Can Honda get its mojo back?

fintail

For Accord coupes, I liked the 98-02 the most, especially the kind of NSX style rear end. Very sharp car for the time.

I'd like to know what happened in the entire Honda corporate design team, did a huge group quit or something?

tlong

I'd like to know what happened in the entire Honda corporate design team, did a huge group quit or something?

Alzheimer's? Drugs? It has to be something.

nippononly

Supposedly the TSX is going away although many (including myself) think it's a bad idea.

The TSX is too similar to the TL in size and not nearly competitive enough with other entry-lux cars that cost the same, that's the problem.

Of course, replacing it with a bunch of badge-engineered Civics in a new line called the ILX isn't the answer. From what I have read so far it seems they will include all three powertrains from the existing Civic in the new ILX, including the very uninspiring (and not direct-injected) 1.8 in the Civic DX. Seriously? In a car that will presumably start well above $20K??

Honda has a lot of work to do in the next few years just to avoid sinking into obscurity. I drove a Civic EX just before New Years and had the guy just about begging me to buy it, but in the end the only car I drove that I liked less was the totally tacky and outdated Corolla. Used to be, the name Civic would mean something. We will see if they bring their very best game to the 2013 MY redesign, because they sure need to.

stever

A reporter is looking to speak with someone who bought a new Honda or Toyota within the last two months. Specifically, he’s most interested in speaking with someone who intentionally held off on buying one of these vehicles last year because the dealer did not have it in stock. If you meet this criteria, please send a brief description of your experience and your contact info to pr@edmunds.com by no later than Wednesday, February 29, 2012.

stickguy

I think to some extent they have been living off their reputation for a while now. that is dangerous to do for too long, especially if you aren't bringing a new generation of buyers into the fold.

the only thing they have that vaguely interests me at this point is the CR-V 9for my wifes next car). Other than that, no reason to stop there when chopping. Though i did buy my volvo recently at an Acura delaer, and the place seemed busy...

tlong

...talking about just this subject. It pretty much confirms all of our suspicions about Honda. The good news is that they recognize the problem and are doing things to reverse it. It looks like the Accord redesign will be the next big test whether it is working.

After Civic bruising, Honda fights for its soul

anythngbutgm

2012 Honda Civic Dominates Compact Pack in February Sales Race

But wait, there were certain posters here telling us that the Civic sales were on a never ending slide and the Snuze was the new king? Tsunami? Never happened... :P

anythngbutgm

We Hear: Honda, Acura Getting ZF 9-Speed Automatic by 2014

On our most recent update of our long-term 2011 Honda Odyssey, we achieved an impressive 31 mpg average during a road trip up to the Bay Area. That number, however, could jump significantly on future Odysseys thanks to the possibility of a new 9-speed automatic gearbox from ZF.

stever

I got 29 several times on my '99 Quest (not lately though). A significant jump would be nice, but if you are going to a 9 speed AT, wouldn't you begin to think that a CVT would be less complicated and offer similar mpg?

anythngbutgm

I've driven both a Nissan with the CVT and more recently a new Subaru Impreza and the whine alone was enough to turn me off from CVT.

Also, even with the "Simulated" shift points, I prefer the conventional shift rather than the turbine type driving feel.

The CVT in the Subie was enough to negate the purchase of an otherwise great car. :sick:

stever

CVTs have been around long enough now to start improving the driver experience. With the past history of Honda minivan transmissions, I'm a bit leery of going to another level of complexity there.

anythngbutgm

Those transmissions were built in house by Honda tho, and even then I think the whole issue was overblown. They were high maintainence and you had to religiously stay on top of fluid changes but with proper maintainence they were just as reliable as any transmission out there IMO.

In any case, these ones are to be supplied by ZF who is a respected supplier for other automakers as well.

stickguy

no, even with scheduled fluid changes (or beyond) they were still a poor design and not really up to the task.

nippononly

So Auto News has an article today saying they estimate that the ILX will start at $27,000 when it arrives this year. Is Honda kidding here? $27,000 for a tarted-up Civic? The Honda version of the Civic is overpriced at $20,000 IMO.

Oh, and they say "Don't expect anything as sporty as the RSX or Integra" from the ILX. Really? Then why buy it? There are getting to be a really great bunch of choices at the $27K price point now, starting with the new BRZ/FR-S and the updated GTI (230 hp, 260 lb-ft) that will be out by fall....not to mention the WRX, the Mustang, etc. On the staid side of things I would much rather have the cheapest Buick (is it the Verano?) or an A3 for that money.

hpmctorque

I've been wondering how the ILX will differ from the Civic, and what content it will include. Haven't seen any details yet, other than engine choices. We can assume that one difference from the Civic will be that the ILX will have a 4 year/50,000 mile warranty. I imagine it'll also have better sound insulation, which has been a weak point with Civics. I'll grant you, though, that the ILX will need more differentiation than that to justify a roughly 1/3 higher price over the Civic.

The way I look at it, people understand value, especially in that price range, and they can't be fooled. For this reason I reserve judgement until I see more details, and comparisons with competing models.

By the way, the Verano is a nice car, and will offer a 2.0 turbo option for '13.

Kirstie_H

A reporter wonders what car-shoppers think of the new Acura ILX. If you care to share your opinion, please email PR@edmunds.com no later than Monday, April 23, 2012 with your comments and daytime contact information.

andre1969

that I'll be coming into the Honda fold. In a convoluted way, at least. Here's the story. Brevity never was my strong suit, so bear with me :P

Anyway, my uncle has a 2003 Corolla that has around 220,000 miles on it, if not more. It's been a good car, but it's also had a pretty rough life. Well, my uncle wants to put it in the shop, have the mechanic go over it thoroughly, and find out what all it needs. If it ends up being too catastrophic, I'm going to tell him to cut his losses, and just go get a new car.

Now, here's where I come in. My uncle would need my help in getting the replacement car, so I'd have some say in the matter. With luck, his Corolla won't need much, and he can keep driving it until it drops, but I want to keep my options open. Tentatively, I've been thinking about replacing it with a Civic or another Corolla. The Cruze has crossed my mind, but if we got a car, it would be a fairly basic model, and the Cruze doesn't really get good economy unless you get the more costly turbo or Ecotech models.

Anyway, what do y'all think of the latest Civic? I know it's taken some flak, but I have to confess that I kinda like it. I haven't driven one yet, or even sat in one, but I'm curious. The Corolla, while supposedly all-new for 2008, just seems like a heavy facelift of the 2003-2007.

On one hand, the Civic appears to be bigger inside and gets better economy than the Corolla, but on the other, the Corolla is probably cheaper.

So, if you were in my shoes, what would you do? I also thought about just getting a newer, but still used Corolla. A local dealership group with internet pricing has some in the 2009-2010 range, with around 35-40K miles, for around $14,000. Used Civics tend to be more sparse, and pricier.

Right now, my uncle drives his '03 Corolla to work on M-W-F, and I think it's about 90-100 miles round trip. On Tues/Thurs/Sat he drives his '97 Silverado to dialysis, and uses it for most of his local running around, as he finds it much more comfortable.

We went through a similar issue last week, when he put the truck in for a thorough going-over. It needed a new rear-end, intake manifold, distributor, and a ton of other stuff, and ultimately came to around $4800 to fix. And, that time, I had toyed with the idea of just getting a new truck instead of him putting all that money into the old one. I figured we could use his '97 as a trade-in, and then I could retire my aging, yet refusing-to-die '85 Silverado, and we could both use the new truck. But, he started rushing things, didn't give me time to check on insurance, dealer quotes, etc, got impatient, and authorized all that repair work. :mad:

I just don't want to see him make the same mistake with his Corolla.

Oh, and if we end up having to go the new car route, I'd plan on driving it from time to time as well, to make sure I got some use out of it, but he'd be the primary driver.

xrunner2

Andre. Been a long-time Honda, Acura, as well as GM and other brands owner. Currently have Acura TLs (plural) with wife and Ody.

My take on Civic is per Magazine reviewers. They mostly have not been kind to the 2012 version of Civic. In comparos, it does not do to well. Supposedly, Honda is rushing some kind of makeover of the 2012 due in 2013 model year. Maybe wait if possible for 2013, see how Honda redos it.

I did test drive the Honda 2-door fastback coupe a few years ago with manual and was impressed with its handling, brakes, interior, style, etc. Do not like the style of the current offerings. Have not test driven the 2012.

nippononly

and you should RUN, not walk, away from the Honda dealer. For Civic money, the Elantra is a much nicer and better-featured car if your uncle is more a rider than a driver. However, if he likes to DRIVE, the clear class leader is the Focus, no question. (well, I have only taken the Cruze on a very short drive so it might have merits I did not get the chance to discover, but the Focus is truly a standout).

As for Corollas, no way do you pay $14,000 for a 40K-mile Corolla right now, thaat's a $12K car max. You can get a brand new LE for $16,000+fees without even trying. Even so, the Corolla is in the basement of the compact class right now - don't buy one unless you must have a Toyota or want the cheapest car available. Or do like they mentioned above and limp that old Corolla along for one more year - next year the redesigned Corolla is coming in the spring, and of course there should be a HEAVILY redone Civic available this fall.

Of course, you being Andre, I couldn't close out without mentioning that the Dart will be along before too long......might be worth the wait to go with Mopar?! :-)

Edit....it seems like EVERYBODY is really trying hard to win customers right now, EXCEPT Honda and perhaps Toyota. What's up with that? They didn't just rest on their laurels, they chopped off their feet and cemented themselves PERMANENTLY to their laurels!

stickguy

I really, erally want to see the dart up close. I saw it on a platform at that auto show, but no touching or up close.

and IIRC, the Civic is actually selling real well right now. There are a lot of people that buy on nothing but the badge (reputation), MPG on the sticker, and price. Driving dynamics and interior quality are unknown qualities to them.

Sandman6472

Test drove both and was not impressed...the auto didn't feel right when shifting and the seats were uncomfortable. Both cars were just meh really...my '06 Civic drives better! Still believe the Elantra is the best compact on the market right now closely followed by the Mazda3. Haven't driven the new Civic yet but plan to soon.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

hpmctorque

I agree with you on each of your points, nippononly, except for your last paragraph. The fact that Honda has acknowledged the shortcomings of the '12 Civic, and is rushing an improved version to market, suggests that it understands that it can't rest on its laurels. Similarly, Mr. Toyoda, the president of Toyota, has publicly stated that Toyotas are too bland. He praised Volkswagen, and has oredered his engineers to design future Toyotas to handle more like VWs. That's evidnce that he gets it; offering the same old, same old, no matter how reliable, is no longer good enough. The upshot is that Honda and Toyota understand that the competition is better than it used to be, and that they must earn the privelege of retaining their positions.

I agree that the new Focus is a winner. The Mazda 3 has also gotten excellent reviews.

nippononly

Yes, I forgot to mention that the SkyActiv Mazda3 is a top contender in the compact class as well - it hardly costs any more than the non-SkyActiv 3 and gets the 40 mpg highway that everyone (except apparently Toyota) wants to advertise right now.

I agree with stickguy that people are just buying the Civic on the promo financing deals and the badge. I'm sure they will get a decently reliable Civic that they can drive for ten years just like the last one they had, but for that money the interior is unforgivably bare-bones (not to mention it still has the stupid two-tier dash and now also a really obtrusive IP computer) and it drives like crap. If you want a car that drives like a rolling couch, get an Elantra for less money with a much nicer interior and a longer warranty. Or a Corolla for dirt cheap, with the vaunted Toyota resale and long-term reliability.

As for Civic, well before we celebrate that Honda "gets it" now, let's just see if they give the thing a proper makeover or merely a slight warming up this fall. I expect it to be the latter, which still won't be good enough in this class.

andre1969

I really, erally want to see the dart up close. I saw it on a platform at that auto show, but no touching or up close.

I'm kinda curious to see the new Dart, as well. There are a few angles that I don't like it from but honestly, I'm going to find that with any car. And for a "compact" car, it's really not that small. I remember seeing some interior dimensions on it, being compared with other compact cars, and the Dart was bigger than the others in almost every respect. They even compared it to a 70's Dart, and even there it was bigger! The only thing they goofed on though, was that they used a 70's Dart hardtop coupe, instead of a sedan for comparison. The hardtop had a lower roofline and a bit less headroom, and about 4" less legroom in back.

As for the Civic, one reason it caught my eye is that, going on the published specs at least, the front seat appears to be downright midsized. And while shoulder room gets tighter in the back, legroom appears pretty good.

Anyway, my uncle hasn't put his Corolla in the shop yet, so at this point it's still a waiting game.

nippononly

that Honda set the base price of the ILX at $27 grand????!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

At that price, the only notable improvement over the Civic is the interior, and yes at that lofty price it still has a fairly crappy 2-liter powertrain making 150 hp and tested at 9.6 seconds 0-60. EPA-rated 24/35. You can get the Civic SI's powertrain, but I bet that trim will cost $30K or more.

Just think of all the competition in the entry-lux world in the upper $20Ks - who will buy the ILX?!

fintail

Wouldn't that compete directly with the barely more expensive bit likely nicer TSX? Dumb dumb dumb.

nippononly

Yes, and the TSX has a standard leather interior, for starters. That $27,000 ILX has cloth seats!

I'm sure they wanted to price it significantly above a Civic EX, which is in many respects what the base ILX is, and the Civic EX is overpriced at like $22K these days. In order to create a separation between the two, they have now overpriced the ILX as well. Oh well. They want to sell 40K per year, and I predict they will sell less than half that many, mainly to absolutely die-hard Honda fans who want the Acura badge and don't want to go the $3K more for a TSX.

I really LONG for the days when they still sold the RSX. While it was based on the Civic platform it was not a mere rebadge the way the ILX is by at least half. And the RSX was a real driver's car, which this ILX thing will be anything but.....

So many disappointments at Honda these days! I think they are selling about 5000 CRZs per year - that was a great investment of time and energy. All to produce a hybrid that doesn't even get better mileage than many of the econoboxes in the same class. I'm surprised they can unload 5000 of them annually.

Perhaps the 2013 Civic refresh and redesigned Accord will change my mind about this company, which seems to have gone straight down the toilet.

stickguy

you have to compare an ilx with the Si engine, since that is basically just the TSX engine anyway.

Have not seen the new model, but I would highly suspect the TSX is a nicer package overall. Car does have great seats.

anythngbutgm

So many disappointments at Honda these days!

You're not alone, unfortunately...

I treasure my 04's S2000, and at the moment I almost feel like I have to beacuse it doesn't look like things are going to improve until this company hits bottom...

I did read some good news the other day tho. Honda and Acura are commanding the highest reasale values in the industry. Unfortunately it may just add fuel to the fire which at the moment is the one that is burning alot of enthusiasts...

berri

Personally, I think that if you're thinking about trading a Honda, now is the time to do it before more buyers start wising up. Styling, quality and reliability, etc. - Honda may end up a bigger text book case on how to blow it than Toyota if they don't start getting it back together quickly.

nippononly

you have to compare an ilx with the Si engine, since that is basically just the TSX engine anyway.

Not sure where you were going with this remark, but the base-trim ILX does not have the SI engine. Now the interesting thing is that the ILX with the SI engine will be about $30K, and so is the base-trim TSX, which has the identical powertrain!

Only of course the ILX has cloth seats at that price, and the TSX has leather, something which may matter to entry-lux buyers. The ILX epitomizes the GM rebadging approach to incremental sales increases, and we can see how well that worked out for GM (hint: it resulted in a bankruptcy).......

stickguy

I meant if you were going to compare an ILX to a TSX, it should be the I with the Si engine, since that is basically the same powertrain as in the T.

hpmctorque

Acceleration might be a tad quicker for the ILX, since it's lighter than the TSX, and the ILX could enjoy a small mileage advantage too. That said, I think I'd choose the TSX, since it retains Honda's excellent double wishbone suspension.

stever

"American Honda Motor Co. has won a reversal of a high-profile small-claims case that would have forced the automaker to pay a Los Angeles woman nearly $10,000 for overstating the fuel-economy claims on the Honda Civic hybrid.

"Of course I'm disappointed,” said Heather Peters, who brought the suit, "but I'm still glad that I raised awareness that Honda is no longer the great brand that it used to be. They used to go the extra mile in customer service, now they go the extra mile fighting customers in court."

Honda wins reversal of Civic hybrid small-claims judgment (LA Times)

That's quite the sound bite; I suspect Ms. Peters has been polishing that one for a few weeks.

stickguy

that suit never made any sense. If she needed to sue someone, it should have been the Feds. Honda just followed the rules as defined, and posted the results as instructed. Never a guarantee you would get a specific result.

hey, would she have screamed, yelled and sued if she was getting 5 MORE than what the sticker said?

stever

The problem I had with the case was that Honda reflashed the computer and zapped the mpg by doing so.

And if Honda had clean hands, why did they agree to pay owners $100 (and the plaintiffs' lawyers $8 million)?

fintail

Maybe cheaper to ante up a pittance than let the most litigious society in history slowly bleed you dry?

If the issue was repeated en masse in every market where the car is sold, maybe it could be seen as a real issue. Seems like another loud lawyer until then - maybe not really different from the Toyota fiasco. And I am not one to defend corporations (even though they are people too, my friend :shades: )

cannon3

has stumbled but not fallen. Honda will be fine. They stop, take a deep breath and get back to work. I believe Honda and Mazda are going to eventually fill niche vehicle segments of sorts. I don't think we have seen the last of the automobile industry re shaping itself. There may even be more mergers in the next decade and maybe even a few more bankruptcies.

stickguy

Honda is far from what it used to be, and I don't expect they will ever go back to that. A bigger question is, will they be able to stay completely independent, or will they end up in bed with another maker too?

hpmctorque

As improbable as it may sound, a Honda-Fiat might make strategic sense, but culturally, not so much.

I read that Marchionne made overtures to Mazda. This combination might make more sense than a Honda-Fiat one, but here too the corporate cultures probably wouldn't mesh.

stickguy

adding Mazda to the Fiat-Chrysler mix seems to make some sense. Gives them some technology that seems to fit their style, and the far east presence that they are lacking. Plus, mazda seems a lot easier organization to absorb/merge with. Honda, that just seems like a tough nut to crack.

hpmctorque

In addition to technology, I was thinking of distribution. where Fiat has a strong presence and manufacturing facilities in some major markets of Latin America, and Mazda is stronger than Fiat in parts of Asia. Also Chrysler and Jeep have products that Mazda could badge engineer, or simply sell as-is in markets where it has distribution, and visa-versa (eg. the Miata [it even sounds Italian]).

anythngbutgm

Beating out the Mitsubushi MiEV...

2013 Honda Fit EV Rated at 118 MPGe by EPA, Highest for All-Electric Car

hpmctorque

Expensive savings! From today's Detroit Free Press...

"At an equivalent of 118 m.p.g., the electric Honda Fit is the most fuel-efficient vehicle in the U.S. But getting that mileage isn't cheap.

Honda announced the eye-popping figure Wednesday, making the small, four-door hatchback more efficient than electric rivals like the Ford Focus, Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi i-MiEV. It goes on the market this summer in Oregon and California.

The electric Fit has an estimated price tag nearly twice as high as the gasoline-powered version. It would take 11 years before a driver makes up the difference and begins saving on fuel.

With gas prices falling, high sticker prices for electric vehicles are becoming more of a barrier for American buyers, even though the vehicles are far more efficient than their gas-powered counterparts.

Through May, carmakers sold just over 10,000 electric vehicles, less than 0.2% of U.S. car and truck sales.

That's because the numbers don't add up for the average consumer.

• The electric Fit needs 28.6 kilowatt hours of electricity to go 100 miles. At a national average price of 11.6 cents per kilowatt hour, that costs $3.30.

A gas-powered Fit, which gets 31 m.p.g., needs to burn 3.2 gallons to travel 100 miles. At the national average price of $3.57 per gallon of gasoline, that's $11.52.

• People drive an average of almost 13,500 miles a year, so a typical driver would spend $445 on electricity for an electric Fit over a year, and $1,552 on gasoline for a regular Fit.

• The price of an electric Fit is $29,125 after a $7,500 federal tax credit. That's $12,210 more than the gas-powered Fit -- a savings of $1,107 per year to make up the difference between the electric and the gas-powered version.

Customers don't want to spend the extra money up front and wait for years for payback, said Geoff Pohanka, who runs 13 dealerships in Virginia and Maryland.

'People are smart. They're looking for the deal,' he said. 'Is somebody going to fork out $15,000 more for something that gets them less range than their car now? It's not happening.'

At first, Honda will be leasing Fit EVs only in Oregon and California, for $389 per month. The subcompact seats up to five people and can be recharged in three hours with a 240-volt charging station. A fully charged Fit EV can go 82 miles, meaning a daily commute could cost nothing for gasoline.

Jesse Toprak, vice president of market intelligence for the car buying site TrueCar.com, said he tested an electric Chevrolet Volt, driving it less than 35 miles a day from his Los Angeles-area home to work and back. The cost of leasing it -- $369 a month -- is comparable to the $300 he would spend on gas.

'In a lot of these cases, I'm surprised that people are not lining up to get these things,' he said.

The comparison between gas and electric cars also can vary with geography, largely because energy prices vary wildly across the country. In Oregon, where gasoline is 18% more expensive than the national average and electricity is 16% lower, an electric Fit will save $121 per month in fuel. In Connecticut, which has the highest power prices in the country, the monthly savings are just $83."

stickguy

also missing from the equation is the cost of owning a 2nd car, or renting one, every time you need to leave the immediate area.

I would actually be a good caniddate, since most of my driving right now is short hop local, but on occasion I do need to take a trip. so every time I needed to do that, I would have to source another car, as opposed to now where 1 is enough.

I could see it being fine for people that have a consistent commute and a car dedicated to that, with something like a SUV for weekend/travel duty. If you were using 2 cars anyway, that just might pay off with a cheap lease.

nippononly

the 2013 Accord is getting a CVT for an automatic??? :-(

The first U.S. car with the new powertrain, a direct-injection engine mated to a newly developed continuously variable transmission, will be the redesigned Accord.

Is this horrible excuse for a transmission going to end up pervading the car industry in automakers' desperate quest for fuel economy?

As for this "Earth Dreams" plan for new powertrain technology, I see it still predictably excludes the new diesel from U.S. distribution. Is this going to be the answer to their prayers? They don't seem to be doing anything more than catching up to the market at this point. And now I assume the new Fit next year will also have a CVT...blecch.

Yet despite tight purse strings, (new president of Honda) Ito re-invested in new technology -- especially drivetrain technologies -- to compensate for Honda's lackluster hybrid system and to match the cutting-edge fuel-injection engines offered by rivals.

"We had to improve the fuel economy of our cars," Ito said. "I immediately began laying the preparations necessary to achieve this. We tried to innovate our engines and transmissions while also coming out with a fuller lineup of hybrid models."

What ensued was a suite of six new engines, three transmissions and two hybrid systems known collectively as Earth Dreams. The common thread is the addition of fuel-injection technology and continuously variable transmissions. A 1.6-liter diesel engine is also part of the mix, though there are no plans to bring that to the United States. The goal: to achieve industry-topping fuel efficiency in every vehicle class in three years.

Ito compares the impact of Earth Dreams to that of the famed CVCC engine project from the 1970s that cemented Honda's image as an engine company first and foremost.

"In talking about the impact on our business, it is as important as CVCC," Ito said. "This is very, very big."

I disagree, although it is a step in the right direction. Is Ito old enough to remember how revolutionary CVCC really was? He should be, he's older than me and I remember.

http://www.autonews.com/article/20120611/OEM02/306119994/1427

andre1969

also missing from the equation is the cost of owning a 2nd car, or renting one, every time you need to leave the immediate area.

I would actually be a good caniddate, since most of my driving right now is short hop local, but on occasion I do need to take a trip. so every time I needed to do that, I would have to source another car, as opposed to now where 1 is enough.

I'm in a similar situation, as my job is only 2.5 miles away, and I usually don't go anywhere that's more than 15-20 miles from home. But sometimes I do take a road trip here and there, so I do need the distance on occasion.

I don't think I'd ever be in the market for a pricey hybrid or all-electric vehicle though, because I just don't drive enough for it to make sense. My 2000 Park Ave goes about 900 miles per month, and has been averaging around 21 mpg since I've had it. Even with its appetite for Premium, I'm just not spending a whole lot per month. When it was around $4/gal, that would've come out to around $172 per month (900 miles per month @21 mpg = ~43 gal, or $172 @4/gal).

As for an all-electric vehicle, well I pay around 13.5 cents per KWH. So if it takes 28 KWH to go 100 miles, I figure 900 miles per month would be around $34? So, I'd save about $138 per month in fuel, compared to my Buick.

As little as I drive, it's hard to put a priority on fuel efficiency, since it comes at such a high total cost (increased insurance, car payments, the up-front sales tax of buying a new car, etc).

ispano

Honda is far ahead on future technologies that other manufacturers really haven't much options than to stick to petrol burning cars. Save for Toyota and BMW , everyone else needs to buy systems from the aforementioned two.

Truth is HONDA Has already developed the next generation vehicle with the FCX Clarity and BMW is almost there. Lithium ion is a hold over for fuel cell, which WILL take off in the future. A lot of people here only think about 3-5 years into the future, where Honda is covering its bases for the next 15-50 years. Their goal is to be a 100 year company, and it will take baby steps as it sees fit. It's like the turtle vs the hare, and we all know how that goes. Honda developed its direct injection system in 2003 and has been working to perfect it without rushing it to market like some other brands. The new accord is going to be one of the only sedans offered with a 6spd manual, at and a separate cvt. The 6AT is not the same as the CVT, which in itself should be an improvement over any other cvt in the market.

Honda doesn't need a merger with another brand, though some brands like lotus ought to consider it. Honda has far less employees than toyota and nissan, too. Much of the criticism of Honda has been design, which is a completely subjective issue. There's a reason why Honda was chosen by the union of concerned scientists as the greenest automobile manufacturer. Honda is also working with Stanford and Google for future technologies, as well as having developed carbon nanotube technology with other notable institutions in the US.

Honda has matured and in the process has become responsible. Today's consumers are arrogant, misinformed, need to have it now fools of perception. If consumers were really smart, they would stop buying petrol burning cars and would embrace fuel cell. But they would rather pay for cheaper gas than the upfront costs in taxes or premiums to support the initial costs of switching to such an infrastructure which they cast off as too big an undertaking.

Honda has dreams for the future with the motto Blue Skies For Our Children being a major catalyst. Honda has a commercial called the Impossible Dream - its lyrics are Fitting to its cause. And Honda isn't out to win popular design contests - they are out to do the right thing which is to usher in the clean era of personal locomotion. Unfortunately, Lithium ion is a necessary evil/stopgap until politicians and big oil special interests are removed from the positions that inhibit advancement. As long as there are intelligent people in this world there will be a Honda engineering cars for them. The next milestone is the 2026 mandate and it will not be petrol cars that will achieve the regulation requirements.

nippononly

With Honda saving the world, I guess the rest of us can kick back and have a drink! ;-)

Edit....wow, the ILX has been available for about five minutes and already I am seeing the $249/month lease special in TV ads.

stickguy

I have seen them a couple times when i was at the Acura dealer looking at the RDX. Not bad looking, but nothing special style wise (and does not look exactly like a Civic, but if you know it is under there...)

Does have a nice looking interior.

Just a bit weak engine wise for the high (30K+) price tag.

Me, I would spend a little extra to get the TSX. As I suspect many other people will, especially if they want an AT.

A 6 speed 2.4 could be interesting, if you want a Civic Si with more luxury features and better seats.