2013 Dodge Dart

hpmctorque

Will it/does it live up to the excellent reputation of the '60s and '70s Valiants and Darts?

dodgeman07

Remains to be seen but as a Caliber replacement, it looks like a winner.

I hope the Belvidere Assembly plant puts out a strong product. Years of Neons, Compasses, and Calibers have not helped their image. The Dart should be a major improvement.

iluvmysephia1

will be put on a similar chassis as the Alfa Romeo Giulietta, so there's good automotive "genes" involved immediately with the car. Bodes well for it's success.

rayainsw

One of the very interesting things [ to me ] about this new Dodge is the fuel tank capacity - giving [ assuming 35 - 40 mpg highway is actually attainable ] range. with a gallon or so 'in reserve', of 500 to nearly 600 miles...
- Ray
Had a tank that size in a couple of 1970s Volvos - that did NOT manage nearly those MPG...

standepuy

This is the oldest CR that I have and it shows the frequency of repair for the Dodge Dart 6 and 8 for years of 72 to 76 ( the 8 had insufficient data for 76).
I had a 63 DD slant 6 convertible I bought used in 1970 and it's front suspension was noisy. I spent most of my time taking the paint down to bare metal and having it repainted. It was a good looking model BUT I always thought it would have looked better if the track was wider.
The Dart had many black circles for suspension, trans(manual), clutch, body integrity, and brakes. I remember one odd problem with the clutch to trans arm that broke. I could start it in gear and it would take off. With careful shifting (no clutch) I got to where I wanted to have it fixed. Sold it to my nephew who loaned it to a friend who while driving it stopped too quickly in front of a truck loaded with tires that couldn't stop in time and it was totaled.
Those cars didn't get very good mileage. (pre fuel injection years)

stickguy

at the car show.

when are they supposed to actually hit the showroom?

iluvmysephia1

what'd'ya think of the 2013 Dodge Dart? Looks really good in the pics, especially the red one with the sport tires and wheels. The interior even looks intriguing to me and I'm not an interior guy-at all!


2013 Dodge Dart

This would be the one I'm talking about right here with the red paint and fancy wheel getup. Not bad. Love a test-drive of one.

backy

I saw one (black) yesterday at the Greater Twin Cities Auto Show. It was gorgeous! It might get me to change my plan to get a hatch when I buy my next car next year. Depends on how it drives, fuel economy, passenger room etc.

I priced out the Dart at dodge.com. I discovered in order to get even a modicum of equipment, I'd need to get the SXT trim--the SE looks really basic, even AC is extra. For an SXT with the 2.0L 160 hp base engine, 6MT, and the $700 package that adds cruise plus some other goodies like audio controls on the wheel and trip computer, MSRP is $19,900--not sure if that includes destination charge but it wasn't itemized. That puts it in the ballpark with the likes of the Mazda3i Touring and Golf 4-door, which are tops on my shopping list as of now. Those will be tough cars for the Dart to beat. One plus is the SXT is available in Redline Red Pearl with a tan interior, which I prefer. The Mazda3i Touring hatch isn't available in red. That Header Orange color looks fun too--would be easy to find in a parking lot!

Here's what the red SXT looks like:

backy

I just read a first-drive report on the Dart in C/D (June). They were very impressed and predicted the car would shake up the compact class... although the car is mid-sized in interior volume. They especially praised its handling and brakes.

They reported the car would hit dealers in June with a few of the trims and powertrains, including the 2.0L base engine and the 1.4L turbo with 6-speed transmissions. Other trims and the 2.4L engine will come later.

All the photos I've seen of the car including those in the C/D article have a neon red band around the instrument cluster. I really hope that isn't standard, at least not in the SXT trim. I think it looks tacky.

dodgeman07

The widest interior of any "compact", that grabs my attention. Shoulder room greater than my Lacrosse! The new Dart has nearly full-size width and that is a big selling point to North American consumers. I heard Dodge is calling it "Compact U.S. Wide" which has not been associated with this class in past.

Anyway, the car looks like a winner. I hope to drive one this summer!

stickguy

I'm looking forward to it.

Hmm, a wider compact? Chrysler owns the rights to AMC, so maybe they should dust off the "It's small, but wide!" ad campaign from the last one, the Pacer?

backy

Somehow I don't think Chrysler wants the Dart to be associated in any way with the Pacer.

Although as teenager I thought the Pacer looked kinda cool--spaceship-like almost. Now I realize there's a difference between "cool" and "weird".

Mr_Shiftright

The Dart is literally an Italian car in disguise. You can even order it with the Fiat Abarth turbo motor. Most of the road tests I've read have been reasonably complimentary but not glowing with praise. I would think the 2.4L motor would be the best choice overall. The Dart is entering an extremely competitive niche so it's not going to be an easy success.

backy

The C/D article pointed out how Dodge didn't ruin the Italian underpinnings.

I dunno, though, in these days of $4 gas the 1.4L turbo or even the base engine might be a better bet than the 2.4L. Unless you need that "rush of power". There's supposed to be a later-availability "40 mpg" variant. I wonder what powertrain that will have?

I think 160 hp with the 6 speed stick will be plenty quick for me. My wife's Sonata has 162 hp with a 4 speed slushbox and it's got enough pep. I don't drag-race as much as I used to.

stickguy

I would be fine with the 2.0 or 1.4t, especially with a stick, but probably fine with an AT also.

dodgeman07

One of the numerous reviews posted online this week said the 41mpg hwy variant would have the 1.4L Multiair Turbo engine.

I also found it interesting that the only slushbox available with the Multiair turbo was the 6-sp dual dry clutch and it wasn't avaiable for preliminary road tests. I realize early "First Drives" don't always provide accurate information though.

One thing is clear though, this car will have the roomiest front seats of any compact on the market. Shoulder room greater than the 2011 Buick Lucerne! That's a wide-body!

Mr_Shiftright

Well of course you should test drive the various motors--I got the feeling from one review at any rate that at highway speeds the small engine is very "busy"--that could get on one's nerves. I had a brand new Scion with a 1.5L and it was a great car all around but man that engine was very noisy at 70 mph.

backy

Yes, that concerns me about the 1.4L. But with a 6-speed tranny, the revs should be pretty low on the 2.0L at moderate highway speeds. I rarely go over 70 mph, as I have to get out of town before even hitting a speed limit that high, and that's as high as it goes in the Midwest.

For example, the revs on the 2.0L Mazda Skyactiv with the 6MT are only about 2000 RPM @ 65 mph. On my 2.0 Sentra with CVT, it's 2000 @ 70 mph. But with a 1.4L... we'll have to see.

Mr_Shiftright

also small turbo motors can be "peaky" and some drivers don't care for that. (what I mean is, you have to keep the engine "on cam" or the torque will fall off rapidly).

dodgeman07

That is no longer the case. Modern turbo engines produce abundant torque at low RPMs. They are not "peaky" nor do they need to be kept "on cam" at high RPMs to produce good power/torque.

Take a look at the offerings from Ford, VW/Audi, BMW, and now Fiat/Dodge. Modern turbo engines are world's apart from the old-style versions of the 1980's and 1990's that did require high RPMs to get decent performance.

Mr_Shiftright

I'm just repeating what some of the reviews said. (quote on one about the Fiat Abarth motor: "picking up steam north of 4000 rpm and revving strongly to redline."

Since torque is related to displacement, not the # of cylinders, low rpm = not much boost = not much torque. The BMW, Audi, etc are bigger engines, not 1.4L.

But yeah, turbo motors are a lot better and boost comes on smoother and earlier than in years past--that's a good point.

Also, I haven't even driven the damn car, so I'm only speculating. More to come when I get a test ride!

My MINI is a relatively modern blown motor and it's a dead duck below 2500 rpm BTW, and it's faster than the Fiat Abarth.

Some people say there IS a substitute for cubic inches, and that substitute is forced induction, and I agree----to a point.

I'd say "north of 4000 rpm" is a bit peaky----no, or am I being picky?

backy

No, I don't think you're being picky. I can't remember the last time I had one of my cars (2.0L, 2.4L) north of 4000 RPM. Maybe one day several months ago when I was racing my daughter to the ER. I don't put the pedal to the metal like I did when I was... uh... much younger.

hpmctorque

Will the Chevy Cruze and Sonic 1.4 turbo last as long as the naturally aspirated 1.8? Same question could be applied to the 1.4 T vs. the NA 2.0 in the Dart, ot the !.6 T vs. the NA 2.5 in the '13 Fusion. Maybe with synthetic oil they'll both easily go over 200,000 or more miles, in which case it wouldn't matter. Or, maybe not. Does anyone here know whether sufficiently greater strength is designed into these small turbo motors to compensate for the additional stress?

Also, how do the maintenance schedules compare?

stickguy

for me, the 2.0 sounds like the best option for a long term relationship.

Mr_Shiftright

I think turbo motors have a harder life in general, yes. They are often given some special internal components, sure, but not necessarily what one might term "re-inforcement".

With turbos you're often operating at higher heat ranges, and one presumes (one hopes) that most drivers have the pedal to the metal--or in the case of european engines, their boot in the boschware.

dodgeman07

10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranties are the norm these days and the engines are bench-tested and proven to last far beyond that. Most of these turbos operate at low boost pressure also, there is not that much additional stress on the engine unless unless run at high RPMs for extended periods of time.

Small displacement gasoline-powered turbo engines appear to be the wave of the future and with good reason. You can get good performance and good fuel economy - usually not at the same time though!

dodgeman07

...is up on youtube. Very nice report (starts at 1:15 of the video ) and is worth 4 minutes of your time.

Link to MT Review

Mr_Shiftright

Odd review--nothing of real substance in it that you couldn't just read about. Why did they bother to drive it? Well I guess it wasn't aimed at gearheads.

I did laugh at the comment that with a 160HP turbo engine "your kids couldn't get into too much trouble". Oh, yeah? Really?

Now that I don't know any more about the car than before I watched the video, i guess I'm gonna have go find one and post my own review :P

hpmctorque

If you post your review, we'll be sure to read it.

dodgeman07

You'll be waiting a couple months. They won't be on dealer lots until around the 4th of July. In the meantime, there are several reviews up on youtube.

Mr_Shiftright

I know a Chrysler dealer so I'll keep my eye on it. I kinda like reviews that show what the car is to drive in everyday use, and to really amplify the good parts and show the unacceptable. I think I'll like the car though, especially the turbo.

And I promise, no BAD car review music!

dodgeman07

...today in Belvidere. Looks pretty good! Short article from the Detroit Free Press at the link.



Detroit Free Press

backy

First one was red--a good sign!

One thing about the Dart that doesn't appeal to me is how wide the car is. It's 2-3 inches wider than a typical compact. I know that will appeal to many buyers. But I like small cars because they're... small. As in, easy to park. And the width of parking spaces seems to be shrinking over time. Sometimes it's a squeeze even for my Sentra, and that car isn't that wide.

dodgeman07

Next time I drive by the Belvidere plant I'll be looking for that red one out front! Yep, it is wide and that should a huge selling point for those downsizing from larger vehicles. It is a full 2" wider than the new VW Jetta which is one of the larger vehicles in the class. No more rubbing shoulders in the front seats just because you buy a compact.

backy

That's just the thing... I'm nowhere close to rubbing shoulders with the front passenger. If the extra width is put to good use in back, that would be a plus. I can't think of a compact where 3 adults can be comfortable in back. Not many mid-sized cars, either.

stickguy

a couple of different reviews showed up in my local papers over the weekend. Very positive overall. Can't wait to get one out for a test drive.

Mr_Shiftright

Chrysler is doing very well these days.

dodgeman07

I like the extra width because I wear a 44" jacket and XXL shirt size. With a large person next to me, elbow room is minimal in most compacts. This new Dodge will offer something other compacts don't - extra width.

I found a couple rear seat images on the web and the width is evident in the photos. Middle rear seat passenger space is always tight unless you're in a full-size vehicle and even some of them are cozy.

The compact class is the U.S. market is now loaded with nice cars. A big plus for the American consumer.

robtroxel

I have been looking at the Buick Verano and waiting for the Acura ILX. The Dart has my attention due to the room factor and the supension lifted from Italy. Anyone seen these at the dealer yet? I hate that the Verano has a cheap beam rear axle instead of an independant suspension. The pricing on the ILX looks way to high but we'll see how it would lease out.

dodgeman07

robtroxel: The new Dart is not expected to hit dealerships until late June/early July.

The Acura ILX is a nice looking car but does seem pricey. Fuel economy numbers are good though. The Verano is a bit of a disappointment in the mileage rating department. If I buy a small car, I'll be looking for better than 25mpg combined. Now a Verano Turbo with a 6-speed stick as a sports sedan would be a different story!

dodgeman07

The Dart configurator is up and running at KBB now.

Dart on KBB

mitchflorida

Air Conditioning is not available on the base model, according to KBB.

dodgeman07

A/C is available on the base (SE) model under "Accessory Equipment Packages": Value Group [AAN] for $995. It includes Air Conditioning, Alarm System, Automatic Power Door Locks, Keyless Remote Control Entry System & Dual Power Mirrors.

It's 90 degrees in northern Iowa today and you'll need it!

backy

I don't understand why any car maker in this day and age would even attempt to sell a compact (or borderline mid-size in this case) car w/o AC. Even in cooler locales in the USA (and, where are those now, with weather trending hotter?) it's an important safety feature for defogging. For example, for 2013 Hyundai finally saw the light and made AC plus several other features standard on the base Elantra--since no one was buying the stripped cars anyway.

Most likely there will be around 0 of these SEs w/o the Accessory Equipment Package made, and it's just a gimmick to be able to advertise a low price.

dodgeman07

There's little doubt that marketing plays a role here. Being able to advertise a $15,995 starting price will bring some people in for a look. The $995 Value Group Package actually offers a lot for the money and you can bet 99% of the SE models will have it.

I'm old enough (born in '64) to remember the days when many cars didn't have A/C. The second car I ever owned was a '79 Honda Civic 2-door with a 4-speed stick and no A/C. It even had a manual choke! I drove it from '82 to '87 when a tie-rod and a few body panels had rusted through. I even drove it to Key West, FL in the summer of '85. Funny how times change.

backy

Yeah, my first 4 cars didn't have AC. Didn't get a car with AC until I moved from Minnesnowta to Houston in '82, and bought a new Celica with AC. I would not live in TX w/o AC. I could live w/o it in MN (came back) if I absolutely had to, but there's those few times a year when it's hot and I'm dressed up for work etc. and the AC is important. Also for defogging as I mentioned.

Anyway, the most one of those non-AC cars cost me was $5000, for a new '80 Corolla. I expect a $16,000 car to have AC.

dodgeman07

A Left Lane News report says shipments from the Belvidere, Illinois assembly plant started last Friday!

Left Lane News

Other reports indicate they will be on dealer lots and available for purchase the week of June 17th.

backy

I read a first drive review of the Dart in Automobile Magazine today. A short review but they seemed very impressed with the car. From what they said about the smoothness and quietness of the 2.0L vs. the 1.4, I think the 2.0 is definitely the way I'd go even if the 1.4 has a higher EPA FE rating. They loved the 6MT, which is good as that would be my choice of transmission.

The article mentioned a couple of things about the car's heritage. We know that there's a big Alfa influence. But what I didn't know is that there's a lot of Hyundai in the powertrains. The 2.0L engine is based on the GEMA "World Engine" jointly developed with Hyundai and Mitsubishi. And the 6-speed automatic, highly praised in the review and used with the 2.0L engine (maybe the 2.4L also, I don't know), is sourced from Hyundai.

Another example of why people looking for an "American" car will have a hard time finding one!

Kirstie_H

A reporter is interested in talking to any car shoppers who are thinking about buying any one of the following small cars: Chevy Cruze, Ford Focus, Hyundai Elantra, Honda Civic or Dodge Dart. Please send a brief description of your shopping experience and your preferred contact information to PR@edmunds.com by Monday, June 18th

backy

I signed up on the Dodge web site to receive "special updates" from Dodge on the Dart. Today I received an impressive looking, plastic-wrapped package. It was a cardboard enclosure that held a little booklet with pictures and a few bits of general info on the Dart. Not very special. And very wasteful packaging.

By now my local dealer should have some Darts in, maybe I'll go check it out tomorrow.

robtroxel

We are going to take look at the Dart too. If any of you get a lease price let me know. We want one loaded with leather and Nav. Looking at 36 months,15 K yearly . I'll update when we get numbers. Thius should tell us what Dodge is forcasting residuals at.