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Comments
It is? It got a tackier interior and no substantial improvements except fuel economy, and even with the new higher EPA figures it is still not at the head of the compact pack.
I guess I just don't understand how Honda can be so clueless. They hit home runs for 20-30 years, now the next model gets tackier at a time when Hyundai/Kia and Ford are coming on strong? It doesn't make any sense.
One thing that I read that was disappointing about the 2012 Civic is that one of the negatives on the previous generations of Civics, road noise, hasn't been addressed. This has been a long standing criticism of Civics, albeit not a major one, but why the heck didn't Honda finally fix it? To a lesser extent, Accords also allow more road noise to enter the cabin than they should.
I understand that sound insulation adds weight, which, in turn, hurts fuel economy. Maybe Honda doesn't think the tradeoff would be worthwhile.
Well they are going to have to try something radically new then, because they are one of the lightest of the compact group, and they are still in like fourth place for fuel economy.
And you would think the low weight would contribute to better handling, but how could you even tell with steering that numb? And even not factoring that in, the handling is sloppy. I know, I drove one. It was unimpressive before, it is worse now.
I am trying to find a dealer with an SI in stock, to see if they also made that one worse.
What's really unbelievable is that THIS is the result of waiting an extra year and going back to the drawing board as they claim they did. What the heck was it GOING to be??
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I rented a Fiesta for several days in Arizona last month, and was very impressed. Its performance and driving dynamics exceeded my expectations.
Larger.
The 2011 Civic, in comparison, only has 53.7" of shoulder room, but 42.2" of legroom. So, technically, the older one had more legroom, but I've found that those numbers don't always seem to jive up. My 2000 Intrepid had 42.2" of legroom, but it felt roomier than the 2006-11 Civic. And the replacement Magnum/Charger/300 were only rated at something 41.8 inches, yet legroom felt better in them than it did in my Intrepid! :confuse:
However, I'm really not that crazy about a small car with sloppy handling. And I've always thought Hondas were supposed to handle somewhat sporty. Maybe not quite as sporty as a Nissan or Mazda, but moreso than a Toyota at least.
one of my biggest gripes in the front seat. The lack of lumbar adjustment is one issue (common problem on Honda's, even ones that do adjust, is your range is from "too much" to "way too much"), But mostly, the infernal ratchet lever height adjustment.
I like to sit with the front cushion elevated for thigh support. But I don't like to sit on the floor, all laid back. And those single lever seats tend to pitch you forward when you raise it (always reminded me of one of those old people recliners with the motor to dump you out of the chair!)
the driver's seat was actually the primary reason I ended up with the Accord in 2005. I really went in to check out the (then new model) 2006 Civic!
in the good old days, even cheaper cars (protege, elantra) had seperate front/rear height adjuster knobs, which worked great. recently, they all switched to single levers.
there are very few cars that I can be satisifed with that don't have power seats at this point.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Anyways, I actually liked it quite a bit. In sport mode especially, it drives like a Civic. The gearbox was a big step down from my S2k or other hondas like the Si tho, and one thing that annoyed me was there is no lockout for reverse... :sick: So basically, if you are not careful going from 5th to 6th, there is a chance you can go into reverse. I can't figure out why companies like Honda bother re-doing one of the best gearboxes in history...
But other notable positives are the seats and the interior room. My wife likened the space to her old Mercedes C-class koupe, the seats go back enough to fit her long legs while the gearbox and steering wheel still fell right in place. Me, the shorter frame that I am was able to move the seats forward and still found the shifter and steering placement perfect with just a few tweaks. One thing that also surprised me was the visibility out the back. At first, I thought it was going to be terrible and the transparent glass panel on the back was going to be blocked by the rear deck. But not so. I was able to see just fine out the back and the transparent panel was very helpful when backing out of a parking spot.
I didn't really get a good idea of the mileage, but I kep[t it in Sport mode the entire time so it was not optimal. That's probably where I would keep it anyways
All in all, a very tight, zippy car with plenty of that old Honda charm IMO. If I didn't have to deal with the harsh N.E. winters, I would definitely drive one.
Honda To Add 1,000 Jobs At Indiana Civic Plant (AutoObserver)
I don't know that anything could have been as big a disappointment as the 2008 Accord.
I guess I must really go against the grain, because I kinda like the 2008+ Accord!
I wonder if that's an omen for Honda...if Andre likes it, then the mass market won't? :P
Maybe the new one will look like a 2000 Park Avenue.....
I just think the current Accord doesn't feel like a Honda at all. More like a Toyota.
I found it funny at the mid-cycle refresh they added that red reflector across the top of the trunk. It literally looks like lipstick on a pig. Amazingly, though, it looks better that way.
Just as long as it doesn't handle like one! I drove my '79 5th Ave today, and I swear, I feel more at home behind the wheel of that thing than I do my Park Ave. Even though it's about 14" longer, and on a ~5" longer wheelbase, it just feels more manageable. Leave it to GM to make a car feel bigger than it really is!
I just think the current Accord doesn't feel like a Honda at all. More like a Toyota.
Did the 2002-2006 Camry tend to sell better than the 2003-2007 Accord? If so, then maybe Honda tried to do that, to go after an older crowd? I think the main reason I'm drawn a bit to the 2008+ Accord is that I like its proportions. It seems like the hood, roof, and decklid are all proportioned well, with respect to each other, and the headlights seem properly sized. I'm glad to see that Honda, and the otehrs, have started to move away from that oversized startled-deer-in-the-headlghts look.
I think Honda thinks I'm older than I do. The calendar agrees with them unfortunately.
Sounds like they are expecting increasing success from the new Civic
Actually I bet it wasn't, I bet first place went to the Focus.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And the Civic? Looks exactly like it has for the last six years, despite the so-called redesign. I swear the average consumer would have no idea this car has been updated at all, just walking around it. Then they would get in and sit down and sadly wonder who took out the nice interior materials from the earlier years.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
"In a deft move intended to strike the heart of Honda Civic sales, Hyundai will unveil its future Elantra coupe late this fall at the 2011 Los Angeles Auto Show."
Inside Line
Too early to tell... But as a data point, I still have seen a half a dozen Snuzes and they came out 6 months ago! The new Corollas tho, for some reason are popping up everywhere, along with the Elantras. New Focus are rare although I did see a pair of wagons which looked pretty cool. But I digress...
Here are the six vehicles that emerged...:
• 2011 Ford Explorer
• 2011 Honda Civic – The Honda Civic stayed relatively consistent in year-over-year sales with an increase of just over seven percent, ranking as the No. 5 overall most purchased vehicle in April 2011.
Consumer Interest Ranking: 23
Day Supply: 23 days
MSRP: $15,805
• 2011 Hyundai Elantra
• 2011 Hyundai Sonata.
• 2011 Kia Sorento
• 2011 Toyota Prius
There have been lots of people ragging on the current generation Accord, and I have to say that overall I don't agree. I own a loaded 08 EXL, and it's by far the best car I've ever owned. But, I have to say that the styling is only so so. I like it from the side, and I'm now fully used to it for the front and back, but it just doesn't have the sleek feel I used to expect from Honda.
But for me, in terms of the engineering and build quality, my 08 Accord is so far beyond the 02 Accord we used to have that it still amazes me. Where the 02 sometimes felt a little tinny, the doors on our 08 close like a bank vault.
The handling on the 08, I have to admit, is a bit sloppier than the 02. In terms of room inside, the 08 definitely feels like it has more, even though our 08 has a moonroof which robs some headroom.
In terms of MPG the cars are the same. And given that the 08 is larger and weighs c. 200 lbs more and has a more powerful and larger engine, that seems pretty impressive.
But given all that, I am looking forward to a slimmed down 2013 Accord....
I'm actually impressed that the '08 only weighs 200 lb more, considering how much bigger it feels.
On a similar note, a few months ago, I rode in my coworker's Camry, which is a '97-99 model. And honestly, I thought it kinda sucked. Now granted, it's had over a decade to age, but again, it just shows how much better cars have gotten, and how, once you take off the "rose tinted glasses", those older models that we look fondly on aren't so hot. My Mom and stepdad still have a '99 Altima. I drove it about a month ago, and it doesn't seem like any great shakes either. Now, it does have around 330,000 miles on it, and I'm impressed at how well it's held up. But overall, it feels like a cheap, yet well-built car. If that makes sense. Well-built in that it's lasted all those miles and is still pretty tight and rattle-free, but it still feels a bit tinny, and the interior is nothing to brag about.
Honda should be worrying about Hyundai. They are the scrappy upstart (like Honda used to be) and cars like the Sonata and Elantra are going to eat Honda's lunch if they are not careful. Like Toyota, Honda's excellent reputation is carrying them, probably a bit out of proportion to the quality of Honda's latest offerings. But that isn't going to last forever. I also hope to see a slightly smaller and better-styled new Accord. Isn't the CRV also due for a redesign?
You're right. But if history holds, they too will step in it at some point in time. I expect it will be sooner than it took Toyota because they are growing so quickly.
OK. Anyone care for a guessing game of what the next generation Accord, which is due a bit more than a year from now, will be in terms of dimensions, weight, performance, etc.? Make your guesses and preferences for the 2013 Accord...
Here for reference are some stats on the current gen base model (LX) Accord:
Width: 72.7 in.
Height: 58.1 in.
Length: 194.1 in.
Wheel base: 110.2 in.
Cargo capacity: 14.7 cu.ft.
EPA interior volume: 120.7 cu.ft.
Curb weight: 3217 lbs.
Base engine size: 2.4 L
Cam type: Double overhead cam (DOHC)
Valve timing: Variable
Horsepower: 177 hp @ 6500 rpm
EPA mileage est. (cty/hwy): 23/33 mpg
Translation: The Accord needs to get smaller and lighter. This will allow it to get a smaller but more advanced engine and higher mpg.
My great but somewhat bloated Accord is clearly going to be the largest ever made. I think it's smaller from here on out.
But smaller can be better.
Here are my guesses:
width: 72 (cutting 7/10th of an inch there)
Height: 57.8 (lost 1/4th of an inch there--a little bit swoopier and more aerodynamic)
length: 190 (4 inches gone there--taking it down to the length of the new Sonata)
weight: 3100 (120 pound diet)
cargo: 14.7 (no change there)
interior vol: 120 still--to stay in the "large" category and compete with Sonata
engine 2.2
horsepower: 190
epa: 26/36
Just guesses, I know...
I don't see the next Accord getting smaller. Lighter, yes, as we witnessed a 150lb drop in Civic weight. But size-wise, the reason for the Accord being bigger over the years is because Honda doesn't have the luxury of an Avalon, Maxima or Taurus above to compete for those class of vehicles.
What I mean is, there is a meat and potatoes class of car which is consistently the largest portion of car sales every month. The midisze sedan. The Camry, the Altima, and previously for years, the Taurus were all top sellers along with the Accord for Honda. All of them have gotten larger as well but those companies kept the size small enough to not impede on their next class of Avalons for Toyota, Maxima's for Nissan, etc.
Honda tried to strike a balance, in a way (gutsy, smooth, but not strained, 4 cylinders to keep up with the lighter competition for instance) but size-wise I believe they went for the larger size to appease the American Appetite for larger cars.
The current generation of Altima and Camry are actually a bit smaller inside than their forebears. In the case of the Altima, it dropped from 103 cubic feet of interior volume and a 16 cubic foot trunk, to 101 and 15. I got these numbers from the EPA website. Now keep in mind that they round off, so the old Altima could have actually been 102.5 and 15.5, while the new one could be 101.4 and 15.4, so in theory the differences could be marginal. However, the new Altima does feel a bit smaller inside to me. Still adequate, though.
In the case of the Camry, it went from 102/17 to 101/15.
Surprisingly, the Maxima actually shrunk up quite a bit with the latest redesign. The older style was rated 104/16, while the new one has been trimmed to 96/14. I think Nissan's trying to return the Maxima to its sportier roots for its flagship sedan, and make it feel a bit more premium, whereas Toyota's going the more traditional route and making the Avalon bigger, and roomier than a Camry.
So, Honda was the only one to take the Accord up a notch. The current model is rated 106/15, while the 2003-07 was rated 103/14.
I never realized how much a sunroof can take out of those interior measurements, though. In the current Accord, it knocks passenger volume down from 106 to 101 cubic feet. In the '03-07 model, it takes it from 102.7 to 97.7 cubic feet.
In the Camry, the sunroof drops interior volume a bit less drastically, from 101.4 cubic feet to 99.7. I found these numbers googling around on the internet. It's not hard with Hondas and Toyotas, since some of their trim levels come with a standard sunroof and some don't. On cars where the sunroof is a separate option, it's harder to track down how much it reduces interior volume.
I hope they don't go with the swoopy rear roof of the Sonata and so many cars today. That kind of design robs rear headroom and usually has bad visibility.
So 4 numbers for the 1986 4-door Accord (LX model), 4 for the 1990, 1994, 1998, 2003, and 2008. If not, that's fine, but I'd be interested to see those numbers...
I'm wondering if the next gen 2013 Accord might get back a little closer to the 2003 generation--at least in terms of size, but perhaps with sligthly lighter weight.
177.8" long
66.5" wide
2421 lb (DX sedan), 2482 lb (LX sedan), 2568 lb (LX-i sedan...I guess this one morphed into the EX, eventually?)
2.0 4-cyl engine with 98-110 hp
1990 Accord:
184.8" long
67.9" wide
2737 lb (DX sedan), 2857 (LX), 2923 (EX)
2.2 4-cyl engine with 125-130 hp
1994 Accord:
184.0" long
70.1" wide
2800 lb (Edmund's lists this weight for all 3 trim levels, which is probably a misprint)
2.2 4-cyl engine with 130-145 hp
1998 Accord:
188.8" long
70.3" wide
2888 lb (DX sedan), 2987 (LX)3020 lb (EX)
2.3 4-cyl engine with 135-150 hp
2003 Accord:
189.5" long
71.5" wide
3049 lb (DX sedan), 3053 (LX) 3109 lb (EX)
2.4 4-cyl engine with 160 hp
2008 Accord:
194.1" long
72.7" wide
3230 lb (LX sedan), 3349 lb (EX)
2.5 4-cyl engine with 177-190 hp
It looks like the biggest size jump occurred in 1990, when the car added 300+ lb in weight and 7" in length. I always thought the 1994 looked a lot smaller, even though the actual difference was less than an inch. However, the '94 was a few inches wider, so that might've helped give it a chubbier look.
I'm also surprised at how little difference there is in length between the '98 and '03 Accord, as the '03 seems a lot bigger, and a lot more comfy, to me. IMO, the '03 Accord was the first Accord to actually feel "midsized" to me, although the EPA classified the '08 as an intermediate as well. The '90 and '94 were compacts, and the '86 was actually a subcompact! Now, with the '08 nudging into full-sized territory, I wonder if the Accord is the only nameplate to actually span all four size classes?
Yeah, I was thinking that, as well. And I'm guessing that a/c was finally made standard on the DX for 2003, which would explain why there was only a few pounds difference by that time?
One was parked next to a late mazda 626 (last style before becoming the supersized 6). man, it dwarfed the mazda. height, and huge butt. Looked like a new taurus next to an escort.
also, for interior room, height is a waste to me. As long as you have enough, another couple of inches, while it adds to the stated volume, is of no practical value. If you ain't hitting the roof with your head, you got enough.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
That's the way I feel. And even worse, sometimes they'll make the passenger cabin taller, but also raise the height of the seat. So, the stated headroom number is higher, but there's a chance you might actually have LESS useable room!
Also, I've always wondered where they measure front headroom at? With the seat all the way back? Most cars don't have flat roofs these days, so the position of the seat can make a world of difference. For instance, with my old Dodge Intrepid, the further you put the seat back, the more headroom you had. So, at 6'3" and having the seat all the way back and a little reclined, I had plenty of headroom. But I have a great-aunt who used to have an Intrepid, and ultimately got rid of it because it messed her hair up! She was only about 5'8", but sat fairly far forward and with the seat upright. And she always had her hair done up, kinda like Betty White on "Mama's Family" which I'm sure required a bit more headroom!
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I was driving around in my 08 Accord today doing errands. I still really like the car, but it is big. And you see them everywhere, so it has certainly been a big success for Honda.
The greater height inside is nice imho--because even someone who is 5' 10" like me still has plenty of headroom even with the moonroof. I think someone 6' 2" would probably even be fine. I don't think that would have been true with an Accord from the 90s with a moonroof, but I'm not sure.
Well, for comparison, here's the stats for the '12 Civic LX:
177.3" long
69.0" wide
2641 lb
1.8L 4-cyl with 140 hp.
So, about as long, but I have a feeling that extra 2+ inches of width will make the car feel a lot bulkier. The new Civic is pretty roomy inside as well. The EPA rates it at 95 cubic feet of passenger volume, which is more than the '90 or '94 Accords, which I think had 94. The '86 Accord only had 89. The Civic comes up short in trunk space though, around 12-13, depending on who's doing the rounding off. The '86 and '90 Accords were rated at 14 cubic feet according to the EPA, and 13 for the '94.
I just looked at the prices and I was amazed. If I'm reading the Honda site correctly, for $23455 you can get a 2012 Civic EXL Navi. And for $23905 (just $450 more!) you get the Si Navi Sedan with the 2.4 201hp Acura TSX engine, a 360 watt 7 speaker stereo (compared to the 160 watt 6 speaker on the EXL), special exterior, special interior, sport suspension, 6 speed manual, limited slip differential......
All of that for $450....? Jeeze I want one! That sounds like Honda mojo to me, for the admittedly very, very small performance market...
By the way, I'd like mine in Alpine White....Red just seems like bait for a ticket if you ever go even slightly over the speed limit.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I am kinda curious to see what one is like to drive.