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Comments
I'm looking to replace them with:
Yokohama AVS dB S2
Pirelli P-Zero Nero M+S
Michelin Pilot Sport A/S
Does anyone have any experiece with any of these tires. I sure to hate to sacrifice the performance, but I sure do want a little more quiet. I've been researching this for MONTHS to find a good compromise between performance and noise levels. My girlfriends car is making me spoiled. A Honda Accord shouldn't be quieter than a 300M going down the road. :-(
Now don't get me wrong, you'd have to pry the keys to my Special from my cold, dead hands if you wanted them!! I just want a little more quiet. I'm happy with nearly every other aspect of the car.
In a nutshell, I'm very happy with it. I did the install myself. It's not very difficult at all. The only thing that had me horrified was drilling a hole in the roof of my baby. Even worse than that was the possibility of drilling the hole OFF-CENTER!! I used the template they provided and measured and checked probably 4 times before I even plugged in the drill and a few more times after I plugged it in the wall. I did it very slowly, gradually making the hole bigger and bigger until the antenna would snap into it. I don't have a hole saw, so I had to use the Dremel to do the final shaping and sizing. The antenna mount is shaped sort of like a D and snaps into the hole. It has 3M tape around the mount point to help hold it in place after you snap it down and to help seal it. I've pressure washed the car 3 times since and no leaks yet.
Signal strength is strong. I haven't had any occasions of dropped signals except in my garage with the garage doors open. When the doors are closed, the signal comes in fine. My girlfriend's XM drops in the garage whether the doors are open or not.
There's a ton of stations to choose from (more country and rock stations than I would prefer). And there's just about every genre that one could think of; Pop to Jazz, Country to Hip-hop, Talk, News, Weather, Comedy, Kids, etc. Basically, I'm loving it. And NO COMMERCIALS!! They have DJs, but they don't talk you to death. They're there just enough to make you feel "connected" to the rest of the world; not isolated like listening to CDs all the time. The sound quality is really good, but tends to be a little biased toward bass. That's fine with me. I like a little thump in my music.
And Sirius with the RB1 is awesome. It shows the Title and Artist at the same time as well as the station title and genre, and channel number all on the same screen. There's even a small section beside the channel that can scroll information, i.e. the phone number to call Sirius to set up your service.
So, for now, inside my 300M Special is just a darn good and enjoyable place to be (besides the tire noise)! I love it even more! If I had a Bluetooth enabled phone, I'd install the U-connect system.
The power delivery is very smooth until about 4000RPM. Then a little man jumps out of the dash and stands in your chest. Coming from a dead stop sucks. Car and Driver must've been torque braking like mad to get 5.3 seconds to 60. This particular one had a 4-speed auto (I thought the C came standard with the 5-speed auto). Then again, it may just be 4-speeds when using Autostick. The Autostick SUCKS big time! I guess I'm just too spoiled by my Special. I'm used to getting an immediate shift when I flick the stick. With this thing, you might as well just leave it in full auto because it shifts when IT wants to anyway. Downshifts don't come too willingly. You gotta nail the throttle. Even then, it's not explosive acceleration like I was expecting. It just eases into it just like the 300M. Guess Chrysler is still into sapping the engine to save the transmission.
Visibility out the front and sides is fine. The rear visibility sucks just like the 300M. It's almost exactly like looking out the back of the 300M. And you have to have arms like an ape to reach the rearview mirror. It's a LONG stretch.
The power tilt/telescoping steering wheel is nice. Wish we had that. Not too crazy about the tortoise shell, though. That looks better in photos than in person. The aluminum dash treatment is a nice touch. The climate control definitely would take some getting used to. The M has me spoiled on simple digital controls and readouts. The interior materials aren't any better than the 300M and actually has many more hard surfaces than the M. The seats are no more comfortable than the M, either. Well, the back seat is more comfortable for shorter passengers. The bench isn't as long as in the M. Interior space is hardly more than the 300M. The front passenger footwell is deeper and the rear floor is deeper (or the rear seat sits higher). I didn't notice much difference in headroom and I think the nod goes to the M for hip and shoulder room. Then again, it should because the M is wider.
The 300's a nice piece of machinery, no doubt. But it is not that much better than a 300M. I came away unimpressed. I was hoping I'd like the looks better in person but I didn't. My girlfriend thinks the 300M is way more attractive, as do I. She did say the C looks good at night. Kind of like the ugly girl you left the bar with; when the lights are off, who cares? haha But then, "the sun also rises."
All that aside, the car is definitely a head turner in traffic and DCX will no doubt have a home run with this. There were TONS of people at the event (they gave away a free car, too!). Sadly, though, it is nowhere near the leaps and bounds better than the 300M that the press and Daimler would have the world believe. If you want to do the numbers game, then yes, but if you're more about tactile experience, the M stacks up VERY well against its successor. As I said, it is not much better than the 300M, if at all (powertrain/drivetrain aside); it's just different. And on the highway, I don't think the 300M would be left too far behind. So, for all of those that were considering the new 300, I suggest you take a long test drive before you commit to casting your 300Ms aside. You might save yourselves 30-some-thousand dollars.
Sorry this was so long and broken up. Just wanted to make some points as I remembered them.
The car is significantly more quiet than my 2002. Perhaps your Special has more sound insulating materials. Cabin noise has been my biggest complaint with my M, and I was amazed at how hushed the car was.
Whatever your perceptions were of the C's power and speed, the timings that have been reported in every magazine match or better what DCX claims. I thought the ride was firm, smooth, powerful and completely different from my current drive.
Fit and finish are definitely a full step up from the M. The A and B pillars are no longer hard shell plastic, but a mesh covered material that looks and feels great. Th interior seal around the doors is cloth finished as opposed to the bare rubber on the M. Things like the flush finished air vents and damped glove compartment are in sharp contrast to what I currently drive. These may all sound like little things, but when you add them up, you have a vehicle that is more distinctive and polished.
Don't get me wrong, I have loved my M, but this car is really a move up for Chrysler. When you add the number of features that aren't even available in an M, it's pretty clear the the 300C is in a new ball park.
Yes, I like it!
I'm going to pick mine out tomorrow, and I'll report on how it all works out on the 300 board.
I suppose I'm just still not over the love affair with my M. It's been 24K miles and the only real problem I've had with her is the notorious rotor warping. The only other problems are the occasional rattles from the rear deck over rough surfaces. My baby has me hooked!
The C isn't a bad car by any stretch of the imagination (so far), but I don't think it is head and shoulders above an M. I wish you good luck and much happiness with your new 300. Sorry to lose another M owner, though.
I would be interested to know what features besides Park Assist, dual-zone CC, and power tilt/telescoping steering wheel the new 300 offers that the M didn't. SIDEBAR: I noticed that the new 300's trunk looks a bit smaller than the M's; albeit a little more accessible through the trunk opening than the M.
I drove a 300C last weekend, same color combo as my Special and found the car to be noticeably superior to my Special in many ways. First of all, the power difference is obvious. Part throttle acceleration in the hemi-powered car was better than WOT in the Special and my car is no slouch. The exhaust note is very nice. Since my tester only had 30 miles on the odometer, I refrained from really putting my foot in it to see what it could really do. I will say that the extra 130+ lb*ft of torque makes its presence felt in a very pleasing way. I traded an '01 Camaro SS for my Special and it was nice to be reminded of what REAL acceleration feels like again.
The 300C drove down the road very quietly and smoothly. It was noticeably quieter than my Special which I attribute to the tires mainly. The ride was more pillowy, once again mainly due to the tires. I would have willingly traded some quietness for the wonderful grip and response my Special has with the Pilot Sports. I didn't mess around with the autostick, though I did notice that you don't have to pull the selector back into a separate gate to use it. The hype about the MDS is true, at least on this car. I couldn't tell when the system brought all the ponies on line when going from cruising to a more urgent charge. It's all there. Except for the tire noise and the pillowy feeling, I'd rate the overall ride smoothness as comparable to my Special, in other words, absolutely glass-smooth. The brakes felt really good, very confidence inspiring. I didn't get out my ruler, but I could tell from my walk-around that the rotor size is much larger, front and rear. These rotors did a good job filling up the wheel. This is one area where I would make an upgrade on my Special. It needs more brakes. A nice 13-inch 4-piston cross-drilled Brembo or Baer set-up would look and perform well on the Special.
I found the fit and finish both inside and out to be very good. I was disappointed at the choice of materials for the dash and door trim. This stuff looks and feels like what they used back in the 70's and I think my Special is much better in this regard. However, all the bits fit together well and the seams were all even. The seats are contoured differently and the headrests articulate better. The leather has a softer feel than the materials used on my Special and they feel a little firmer too. I loved the power tilt/tele feature and the dual-zone HVAC. My tester had the optional 380-watt Boston Acoustics sound system which I found to be a little bass heavy, even after playing with it for a bit. The Inifinity system in my Special sounds a little crisper, but could use just a teensy bit more refinement on the bass response.
Lastly, as mentioned above, my tester had the Light Taupe interior. It also had a matching Light Taupe carpet and floor mats. While it looked gorgeous, it'll be a bear to maintain, especially with kids. I like the black carpet and mats in my Special and I think it's a nice contrast to the Light Taupe leather.
Taken as a whole, I think the 300C is a worthy replacement for the 300M and I think DC is going to sell alot of them. The car I drove stickered at $36,560.00, needing, I think, only the Sirius radio and Nav system to be fully contented.
In retrospect, there were only 2 things I would have done differently with my Special, more power and a 5-spd auto. I wish the 300C drivetrain could've been in the Special. THAT would be an out-of-the-park home run IMHO, and also because I personally prefer the styling of my Special over the new car. The one area where I think the Special really outshines the 300C is in the handling. The Specials equipped with the Pilot Sports handle extremely well. I'd be very interested to see if a Special version is offered in a couple of years, say with 400hp....In the meantime, I've got a little while to go before I own my Special outright, so I'll wait and see how DC evolves and refines this new car. I think they got off to a really good start.
As for DMC rotors being worse than GM, not in my experience. From what I've seen, all the manufacturers could do a bit better job of supplying rotors that last longer. On the flip side, smaller rotors weigh less which means less unsprung weight which translates to better handling.
I'll close w/a few comments on the new 300. The mileage ratings on the C I believe are 17/25; quite good for a 2 ton car w/V8. The V6 models go about 3700 lbs, which is only about 100 pounds more thean the 'M, but it's not going to help off the line acceleration any being it's basically the same engine. I'm curious if the 300 is more fun to drive than the M due to better weight balance. One of my issues w/the M is that it's such a big car that it's just not fun to drive like some smaller cars. A 4 cylinder Accord is a lot more fun to drive, and who really needs all that space unless you have 3 or more kids?
Saw the new 300 [touring ed.] at the Premier on Thursday nite. They couldn't get a C. Stuck on a train in Nashville. I thought the car was jade until this morning when I had my 300M in for a lubrication service, and I looked at the sticker on the Touring model outside. Turns out it was Magnesium, the color I thought I would like, but now think is rather lame compared to the Platinum on my M, or the Graphite they had on a truck in the showroom. Guess other colors like plants, neon, etc., kind of blend with the Magnesium car color. I agree with a lot of what Tay10rd said about the car. I think the seats in the M have better thigh bolsters, and I noticed on the new car that had been outside in several rain storms this weekend that the sill at the bottom of the doors and fenders is not flush with the doors, but actually sticks out about 3/4", so all the washed down grime ends up on the sill below the door edge. Looks like it would require frequent cleaning of that area as the rest of the car showed no residual dirt. The model they had had no options and was about $24+K. Didn't have a desire to drive it with the 3.5. As I sat waiting for my 300M and stared at it from the showroom, I just didn't get it. It looks, like I said a long time ago, like a MB sedan from the 70's with an oversized Studebaker Lark grill jammed in the front. Any resemblance to the Chronos is strictly coincidental. With my M parked next to it, and a choice of which keys to take, not even close.
I cruised my M down to the Corvette museum on Saturday to see the new Vette roadster that was being shown at the Corvette birthday party there. Also disappointed in that car up close and personal. Don't like the headlights, the cut of the back end, and the exhaust tips really were very plain and lousy looking. The interior was OK, but I couldn't get a ride along in the new car as there were at least 500 Vette owners waiting and hoping to get a ride, so I cruised back home. Love the 300M cuising around 70-75 on the open road. Got home and did something I've never done before to this car, got some of that new Turtle Wax Ultra and decide to carefully try it. My car was ultra clean and it actually did a real good job, easy on and off and good lustre. Had to be careful with the striping, but with real concentration I was able to keep it off the striping. All in all satisfied, and would have done a second coat just to enhance it, but figured I would bring more rain if I did.
300mspecial1 - You should go to your dealer and pick up 3 bottles of the anti-foaming additive for your transmission. I don't have the part number right now, but you can get it from the "other" board. It will make a WORLD of difference. Trust me! I didn't believe it 'til I tried it. After about a week, you won't even recognize the feel of your car. After that, then go drive the C and tell me you feel a huge difference between the two. You will be quite surprised. Someone recommended using two bottles and called it the "$6 shiftkit." I went for the $9 shiftkit and, wow! Now I have to buy new tires even sooner because my fronts are nearly slicks. If you're not mindful, you'll be peeling out everytime you hit the gas; especially when turning. I'm not doing it on purpose, mind you. I'm not one for abusing my baby. You might also want to look into taking out the slack in your accelerator pedal. It's what you call a "free mod." It doesn't cost a thing and doesn't add anything to your performance, but it will feel more responsive. That's the first thing I did when I got the car. Another freeby is it will prevent that uneven wear you get on the side of your brake pedal because the pedals will be nearly even with each other and you won't be sliding your foot off the side of the brake pedal. My brake pedal still looks new.
And others here have previously not realized that there is another discussion, so I wanted to help with that, also.
I have no experience with the Yokohamas or the Michelins you mentioned, but I am currently running the Pirelli PZero Neros on my 300M. They are far better and quieter than the original Goodyears and provide roadholding in wet or dry conditions at least as good as the Goodrich GForce TA KDW's that I wore out 2 sets of before buying the Pirellis. I haven't had the opportunity to try the Pirellis in snow or ice, but I can attest that they are VERY good in dry or wet conditions. In fact, they are good enough in the wet, that you hardly notice the difference!
As to road noise, the Pirellis are far quieter than the Goodyears and were also quieter than the Goodrichs when I first installed the Pirellis. However, they seem to be getting a little noisier with added mileage. Of course, I don't have the old tires to compare any longer, so perhaps I just don't remember how much louder it used to be!
Does Pirelli make the PZero Nero in the original 300M size now? I use 245/45-17s on mine, mounted on 8 x 17 after market wheels.
Good luck with whichever tires you choose.
Lynn Flowers
McKinney, Texas
Sirius Radio - Did you get a factory unit or aftermarket? Does Crutchfield have anything to fit the M/LHS?
Does anyone know If the lenses can be replaced, or do I have to buy a complete set of headlight units (I hate to even call the Parts Dept to find out how much THAT would cost!!!)
The lexan lens can be sanded and polished with the proper abrasives and polish, costing only $10-$15. Either Mother's or Meguires (or both) has a product specifically for restoring lexan headlights.
Concerning the headlights... I had one of my headlight assemblies out one time to install those Sylvania Silverstars (no difference from my stock high beams) and noticed that the cover seems to be held in place with little, black, metal clips and a gray, rubber-like seal between the cover and the housing. Maybe that's just something on the Special (SIDENOTE: the Special doesn't have the neat little bubble level in the top of the housing like the '99s). I figured that I could remove the covers and clean them up when/if they become cloudy. I'll find out for sure in the coming years, I guess.
My 6 year old 99LHS has only 60K miles....so I think I'll keep it for a while!
6 Years ago when I saw my first 99 LHS and 300 on the lot there was an unmistakeable "WOW" factor that I just didn't get with the 2005 (although the plain 300 at 23K would be a great car for the wife....but she has only 20K miles on her Concorde...and loves it!)
Since I have been away from the boards I'm sure there has been a healthy, rigorous debate about the new 300...What have I been missing? What's the consensus?
Tayl0rd - Do you know if your OEM radio would be plug and play (other than the antenna) in a non-special??
Oh yeah, Ruski, didn't mean to slight you.
http://public.fotki.com/Scotian/300m/exterior/hood_rust/
Chrysler's replacing it.
With apologies to Troy McLure...
My '99 Platinum M is just shy of 59,000 miles and all is well. Still on two OEM Goodyears, which need to be replaced soon. Also time for a tranny fluid change and the brakes may need an inspection. Other than that, all is well. Washed and waxed the M a couple of weeks ago. For a 5 year old car, lookin' good. Just don't look too close at the parking lot dings and scrapes... : - (
I plan to keep the M through at least the end of the year, probably into '05. I do want a new car, but want to wait for some of the '05 new models/updates to come out. Plus the stock market is killing me...!
Go Sox!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I'm at 60K miles. I had the tranny fluid and filter changed at 30K, and am about to do it again at 60K.
Does anything else need to be done to the drive train?
My Owner's manual doesn't help either. On the Maintenance "A" Schedule, only transmission fluid and filters are mentioned all the way through.
On schedule "B", it mentions, separately,
- transmission fluid
- automatic transaxle fluid
- differential fluid
Any clarification would be appreciated!
>(SIDENOTE: the Special doesn't have the neat little bubble level in the top of the housing like the '99s.
Because of the risk of extreme glare to oncoming traffic, the Special HID's must be accurately adjusted using the actual pattern.
I believe the differential gears have their own sealed compartment and are lubed with hypoid gear oil.
I'm not clear on a distinction between transmission fluid and automatic transaxle fluid.
My service rep called me Saturday, and said they got a 300 C in and thought I would like to know, so he called me. I went over later in the day and took it for a run, with the wife and saleman on board and my Eagles Greatest Hits CD blasting in the stereo. It was Jade but it looked like a cross between Platinum and Silver to me. Reactions: Cabin was quieter, more leg room for the driver, good adjustment on the steering wheel, tranny was smoother, definitely smoother in autostick mode. Quick as lightning to 65 mph of the line, and fastest I got to was 80 mph on a 55 mph road. On balance, if all this great stuff and improvements were in a body design similar to, or as striking as, the 300M I would have had the check book out. Sticker was $33+K. Had no HD lights, no nav., no Sirius, no adjustable pedals [I don't think] and had a sunroof which I wouldn't have wanted anyway. Wife said it was nice ride, and I could have one if I wanted, since it was my turn for a new car, and wouldn't it be cheaper than a Vette. Geez...wish the exterior looked better, less stodgy. It was a runnin' dog though. If you go, get it in a Hemi....
I was looking at a 300C at the dealership and noticed that it has the Chrysler wing emblem in the middle of the trunk. Great -- now everyone will think I'm jealously copying the 300C, since I put one on my M a couple years ago (http://public.fotki.com/Scotian/300m/exterior/trunk_lock_removal- /mvc-883f.html). Actually, I was jealously copying the LHS.
Where's the best place to get 300M HIDs?
...And I still have a RWD "mentality" LOL!! My very first car was a 67 Firebird Convertible with a 400 engine and 4:11 gears in the rear end...I could burn rubber in all 4 gears....and that's with big ol L-60 tires in the rear!! I bought the car used, and it must have been used for drag racing...there was a special racing harness around the drive shaft designed to prevent the shaft from going through the floorboards (and probably up your "you-know-what"!!) in case it cut-loose from the u-joints while racing!!
The reason I ask is that I may have to replace my complete headlight assemblies because the lexan lenses are cloudy and scratched. If I do the replacement, and the HID will be a straightforward R&R in my 99 LHS, the price differential between the regular vs HID assemblies may be worth the switchover to HID...;.
I have no idea what's available for the LHS -- I know it has projector lenses, but as far as I know they are not designed for HID bulbs. By designed for HID, I mean at the very least they have a built-in light cutoff part that keeps the pattern very tight to not blind other drivers.