A Mechanic's Life - Tales From Under the Hood

Mr_Shiftright

How about when your easy-out breaks in the same place?

isellhondas

How did you know that's what happened?

There is nothing "easy" about using an easy out especially when the bolt is broken off at an angle and you can't get a drill bit to dig in!

Mr_Shiftright

It's all about the tools. You needed a right angle drill! Yours for $99 at Home Depot. Or was that $149?

This becomes almost a theological question: "What type of easy out can drill out an easy out?"

Nothing an acetylene torch can't deal with!


"Hello, Headquarters? This is Captain Shiftright. I have new coordinates for your heaviest artillery!"

isellhondas

Have you ever broken off a tap? That's REALLY a fun thing to do!

qbrozen

I think I've broken just about everything at this point. Tools, nuts, bolts, screws, you name it. Although... I can't seem to remember ever breaking a black 3/4" impact drive socket. Why can't everything be made like those?

isellhondas

Maybe if you had used an impact gun instead of a ratchet you would have broken it.

Believe me after my 20 years in the tool business, I've seen EVERYTHING get broken!

It was always the fault of the tool though, doncha know?

Mr_Shiftright

I once had the US Postal Service break an 8-drawer toolbox. It arrived actually crushed. Do you know how much force it takes to destroy a MAC toolbox of that size?

isellhondas

We had a lot of freight damage with our MAC boxes even though we were constantly modifying the way we packed them. I don't think I ever saw one that was totally crushed.

I may have known the guy who sold it to you.

I once saw the aftermath of a brand new Snap On Mega Box that got bumped by a car into an alignment pit! The drawers were open so you can imagine. The guy who did it was it's proud new owner!

thecardoc3

Mr_Shiftright said:

This becomes almost a theological question: "What type of easy out can drill out an easy out?"

https://baddogtools.com/Bad-Dog-Drill-Bits.html

Watch the whole video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKdKC4KGKEE

Taps and "easy" outs burn out just fine in cast iron, but that doesn't work in aluminum. These drill bits do work.

qbrozen

isellhondas said:

Maybe if you had used an impact gun instead of a ratchet you would have broken it.

nah. I have a 4-foot pipe in my garage that I've had to use on a couple of occasions to crank off a seized bolt. That puts way more torque on it than any common air gun can muster. I've also used those sockets to pound out pressed wheel bearings. I should ask my dad if he's ever managed to bust one. I'd guess probably yes since he works on the big rigs.

Mr_Shiftright

True about torque but the impact vibration can sometimes loosen up binding rust easier.

Patience is often the key to nut-busting. A 4-foot lever is not patient

isellhondas

I once broke off the end of a breaker bar trying to get a 46 MM axle nut off of an old VW bus.

Set me on by rear at the same time. Ouch!

Mr_Shiftright

I used to have this mantra that I would never let a car defeat me--even if I had to park it and try again later, or ask every mechanic I knew, or buy 5 books. But one time, my friend's BMW 7 series got flooded, and got to the junction boxes under the seats and various other modules. Everything was coated in a rusty muck----and i realized I was in over my head on that one. I did get it to start but never run right or register on the dash properly.

ray80

Mr_Shiftright said:

Patience is often the key to nut-busting.

Very true

Does anyone else find it really annoying after three days and two nights of fussing with liquid wrench, this tool,that tool and then having the thing free up in about 1/10 of a second and being able to remove with just finger pressure as soon as it does?

Mr_Shiftright

We used to have a saying in the MG Club -- if it was meant to stay on, it will fall off, and if it was meant to take off, it will stay on.

For motorcycles, I used to tease my Harley friends with "The Harley Company Motto" -- "if it breaks, make it bigger; if it sticks out too far, chrome it".

In addition to Murphy's law, I had another personal DIYer's motto: "Disassembly occurs at 8 times the rate of reassembly".

stever

Another trick is to try to tighten the nut a smidge before trying to loosen it. That one works pretty good on old rusty screws in woodwork too.

ray80

stever said:

Another trick is to try to tighten the nut a smidge before trying to loosen it.

Yes, it does work sometimes, of course there is another possibility

Mr_Shiftright

I would never try that on say a manifold nut or a head bolt. I might on a suspension part, though.

isellhondas

An "old timer" once taught me to lightly tap on a bolt head with a small hammer before trying to loosen them. The tapping can break the corrosion. I know that works well on water pumps that are bolted to aluminum housings.

Rusted exhaust manifold bolts can be NASTY!

thecardoc3

"

isellhondas said:

An "old timer" once taught me to lightly tap on a bolt head with a small hammer before trying to loosen them. The tapping can break the corrosion. I know that works well on water pumps that are bolted to aluminum housings.

Rusted exhaust manifold bolts can be NASTY!

Rule #1. Don't even touch an exhaust bolt without proper use of the torch to heat it first. (alternate method is inductive heating) By heating and removing in the first attempt breakage is all but eliminated.
2. There are tools that allow us to use the air hammer while a fastener is being turned when heating is inappropriate. Bleeder screws are an example. By vibrating the caliper with a hammer head the screw comes loose easily.

stever

This is good (thanks@ruking1).

"By streaming data from sensors in the car up into Chevy's cloud, GM says it'll be able to proactively detect when certain parts of the car are prone to failure using "proprietary algorithms," which means you could potentially get the car into a dealership before you have a real problem out on the road. Right now, there are only three parts covered under the system — the battery, the starter motor, and the fuel pump — but more parts are expected to be added into the program in future vehicles."

New Chevrolet cars will predict when their parts are going to fail (theverge.com)

roadburner

"Hello Mr. Chevy owner- yes I know your starter is working fine, but HAL 9000 tells us it's about to fail. Aren't you fortunate we know that?"

Mr_Shiftright

"Start my Malibu Hal"

"I'm sorry Dave. I can't let you do that".

roadburner

Some of you may recall that back in December 2013 my son's 158,500 mile 2004 X3 was throwing the "low catalyst efficiency" code. I used a product called Cataclean according to its directions. Late last fall my son reported that the car was throwing an intermittent CEL while he was driving it in Columbia SC where he attends college. While he has bee home for Christmas break the car has behaved fine, but I decided to let my dealer take a look today just to be safe. It turns out the CEL was for cylinder misfires. A couple of coils were the culprits- but with the truck having now accumulated 169,000 miles I authorized replacing all six.

The ECU has not stored any further catalyst efficiency faults since the Cataclean treatment over 12 months and 10,000 miles ago.

roadburner

I had told my service advisor at the BMW dealer about Cataclean when I first tried it and I have kept him updated on the success of the "snake oil". When I spoke with him today he told me that they have since used Cataclean in several cars and it has worked more often than not.

So I'd have to say it would be worth a try...

thecardoc3

http://www.wiley.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0471768650.html

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2458795#Post2458795

The MSDS of Cataclean.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http://apkgroup.com/msds/English/CAC%20-%20Cataclean%20Chemicals/120007%2805-01-2010%29.pdf&ei=kp2uVPztConnsATT84CoCA&usg=AFQjCNHYH_vQeXlx7f-Y7xm0WeCFGhBHBg&sig2=bQITHpi83NZOvqNAMvOpPg&bvm=bv.83134100,d.cWc

roadburner

You mean it didn't work? I guess it just tricked those gullible downstream O2 sensors. And not just on my car, but several others!
Boy, do I feel silly...

The Bob is the Oil Guy link is quite helpful however, I'm sure several folks will find the last post in the thread to be a lifesaver!!!

Mr_Shiftright

Cataclean Reviews on Amazon -- The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly.

stever

Liked the Amazon Q&A with these links:

http://www.asrcreviews.org/2014/03/nad-recommends-accel-discontinue-challenged-claims-for-cataclean-fuel-additive/

http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2006/7/Best-Direct/TF_ADJ_41571.aspx#.U6mDhrE1Ocw

roadburner

Thanks to cardo3 for the link to the Bob

Mr_Shiftright said:

Cataclean Reviews on Amazon -- The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly.

Here's the thing; I'm not saying Cataclean works 100% of the time- or even 50% of the time. I'm not on commission. All I know is that I used it according to the directions in my X3 and for over 10,000 miles the car has not thrown a single catalyst efficiency code. Prior to that there were multiple catalyst efficiency faults stored in the ECU. And my friend at the dealer reported success in a majority of cases. That said, I can see why some shops would hate to be denied the opportunity to charge their customer for a big ticket repair. So I have a few questions:

Does anyone have any experience with a car that threw multiple catalyst efficiency codes that suddenly "cured" itself?

How did that happen?

As I understand it, catalyst efficiency only has to be down 5% to trigger that fault, so I perhaps the effectiveness of Cataclean depends in large part on how degraded the cats are.to begin with.

stever

You need a control, like using laquer thinner instead. (Acetone is in that stuff too).

Try a gallon in the Wrangler. Rinse and repeat.

thecardoc3

Here is part 1 of just one paper on catalysts. This one happens to be one of the easier reads (for those with a sufficient math background)

There are hundreds of papers like this one has to read to fully understand exactly what a catalyst does and how a catalyst ages.

http://www.academia.edu/2712048/On-board_diagnosis_of_SI_engine_catalyst_efficiency_a_confidence_level_analysis

thecardoc3

As far as the people using the anti-foulers to delay the down stream sensor's response (the locus length of the signal) they adhere to the myth that the only reason the downstream sensor is there is for testing the catalyst. The reality is that is only part of its responsibilities. The downstream sensor has more control over the engines air/fuel ratio than the upstream sensor does and that fact usually this doesn't reveal itself until something goes wrong.

Mr_Shiftright

This is interesting. The discussion reminds me of the debates I have with friends about health supplements. They feel "bad" so they take substance X (Peruvian mushroom extract??) and they feel "better".

If I say--but there's no evidence that mushrooms cure the flu, they say "But I feel better. It worked!"

I can't say if it worked or not because, as Steve said, there are no controls on the experiment.

Maybe the catalytic was revived by the juice, or maybe the additive just cleaned up a spark plug, or maybe the car just fixed itself (it happens). I recently watched a YouTube video where a guy's engine is running rough, and not able to pass smog---so then he adds the Cataclean, drives 75 miles and suddenly his engine runs smoother and he passes smog.

Well, what really happened here?

If the CEL came on a few hundred miles after the smog test, I'd be inclined to give credit to the additive. The fact that the CEL never came on again makes me wonder about the additive as the cause.

roadburner

thecardoc3 said:

Here is part 1 of just one paper on catalysts. This one happens to be one of the easier reads (for those with a sufficient math background)

There are hundreds of papers like this one has to read to fully understand exactly what a catalyst does and how a catalyst ages.

http://www.academia.edu/2712048/On-board_diagnosis_of_SI_engine_catalyst_efficiency_a_confidence_level_analysis

I stand humbly corrected. The lack of new catalyst error codes is obviously just a placebo effect...

roadburner

thecardoc3 said:

As far as the people using the anti-foulers to delay the down stream sensor's response (the locus length of the signal) they adhere to the myth that the only reason the downstream sensor is there is for testing the catalyst. The reality is that is only part of its responsibilities. The downstream sensor has more control over the engines air/fuel ratio than the upstream sensor does and that fact usually this doesn't reveal itself until something goes wrong.

Well, if it's such a bad idea, I would suggest not providing links to said advice.

I KNEW you'd bite on that one...

roadburner

Mr_Shiftright said:

This is interesting. The discussion reminds me of the debates I have with friends about health supplements. They feel "bad" so they take substance X (Peruvian mushroom extract??) and they feel "better".

If I say--but there's no evidence that mushrooms cure the flu, they say "But I feel better. It worked!"

I can't say if it worked or not because, as Steve said, there are no controls on the experiment.

Maybe the catalytic was revived by the juice, or maybe the additive just cleaned up a spark plug, or maybe the car just fixed itself (it happens). I recently watched a YouTube video where a guy's engine is running rough, and not able to pass smog---so then he adds the Cataclean, drives 75 miles and suddenly his engine runs smoother and he passes smog.

Well, what really happened here?

If the CEL came on a few hundred miles after the smog test, I'd be inclined to give credit to the additive. The fact that the CEL never came on again makes me wonder about the additive as the cause.

The problem with the health supplements analogy is that "feeling better" is 100% subjective. In the case of the X3 I may not have had a control sample, but there was an objective difference before and after using the Cataclean. If it "cleaned up a spark plug" the fouled plug should have set a misfire code earlier- just like the bad coils did just recently. And again, those documented misfires did not cause a catalyst efficiency fault. Then there is the anecdotal evidince from my BMW Service Advisor that the product HAS worked in other cases.

I don't know why I bothered bringing this up, I should have just paid a "professional technician" to R&R the cats. I'd be $1,800 poorer, but at least the "Professional Technician" would be having a prosperous new year.

roadburner

On a more positive(and still 2004 X3 related) note. The X3's starter died last fall while my son was at school in Columbia, SC. I checked with some of my CCA friends in the area and they recommended one indie shop in particular. The car car was towed there and the next morning I called the shop at 8:30 to give them a heads-up. They thanked me and called back less than 30 minutes later confirming it was a bad starter. By 1:15 PM the truck was ready to go with a Bosch remanufactured starter and a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty on the repair. Best of all, they gave the truck a complimentary inspection and found nothing else needing attention- which reinforced my already positive opinion of their competence and honesty.

stever

The problem with the health supplements analogy is that "feeling better" is 100% subjective. In the case of the X3 I may not have had a control sample, but there was an objective difference before and after using the Cataclean.

I like the analogy because bodies are "chemical factories" and there's all sorts of weird stuff that happen with bodies when various chemicals (foods, or drugs...) get ingested. And it's never quite the same for one person as it is for another (in spite of trials).

Your cat's chemistry may have been thirsty for a shot of acetone. But mine may just ignore the fumes. (hm, maybe for the search engines I'd should spell out catalytic).

Or maybe you hit a bump just right driving over to get the codes rechecked.

I'm not so convinced about Techron anymore either. That really gets back to the seat of your pants testing.

Can't wait till I get an EV so I can complain that it's sluggish running coal power but really zooms when the electricity comes from my windmill.

roadburner

stever said:

I'm not so convinced about Techron anymore either. That really gets back to the seat of your pants testing.

BMW likes it well enough that they give the customer a bottle after the completion of their induction system cleaning and tell him/her to add it to the tank at the next fill-up. And yes, I realize that doesn't apply to DI cars.

stever

BMW probably figures it's a safer placebo to give their picky owners to mollify them so they won't go buying something that's going to trash their cats.

This would actually be a good seat of the pants place to test Techron if I still had my Quest. It usually got Chevron during the Boise decade and a bottle once or twice a year in the UP. No Chevron here, and I'm buying a lot of cheap gas (usually Murphy). But no Quest either anymore. It's on sale at Advance btw for like half price.

roadburner

Here is the BMW Fuel Injection and Induction System Cleaning TSB.

stever

Wow, a bottle every 3,000 miles? That's worse than DEF.

It took me years to wean my wife off HEET - she thought that cured any car hiccup back in the pre-ethanol days. Now with E-10 everywhere, she actually won that argument.

roadburner

Well, I've recommended Techron dozens of times for issues like a rough idle and hesitation and have yet to have someone tell me it didn't work.
One H3LL of a placebo...

stever

It's the only car additive I've ever recommended to anyone. Nowadays I think Top Tier has lessened the need for it. But I only have my pants to go by.

This has been fun. Got any Dexos stories?

isellhondas

roadburner said:

On a more positive(and still 2004 X3 related) note. The X3's starter died last fall while my son was at school in Columbia, SC. I checked with some of my CCA friends in the area and they recommended one indie shop in particular. The car car was towed there and the next morning I called the shop at 8:30 to give them a heads-up. They thanked me and called back less than 30 minutes later confirming it was a bad starter. By 1:15 PM the truck was ready to go with a Bosch remanufactured starter and a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty on the repair. Best of all, they gave the truck a complimentary inspection and found nothing else needing attention- which reinforced my already positive opinion of their competence and honesty.

Wait a minute.....you had a shop inspect a BMW and they actually found "nothing else needed attention"?

Guinness World Records.....are you listening?

roadburner

My local dealer is the same way. When I had the X3 in for service a couple of years ago I mentioned to my advisor that the 4X4 fault light had come on once. He checked it and said, "The light triggered because the system detected a fault in the steering angle sensor- but only one fault is stored. No point in replacing it now- it could be just a glitch. If the light keeps coming on we can look at replacing it."

No 4X4 light since- but I'm certain some dealers and shops would have told me "YOUR STEERING ANGLE SENSOR IS GOING BAD!!! IF YOU DON'T FIX IT IMMEDIATELY YOU COULD DIE!!!

Mr_Shiftright

That's funny you mention that. My steering angle sensor code is a temporary resident at each oil service an has been for the last 65,000 miles until turned off each time.

I had my MINI cat go bad but unfortunately nothing in a can could fix it, as it just fell to pieces internally. Were it not for creative thinking, I would have been skunked for $1800 bucks.

I have to say, I hope BMW has upped their quality control for the MINI over the last 10 years, because it has been disgraceful on the early cars.

thecardoc3

roadburner said:

thecardoc3 said:

As far as the people using the anti-foulers to delay the down stream sensor's response (the locus length of the signal) they adhere to the myth that the only reason the downstream sensor is there is for testing the catalyst. The reality is that is only part of its responsibilities. The downstream sensor has more control over the engines air/fuel ratio than the upstream sensor does and that fact usually this doesn't reveal itself until something goes wrong.

Well, if it's such a bad idea, I would suggest not providing links to said advice.

I KNEW you'd bite on that one...

Yea, whatever. I don't see a reason to throw out an entire thread because if one idiotic (not to mention illegal) response. Using anti-foulers and relocating the sensors out of the exhaust stream is considered tampering by the EPA. Not surprised that you appear to support that activity though, not surprised at all.

roadburner

I'm SO ashamed...