft stuff my wife's last two GM products have shown [96 Aurora and 00 Eldo]. I do recall some guys having issues with strut caps and some squeeks in the front end area, but I have not seen anything like that.
At the risk of beating this to death, my power steering pump "failed" but I had no loss of steering or serious driveability issues at all. The pump was making noises as a result of the bearings (I presume) going bad......
ottowrkr...thanks for the a/c advice. Yes, I did put the leak seal stuff in the system and the compressor failed about 1 month later. However, I have no evidence that the sealant caused or other wise contributed to the failure. The compressor had locked up and as a result the belt burned off the pulley. We knew this is what happened as we could see the scortch mark on the pulley where the belt burned through when it stopped turning. Regarding the a/c, I presume I should vent the refrigerant from the high pressure side? Also, does the replacement refrigerant have lubricant already in it, or do I need to add that separately? Thanks, Phil
Brother PJ: Thanks for the advice. I've heard (until Dustin's post) nothing but good things about the Yoko Ono T4s. I recently had to replace one tire. As I wasn't ready to replace all 4, I reluctantly got another (loud)Eagle LS. My tire shop said the T4s were 3 month back ordered! Same price for the Loudyear's and Yoko Ono's, a little more expensive than you paid. I had planned to replace the other three this fall (or see if I can get to next spring on the remaining three?). Do I eat the cost of the newer Loudyear and get 4 new Yokos or 3 more Loudyears...? I've been getting the itch to buy a new car, but fiscal responsibility (read: no money and yes, fastdriver, I do know where some of it is! Yet, I can't seem to get it back...) will not allow me to buy until '04 at the earliest.
MRic: No steering problems here. Yours was the first I recall hearing of. I've been on this board since mid '99. Unless you get fastdriver's re-incarnated Christine, you'll be buying a great car. Also, great deals on new (0%, big rebates). Is that an option, to potentially avoid buying someone else's problem (and get a nice, long warranty)?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
:-))))))) I wish I could get some of it back for you, but Gov. Rowland has his hands on it now!
mricciardi-
I have to agree with others here. My Christine had many weird problems, but I have been in this topic since June of 1998 and I NEVER heard ANYTHING like what you're saying! Many other things, but not that!
Thanks for the responses. I definitely have a slow leak in one tire due to an ineffective tire repair from a nail close to the outside edge. I hesitate to put the brand new pilot spare on the ground as I might want to trade it in when going to a different brand. I could use it as a spare, but I have been doing 5 tire rotations to spread out the wear. Maybe buying 4 new brand x tires will be cheaper than 3 Pilots!
Way back when I had to get my rack & pinion replaced within warranty. It felt as though if I had let the problem continue for a long time, eventually the front wheels would become independant of the steering wheel.
I got my tires at a place called "Tires Plus" - they had to order them as they don't stock them, but it only took 4 days. They also had 90 days same as cash (very nice way to buy tires) if you used their card. If you applied for the card with the first purchase, you got another 5% off, and they had a special on alignments for half price with the purchase of any 4 tires. I had no real complaints with the goodyears up until about 45,000 miles, when they started shaking like crazy. If I were you, I'd bite the bullet on the new goodyear and buy 4 new yokomamas. They really do make a difference in the sound level, and it might be enough to justify a delay in getting another car! - I swear the difference is enough to make you think you DID get another car.
I never heard about steering failures in LH cars. I had a '99 300M for 3 years. Have been on this board for a long time too and have seen some (very few) people have some problems, but not like this.
FWIW, steering rack on my '99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP broke and was replaced under warranty, and that is known to be a widespread problem.
P.S. Are you related to the lawyer Pete Ricciardi in New Haven area, CT?
Dustin --- a possible cause of the problem that you had after rotating. I believe that the Yoko Avids are a directional tire. If you cross rotated any of them, that could possibly be the cause. Take a look at the tread and see if it's different on the inner and outer edges. They have to mounted with the proper side outward and should be then kept on that side of the car. The Yoko 420s on the other hand I believe can be cross rotated as the tread pattern allows it. I recently cross rotated my 420s and have had no problem.
I'd advise considering a '99 because: 1) I liked the colors that year the best. That was the only year they used the candy apple red metallic, which I have and love 2) Any window motor or actuator problems are long since resolved (it's not hard to verify that they work) 3) You'll save a good 4K or so over a '00, and even more against an '01 4) I've driven a couple of '02s, and didn't find them much quieter than my '99, if at all
HOWEVER, I would also consider any year that is a color you want and is either still under the factory or has an extended Chrysler warranty w/no more than a $50 copay. Since these cars do have niggling problems, or worse as in Pster's case, the warranty would be desireable.
Ok--got the recall repair done this a.m. 45 minutes and it was completed. They were still apologetic about not having the part on Tuesday. After he brought it around to me, the service advisor asked me to let him know when I plan on selling my 99M, just let him know and he would like first shot at it. The young guys really love this car with all the mods at the dealership. Platinum has always been my favorite color; too bad they dropped it after 99.
Have had a '99 and been on and off this board and many others... never seen what you are concerned about. the car stears great and is solid...and I drive fast. The stearing problem is with the person who is stearing you wrong.
Ruski, good to see you are still here. I was in Russia in November. Changed a lot. Toilets in the Hermatage are still terrible though...wheww.
I have had a popping in my sterring wheel since 10k now have 34k. first 5 times in the shop dealer said they could not reproduce. In the begining it would only happen when the car was cold. now it happens quite often. Took it to another dealer they acknowledged the problen and replaced the rack and pinion about 2k ago. The popping is still present. Also a couple weeks after they replaced the R&P some suspension bolts became loose and it felt like the wheels were literally gonna fall off they tightend them and it drives ok. I am taking it back in soon to have them look at the steering again.
I also vote for the 2001(what I have) but try to get one with the 99-00 chrome razorstars though. Even though my car has had plenty of problem it has never left me stranded. I Probably won't keep it much out of warranty though. I feel the 2001 had the best mix of features (lux pac, phg, clear taillights, infinity sound etc) You should be able to pick one up for less than 18k by the trade in offers I am getting. Good Luck.
A '99 and an '01, 130,000 miles, and I always felt the steering was one of the best qualities of the car. Chrysler kept improving the 300M thru '03, then started cutting corners & decontenting. Will they ever learn? First 1,000 miles on the Pacifica and still lovin' it!
My steering is also doing great at over 50K. And I have hit my share of very bad potholes and even went over a curb at over 30mph. I bent a rim, but no other damage to the car. So I think the steering setup is built pretty sturdily . Very little play in the steering wheel and it holds it alignment well..
For all you 300M owners who are upset the current model is in for a radical change, consider the Cadillac CTS. I was all set to purchase a 2004 300 M several months ago until I took a test drive in the CTS. I rented a 300 M several months ago from Dollar Rent A Car. I really liked the 300M, but I think the CTS is worth the $4,000 higher price. I just took delivery on a new CTS this past Friday. CTS looks will grow on you, the transmission in the CTS is superior to the 300M. Although the engine is smaller in the CTS, the transmission is so well mated that it feels as fast if not faster than the 300M. Cadillac's quality has always been better than Chrysler and you get a four year 50,000 mile bumper to bumper warranty. I don't think the transmission needs a limp mode either.
But the CTS is SO UGLY!!!! I'm one of the 300M owners who don't like the replacement Chrysler is going to, but the CTS is not an option to me. I think all the recent Caddies are butt ugly. In fact, most new cars being introduced recently are pretty bad. I don't know what has happened to the auto manufacturers' collective taste. I guess I'll be keeping my M a few more years. Since I'm almost 64 years old now, perhaps it will be my last car. That would be cool with me, as it's the best (and I think at least one of the best looking) cars I've ever owned. Lynn Flowers McKinney, Texas
To each their own. I think the 300M is a great looking car, it is a shame that Chryler is doing a total remake. I would have bought an M if the total remake was not happening. One thing the 300M and CTS have in common, is they don't look like every other car on the road.
I have a neighbor who managed the largest GM engine plant in the world in Tonawanda NY, until his retirement 4 years ago. He is a total GM advocate. When I drove into his driveway in May 1998 with my Deep Slate 300M he walked around the car slowly and said, "You know, that's almost radical!" Real praise indeed! I think the key word is RADICAL. Chrysler showed the good sense to push the envelope without crossing the line to radical. As a result, the design still looks fresh five years after introduction. I'm afraid that the manufacturers who are crossing the line today, such as Cadillac and Nissan, may not enjoy the same fate. Others, BMW in particular, have completely lost touch with the market and have allowed designers like Chris Bangle to undo years of progress. Their "I-Drive" and active driver "aids" prove they have even forgoten what brung 'em to the party.
pster-the sytem uses oil called PolyAlkylene Glycol or PAG for short . The LH cars use model ND8 PAG oil . The amout of PAG oil the system uses is 5 oz.
otto, if I let all the refrigerant out and then refill it with 24 oz., should I be adding the oil at the same time? Or does the oil stay in the system even when I vent the refrigerant?
The style of the CTS is certainly radical, but it is not "pleasing to the eye". This is an example of a car company pushing a design, not buyers pulling it.....I predict the CTS design will have limited legs. The 300M remains not only a radical design, but I think it has been copied - look at the Nissan Altima.......
<<<In fact, most new cars being introduced recently are pretty bad. I don't know what has happened to the auto manufacturers' collective taste.
I believe that the first part of your statement has merit but it is not driven by manufactures styling taste. I think if we could get dollar figures for the tooling and manufacturing processes to produce hard edged and relatively flat sheet metal panels, we would find that they are cheaper to produce when compared to flowing curvey lines of previous car generations. However in this economy the cost savings will not be past on to the consumer, the cost savings are used to fatten up the upper echelon of corporate America. Just my two cents.
Doesn't it harm the ozone layer to release the AC refrigerant into the atmosphere? Don't garages have special "recycling" machines to prevent this or am I thinking of something else?
While I'm sure that any chemical being released is not helpful to the environment, R143A is CFC free and I believe that it in not harmful to the ozone layer. Yes, shops do use recovery/recycling equipment, however.
I looked at the G35 Coupe today as a possible replacement for my 300M. Oh what a sweet set of wheels! 18 inchers with Brembo brakes......280 HP. I like the utilitatian aspects of the 300M, but I think I'm ready for a little more fun in the curves as that was always the part of the 300M I liked the best - flat fast corners. But, I am hesitant to buy another first year release considering the problems with my 99 300M.
thanks Ruski! I wasn't aware of that......I better go back and read Motor Trends article again. I seem to be a fan of Motor Trend Car of the Year I guess.
The only thing I didn't like on the G35 coupe is a slab side that will surely invite door dings big time.
thanks for your info and advice otto! I plan to vent systema and simply recharge with 24 oz. of R134a when necessary. I hope to get through the summer and maybe get the year 2 G35. Me thinks the dealers are gouging on it now.
intrep- I was very surprised too! i don't know if I got bad tires or what but I was more disappointed with the Yokos than I was with the Goodyears (possible because I have never had any faith in Goodyear and I was so enthused about getting the Yokohamas). They were good looking tires and I loved having the "rim saver" lip to protect the wheels. I'm glad that others haven't had the same problems I have.
Easy-That's the first thing I thought of, but I checked them myself and even took them to a Yokohama dealer for inspection ( I bought the tires from tirerack.com and had them installed by a local approved installer) and they said thaey looked fine and were wearing normally. They also commented on how loud they were. Tirerack.com had me do 3 tread depth measurements per tire to see if they qualified for replacement but since they were wearing equally, they couldn't get Yokohama to agree to replace them in spite of the noise. Yokohama said that they were wearing normally and the noise was my problem. That didn't make me fond of Yokohama as a company. So far, my BFGoodrich g-Force tires haven't had any of the problems that my Yokohama's did and I have been happier with their dry and wet performance. Very little snow down here (and if it does snow, the roads are all closed anyway so there's no driving until it melts)so that didn't figure into my purchase equation. I guess everyone runs into a bad situation like that every once in a while. I just chalked it up as a fluke and kept on going!
Comments
I am not trying to scare anyone, cause I want the car really bad, but not bad enough to die for it. I'd really like to know more about it to see if it was only a few isolated cases. There is reference to Federal investigation on it and also NHTSA complaints on LH car steering failures.
http://intrepid.clan-510.org/
FWIW- The 300M Enthusiasts Club has a web site board & steering failures have not been an issue there. (Most common complaint has been window motors/regulators on 99 model year cars).
Jon
Yokohama's-I bought a set of these and LOVED them...UNTIL I had them rotated. Then they became louder than the Goodyears and they had a severe radial pull from belt separation. I gave them a couple of thousand miles to settle in, but they never improved and having the rotation reversed didn't help. I would recommend NOT rotating them and just replace them as they wear out. I got so disgusted with mine that I took them off after about 15K miles (They are still on my chrome Razorstars awaiting removal and disposal so I can sell the Razorstars). Plenty of tread still left on them but they turned into a horrible tire. My new BFG g-Force KDWS's are much quieter, handle much better, and have far better wet traction. The BFG's cost me $460 including mounting and ride-match balancing (On my new wheels that I purchased from them as well.Free shipping from www.tires.com), and that price is for 18's (235/50/18)! 17's are probably cheaper if they sell them there. Your results may vary, and I know that Rogor ahsn't had any problems with his (he had his longer that I had mine), but mine weren't worth the money. Go to www.tirerack.com and you can read my very negative rating/review of them in the reviews section for the tire.
I wonder if you just got a bad tire (or 2 or 3 or 4)? I haven't seen any other complaints on these tires.
ottowrkr...thanks for the a/c advice. Yes, I did put the leak seal stuff in the system and the compressor failed about 1 month later. However, I have no evidence that the sealant caused or other wise contributed to the failure. The compressor had locked up and as a result the belt burned off the pulley. We knew this is what happened as we could see the scortch mark on the pulley where the belt burned through when it stopped turning. Regarding the a/c, I presume I should vent the refrigerant from the high pressure side? Also, does the replacement refrigerant have lubricant already in it, or do I need to add that separately? Thanks, Phil
MRic: No steering problems here. Yours was the first I recall hearing of. I've been on this board since mid '99. Unless you get fastdriver's re-incarnated Christine, you'll be buying a great car. Also, great deals on new (0%, big rebates). Is that an option, to potentially avoid buying someone else's problem (and get a nice, long warranty)?
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
:-))))))) I wish I could get some of it back for you, but Gov. Rowland has his hands on it now!
mricciardi-
I have to agree with others here. My Christine had many weird problems, but I have been in this topic since June of 1998 and I NEVER heard ANYTHING like what you're saying! Many other things, but not that!
fastdriver
Bill
Bill
FWIW, steering rack on my '99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP broke and was replaced under warranty, and that is known to be a widespread problem.
P.S. Are you related to the lawyer Pete Ricciardi in New Haven area, CT?
1) I liked the colors that year the best. That was the only year they used the candy apple red metallic, which I have and love
2) Any window motor or actuator problems are long since resolved (it's not hard to verify that they work)
3) You'll save a good 4K or so over a '00, and even more against an '01
4) I've driven a couple of '02s, and didn't find them much quieter than my '99, if at all
HOWEVER, I would also consider any year that is a color you want and is either still under the factory or has an extended Chrysler warranty w/no more than a $50 copay. Since these cars do have niggling problems, or worse as in Pster's case, the warranty would be desireable.
Just my 2 cents.
Ruski, good to see you are still here. I was in Russia in November. Changed a lot. Toilets in the Hermatage are still terrible though...wheww.
Bushpilot
I also vote for the 2001(what I have) but try to get one with the 99-00 chrome razorstars though. Even though my car has had plenty of problem it has never left me stranded. I Probably won't keep it much out of warranty though. I feel the 2001 had the best mix of features (lux pac, phg, clear taillights, infinity sound etc) You should be able to pick one up for less than 18k by the trade in offers I am getting. Good Luck.
Chrysler kept improving the 300M thru '03, then started cutting corners & decontenting.
Will they ever learn?
First 1,000 miles on the Pacifica and still lovin' it!
I'm one of the 300M owners who don't like the replacement Chrysler is going to, but the CTS is not an option to me. I think all the recent Caddies are butt ugly.
In fact, most new cars being introduced recently are pretty bad. I don't know what has happened to the auto manufacturers' collective taste.
I guess I'll be keeping my M a few more years. Since I'm almost 64 years old now, perhaps it will be my last car. That would be cool with me, as it's the best (and I think at least one of the best looking) cars I've ever owned.
Lynn Flowers
McKinney, Texas
When I drove into his driveway in May 1998 with my Deep Slate 300M he walked around the car slowly and said, "You know, that's almost radical!" Real praise indeed!
I think the key word is RADICAL.
Chrysler showed the good sense to push the envelope without crossing the line to radical. As a result, the design still looks fresh five years after introduction.
I'm afraid that the manufacturers who are crossing the line today, such as Cadillac and Nissan, may not enjoy the same fate.
Others, BMW in particular, have completely lost touch with the market and have allowed designers like Chris Bangle to undo years of progress. Their "I-Drive" and active driver "aids" prove they have even forgoten what brung 'em to the party.
I believe that the first part of your statement has merit but it is not driven by manufactures styling taste. I think if we could get dollar figures for the tooling and manufacturing processes to produce hard edged and relatively flat sheet metal panels, we would find that they are cheaper to produce when compared to flowing curvey lines of previous car generations. However in this economy the cost savings will not be past on to the consumer, the cost savings are used to fatten up the upper echelon of corporate America. Just my two cents.
Doesn't it harm the ozone layer to release the AC refrigerant into the atmosphere? Don't garages have special "recycling" machines to prevent this or am I thinking of something else?
fastdriver
PS- STILL raining here! :-)
The only thing I didn't like on the G35 coupe is a slab side that will surely invite door dings big time.
Easy-That's the first thing I thought of, but I checked them myself and even took them to a Yokohama dealer for inspection ( I bought the tires from tirerack.com and had them installed by a local approved installer) and they said thaey looked fine and were wearing normally. They also commented on how loud they were. Tirerack.com had me do 3 tread depth measurements per tire to see if they qualified for replacement but since they were wearing equally, they couldn't get Yokohama to agree to replace them in spite of the noise. Yokohama said that they were wearing normally and the noise was my problem. That didn't make me fond of Yokohama as a company. So far, my BFGoodrich g-Force tires haven't had any of the problems that my Yokohama's did and I have been happier with their dry and wet performance. Very little snow down here (and if it does snow, the roads are all closed anyway so there's no driving until it melts)so that didn't figure into my purchase equation. I guess everyone runs into a bad situation like that every once in a while. I just chalked it up as a fluke and kept on going!