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So it's not really AWD, it's more of an auto-engaging 4wd.
-mike
Paul
-mike
-mike
- Up to 50% sent to rear tires during slippage; can be split differently between rear wheels.
- Up to 50% sent to rear tires during acceleration.
- Up to 50% sent to rear when the "lock" button is engaged AND the vehicle is under 18mph and in 1st, 2nd, or reverse gears. Percentage drops at speeds approaching 18mph.
- Front wheels always split power evenly.
- Front wheels always split power evenly.
It's quite the contrary. The front axle/diff will send 100% of it's power to the wheel with the LEAST traction. This is the same as the front of all SUVs sold in the US (except for G-wagen, hummer and possibly one or 2 others costing well over $60K)
Essentially the front diffy is an "open" diffy which routes power via the path of least resistance. For those FWD drivers out there, make a hard right turn from a stop(like a stopsign) and push the gas as hard as possible. What will happen is your right front tire will spinn when you punch it. For RWD drivers if you don't have a limited slip rear differential, your right rear would spin in the same situation. This is the same differential motion of the front axle on the VTM4 enabled vehicles.
-mike
Too likely to yank the steering wheel right out of some soccer Mom's, or Dad's hands.
But yes, that is probably the reason for no front LSD/Locker/traction control devices on the front wheels. Some vehicles with front LSDs...
Sentra Spec V has a front LSD
Hmm off the top of my head can't think of any others.
-mike
Today's dealers would go broke if everyone read the recommended scheduled maintenance routines.
-mike
Most of us are from the days when operating an automobile was simple and basically intuitive. 4WDs were left to Alaska and avid hunters. Nowadays suddenly everyone has one, all with different operating charactoristics and operating methods/modes.
Twenty years ago, while so of us actually did, there was really no need to read the owners manual. Today I almost think the dealers should be required to hold classes for buyers before turning them loose on the rest of us.
How many people do you know who learned to drive in RWD vehicles and now drive FWD vehicles and have no idea of the differing dynamics when arriving on the "edge" in low traction conditions?
-mike
My primary point is that insurance companies are counter-modivated, the regulations allow them to make more money, in absolute dollars, the higher the accident rate is.
If we turned that around and said we'll allow you a higher percentage of profits if you pitch in and help reduce the accident rates then I suspect we would have insurance companies jumping all over themselves to fund the developement of driving simulators.
Most people only learn how to react, or not, in a dangerous situation as it occurs, and in many cases that's a tad too late.
A competent hardware/software house would be the right place for such development and they would be motivated only if the market would reward them appropriately.
Bottom line is that simulators would be of use only to one class of people - drivers! Use your velvet glove to get them into driver's ed classes.
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
But If I were shopping for a "true" offroader, I'd definitely put it in the mix here's what I'd look at in that range:
4-runner
Rodeo
Rodeo Sport
Grand Vitara
X-terra
Liberty
Wrangler
-mike
Is the line up you give in order of best to next best or is it just a list?
Thanks
$50K new stock offroad... Hmmm... I'd like to say the G-wagen, except it's like 77K. I'd probably go with the Rubicon or Trooper or TLC. If I went with the Rubicon, the leftover would have to pay for the inevitible repair bills on it.
Overall my favorite stock offroad vehicles of all time:
FZJ80 (with front locker)
Rubicon
G-wagen
Last gen Montero
Trooper
Samuri
4-runner
No particular order on that.
-mike
If I have to abide by your restrictions though, I'd probably stick with a new TLC. They ain't built like they used to be though!
-mike
Bone stock, I'd pick a Wrangler. Why waste the money when you're going to scratch the paint anyway? Plus spare and replacement parts are cheap and abundant, and off roading you will eventually break something.
-juice
good 4x4 list, but... grand vitara? hmmm....
Anybody else out there want to get in on this. I'm hoping to get this topic going again. It appeared to be dead there for a while.
Paisan, no mention of either version of the Hummer in your overall list. That's curious. Do you believe that they're overrated?
Kind of the opposite of most small displacement VTEC engines. ;-)
I 2nd the thought of the H2 being too wide for some trails. I've been on some Jeep trips where the roads were eroding and you could barely get by. It was so narrow you had to fold your mirrors. An H2 could not make that narrow pass.
-juice
The original Hummer and the H2 are over 50K IIRC. Also the original Hummer is pretty wide for trails.
-mike
tidester
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SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
Steve
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SUVs, Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards
tidester
Host
SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
-mike
A buddy of mine had a CJ-3 back in the day. That thing went through the woods with ease. That was back when you could blaze your own trails and not feel guilty.
Comments about H1's width also had me wondering how the military drives over "jeep" trails. Also reminds me of passages in _Blackhawk Down_ where the width is credited for righting HMMWV's as they drove through obstacles.
Enter the H2. It gives the rich folk the tough image, but gives them creature comforts of a luxo car. The one owner I was able to talk to about his H2 looked at me like I was nutz when I invited him to come to the Pine Barrens with us for some light offroading. So I asked him if he bought it for the image, and he admitted "I didn't buy it for offroading, it's for the image" I said to hime "wow that's pretty sad that you have to buy it for the image"
-mike
-mike
-juice
I am new at this website. I'm considering to purchase a Lexus RX 300 but still being confused between 2 wheeldrive and 4 wheeldrive .I want to ask you as experts to help out: as I all know, we have two options for RX300: 2 wheeldrive or Fulltime 4 wheeldrive. Fulltime 4 wheeldrive is the same thing as AWD, has the meant ability to drive in the city all four wheels with no threat of driveline damage. When not off road, in normal driving, in downtown...it actually runs with 2WD mode, and only until slippering is sensed, it automatic switches to 4WD . Am I right at this point? For people almost do not go offroad, should they spend about 2 thousand dollars more to buy a 4WD to have both options? Beside for off road, is 4WD really worth over 2WD? I appreciate your time and thank for advices.
It should be effective in eliminating torque steer vs. the FWD model, and give you more neutral handling, better traction on snow and rain, etc.
The regular FWD models get traction control, too, so if you don't get too much snow, and didn't notice any torque steer with FWD, that might be a better choice for your wants.
-juice
Specifically, I'm trying to figure out which wheels are powered under what circumstances, in which systems. So far I think it goes like this: SELECT TRAK, which I have:
- Part Time: both axles locked; 50-50 power to each; all 4 wheels powered regardless of spin;
- 2 Wheel: 100% to one rear wheel.
- Full Time: 48% power to front axle, one wheel only (right one?); 52% to rear, one wheel only (right one?), unless equipped with optional limited slip diff. "Varilok", which would switch power to the non-spinning rear wheel. So without Varilok, if both front and back powered wheels (right side) are spinning, the other wheels get no power. With rear Varilok (can't get front Varilok in Select Trak) option, you'd get 50% power to one rear wheel.
QUADRTRAK II:
- Part time: same
- Full Time: 100% power to one rear wheel, until it slips, then 100% to front (one?) wheel, unless also have Varilok rear axle. If true, this would not seem to be as good as Select Trak's Full Time mode.
QUADADRIVE:
Part Time: same
Full Time: 25% to each wheel, with power of spinning wheel transferring to non-spinning wheels. Although this seems to be the best for traction, one dealer told me they don't order QuadaDrive anymore since powering all 4 wheels all the time has produced "problems". ??
Please correct any misconceptions I may have on how these systems work. If you've already answered this in some post, please refer me to the #. Also, I know QuadaDrive had some early problems -- but how about 01s and 02s? I'm trying to decide which system to get. Thanks, Jack
I believe selec-trac and quadra-trac II are identical in full-time operation and only differ in that the selec-trac gives you the option to operate in 2wd, full-time, or part-time. The quadra-trac is a full-time only system.
Part-time:
Power is split 50/50. Open-diffs on the front actually sends power to whichever tire has the LEAST traction just like any other open-diff system built. So technically, that 50% only goes to one wheel. If you have a vari-lok on the rear, then 50% would go to one front wheel, and the rear will split the power 25% to each rear wheel if slippage occurs. So you have the potential to power three wheels instead of two if you have the vari-lok option on the rear.
Selec-trac and quadra-trac full-time modes:
100% power to rear until slippage occurs and then it can transfer 50% to the front, of which one wheel will get the power. The front still has an "open" differential, just like the part-time system. This system is very similar to a traditional part-time system, except the transaxle doesn't send power to the front unless slippage occurs. Basically, it's an improvement over the part-time system only because you can run the system on dry pavement. With the vari-lock option on the rear, it does the same thing as on the part-time system
Quadra-drive: This system has a vari-lok on the front and rear. Power will go 50/50 to one wheel on each axle until slippage occurs, then it will split 25/25 on each axle. As long as one tire has traction, you're set.
The only question I don't know off the top of my head is if the Quadra-drive constantly delivers 50/50 power or if it delivers 100% to rear and then sends the power if slippage occurs. I believe it always runs 50/50 which is partly why I think people complain about this system. It's alot of extra drivetrain components running constantly and things can get noisey.
The biggest complaint I've seen/heard is with the quadra-drive "whining". I've known a couple people with '99 quadra-drives and they did make some whining noises at times but they never had any problems with them. There was also some "clunk" or "bump" type complaints on the systems. One was really bad and there was a replacement axle to help. Others are lighter bumps and I've owned several 4X4's with automatic transmissions (two of which were Toyotas, one cherokee) that did the same thing from day one. Couldn't see where it hurt anything and none ever had anything beyond the occassional thump/bump or whine.
I personally like the selec-trac system just because it gives you the option to run 2wd, full-time, or part-time. I find for typical bad weather (and I drive some very deep snow) along with off-roading, a part-time system with some sort of locking/limited slip rear axle will do the trick just fine. The conditions that demand a front locked axle just aren't that common unless you plan to heavily off-road the thing.
The full-time mode on the selec and quadra-trac systems only adds the ability to have the 4x4 "standing by" on dry roads. Full-time is great for certain conditions, but I'd much rather run 2wd when it's dry. The advantages of the quadra-drive is not worth giving up the ability to run 2wd to ME, but someone that never leaves the pavement may not want to think about it. That makes the quadra-trak II a dud in my book because you can't put it in 2wd and it has no advantage over running selec-trac in the full-time mode. Plus you have the part-time option which has advantages in certain circumstances also.
I'm not guaranteeing this data, but it's got to be closer than what many salesmen know about it. When I was shopping around back in July, most all limiteds/overlands were quadra-drive which meant I had to order or search the country for a limited with selec-trac.
To Sebring95's points - I too rather be in RWD and select when to go into any other drive mode. But seeing how we are turning into a brainless society, the majority favor the AWD flavor.
They then wonder why they are up to their rear axles in sand because the AWD was too slow to transfer power to the front, why they can't get up a gravel track because the traction control told the engine to power down or they expect AWD to save them when they hit a patch of white stuff going 70 mph on an interstate. (some examples I ran across in Town Hall) (sorry for the rant)
- Even in Part-time, without varilok, if the one front and one rear powered wheels spin, you're stuck. Not what I expected.
- Contrary to dealer info, Selectrak Full-time doesn't have any power to the front, unless the one powered back wheel slips.
I currently have Select Trak and I also run in 2 wheel mode on dry pavement. However, I saw a post somewhere saying that's not as "safe" as running full time mode. -- presumably in an emergency swerve some front power might help -- but if there's no power to the front without rear slipage, that doesn't make sense either.
Looking at the Jeep catalog, Select Trak is not available on a V-8 Limited. But Kelly Blue Book (kbb.com) shows it available. Does anyone know?
Are there any objective surveys out there concerning problems with the newer QuadaDrive systems?
Just wondering if there is safety system involved to disengage the locking system to avoid having it locked for cornering & etc..
zaad