Can Honda get its mojo back?

stever

"Honda Motor Co has warned U.S. dealers that it is not sure if it will be able to resume full production at certain Japanese plants before May, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing a memo distributed by the automaker." (Reuters)

ruking1

Most Accord/Civic's (for example, but, etc.) are made in states. I am sure all of us wish Honda GODSPEED in recovery.

isellhondas

If you had owned my old 1966 GTO you would have thought the one you had was an economy car! It used to get between 7 and 10 MPG on premimum fuel.

Those were the days of the REAL GTO's!

isellhondas

As I understand it, it's some of the suppliers that hot affected the worst.

This will affect US production too.

What a tragedy and, for once, I agree with Obama when he used the word "heartbreaking".

The fragile world we all live in...

ruking1

With 3 deuces or even a 4 barrel carb (1967's had 4 barrels) that is one of the real nightmares. Even @ .25 cents a gal !! :lemon:

stever

Good point - the suppliers may be the real sticking point.

Japan's Auto Concerns Shift to Suppliers (AutoObserver)

lemko

My Dad had a 1965 GTO convertible. That truly was a cool car.

isellhondas

All of the early GTO's had a four barrel except the ones that had three two's.

Wait, that's not right. they actually made for some bizarre reason, an "economy GTO that had lower compression and a two barrel.

Mine had a four barrel.

My 1965 Buick Riviera with 2 4's was even worse on gas and, no, I never saw premimum for 25 cents a gallon.

stever

"A spokesperson for American Honda Motor Co. Inc. said today that although some media outlets have reported normal auto production at assembly plants in Japan affected by last week’s earthquake and tsunami may not resume until May, the company does “intend to build cars in Japan in April and May.”

Honda Not Suspending Japan Production Until May (AutoObserver)

ruking1

Well I do have to say Honda has come a LONG way since that time! I remember thinking after hearing horror stories that you couldn't pay ME to drive a Honda (car product) @ that time, even as Honda motor bikes were actually pretty reliable.

cannon3

77,000 Civic Hybrids recalled today..

No one can dispute Honda's reliability history. However over the last decade all car companies have increased their reliability ratings. Some categories are even ahead of Honda for some models. As consumers start to realize Toyota/Honda no longer have the relaibility key safe in their pockets you are going to see consumers open their eyes to other makes and models. This is called competition. With the Cruze, Focus, Elantra and new Mazda 3 coming out the Civic is going to falter in this segment. Consumers are going to be looking for more innovation, more quality materials, more safety, just plain more. Consumers are also going to be looking for more styling and character. Honda has become complacent, but so did Ford and GM and they are bouncing back into favor with consumers. Its all a cycle.

stever

33,000 Odysseys too, for weak wipers (AutoObserver).

No big deal; Ford's recall count this week is ten times that for bad tires on pickups. (Chicago Tribune)

288,000 Elantras are being recalled for faulty air bag sensors. (WUSA9)

That's all just this week. And there's more out there from various makes I didn't bother to link. If you go by recalls, no model is reliable. It's gotten so bad in fact that people are starting to ignore recalls.

ruking1

I for one have notice in direct comparisons (like miles) of "Honda" "consumable parts" are not as durable as say VW consumable parts. One in effect can say, the "bean counters" have taken over. You can even see it in ( the industries that probably are bigger consumer of parts than the owners themselves), auto repair and body shops, etc, etc. Even as OEM Honda parts are less durable, they want to use even cheaper (and probably less durable) AFTER MARKET parts. After a while unless a part comes directly from the dealer, OE parts really is code for oe REPLACEMENT parts.

I think we are even way past counterfeiting the genuine parts. We are in effect counterfeiting the counterfeit parts.

tlong

No one can dispute Honda's reliability history. However over the last decade all car companies have increased their reliability ratings. Some categories are even ahead of Honda for some models.

Since you are posting all over the place about the Toyota and Honda recalls, are you going to post when GM and C and F have recalls, too? Or is this just an attempt to discredit the foreign nameplates?

ruking1

I think those other OEM's MIGHT be gaining on Honda when their resale values start to approach that of Honda's. Till then, they are still in the "wannabe" category. So I would swag that 5 years to 10 years would be a reasonable time frame to see how any "wannabe's" used car prices fare in the marketplace in comparison to Honda's.

isellhondas

Oh, big deal. Most recalls amount to nothing.

Yes, competition is fierce and people have short memories about GM and the "me too" Korean cars.

Honda can't rest on their laurels but I doubt if they will "falter".

ruking1

Just to use examples, it is curious to me what a 5 year old Cruse and Elantra will be going for in 2016. While I have had the 04 Civic for 118,000 miles and going on 8 (MY) years, the resale value is nevertheless, ...impressive (aka % loss off either MSRP/dealer cost when one bought it new).

hpmctorque

Since you use synthetic oil, if I remember correctly from another discussion, you may get another 200,000 miles out of your Civic. Of course, you might not want to keep it that long. Do you have a manual or automatic transmission?

ruking1

I run Mobil One ( 0w20 to 5w20 ) synthetic. I run 20,000 miles OCI's. Over the years, I have read in several places in passing that Honda engines run well with Mobil One. (ExxonMobil)

There is sort of a catch 22 going on with the oil filter change recommendation @ 20,000 miles. Since it seems to consume app 1/4 to 1/2 qt of oil in 20,000 miles, it presents the dilemma of: do I just ADD or change ? Since the sump is 3.5 qts, an app 1 quart refresh would add 29% to 20,000 miles or an OCI of 25,800 miles. You have to jack to change the filter ANYWAY. So rather than add oil, I just elect to change out @ 20,000, which is the oil filter change recommendation and keeps me from adding a 1/4 to 1/2 qt of oil and jacking it up once again @ 25,800 miles .

This one is an automatic transmission. I also use the Honda specification ATF. It was changed out close to the oem recommendation of 120,000 miles (118,000 miles) Past the Z1 specification, I have no ideal whether it is conventional or synthetic. Almost every piece of research seems to recommend staying with the oem specification fluid, even as I know that Redline makes an ATF (synthetic) for Honda automatic transmissions.

hpmctorque

Your OCI schedule sounds reasonbable to me with Mobil1, especially since I know from reading some of your messages on this subject that you're very objective and knowledgeable about it.

My wife and I are the original owners of a '99 Acura TL with 129,000 miles, and we also use Mobil 1, 5W-30 (Honda started recommending 20 as the top number in a later model year). I change it every 7,500 miles (the manufacturer's recommendation), even with synthetic, because most of our drives are between 2 1/2 and 8 miles, with occasional 40 mile round trip runs. I also change the oil filter every 7,500. We live in Maryland, where we get winter weather and fairly hot summers, but not the extremes of either. Do you think I could safely extend the OCIs, and, if so, to what mileage?

I also use Honda's ATF.

We also have a '07 Audi A4 Quattro 2.0T automatic, '02 VW Jetta 2.0 manual, and a Nissan 300 ZX (naturally aspirated) manual in our family fleet, but I'll get to those another time.

ruking1

As applied to your question, I'd say a minimum of 10,000 miles OCI. If it were mine, I'd go to 15,000 miles (a minimum). There is a whole logic on the UBIQUITOUS 5w30 specification and particularly Mobil One's offering, but might not be on topic for this thread.

In light of the thread, "Can Honda Get Its' MOJO Back,"I have to tell you, I do have a renewed appreciation. The technician was almost unbelieving in servicing the Honda Civic. He said several times the car looked and felt like it had less than 20,000 miles on it (knowing it had app 118,000 miles). For me, the REAL acid test was when he removed the valve cover (to do a valve check and adjustment). He pretty much just shook his head. I was a bit concerned when he did that, so I asked if he had concerns. He just sort of muttered, WOW, its absolutely spotless. So in that sense for the generation that I have, it really has not LOST it.

isellhondas

I suppose things could change but right now, a five year old Korean or GM cars bomb at the auctions. Nobody seems to want them.

As used cars, although they are thousands of dollars less than Hondas or Toyotas they just seem to sit even though they can be great buys.

ruking1

To me that is really the "acid test": high to BEST resale values AND at ALL levels?? !!! :shades: But I am sure if one is TOTALLY up on GM's, Korean offerings (etc, not to leave anybody out), these types of things present buying and selling opportunities.

Also one really should be concerned about the logistical supply system (Honda oem replacement and aftermarket parts). It is almost mind numbing how many vendors offer Honda (specifically CIVIC's) replacement parts.

isellhondas

Used Hondas bring crazy money.

At the auctions if a nice one go's through, the bidders can't look at their "books" or they won't be the winner.

tlong

When is it due out?

nippononly

April, I think?

Of course, the earthquake may now have delayed that.

ruking1

I am not sure why that would be as Civic's are designed (LA LA Land) and bulit in US/CN? I think the list of Honda products coming from Japan; of which they will probably be delayed to in short supply, is pretty short and do not include the Accord/Civic.

berri

I think a lot of vehicles, not just Japanese models, may have some impact because Japan is a major supplier of chips and is dominant in some segments.

ruking1

Right now, it seems like a NON event.

berri

Yeah, there have been some production line slow downs, an occasional stoppage and some delivery restrictions like colors. The supply chain is fairly flexible, so I'd expect some here and there short term issues, but overall nothing dire. I guess my biggest concern would be getting a vehicle with more China crap in it instead of Japanese or domestic parts.

berri

PS - I think the big industry concern is certain engine management chips and controls.

stever

Here's hoping the manufacturing doesn't get hampered by the earthquake.

"For American Honda Motor Co. Inc., March produced 133,650 sales, an 18.9-percent gain over last year. The subcompact Fit improved sales by 43.4 percent to nearly 7,000 units and the Civic, soon to be replaced by an all-new 2012 model, pushed 31,213 units out the door in March, a 33.8-percent gain. Sales for the CR-V compact crossover improved by 42.7 percent to 21,998 units and even sales for the slow-moving Insight hybrid gained by 62.2 percent."

March Sales Bloom, Renew Industry Optimism (AutoObserver)

tlong

...seems to indicate that Honda's mojo is not coming back. I actually like its looks, but no new innovations, and the interior is a step backwards. Perhaps not a FAIL, but Hyundai and Ford continue to advance, not Honda.

Sandman6472

Will be interesting to see who sells the most vehicles though...this oughta be a fun race!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

anythngbutgm

New York 2011: Honda Civic Hybrid scores 44 mpg across the board

nippononly

Does the Insight get the new hybrid powertrain at the same time, or will it soldier on at 40/43/41?

anythngbutgm

Not sure, but they'll need to do something otherwise the Insight will be completely obsolete to those who don't need a hatchback with their ride.

Only 2 scenarios, yes or can it!

nippononly

Well don't forget the Insight is some $6000 cheaper at MSRP than the Civic Hybrid. In fact it's like $4000 less than a Prius at sticker, too, but Toyota always has better promo deals and discounts on the base model Prius.

anythngbutgm

"
Honda stays ahead of compact pack with 2012 Civic

From The Detroit News: http://detnews.com/article/20110423/OPINION03/104230361/Honda-stays-ahead-of-com- pact-pack-with-2012-Civic#ixzz1Kjnl3daJ"

stever

"Honda's $545-million profit was far below the average of analyst estimates compiled by Bloomberg News that put Honda's profit at 93.8 billion yen; the actual number was 44.5 billion yen. For the 2011 fiscal year ended March 31, net income almost doubled to 534 billion yen, while sales gained 4 percent, Honda reported."

Honda Profits Plunge (AutoObserver)

tlong

I guess Hyundai is taking a bite out of those profits!

stever

They would like to but they about maxed out and were already having trouble meeting demand before the earthquake. The dealers are taking advantage by raising prices, although they are now selling more cheap, fuel efficient models than the Genesis thanks to the high gas prices.

Hyundai Takes Advantage Of Supply Debacle (AutoObserver)

cannon3

Honda has slipped a bit, but it does have its reputation. However, with other brands such as Hyundai, Ford, Kia, Subaru and even GM coming out with some great products, Honda will have to be very innovative in the coming years. The new Civic doesn't look that great. With the new Focus and Elantra its styling is frumpy. Mazda is also coming out with a new 3 that is supposed to be a new benchmark. My guess in the next 2 years the number one sub compact will be the Chevy Cruze, next up will be the Civic and Focus in a battle for second. Toyota and its Corolla will fade until Toyota gets off its laurels and decides to compete.

tlong

I can't see the Cruze getting #1, although it will do well. The Civic will also do well, as it has Honda's still good reputation. I think the Elantra and Focus will really add competition to this segment.

stever

"Honda got clobbered in May, hurt by weakened supply and rising prices, particularly on its high-volume Civic (top) and Accord models. Edmunds.com forecasts Honda will have it worst May for unit sales – 83,300 vehicles sold – since May, 1997, and its worst market share – 7.6 percent – since June, 2005. Honda is predicted to fall behind Chrysler, which it had surpassed during Chrysler’s Chapter 11 bankruptcy, and Honda will barely stay ahead of Nissan. Honda’s market share, which includes the Honda and Acura brands, likely fell more than three percentage points from April to May to 7.6 percent, from 10.8 percent."

12.2 Million SAAR Seen for May; Honda Clobbered (AutoObserver)

nippononly

The 2012 Civic redesign is the biggest disappointment since the Accord redesign of '08. So let's see, 2 of the 3 volume models have not been improved (and some would say worsened significantly) in the last 10 years, leaving only the CRV to carry the Honda torch. Who knows what Honda will do to that one next.

Meanwhile the Insight has flopped, the Civic Hybrid is a hard sell even with $4 gas, and the Element has been cancelled entirely. The new sporty car, CRZ, has very little mojo compared to the fun Hondas of the past.

I would say the mojo is so far gone at Honda, they don't even remember what it looked like. And that's a great shame, and it seems to have happened very quickly until you stop and really think about the changes in the last few years. Around 2000 Toyota got serious about copying GM, and not too long after that Honda got serious about copying Toyota. Both have suffered for it.

stickguy

I have 2 hondas and an Acura, and when it is time to replace one of the H's(the A is my sons car) we may not even bother to stop at Honda dealer. The CRV is the only thing I would have any interest in.

I do like the MDX, but that is too expensive at this point.

just not anything that is even vaguely interesting.

tlong

Meanwhile the Insight has flopped, the Civic Hybrid is a hard sell even with $4 gas, and the Element has been cancelled entirely. The new sporty car, CRZ, has very little mojo compared to the fun Hondas of the past.

...and over at Acura, the TL is a visual disaster vs. the previous ('04-'08?) model, the TSX is bigger and bloated, the RDX is expensive and coarse, there is no more NSX, and the RL languishes. I think that just about sums up Honda's failures.

My '92 Accord EX was nicer inside and drove better than today's Hondas. My, what 19 years will get you.... BACKWARD PROGRESS. :surprise:

hpmctorque

I generally share your feelings about Honda and Acura. I would cut the Honda brand some slack, however, because, (1) the Fit has been successful; (2) I think the jury is still out on the new Civic; (3) Honda - and Acura too - still feature top notch quality and reliability. With those qualifications, I'd agree that Honda has lost most of the mojo it enjoyed for many years.

nippononly

I think the jury is still out on the new Civic

It is? It got a tackier interior and no substantial improvements except fuel economy, and even with the new higher EPA figures it is still not at the head of the compact pack.

This might have been an even more disappointing update than the '08 Accord.